Delfino to Khimki (Russia)

[Penya]

8'5 M € in 3 years. (Almost 5M$ per year) :wow

He will not play EuroLeague.

[kolko]

link?

[freddy79]

Where did you take this new? I watched in Khimki official site, around the web, but nothing appeared...

[Bruno]

The source of that info is a reliable poster from InterBasket message board. If I remember well this poster is in fact Jonathan Givony form draftexpress.

[freddy79]

So, this is just a rumor...no online newspaper talks about that...8,5 millions euros are A LOT of money, for Europe...almost 3 millions euros x year (6 with taxes).

[Bruno]

So, this is just a rumor...no online newspaper talks about that...

It's more than a rumor. Givony is generally accurate at reporting euro-signing.



8,5 millions euros are A LOT of money, for Europe...almost 3 millions euros x year (6 with taxes).

Russian teams have a lot of money and taxes in Russia are low. €3M should cost something like €4M with taxes to the team.

[freddy79]

It's more than a rumor. Givony is generally accurate at reporting euro-signing.



Russian teams have a lot of money and taxes in Russia are low. €3M should cost something like €4M with taxes to the team.

I don't know about Givony, but I know about Russia and Europe (I'm Italian). Believe me: 3M Euros (NOT dollars) are A LOT OF MONEY for a basketball team in Europe, even if Khimki is rich: they have other 11 players to pay...anyway, that's NOT official (let's watch in ALL European, Russian, American, or at least Argentinian newspapers: they don't say a word). Yesterday, in a press conference, Delfino said nothing about that...Khimki doesn't even play Euroleague. There are teams that next year will play Euroleague, that can take him at similar prices (Panathinaikos, CSKA, Olympiakos). If he comes back to Europe, I think he'll try to go to these teams. Anyway, everything could happen: I don't say he cannot go, but I would wait it becoming official...

[Penya]

The source of that info is a reliable poster from InterBasket message board. If I remember well this poster is in fact Jonathan Givony form draftexpress.

Exactly.

Khimki (or Khymki, sp?) has also offered a big contract to Garbajosa, 2'8M € per year:wow : http://www.sport.es/default.asp?idpublicacio_PK=44&idioma=CAS&idnoticia_PK=527357&idseccio_PK=808 .

[sendman]

Reds are coming!:lmao

[freddy79]

There is a big gas company backing Khimki (that's the exact way of writing, I found in Wikipedia, even if somebody writes Khimky)...they already took Palacio, Moiso and Lampe (last year). Maybe they could make a super-team (for Europe) and contending against CSKA in Russian League...

[Sissiborgo]

is he gone?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

In Soviet Russia, taxes pay you!

:lol

[Bruno]

I don't know about Givony, but I know about Russia and Europe (I'm Italian). Believe me: 3M Euros (NOT dollars) are A LOT OF MONEY for a basketball team in Europe, even if Khimki is rich: they have other 11 players to pay...anyway, that's NOT official (let's watch in ALL European, Russian, American, or at least Argentinian newspapers: they don't say a word). Yesterday, in a press conference, Delfino said nothing about that...Khimki doesn't even play Euroleague. There are teams that next year will play Euroleague, that can take him at similar prices (Panathinaikos, CSKA, Olympiakos). If he comes back to Europe, I think he'll try to go to these teams. Anyway, everything could happen: I don't say he cannot go, but I would wait it becoming official...

I know that's a lot of money and that's why other team can't pay him as much. I'm not sure Panathinaikos or Olympiacos were ready to give him €2.8M per year.

Russian teams have a lot of money and can give crazy salaries to players. Last year, Dynamo Moscow signed Javtokas to a €3M/2 years salary after he had a crappy season in Greece. One month ago, Khimki has signed Moiso to a €2M/1 year contract.

[mrspurs]

well then....goodbye

[hater]

then he will bang mad hot russian chicks. lucky

[SKINNYPIMP210]

then he will bang mad hot russian chicks. lucky

+1 :hitit:

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I say before here Russian teams is richest of all. The big Russian teams is owned by Russia government and oil barons. Richest sports owners in world is in these big Russian clubs.

[kolko]

His agent said that Delfino will choose today which offer he accepts, between Detroit Pistons, Olympiakos and Khimki.

[freddy79]

His agent said that Delfino will choose today which offer he accepts, between Detroit Pistons, Olympiakos and Khimki.

So, it's not yet done...even if Khimki gives him more money, I think that, if he wants to come back to Europe, he has to go to Olympiakos: after all, they'll do Euroleague, and I don't think that their offer would be less good by far (a couple of millions euros for sure, maybe more...). But he's a great competitor: after four NBA years, it would be in some way a defeat coming back to Europe, after his better NBA season...in percentage, I would say 40% Khimki (more money, after all...), 30% Olympiakos, 30% Pistons...

[freddy79]

According to Argentinian newspapers, NOW the deal's done: Delfino will play the next 3 years with Khimki. About contract, they talk about 30 million dollars x 3 years (7,3 millions after taxes), more than Manuel Ginobili, and I think even more of what they said in the beginning of this story (2,8 million euros is less than 7,3 million dollars, assuming that they were talking about 2,8 million euros after taxes). Detroit was offering 12 millions in 3 years (and I think that, after all, THIS is his value in the US market), far less money. They're also talking about a NBA escape after every year of contract (but, at these numbers, WHO can only imagine to take him). I want to say only that: if the bigger European teams can offer for Delfino an amount of money that is more than Manu's contract, very soon they could take also players of Manu's value, and not only the midrange level players...and this contract is "only" the third most European expensive (Papaloukas and Jasikevicius earn more money).

[freddy79]

7,3 millions after taxes x year, of course (anyway more than 2,8 million euros).

