Who will finish next season with better numbers-- Mason or Pietrus?

[Tully365]

Since, according to many people on Spurstalk, they were both overpaid...

[peacemaker885]

If Mason starts, I think Mason.

[ChumpDumper]

Who doesn't think they are overpaid?

[bdictjames]

People are seriously overrating Mason Jr.

Pietrus will be in a run-and-gun system. He'll have better numbers.

[Tully365]

Last season's stats:

Pietrus
7.2 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.7 spg, 1.0 spg, 19.9 mpg

Mason
9.1 mpg, 1.6 rpg, 1.7 apg, 0.5 spg, 21.4 mpg

[spurman20]

Mason will be asked to score so I think he will put up better numbers. Pietrus will be at best the 5th option on a team full of scores, he was signed to give the team someone besides Howard to play D.

[Tully365]

People are seriously overrating Mason Jr.

Pietrus will be in a run-and-gun system. He'll have better numbers.

Pietrus was in a run-n-gun system last year too, though admittedly he was injured and missed quite a few games.

[ducks]

per 48 or per minutes actually played?

[Riverwalkman]

Pietrus will have better numbers, Mason Jr. will score 15 points in Final Game7, including three clutch jumpers in the fourth.

[Spurtacus]

We got a better deal in Mason. Both are overpaid, but Pietrus is beyond overpaid.

[Tully365]

We got a better deal in Mason. Both are overpaid, but Pietrus is beyond overpaid.

What numbers would the two have to put up to justify their contracts in your opinion?

[DMX7]

probably mason.

[timvp]

Pietrus will have the better numbers easily. Mason will struggle some because that's what happens to all shooters who join the Spurs. On top of that, Pietrus will play a lot of minutes and he's on a team that will allow him to attack the rim frequently because everyone outside of Howard stays at the three-point line. Pietrus is a good fit in Orlando and I fully expect him to have a career year. Mason, on the other hand, will be hard pressed to play as well next year as he did last year.

All that said, Mason is a better fit for the Spurs and also has a much better contract. Pietrus was a bad fit and his contract is ugly.

[anakha]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2005-03-29-salary-package_x.htm

A production-to-salary analysis like the one made in the linked article would probably be the best way to resolve this.

[exstatic]

People are seriously overrating Mason Jr.

Pietrus will be in a run-and-gun system. He'll have better numbers.


Last season's stats:

Pietrus
7.2 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.7 spg, 1.0 spg, 19.9 mpg

Mason
9.1 mpg, 1.6 rpg, 1.7 apg, 0.5 spg, 21.4 mpg

Looks like Pietrus didn't do shit in the ULTIMATE run and gun system.

[TJastal]

Offensively they will probably produce similar like numbers, although Pietrus will most likely make the majority of his points off drives to the basket and fast breaks, Mason otoh from long range bombs.

I think something that may be overlooked that may turn out to be more important to their respective ballclubs will be their defense, something that is tougher to gauge with just looking at "the numbers". Both are coming with reps as good perimeter defenders, but I'm a little shaky on Mason panning out as such. I am wondering if he will have the quickness, size, and athleticsm that is needed at the 2. Popovich may have to play him as an undersized 3 in certain situations. Pietrus I think has more flexibility in this regard, being that he has those 3 things in abundance (quickness, size, and athleticism) to put to full use at alot of different positions (1,2,3,or even 4).

[picnroll]

If they both fulfill their hoped for roles I'll go with Mason as putting more points up.

[Buddy Holly]

Mason will at years end average 4-5 more points than Pietrus.

[JPB]

Looks like Pietrus didn't do shit in the ULTIMATE run and gun system.


The number of touches you got has to be considered also.

Mason had opportunities last year because of several whashington players injuries.

With Baron, Sjax, Ellis, Barnes, MP didn't had many touches and had to fight to get some. that's mainly why he was asking to leave since 2 years now.

I'm not saying he's gonna be a 20 pts player in Orlando, but minutes aren't the only data to consider when comparing players productions.

[TJastal]

One thing that I think may give Pietrus the overall edge in production is that he is not going to be a 1 trick pony, he will get his points a variety of ways (slashing, fastbreak, offensive rebounds, long range), where it appears to me that Mason is going to live out on that 3 pt line much like Bowen.

