Monroe: Replacing Old Guard With New Blood

[duncan228]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA071308.AgedSpurs.en.4007bb0.html

Spurs: Replacing old guard with new blood
By Mike Monroe

We're older than dirt. — Gregg Popovich

Youth is a wonderful thing. What a crime to waste it on children. — George Bernard Shaw

LAS VEGAS — The 13 players who suited up for the Spurs in their playoff run last season averaged 32.46 years old. That made them, if not quite as ancient as dirt, the oldest team in the NBA.

Depending, in part, on what Popovich and his assistants see from first-round draft pick George Hill, who is 22, and a group of equally young players who will put their skills on display in summer league games in Las Vegas and Salt Lake City over the next nine days, the Spurs figure to be significantly younger when the 2008-09 regular season begins.

Simply plugging free agent signee Roger Mason Jr., 27, in the guard spot once occupied by Brent Barry, who is 36, instantly drops the average age to 31.76. It will drop more before next season's opener, perhaps dramatically, depending on which players make the roster.

Fans and media critics who have been calling for the Spurs to get younger and more athletic may finally be getting their wish.

Hill, the combination guard from Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis (IUPUI) almost certainly will be on the opening night roster. In a rare show of confidence, Popovich asserted that Hill will be Tony Parker's primary backup and make the Spurs better, at both ends of the court, “right off the bat.”

Like Hill, Spurs second-round picks Malik Hairston and James Gist are 22. Popovich says he thinks both players are good enough to make the Spurs' 15-man roster.

Ian Mahinimi, 18 when the Spurs made him the 28th pick of the 2004 draft, also will be in Las Vegas and Salt Lake City. Entering the second season of the contract he signed last summer, Mahinmi spent most of last season with the Spurs' D-League team, the Austin Toros. His goal this summer: Convince the Spurs' coaches his game has developed to the point he merits a spot in the team's big man rotation, along with Tim Duncan, Fabricio Oberto, Matt Bonner and Kurt Thomas, should the Spurs re-sign him.

Don't make the mistake of calling next season the beginning of a transition period for a team that has won four championships since 1999. The Spurs don't mind being among the oldest teams in the league. NBA history suggests those teams are best suited for extended playoff runs.

“That's the popular thing to say or write,” said assistant coach Mike Budenholzer, Popovich's top assistant and head coach of the summer league team. “But we didn't lose (to the Lakers, in the 2008 Western Conference finals) because we were too old. If you were inside the walls, you'd know we don't believe we lost because we were too old.”

Budenholzer said summer league play is much more important for Hill, Hairston, Gist and Mahinmi than it is for the Spurs, who know they will remain among the league's best teams as long as Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker are healthy.

The youngsters know what they must do. Flattered by Popovich's draft night praise, Hill takes nothing for granted about a spot in the team's backcourt rotation.

“It's a great opportunity to play with Tony Parker,” Hill said. “He's a great player, but you've got a great vet, also, in Jacque Vaughn. You can't count anyone out. There's two players at that position I can learn so much from, just from the standpoint of Vaughn being in the NBA for so many years and Parker just being a great point guard.

“I have the best end of it right now, learning from two great players.”

Budenholzer won't place unreasonable expectations on Hill when summer league play begins Monday night with a game against the Memphis Grizzlies at Thomas and Mack Arena.

“I do think it's going to happen,” Budenholzer said of Hill's development into a rotation player, “but it's hard to put that kind of pressure on him. He might even struggle in summer league. But he's got all of August and training camp to learn.

“I want to slow it down a little bit and not judge him just on the next two weeks. But he has a lot of things we believe in. I think he's going to be good, but it might take a while to evolve. He's a great competitor, one of those kids who is going to find a way.”

Hairston, a former McDonald's high school All-American, has a simple goal for summer league: win.

“That's the big thing,” Hairston said, “and I think that's why I might be a great fit in San Antonio, because they love to win and do everything that it takes. I just want to show them I'll work hard every possession to try to make my team better and do whatever my team needs me to do.”

What the Spurs most want to see from all their summer leaguers is commitment to the Spurs' philosophy of team play.

“We have the same message for all of these summer league guys: Show us you can play defense and are willing to play team basketball,” Budenholzer said. “Be unselfish, make the little plays, get guys open, feed the post.”

And if they do?

On opening night, the Spurs could suit up a lineup with an average age under 30.

Then it will be Spurs 1, Dirt 0.

Spurs Roster

Matt Bonner, F, 28

Bruce Bowen, F, 37

Tim Duncan, F, 32

* Michael Finley, G, 35

Manu Ginobili, G, 30

James Gist, F, 21

Malik Hairston, G, 21

George Hill, G, 22

* Robert Horry, F, 37

Ian Mahinmi, F, 21

Roger Mason, G, 27

Fabricio Oberto, C, 33

Tony Parker, G, 26

* Kurt Thomas, C, 35

Ime Udoka, F, 30

Jacque Vaughn, G, 33

The average age of the current Spurs roster is 29.3.

