Joe Horn Murderer or Neighbor of the Year?

[Nbadan]

Is it worth shooting someone for stuff? Most people would have a hard time killing a person, but obviously Mr. Horn isn't one of them....


_7jqLie6-Y0

[Oh, Gee!!]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100331

[Nbadan]

Yeah, I've seen that thread, but now that we've had time to digest this story, I want rational thoughts not hot-headed reactionaries from some of 'the element' that hides in the club...

....and I haven't seen one person in that thread mention the case of John White...


Cfu_8yCGysA

John White gets jail time while Horn walks....is there a double standard in America?

[MannyIsGod]

Dan wants his own thread. How cute.

[xrayzebra]

Dan wants his own thread. How cute.

Yeah, about normal for Dan. He has that "pick me",
"pick me" syndrome. He reminds of an immature brat.

[xrayzebra]

Dan a person has the right to shoot anyone messing with his or his neighbors property. The sooner some of the slugs learn this, the sooner they will realize that "crime" really doesn't pay when you are six feet under.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

Yeah, about normal for Dan. He has that "pick me",
"pick me" syndrome. He reminds of an immature brat.

You just described yourself perfectly. Think before you make yourself look like an idiot.

[xrayzebra]

You just described yourself perfectly. Think before you make yourself look like an idiot.

Ah, you hurt my feelings. You are smooth and well spoken. Obama fan are you?

[Nbadan]

Common now, Horn put himself into a situation that he didn't have to put himself into while John White was put into a situation where he felt his families safety was threatened...big difference.....

[Nbadan]

The Hero and the killer....


9f7wNRKaOV0

[DarrinS]

If they are wearing a "Loose Change" t-shirt, then fire when ready.

[DarrinS]

Nbadan. Since you want to race bait, it's interesting how the Joe Horn case got so much press, but the murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom did not.

Here's the snopes article in case you think it's a hoax.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/newsom.asp

[Nbadan]

Nbadan. Since you want to race bait, it's interesting how the Joe Horn case got so much press, but the murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom did not.

Here's the snopes article in case you think it's a hoax.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/newsom.asp

The Snoopes article you posted does a good enough job proving you wrong...

However, the notion that every major news outlet in the U.S. (all of them competitive, profit-making businesses) has conspired to ignore what would otherwise be a compelling national story is rather implausible. A more rational explanation might be found in the sober observation that murders — even decidedly horrific murders — are unfortunately too frequent an occurrence in the U.S. for all of them to garner national attention. The cases that do tend to attract prolonged, nationwide coverage are ones exhibiting a combination of factors (e.g., scandal, mystery, sexual elements, celebrity involvement, shockingly large numbers of deaths, victims who especially elicit sympathy) that make them particularly fascinating and compelling to the public at large, such as the still-unsolved murder of 6-year-old beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey, the mysterious disappearance (and death) of pregnant Laci Peterson, the massacre of 32 students and faculty at Virginia Tech, and the celebrity trial to determine whether actress Lana Clarkson committed suicide or was killed by reclusive record producer Phil Spector.

[Nbadan]

...and is this a racial issue or a illegal immigration issue....watching wing-nut news I'm having trouble determining which is was....


Clm1OJl2D1Y

[Nbadan]

The Joe Horn rap....


TI0JhHTWcPU

[xrayzebra]

...and is this a racial issue or a illegal immigration issue....watching wing-nut news I'm having trouble determining which is was....


Clm1OJl2D1Y



Race issue? I don't think so. He observed them climbing out of his neighbor's window. I don't think he ask them if they were in the country legally or not, do you.

Or, are you saying they looked Hispanic so they were fair game as far as he was concerned. But really it doesn't make much difference. Case was presented to a Grand Jury, of which we have idea it's makeup, and they no billed him. Enough said.
Your opinion is just that, your opinion.

[George Gervin's Afro]

He shot them running away. most civil people will acknowledge that you shouldn't shoot someone in the back while most conservatives think it's cool..

So he shot them to prove a point? he wasn't in danger nor were the guys carrying anything (meaning the owners would not have lost any property) so he shoots them.. He'll get his mark my words..

[johnsmith]

He'll get his mark my words..

:lmao:lmao:lmao

[JoeChalupa]

The dude got carried away. I can see both sides. I'm all for fighting crime but his life was not in any danger.

[DarrinS]

This happened Nov of last year.


I guess Nbadan has no more 911 conspiracy drivel to talk about.

[Phil E.Buster]

This happened Nov of last year.


I guess Nbadan has no more 911 conspiracy drivel to talk about.

WTF does that have to do with anything? :bang

[peewee's lovechild]

...and is this a racial issue or a illegal immigration issue....


Neither.

It's an issue of two fuckwads robbing a house and getting killed for doing so.

[DarrinS]

The Snoopes article you posted does a good enough job proving you wrong...



No it didn't.


Had Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom been black and their torturers/rapists/murderers been white, that story would have made national headlines.

And their only crime was going out to dinner together. They weren't in the middle of burglarizing a home.


P.S. Nbadan. If you put "[youtube]" tags around a quote, it won't show up.

[Nbadan]

Had Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom been black and their torturers/rapists/murderers been white, that story would have made national headlines.

Really? So a black man has never been murdered by a white man without it making national headlines?

[DarrinS]

Really? So a black man has never been murdered by a white man without it making national headlines?


I didn't say that.


