Who was the Spurs 1st round pick?

[Whisky Dog]

The guy getting owned in summer league?

Nice.

I'm glad I enjoyed the hell out of the last 9 years because it's OVER.

Bad drafts. Can't lure the difference making free agents.

TD might as well retire now.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Why wasn't this made yesterday?

[MannyIsGod]

The guy getting owned in summer league?

Nice.

I'm glad I enjoyed the hell out of the last 9 years because it's OVER.

Bad drafts. Can't lure the difference making free agents.

TD might as well retire now.

:dramaquee

WE'RE DOOMED.

[2centsworth]

this is gay

[SPURSGOAT]

Yea your right, it's over go hang yourself now... fucking idiot!!

[Gino2882]

While ur gonna get flamed for this post, the points are valid. This front office has had some chances to make this team better and simply missed out.

[Spurtacus]

Yeah, we're doomed because a 1st round pick had a bad game. Whatever.

[thekingrobert]

who got owned? Hill had a bad game he took good shots just missed, he also went to the line a good amount of time for a PG

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

While ur gonna get flamed for this post, the points are valid.

Nice to see you also agree that the Spurs run is over.

[2centsworth]

even I, who am one of the loudest critics of the FO am turned off by this thread. It's freakin gay.

[ss1986v2]

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1967/fail1iq2.gif

[SPURSGOAT]

Oh noes Hill is having a bad SL... damn the spurs fo is the worst ever!! Really people need to STFU about this already! It's fucking SUMMER LEAGUE! Not all rookies in Summer league are going to shine. Plenty of rookies have sucked in SL and gone on to good nba careers.

[jayc23]

gino you think you backing this kids going to save him... your a class A scrub whos going to have your foot so far down your throat in a few months.. go diddle your self and let the pros judge talent.. the spurs have some really flaky terrible, uninformed fans for such a class organization.

[Whisky Dog]

Yeah, we're doomed because a 1st round pick had a bad game. Whatever.

I don't remember saying doomed.

And not just this kid. The FO had things set up pretty well mid decade, but the magic touch ran out and many recent decisions and failures will leave the team short on talent outside the top 3. When was the last time the Spurs were looking for summer league kids, not to mention multiple ones, to be contributors in the coming season?

[anakha]

And the cliffjumping starts early this season.

[knee-knee-3]

To answer your question, the Spurs picked George Hill, from IUPUI.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I don't remember saying doomed.


I'm glad I enjoyed the hell out of the last 9 years because it's OVER.
You made a pretty good synonym, that's for sure.

[2centsworth]

I don't remember saying doomed.

And not just this kid. The FO had things set up pretty well mid decade, but the magic touch ran out and many recent decisions and failures will leave the team short on talent outside the top 3. When was the last time the Spurs were looking for summer league kids, not to mention multiple ones, to be contributors in the coming season?


you're all over the place. Right now George Hill is in Summer League and we do not have enough info to decide whether he's going to make it or not. Mixing in a George Hill analysis with FO criticism is retarted. There have been plenty of FO criticism threads, go find them. This is a crappy one to start.

maybe this will help you.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101010&page=7

[Solid D]

The guy getting owned in summer league?

Nice.

I'm glad I enjoyed the hell out of the last 9 years because it's OVER.

Bad drafts. Can't lure the difference making free agents.

TD might as well retire now.


Give a Dog Whiskey and see what happens?

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/adc/10062158B~Scratched-at-Dawn-Posters.jpg

[Lake_show]

0-10 in a SL game is pretty pathetic.

[angelbelow]

The guy getting owned in summer league?

Nice.

I'm glad I enjoyed the hell out of the last 9 years because it's OVER.

Bad drafts. Can't lure the difference making free agents.

TD might as well retire now.

LOL wow. youre free to cheer for another team, but dont come back when we win next year.

[Whisky Dog]

you're all over the place. Right now George Hill is in Summer League and we do not have enough info to decide whether he's going to make it or not. Mixing in a George Hill analysis with FO criticism is retarted. There have been plenty of FO criticism threads, go find them. This is a crappy one to start.

maybe this will help you.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101010&page=7

No, I wanted to start this thread. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

I'll always be a Spurs fan. Always have been. I just see this past season and the current roster as signs that the Spurs are going to put all of their eggs in the 2010 FA basket and will be short on talent until (and a big IF) they score with that plan.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I don't remember saying doomed.