[timvp]

No way Delfino got 7.3M per year. That's the total of the three years.

[angelbelow]

well if we couldnt have him i have no problem with him not joining the pistons.

[freddy79]

No way Delfino got 7.3M per year. That's the total of the three years.

That's not a creation of my mind: I'm taking this new from http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=1031276
http://espanol.news.yahoo.com/s/17072008/92/n-sports-1031276-delfino-acept-jugar-rusia-ganar-m-s-gin.html
http://www.clarin.com/diario/2008/07/18/deportes/d-06410.htm

If you're able to read Spanish, then read all these articles: they explain well all the whole thing...there's also an interview of Carlos: he talks about playing time (come on Carlos: it's all about BIG BUCKS...:lol:lol:lol), but I think that, at this amount of money, NOBODY could even think to refuse...

[timvp]

That's not a creation of my mind: I'm taking this new from http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=1031276
http://espanol.news.yahoo.com/s/17072008/92/n-sports-1031276-delfino-acept-jugar-rusia-ganar-m-s-gin.html
http://www.clarin.com/diario/2008/07/18/deportes/d-06410.htm

If you're able to read Spanish, then read all these articles: they explain well all the whole thing...there's also an interview of Carlos: he talks about playing time (come on Carlos: it's all about BIG BUCKS...:lol:lol:lol), but I think that, at this amount of money, NOBODY could even think to refuse...I'm pretty sure that's wrong because Papaloukas and Jasikevicius got deals between 4 and 5M, IRRC. 7.3M would be by far the biggest deal in Europe.

[Bruno]

It's still quite remote but there is a significant risk that top NBA players go overseas in the future.

In NBA, salaries are based on the BRI (basketball related income). A player's salary depends on TV contracts, tickets sales, jersey sales...

In Europe (not in all countries), a player's salary depends on how rich is the owner. For some owners, a basketball team isn't a business but a hobby, they don't really care about losing money with it.

So it's apple and orange and the NBA could depend in the future on "how much money some euro billionaire are ready to spend on their hobby ?"
For the moment, it's no too worrisome for the NBA but things can goes very quickly with billionaires.

[freddy79]

I'm pretty sure that's wrong because Papaloukas and Jasikevicius got deals between 4 and 5M, IRRC. 7.3M would be by far the biggest deal in Europe.

Maybe I explained badly the thing: he will take 7.3 million DOLLARS after taxes (10 million dollars with), not Euros. I don't know exactly how many million Euros are 7.3 million dollars, but I think that they're more than 2.8 million Euros. From what I know, Papaloukas and Jasikevicius take between 4 and 5 million Euros after taxes (and that would be MORE than 7.3 million Dollars).

[AnotherArgie]

In Europe (not in all countries), a player's salary depends on how rich is the owner. For some owners, a basketball team isn't a business but a hobby, they don't really care about losing money with it.


Sounds like Mark Cuban to me.

[timvp]

Maybe I explained badly the thing: he will take 7.3 million DOLLARS after taxes (10 million dollars with), not Euros. I don't know exactly how many million Euros are 7.3 million dollars, but I think that they're more than 2.8 million Euros. From what I know, Papaloukas and Jasikevicius take between 4 and 5 million Euros after taxes (and that would be MORE than 7.3 million Dollars).Ah okay so he'll be making 4.3M Euros ... that is more reasonable. Not sure why they'd target Delfino with that amount of money but sounds like Delfino got a good deal.

[freddy79]

It's still quite remote but there is a significant risk that top NBA players go overseas in the future.

In NBA, salaries are based on the BRI (basketball related income). A player's salary depends on TV contracts, tickets sales, jersey sales...

In Europe (not in all countries), a player's salary depends on how rich is the owner. For some owners, a basketball team isn't a business but a hobby, they don't really care about losing money with it.

So it's apple and orange and the NBA could depend in the future on "how much money some euro billionaire are ready to spend on their hobby ?"
For the moment, it's no too worrisome for the NBA but things can goes very quickly with billionaires.


It's all about economy, and money, I guess...of course, in this moment there are not more than 5-6 teams that can pay these money (mainly in Russia, Greece and Spain: I'm Italian, and, even if Italian League is one of the top 3-4 European Leagues, NOBODY here can give so much money to a basketball player). But, you know, everything changes, and faster than you expect (for sure, even if in the last 3 years Khimki spent a lot of money, I would not think that they could pay so much money for a single player...they never did that first of now). So, Europe (potentially) is a very BIG market for basketball, and I think that this market will develop soon (don't forget that Germany, UK, France don't have yet big European clubs, but they're growing as basketball nations). It's true: an European club president can spend every money he wants in acquiring a basketball player: in the USA, they can't. But they would be able to, if they could. I think that in the next 10-15 years, the biggest challenge for the NBA will be the Globalization of game: Euroleague could soon be what ABA was 30 years ago...if NBA wants to be the best league (it's not only about "I'm BIGGER! I'm BIGGER!: being the best means more TV contract, more market), they cannot lose their best players: in the future they have to beat Euroleague, or to deal with them (creating a unified league, or just trying to incorporate their bigger - and richer - teams).

[Bruno]

Sounds like Mark Cuban to me.

Or Paul Allen.

The huge difference is that their is a CBA in the NBA and they aren't free to do what they want.

[mathbzh]

Sometime salaries proposed in these ex-USSR countries are crazy.

Like this 40 millions euros/one year contract the soccer player Eto'o was proposed by an uzbek team. I don't know if it is true but this show how salaries can become crazy when your team has virtually endless money.

[mathbzh]

I don't think the NBA risk much for the moment. There is still much more money in the NBA that in the Europe. Of course, at some point, the NBA may be forced to rethink a few things if they want to keep all the top talents (rookie scale, salary cap, draft process...).