Note: The Spurs must start the season with 12 active players and can carry up to three on the inactive list.

* — Unrestricted free agent

[Marcus Bryant]

Fans and media critics who have been calling for the Spurs to get younger and more athletic may finally be getting their wish.

Exactly. So shut up already.

[Tully365]

Exactly. So shut up already.

+1

I'll defend the FO forever on this. Their plan, to have the contracts of 4 older guys all expire at the same time, to bring over Splitter, to draft for immediate help & youth, and to sign a younger free agent, was a great plan. The Splitter thing was not their fault-- drafting him was a very intelligent thing to do. Portland picking Oden was a good move too-- if it turns out that he is constantly injured over the next few years and has to retire young a la Ralph Sampson or Jonathan Bender, that will not mean that their FO is stupid. It will mean they had bad luck, which is an unfortunate malady that strikes every FO from time to time.

[Mister Sinister]

Exactly. So shut up already.
Word.

[Kori Ellis]

Summer league will definitely be interesting. I am most interested in seeing Mahinmi's development (note: he was drafted in 2005 not 2004).

[Kori Ellis]

Like Hill, Spurs second-round picks Malik Hairston and James Gist are 22.


James Gist, F, 21

Malik Hairston, G, 21

:lol

[timvp]

Yeah, everyone whined for the Spurs to get younger. Now they are getting younger, people are complaining about the players who are leaving.


Budenholzer won't place unreasonable expectations on Hill when summer league play begins Monday night with a game against the Memphis Grizzlies at Thomas and Mack Arena.

“I do think it's going to happen,” Budenholzer said of Hill's development into a rotation player, “but it's hard to put that kind of pressure on him. He might even struggle in summer league. But he's got all of August and training camp to learn.

“I want to slow it down a little bit and not judge him just on the next two weeks. But he has a lot of things we believe in. I think he's going to be good, but it might take a while to evolve. He's a great competitor, one of those kids who is going to find a way.”

Hopefully Mike Bud is just trying to lower expectations. If Hill doesn't at least look decent in summer league, the Spurs might have to alter their plans in free agency.

[tlongII]

Their plan is fine. It's the execution of their plan that leaves you scratching your head.

[knee-knee-3]

Their plan is fine. It's the execution of their plan that leaves you scratching your head.

So what should we have done?

[picnroll]

So what should we have done?
Be in the lottery the last five years or so so we could load up on young talent.

[knee-knee-3]

Be in the lottery the last five years or so so we could load up on young talent.

:lobt2:

[Borosai]

Bring on the rookies!

[Tully365]

Their plan is fine. It's the execution of their plan that leaves you scratching your head.

Their execution was fine. Splitter surprised everybody. That was the glitch. That's not bad execution-- it's bad luck. But it'll be no different if Greg Oden's two legs, which are different lengths, cause him constant hip and knee problems, which is something that is very plausible. I hope it doesn't happen-- I like the guy, and think he is talented and classy, but it is not beyond the realm of possibility...

[picnroll]

Looking forward to seeing Mahinmi and Hill. Wouldn't be surprised at all if Hairston isn't the one who stands out though.

[timvp]

This is going to be the most important summer league I can remember. Two potential rotation players and a total of four players who are good bets to make the team? I'm not going to expect domination but they need to play much, much, much better than Marcus Williams did last year.

Speaking of Williams, he's shooting 11% for the Clippers in their first two games. I guess all those Spurs fans who thought I was being mean when I said he sucked and was a bust after the first summer league game last year will begin to see the light soon . . .

[objective]

the team as a whole should do a lot better than last year if Hill is even a marginally competant d-league level point guard.

The point guard play on last year's squad was ridiculously bad in my memory.

[tlongII]

Their execution sucked. They used a first round pick on George Hill? From IUPUI? Give me an effing break! The Spurs got lucky drafting Parker and Ginobili several years ago, but have been brain-dead ever since.

[ChumpDumper]

You never ever saw him play, so why act like you have?

[tlongII]

You never ever saw him play, so why act like you have?

What? Are you attempting to make a point?

[T Park]

You would know T Long seeing as you fail greatly everytime at trying to make one.

All your trying to do is troll and be funny.

You fail miserably at both. Quit trying.

[hsxvvd]

Their execution sucked. They used a first round pick on George Hill? From IUPUI? Give me an effing break! The Spurs got lucky drafting Parker and Ginobili several years ago, but have been brain-dead ever since.

This quote could be gold in 5 years time, one way or another.