.......... because it's OVER.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't remember saying doomed.


So what you're saying is that you have short term memory loss?

[exstatic]

Sky is FALLING!!!
http://www.wikinomics.com/blog/uploads/disney-chicken-little-sky-falling.jpg

[Whisky Dog]

Doomed implies complete destruction with no chance for success.

I said the Spurs 9 year run of greatness is over because they will not have the talent to legitimately contend the next two seasons.

Big difference.

If the Spurs fan on their big time FA attempt in 2010 then contending will be the farthest thing from any of our minds for a bit.

[Spurtacus]

Doomed implies complete destruction with no chance for success.

I said the Spurs 9 year run of greatness is over because they will not have the talent to legitimately contend the next two seasons.

Big difference.

If the Spurs fan on their big time FA attempt in 2010 then contending will be the farthest thing from any of our minds for a bit.

Someone is reading too much into one word. :rolleyes


I'm glad I enjoyed the hell out of the last 9 years because it's OVER.

We're doomed! :wow

:lol

[Marcus Bryant]

Naturally this thread shows up tonight and not last night. Of course, when fans expect every player to be an All-NBA 1st team member and perfect, this is what you get. I've seen posts in here about ditching Duncan after a bad game. Lay off the sauce.

[exstatic]

Doomed implies complete destruction with no chance for success.

I said the Spurs 9 year run of greatness is over because they will not have the talent to legitimately contend the next two seasons.

Big difference.

If the Spurs fan on their big time FA attempt in 2010 then contending will be the farthest thing from any of our minds for a bit.

The Spurs are title contenders each year that Duncan is on the roster. They'll never be clear favorites or have the talent edge simply because they never have. Under the radar is where they live...until about mid May every year when wonder of wonders, the media discovers they're still playing.

[MannyIsGod]

Doomed implies complete destruction with no chance for success.

I said the Spurs 9 year run of greatness is over because they will not have the talent to legitimately contend the next two seasons.

Big difference.

If the Spurs fan on their big time FA attempt in 2010 then contending will be the farthest thing from any of our minds for a bit.

Do me a favor. Stop trying to dig your way out of a hole. Just admit you made a stupid thread and move on.


WE'RE DOOMED.

[K-State Spur]

Michael Beasley went 1 for 13 in his second summer league game, I'm sure he'll have no impact on the Heat this year...

[MannyIsGod]

Michael Beasley went 1 for 13 in his second summer league game, I'm sure he'll have no impact on the Heat this year...

THE HEAT ARE DOOMED!

[VaSpursFan]

expectations sure are high for a back up pg who will get may 15 mins per game next season. as long as the guy continues to work on his handles and learns to handle the trap better, he'll be fine. i fully expect hill to be better in pre-season after training camp.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Fuck all this hill talk its that Frenchie Iaan Mahinmi that is worrying me above anything else.

Hill could have one prosthetic leg, cataracts, constant muscle spasms, and brittle bone disease and still be a more efficient and capable point guard than Beno fucking Udrih: a player that garnered himself Rookie of the Month during December, and played worse every game of his life with us thereafter.

Ian on the other hand, seems to be, how do i put this nicely, SOFT, and UNASSERTIVE, erm, lets just say he is lacking in an area you can't teach.
And that is what worries me.

[anakha]

Doomed implies complete destruction with no chance for success.

I said the Spurs 9 year run of greatness is over because they will not have the talent to legitimately contend the next two seasons.

Big difference.


Arguing semantics now? Very Clinton-esque of you. :lol

[Whisky Dog]

Not just Hill that's disappointing.

Mahinmi also disappointing.

A roster with no real proven offensive punch outside the top 3.

You can be a fan and not like the direction the team is heading towards.

Some of you people are a bit too Nazi-like for my taste.

Tough crowd... But it doesnt matter. I call it the way I see it no matter what anyone thinks.

[ShoogarBear]

Fuck all this hill talk its that Frenchie Iaan Mahinmi that is worrying me above anything else.

Hill could have one prosthetic leg, cataracts, constant muscle spasms, and brittle bone disease and still be a more efficient and capable point guard than Beno fucking Udrih: a player that garnered himself Rookie of the Month during December, and played worse every game of his life with us thereafter.