I merely pointed out that a case where a white homeowner shot and killed two illegal Columbians who were burglarizing a neighbors house made national headlines, while a case were a white couple was carjacked by 4 black men, who later shot the male 3 times, wrapped him in sheets, and set his body on fire and gang raped the girl (in every way imaginable) and then cleaned her mouth out with bleach and left her to die slowly in a trash can, did not make national headlines.

[Wild Cobra]

Common now, Horn put himself into a situation that he didn't have to put himself into while John White was put into a situation where he felt his families safety was threatened...big difference.....

Different state, different law.

Besides, White couldn't keep hjis story strait.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Just heard snippets of Horn's interview. When asked if it was justified to shoot two burglars who were robbing your neighbor's home. He responded that he didn't shoot them because they were burglars, he shot them because he was in fear for his life...:rolleyes

they were shot in the back? Throw in the fact that he was clearly warned by the 9/11 dispatcher not to do it...

[Wild Cobra]

Just heard snippets of Horn's interview. When asked if it was justified to shoot two burglars who were robbing your neighbor's home. He responded that he didn't shoot them because they were burglars, he shot them because he was in fear for his life...:rolleyes

they were shot in the back? Throw in the fact that he was clearly warned by the 9/11 dispatcher not to do it...

You know, full context of the situation is important. They may have said they would come back for him. They were running from the scene with arms full of stolen goods. He may not be in the right if they dropped it all, but they were fleeing with stolen goods.

Again, laws are different in different states. I wish all states allowed such immediate actions to be taken. This is a useful deterrent against thieves. Such justice taken by citizens didn't used to be questioned in the past. It's about time we return to some of those proven good 'ol day items.

As far as I care, someone in the act of a crime loses their protections from any action required to stop such actions.

Thieves beware. I will not think twice to kill you if you take from me.

[Anti.Hero]

How many videos did the losers out there make about the gun carrying raiders in Chocolate City during katrina?

but lets blast Mr. Horn lmao


He's a free man bitches!!!11

[BRHornet45]

he is a great man sons. we need more people like him to clean up the streets.

[Nbadan]

he is a great man sons. we need more people like him to clean up the streets.

Unfortunately, It maybe the streets that has the final say to people like Horn. Did he invite trouble?

[sabar]

Shooting people in the back is cowardly, especially for something as insignificant as theft.

Property =/= Life

Of course, society doesn't value life anymore, so it's not surprising. People are expendable. And death isn't a deterrent to low-life scum. They have nothing to live for anyways.

Anyways, this is a very materialistic and sensitive society. People shoot each other over insults or honking their horn, why not theft? Maybe software piracy can be ended with some vigilante justice.

I don't have a problem with self-defense with probable cause, but Horn was an idiot with a trigger finger. If you think your family is in mortal danger or you see a thug pull a knife, then by all means fire. But Horn just did it to "get some stuff back". He's just as soul-less as the people he killed.

[1369]

he wasn't in danger nor were the guys carrying anything (meaning the owners would not have lost any property) so he shoots them.. He'll get his mark my words..

I don't have the particulars in front of me, but I thought one of the men had a crowbar in hand when approaching him (Horn) and when found they also had a sack containing $2K in cash and jewelry. Plus, what about the testimony of the plain clothed police officer that witnessed the shooting and said Horn was within his rights?

[George Gervin's Afro]

I don't have the particulars in front of me, but I thought one of the men had a crowbar in hand when approaching him (Horn) and when found they also had a sack containing $2K in cash and jewelry. Plus, what about the testimony of the plain clothed police officer that witnessed the shooting and said Horn was within his rights?

my problem is both these guys were shot in the back... As far as the law is concerned texas is unique in that you can now shoot someone in the dark regardless if you feel threatened our not.. Horn said " I feared for my life".. the get out of jail free card of comments.. Cops shooting unarmed suspects (rightly or wrongly) justify shootings all of the time by claiming the same as horn did... Only in texas.. how embarassing. I hope this state is never represented in the White House during my lifetime..

[1369]

my problem is both these guys were shot in the back... As far as the law is concerned texas is unique in that you can now shoot someone in the dark regardless if you feel threatened our not.. Horn said " I feared for my life".. the get out of jail free card of comments.. Cops shooting unarmed suspects (rightly or wrongly) justify shootings all of the time by claiming the same as horn did... Only in texas.. how embarassing. I hope this state is never represented in the White House during my lifetime..

From the reporting I have read, they were in his yard, they made a move towards him, he raised his shotgun, they tried to get away and Horn was quicker. They were hit in the side and the back trying to flee a robbery.

Do I think he went looking for a fight? Sure, but in the eyes of the law he was justified in the shooting.

[peewee's lovechild]

Unfortunately, It maybe the streets that has the final say to people like Horn. Did he invite trouble?

We'll see what happens if they go to his home.

[Ignignokt]

Joe Horn should be behind bars.

[George Gervin's Afro]

From the reporting I have read, they were in his yard, they made a move towards him, he raised his shotgun, they tried to get away and Horn was quicker. They were hit in the side and the back trying to flee a robbery.

Do I think he went looking for a fight? Sure, but in the eyes of the law he was justified in the shooting.

Dispatcher: Mr Horn , do not go out of the house.
Horn: I'm sorry. This ain't right buddy
Dispatcher: You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with that gun. I don't care what you think. Stay in the house.
Horn: You wanna make a bet? I'm gonna kill'em..


Autopsy results:
Ortiz
Entry wounds: busckshot in the back of both shoulders and elswhere on the left side of his back

Torres
Busckshot in the left lateral chest and posterolateral torso, left posterier arm and other areas...