[knee-knee-3]

What? Are you attempting to make a point?

Point to the last time your team was worth a shit!

[hsxvvd]

Point to the last time your team was worth a shit!

Even as a Spurs fan, I'd be feeling more optimistic about the Blazers line-up for the next 5-10 years than I do the Spurs.

[MannyIsGod]

Even as a Spurs fan, I'd be feeling more optimistic about the Blazers line-up for the next 5-10 years than I do the Spurs.


Well fuck, if the Spurs hadn't been busy winning titles then maybe they could have sucked and loaded up on lottery picks like the Blazers.

[midgetonadonkey]

A team full of lottery picks doesn't mean they will be worth a damn.

[anakha]

A team full of lottery picks doesn't mean they will be worth a damn.

Signed,

The Los Angeles Clippers

[Buddy Holly]

Even as a Spurs fan, I'd be feeling more optimistic about the Blazers line-up for the next 5-10 years than I do the Spurs.

5-10? :lol:lol:lmao:lmao:rollin:rollin:nope

[ChumpDumper]

What? Are you attempting to make a point?Yep.

Point made.

[Tully365]

Their execution sucked. They used a first round pick on George Hill? From IUPUI? Give me an effing break! The Spurs got lucky drafting Parker and Ginobili several years ago, but have been brain-dead ever since.

So when they pick good guys, it's luck, but if a pick turns out to be not-so-good, it's proof that they suck? Strange logic. Using this method of analysis, there's no way they could ever make a wise move in your opinion. I call your style of debate the "Hamster running in a wheel" method. No matter how fast you think you may be going, you're still actually stuck in the same place... take a rest... go take a tug off of the water bottle...

[ehz33satx]

Their execution sucked. They used a first round pick on George Hill? From IUPUI? Give me an effing break! The Spurs got lucky drafting Parker and Ginobili several years ago, but have been brain-dead ever since.

Brain dead to the point of winning a total of 4 championships. I will tell you this right now, your beloved Trailblazers will not be winning any championships anytime soon. You can bet your homely looking ass on that.

[Spurs Brazil]

Good to know Monroe is in Las Vegas.

Let's see if he can bring some news from the Summer League

[SenorSpur]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA071308.AgedSpurs.en.4007bb0.html

Spurs: Replacing old guard with new blood
By Mike Monroe

We're older than dirt. — Gregg Popovich

Youth is a wonderful thing. What a crime to waste it on children. — George Bernard Shaw

LAS VEGAS — The 13 players who suited up for the Spurs in their playoff run last season averaged 32.46 years old. That made them, if not quite as ancient as dirt, the oldest team in the NBA.

“That's the popular thing to say or write,” said assistant coach Mike Budenholzer, Popovich's top assistant and head coach of the summer league team. “But we didn't lose (to the Lakers, in the 2008 Western Conference finals) because we were too old. If you were inside the walls, you'd know we don't believe we lost because we were too old.”



I call bullshit! Who is he kidding? I don't give a damn what Coach Bud, Coach Pop or anyone else on that coaching staff says publicly. They watched that team perform during the playoffs just like the rest of us. They saw the same warts and deficiencies that rest off us saw. If they're honest in their assessment, they know that was a team that was tired, old, and injured. A team that got routinely outhustled, outquicked, outrebounded and outplayed - despite their so-called age and experience.

The coaches can bristle at these claims, from fans and media, all they want. They can publicly blame Manu's injury as the reason for their playoff failures, but we all know the truth - even if they wont admit it publicly. They need to get over themselves. Even their prized, all-star PG makes the same claims.

Age and experience certainly have their place and they are absolutely key elements toward championship contention. However, the Spurs had gone too far in that direction, where it became detrimental. CIA or no CIA, the Spurs draft and FA strategy is a private admission and an indictment as to how old and unathletic this team had become - even if the coaches wont say it publicly.

[TJastal]

I call bullshit! Who is he kidding? I don't give a damn what Coach Bud, Coach Pop or anyone else on that coaching staff says publicly. They watched that team perform during the playoffs just like the rest of us. They saw the same warts and deficiencies that rest off us saw. If they're honest in their assessment, they know that was a team that was tired, old, and injured. A team that got routinely outhustled, outquicked, outrebounded and outplayed - despite their so-called age and experience.

The coaches can bristle at these claims, from fans and media, all they want. They can publicly blame Manu's injury as the reason for their playoff failures, but we all know the truth - even if they wont admit it publicly. They need to get over themselves. Even their prized, all-star PG makes the same claims.

Age and experience certainly have their place and they are absolutely key elements toward championship contention. However, the Spurs had gone too far in that direction, where it became detrimental. CIA or no CIA, the Spurs draft and FA strategy is a private admission and an indictment as to how old and unathletic this team had become - even if the coaches wont say it publicly.