Ian on the other hand, seems to be, how do i put this nicely, SOFT, and UNASSERTIVE, erm, lets just say he is lacking in an area you can't teach.
And that is what worries me.

I think Ian's lack of ass is going to be an issue in the Association.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's the fucking summerleagues. Crap players can look like superstars and superstars can look like crap. Not that I expect Hill to be a star, but I think he will be exactly what the Spurs want him to be next season, which is a capable backup NBA point.

[Whisky Dog]

Splitter not coming really ruined this team's front court going forward.

No real backup 2 for Manu or 3 for Bruce.

No real big man depth.

Possibly a weak rookie backup PG.

Another incredibly weak bench in terms of offense, this time no Barry to hit threes.

How can anyone like the makeup of this team?

[Gino2882]

I really don't understand the blatant jumping each camp is showing here. Those who feel George Hill wasn't the best pick are entitled to their opinion, and feel justified after he has two, well lets say, mediocre games. Those who like the pick keep crying at the fact it is summer league and only two games.

Not a goddamn one of you wanted the Spurs to draft George Hill. Just admit it. There isn't one of you. This does not mean he is not a good player, or won't be a good player.

It really pisses me off when you homers side with the Front Office simply because they are the "experts". The same experts who made several dumbass mistakes and the same ones who have made some great moves.

This is a message board. People are entitled to their opinions.

While I am in NO WAY rooting against George Hill (it obvious Pop feels there is a role for him in 2008), there is a simply another group of people who felt he was not a good pick.

To me it doesn't matter if he goes for 40 points tomorrow. I simply felt on draft day that Donte Greene was the better pick. Greene filled exactly what the Spurs have needed. Big-time scorer with tremendous 3pt range and excellent size at the SF position. However, they drafted a small school combo guard.

Up to you homers. Keep bashing those feel Pop and RC can do no wrong, the list is obvious. This team will be ONE OF THE BEST, as long as Tim Duncan 21 and Tony Parker 9 are running the show.

Now hopefully everyone can take a step back and all have a common rooting interest in George Hill. George Hill is a Spur, not Donte Greene, not CDR, not Chalmers, hell, not even Bill Walker. I for one hope George Hill is a great backup PG, and I hope that Hairston can be a good 2guard for this team. But, rooting for them, DOES NOT change the fact I felt Donte Greene and Bill Walker were superior players...

[Spurs da champs]

Darrel Arthur was avaliable but they had to pick a nobody, Hell even Mario Chalmers was avaiable.

[anakha]

Has there been anyone who has posted in this thread defending the FO?

All I'm seeing are posts deriding one guy for going overboard in his OP.

Save your rants against 'homers' for people who really are.

[MannyIsGod]

Not just Hill that's disappointing.

Mahinmi also disappointing.

A roster with no real proven offensive punch outside the top 3.

You can be a fan and not like the direction the team is heading towards.

Some of you people are a bit too Nazi-like for my taste.

Tough crowd... But it doesnt matter. I call it the way I see it no matter what anyone thinks.

Nazi like? So because you come out and make a stupid statement after 2 games of summer league we're Nazi like?

How about this: How about its not anything to do with us but everything to do with you. No one here is Nazi like, you're just a fucking moron.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I really don't understand the blatant jumping each camp is showing here. Those who feel George Hill wasn't the best pick are entitled to their opinion, and feel justified after he has two, well lets say, mediocre games. Those who like the pick keep crying at the fact it is summer league and only two games.

Not a goddamn one of you wanted the Spurs to draft George Hill. Just admit it. There isn't one of you. This does not mean he is not a good player, or won't be a good player.

It really pisses me off when you homers side with the Front Office simply because they are the "experts". The same experts who made several dumbass mistakes and the same ones who have made some great moves.

This is a message board. People are entitled to their opinions.

While I am in NO WAY rooting against George Hill (it obvious Pop feels there is a role for him in 2008), there is a simply another group of people who felt he was not a good pick.

To me it doesn't matter if he goes for 40 points tomorrow. I simply felt on draft day that Donte Greene was the better pick. Greene filled exactly what the Spurs have needed. Big-time scorer with tremendous 3pt range and excellent size at the SF position. However, they drafted a small school combo guard.