[bobbybob0]

Dispatcher: Mr Horn , do not go out of the house.
Horn: I'm sorry. This ain't right buddy
Dispatcher: You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with that gun. I don't care what you think. Stay in the house.
Horn: You wanna make a bet? I'm gonna kill'em..


Autopsy results:
Ortiz
Entry wounds: busckshot in the back of both shoulders and elswhere on the left side of his back

Torres
Busckshot in the left lateral chest and posterolateral torso, left posterier arm and other areas...

Maybe they were running backward in his direction?

[BradLohaus]

You can disagree with his decision to shoot them, but prison? Yikes.

[peewee's lovechild]

Joe Horn should be behind bars.

I'm all for it, if you put the two dead guys' corpses in jail for their crime as well.

[DarrinS]

Joe Horn is a pretty decent wide receiver.

[ElNono]

Can we call him 'Murderer of the Year' and be done with it?

[Sec24Row7]

Don't rob houses and you have less chance of getting shot... problem solved.

They fucking deserved it.

[jochhejaam]

I've never owned or fired a gun, but if I had one and observed someone robbing my neighbor, I believe I would confront them with gun in hand.
Too close to home to ignore.



And to the poster sabar, who labeled Horn as "soulless"; that implies that Horn did not have a conscience. The fact that he cared enough about his neighbor to call 911, or was outraged by thievery, are reasons enough render your reasoning as being faulty and without merit.
<A good argument can also be made that your labeling of the thieves as soulless is at the very least, presumptive>

[Wild Cobra]

Don't rob houses and you have less chance of getting shot... problem solved.

They fucking deserved it.

Absolutely. But then I'm one that believes all first degree crimes against other individuals should have the possibility of the death penalty. This is the ulimate way to stop repeat offenders.

[Nbadan]

Can we call him 'Murderer of the Year' and be done with it?

:lol

[Nbadan]

We'll see what happens if they go to his home.

I hope your right....may Horn live a long and happy life knowing that he murde...errr.....killed to men for $2K worth of stuff that wasn't even his....

[George Gervin's Afro]

Don't rob houses and you have less chance of getting shot... problem solved.

They fucking deserved it.

cool now property = life...:rolleyes

[Sec24Row7]

cool now property = life...:rolleyes

Umm... where have you been for the last 60,000 years?

You miss the whole Homo Sapien bandwagon?

[Wild Cobra]

Can we call him 'Murderer of the Year' and be done with it?
I'll go along with Vigilante, but not murderer.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1820028,00.html



Looking Kindly on Vigilante Justice

By Nathan Thornburgh

The 911 tape offered up a few clues that Joe Horn had every intention of killing the men who were breaking into the house next door. For example, there was that time, six minutes into the phone call, when he told the dispatcher, "I'm gonna kill 'em."

And "kill 'em" he did, stepping outside his house to shoot the men with three shotgun blasts in the back as they retreated across his lawn with a bag of stolen goods from next door. In today's overheated debate about gun rights, this marksmanship made Horn, 62, a hero to many. When a small group came out to his home in Pasadena, Texas, to protest the killings, they were shouted down and run off by a far larger group of bikers and residents yelling "U.S.A.! U.S.A.!" as if they were on the set of The Jerry Springer Show. Grand juries in Texas are sealed affairs, so no one really knows what goes on in their deliberations. But on Monday, a Harris County grand jury refused to indict Horn for any crimes related to the November 2007 shooting. It's the kind of decision that makes you wonder if the jurors themselves were chanting "U.S.A.! U.S.A.!" during deliberations. The decision was celebrated by Horn's defenders, of course. More than anything, though, it was called a victory for the Castle Doctrine.

The Castle Doctrine is a right-to-defend-yourself law that has been sweeping the country: about half the states have some version of the law, most passed within the past three years. Texas passed its version last fall. It is popular in part because it's a hybrid of two simple and deeply American concepts: your home is your castle, and you have a right to defend yourself and your property. The laws have different details and sometimes different names from place to place (some states go for a more macho name — Stand Your Ground — while others prefer the snarkier Make My Day).

The flavor of the law basically shifts the burden of proving self-defense from the shooter to the state. In places like Mississippi and Texas, the law says that citizens have no duty to retreat from any confrontation anywhere when threatened; milder versions exist in states like Connecticut and Colorado, where they cover confrontations only in homes or businesses. That's the version that will go into effect in Ohio in September. Democratic governor Ted Strickland signed the bill in June, against the wishes of a number of state law-enforcement groups.

In Ohio as elsewhere, cops and prosecutors attack the law as superfluous at best: judges and juries rarely convict people for attacking intruders, and similar statutes have been on the books for decades in many places. Texas, for example, has a lot of other laws that protect homeowners in similar situations, some on the books, some not. As Shannon Edmonds, a lobbyist for the Texas District and County Attorneys Association, put it: "There's an unwritten rule in Texas courthouses: It ain't against the law to kill a son of a bitch." Horn clearly thought the Castle Doctrine applied. He brought it up on the phone with the 911 dispatcher. "The laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it and I know it," he said.

The passage of new Castle Doctrine bills goes over well with voters, politicians and people like Horn because of a wide perception that criminals are still given far too many rights (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1723821,00.html?iid=sphere-inline-sidebar) at the expense of law-abiding (and gun-owning) citizens. As Horn said in his 911 call, he wasn't going to let those robbers get away. For many, the recent Supreme Court decision striking down Washington's gun ban (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1818325,00.html) was seen as a rare respite from a long string of legal attacks on the Second Amendment and the right to bear arms. The Horn decision was hailed as another rare victory.

