Mavs make offer for Artest

[manufor3]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53636/20080717/source_mavs_make_offer_for_artest/

[xtremesteven33]

No Howard, No Artest

[ThunderStix®]

Stackhouse and Bass for Ron Artest.


Wow.

[sprrs]

They got lucky with low value for the Kidd trade and they think they can do it again?

[stretch]

can we give them howard and stack for artest and garcia?

Starters

Kidd
Wright
Artest
Nowitzki
Damp

Bench

Terry
Garcia
Green
Bass
Diop

Not a bad squad at all.

[stretch]

or if they dont wanna give up Garcia, then I will take Salmons. hes a very solid player as well, and plays a VERY similar style to Josh Howard (not quite as talented though), but knows his place and that he is a role player.

[Spur-Addict]

I wouldn't give up Bass.

[ducks]

I would give up howard and keep bass

[jacobdrj]

I would give up howard and keep bass

+1

[ducks]

dallas needs to take the chance with ron
kidd is not getting any younger
he plays well you might be a title contender
without ron dallas has no shot at a title

[Dirk Nowitzki]

:lmao:lmao Josh Howard better be included in this deal. Stack/Bass wont be enough to get it done. Let Howard be the Kings problem. Howard not being a 4th quarter player is enough reason to kick his ass off of this team. Add in the fact that he has a low iq, short temper, etc etc. Howard is talented but what you see is what you will get. Artest,while a bigger risk, will at least bring something in the 4th quarter and is that lockdown defender the Mavs desperatly need. Bass needs to stay on the team. Outside of Dirk, he was one of the big standouts in the playoffs.

[lefty]

2 wife beaters on the same team?

[dirk4mvp]

dallas needs to take the chance with ron
kidd is not getting any younger
he plays well you might be a title contender
without ron dallas has no shot at a title


Is this a poem?

[jack sommerset]

If the Mavericks can trade J-Ho straight up for Artest, that would be one hell of a trade for the Mavs. Mavs would get a better player and I think Artest makes less money. If u are Sac you get rid of Artest for a good player. Dallas would get better end of that trade.

[endrity]

This isn't new at all like Real GM is making it to be.

In fact in today's column Marc Stein writes that the Mavs TRIED that offer and it didn't convince the Kings at all.

So if anything the talks are dead because the Mavs don't wanna give up on Howard just yet. I would hate giving up on Bass too, he is such a deal with the contract that he has.

[baseline bum]

LMAO. Artest's ballhogging is just what Kidd needs to make that offense work.

[Dirk Nowitzki]

This isn't new at all like Real GM is making it to be.

In fact in today's column Marc Stein writes that the Mavs TRIED that offer and it didn't convince the Kings at all.

So if anything the talks are dead because the Mavs don't wanna give up on Howard just yet. I would hate giving up on Bass too, he is such a deal with the contract that he has.

It's time to give up on Howard. He isnt going to cut it here. The guy is a liability in the 4th. Why hang onto a low iq short tempered player who is scared as fuck to score in the 4th quarter? That is what Howard is and what he will always be. He pissed away some of that talent. Howard's ass has to go. He just isnt the guy we need him to be to take pressure off of Dirk. Instead all he does is put more pressure on Dirk and forcing guys like Stack/Terry to really pick up the slack which they can only do so much of.

[MWILL]

:lmao:lmao Josh Howard better be included in this deal. Stack/Bass wont be enough to get it done. Let Howard be the Kings problem. Howard not being a 4th quarter player is enough reason to kick his ass off of this team. Add in the fact that he has a low iq, short temper, etc etc. Howard is talented but what you see is what you will get. Artest,while a bigger risk, will at least bring something in the 4th quarter and is that lockdown defender the Mavs desperatly need. Bass needs to stay on the team. Outside of Dirk, he was one of the big standouts in the playoffs.


Amen to that!

Trade Josh for Ron straight up!

[manufor3]

how about j-how and stack for artest and garcia?

[MWILL]

how about j-how and stack for artest and garcia?

Let's get it done!

I gave J-Ho 3yrs. to play better in 3rd & 4th Qtrs. Now I'm done with him.

[mavsfan1000]

Giving up Howard for Artest would be stupid. Maybe Wright/Bass would be a good enough package for that headcase.

[TheMadHatter]

How is Artest that much of an upgrade over Josh Howard? Pretty lateral move if you ask me.