Up to you homers. Keep bashing those feel Pop and RC can do no wrong, the list is obvious. This team will be ONE OF THE BEST, as long as Tim Duncan 21 and Tony Parker 9 are running the show.

Now hopefully everyone can take a step back and all have a common rooting interest in George Hill. George Hill is a Spur, not Donte Greene, not CDR, not Chalmers, hell, not even Bill Walker. I for one hope George Hill is a great backup PG, and I hope that Hairston can be a good 2guard for this team. But, rooting for them, DOES NOT change the fact I felt Donte Greene and Bill Walker were superior players...


:violin
Move on.

[MannyIsGod]

I really don't understand the blatant jumping each camp is showing here. Those who feel George Hill wasn't the best pick are entitled to their opinion, and feel justified after he has two, well lets say, mediocre games. Those who like the pick keep crying at the fact it is summer league and only two games.

Not a goddamn one of you wanted the Spurs to draft George Hill. Just admit it. There isn't one of you. This does not mean he is not a good player, or won't be a good player.

It really pisses me off when you homers side with the Front Office simply because they are the "experts". The same experts who made several dumbass mistakes and the same ones who have made some great moves.

This is a message board. People are entitled to their opinions.

While I am in NO WAY rooting against George Hill (it obvious Pop feels there is a role for him in 2008), there is a simply another group of people who felt he was not a good pick.

To me it doesn't matter if he goes for 40 points tomorrow. I simply felt on draft day that Donte Greene was the better pick. Greene filled exactly what the Spurs have needed. Big-time scorer with tremendous 3pt range and excellent size at the SF position. However, they drafted a small school combo guard.

Up to you homers. Keep bashing those feel Pop and RC can do no wrong, the list is obvious. This team will be ONE OF THE BEST, as long as Tim Duncan 21 and Tony Parker 9 are running the show.

Now hopefully everyone can take a step back and all have a common rooting interest in George Hill. George Hill is a Spur, not Donte Greene, not CDR, not Chalmers, hell, not even Bill Walker. I for one hope George Hill is a great backup PG, and I hope that Hairston can be a good 2guard for this team. But, rooting for them, DOES NOT change the fact I felt Donte Greene and Bill Walker were superior players...

No one cares that you don't like Hill. Thats all fine. No one has to approve of anything.

But when people point at ONE summer league game and go LOOK LOOK HE SUCKED TONIGHT SO HE"S GOING TO SUCK IN THE NBA people are going to point out how fucking stupid they are and rightfully so.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yes, how can we like a front office that built the supporting cast that's resulted in 4 championships? As for "homer", so what? This isn't science. It's a game. Summerleague games are summerleague games. Only hyperventilating bitches and the perpetually moody ones worry about an off game by a rookie. I thought I'd never see the day that Spurs fans would be so fucking bitter after the franchise had a run like it did over the last decade. Guess I was wrong. If the Spurs really bother you this much pull the trigger already.

[SequSpur]

Naturally this thread shows up tonight and not last night. Of course, when fans expect every player to be an All-NBA 1st team member and perfect, this is what you get. I've seen posts in here about ditching Duncan after a bad game. Lay off the sauce.

he is just late with his assessment, so of you all take a long ass time to realize something because of the man love for Pop.

[SequSpur]

Fuck all this hill talk its that Frenchie Iaan Mahinmi that is worrying me above anything else.

Hill could have one prosthetic leg, cataracts, constant muscle spasms, and brittle bone disease and still be a more efficient and capable point guard than Beno fucking Udrih: a player that garnered himself Rookie of the Month during December, and played worse every game of his life with us thereafter.

Ian on the other hand, seems to be, how do i put this nicely, SOFT, and UNASSERTIVE, erm, lets just say he is lacking in an area you can't teach.
And that is what worries me.

exactly...

[2centsworth]

any thread that can almost get me to side with Marcus Bryant has got to be one of the worst threads ever.

[K-State Spur]

Darrel Arthur was avaliable but they had to pick a nobody, Hell even Mario Chalmers was avaiable.

both arthur and chalmers have had some terrible terrible games in the past 2 years.

hell, chalmers for being so "clutch" went 1 for 8 in the jayhawks biggest game 2 years ago, blowing numerous layups.

[K-State Spur]

I felt Donte Greene and Bill Walker were superior players...