But whether it was the Castle Doctrine or a prior Texas law that most influenced its decision, the case may be a Pyrrhic victory for gun-rights advocates. As these laws spread across the country, the public will want to know what effect they'll have in their communities. Will they make people more secure? Or will they create some kind of dystopic Deadwood, where the law lands on the side of those who shoot first? The laws are written so vaguely that the answer lies largely in the interpretation. It's up to juries to set appropriate boundaries — hopefully ones that favor precedent, instead of completely rewriting the rulebook on lethal confrontations.

The Castle Doctrine was also invoked in a shooting a month ago 250 miles away from the Horn incident, in Kaufman County, Texas. An elderly man picked up a gun and shot — out his front window — at an "intruder" who turned out to be his 15-year-old neighbor, who was crossing his lawn at night with a friend. The boy survived, but as his friend's mother drove them to the hospital, they were hit by a drunk driver, killing the mother and leaving both boys with even more injuries. The car accident wasn't the old man's fault; the shooting most definitely was. County law-enforcement officials initially declined to press charges, citing the Castle Doctrine. Ultimately, they recommended the case to a grand jury, which did, in fact, indict him.

This all makes for terrible p.r. for Texas as well. The state has long bristled at its gun-nut reputation. Texans would like the world to see them as they see themselves — as responsible gun owners, not itchy-fingered vigilantes. Cases like the Kaufman County shooting don't help.

In late May, I finished a gun-safety course in Nevada in order to get my multistate concealed weapons permit. The instructional component is basically a PowerPoint presentation illustrated with graphic pictures and a video of what can happen to you and your flesh if you mishandle a firearm — something like An Inconvenient Truth for the NRA crowd. What really caught my attention, though, was an off-the-curriculum discussion about when I should use the weapon I would have the right to carry. "Bare fear doesn't justify self-defense," the instructor told me. "Only reasonable fear." This man, a gun dealer whose whole Weltanschauung seemed largely based on his right to defend himself with lethal force if need be, was very clear on the matter: you can't go blasting away at things that go bump in the night.

If the Castle Doctrine were interpreted with the kind of sobriety and restraint espoused by my instructor (and responsible gun owners), it would be a good law. But by celebrating its most overreaching interpretations, those who make a hero out of Joe Horn will ultimately only succeed in ensuring that it isn't.

[DarkReign]

Fuck criminals.

Did they break into the house and steal shit? Yes.
Did they try and flee when accosted? Yes.

2 dead criminals. The world weeps.

[Wild Cobra]

Fuck criminals.

Did they break into the house and steal shit? Yes.
Did they try and flee when accosted? Yes.

2 dead criminals. The world weeps.

I applaud.

The problem is, criminals will break the law and at the same time expect it to protect them. I say no fucking way when they are caught in the act. If they get away, then later caught, then the legal system and the burden of proof is now on the accuser.

Look at what we have. Law enforcement in most places cannot shoot a fleeing suspect. These criminals probaly thought the law would protect them as long as they were running away.

I say they deserve to be dead. I hope more people start killing burglers.

[jochhejaam]

I say they deserve to be dead. I hope more people start killing burglers.

Just curious WC (or DR), do you feel the same way about shoplifters?

[Findog]

The dude's name is Joe Horn? I went to the very last page of the thread, I was like "When did that football player shoot somebody?"

[Nbadan]

Fuck criminals.

Did they break into the house and steal shit? Yes.
Did they try and flee when accosted? Yes.

Did we break Iraq? Yes...
Did we accost million of Iraqis? Yes
Did millions more flee to slums in Iran, Jordan, and other parts of the M.E.? Yes

Are we criminals?

[Wild Cobra]

Just curious WC (or DR), do you feel the same way about shoplifters?

It depends on the maturity of the shoplifter. Kids will be kids. However, a shop lifter is a thief. I have stated this at least twice now. I am for the death penalty imposed against individuals who commit first degree crimes against others.

I am fucking tired of the number of evil people we have in our nation today, and I want to see them permenantly removed from society. If the knowledge the death penalty applies, and they still commit the crime. They deserve to die.

[1369]

Did we break Iraq? Yes...
Did we accost million of Iraqis? Yes
Did millions more flee to slums in Iran, Jordan, and other parts of the M.E.? Yes

Are we criminals?

You really need to consider the Icy Hot patch after that stretch.

[Nbadan]

You really need to consider the Icy Hot patch after that stretch.

I wonder if 1 million dead Iraqis consider this a stretch?

[ElNono]

It depends on the maturity of the shoplifter. Kids will be kids. However, a shop lifter is a thief. I have stated this at least twice now. I am for the death penalty imposed against individuals who commit first degree crimes against others.

I am fucking tired of the number of evil people we have in our nation today, and I want to see them permenantly removed from society. If the knowledge the death penalty applies, and they still commit the crime. They deserve to die.

One thing is to want the death penalty after due process (don't personally agree, but I respect your opinion), and a very different one is to have a person become policeman, judge and executioner all in one.
The problem with cases like these is not these two criminals, who were criminals, and got what they deserved. The problem is when one of these judge dredd's with a shotgun has an extra cup of wine on them, and decides that the two new gardeners are robbers. Or that the two Jehovah witnesses 'menacingly stepped into my property'. We're asking these people to recognize, interpret and execute the law, when they're no policeman, no lawyers and no judges.
A lapse of judgment can ruin a family or more forever. This is really why we evolved from the wild wild west and vigilante justice into a civilized society.

