Gist = "Derrick McKey type"?

[Marcus Bryant]

Too lazy to look up Pop's quote, but I seem to recall back in '06 that he wanted to find a "Derrick McKey-type" player. Basically a forward who can guard both forward positions (quick enough to step out on the perimeter and guard 3s, physical enough to bang inside against 4s), rebound decently, and offensively someone who could step outside and score. Granted, it's summerleague, but Gist's game seems to match rather well.

[hater]

Gist thread!

[Marcus Bryant]

If you think about it, Gist would be the type of "long 3" the Spurs would want in their system. One who can defend the 3, be a small ball 4, shoot the 3, block shots, and rebound.

[FromWayDowntown]

Too lazy to look up Pop's quote, but I seem to recall back in '06 that he wanted to find a "Derrick McKey-type" player. Basically a forward who can guard both forward positions (quick enough to step out on the perimeter and guard 3s, physical enough to bang inside against 4s), rebound decently, and offensively someone who could step outside and score. Granted, it's summerleague, but Gist's game seems to match rather well.

That's right. I have wondered if the paradigm has changed, since the Spurs' biggest problem no longer seems to be Dallas and Dirk (for whom the McKey-type seemed specifically needed). With the way the league is moving, though, I could still see the need for that sort of a player -- I'd just be very surprised if James Gist is that guy.

[Marcus Bryant]

That's right. I have wondered if the paradigm has changed, since the Spurs' biggest problem no longer seems to be Dallas and Dirk (for whom the McKey-type seemed specifically needed). With the way the league is moving, though, I could still see the need for that sort of a player -- I'd just be very surprised if James Gist is that guy.

True. He's still a longshot, but if the Spurs intend to continue to use IR and assignments to the Toros to develop young players, he's a worthy candidate all things considered.

[urunobili]

:merge The Gist

[SenorSpur]

As I pointed out in another thread, the one thing he seems to have on McKey is that he appears to have a more consistent motor than McKey ever had. This dude plays hard all the time. When he's on the floor, he makes his presence felt.

The fact that he has the potential ability to guard both the 3 & 4 spots, is a HUGE feather in his cap, IMO. Especially, since Pop has utilized more "small-ball" lineups than he ever has before.

[urunobili]

As I pointed out in another thread, the one thing he seems to have on McKey is that he appears to have a more consistent motor than McKey ever had. This dude plays hard all the time. When he's on the floor, he makes his presence felt.

The fact that he has the potential ability to guard both the 3 & 4 spots, is a HUGE feather in his cap, IMO. Especially, since Pop has utilized more "small-ball" lineups than he ever has before.
i have NO DOUBT that unless he busts the rests of his opportunities he'll get a contract with us and he will be a posibility to match up with: Odom, West and Dirk :)

[Streakyshooter08]

Well as a Spurs fan you can only hope that he turns out to be the "long 3" the Spurs are looking for. He has the physical tools to make it in the NBA but there is still a lot of work to do. If he continues to play like that the Spurs will certainly try to develop him. Chip can work on his shot with him and Bowen can teach him some defensive tricks. I could imagine him on the Spurs roster at the beginning of the season. But it is probably a little too early to tell. We'll see what happens.

[Solid D]

Yeah, Pop has been looking for McKey's clone as Ponce de Leon once looked for the Fountain of Youth. Gist doesn't score as well as Derrick did (I won't use the "Poor Man's" analogy) nor has he shown he can defend as well, yet, but Gist can really jump and contribute. He fits a combo 4 role better than Matt Bonner does obviously.

Right now, I'd say Gist fills roster slot #14.

[SenorSpur]

i have NO DOUBT that unless he busts the rests of his opportunities he'll get a contract with us and he will be a posibility to match up with: Odom, West and Dirk :)

:tu

Couldn't agree more. Hell, he could hardly do any worse than Oberto, Horry, Thomas or any other defender that Pop threw at them (not named Bowen). Even though he's raw, I'd love him match up against these guys.

He obviously has a lot to learn and will need to work hard to refine his defensive technique, but with good coaching, his natural ability and his apparent willingness to be play defense, I'm sure he'll be a demon at that end of the court.