Bill Walker went 0-14 in a COLLEGE game this past year against a team that he should have matched up well with.

[nil.ball]

only too games, i mean wait for a year to judge?
it's like giving someone a final grade the second day of the semester?

wtf

and i am not even a g hill fan

[anakha]

You know a thread has devolved when a non-Spur fan feels the need to step in and be the voice of reason. :lol

[Whisky Dog]

Nazi like? So because you come out and make a stupid statement after 2 games of summer league we're Nazi like?

How about this: How about its not anything to do with us but everything to do with you. No one here is Nazi like, you're just a fucking moron.

yes, Nazi-like. As in making personal attacks and insults against someone who doesnt share your view point.

Can also be called childish, immature, etc.

You can keep insulting me all you want because it makes no difference, but any words you type can't change the apparent fact that you have a lot of growing up to do, friend.

[Whisky Dog]

A lot of you are missing the point. Hill is just the tip of the iceburg. Mahinmi looks physically and mentally unable to be an effective NBA player.

Then look past summer league and to the current roster. Where is the scoring boost to fix the problem that doomed the Spurs in the '08 playoffs going to come from? Where is there going to be any offense on the bench at all?

The Hill comment to start the thread was accurate, but just the attention grabber. The FO had a really good streak going for a while that got results. Unfortunately that streak ended after 2003 and the Spurs are severely lacking any offensive punch because of it. With the decision to not give contracts on role players going past 2010 the Spurs have crippled the team for 2 seasons.

[SequSpur]

A lot of you are missing the point. Hill is just the tip of the iceburg. Mahinmi looks physically and mentally unable to be an effective NBA player.

Then look past summer league and to the current roster. Where is the scoring boost to fix the problem that doomed the Spurs in the '08 playoffs going to come from? Where is there going to be any offense on the bench at all?

The Hill comment to start the thread was accurate, but just the attention grabber. The FO had a really good streak going for a while that got results. Unfortunately that streak ended after 2003 and the Spurs are severely lacking any offensive punch because of it. With the decision to not give contracts on role players going past 2010 the Spurs have crippled the team for 2 seasons.


dude most get it, but since the forum is called the spurs.. they think they have to go Stan Kelly all the time and say "Bring em back"

Its typical....

[Marcus Bryant]

Damn. If it's that bad, you might as well leave.

[Whisky Dog]

Damn. If it's that bad, you might as well leave.

Already told you... Always will be a Spurs fan. Good times or bad.

Nice to see the "If it's bad just give up" attitude from several of you here. That's a great attitude to have.

Oh...


Any thoughts of where the offense is coming from next season?

[Marcus Bryant]

So these are the 'bad times'?

[td4mvp21]

Well I think he's entitled to think Hill and Ian aren't going to work out, there isn't anything wrong with that. I don't think we are doomed though :lol Give them more time and wait until they play in actual NBA games too.

[MannyIsGod]

yes, Nazi-like. As in making personal attacks and insults against someone who doesnt share your view point.

Can also be called childish, immature, etc.

You can keep insulting me all you want because it makes no difference, but any words you type can't change the apparent fact that you have a lot of growing up to do, friend.

:lol

Oh I'm sorry? Is THAT what the Nazis did? Silly me, I figured you'd have to be a bit more horrible in order to attain Nazi status.

Carry on, dumbass.

[jayc23]

Dude there is a problem when there is 3 threads a day pushing your opinion on the forums in a tasteless manner

[Whisky Dog]

Dude there is a problem when there is 3 threads a day pushing your opinion on the forums in a tasteless manner

Dude, this is the 1st thread I've started since before the WCF. I'm hardly ever on here.

What exactly have I said that's tasteless? I haven't cursed or insulted anyone. Any opinion that differs from yours isn't automatically tasteless, you poor, misguided, ignorant soul.

[Whisky Dog]

:lol

Oh I'm sorry? Is THAT what the Nazis did? Silly me, I figured you'd have to be a bit more horrible in order to attain Nazi status.

Carry on, dumbass.

Hyperbole.

[anakha]

Hyperbole.

Just like your first post in this thread was, right?

[ChumpDumper]

I used to think the average spurfan was intelligent.

[jayc23]

no f'ing segu homo posted a "BIG MISTAKE POST" in like the first quarter of summer league, of hill's first game... seriously I wonder what it would be like to have a PIGS brain... and your post title and response had a mocking implication to hill.... but you had valid points ..