[Spurminator]

It depends on the maturity of the shoplifter. Kids will be kids. However, a shop lifter is a thief. I have stated this at least twice now. I am for the death penalty imposed against individuals who commit first degree crimes against others.

I am fucking tired of the number of evil people we have in our nation today, and I want to see them permenantly removed from society. If the knowledge the death penalty applies, and they still commit the crime. They deserve to die.

Wow, even under Sharia Law they only lose a hand. And you want them dead.

[FromWayDowntown]

Wow, even under Sharia Law they only lose a hand. And you want them dead.

I'm surprised that Wild Cobra isn't supporting the idea of a death penalty for those who might be liberals.

[George Gervin's Afro]

human life = property. I can now teach my son that life really doesn't have much value anymore. In fact a the value of life = my 42 inch flat screen.. Screw the home owners insurance that I have I'm going to blow those b*tches up!

[George Gervin's Afro]

I'm surprised that Wild Cobra isn't supporting the idea of a death penalty for those who might be liberals.

Don't forget WC equates treason to whether a person can actually justify their criticism of Bush.

[IceColdBrewski]

Score one for the good guys.

Can't say I would've shot them in the back, but I definitely woulda put some buckshot in their asses to make sure they'd never consider returning.

[DarkReign]

Just curious WC (or DR), do you feel the same way about shoplifters?

No. Not at all.

Do people live inside WalMart?

Also, do shoplifters have to break-in to get into WalMart?

(you get my point)

[DarkReign]

Did we break Iraq? Yes...
Did we accost million of Iraqis? Yes
Did millions more flee to slums in Iran, Jordan, and other parts of the M.E.? Yes

Are we criminals?

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k19/darkreign24/threadhijack.jpg

[jochhejaam]

No. Not at all.

Do people live inside WalMart?

Also, do shoplifters have to break-in to get into WalMart?

(you get my point)

Sure, I asked because based on your previous post;


Fuck criminals.

Did they break into the house and steal shit? Yes.
Did they try and flee when accosted? Yes.

2 dead criminals. The world weeps.
the difference is minimal, and it certainly didn't require a leap in logic to think that you may have felt the same about shoplifters.

[baseline bum]

I would have probably done the same. If I see some dude running out with a sack of loot from my neighbor's window, I'm guessing they have thousands of dollars worth of his shit. A couple thousand is a lot of money to most people who work for a living. None of that property is coming back unless the burglar is stopped right at the spot. If the cops find him a couple of days later after he's pawned my neighbor's stuff, then my neighbor is fucked. His property is worth way more than the life of someone who would break into a person's house to loot it.

I would give a burglar the chance to freeze and wait for the police, but if he continued with my neighbor's belongings, I'd shoot, and shoot to kill if he's armed.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I would have probably done the same. If I see some dude running out with a sack of loot from my neighbor's window, I'm guessing they have thousands of dollars worth of his shit. A couple thousand is a lot of money to most people who work for a living. None of that property is coming back unless the burglar is stopped right at the spot. If the cops find him a couple of days later after he's pawned my neighbor's stuff, then my neighbor is fucked. His property is worth way more than the life of someone who would break into a person's house to loot it.

I would give a burglar the chance to freeze and wait for the police, but if he continued with my neighbor's belongings, I'd shoot, and shoot to kill.

No you wouldn't, not if it meant you going to prison for murder, which is what should have happened to Horn.

[baseline bum]

No you wouldn't, not if it meant you going to prison for murder, which is what should have happened to Horn.

I meant to write shoot to kill if the guy is armed, and edited my post after you quoted it.

To get back on topic, I absolutely would, and I would shoot to kill if the guy is clearly armed (you never know if he's going to turn around and start shooting at you as he flees). If he's unarmed, I might fire a warning shot if he's in the open.

[MannyIsGod]

I'd buy Joe Horn a beer. Criminals put themselves in a bad position. Sucks for them.

[mookie2001]

I wish some illegal argentinian manu fans would kickdoor on me

[MannyIsGod]

I wish some illegal argentinian manu fans would kickdoor on me

LOL

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I wish some illegal argentinian manu fans would kickdoor on me

yeah, that's right, the Argie Manu mafia is coming for you mookie, better arm yourself to the teeth

[DarkReign]

Sure, I asked because based on your previous post;

the difference is minimal, and it certainly didn't require a leap in logic to think that you may have felt the same about shoplifters.

Fair enough. But no, not the case.

[Fillmoe]

http://whodatdish.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/horn.jpg

[peewee's lovechild]

If you don't want to get killed, don't go robbing people's houses.

[George Gervin's Afro]

If you don't want to get killed, don't go robbing people's houses.

If that's the case let's just make burglary/robbery a capital offense. We can then put to death all burglars and robbers. Oh wait that is a RIDICULOUS notion but hey let's just execute them on the street..:rolleyes Vigilante justice is really cool and is compeletely accepted in our country.

[peewee's lovechild]

If that's the case let's just make burglary/robbery a capital offense. We can then put to death all burglars and robbers. Oh wait that is a RIDICULOUS notion but hey let's just execute them on the street..:rolleyes Vigilante justice is really cool and is compeletely accepted in our country.