[dirk4mvp]

How is Artest that much of an upgrade over Josh Howard? Pretty lateral move if you ask me.


Artest would have put up more than 12 ppg in the playoffs while locking somebody down. Pretty much a 30 yard td pass if you ask me.

[mavsfan1000]

Artest would have put up more than 12 ppg in the playoffs while locking somebody down. Pretty much a 30 yard td pass if you ask me.
He's a blackhole so I would expect him to find some way of scoring more than 12 points while taking 20 shots. We got a new coach so I expect an inspired Josh Howard this year if we don't screw it up for this headcase.

[Fillmoe]

Artest, when not acting like a dick hole, is a great player.

[ShoogarBear]

Howard and Beno together? Good business for the Sac night life.

[Findog]

can we give them howard and stack for artest and garcia?

Starters

Kidd
Wright
Artest
Nowitzki
Damp

Bench

Terry
Garcia
Green
Bass
Diop

Not a bad squad at all.

If you want Artest, you have to take Kenny Thomas off their hands too. Package deal.

[Findog]

How is Artest that much of an upgrade over Josh Howard? Pretty lateral move if you ask me.

Their games are similar, but Artest is basically a Rolls Royce, while Josh is a Honda Accord. The X Factor is that Ron-Ron is fucking nuts, but Josh has maturity issues, so they cancel each other out.

[ShoogarBear]

I agree with the point about Artest's tendency to be an offense-killer. People talk appropriately about him being nuts, but the biggest on-court problem with him is that he thinks he's an elite scorer and will destroy a team rhythm just to prove it.

[milkyway21]

He's a blackhole so I would expect him to find some way of scoring more than 12 points while taking 20 shots. We got a new coach so I expect an inspired Josh Howard this year if we don't screw it up for this headcase...new coach which happens to be Carlisle, Artest's former coach and maybe one of the few who can control him, when he played for Indiana and having his best season in the league-defensively(2003-04 DPOY), while averaging 18.3ppg. Last yr, he missed the playoffs (again), but he averaged 20ppg vs LAL. He can be of help to any team in the WC.

Screw your team? Your team is screwed already since the 2007 playoffs and then you let Diop and Kidd swapped locations. He's worth a peek, (but I hope he won't come to Dallas).

[Indazone]

Seems about right. Get Artest and I can't wait for him to go postal and go into the stands and punch out a Mav's fan. Poetic justice! lol

[MWILL]

He's a blackhole so I would expect him to find some way of scoring more than 12 points while taking 20 shots. We got a new coach so I expect an inspired Josh Howard this year if we don't screw it up for this headcase.


Sorry mavsfan, but I prefer someone who shows up in the 3rd & 4th Qtr of games.

[TheMadHatter]

Like I said before, getting Artest is a move the Mavs don't need to make.

They need to dump Dampier and find a real center with post scoring abilities. Pair him with Dirk and you have a deadly inside-outside combo with your PF/C.

[dirk4mvp]

Like I said before, getting Artest is a move the Mavs don't need to make.

They need to dump Dampier and find a real center with post scoring abilities. Pair him with Dirk and you have a deadly inside-outside combo with your PF/C.


where do we get one of those?

[angelbelow]

keep bass, he seems like a worker. trade howards ass.

[KidCongo]

Howard will come good.

[Findog]

They need to dump Dampier and find a real center with post scoring abilities. Pair him with Dirk and you have a deadly inside-outside combo with your PF/C.

Easier said than done.

[monosylab1k]

the biggest on-court problem with him is that he thinks he's an elite scorer and will destroy a team rhythm just to prove it.

That wound up being Josh Howard's biggest problem at the end of the season too.

[MavDynasty]

Josh and stack for Artest,i dont wanna lose Bass.

He and wright is our future :lol

[endrity]

I hope the Mavs FO has been watching the FIBA pre-Olympic tournament. Dirk and Kamman are getting along like they have been playing for a decade together. Honestly, those two, Kidd, and a bunch of decent swingman and the Mavs have a team that can win the title next year.

[stretch]

I hope the Mavs FO has been watching the FIBA pre-Olympic tournament. Dirk and Kamman are getting along like they have been playing for a decade together. Honestly, those two, Kidd, and a bunch of decent swingman and the Mavs have a team that can win the title next year.

hmm... and didnt the clippers just trade for a high caliber center in Marcus Camby? i have a hard time believing they are expecting one of them to come off the bench...

[jacobdrj]

how about j-how and stack for artest and garcia?