[Marcus Bryant]

Unless his development takes a hockey stick path between now and late October, he'll be on his way to Austin then. There's always the possibility of a mid-season call-up due to injuries or what not else.

But the players fitting the McKey profile and available to the Spurs are few and far between in today's NBA. Yes, someone who can defend big, long, and quick forwards like Odom, West, and Nowitzki would be a great addition to the team, but there's a ways to go before Gist becomes that player.

[SenorSpur]

By the way, does anyone know if Gist is a legit 6'9"?

[Marcus Bryant]

By the way, does anyone know if Gist is a legit 6'9"?

I believe he's closer to 6'8" w/o shoes.

[MoSpur]

As long as he learns how to defend those type of players mentioned above, he'l' be a great addition to this team. His offense is just gravy as far as I am concerned.

[spurman20]

Mckey no I dont see the comparison, I see a D West type but better defender.....but it will take some time. West was a very poor shooter his first four years, two years ago the Hornets wanted to trade him for almost nothing and could not get an offer.

To his credit he worked alot on his shot, Gist is an Ok shooter but his mechanics are real bad. Hard work with our shooting coach and he could be a steal.

[Solid D]

Mckey no I dont see the comparison, I see a D West type but better defender.....but it will take some time. West was a very poor shooter his first four years, two years ago the Hornets wanted to trade him for almost nothing and could not get an offer.

They wanted to trade the Most Improved Player two years ago? You sure about that? Your description of David West is not what I know, at all. His rookie season was so-so and his 2nd year he was injured but the past three seasons have been stellar. David did improve his shooting but he's always been a good shooter for a Big, even in college.

[spurman20]

By the way, does anyone know if Gist is a legit 6'9"?

6-8.5 with shoes.....tweener ht.........same as D West, B Diaw, spurs want him to be a SF.

[manufor3]

Yeah, Pop has been looking for McKey's clone as Ponce de Leon once looked for the Fountain of Youth. Gist doesn't score as well as Derrick did (I won't use the "Poor Man's" analogy) nor has he shown he can defend as well, yet, but Gist can really jump and contribute. He fits a combo 4 role better than Matt Bonner does obviously.

Right now, I'd say Gist fills roster slot #14.

who's #15? hairston?

[spurman20]

They wanted to trade the Most Improved Player two years ago? You sure about that? Your description of David West is not what I know, at all. His rookie season was so-so and his 2nd year he was injured but the past three seasons have been stellar. David did improve his shooting but he's always been a good shooter for a Big, even in college.

Hornets offered him up on draft night after his second and third season for a first round pick. They feared his game would not translate to the NBA at PF where they wanted to play him.

This was brought up several times in the playoffs about how he was killing teams that refused to trade for him. One trade had LA Lakers trading K Brown for D West and cash..........the lakers refused. Thank God.

[Solid D]

who's #15? hairston?

TBA ...not sure. Off-season isn't over.

[Solid D]

Hornets offered him up on draft night after his second and third season for a first round pick. They feared his game would not translate to the NBA at PF where they wanted to play him.

This was brought up several times in the playoffs about how he was killing teams that refused to trade for him. One trade had LA Lakers trading K Brown for D West and cash..........the lakers refused. Thank God.

Are you sure that wasn't after his 2nd season? He was MIP in 2005-6 (3rd season).

[Bruno]

One of Spurs weakness these past years was that they had no ones to defend on quick bigmen. This year with Mahinmi and Gist, they have some players to defend on this kind of players. If one or both pan out, it will really help Spurs.

[spurman20]

Are you sure that wasn't after his 2nd season? He was MIP in 2005-6 (3rd season).

Im sorry you are right after second season.

[Gino2882]

In all honesty he probably isn't ready for minutes with the Spurs just yet. But, I think by the time the season rolls around he may be able to contribute defensively. His offensive game is a ways off, but he has shown range through the first 3 games.