I agree in part with this assessment from Senor Spur. Seems to me however that the other half of the problem with the spurs is their lack of athleticism they have overall, especially on their frontline. Age is one thing, and can be overcome with guys getting proper rest for the playoffs, but lack of athleticism cannot be suddenly just turned on when needed.

If you take a look at the spurs from top to bottom they have almost no athletic players on their roster, outside of Parker, and that is really stretching the defenition to include him. Ginobili used to bring good athleticism every day, but those days are over sadly. Just for laughs, lets quick look at the spurs front line from last year in terms of athleticism:

Tim Duncan - gets by nowadays on height and length, used to have some minor hops, but that's pretty much gone

Kurt Thomas - uses his size and strength well, but cannot jump either.

Fabricio Oberto - can't dunk the ball and he's 6'10

Matt Bonner - not really what I'd call athletic

Robert Horry - at one time was quite the athlete, but that was at least 5 years ago

This is probably the least athletic front line in the NBA right now by a good margin. Is it any wonder the hornets and lakers practically scored at will at the front of the rim with Chandler and Gasol? Freakin Gasol even..

Thankfully the spurs are finally now taking steps to address this by adding some athletic rookies to the mix. However, the addition of Roger Mason, while he does shoot well, seems pretty stationary to the floor and doesn't really help the spurs athletically. What I think they really needed was an athletic 2/3, someone like Pietrus, Azubuike (especially Azuibuike). I would've even taken a flyer on JR Smith over Mason, the situation is that desperate. But who knows maybe one of these rookies Hairston or Gist will provide some athletic punch, but that remains to be seen.

[Sway]

I agree in part with this assessment from Senor Spur. Seems to me however that the other half of the problem with the spurs is their lack of athleticism they have overall, especially on their frontline. Age is one thing, and can be overcome with guys getting proper rest for the playoffs, but lack of athleticism cannot be suddenly just turned on when needed.

If you take a look at the spurs from top to bottom they have almost no athletic players on their roster, outside of Parker, and that is really stretching the defenition to include him. Ginobili used to bring good athleticism every day, but those days are over sadly. Just for laughs, lets quick look at the spurs front line from last year in terms of athleticism:

Tim Duncan - gets by nowadays on height and length, used to have some minor hops, but that's pretty much gone

Kurt Thomas - uses his size and strength well, but cannot jump either.

Fabricio Oberto - can't dunk the ball and he's 6'10

Matt Bonner - not really what I'd call athletic

Robert Horry - at one time was quite the athlete, but that was at least 5 years ago

This is probably the least athletic front line in the NBA right now by a good margin. Is it any wonder the hornets and lakers practically scored at will at the front of the rim with Chandler and Gasol? Freakin Gasol even..

Thankfully the spurs are finally now taking steps to address this by adding some athletic rookies to the mix. However, the addition of Roger Mason, while he does shoot well, seems pretty stationary to the floor and doesn't really help the spurs athletically. What I think they really needed was an athletic 2/3, someone like Pietrus, Azubuike (especially Azuibuike). I would've even taken a flyer on JR Smith over Mason, the situation is that desperate. But who knows maybe one of these rookies Hairston or Gist will provide some athletic punch, but that remains to be seen.

:tu

[MarHill]

I call bullshit! Who is he kidding? I don't give a damn what Coach Bud, Coach Pop or anyone else on that coaching staff says publicly. They watched that team perform during the playoffs just like the rest of us. They saw the same warts and deficiencies that rest off us saw. If they're honest in their assessment, they know that was a team that was tired, old, and injured. A team that got routinely outhustled, outquicked, outrebounded and outplayed - despite their so-called age and experience.

The coaches can bristle at these claims, from fans and media, all they want. They can publicly blame Manu's injury as the reason for their playoff failures, but we all know the truth - even if they wont admit it publicly. They need to get over themselves. Even their prized, all-star PG makes the same claims.

Age and experience certainly have their place and they are absolutely key elements toward championship contention. However, the Spurs had gone too
far in that direction, where it became detrimental. CIA or no CIA, the Spurs draft and FA strategy is a private admission and an indictment as to how old and unathletic this team had become - even if the coaches wont say it publicly.

Oh boy....let's go back revisit history. When the Spurs won the championship in 2007, both Pop & R.C said they were going to give the team an opportunity to defend their championship. So they didn't do anything last off-season...but brought every back.

At that time, a lot of people (including myself) thought it was a good move. Keep the core together and give them an opportunity to defend their championship.

Well...how did the season go? They had 56 wins and got to WCF. Okay...so they didn't win another championship. Wow...that can actually happen? Even in Spurs Country!!!!! Yikes!!