[freddy79]

Well, we have to say this:
the first ones who gave huge, incredible contracts to basketball, american football, baseball players, were Americans.
Don't forget about how many money earn Tiger Woods, Alex Rodriguez, Kevin Garnett, Shaquille O'Neal, also David Beckham (you Americans HATE soccer: why do you pay a football player so much????)
This is the market: if you want to take Delfino from a NBA team, you have to offer him more than what he takes in the NBA...the Etò'o story could be crazy, but think: HOW can a Uzbek football team take Eto'o? Offering him MORE MONEY...how Delfino can be persuaded to go to Russia (not a dream for an Argentinian, I think...), and NOT EVEN play Euroleague??? Offering him a HUGE contract, of course...

[GSH]

It's all about economy, and money, I guess...Euroleague could soon be what ABA was 30 years ago...if NBA wants to be the best league (it's not only about "I'm BIGGER! I'm BIGGER!: being the best means more TV contract, more market), they cannot lose their best players: in the future they have to beat Euroleague, or to deal with them (creating a unified league, or just trying to incorporate their bigger - and richer - teams).

I think the Russkies are plotting more than that. They also provide housing and maid service to the players. I think they are getting the maids to collect the players'... DNA... so they can create their own race of giants through artificial insemination. You laugh now, but just wait for the 2028 Olympics, and see who's laughing then.

Of course, if they were really smart they could have gotten Wilt to do it for them free. :downspin:

[Bruno]

If the trend continue, be ready to have all the best basketball players playing in Russia/Europe in a not so far future.

Will the NBA becomes like the WNBA, that is to say a summer league of some European's leagues ?

[timvp]

The globalization of basketball will likely lead to the death of the Spurs one day. One day in the not too distant future, a couple of those European owners are going to try to field the best teams money can buy. To do that, they'll give rookies ridiculous contracts that will trump the NBA rookie salary scale. In response, the NBA will have to start loosening up those restraints. The Euro teams will then start sniping away more and more legitimate NBA talent, which will force the NBA to loosen restraints all the way around. The Spurs barely survive now ... with loosened restraints and the championship years a thing of the past, the Spurs will become extinct due to the inability to keep up in the arms race.

The only way the above doesn't happen is if the US economy becomes overwhelming dominant and basketball stops growing at its current speed. It's unlikely that both will happen so better enjoy these Spurs while they are in existence because it won't last forever.

It's funny that David Stern has stressed the globalization of the NBA but didn't realize how it could one day have a massive negative affect on his league.

[Penya]

The globalization of basketball will likely lead to the death of the Spurs one day. One day in the not too distant future, a couple of those European owners are going to try to field the best teams money can buy. To do that, they'll give rookies ridiculous contracts that will trump the NBA rookie salary scale. In response, the NBA will have to start loosening up those restraints. The Euro teams will then start sniping away more and more legitimate NBA talent, which will force the NBA to loosen restraints all the way around. The Spurs barely survive now ... with loosened restraints and the championship years a thing of the past, the Spurs will become extinct due to the inability to keep up in the arms race.

The only way the above doesn't happen is if the US economy becomes overwhelming dominant and basketball stops growing at its current speed. It's unlikely that both will happen so better enjoy these Spurs while they are in existence because it won't last forever.

It's funny that David Stern has stressed the globalization of the NBA but didn't realize how it could one day have a massive negative affect on his league.


I don't think so.

There are only 10 or 12 teams in Europe that have economic potential enough to pay these salaries. Barcelona, Tau, Madrid, PAO, Khimki, CSKA, Maccabi, Olympiakos are the ones that are able to pay these salaries.

In Italy almost every teams are from small towns. In France and Germany there aren't much good teams. In Spain many teams are having economic problems and are disappearing due to that problems.

In Greece, Russia and Israel there are three or four good teams.

Those teams can't pay 45M€ in salaries.

A expansion of the league... An European Division... It might happen in ten? twenty years? I'm not sure. NBA teams have an ENORMUS economic potential.

(My vocab is a bit poor, excuse me).

[freddy79]

If the trend continue, be ready to have all the best basketball players playing in Russia/Europe in a not so far future.

Will the NBA becomes like the WNBA, that is to say a summer league of some European's leagues ?

I don't see this happening: both NBA and European basketball have too long seasons: in Europe players have 2-3 competitions (if you consider European League - Euroleague or ULEB - National Leagues and National Cup: 50-60 games every year), NBA only stops between July and October. I don't think that one player can do both: they'll have to choose.
For me, the only way for NBA to be competitive in Europe (and AGAINST Europe), will be, in the long way, expanding in Europe: creating an European Conference would be the better way to attract the richer European investitors (who would spend their money IN NBA, and not AGAINST), and to increase NBA global earnings...it's not easy, I know (too many space between California and Moscow, for example...)

[freddy79]

I don't think so.

There are only 10 or 12 teams in Europe that have economic potential enough to pay these salaries. Barcelona, Tau, Madrid, PAO, Khimki, CSKA, Maccabi, Olympiakos are the ones that are able to pay these salaries.

In Italy almost every teams are from small towns. In France and Germany there aren't much good teams. In Spain many teams are having economic problems and are disappearing due to that problems.

In Greece, Russia and Israel there are three or four good teams.

Those teams can't pay 45M€ in salaries.

A expansion of the league... An European Division... It might happen in ten? twenty years? I'm not sure. NBA teams have an ENORMUS economic potential.

(My vocab is a bit poor, excuse me).