No, I'll just defend my own.

If you happen to like the idea of someone coming into your house and raping your loved ones while you crawl into a ball in some corner because your ethics won't allow you to defend what's yours . . . well, more power to you.

[George Gervin's Afro]

No, I'll just defend my own.

If you happen to like the idea of someone coming into your house and raping your loved ones while you crawl into a ball in some corner because your ethics won't allow you to defend what's yours . . . well, more power to you.



Well raping your loved one in your onwn home while you're there is quite different than your neighbors home being burglarized. Nice try.. Are you suggesting burglary and robbery are a capital offense?

[peewee's lovechild]

Are you suggesting burglary and robbery are a capital offense?

Are you defending burglary and robbery?

[peewee's lovechild]

Is that why all this bothers you?

Do you make your living taking from others?

Are you that kind of raza?

[peewee's lovechild]

Shit, I have no sympathy for those that get all shot up doing illegal shit.

That comes with the territory.

If you don't like the idea of getting shot and possibly killed, don't go robbing shit.

[peewee's lovechild]

It really is that simple.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Are you defending burglary and robbery?

No, these folks should go to jail. They shouldn't be shot in the back running away though.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Is that why all this bothers you?

Do you make your living taking from others?

Are you that kind of raza?

Yeah man you got me. I am defending these guys because of their race..:rolleyes I don't support anyone shooting someone in the back when they stole something.

[peewee's lovechild]

No, these folks should go to jail.

So they could spend a couple of days, maybe a couple of hours, and do it all over again.

Smart.

[peewee's lovechild]

Yeah man you got me. I am defending these guys because of their race..:rolleyes I don't support anyone shooting someone in the back when they stole something.

Did you raise your fist in indignation because you were so outraged?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Did you raise your fist in indignation because you were so outraged?

No I just shot the dude because he looked at me wrong. I mean it's a crime to disrespect people nowadays and you have made it clear that killing people is cool.

[George Gervin's Afro]

peewees love child: Son what do you mean that kid took your pen?

peewees love child kid: Yes daddy he took my pen and PENCIL!

peewees love child: I am going to put a cap in his ass! You see son we can now take another person's life because I they took something.

[peewee's lovechild]

No I just shot the dude because he looked at me wrong. I mean it's a crime to disrespect people nowadays and you have made it clear that killing people is cool.

Na, it's only an issue if it's a white on black (or any other color) thing.

[peewee's lovechild]

peewees love child: Son what do you mean that kid took your pen?

peewees love child kid: Yes daddy he took my pen and PENCIL!

peewees love child: I am going to put a cap in his ass! You see son we can now take another person's life because I they took something.

I like how you equate a house robbery to shoplifting and the like.

You're brilliant.

[peewee's lovechild]

I want the government to protect criminals because I need a new TV.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I like how you equate a house robbery to shoplifting and the like.

You're brilliant.

Your kidding right? You actually equated a burglar running a way to someone coming into your house and raping your spouse. And now your dogging me? You lost so get over it. You lost when you couldn't justify making robbery/burglary a capital offense.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Did you like the way I dodged your original point by comparing rape to burglary? I am brilliant.

[Oh, Gee!!]

They shouldn't be shot in the back running away though.

it's the cost of doing business.

[George Gervin's Afro]

it's the cost of doing business.

So then let's make it a capital offense. As a matter of fact let's every crime a capital offense. We can kill them all. Steal a car? You get the death penalty. Embezzle money? Straight to Huntsville..

[peewee's lovechild]

Your kidding right? You actually equated a burglar running a way to someone coming into your house and raping your spouse. And now your dogging me? You lost so get over it. You lost when you couldn't justify making robbery/burglary a capital offense.

Running away only because they saw the dude with a weapon, not because they had a change of heart and decided to leave the life of crime.

Why do I have to agree to make it a capital offense.

In Texas, you have a right to shoot the bastards.

It doesn't have to be made into a capital offense.

[peewee's lovechild]

So then let's make it a capital offense. As a matter of fact let's every crime a capital offense. We can kill them all. Steal a car? You get the death penalty. Embezzle money? Straight to Huntsville..

You're doing it again.

You equate the robbing and burglarizing a home with the use of force to embezzlement?

Seriously.

If this struck a nerve because you have family members that making their living ripping off peoples homes and you worry about them being shot, or if you happen to be one of those that enjoys getting a 70% discount on TVs and such from people that steal them from homes, then you're just part of the problem.

Otherwise, it's not that difficult to understand that if you decide to make a living ripping off peoples shit, you're probably going to get shot. And, you're probably going to die.

[peewee's lovechild]

So, let's use Afro's rationale:

If you see a burglar ripping off a home, go into your house and pretend nothing's happening.

If a burglar comes into your house, offer him a sandwich (and possibly your daughter or wife).

If he runs away from you, wish him a good evening (or good morning, depending on the time of day).

[George Gervin's Afro]

You're doing it again.

You equate the robbing and burglarizing a home with the use of force to embezzlement?

Seriously.

If this struck a nerve because you have family members that making their living ripping off peoples homes and you worry about them being shot, or if you happen to be one of those that enjoys getting a 70% discount on TVs and such from people that steal them from homes, then you're just part of the problem.

Otherwise, it's not that difficult to understand that if you decide to make a living ripping off peoples shit, you're probably going to get shot. And, you're probably going to die.


Or maybe I value human life more than a flat screen TV.

[DarrinS]

This thread lives on?