Somehow, I don't think any Kings Fans would be much happy with this proposal...

[MavDynasty]

I hope the Mavs FO has been watching the FIBA pre-Olympic tournament. Dirk and Kamman are getting along like they have been playing for a decade together. Honestly, those two, Kidd, and a bunch of decent swingman and the Mavs have a team that can win the title next year.

Yeah, Dirk scored like 35 in 31 min.

Isn't today an elimination game for them?

[stretch]

Somehow, I don't think any Kings Fans would be much happy with this proposal...

true. but fact is, when you are the team trying to get rid of a player (in this case, the kings getting rid of Artest), you will almost never get equal or greater value in return.

[monosylab1k]

hmm... and didnt the clippers just trade for a high caliber center in Marcus Camby? i have a hard time believing they are expecting one of them to come off the bench...

it would be nice but it won't happen. we've got how much freakin money invested in our two POS centers? no way they get another, unless the clippers want to take Dampier off our hands. But I don't see that happening.

[endrity]

Yeah, Dirk scored like 35 in 31 min.

Isn't today an elimination game for them?

Yes, it's elemination game from this point on for them. But they have to win this one to get into the last four. Than they can still lose a game, but win the tiebreak game. only three teams will go into the olympics. From what i have seen only Greece is much better (not a surprise at all, since they are all healthy). I think Germany is the second best team, so if no slip ups happen they should qualify.

[endrity]

it would be nice but it won't happen. we've got how much freakin money invested in our two POS centers? no way they get another, unless the clippers want to take Dampier off our hands. But I don't see that happening.

I am not as anti Damp as mono is, i still think he is key to our defense, but a Kamman for Damp trade would make me extatic!!!!

[monosylab1k]

I kinda hope Germany doesn't qualify, if only to give Dirk more rest.

[endrity]

I kinda hope Germany doesn't qualify, if only to give Dirk more rest.

Well it's his last summer playing for them, he's made that public. And given how much he cares, I would love for Dirk to win some kind of medal. With Kamman on the team he has that legit second scorer he has always needed.

[stretch]

it would be nice but it won't happen. we've got how much freakin money invested in our two POS centers? no way they get another, unless the clippers want to take Dampier off our hands. But I don't see that happening.

i wouldnt mind trading diop and someone for kaman.

[Cow.]

Moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!mo o!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo! moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!mo o!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo! moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!mo o!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!moo!

[Findog]

hmm... and didnt the clippers just trade for a high caliber center in Marcus Camby? i have a hard time believing they are expecting one of them to come off the bench...

They don't. One of them will slide to PF.

[Brandon Bass]

:madrun

If the Mavericks are fucking stupid enough to get rid of The Basshole right before I begin my league domination, then they don't deserve my badassness!

[mavsfan1000]

:madrun

If the Mavericks are fucking stupid enough to get rid of The Basshole right before I begin my league domination, then they don't deserve my badassness!
Bass is a spare. Too undersized. He will always be inconsistent as the height disadvantage is always working against him.

[monosylab1k]

Bass is a spare. Too undersized. He will always be inconsistent as the height disadvantage is always working against him.

die

[mavs>spurs2]

Bass is a spare. Too undersized. He will always be inconsistent as the height disadvantage is always working against him.

Yea Barkely sucked :rolleyes

[mavsfan1000]

Yea Barkely sucked :rolleyes
Rarely is there a player like Barkley that succeeds. He was a phenomenal athlete and big boned. Bass is nothing like Barkley except they are both undersized PF's.

[Findog]

I'd rather keep Bass than Smokey. Artest has the same kind of game as Josh, only he's a better version.

[mavsfan1000]

Brandon Bass is Kenny Thomas at best.

[Findog]

Rarely is there a player like Barkley that succeeds. He was a phenomenal athlete and big boned. Bass is nothing like Barkley except they are both undersized PF's.

The Blazer bandwagon has plenty of room. Go keep tlong company.

[Findog]

Brandon Bass is Kenny Thomas at best.

God, you're stupid.

[mavs>spurs2]

Rarely is there a player like Barkley that succeeds. He was a phenomenal athlete and big boned. Bass is nothing like Barkley except they are both undersized PF's.

Bass is at least 2 inches taller than Barkely, as well as a phenomenal athlete and strong as fuck. Fail

[mavsfan1000]

Bass has no low post game. Similar to Kenny Thomas. Kenny Thomas is also a good athlete but athletes with lack of skill don't go that far in the nba. A jump shot is all he is.