Well, that's true right now, but don't forget that the situation is fastly growing...4 or 5 years ago, in Russia only CSKA had a good team: Khimki appeared in the last years...even if in France, Germany or UK there are no great and rich teams, it doesn't mean that there will NEVER: if you see how much money they put in other sports, you know that there's potential...in Italy, right now, no basketball team has money to compete against greater Euro teams, but Rome and Milan teams are as well growing: in these cities there's potential as well as in Berlin, Paris, London, Munich, Manchester, Istanbul (look at Efes Pilsen and Galatasaray...)...right now teams does not pay 45 Million Euros for a complete roster, but now already there's who pay 20-25 Millions: the gap is fastly closing...

[urunobili]

it is confirmed now.. he is giving a press conference on T&C Sports as i write this...

[waly.mg]

With this numbers there are others possibilities:

A player who was waived, can go to Europe to play and take the money of the 2 contracts, now if a player sign with another team, the previous Team pay only the difference between both contracts.

A restricted Free Agent can sign a one year deal in Europe, and the next year he is going to be Unrestricted.

For example, with this 10 Millions a year deal, a player Like Restricted FA Luol Deng or Ben Gordon can sign a 20 millions 1 year contract and next season they can come back to the NBA Unrestricted

[mathbzh]

The globalization of basketball will likely lead to the death of the Spurs one day. One day ...



I don't think so.

There are only 10 or 12 teams in Europe that have economic potential enough to pay these salaries. Barcelona, Tau, Madrid, PAO, Khimki, CSKA, Maccabi, Olympiakos are the ones that are able to pay these salaries.

...


You don't need Euroleague to become the #1 league to cause the death of the Spurs. All it would take, as timvp wrote, is to force the NBA to change its rule. Without a rookie scale and a Salary cap, it would only take a few years for the bigmarket teams (LA,...) to be overloaded with superstars.
Hopefully it will not happen.

[Bruno]

A restricted Free Agent can sign a one year deal in Europe, and the next year he is going to be Unrestricted.


No, it doesn't work like that. If a restricted free agent sign overseas, he will still be a restricted free agent if he decides to come back one day in NBA.

[temujin]

4.3 Millions Euros to Delfino is called either

Wealth Redistribution

or a

Steal.

For one year.

For three years is a Ripoff.

[Bruno]

There is no strong correlation between contracts offered by Euro teams and the size of their markets.

Do you really think that Khimki made tons of money with TV rights, tickets' sales and jerseys' sales ?
When they paid Delfino $5M or whatever per year, it's paid by owners and not by incomes generated by the team.

If a richer owner is ready to spend 5 times more on a player, Russian teams will pay some players $25M per year. If some billionaire fall in love for the Basketball, the NBA is screwed.

[waly.mg]

No, it doesn't work like that. If a restricted free agent sign overseas, he will still be a restricted free agent if he decides to come back one day in NBA.


oK, I DON´T KNOW THAT

But, if a restricted Player, if the team don´t pay him, he can take a contract in Europe and with this situation he can to persuade and to press his team to pay his money, because now there are only one option: sign with the team or sign and trade if the team match the offer, with the europeans team paying a lot of money, now there are more options

[Buddy Holly]

The globalization of basketball will likely lead to the death of the Spurs one day. One day in the not too distant future, a couple of those European owners are going to try to field the best teams money can buy. To do that, they'll give rookies ridiculous contracts that will trump the NBA rookie salary scale. In response, the NBA will have to start loosening up those restraints. The Euro teams will then start sniping away more and more legitimate NBA talent, which will force the NBA to loosen restraints all the way around. The Spurs barely survive now ... with loosened restraints and the championship years a thing of the past, the Spurs will become extinct due to the inability to keep up in the arms race.

The only way the above doesn't happen is if the US economy becomes overwhelming dominant and basketball stops growing at its current speed. It's unlikely that both will happen so better enjoy these Spurs while they are in existence because it won't last forever.

It's funny that David Stern has stressed the globalization of the NBA but didn't realize how it could one day have a massive negative affect on his league.

LOL

I don't know you intended to be funny but I did laugh at what I could only call a massive fictional scenario the likes of which Orson Wells would be envious of.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

http://www.sport-fm.gr/article/138867

3 years $30 million US dollar.

Is disgusting how American posters here insist it "must be less than this" or how others say such things were be discussed are "liars" and "need to shut up and be banned".

$30 million is not 4.3 million euros.

And reason they say Papaloukas and Saras make more is because as I explain here 100 times before and no one listen in big Greek clubs like Olympiacos and Panathinaikos contract is NET and does NOT include bonus salary. And big players of club get FREE villa on coast, free sports car, free yacht. And all this even the tax is paid on also.

Saras makes $12 million US dollars per year but only is his NET paycheck reported as "salary". How many times does this have to be explained to you dumbasses?

[stretch]

kbp needs to shut up and be banned

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I don't think the NBA risk much for the moment. There is still much more money in the NBA that in the Europe. Of course, at some point, the NBA may be forced to rethink a few things if they want to keep all the top talents (rookie scale, salary cap, draft process...).

Spain

FC Barcelona = billionaire owners
Real Madrid = billionaire owners
TAU = billionaire owners

Russia

CSKA = billionaire owners
Dynamo = billionaire owners
Khmiki = billionaire owners
UNICS = billionaire owners

Greece

Panathinaikos = billionaire owners
Olympiacos = billionaire owners

Turkey

Fenerbahche = billionaire owners
Efes = billionaire owners


This is either owners is billionaires with personal money or is billionaires with money from business they have or from money from the sports club that is revenue of all sports most from soccer, or is value of all things together and stocks. There is more in Europe but I list ones that is related to top basketball clubs at moment.