[picnroll]

With Baron, Sjax, Ellis, Barnes, MP didn't had many touches and had to fight to get some. that's mainly why he was asking to leave since 2 years now.

I'm not saying he's gonna be a 20 pts player in Orlando, but minutes aren't the only data to consider when comparing players productions.

With Howard, Lewis, Hedo, Nelson I'd hope the Magic make him even less of the offense.

[wildbill2u]

Since, according to many people on Spurstalk, they were both overpaid...

We better damn well hope it's Mason since by necessity he's probably gonna get a whole lot more minutes than Pietrus.

[TJastal]

Here's a little tidbit that backs up what I said earlier about Pietrus, and the defensive flexibility he brings.


Shooting guard Mickael Pietrus was asked if co-captain Dwight Howard had reached out to him yet and welcomed him to the Orlando Magic.

"Yes, if you look at the tape when he broke my nose," laughed Pietrus, recalling how he took an elbow from Howard during a 2006 game in Orlando while trying to make a steal. :lol

"I guess this year I don't have to wear a mask. I'll just be careful in practice."

The play explained why the Magic are enamored with Pietrus: His forte is sticking his nose in on the defensive end and guarding every position but center.

Coach Stan Van Gundy gave Pietrus his job description, in part, during a news conference on Thursday, moments after the club signed him to a four-year, $22 million free-agent deal.

"He defends and the thing we liked is he's got the ability to defend twos and threes," Van Gundy said. "I even saw him guarding [point guard] Andre Miller in the Philly game, and he guarded a lot of fours.

"He can go to Cleveland and guard LeBron James and then go guard [Dwyane] Wade."

Pietrus, 26, is more than happy to do the defensive dirty work with his non-stop hustle and huge wingspan.

Scoring isn't a concern for the Magic, who ranked No. 8 in points per game. But their shooting guards last season gave up an average of 16.5 points per game at the position as Wade averaged 40 points, Joe Johnson 23.8 and Rip Hamilton 21.7 in their meetings.

"On defense, trust me, I'm having fun," said the 6 foot-6, 215-pound Pietrus in his distinctive French lilt. "Because you want to get a steal and your teammate scores and he's happy. . . . For me to get a steal, to get a charge . . . for me, to do a great job on defense is my main focus."

Pietrus left the Golden State Warriors after five seasons. He chose the Magic over interested teams such as the Detroit Pistons and the New York Knicks.

The lure of playing with an up-and-coming club and with all-star Howard were factors in Orlando's favor.

"It's a very young team so we have a great chance to be a contender for a championship this year," he said. "I like the team and I like Superman [Howard's nickname]. He makes everyone around him better."

A native of the French Caribbean island of Les Abymes, Guadeloupe, Pietrus said he has had a relationship with Magic General Manager Otis Smith since the Warriors drafted him in the first round in 2003. Smith was the Warriors' player personnel director, but then left to join the Magic's front office as head of player development.

Smith not only remained friends with Pietrus but said he tried to trade for him when he became the Magic's GM.

"I think that Otis knew me very well. He knows what I'm capable of doing for our team," Pietrus said.

Pietrus averaged just 8.6 points at Golden State, but his agent, Bill McCandless, said, "People look at Mike on paper and say, 'Well, he averaged just eight points,' but there is more to him. He's a guy who can become a double-figure scorer."

Added Van Gundy, "He's only 26. He's got a great deal of upside offensively. We see great potential here for somebody who can help us in a lot of different ways."


Full link
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-magic1108jul11,0,5432878.story

[Tully365]

Here's a little tidbit that backs up what I said earlier about Pietrus, and the defensive flexibility he brings

Pietrus on defense:

"On defense, trust me, I'm having fun," said the 6 foot-6, 215-pound Pietrus in his distinctive French lilt. "Because you want to get a steal and your teammate scores and he's happy. . . . For me to get a steal, to get a charge . . . for me, to do a great job on defense is my main focus."

"I think that Otis knew me very well. He knows what I'm capable of doing for our team," Pietrus said.

Van Gundy on Pietrus:

He defends and the thing we liked is he's got the ability to defend twos and threes," Van Gundy said. "I even saw him guarding [point guard] Andre Miller in the Philly game, and he guarded a lot of fours.