Yes...the team did have some offensive droughts and their play look spotty during the regular season. But, the fact they won a game 7 on the road in New Orleans (when they got smashed the first three games in NO) told me a lot about this team.

A championship every year isn't guarantee to anyone (I know that's hard to admit even for some spoiled Spurs fans). But the fact that injuries...had something to do with their performance in the WCF!

Even Lakers knew that Manu wasn't healthy and he would made a difference in the WCF.

Sometimes...the spoiled Spurs fans act like this team has gone from first to worst!! Geesh!!

I'm not saying the FO isn't above criticism. However, when you have won 3 championships in the last 6 years....you get the benefit of the doubt. Also, in the years you didn't win the championship...you got the Western Conference Semis twice & the Western Conference Finals once. That means you were able to maintain a championship contending level team consistently.

I know consistency, productivity, and be always right there in the hunt is (oh my)...boring!!

It seems like some Spurs fans would rather have the team suck like the LA Clippers or Minnesota Timberwolves than rather be in the hunt for championship each year. Please....I rather be a fan of team who has a chance each year for a championship and actually WON IT (that's for you Dallas & Phoenix fans) multiple times!!

[ShoogarBear]

Good to know Monroe is in Las Vegas.

Let's see if he can bring some news from the Summer League

Let's hope he gets the address of the building correct.

[peskypesky]

Their execution sucked. They used a first round pick on George Hill? From IUPUI? Give me an effing break!

So players from obscure colleges can't shine in the NBA? This guy might disagree with you:
http://www.nba.com/history/players/archibald_summary.html

[ShoogarBear]

So players from obscure colleges can't shine in the NBA? This guy might disagree with you:
http://www.nba.com/history/players/archibald_summary.html

Actually, UTEP is not a good example, since they had won an NCAA championship just a year or so before Archibald got there.

[peskypesky]

Actually, UTEP is not a good example, since they had won an NCAA championship just a year or so before Archibald got there.

OK, then how about this guy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rodman#Detroit_Pistons

[peskypesky]

and this guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Cheeks

[Tully365]

There are lots of good examples: Willis Reed, Scottie Pippin, Steve Nash. Plus Hill is a special case-- he got recruited by big time colleges but stayed near home for family reasons.

[picnroll]

Jerry Rice

[SenorSpur]

Oh boy....let's go back revisit history. When the Spurs won the championship in 2007, both Pop & R.C said they were going to give the team an opportunity to defend their championship. So they didn't do anything last off-season...but brought every back.

At that time, a lot of people (including myself) thought it was a good move. Keep the core together and give them an opportunity to defend their championship.

Well...how did the season go? They had 56 wins and got to WCF. Okay...so they didn't win another championship. Wow...that can actually happen? Even in Spurs Country!!!!! Yikes!!

Yes...the team did have some offensive droughts and their play look spotty during the regular season. But, the fact they won a game 7 on the road in New Orleans (when they got smashed the first three games in NO) told me a lot about this team.

A championship every year isn't guarantee to anyone (I know that's hard to admit even for some spoiled Spurs fans). But the fact that injuries...had something to do with their performance in the WCF!

Even Lakers knew that Manu wasn't healthy and he would made a difference in the WCF.

Sometimes...the spoiled Spurs fans act like this team has gone from first to worst!! Geesh!!

I'm not saying the FO isn't above criticism. However, when you have won 3 championships in the last 6 years....you get the benefit of the doubt. Also, in the years you didn't win the championship...you got the Western Conference Semis twice & the Western Conference Finals once. That means you were able to maintain a championship contending level team consistently.

I know consistency, productivity, and be always right there in the hunt is (oh my)...boring!!

It seems like some Spurs fans would rather have the team suck like the LA Clippers or Minnesota Timberwolves than rather be in the hunt for championship each year. Please....I rather be a fan of team who has a chance each year for a championship and actually WON IT (that's for you Dallas & Phoenix fans) multiple times!!

I expected some posters to miss the point I'm making here. This isn't to deride the accomplishments of last year's team or to display a lack of appreciation for FO's past decisions that have produced the dynasty that we're fortunate enough to be in. Not at all. Don't confuse criticism wiht a lack of appreciation of success.

This is simply about the FO continuously bristling at criticism from some fans and media, that I believe is fair. A FO that has seemingly been defiant that this team didn't need youth or athleticism on the roster. When you're winning, it's easy to give the rest of the world the "middle finger". Though at some point, age and an eventual decline in sklls catches up to all players. If you're not making an honest, adequate evaluation of the roster talent, the competition will catch up. A couple of bad personnnel decisions and the results can be overwhelming.