[Bruno]

While playing bad in SL doesn't mean that you will be a bad NBA players, it still hints what the future will be.

Spurs have drafted George Hill over players that was rated higher by almost every one. Arthur, Greene, Chalmers and CDR have all been better than Hill. It's not a good sign.

Mahinmi has been drafted 3 years ago by Spurs and after one full year with Spurs, he appears as an average SL player It's not a good sign.

While Spurs needed to re-load their roster, Spurs have used most of their MLE Roger Mason. It's not a good sign.


We can all hide ourselves behind "the summer is still long, Spurs will still do some moves" and "SL means nothing". Truth is that this offseason doesn't look like a good one. Things can change but I'm not confident about Spurs' chance to win it all next year when I see what happens this summer.

[rascal]

Not just Hill that's disappointing.

Mahinmi also disappointing.

A roster with no real proven offensive punch outside the top 3.

You can be a fan and not like the direction the team is heading towards.

Some of you people are a bit too Nazi-like for my taste.

Tough crowd... But it doesnt matter. I call it the way I see it no matter what anyone thinks.

Agree that the fo has brought in little talent the last few years and the results are that they will need contributions this year out of low draft pick unproven rookies and career backups getting rotation minutes(Mason).

[Mr. Body]

While playing bad in SL doesn't mean that you will be a bad NBA players, it still hints what the future will be.

Spurs have drafted George Hill over players that was rated higher by almost every one. Arthur, Greene, Chalmers and CDR have all been better than Hill. It's not a good sign.

Mahinmi has been drafted 3 years ago by Spurs and after one full year with Spurs, he appears as an average SL player It's not a good sign.

While Spurs needed to re-load their roster, Spurs have used most of their MLE Roger Mason. It's not a good sign.


We can all hide ourselves behind "the summer is still long, Spurs will still do some moves" and "SL means nothing". Truth is that this offseason doesn't look like a good one. Things can change but I'm not confident about Spurs' chance to win it all next year when I see what happens this summer.


Agree 100%. Drafting Hill where they did could be as big a blunder as trading Scola. We'll imagine the Argentinian and Donte Greene or someone else coming off the bench for years to come. All is not settled but my feelings this team may be worse than last year are getting realized.

[GrandeDavid]

The simple fact that Popovich praised Hill so much on draft night gives me all the confidence I need in this kid. I don't care if he goes 0-10 again in Summer League play. The Spurs coaches know what they are doing and this guy will be fine. You guys have no clue if he's ailing or if the coaches are overloading him with information early on and its causing him to be out of sync. Whatever. But come November, Hill will be a better player. He's got defensive instincts, quickness, athleticism and a will to learn and win. He will be taught, he will practice, he will be mentored, he will get good.

[mrspurs]

Oh noes Hill is having a bad SL... damn the spurs fo is the worst ever!! Really people need to STFU about this already! It's fucking SUMMER LEAGUE! Not all rookies in Summer league are going to shine. Plenty of rookies have sucked in SL and gone on to good nba careers.

ive made it down the list so far(pg 1)...and your the only mouth that hasnt been brushed yet...relax goat your making yourself look unsanitary..maybe i should cover up my cup of coffee so it dont get all that nasty your typing....

[kobyz]

we was needed to do that: draft Green with the 26 pick, keep Dragic and draft Gist

[mrspurs]

Splitter not coming really ruined this team's front court going forward.

No real backup 2 for Manu or 3 for Bruce.

No real big man depth.

Possibly a weak rookie backup PG.

Another incredibly weak bench in terms of offense, this time no Barry to hit threes.

How can anyone like the makeup of this team?

only girls and clowns wear makeup.....i didnt see many in last nights game..i see a bunch in here..

[mrspurs]

it isnt the thread makers who need baby bottles....its alot of the readers who needum, and not with booze in them........you can smell the alcohol in some of the way ppl. type in here.....sure am happy my days of changing diapers ended yrs ago....

[Whisky Dog]

Just like your first post in this thread was, right?

Regarding Hill - very much so. An attention grabber that apparently worked. I think Hill will be servicable, but not as good or with the offensive punch of Greene.

I know the Spurs have drafted late in rounds since 2003, but really they did before 2003 as well and found some great assets.