[Findog]

Bass has no low post game. Similar to Kenny Thomas. Kenny Thomas is also a good athlete but athletes with lack of skill don't go that far in the nba. A jump shot is all he is.

Ok, you're just a troll. Kudos, you got us to bite.

[monosylab1k]

The Ticket in Dallas just reported that the Kings offered Artest for Howard straight up.

Mavs rejected it.

Fuck the Mavs.

[monosylab1k]

I am so fucking pissed off now. I oughta kill everyone in Dallas.

[MavDynasty]

The Ticket in Dallas just reported that the Kings offered Artest for Howard straight up.

Mavs rejected it.

Fuck the Mavs.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

FUCK THE MAVS.FUCK THE MAVS FO. FUCK DONNIE. FUCK JOSH HOWARD. FUCK ERICA DAMPIER. FUCK STACK. FUCK CUBAN U LITTLE GREEDY BITCH YOU TURNED THIS FRANCHISE INTO ONE OF THE TOP THIS DECADE ONLY TO FUCK YOURSELF 8 YEARS LATER. FUCK EVERYONE ON THE MAVS EXCEPT BASS TERRY AND DIRK

I'm so fucking pissed right now. Fuck me.

[MavDynasty]

Yep, its been reported.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....67662c0f.html

Wow, so we could be sitting in Artest heaven right now, and all we would have had to give up is Josh friggin' Howard. This is a sad day folks, the front office is a mess and full of morons, let me get this straight. We trade a young talented PG in Harris plus two 1st rounders for a 35 year old Kidd but won't budge Howard for the superior Artest? Wow, just wow. Look what we have done this offseason:

- Fired Avery Johnson, Hired Rick Carlisle (Both good moves)

- Signed Desagana Diop (Good move, but overpaid and puts us at 2006-2007 level again)

- Signed several below average to average swingmen

Now that's what I call a championship contender! Great job Donnie and Cuban, you idiots have never really been able to sort things out. There's no way we have a shot at the title with the current roster, no way in hell. If we lose in the 1st or 2nd round, hell if we don't win the title this year, I hope Dirk demands a trade straight up. I am furious at this team's management right now, furious. Ron Artest was our only chance to get a better scorer, improve our defence tremendously, and acquire toughness all at the same time. Guess what? We'd rather keep Josh Howard, who has proven nothing other than the fact that he folds in the clutch and has a big, stupid mouth. Bravo Donnie Nelson, bravo Mark Cuban, you continue to prove your stupidity throughout this offseason. God I'm pissed off right now!

Well, I can't wait until the Lakers pick up Ron Artest, get the #1 seed, and then probably whoop our #8 seeded asses in the first round!

[monosylab1k]

somebody needs to get www.firedonnienelson.com up and running immediately

[MavDynasty]

wow wtf,i went to click on that link again and it says page not found?

[Findog]

That's just sad, especially if the Kings didn't insist on dumping Kenny Thomas' contract on us. Josh is just as much of a risky head case as Artest.

[monosylab1k]

fuck it. this front office isn't serious about winning.

all the 15-67 seasons year after year didn't deter me as a Mavs fan. But absolute fucking bullshit like this makes it real hard for me to stay a fan. I may take a leave of absence until Donnie Nelson is removed from his post.

[MavDynasty]

That's just sad, especially if the Kings didn't insist on dumping Kenny Thomas' contract on us. Josh is just as much of a risky head case as Artest.

The dumbfucks better have something in mind if they are keeping Josh. If he is still the same black hole shithole pot smoking hot tempered little fuck face by the time the season starts then kill me.

[MavDynasty]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/071808dnspomavslede.67662c0f.html


By BRANDON GEORGE / The Dallas Morning News
[email protected]

The Sacramento Kings have expressed interest in acquiring Dallas Mavericks forward/guard Josh Howard in a trade for All-Star forward Ron Artest, but the Mavericks aren't interested, according to an NBA source.

The Mavericks reportedly were willing to offer forward Brandon Bass and guard Jerry Stackhouse for Artest. But the Kings wanted Howard included in the deal, halting the discussions.
Because the Mavericks won't budge on Howard, a potential trade for Artest is all but dead, the source said.

Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban declined comment in an e-mail to The Dallas Morning News.

A deal for Artest would have given the Mavericks an All-Star caliber starter at every position except center and reunited Artest with head coach Rick Carlisle, who coached Artest when he played for the Indiana Pacers.