[George Gervin's Afro]

So, let's use Afro's rationale:

If you see a burglar ripping off a home, go into your house and pretend nothing's happening.

If a burglar comes into your house, offer him a sandwich (and possibly your daughter or wife).

If he runs away from you, wish him a good evening (or good morning, depending on the time of day).

Or call the cops if you see starngers in someone else's home. Another idea could be to write down the plates of the car in the driveway. I know it's a novel concept. These guys never came into Horn's house so I am not sure why you continually try to make it seem that I am ok with people coming into my house. If people were in Horn's house he had every right to shoot them but they weren't in his house.

Why do you keep changing the subject? Horn shot these guys in the back after they were leaving his neighbor's home. No rape, they weren't in his home he simply shot two people in the back as they were running away.

[George Gervin's Afro]

It's very simple. Horn shot two people who were running from him. In fact there was a cop on scene already to apprehend the burglars but Horn shot them anway. Not only that Horn ignored the 911 operator who explicitely told him not to go outside. But good ol boy Horn said " I am going to kill them" before he ever stepped foot outside. Most of the people who are ok with killing two unarmed guys running away don't want to make burglary a captial offense. They don't want the state to execute these guys but are ok with some yahoo shooting people when he didn't have to.

[peewee's lovechild]

Or maybe I value human life more than a flat screen TV.

But, you value buying a stolen TV over buying a TV from a retail store.

[George Gervin's Afro]

But, you value buying a stolen TV over buying a TV from a retail store.

Well it's good that you have finally admitted that human life means less than a TV. Is that what you teach your kids?

[Spurminator]

How about this?

Joe Horn is neither a murderer nor "Neighbor of the Year."

The burglars did not deserve to die but they put themselves in a position to be harmed by breaking into private property.

Joe Horn did not have to kill them but he did not commit a crime by doing so.

I don't understand why he has to be such a polarizing figure.

[peewee's lovechild]

How about this?

Joe Horn is neither a murderer nor "Neighbor of the Year."

The burglars did not deserve to die but they put themselves in a position to be harmed by breaking into private property.

Joe Horn did not have to kill them but he did not commit a crime by doing so.

I don't understand why he has to be such a polarizing figure.

I agree.

[peewee's lovechild]

Well it's good that you have finally admitted that human life means less than a TV. Is that what you teach your kids?

I'll teach my kids that their lives are much valuable than anyonelse's, including mine.

You'll teach your kids that it's okay to commit crimes because our government should protect them while they're commiting said crimes.

Oh, and you'll teach them that buying "hot" items is so much better than going to a retail store.

[Oh, Gee!!]

So then let's make it a capital offense. As a matter of fact let's every crime a capital offense. We can kill them all. Steal a car? You get the death penalty. Embezzle money? Straight to Huntsville..

you're conflating the inherent dangers (such as getting shot in the back by a homeowner or nosy neighbor) of breaking into homes with the government advocating or imposing penalties for said crime.

[baseline bum]

Or maybe I value human life more than a flat screen TV.

If it's my flat screen TV I just dropped 2G on, you're goddamn right I value it more than the life of someone breaking into my house to steal it from me. If it's my next-door neighbor's flat screen that I know he's been saving forever for, then hell yes, I value it more than the life of someone who breaks into his house to steal it. It's not like the average person can just go get another big screen tv the day after his gets stolen.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I'll teach my kids that their lives are much valuable than anyonelse's, including mine.

You'll teach your kids that it's okay to commit crimes because our government should protect them while they're commiting said crimes.

Oh, and you'll teach them that buying "hot" items is so much better than going to a retail store.

No I'll teach my child that taking a human life is not the first option when dealing with someone who is committing a non viloent crime. If they become aware that someone is burglarizing our neighbors home they shouldn't run out and shoot them while they are running away. Especially if they are told not to by the 911 operator. Instead they should call the cops and let them do their jobs.

I am still not sure why yopu are still trying to infer that I don't buy my own things. In my experience people who make up crap like that usually are on the losing end of a debate. FYI I buy my own stuff and have no reason to steal anything. You on the other hand equate life to property. If your child does a beer run and gets shot in the back running away I guess you would have to accept that they 'stole someone else's stuff' and their lives deserved to be forfeited. Nice logic.

[George Gervin's Afro]

If it's my flat screen TV I just dropped 2G on, you're goddamn right I value it more than the life of someone breaking into my house to steal it from me. If it's my next-door neighbor's flat screen that I know he's been saving forever for, then hell yes, I value it more than the life of someone who breaks into his house to steal it. It's not like the average person can just go get another big screen tv the day after his gets stolen.

Still not worth someone else's life. My car's radio has been jacked and I was pissed but not enough to shoot someone in the back running away. My dad's house was robbed of everything a few years back and guess what? They caught the guys and he got everything back. And he didn't have to kill one person!

[peewee's lovechild]

No I'll teach my child that taking a human life is not the first option when dealing with someone who is committing a non viloent crime. If they become aware that someone is burglarizing our neighbors home they shouldn't run out and shoot them while they are running away. Especially if they are told not to by the 911 operator. Instead they should call the cops and let them do their jobs.

I am still not sure why yopu are still trying to infer that I don't buy my own things. In my experience people who make up crap like that usually are on the losing end of a debate. FYI I buy my own stuff and have no reason to steal anything. You on the other hand equate life to property. If your child does a beer run and gets shot in the back running away I guess you would have to accept that they 'stole someone else's stuff' and their lives deserved to be forfeited. Nice logic.

