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sbsquared
02-03-2005, 10:06 AM
Social Security Alternative Already Working in Texas
By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
February 03, 2005

(CNSNews.com) - The personal retirement plan sketched out in President Bush's State of the Union Address has been universally derided by Democrats as an unworkable privatization of the retirement program.

"As we fix Social Security, we also have the responsibility to make the system a better deal for younger workers, and the best way to reach that goal is through voluntary personal retirement accounts," Bush said during the address Wednesday night.

"Here is how the idea works: Right now, a set portion of the money you earn is taken out of your paycheck to pay for the Social Security benefits of today's retirees," Bush explained. "If you're a younger worker, I believe you should be able to set aside part of that money in your own retirement account, so you can build a nest egg for your own future."

President Bush warned the nation that 13 years from now -- in 2018 -- Social Security will start paying out more than it takes in. He also had a message for Americans 55 and older: "Do not let anyone mislead you;" he said: "For you, the Social Security system will not change in any way. For younger workers, the Social Security system has serious problems that will grow worse with time."

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said on Wednesday that all 44 Senate Democrats were united against the president's plan to reform Social Security. Without knowing any details, Reid told reporters, "President Bush should forget about privatizing Social Security," adding, "It will not happen."

But privatized Social Security has been a fact of life for municipal employees in Galveston County, Texas, for nearly a quarter century. Local government workers voted overwhelmingly in 1981 to opt-out of Social Security in favor of a locally controlled system that has since been widely described as a phenomenal success.

Under federal law at the time, municipal workers had the option of not participating in the Social Security program, replacing it with private retirement accounts. The private system is subject to regular payroll deductions and employer matches, essentially mirroring Social Security tax withholding and employer match provisions.

"There are a number of [county employees] that are strong advocates and say it's really a very, very good, solid, strong, financially and fiscally strong program that is for the benefit of county employees far in excess of what Social Security would be," Galveston County Legal Department Director Harvey Bazaman told Cybercast News Service.

Under Galveston's "Alternate Plan," the county withholds approximately six percent of each employee's salary for retirement. That money, along with a partial match by the county, is invested in personal accounts for each participating employee. The remaining county match covers the cost of disability and life insurance policies for employees, which also pay benefits much higher than those offered by Social Security.

While the employee-employer funding formulas are nearly identical under both Social Security and the Galveston Alternate Plan, the results are very different.

The U.S. Treasury Bonds purchased with money from the Social Security "trust fund" pay approximately two percent. But for the period from 1982 through 1997 the rate of return on funds invested in the Galveston plan has averaged 8.6 percent, a return more than 400 percent greater than Social Security.

Data from First Financial Benefits, which administers the Galveston Alternate Plan, shows that county workers earning slightly more than $17,000 a year can retire at age 65 with a monthly payment of $1,285 compared with $782 a month under Social Security.

Due to having more money withheld and the effects of compounding interest, higher income employees in Galveston see even larger benefits under the Alternate Plan. Workers earning $51,263 a year could retire at 65 with a monthly benefit of $3,846, while the same worker participating in Social Security would receive $1,540 each month.

Even the relatively low "guaranteed rate of return" in the Galveston plan roughly doubles the rate of return for Social Security. Funds already invested in annuities have a guaranteed yield of 3.75 percent, according to Bazaman. As for money being placed into private accounts today, Bazaman said the rate is slightly higher at 4.24 percent.

"They have never lost money. They have gone through double recessions in the 1980s, recessions in the 90s, and a tech boom and bust in the 1990s and into 2000," said Charles Jarvis, chairman and CEO of USA Next-United Seniors. "They've gone through another recession, an attack on this country and wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, yet they have steadily provided income for people."

The Galveston County, Texas Alternate Plan enacted in 1981 with the approval of 78 percent of local employees proved popular locally. By 1983, local government workers in three nearby municipalities -- Brazoria and Matagorda Counties, and Texas City -- also voted to quit Social Security in favor of private retirement plans.

Amid growing enthusiasm for an alternative to Social Security, the Democrat-controlled Congress voted in 1983 to end the provisions giving municipal workers the option to leave the federal system. (gee, what a surprise)

The Social Security Administration estimates that, nationwide, seven million public employees opted out of the federal retirement plan before Congress eliminated that choice. Those employees' combined annual incomes for 1999 totaled $129 billion. Based on that figure, and including estimated employer matching funds, those public employees invested approximately $17 billion in variations of private retirement accounts that year rather than in Social Security.

In testimony before the President's Commission on Social Security in 2001, former Galveston County Judge Ray Holbrook relayed the story of a county commissioner who died in office.

According to Holbrook, the commissioner's widow received a $255 death benefit from Social Security. But under the Galveston Alternate Plan, she also received a lump-sum survivor's benefit of $150,000 and was entitled to her late-husband's $125,000 reserve account.

Holbrook's anecdote underscores another aspect touted by backers of private accounts -- that the money paid into them is the private property of the employee. As a result, private retirement account funds are passed on to an employee's heirs upon his or her death, unlike unpaid Social Security benefits, which are forfeited to the government.