Trade rumors have swirled about Artest this summer. The Kings and Los Angeles Lakers were reportedly in talks about an Artest-for-Lamar Odom swap, but that has since fizzled. The San Antonio Spurs and Phoenix Suns also have shown interest.

Artest, 28, is one of the top defensive players in the NBA and has averaged 16 points, 5.1 rebounds and 3.2 assists per game over his nine-year career. Artest has career playoff averages of 17.3 points and 6.1 rebounds per game.

Artest (6-7, 248) is with his third NBA team but doesn't seem to be slowing. He averaged a career-best 20.5 points per game last season with the Kings.

Bass and Stackhouse for Artest would have been almost a wash in terms of salaries. Artest is set to make $7.4 million next season. Stackhouse will earn $7 million next season and Bass $826,269.

Stackhouse, 33, averaged a career-low 10.7 points per game last season, his 13th in the NBA. The 23-year-old Bass, however, set career-highs by averaging 8.3 points and 4.4 rebounds per game last season, his third. Bass (6-8, 240) spent his first two seasons with the New Orleans Hornets.

Howard, 28, averaged a career-best 19.9 points and seven rebounds per game last season, his fifth. He was All-Star in 2007 and will earn $9.945 million next season.

Howard, 6-5, had a rocky finish last season. He went on a local radio show and discussed his off-season marijuana use during the Mavericks' playoff series against the New Orleans Hornets. And after a playoff loss, he passed out fliers in the locker room inviting teammates to celebrate his birthday at a Dallas nightclub.

But despite Howard's off-court antics in late April, the Mavericks don't seem willing to deal the versatile swingman. At least not yet.

[MavDynasty]

I bet Rick is pissed at the FO for not getting Ron.

[monosylab1k]

I bet Rick is pissed at the FO for not getting Ron.

I bet Rick is a big reason they didn't do the trade. Word is he's got a big boner for Josh, and he also isn't as open to coaching Artest as he says.

[monosylab1k]

Donnie Nelson getting pushed around by the head coach yet again. The more things change the more they stay the same.

[Findog]

I bet Rick is a big reason they didn't do the trade. Word is he's got a big boner for Josh, and he also isn't as open to coaching Artest as he says.

One way or the other I want the hole at SG filled. They better have a Plan B.

[Findog]

"We love our team."

[Findog]

"This is the best team we've had in the Cuban era."

[Findog]

"Our Big Three (Dirk, Kidd, Josh) is as good as anybody's."

[MavDynasty]

I still think we should have kept devin if we knew dick breath would block the trade.

Think about it,if that worthless scrub didnt block it we wouldve had Kidd AND Miller which would fill the hole at sg

[MavDynasty]

The Mavericks, for whatever reason, are refusing to entertain a trade involving Josh Howard, who apparently is a great player and a possible all star. The only way we get Artest now is if someone like Kidd or Dirk pulls a Kobe and demands that Mark or Donnie get some help. Kidd isn't going to do it, and Dirk isn't that kind of guy, so I see us being exactly the same team as last year + Diop.

[MavDynasty]

I'd garner that we are willing to give up Josh, but the deal with Sac would have to return some talent of value. That talent most surely is Francisco Garcia, 3 year 2 guard who is 6'7 and is coming off the best year of his short career. Garcia unfortunately is locked behind Kevin Martin who is approaching the all-star level and probably won't be played at the point guard spot because they've signed Beno Udrih to a nice contract. Garcia is the odd man out the Mavs and Kings both know it. In my opinion trading with the Mavs makes the most sense for the Kings so I believe a deal for Artest will get done. The particulars probably lie with Artest's extension that he will most certainly want before the deal is done.

I believe this deal is close to be had... keep up the faith Mono and Findog, because you're analysis of what the Mavs need is correct, but don't underestimate Donny and Cuban's knowledge, they know exactly what they are doing and don't want to repeat the mistakes of the Kidd trade...

Wait fuck that, they dont know shit.

[stretch]

I'd garner that we are willing to give up Josh, but the deal with Sac would have to return some talent of value. That talent most surely is Francisco Garcia, 3 year 2 guard who is 6'7 and is coming off the best year of his short career. Garcia unfortunately is locked behind Kevin Martin who is approaching the all-star level and probably won't be played at the point guard spot because they've signed Beno Udrih to a nice contract. Garcia is the odd man out the Mavs and Kings both know it. In my opinion trading with the Mavs makes the most sense for the Kings so I believe a deal for Artest will get done. The particulars probably lie with Artest's extension that he will most certainly want before the deal is done.