[usckk]

The problem is that Gist has a 4's game. Defensively, I think he'll be great and will be able to guard players at thee 3 and 4. But he'll be a liability offensively when he plays 3

[Brutalis]

The problem is that Gist has a 4's game. Defensively, I think he'll be great and will be able to guard players at thee 3 and 4. But he'll be a liability offensively when he plays 3

Why? He seems to have a decent shot and good plays to the basket.

[SenorSpur]

The problem is that Gist has a 4's game. Defensively, I think he'll be great and will be able to guard players at thee 3 and 4. But he'll be a liability offensively when he plays 3

Dont' see that as much of a problem as him developing and incorporating the skills of a 3. Thereby giving Pop a lot of lineup flexibility and increasing his court time. He's got a long way to go to get there. However, if he does that, he could eventually be one of the roster's most versatile players down the road.

[Bruno]

I think that Spurs shouldn't try to turn Gist into a SF. It will takes forever to do that with a likely bad result.
He should be used at PF against players like Dirk, West or Odom. He is tailor made to play that role.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, what does Bowen do now that is so difficult to learn on offense?

Shoot a corner three?

[tav1]

Well, what does Bowen do now that is so difficult to learn on offense?

Shoot a corner three?

Right.

And what's great about Gist is that he scores on energy and hustle around the hoop. The fact that he has an emerging jump shot is just gravy. And great gravy, at that.

[timvp]

Oddly enough, I think playing in the D-League would actually hurt Gist's development. He played a lot at Maryland so he doesn't really need additional development. And if he went to Austin, he'd likely play a lot of back-to-the-basket power forward and center.

Even though he's raw and he's sure to cool off at some point, I like the idea of force-feeding Gist minutes on the NBA level. He needs to move away from the basket a little bit and learn how to play away from the rim. In D-League, he won't learn that. If Pop can even just throw him out there for 5 minutes a game, he looks like the type of player who'd survive getting thrown into the fire.

We'll see. He'll probably end up in Austin but if that happens, the Austin coaches better handle him correctly and not force him to play like Mahinmi did last year.

Oh and yeah the McKey comparison is pretty good. McKey was more talented away from the basket offensively (he was basically like a giant point guard on offense) but defensively, Gist could copy McKey's ability to guard twos, threes, fours and fives. As long as Gist's jumper keeps falling, Pop could play him at any number of positions.

I'm still waiting for the catch regarding Gist, though. I didn't watch him much in college but there must be a reason why he almost went undrafted. So far, he's played better than a lot of first rounders in summer league.

[Bruno]

I'm still waiting for the catch regarding Gist, though. I didn't watch him in college but there must be a reason why he almost went undrafted.

Being undersized badly hurt draft stocks. Among successful second rounder, most of them are undersized PFs (Boozer, Millsap, Landry, Craig Smith, Ryan Gomes...).

[tav1]

Oddly enough, I think playing in the D-League would actually hurt Gist's development. He played a lot at Maryland so he doesn't really need additional development. And if he went to Austin, he'd likely play a lot of back-to-the-basket power forward and center.

Even though he's raw and he's sure to cool off at some point, I like the idea of force-feeding Gist minutes on the NBA level. He needs to move away from the basket a little bit and learn how to play away from the rim. In D-League, he won't learn that. If Pop can even just throw him out there for 5 minutes a game, he looks like the type of player who'd survive getting thrown into the fire.

We'll see. He'll probably end up in Austin but if that happens, the Austin coaches better handle him correctly and not force him to play like Mahinmi did last year.

Oh and yeah the McKey comparison is pretty good. McKey was more talented away from the basket offensively (he was basically like a giant point guard on offense) but defensively, Gist could copy McKey's ability to guard twos, threes, fours and fives. As long as Gist's jumper keeps falling, Pop could play him at any number of positions.

I'm still waiting for the catch regarding Gist, though. I didn't watch him much in college but there must be a reason why he almost went undrafted. So far, he's played better than a lot of first rounders in summer league.

You know, I had him penciled in for the Toros, but you might be right. What you've written makes a lot of sense to me.

[tav1]

Being undersized badly hurt draft stocks. Among successful second rounder, most of them are undersized PFs (Boozer, Millsap, Landry, Craig Smith, Ryan Gomes...).