Sounds like a great plan to me! I'm over 40, so I won't have this option - but I think younger workers should get on the bandwagon and insist Congress do something about this!

JoeChalupa
02-03-2005, 10:12 AM
Thanks for posting that again.
It should be no shock to anyone that private retirement accounts work.

Clandestino
02-03-2005, 10:13 AM
yeah, i've seen this before... i don't see why people wouldn't want to put 30-40% of their money into ss.. why put money into something that in 15 years will be taking out money than you're putting in...

JoeChalupa
02-03-2005, 10:15 AM
I pump into my 401K like there is no tomorrow.

Clandestino
02-03-2005, 10:16 AM
CNN) -- President Bush's State of the Union address raised support for his policies on health care and Social Security among people who watched the speech, according to a CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll conducted Wednesday night.

The percentage of respondents who said the president's proposals in those areas will help the country rose 15 points from when the same question was asked of the same people in the two days before the speech.

In the post-speech sample, 70 percent of respondents said Bush's policies on health care were positive, while 66 percent approved of the president's plan for Social Security.

Bush showed almost as much improvement on Iraq, with 78 percent of respondents saying U.S. policy there is heading in the right direction, a 12 percentage point increase over pre-speech polling. Overall, 77 percent of respondents said Bush is taking the country in the right direction after the speech compared to 67 percent beforehand.

The strong positives for the president's policies may in part be a reflection of the poll's sample. Of the 485 people surveyed, 52 percent identified themselves as Republicans, 25 percent as Democrats and 22 percent as independents. The poll was done by telephone interviews and has a margin of error of plus or minus 5 percentage points.

Respondents still said Iraq was the most important issue facing the president and the nation in the coming year -- 30 percent, compared with 23 percent for terrorism. Social Security was the top domestic issue, with 19 percent of respondents saying it should be the government's main focus.

Overall, Bush got very positive or positive reactions to his speech from 86 percent of respondents, his best numbers since the State of the Union address he gave January 29, 2002 -- just four-and-a-half months after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 -- when 94 percent of those polled gave him positive marks

Yonivore
02-03-2005, 10:30 AM
I pump into my 401K like there is no tomorrow.
To the max baby! Now, give me a private retirement account and I'll do the same!

NeoConIV
02-03-2005, 10:41 AM
To the max baby! Now, give me a private retirement account and I'll do the same!
Amen brother.

JoeChalupa
02-03-2005, 10:58 AM
To the max baby! Now, give me a private retirement account and I'll do the same!

Private retirement accounts are already available and people have been doing it for years.

SpursWoman
02-03-2005, 11:09 AM
Private retirement accounts are already available and people have been doing it for years.


But yearly contributions are limited, and a lot of people can't afford to contribute anything above what's withheld for SS.

Even if you put in the max now, wouldn't you like to add that additional 6%?

:)

JoeChalupa
02-03-2005, 11:13 AM
Yes, I concur. Every bit helps.

SpursWoman
02-03-2005, 11:17 AM
The other huge benefit that I like: Your heirs will be entitled to any $$ in your account if you expire prematurely...

And I don't know if they intend to have it run like a 401k, but I wonder if you'd be able to borrow against it for education or a home or medical emergencies, too........

Nbadan
02-03-2005, 12:21 PM
Under the White House Social Security plan, retirees who opt to divert some of their payroll taxes into private accounts would ultimately get to keep only the investment returns that exceed the rate of return that the money would have accrued in the traditional system.

The mechanism, detailed by a senior administration official before President Bush's State of the Union address, would hold down the cost of Bush's plan to introduce private accounts to the Social Security system. But it could come as a surprise to those lawmakers and voters who have thought of these accounts as akin to an Individual Retirement Account or a 401(k) that they could use in its entirety upon retirement.

"You'll be able to pass along the money that accumulates in your personal account, if you wish, to your children or grandchildren," Bush said last night. "And best of all, the money in the account is yours, and the government can never take it away."

The plan is more complicated. Under the proposal, workers could invest up to 4 percent of their wages subject to Social Security taxation in a limited assortment of stock, bond and mixed-investment funds. But the government would keep and administer that money. Upon retirement, workers would then be given any money that exceeded inflation-adjusted gains over 3 percent.

more…

More...


Highlights of the Proposal

• ELIGIBILITY: People born before 1950 would not be affected.

• INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNTS: People born in 1950 or later could divert up to 4 percent of income subject to Social Security taxes into individual accounts, up to $1,000 a year -- a cap that would be phased out.

• WHEN: The accounts would be phased in between 2009 and 2011.

• OPTIONS: Workers would be able to choose among several stock, bond and mixed-investment funds.

• LIMITATIONS: Participants would have no access to the accounts before retirement and could not borrow against the balance.

• AT RETIREMENT: Participants would be required to buy annuities to ensure steady payments out of the accounts over a lifetime.

Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58731-2005Feb2_2.html)

If you die, your forfeit everything...