There is plenty of money for Europe to compete with NBA it just that only is a recent thing that these owners start to do so. Basketball federations and Euroleague in last year have made decision to compete with NBA.

[ElNono]

Here's a link in Spanish: LINK (http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=1031276)

Says Detroit offered 12 Million for 3 years. It also says, He's going to be making more money than Ginobili. 10M vs the 9.9M Manu is set to make this year. And after taxes the difference is even bigger. At that point Delfino will probably end up with about 7.3M/year...
He will turn into the 3rd best paid player in Europe, behind Papaloukas and Jasikevicius, both from Greece.

Anyways, IMHO, completely overpaid for a player they could have had for a lot less.

[mountainballer]

And big players of club get FREE villa on coast, free sports car, free yacht.

I see. the seaside Villa and the Yacht was the major reason for Delfino to sign with Khimki. he should have checked his old school atlas before he signed.

[mathbzh]

I don't think the NBA risk much for the moment.

Read my post, I do not really disagree with you.
I don't have much insight on how much money Euroleague owners really want to throw in their basketball team. Maybe some day Euroleague will be a true competitor for the NBA. Maybe it will happen sooner than expected. Maybe it will never happen.
Why? Because it depends on a bunch of billionaires falling in love with basketball... or not...

But, I think Euroleague can allready force the NBA to adjust its rules. And this simple fact is a huge change in the basketball world.

About billionaires:
I am french, in France Hockey is a minor sport. When I was younger, just after the Albertville winter games, a rich man (may be not billionaire but almost) though hockey would be the next big thing in France. He bought the club of Brest (it was playing in the second french league) and some of the best european players. At the end of the season, Brest was in the first league. After two season they won a title... then he realized Hockey would never be a major sport in France, took his money back. End of story, back to the lower divisions.

I don't tell you it will happen to European basketball team... just that with billionaires you never know.


And it is not like there is no billionaire in the USA
Paul Allen (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/10/07billionaires_Paul-Allen_1217.html)

[mountainballer]

About billionaires:
I am french, in France Hockey is a minor sport. When I was younger, just after the Albertville winter games, a rich man (may be not billionaire but almost) though hockey would be the next big thing in France. He bought the club of Brest (it was playing in the second french league) and some of the best european players. At the end of the season, Brest was in the first league. After two season they won a title... then he realized Hockey would never be a major sport in France, took his money back. End of story, back to the lower divisions.

I don't tell you it will happen to European basketball team... just that with billionaire you never know.

I just wanted to start writing something similar. you are absolutely right. if it's just some rich people, who put some money into the teams, it won't last for long.

yes, basketball has become more popular in the last 10 years in Europe. but there is still a huge gap to soccer. rich people that really want to get the media attention and all the celebrity stuff won't go into BB. they will go the Abramovic way. I really can't see that BB will ever get that kind of a high society factor in Europe like it is in the USA. and that's why the whole billionaire stuff is BS. you need a structure and millions of kids who play a sport, to bring it to such a high level like the NBA. that's why I don't see Europe close the gap. yes, it will become smaller and the level of competition will get better every year in Europe.

and please, people don't forget. the major factor still is the exchange rate. from 2002 the Euro more than doubled it's value compared to the $. but this is something that might also change quickly. it's not that an export economy like the EU is happy about the strong Euro and the weak $. just the opposite.

[temujin]

I would be happy to bring my kids to see Novitski or Parker or Calderon live.

Better yet, Manu, to show them what baskeball is all about.

I am not going to bring my kids to see Delfino.

19 millions Euros (GROSS, KBP, OK?) for 3 freaking years of Carlos Delfino is just ridiculous, grotesque,
and it is EXACTLY what Euroleague teams should NOT do.

Delfino did not make any difference in the Argentine team.
He did not make any difference in the NBA.
He will not make any difference in kimki.

Kimki? By the way where the hell is kimki?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I would be happy to bring my kids to see Novitski or Parker or Calderon live.

Better yet, Manu, to show them what baskeball is all about.

I am not going to bring my kids to see Delfino.

19 millions Euros (GROSS, KBP, OK?) for 3 freaking years of Carlos Delfino is just ridiculous, grotesque,
and it is EXACTLY what Euroleague teams should NOT do.

Delfino did not make any difference in the Argentine team.
He did not make any difference in the NBA.
He will not make any difference in kimki.

Kimki? By the way where the hell is kimki?


Is in Khimki Russia in Moscow region.

[freddy79]

There's one important thing to say: Eurobasket is not only growing, it's also becoming to "stole" players from NBA. In the beginning, in Europe were coming American players at the end of their careers. In the last years, European players who came back from NBA were the ones who never played (Tskitishvili, Kasun, Lampe, and so on...). In the last 4-5 years, something changed: for NBA teams is not so easy take European players: look at Vazquez (selected from Orlando), Scola (selected from the Spurs, but he came only last year, after a long struggle between Spurs and TAU), Splitter (Spurs-TAU round 2: I'm not sure that with NBA rookie scal he'll ever dress a black-gray-white uniform...), Pekovic (who did EVERYTHING he could to be selected in the second round). It's happening something more unespected: European mid-level players are starting to COME BACK!!! The thing is pretty known: THEY WANT to play in the NBA (look at press conferences of Navarro and Delfino after season ended), but they HAVE to COME BACK to EUROPE: it's not a matter of 500.000 dollars!!! If Delfino would have accepted the Pistons offer, he would have losed 18 MILLION DOLLARS in 3 years!!!! I know, Delfino and Navarro are midlevel players...but, THINK: if Delfino takes in Europe MORE THAN what GINOBILI takes in NBA, HOW MANY MONEY WOULD an EUROPEAN TEAM OFFER to take GINOBILI??? That's what will happen, sooner than expected: remember about last year's Kirilenko situation? CSKA would have taken him WITH HIS HUGE CONTRACT, if Jazz would have left him free!!!! You'll see: next Kirilenko big contract will come from Russia, not NBA....this could easily happen also for American players: NBA owners could spend more money, but salary cap (and LUXURY TAX) will always be a problem in this way...