Added Van Gundy, "He's only 26. He's got a great deal of upside offensively. We see great potential here for somebody who can help us in a lot of different ways."

Full link
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-magic1108jul11,0,5432878.story

That's a good point. There has been a lot of talk about Basketball IQ concerning Pietrus, but I think the fact that he enthusiastically wants to play defense is an important plus for him, and something that many other young players in the league still don't get. It always amazes me (and makes me question BB IQ) when a young player who has probably been playing some form of organized basketball-- jr high, high school, summer leagues, YMCA, college, etc.-- for 15 years still has to be reminded by his coach about the necessity of playing defense. That's not a problem with either Mason or Pietrus.

[ChumpDumper]

Wow, the French posters really came out of the woodwork on this one.

Still, I don't see a full MLE player. We'll find out soon enough.

[Tully365]

Wow, the French posters really came out of the woodwork on this one.

Still, I don't see a full MLE player. We'll find out soon enough.

There's a chance Orlando agrees with you but decided overpaying a bit and improving the team was a better option than doing nothing. I think it was a good move on their part. They added necessary (and good) defense, and are still not burdened with a contract that is impossible to move if things don't work out.

[TJastal]

Guys like Pietrus, Ariza, Bowen, Posey who have the flexibility to guard a variety of positions and play good defense on all of em, that's a very valuable commodity in today's NBA, and if you look at what Pietrus can do offensively too (and he's only gonna get better at age 26) its a no-brainer to sign this guy up for MLE type money IMO.

[Tully365]

Guys like Pietrus, Ariza, Bowen, Posey who have the flexibility to guard a variety of positions and play good defense on all of em, that's a very valuable commodity in today's NBA, and if you look at what Pietrus can do offensively too (and he's only gonna get better at age 26) its a no-brainer to sign this guy up for MLE type money IMO.

Yeah, and so much just depends on the market. In this free agent market there were lots of teams that could only offer the MLE, and lots of those teams were looking at Pietrus. Orlando acted fast and got their guy. Is it fair that Pietrus will make more next year than Bowen has ever made? Maybe not, but it's not fair that Marbury makes double what Parker makes either. The market is a very imprecise animal, and sometimes you gotta feed it more than you'd like to keep it from eating you.

[objective]

Is it fair that Pietrus will make more next year than Bowen has ever made? Maybe not, but it's not fair that Marbury makes double what Parker makes either. The market is a very imprecise animal, and sometimes you gotta feed it more than you'd like to keep it from eating you.

speaking of the market and Bowen, is it even fair that Roger Mason will be making more than Bowen did his first 5 seasons with the Spurs?

[TJastal]

Yeah, and so much just depends on the market. In this free agent market there were lots of teams that could only offer the MLE, and lots of those teams were looking at Pietrus. Orlando acted fast and got their guy. Is it fair that Pietrus will make more next year than Bowen has ever made? Maybe not, but it's not fair that Marbury makes double what Parker makes either. The market is a very imprecise animal, and sometimes you gotta feed it more than you'd like to keep it from eating you.

Well, Bowen is 37 years old, on the downswing, if not the final year of his career. If he was 26 and in his prime right now, I'm sure he could go out in today's market and find himself a similar contract to Pietrus'

So what's your point?

[Tully365]

Well, Bowen is 37 years old, on the downswing, if not the final year of his career. If he was 26 and in his prime right now, I'm sure he could go out in today's market and find himself a similar contract to Pietrus'

So what's your point?

I agree. My point is that the market fluctuates, and the front office of a single team has little ability to change that. You have to decide if you want to add pieces or if you want to stand pat. When Bowen was in his prime, age-wise, not many teams went after him. in retrospect, he was an amazing bargain for the Spurs. But the Spurs paid more per year for Rasho and for Malik Rose than they did for Bowen, hoping those guys would contribute more than they did. Again, the market made it necessary to overpay-- Rasho was a guy with "potential" and he was 7'0". If Rasho had continued to grow and had become a 13 pt/8 reb per game type of player, the Spurs would have had themselves a deal. But he didn't, and they traded him for a more reasonable contract-- Matt Bonner's. Bowen, on the other hand, did work out.... but still never made more than Rasho. Life isn't always fair...