All I'm pointing out, is the fact that the FO's decision to address the age and lack of athleticism issue with this roster, was long overdue. I'm thrilled they've finally decided to do so and applaud them for it. I just think it's delusional or hypocrtical of the coaching staff to keep maintaining that the team isn't old, yet the decisions made so far this summer are in direct contrast with their statements.

In other words, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

[ChumpDumper]

But Pop said they were older than dirt. How is that maintaining that they were not old?

[SenorSpur]

But Pop said they were older than dirt. How is that maintaining that they were not old?

I've seen Pop literally bristle during press conferences when asked about the age of his team. He's seemed pretty sensitive about it even.

I was mainly referencing Coach Bud's "pre-rehearsed", defiant comments, that were referenced in the article.

[ChumpDumper]

Pop knows they're old. He just didn't give a shit about it and hates answering stupid questions.

Older teams win. You just can't get too old. As a single-topic poster, one can second-guess all day about when that point is reached.

[Tully365]

I expected some posters to miss the point I'm making here. This isn't to deride the accomplishments of last year's team or to display a lack of appreciation for FO's past decisions that have produced the dynasty that we're fortunate enough to be in. Not at all. Don't confuse criticism wiht a lack of appreciation of success.

This is simply about the FO continuously bristling at criticism from some fans and media, that I believe is fair. A FO that has seemingly been defiant that this team didn't need youth or athleticism on the roster. When you're winning, it's easy to give the rest of the world the "middle finger". Though at some point, age and an eventual decline in sklls catches up to all players. If you're not making an honest, adequate evaluation of the roster talent, the competition will catch up. A couple of bad personnnel decisions and the results can be overwhelming.

All I'm pointing out, is the fact that the FO's decision to address the age and lack of athleticism issue with this roster, was long overdue. I'm thrilled they've finally decided to do so and applaud them for it. I just think it's delusional or hypocrtical of the coaching staff to keep maintaining that the team isn't old, yet the decisions made so far this summer are in direct contrast with their statements.

In other words, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.


Haha! Funny stuff. The Spurs have 5 young guys hoping to make the roster (Hill, Mason, Mahinmi, Hairston, Gist) so maybe it's a case of raining and pissing at the same time! I think letting Barry go was the main sign that getting younger was a priority. I guess running a Front Office will always involve a bit of public relations fudging, slick advertising, and saying things with a wink. I love watching Popovich, because he always seems so exasperated with the questions of reporters-- unlike many other coaches who answer even the dumbest ones as if they were insightful gems...

For the record, SenorSpur, which bothers you more: the actual pissing, or the rain lie being told to cover it up? Tough choice, huh? I hate being lied to, but I've never been a fan of the good ol' honest "hey buddy, I'm pissing on you right now" approach either!

[K-State Spur]

OK, then how about this guy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rodman#Detroit_Pistons

You really don't have to support that claim with names from the distant past.

Anybody who pays any attention (which might exclude tlong) knows that the league has always had numerous effective players who came from unlikely places.

[K-State Spur]

I've seen Pop literally bristle during press conferences when asked about the age of his team.

If Pop thinks the team is not too old, he's going to bristle during press conferences.

If Pop thinks the team is too old, he's going to bristle during press conferences.

His reaction was going to be consistent regardless of his actual feelings, that really doesn't prove anything.

[BOHOLANO#21]

Oh boy....let's go back revisit history. When the Spurs won the championship in 2007, both Pop & R.C said they were going to give the team an opportunity to defend their championship. So they didn't do anything last off-season...but brought every back.

At that time, a lot of people (including myself) thought it was a good move. Keep the core together and give them an opportunity to defend their championship.

Well...how did the season go? They had 56 wins and got to WCF. Okay...so they didn't win another championship. Wow...that can actually happen? Even in Spurs Country!!!!! Yikes!!

Yes...the team did have some offensive droughts and their play look spotty during the regular season. But, the fact they won a game 7 on the road in New Orleans (when they got smashed the first three games in NO) told me a lot about this team.

A championship every year isn't guarantee to anyone (I know that's hard to admit even for some spoiled Spurs fans). But the fact that injuries...had something to do with their performance in the WCF!

Even Lakers knew that Manu wasn't healthy and he would made a difference in the WCF.

Sometimes...the spoiled Spurs fans act like this team has gone from first to worst!! Geesh!!

I'm not saying the FO isn't above criticism. However, when you have won 3 championships in the last 6 years....you get the benefit of the doubt. Also, in the years you didn't win the championship...you got the Western Conference Semis twice & the Western Conference Finals once. That means you were able to maintain a championship contending level team consistently.

I know consistency, productivity, and be always right there in the hunt is (oh my)...boring!!