I believe this deal is close to be had... keep up the faith Mono and Findog, because you're analysis of what the Mavs need is correct, but don't underestimate Donny and Cuban's knowledge, they know exactly what they are doing and don't want to repeat the mistakes of the Kidd trade...

Wait fuck that, they dont know shit.

honestly i think that the mavs want more out of the deal. it wouldnt suprize me if they were trying to get someone like Garcia or Salmons as well.

[MavDynasty]

ya ^

[TheSanityAnnex]

I'd do Artest for Stackhouse and Bass, but it doesn't look like Petrie wants to. Petrie seems adamant on adding Kenny Thomas to any Artest trade and that is what seems to be scaring other teams off.

[jacobdrj]

I'd do Artest for Stackhouse and Bass, but it doesn't look like Petrie wants to. Petrie seems adamant on adding Kenny Thomas to any Artest trade and that is what seems to be scaring other teams off.

As a King, I would do that.
Stack is no Artest (nor is he a playoff performer) but he is consistent, and Bass is solid.
Artest is like a box of chocolate... ya never know what your gonna get...

[MavDynasty]

Maybe we should all slow down on the Knee jerk reaction to the FO turning down the trade.
1. The kings have no leverage at this point, because clearly they HAVE to trade Ron Artest.
2. The Mavs DONT Have to Trade Josh Howard.
3. Ron artest has an expiring contract and thus the kings get the better benefit of the swap.
4. FO may be playing hard ball to get a better deal, which after the Pau Gasol and Marcus Camby trade, they have every reason to do so.
5. The kings are trying to play hard ball but in the long run, they know and we know, that going through the season with Ron Ron is and will be impossible.
6. Imagine if the Mavs could get Josh and Ron at the 2 and 3 spots.
Now those are just a few reasons why the Mavs should wait it out and avoid acting like a giddy kid who just got a valentine's day card in kindergarten. The fact is, the kings are trying to get somewhat of an equal value because the Lakers refuse to give them Odom. They thought they could squeeze the mavs arm to get a somewhat all starish player(omitting the playoff BS). Eventually, we have a 1/4 chance to get the deal done with our bass+stack offer. What are their alternatives??
lets see:
Barbosa from Suns (the kings are loaded with SGs. See Salmons, Garcia, K.Martin)
Possibly an expiring Marion from Miami (expiring 4 expiring is a negative ghostrider)
Lakers(wont offer Odom until the fate of bynum and Sasha are sealed)
Rockets(Shane Battier?? Seriously??)
They don't want this to linger any longer but let's play the waiting game with them..So go ahead and pull up a lawn chair and wait for the fireworks..

[jacobdrj]

"Our Big Three (Dirk, Kidd, Josh) is as good as anybody's."

Big 4...
Dirk. Kidd. Josh. Stack...

Beats the Bucks big 4...

[MavDynasty]

"This is the best team we've had in the Cuban era."

:bking

[TheSanityAnnex]

Maybe we should all slow down on the Knee jerk reaction to the FO turning down the trade.
1. The kings have no leverage at this point, because clearly they HAVE to trade Ron Artest.



I stopped reading after this utterly stupid remark.

The Kings don't HAVE to trade Artest and them not doing so before last year's deadline only proves my point. If Petrie doesn't get what he feels is equal value, Artest stays. Artest is in a contract year and will be forced to perform this upcoming year. His play is worth more than he is paid at this point, and after this season his salary will disappear off the King's books. In actuality, the Kings are the ones with the leverage here.

Now I'll read your other points and see if they are as clueless as the first.

[TheSanityAnnex]

3. Ron artest has an expiring contract and thus the kings get the better benefit of the swap For a contending team (obviously not the Mavs) there is virtually no risk in acquiring Artest. If it doesn't work out, big deal, you got him on the cheap and he's off your books at seasons end. If it does work out (L.A. Lakers), you've got yourself another ring.

[Findog]

For a contending team (obviously not the Mavs) there is virtually no risk in acquiring Artest. If it doesn't work out, big deal, you got him on the cheap and he's off your books at seasons end. If it does work out (L.A. Lakers), you've got yourself another ring.