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I see. the seaside Villa and the Yacht was the major reason for Delfino to sign with Khimki. he should have checked his old school atlas before he signed.

You must be idiot.

[TMTTRIO]

but, THINK: if Delfino takes in Europe MORE THAN what GINOBILI takes in NBA, HOW MANY MONEY WOULD an EUROPEAN TEAM OFFER to take GINOBILI???

I was thinking about that a little bit yesterday. I know Manu has recently said something like if he couldn't stay with the Spurs or be with a good team he would seriously consider going back to Europe to play and I can see that he would end up there if they threw a lot out there for him.

[freddy79]

I was thinking about that a little bit yesterday. I know Manu has recently said something like if he couldn't stay with the Spurs or be with a good team he would seriously consider going back to Europe to play and I can see that he would end up there if they threw a lot out there for him.

It's not unlikely: in Europe, he could get a very good contract, and play more years than in NBA...I know FOR SURE that Ginobili LOVES playing basketball: after all, I think that he'll stay with the Spurs, but IF they decide not to keep him, I see him likely coming back to Europe...and not only him: in 4-5 years, bigger European prospects could choose between the 2 options not thinking about money (or preferring European offers). NBA has to do something about that...

[nil.ball]

"Show me the money!" :lol

[T Park]

The invisible hand of economics.

One day the euro economy is gonna go down along with the euro and then the balance of power will be back twords the USA and NBA again.

[ElNono]

There's one important thing to say: Eurobasket is not only growing, it's also becoming to "stole" players from NBA. In the beginning, in Europe were coming American players at the end of their careers. In the last years, European players who came back from NBA were the ones who never played (Tskitishvili, Kasun, Lampe, and so on...). In the last 4-5 years, something changed: for NBA teams is not so easy take European players: look at Vazquez (selected from Orlando), Scola (selected from the Spurs, but he came only last year, after a long struggle between Spurs and TAU), Splitter (Spurs-TAU round 2: I'm not sure that with NBA rookie scal he'll ever dress a black-gray-white uniform...), Pekovic (who did EVERYTHING he could to be selected in the second round). It's happening something more unespected: European mid-level players are starting to COME BACK!!! The thing is pretty known: THEY WANT to play in the NBA (look at press conferences of Navarro and Delfino after season ended), but they HAVE to COME BACK to EUROPE: it's not a matter of 500.000 dollars!!! If Delfino would have accepted the Pistons offer, he would have losed 18 MILLION DOLLARS in 3 years!!!! I know, Delfino and Navarro are midlevel players...but, THINK: if Delfino takes in Europe MORE THAN what GINOBILI takes in NBA, HOW MANY MONEY WOULD an EUROPEAN TEAM OFFER to take GINOBILI??? That's what will happen, sooner than expected: remember about last year's Kirilenko situation? CSKA would have taken him WITH HIS HUGE CONTRACT, if Jazz would have left him free!!!! You'll see: next Kirilenko big contract will come from Russia, not NBA....this could easily happen also for American players: NBA owners could spend more money, but salary cap (and LUXURY TAX) will always be a problem in this way...

Ever heard of paragraphs?

[rapliketp]

That $30 million figure sounds like rubbish. Why would the Ruskies pay more than double his market price? Why would they pay such an amount when the best players in Europe are getting half that amount?

[GSH]

The globalization of basketball will likely lead to the death of the Spurs one day. One day in the not too distant future, a couple of those European owners are going to try to field the best teams money can buy. To do that, they'll give rookies ridiculous contracts that will trump the NBA rookie salary scale. In response, the NBA will have to start loosening up those restraints. The Euro teams will then start sniping away more and more legitimate NBA talent, which will force the NBA to loosen restraints all the way around. The Spurs barely survive now ... with loosened restraints and the championship years a thing of the past, the Spurs will become extinct due to the inability to keep up in the arms race.

The only way the above doesn't happen is if the US economy becomes overwhelming dominant and basketball stops growing at its current speed. It's unlikely that both will happen so better enjoy these Spurs while they are in existence because it won't last forever.

It's funny that David Stern has stressed the globalization of the NBA but didn't realize how it could one day have a massive negative affect on his league.

I've been wondering if they are trying to force the NBA's hand in creating a world league. I agree that they are going to crater the rookie scale soon, especially with the US dollar being so weak. But I don't think that they can pay greater than NBA salaries forever, unless their own revenues expand drastically.

If they were to pay the kinds of salaries being tossed around, it wouldn't be difficult to rack up a team salary of $100 Million, not including any of the additional perks, taxes, etc. I don't know what kind of broadcast deals they have, or who provides the arenas for Euro teams. But I wouldn't be surprised if a Euro team with a $100 Million salary outlay lost $50 Million per season. Nobody, not even a billionaire, would continue to give up 5% of their total wealth each year, unless they saw some kind of upside in the future.

Buying a $50 Million yacht, or collecting $50 Million worth of fine art or wine - those are hobbies. And those things retain value. But the money lost running a team is gone, unless they think they are investing in the future. Maybe I'm wrong, but those guys didn't become billionaires by being sloppy businessmen.

But I totally agree that if they escalate the salary war (and they certainly will) the first casualties will be teams like the Spurs.