It seems like some Spurs fans would rather have the team suck like the LA Clippers or Minnesota Timberwolves than rather be in the hunt for championship each year. Please....I rather be a fan of team who has a chance each year for a championship and actually WON IT (that's for you Dallas & Phoenix fans) multiple times!!

agree. as what pop always tell the media before, everytime the SPURS loss they are old as dirt and everytime they win they are a veteran and experienced team.

[Tully365]

agree. as what pop always tell the media before, everytime the SPURS loss they are old as dirt and everytime they win they are a veteran and experienced team.

Yeah-- in the playoffs, when the Spurs blew a 20 point lead, it was proof that they were old. But when the Lakers or the Hornets did the same, they were unfocused. The Spurs sure didn't look old winning game 7 in New Orleans...

[SenorSpur]

Haha! Funny stuff. The Spurs have 5 young guys hoping to make the roster (Hill, Mason, Mahinmi, Hairston, Gist) so maybe it's a case of raining and pissing at the same time! I think letting Barry go was the main sign that getting younger was a priority. I guess running a Front Office will always involve a bit of public relations fudging, slick advertising, and saying things with a wink. I love watching Popovich, because he always seems so exasperated with the questions of reporters-- unlike many other coaches who answer even the dumbest ones as if they were insightful gems...

For the record, SenorSpur, which bothers you more: the actual pissing, or the rain lie being told to cover it up? Tough choice, huh? I hate being lied to, but I've never been a fan of the good ol' honest "hey buddy, I'm pissing on you right now" approach either!

Boy Tully, your question puts me in quite a quandary. I can't decide. Both are equally as offensive and insulting to me. :lol

I fully realize the responses from both the Spurs FO and coaching staff are often very calculaated and usually quite measured. However, there are always exceptions that disprove the rules.

For example, I mean we never thought I'd live to see the day that Pop would implement "small ball" or a zone defense. Which is proof positive that even Pop and his staff have to, at times, adhere to the norms of the NBA.

Getting younger and more athletic was inevitable. We all knew it was coming. It's the passionate denials by the staff that is what kills me.

[Tully365]

Boy Tully, your question puts me in quite a quandary. I can't decide. Both are equally as offensive and insulting to me. :lol

I fully realize the responses from both the Spurs FO and coaching staff are often very calculaated and usually quite measured. However, there are always exceptions that disprove the rules.

For example, I mean we never thought I'd live to see the day that Pop would implement "small ball" or a zone defense. Which is proof positive that even Pop and his staff have to, at times, adhere to the norms of the NBA.

Getting younger and more athletic was inevitable. We all knew it was coming. It's the passionate denials by the staff that is what kills me.

I hear ya-- I think Pop gets a little bit of a sadistic thrill from toying with the media. Actually, I sometimes get that same thrill watching it.

[MarHill]

I expected some posters to miss the point I'm making here. This isn't to deride the accomplishments of last year's team or to display a lack of appreciation for FO's past decisions that have produced the dynasty that we're fortunate enough to be in. Not at all. Don't confuse criticism wiht a lack of appreciation of success.

This is simply about the FO continuously bristling at criticism from some fans and media, that I believe is fair. A FO that has seemingly been defiant that this team didn't need youth or athleticism on the roster. When you're winning, it's easy to give the rest of the world the "middle finger". Though at some point, age and an eventual decline in sklls catches up to all players. If you're not making an honest, adequate evaluation of the roster talent, the competition will catch up. A couple of bad personnnel decisions and the results can be overwhelming.

All I'm pointing out, is the fact that the FO's decision to address the age and lack of athleticism issue with this roster, was long overdue. I'm thrilled they've finally decided to do so and applaud them for it. I just think it's delusional or hypocrtical of the coaching staff to keep maintaining that the team isn't old, yet the decisions made so far this summer are in direct contrast with their statements.

In other words, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.


Senor Spur,

I actually agree with this last post of yours. The Spurs FO are not perfect and deserve legit criticism.

But the criticism I've read since I have blog on Spurstalk. com and especially on local talk radio.....have been over the top and unrealistic. And I thought your previous post when in that direction.

If I misunderstood that post....my apologizes.

However, if Pop & R.C. had decided last summer after winning the '07 championship that they were bringing everybody back to the "give the team a chance to defend their championship"...then the team was going to be a year older.

Of course a championship contending team will get older and you do have to look at your roster and decided what is the next direction for the team. That is legit concern.

Also, the team last year had some offensive droughts and lost some games that they should have won (like the game against the Celtics @ the AT&T Center). But the media and some spoiled Spurs fans was already...putting this team on the deathwatch prematurely.