The whole point to acquiring Artest from our perspective is that under the right proposal, him coming here vaults Dallas from the bottom half of the West playoff picture back into the elite level with the Spurs, Lakers and Hornets. You could argue that swapping Howard for Artest is a lateral move for us, but those two guys straight up for each other doesn't work. The Kings want to dump off Kenny Thomas in any deal for Artest and the Mavs would probably ask for Salmons or Garcia as well if they have to take KT. Until an actual trade takes place, it's premature to say that Artest wouldn't improve the Mavs.

A non-contending team has no incentive to bring in a risky headcase like Artest.

[TheSanityAnnex]

The whole point to acquiring Artest from our perspective is that under the right proposal, him coming here vaults Dallas from the bottom half of the West playoff picture back into the elite level with the Spurs, Lakers and Hornets.

A non-contending team has no incentive to bring in a risky headcase like Artest.I don't think it vaults you that high where as Lakers/Spurs acquiring him almost guarantees a finals appearance.

[Findog]

I don't think it vaults you that high where as Lakers/Spurs acquiring him almost guarantees a finals appearance.

Him going to Dallas instead of LA or San Antonio prevents them from improving via Artest. Acquiring him is a zero-sum game for all potential trade partners.

[mavsfan1000]

The Ticket in Dallas just reported that the Kings offered Artest for Howard straight up.

Good. We don't need any cancers on our team. Howard looks innocent when you compare him to Artest. Artest would single handedly destroy our offense.

[mavsfan1000]

It still doesn't make up for the Kidd trade though. That was the worst trade ever.

[Findog]

It still doesn't make up for the Kidd trade though. That was the worst trade ever.

Oh really? I had no idea you felt that way. Why did you never speak up before?

[dirk4mvp]

It still doesn't make up for the Kidd trade though. That was the worst trade ever.


Michael Finley is the worst Maverick ever. He never did anything for the franchise and was full of suck.

[Findog]

Michael Finley is the worst Maverick ever. He never did anything for the franchise and was full of suck.

Not only that, but Michael Finley was the 20th Hijacker.

[mavs>spurs2]

MICHAEL FINLEY FUCKED MY MOM

for real guys

[mavsfan1000]

Never disagree with the sheep mavs fans on spurstalk. They'll tear you a new asshole for thinking differently. I guess everyone should think the same. :rolleyes

[Findog]

Never disagree with the sheep mavs fans on spurstalk. They'll tear you a new asshole for thinking differently. I guess everyone should think the same. :rolleyes

It's not your takes that are the problem, you're a troll. We know how you feel about the Kidd trade, you literally do not post about anything else. Like I said, go keep tlong company on the Blazer wagon.

[mavs>spurs2]

Say the Mavs somehow pull this off without giving up Howard. Would Howard/Artest really work at the 2/3? It seems like their games are mirror images of eachother (obviously Artest is superior) and would we have enough outside shooting to make this work? Is Kidd/Howard/Artest enough shooting from the guard positions? (I consider the 3 a big guard)

[dirk4mvp]

Never disagree with the sheep mavs fans on spurstalk. They'll tear you a new asshole for thinking differently. I guess everyone should think the same. :rolleyes


How the hell are we supposed to take you seriously? You became a Mavfan because you liked the jerseys.

[LakerHater]

Mavs passed on the trade!!!
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/071808dnspomavslede.67662c0f.html

[dirk4mvp]

Say the Mavs somehow pull this off without giving up Howard. Would Howard/Artest really work at the 2/3? It seems like their games are mirror images of eachother (obviously Artest is superior) and would we have enough outside shooting to make this work? Is Kidd/Howard/Artest enough shooting from the guard positions? (I consider the 3 a big guard)


As long as we don't have Michael Finley in his prime we'll be ok :tu

[mavs>spurs2]

As long as we don't have Michael Finley in his prime we'll be ok :tu

If we had michael finley in his prime, we could do the josh for artest trade and this team would be beast like.

[mavsfan1000]

How the hell are we supposed to take you seriously? You became a Mavfan because you liked the jerseys.
True and I'm a big Cuban and Dirk fan. I also started liking Harris, Howard, and Diop. At least we got Howard and Diop still. I love the colors of the mavs though. Coolest in the nba imo.