[waly.mg]

i don´t see a real problem for the NBA, but probably the NBA must to make some adjustements:
The Players buyout form Europe, specially if the team drafted the player.
For ex; IF the team have Draft Rights can pay the full buyout, not only 500.000 because if the players have rookie scale, if he´s a late 1st round can won only 1 million dollars, and with a buyout of 2 millions, the player must to pay to play in the NBA, and a differente thing if he´s a Free Agent, because the team can pay more money.
Or the possibility for trades with no NBA teams

[temujin]

The invisible hand of economics.

One day the euro economy is gonna go down along with the euro and then the balance of power will be back twords the USA and NBA again.

Not untill the US economy takes up twice the amount of energy to generate the same unit of GNP.
Or untill the oil is back to $50.

Good luck.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

The invisible hand of economics.

One day the euro economy is gonna go down along with the euro and then the balance of power will be back twords the USA and NBA again.

US dollar is devalued. You cannot bring dollar value back up once this happen because your government print to much money to solve stupid economic systems like borrow from China and buy cheap good while send all production job to other country.

If you think dollar will ever come back you must have get F in economy class.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

That $30 million figure sounds like rubbish. Why would the Ruskies pay more than double his market price? Why would they pay such an amount when the best players in Europe are getting half that amount?

He is 3rd highest pay player in Europe. Saras and Papaloukas make more than this.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I've been wondering if they are trying to force the NBA's hand in creating a world league. I agree that they are going to crater the rookie scale soon, especially with the US dollar being so weak. But I don't think that they can pay greater than NBA salaries forever, unless their own revenues expand drastically.

If they were to pay the kinds of salaries being tossed around, it wouldn't be difficult to rack up a team salary of $100 Million, not including any of the additional perks, taxes, etc. I don't know what kind of broadcast deals they have, or who provides the arenas for Euro teams. But I wouldn't be surprised if a Euro team with a $100 Million salary outlay lost $50 Million per season. Nobody, not even a billionaire, would continue to give up 5% of their total wealth each year, unless they saw some kind of upside in the future.

Buying a $50 Million yacht, or collecting $50 Million worth of fine art or wine - those are hobbies. And those things retain value. But the money lost running a team is gone, unless they think they are investing in the future. Maybe I'm wrong, but those guys didn't become billionaires by being sloppy businessmen.

But I totally agree that if they escalate the salary war (and they certainly will) the first casualties will be teams like the Spurs.

Depend. Is cultural thing. Panathinaikos last year have $25 million in the revenue for BASKETBALL. They spend $45 million on basketball team so they have loss of $20 million for just basketball team. For whole sports club Panathinaikos have revenue last year $1.2 BILLION profit.

So lose $20 million for just basketball is not even issue. Anyway Euroleague President tell big owners of Panathinaikos and Olympiacos since they is make most revenue on basketball in Europe he tell them last year their is new policy. Euroleague want compete with NBA so teams must make effort to make money in basketball. So both teams expand merchandise, makes games available online, and they both sign huge TV contract to show all home games even ones in Greek league for all in Europe.

TV deal is worth the $50 million per year for each team. So now even basketball team will be make profit. So team is closer to $1.3 billion profit now. You think owners have any worry about how much revenue team make? Show me NBA team that have $1.3 billion profit for year.

[Spurtacus]

Has Delfino to Russia been confirmed 100%?

[kolko]

Has Delfino to Russia been confirmed 100%?

Yes, he will sign his contract next Monday, in Madrid.

[biba]

Marc Stein: Last Blast from Vegas

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=NBA-Notes-080719

Sources say Delfino will be earning nearly 3 million Euros annually -- tax free, of course -- with his new club. One expert on the matter says that equates to an NBA salary of more than $9 million when you factor in the exchange rate and the tax money Delfino won't have to give back.


Unless this expert is KBP, we have a stong confirmation of KBP statements.

[biba]

By the way, Stein adds:

But Garbajosa is expected to accept a similarly healthy compensation package from his hometown club in Spain -- Unicaja Malaga -- despite interest from the San Antonio Spurs.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Marc Stein: Last Blast from Vegas

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=NBA-Notes-080719

Sources say Delfino will be earning nearly 3 million Euros annually -- tax free, of course -- with his new club. One expert on the matter says that equates to an NBA salary of more than $9 million when you factor in the exchange rate and the tax money Delfino won't have to give back.


Unless this expert is KBP, we have a stong confirmation of KBP statements.

I have say these things all along here about tax free and how they report salary different. I am sick of posters like Marcus Bryant and others here call me liar and makes fun of me when I have say only TRUTH.

[freddy79]

What's happening here??? I stayed 2 days without NBA news: now I read about Delfino signing with Khimki (I already knew), but now also Nachbar is coming back to Europe, in Dinamo Moscow (3 years-9 million euros the offer). But, above all, also Nenad Krstic and Josh Childress are thinking to go to Europe...this is not more about rookie scale and buyout from Europe: in this moment, the fifth or sixth man of EVERY NBA rotation, if has a good offer from Europe, take MORE money going in Europe instead of staing in the NBA: that's the truth. Childress, Nachbar, Navarro, Delfino are all good NBA sixth men: the truth is that EVERYONE of them would obviously prefer to STAY in the NBA instead of coming back (or going) to Europe: if you read ALL their press conferences, they all say that they wanted to stay, but they could not refuse to come back: in Europe they'll take too many more money to refuse this chance. Nenad Krstic, if he decides to stay in the NBA, will lose a lot of money this year: he could only try to have a very good season, in search of a bigger contract (as a superstar). It's happening something new here: NBA have to do something if they does not want, in a couple of years, to lose a lot of good players (and so to decrease the overall value of playing quality).

[K-State Spur]

US dollar is devalued. You cannot bring dollar value back up once this happen because your government print to much money to solve stupid economic systems like borrow from China and buy cheap good while send all production job to other country.