Any funds that remained available under these annuities after death would go to the Social Security program; the money could not be inherited. While that would assure retirees a monthly check while they live, it also could undercut what polling shows is one of the most persuasive arguments on behalf of personal accounts - that they can be inherited.

Link (http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBEOOZ9Q4E.html)

Wait a minute....didn't W say this yesterday?


"You'll be able to pass along the money that accumulates in your personal account, if you wish, to your children or grandchildren," Bush said last night. "And best of all, the money in the account is yours, and the government can never take it away."

The plan is more complicated.


Ahem. The plan is more complicated? How about: Bush presented it in an entirely misleading, if not entirely fabricated, manner.

Stay tuned for more bogus and "the sky is falling" messages, coming to your city soon.

SpursWoman
02-03-2005, 12:25 PM
Fuck it, then. How the hell could the majority of all of these idiot-American's be even remotely capable of handling their own money? God forbid all of us retards even be even afforded the opportunity to earn more for our own future and security.

WTF could they be thinking, those damn conservative liars!

























Was that a good TPark or what? :lol

Useruser666
02-03-2005, 12:27 PM
You forgot the, "Rasho is awsome!" part. :lol

SpursWoman
02-03-2005, 12:31 PM
You forgot the, "Rasho is awsome!" part. :lol


I don't think I misspelled enough, either...but the sentiment was there. :)

office handle
02-03-2005, 12:31 PM
the program needs to be changed. we are in a different era now, one in which people are more capable of preparing for their retirement. if the true bush plan now is to not allow for full ownership that isnt a step in the right direction, but not a deal breaker for me.

id also say that it needs to be changed from its current state because it is a raw deal as is. given the details above id take that over the current system.

sure, SS as it stands is "sustainable", but that sustainability is based on the ability of the government to increase payroll taxes or change the adjustments to the benefit formulas. no thanks.

JohnnyMarzetti
02-03-2005, 01:00 PM
What some of you conservative know it alls fail to realize is that if the not so smart ones donot invest their money then the Govt will have to bail them out when the old farts don't have any retirement of social security.

Perhaps we wouldn't be in this mess if Dubya hadn't decided to say screw the deficit.

Clandestino
02-03-2005, 01:02 PM
What some of you conservative know it alls fail to realize is that if the not so smart ones donot invest their money then the Govt will have to bail them out when the old farts don't have any retirement of social security.

Perhaps we wouldn't be in this mess if Dubya hadn't decided to say screw the deficit.

the not so smart ones will have their regular ss... the smarter ones will have their money, but not total control over it.. basically it just diverts money...it doesn't take anything out really.. you will still be paying the same amount of social security no matter which plan you choose

office handle
02-03-2005, 01:02 PM
What some of you conservative know it alls fail to realize is that if the not so smart ones donot invest their money then the Govt will have to bail them out when the old farts don't have any retirement of social security.

Perhaps we wouldn't be in this mess if Dubya hadn't decided to say screw the deficit.

thats why you make it a welfare program. yes, that invites a moral hazard problem, but id say not much more than already exists.

SpursWoman
02-03-2005, 01:05 PM
Perhaps we wouldn't be in this mess if Dubya hadn't decided to say screw the deficit.

No, perhaps we wouldn't be in this mess if all the wives & girlfriends of those horny US soldiers coming back from WWII would have kept their legs closed.

:)

Yonivore
02-03-2005, 01:24 PM
Private retirement accounts are already available and people have been doing it for years.
Okay, smartass, I meant give me my money (being diverted to the government Ponzi scheme called Social Security) so that I may invest it in a private retirement account instead of the bottomless pit.

Yonivore
02-03-2005, 01:27 PM
What some of you conservative know it alls fail to realize is that if the not so smart ones donot invest their money then the Govt will have to bail them out when the old farts don't have any retirement of social security.

Perhaps we wouldn't be in this mess if Dubya hadn't decided to say screw the deficit.
Gee, you sound like Bill Clinton.

Yonivore
02-03-2005, 01:28 PM
No, perhaps we wouldn't be in this mess if all the wives & girlfriends of those horny US soldiers coming back from WWII would have kept their legs closed.

:)
Ouch! Didn't see that comin'.
:lol

MannyIsGod
02-03-2005, 01:36 PM
Hey man, I'm not going to tell a solider what to do with his gun when he gets back from war.

I don't know the specifics of Bush's plan, but I have no problem with giving me control of my own money.

SpursWoman
02-03-2005, 01:38 PM
Hey man, I'm not going to tell a solider what to do with his gun when he gets back from war.



So, what? The jokes are only funny when they're yours? ;)

Yonivore
02-03-2005, 01:40 PM
So, what? The jokes are only funny when they're yours? ;)
I laughed.

MannyIsGod
02-03-2005, 01:41 PM
sheehs, i giggled, i was just continuing the joke. You old people and your social security get testy :p

SpursWoman
02-03-2005, 01:45 PM
:lol


I'm not that crotchity.....yet. I still don't qualify for the 55+..... :lol

MannyIsGod
02-03-2005, 01:48 PM
Jess and I wish we could order off the senior menu at Jims and Ihop, we feel jipped.