Undersized 4s drafted in the 2nd but making it big is kinda like the 12 vs 5 match up in the NCAA Tourney. Everyone knows that a 12 is going to win in the first, but no one knows just which one.

It's great that the Spurs landed this year's 12 seed.

[ChumpDumper]

If Gist is sent down to the Toros, hopefully it would be to develop more perimeter skills. It's a tough call to say that could easily happen since the roster turnover can be dizzying.

[tav1]

If Gist is sent down to the Toros, hopefully it would be to develop more perimeter skills. It's a tough call to say that could easily happen since the roster turnover can be dizzying.

Yes, the current CBA rules regarding the D-League need a complete overhaul.

[Taking it to the Hole]

I agree with timvp on Gist's development. Playing in the D-league won't really help him that much because he won't be playing against the caliber of competition that we are going to be asking him to compete with on a nightly basis. As far as his skill set is concerned, I am not so much concerned with his offensive production because the guy will be getting a lot of his baskets off of missed shots and hustle plays. I like the guy's energy and that energy needs to be released, not contained. He is raw, but that is his biggest asset.

[Marcus Bryant]

I think many are focusing too much on comparing Gist to McKey. The comparison that is germane is to the one Pop made publicly, specifically regarding the attributes of McKey (ability to guard both forward spots) which he felt were needed in a member of the Spurs' rotation. This is why the thread is entitled Gist = "Derrick McKey type"? instead of Gist = Derrick McKey?

[angelbelow]

agreed!

[ShoogarBear]

I'm still waiting for the catch regarding Gist, though. I didn't watch him much in college but there must be a reason why he almost went undrafted. So far, he's played better than a lot of first rounders in summer league.

I don't know about the eventual catch, but the biggest mark against Gist was that Maryland (comparitively) sucked, and Maryland, as opposed to say a mid-major, is not supposed to ever suck. But he was actually one of the few who ramped up his game this season.

[K-State Spur]

Mckey no I dont see the comparison, I see a D West type but better defender.....but it will take some time. West was a very poor shooter his first four years, two years ago the Hornets wanted to trade him for almost nothing and could not get an offer.

To his credit he worked alot on his shot, Gist is an Ok shooter but his mechanics are real bad. Hard work with our shooting coach and he could be a steal.

West was NCAA player of the year. It took him some time to figure out the NBA game, but it wasn't like he hadn't had huge success before entering the league.

[mystargtr34]

By the way, does anyone know if Gist is a legit 6'9"?

6'7" w/o shoes
7'3" wingspan
8'11.5" standing reach

Ridiculously large standing reach and wingspan for his height which will make him even better.

He has the length and reaching size of most 6'10" guys in the league so he wont have a problem guarding the 4's and has the quickness to step out on the perimeter against Small Forwards

[Gino2882]

Does have shot mechanic problems. Gets hit shot off slow, but elevates well and then likes to use the fadeaway.

[td4mvp21]

He probably won't contribute much this season right? He'd have to go to the Toros first?

[DespЏrado]

He probably won't contribute much this season right? He'd have to go to the Toros first?

I wouldn't be too sure about that. The Spurs are in desperate need of a player with his skill set. He's proven to be almost too good to let waste in the D league when he fits such a need.

[spurman20]

West was NCAA player of the year. It took him some time to figure out the NBA game, but it wasn't like he hadn't had huge success before entering the league.

So was JJ Redick..and Corlis Williamson....West was picked latter part of the first round because he was a tweener. And his first two yrs he had no shot outside 10ft and got busted trying to play D on 3 and 4s.

They almost gave up on him.

Doing well in NCAA does not make someone a NBA PLAYER. much less a great one. Chris paul is also a huge reason for his improvement he makes west look better than he is.

[K-State Spur]

Doing well in NCAA does not make someone a NBA PLAYER.

no shit?

my point was simply that west didn't come completely out of nowhere. while i don't think anybody expected to be anywhere near this good (with or without Paul's help), his complete initial struggles were a bit surprising as well.