If you think dollar will ever come back you must have get F in economy class.

Yeah, because the dollar never bounced back when it was devalued in the 70s... :rolleyes

It's gonna require some smarter people than we currently have running the show, but far from impossible.

[Slo spurs fan]

Yeah, because the dollar never bounced back when it was devalued in the 70s... :rolleyes

It's gonna require some smarter people than we currently have running the show, but far from impossible.

There wasn´t EURO in 70´s.

[Bruno]

These players signing overseas has nothing to do with the low value of the US dollar. Delfino and Nachbar has signed in Russia, that is to say a country where the business currency is the Dollar.

[freddy79]

These players signing overseas has nothing to do with the low value of the US dollar. Delfino and Nachbar has signed in Russia, that is to say a country where the business currency is the Dollar.

I'm completely agree: it's not about strong or weak Dollar: if an NBA owner WANTS to have a 100 million dollars payroll, he CAN have it: they are NOT missing money, and they have not LESS money than a Greek or Russian owner!!!! The question is that a NBA owner CANNOT give to Delfino 9 million dollars x year, NOT because they don't HAVE that money, BUT because, if you give Carlos that money, THEN you cannot take Jermaine O'Neal!!! And, if you have to choose, you take JO. With THIS salary cap, an NBA owner CANNOT keep EVERY player. In the NBA, one guy who takes 9 millions x year usually is your third best player, fourth at best: Delfino cannot be the third or fourth player in ANY NBA team, so he HAS to come back to Europe. But, and that's the REAL problem for NBA, if an European team has 9 million dollars to give to Carlos, HOW MANY money they would have for Ginobili, or Kirilenko, or Gasol, or (who knows) maybe also an American superstar???

[rapliketp]

$30 million deal reported was rubbish.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-childressgreece072108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Toronto Raptors free agent Carlos Delfino signed a three-year, $13.5 million deal with Khimiki of Moscow.

[waly.mg]

In fact, the europeans players pays more Taxes in USA than in Europe, because they are european citizen. An for Example Manu or Scola have double nationality, Manu is Italian and Scola is spanish.

And then, the American players are not in similar situations, because they pay less Taxes in USA than in Europe, because when you are foreigner you must to pay more taxes.

[waly.mg]

$30 million deal reported was rubbish.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-childressgreece072108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


Delfinos contract is Free, without Taxes, then is like a +9 millions a year in the NBA

[waly.mg]

Finally, there`s another situation, if the Team is over the Luxury Tax or with this contract, like Dallas, Suns, Celtics or NYK, the money is double.

In fact, if the team is over the Tax, and have a Restricted free agent, they must to pay 9 millions in Cash and 9 millions in Taxes, to resign him.

[rapliketp]

Delfinos contract is Free, without Taxes, then is like a +9 millions a year in the NBA

The figures are in US dollars. So he's getting $4.5 million US per year net.

[endrity]

The figures are in US dollars. So he's getting $4.5 million US per year net.

No, Stein explained the situation beautifully on ESPN. His 3 million Euros, is equivalent to about a 9 million Dollar contract. The 4.5 $million you are reporting is a simple conversion of the exchange rate between the dollar and the euro (right now 1 euro =1.5 dollar). However they don't pay taxes in Europe, or Russia better yet, so he gets to keep all of it. In order for him to keep his 4.5 million$, he would have to earn about double, so that is the 9 million that Stein reported.

[wisnub]

another player gone by

[freddy79]

The figures are in US dollars. So he's getting $4.5 million US per year net.

As much as EVERY NBA PLAYER who takes 9 million dollars x year: so it's LIKE a 9 million dollars contract...look at what Nachbar says in a ESPN interview: NBA HAS to improve A LOT his salary cap. If in 2010 this will not happen, you'll see, a lot of good players will go away: not only Europeans, but also Americans. I know, maybe American players have to pay more taxes in Europe...but becomin an European player is not too difficult. Everyone knows who John Robert (JR) Holden is? The CSKA Point Guard? Well, he's an Afro-American who became Russian (and now plays with Russian National Team), and so did Shammond Williams (Georgian now), and also Becky Hammon (now she's Russian too). Also look at Kaman (now German) and remember that A LOT of American players have European grandfathers or grandmothers, so for them becoming European is a easy thing in EVERY European Country...so, do you think that being American is a so big trouble for an American basketball player? I repeat: if NBA does not improve A LOT its salary cap, in a very soon future many good players will go to Europe...you'll see...

[Indazone]

Here we go..free agent exodus from the NBA to Europe. Money talks

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

$30 million deal reported was rubbish.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-childressgreece072108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

What you report is rubbish. They not even get exchange rate right and they also not understand this is net salary.:lol

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

The figures are in US dollars. So he's getting $4.5 million US per year net.

This is not even right exchange rate. And is also NET. Do you understand to get correct salary.

1. Try actual get correct exchange rate. Is $4.8 million not $4.5 million.

2. Is NET salary. NBA contracts is gross salary.

ESPN already say his sign for same as NBA $9 million contract because he is sign $4.5 millions after the tax.

Is I have to explain this for 1000 times in this forum? Is some here really this stupid?

[Indazone]

This is not even right exchange rate. And is also NET. Do you understand to get correct salary.

1. Try actual get correct exchange rate. Is $4.8 million not $4.5 million.

2. Is NET salary. NBA contracts is gross salary.

ESPN already say his sign for same as NBA $9 million contract because he is sign $4.5 millions after the tax.

Is I have to explain this for 1000 times in this forum? Is some here really this stupid?

lol they is stupid.

[kolko]

http://www.clarin.com/diario/2008/07/21/um/fotos/delfinoclarin1.jpg