Yea, beer run = robbing a house.

You're brilliant!!!

[peewee's lovechild]

If it's my flat screen TV I just dropped 2G on, you're goddamn right I value it more than the life of someone breaking into my house to steal it from me. If it's my next-door neighbor's flat screen that I know he's been saving forever for, then hell yes, I value it more than the life of someone who breaks into his house to steal it. It's not like the average person can just go get another big screen tv the day after his gets stolen.

Afro is the kind of guy who wants that to happen to he can buy that TV on the cheap from the theifs.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Yea, beer run = robbing a house.

You're brilliant!!!

Your right stealing from a store and a house are 2 different things..:rolleyes

But someone breaking into your house and raping your spouse while your home = two thiefs running away after burglraizing your neighbor's house. :rolleyes

[George Gervin's Afro]

Afro is the kind of guy who wants that to happen to he can buy that TV on the cheap from the theifs.

peewee is the kind of guy who loses debates so he starts to name call.. Is it your wife who gave you the nickname peewee?:lol

[peewee's lovechild]

Your right stealing from a store and a house are 2 different things..:rolleyes

But someone breaking into your house and raping your spouse while your home = two thiefs running away after burglraizing your neighbor's house. :rolleyes

Being ridiculous is par for the course when using your original argument.

[peewee's lovechild]

peewee is the kind of guy who loses debates so he starts to name call.. Is it your wife who gave you the nickname peewee?:lol

No, your mother did.

She's used to bigger, darker men.

But, I had my fun.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Being ridiculous is par for the course when using your original argument.

The one where I specified that it was wrong to shoot 2 guys running from the scene?

Or your response to that question claiming that I would give someone a sandwich if they broke into my home , while I was there, and raped a family member?

My original argumet:rollin

[George Gervin's Afro]

No, your mother did.

She's used to bigger, darker men.

But, I had my fun.

My mom has a place in her heart for men with small peepees peewee..!:lol My mom and your wife call your little manhood peewee..

[peewee's lovechild]

My mom has a place in her heart for men with small peepees peewee..!:lol My mom and your wife call your little manhood peewee..

They are both nice women.

[peewee's lovechild]

The one where I specified that it was wrong to shoot 2 guys running from the scene?

capital punishment for robbing houses?

You were being ridiculous, so the favor was returned.

[George Gervin's Afro]

capital punishment for robbing houses?

You were being ridiculous, so the favor was returned.

You were cool with exacting a citizenry capital punishment yet were dumbfounded when I proposed to let the state do it. You can't have it both ways. According to you it's cool for a neighbor to kill a burglar but not ok for the state to do it.

[Oh, Gee!!]

this thread should be shot in the back by Joe Horn

[peewee's lovechild]

You were cool with exacting a citizenry capital punishment yet were dumbfounded when I proposed to let the state do it. You can't have it both ways. According to you it's cool for a neighbor to kill a burglar but not ok for the state to do it.

Or, you could just stay away from robbing houses and not worry about it.

How does it affect you?

Seriously, is robbing houses your chosen profession?
If it is, then I can see how this issue might keep you up at night.

If it isn't, what the hell are you worried about?

[peewee's lovechild]

this thread should be shot in the back by Joe Horn

You're probably right.

[DarkReign]

Your right stealing from a store and a house are 2 different things..:rolleyes

Does shoplifting require breaking and entering?

Does a family live in said retail store?

When someone forcibly breaks in to a private residence, they are automatically in "I may get shot for this" territory.

They did. Nevermind that they actually stole shit, too. End of story.

[Oh, Gee!!]

You were cool with exacting a citizenry capital punishment yet were dumbfounded when I proposed to let the state do it. You can't have it both ways. According to you it's cool for a neighbor to kill a burglar but not ok for the state to do it.

actually, you can. private citizens can do a lot more than the State can.

[baseline bum]

Still not worth someone else's life. My car's radio has been jacked and I was pissed but not enough to shoot someone in the back running away. My dad's house was robbed of everything a few years back and guess what? They caught the guys and he got everything back. And he didn't have to kill one person!

So if you caught them lifting your stereo, you would have done nothing?

Your dad got lucky to get his stuff back. You get them to freeze or put a slug in 'em and you get your property back every time.

[Nbadan]

Cause if someone gets killed just for stealing my stereo I want it back!

:rolleyes

[DarkReign]

Cause if someone gets killed just for stealing my stereo I want it back!

:rolleyes

You dont hunt, do you? Im guessing GGA doesnt either...

[Nbadan]

You dont hunt, do you? Im guessing GGA doesnt either...

....I'm eating an elk burger now.......

[DarkReign]

....I'm eating an elk burger now.......

Did you kill said elk?

[George Gervin's Afro]

You dont hunt, do you? Im guessing GGA doesnt either...

I have hunted on 3 different occasions in my life. I am planning on applying for a concelaed handgun license but my wife is dead set against having a gun in our home. I am still working on her.

When I do get the gun I will not shoot two guys running away from my neighbors home. If someone enters my home then one of us is going to bleed.

[DarkReign]

I have hunted on 3 different occasions in my life. I am planning on applying for a concelaed handgun license but my wife is dead set against having a gun in our home. I am still working on her.

When I do get the gun I will not shoot two guys running away from my neighbors home. If someone enters my home then one of us is going to bleed.

Fair enough. Its just that you both come across as negligently passive in this thread. But it doesnt seem to be the case.