Since then it has been

2003 - traded pick that was future 6th man of year Barbosa for nothing. Completely wiffed on big FA.
2004 - Beno. Not currently on roster.
2005 - Mahinmi. Still unknown, but not looking very good right now. Verdict still out. Also, additional 1st obtained from Suns traded for Nazr.
2006 - Other 1st traded for Nazr.
2007 - Splitter

Then, throw in giving Scola away for absolutely nothing and you have some big time failures by this organization starting in 2003. No FO will make every right decision, but there have been a lot of horrible ones lately.

Imagine how much better the Spurs would potentially be if you just take back the Scola blunder and redo just the last 2 1st round picks?

[Marcus Bryant]

So we should have expected the Spurs to pay about $15 mil in salary, luxury tax and forgone lux tax distributions to bring in Scola?

[2centsworth]

So we should have expected the Spurs to pay about $15 mil in salary, luxury tax and forgone lux tax distributions to bring in Scola?

no where near that if we don't resign bonner.

[Whisky Dog]

Or Oberto. Now, I like Oberto, but I would rather have Scola's offense and still fairly capable defense and passing next to TD.

[Marcus Bryant]

no where near that if we don't resign bonner.

Then it would be $12 mil.

[2centsworth]

Then it would be $12 mil.

so signing Scola for the same contract we signed bonner would have cost the spurs $12 mil. Yeah right.

[Marcus Bryant]

so signing Scola for the same contract we signed bonner would have cost the spurs $12 mil. Yeah right.

...and not moving Butler's contract, being exposed to the luxury tax on the player salary above the threshold, and missing out on the lux tax distribution from last year ($4 mil)? Uh, yeah.

[manufor3]

ya it ALL over :rolleyes

[2centsworth]

...and not moving Butler's contract, being exposed to the luxury tax on the player salary above the threshold, and missing out on the lux tax distribution from last year ($4 mil)? Uh, yeah.

still doesn't add up, but granted the cash is substantial. The biggest travesty is that our FO didn't have the foresight of two years and signed Butler. Are you telling me your finance manager (RC) didn't know this would have been a problem. I would fire my freakin financial advisor in a heartbeat. Jackie butler cost the spurs $15 mil:ihit .

[Marcus Bryant]

They needed a starting center after they dealt Nesterovic and let Mohammed walk in free agency back in '06. As much as Spurs fans bitch about minor player contracts how would they have handled themselves after the Spurs doled out $30 mil over 4 to Mohammed or Pryzbilla or whoever?

Jackie Butler would have cost the Spurs that much if they hadn't made the deal. Instead he cost them Scola.

[anakha]

still doesn't add up, but granted the cash is substantial. The biggest travesty is that our FO didn't have the foresight of two years and signed Butler. Are you telling me your finance manager (RC) didn't know this would have been a problem. I would fire my freakin financial advisor in a heartbeat. Jackie butler cost the spurs $15 mil:ihit .

Weren't the vast majority of the reactions to Butler's signing positive back then?

I distinctly remember timvp saying words to the effect of him being more excited about signing Butler than signing Elson, simply because of Butler's potential.

If that were indeed the case, then it's mostly on Butler that he didn't live up to his potential.

[rascal]

They needed a starting center after they dealt Nesterovic and let Mohammed walk in free agency back in '06. As much as Spurs fans bitch about minor player contracts how would they have handled themselves after the Spurs doled out $30 mil over 4 to Mohammed or Pryzbilla or whoever?

Jackie Butler would have cost the Spurs that much if they hadn't made the deal. Instead he cost them Scola.

There were a lot of bad decisions with these players.

[Marcus Bryant]

There were a lot of bad decisions with these players.

Replacing a David Robinson isn't easy. Spurs still found a way to win 2 titles without him though.

[2centsworth]

Weren't the vast majority of the reactions to Butler's signing positive back then?

I distinctly remember timvp saying words to the effect of him being more excited about signing Butler than signing Elson, simply because of Butler's potential.

If that were indeed the case, then it's mostly on Butler that he didn't live up to his potential.

two things, a financial advisor can tell you what type of situation you're going to be in when you sign a player. Butler, who was an unproven talent, put the spurs in a multim million dollar pickle. He was not worth it at all, truly no unproven talent is worth that much money. That falls flat on the shoulders of the FO.