Look at these records:


1999-00 season 53-29 (1st Round Playoffs)
2000-01 season 58-24 (semis)
2001-02 season 58-24 (semis)
2002-03 season 60-22 (championship
2003-04 season 57-25 (semis)
2004-05 season 59-23 (championship)
2005-06 season 63-19 (semis)
2006-07 season 58-24 (championship)
2007-08 season 56-26 (semis)


That is average of 58 wins in that time span and 3 of those years brought the team championships!!!! And I'm not including the 1999 championship!

So I haven't seen this great drop-off....that a lot of Spurs fans are ready to declare. Now it could happen next year (I hope not) but with a resume like that...I still have to give the FO the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

I'm for legit criticism of the FO. However, I hope that spoiled Spurs fans appreciate this golden age of the franchise. Because it will be gone one day!!

[Marcus Bryant]

I'm for legit criticism of the FO. However, I hope that spoiled Spurs fans appreciate this golden age of the franchise. Because it will be gone one day!!

:tu

The Spurs have been the top performing franchise in any North American pro sports league over the last ten years, and yet some who frequent this board act as though it's been torture. Then again, there are some dumb motherfuckers in this world.

[SenorSpur]

I'm for legit criticism of the FO. However, I hope that spoiled Spurs fans appreciate this golden age of the franchise. Because it will be gone one day!!

:tu :tu

Couldn't agree more. No question about it. I rue the day that Duncan retires.

[MarHill]

:tu

The Spurs have been the top performing franchise in any North American pro sports league over the last ten years, and yet some who frequent this board act as though it's been torture. Then again, there are some dumb motherfuckers in this world.


Thanks Marcus!


That's what I don't get from spoiled Spurs fans!! This franchise (while not perfect) has done an incredible job of being a championship contender and remaining financially sound as well.

I'm glad I'm not a Clippers, Knicks, Timberwolves fan....boy those teams have some real issues! LOL!!:lmao

[MarHill]

:tu :tu

Couldn't agree more. No question about it. I rue the day that Duncan retires.


Senor Spur,


I'm with you about Duncan! That will be tough for me as a fan..not seeing him play basketball anymore for SA.

I have followed his career since he was at Wake Forest! He is my favorite player.

But that day...will come! Just appreciate what has happened and what will continue for at least the next 3-4 years...I hope!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This is going to be the most important summer league I can remember. Two potential rotation players and a total of four players who are good bets to make the team? I'm not going to expect domination but they need to play much, much, much better than Marcus Williams did last year.

Speaking of Williams, he's shooting 11% for the Clippers in their first two games. I guess all those Spurs fans who thought I was being mean when I said he sucked and was a bust after the first summer league game last year will begin to see the light soon . . .

Itd nice and all to pat yourself on the back when your instant evaluation comes to fruition. I still don't put much stock in them.

[SpursFanInAustin]

Senor Spur,

I actually agree with this last post of yours. The Spurs FO are not perfect and deserve legit criticism.

But the criticism I've read since I have blog on Spurstalk. com and especially on local talk radio.....have been over the top and unrealistic. And I thought your previous post when in that direction.

If I misunderstood that post....my apologizes.

However, if Pop & R.C. had decided last summer after winning the '07 championship that they were bringing everybody back to the "give the team a chance to defend their championship"...then the team was going to be a year older.

Of course a championship contending team will get older and you do have to look at your roster and decided what is the next direction for the team. That is legit concern.

Also, the team last year had some offensive droughts and lost some games that they should have won (like the game against the Celtics @ the AT&T Center). But the media and some spoiled Spurs fans was already...putting this team on the deathwatch prematurely.

Look at these records:


1999-00 season 53-29 (1st Round Playoffs)
2000-01 season 58-24 (semis)
2001-02 season 58-24 (semis)
2002-03 season 60-22 (championship
2003-04 season 57-25 (semis)
2004-05 season 59-23 (championship)
2005-06 season 63-19 (semis)
2006-07 season 58-24 (championship)
2007-08 season 56-26 (semis)


That is average of 58 wins in that time span and 3 of those years brought the team championships!!!! And I'm not including the 1999 championship!

So I haven't seen this great drop-off....that a lot of Spurs fans are ready to declare. Now it could happen next year (I hope not) but with a resume like that...I still have to give the FO the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

I'm for legit criticism of the FO. However, I hope that spoiled Spurs fans appreciate this golden age of the franchise. Because it will be gone one day!!

Great post!

Just only wanted to correct this part; The 2001 and 2008 Spurs team reached the Conference Finals, not the semis.

:hat

[MarHill]

Great post!

Just only wanted to correct this part; The 2001 and 2008 Spurs team reached the Conference Finals, not the semis.

:hat


Thanks for correction Spurs Fan In Austin!

They did make the Conference Finals in 2001 & this past season (oops!!).:flag:

[wildbill2u]

The fans' demands for the 'perfect' often overlooks the 'good'.