Secondly, people liking Butler's talent is different than analyzing his cost.

[rascal]

Replacing a David Robinson isn't easy. Spurs still found a way to win 2 titles without him though.


It wasn't because of the centers that they brought in. Many of them ended up being benched because they didn't work out. Had any of those centers been any good they would still be with the spurs who still need a quality starting center.

[2centsworth]

Replacing a David Robinson isn't easy. Spurs still found a way to win 2 titles without him though.

they won it because of the big 4 and mostly TIM DUNCAN. The FO responsible for that big 4 is no longer here. Instead we're left with RC "Jackie Butler" Buford.

[Marcus Bryant]

So paying Nesterovic $23.5 mil over the next 3 seasons was preferable?

[Marcus Bryant]

It wasn't because of the centers that they brought in. Many of them ended up being benched because they didn't work out. Had any of those centers been any good they would still be with the spurs who still need a quality starting center.

Oberto definitely contributed in the '07 Finals.

[Marcus Bryant]

they won it because of the big 4 and mostly TIM DUNCAN. The FO responsible for that big 4 is no longer here. Instead we're left with RC "Jackie Butler" Buford.

ROFL.

[2centsworth]

Replacing a David Robinson isn't easy. Spurs still found a way to win 2 titles without him though.

yeah, we're going to replace DRob the Hall of Famer and 1st pick in the draft with scrubs. Spurs were in prefect position to add talent instead, but didn't.

[rascal]

So paying Nesterovic $23.5 mil over the next 3 seasons was preferable?

No They should have never gotten Rasho in the first place.

[2centsworth]

ROFL.

so I guess all the FO people that have left the organization had nothing to do with it. :lol

[2centsworth]

No They should have never gotten Rasho in the first place.

they needed Rasho for Shaq, period.

[Marcus Bryant]

yeah, we're going to replace DRob the Hall of Famer and 1st pick in the draft with scrubs. Spurs were in prefect position to add talent instead, but didn't.

What position? They were shopping for a center with the MLE.

Nesterovic, Mohammed, and Oberto were also brought in post-DRob.

Again, you are assuming perfect foresight and the Spurs not trying to address needs today. Plus it wasn't even settled that Scola would be able to get out of his deal, or that he wouldn't just re-up with Tau.

[Marcus Bryant]

so I guess all the FO people that have left the organization had nothing to do with it. :lol

You said they were entirely responsible, which is absurd.

[Marcus Bryant]

No They should have never gotten Rasho in the first place.

Then who was going to play the 5 after DRob retired? Jay Howard?

:wtf

[2centsworth]

You said they were entirely responsible, which is absurd.

never said entirely, but judging the performance of who's left compared to the performance before the departures, I would have to say RC is a weak link.

[2centsworth]

What position? They were shopping for a center with the MLE.

Nesterovic, Mohammed, and Oberto were also brought in post-DRob.

Again, you are assuming perfect foresight and the Spurs not trying to address needs today. Plus it wasn't even settled that Scola would be able to get out of his deal, or that he wouldn't just re-up with Tau.

They only time the spurs had a need for a center was to defend Shaq. Otherwise, any Oberto type would have done with Tim Duncan.Just to add to this, Udonis Haslem would have been sweet next to Tim.

[rascal]

Then who was going to play the 5 after DRob retired? Jay Howard?

:wtf

I'd have to go back and see who was availble at the time but I would not have settled with rasho for what they paid him. They should have gone after R Wallce when he was available or make some type of other trade to bring in a solid front court player to replace Robinson. Rasho was not their only option, it was the option they chose to make.

[anakha]

two things, a financial advisor can tell you what type of situation you're going to be in when you sign a player. Butler, who was an unproven talent, put the spurs in a multim million dollar pickle. He was not worth it at all, truly no unproven talent is worth that much money. That falls flat on the shoulders of the FO.


Secondly, people liking Butler's talent is different than analyzing his cost.

Spurs salaries for the 2006-2007 season:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/basketball/nba/nbasalaries2007.html

Spurs salaries for the 2007-2008 season:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/basketball/nba/nbasalaries.html

Feel free to disagree, but given how much Butler was being paid (3 years/$7M, I believe), I almost think that Barry's contract was more of an albatross on the Spurs, cap-wise, than Butler's was.