[mavsfan1000]

If we had michael finley in his prime, we could do the josh for artest trade and this team would be beast like.
The same Michael Finley that the spurs fans are hoping to leave. :lol

[mavs>spurs2]

The same Michael Finley that the spurs fans are hoping to leave. :lol

IN HIS PRIME you ignorant fuckhead

[mavsfan1000]

IN HIS PRIME you ignorant fuckhead
In prime Finley would mean that Artest and Howard aren't at the pro level yet. ;)

[Findog]

mavsfan1000 makes 21 Blessings look erudite and sophisticated.

[mavs>spurs2]

It was hypothetical, moron

[dirk4mvp]

True and I'm a big Cuban and Dirk fan. I also started liking Harris, Howard, and Diop. At least we got Howard and Diop still. I love the colors of the mavs though. Coolest in the nba imo.

That's kind of fucking pathetic.

[monosylab1k]

Stack is no Artest (nor is he a playoff performer) but he is consistent

:lmao consistently what? yeah he'll consistently give you 2 for 9 shooting nights, that's for sure.

[Findog]

He'll consistently miss around 30-35 games a year.

[mavs>spurs2]

He'll consistently miss around 30-35 games a year.

:lol Now that's consistency!!

[mavsfan1000]

Well that is one thing we can all agree on. Stackhouse sucks.

[stretch]

Well that is one thing we can all agree on. Stackhouse sucks.

your face is shit

[21_Blessings]

Stackhouse sucks.

Much like the Mavericks.

[Findog]

Much like the Mavericks.

Stackhouse is the 21 Blessings of our team. You're a big pile of fail.

[21_Blessings]

big pile of fail.

Stop talking about your life.

[Findog]

Stop talking about your life.

That's a really pathetic comeback, really.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98609

Are you going to slink off like a cowardly bitch again?

[duncan228]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/steve_aschburner/07/18/artest/?eref=sircrc

Artest, Mavericks need each other
Steve Aschburner

Ron Artest is doing his part. Josh Howard might already have done his part. Now the onus is on the Mavericks and Kings to do their parts.

The line apparently has been drawn separating an actual Artest-to-Dallas trade possibility from empty telephone conversations and Internet speculation. That line, at the moment, is said to be Howard's unavailability to Sacramento, a player nearly Artest's equal in ability and his better in stability, save for a dose of spring fever the Mavericks' swingman caught in late April.

But the offseason is young, teams' and players' initial negotiating positions rarely are etched in stone -- remember, at this time last year, Kobe Bryant wanted to be traded and Kevin Garnett didn't want to play for the Celtics -- and, as we noted, Artest is doing his best to drive down his market value and make feasible a deal that might not even include Howard.

By venting over his own mistake of not opting out of the final year of his contract ($7.4 million) and then announcing to the world that he wants to be traded, Artest has set in motion a process that, in pro sports, is as time-honored as swiping the spray deodorant out of the next man's locker. This generally is effective all by itself, a shot across management's bow that things could become counterproductive or even unseemly if the desired change doesn't occur. Then you factor in who's involved -- this isn't exactly Grant Hill, Tim Duncan or Steve Nash in terms of demeanor or reputed integrity -- and you know the Kings are no more in control of this situation than they are of Andy Dick's next bender.

Artest doesn't even have to mention his steamer trunk's worth of erratic behavior or how it is that he has played for three teams despite a two-way game as valued in NBA circles as highly as anyone's under 6-foot-10. At 28, he is at the point where even his smiles and his "no comments'' seem a little ominous, and stories written about him invariably include a mention of Dennis Rodman. You talk to Artest, then you walk away convinced that his gyroscope runs at double the torque, on triple the axes, loaded with a jack-in-the-box trigger from which you'd prefer to keep some distance.

It's the sort of personality that makes him a tremendous risk for any team that employs him, none more so than one that isn't a serious contender and thus has long stretches of its season crying out for Ron-Ron entertainment. But since Artest's game is the sort that offers tremendous reward to a good team with the proper support system -- at least, that's what the league's scouts and armchair psychologists believe, though he has made it out of the playoffs' first round only once in nine seasons -- he also offers a tremendous reward. The man defends, he brings toughness, he can score from both the low post and the three-point arc, he crashes the offensive boards and he is tireless (thanks, gyroscope!). On a club with established veterans and a strong coaching voice, Artest could be as helpful and manageable as -- here it comes again -- Rodman was to Chicago's second three-peat run from 1996-98.

Dallas could be that team. With Jason Kidd, Dirk Nowitzki and Jason Terry in place, the Mavericks have a veteran core and the semblance of grown-up standards. As long as Artest didn't overrun the Mavs' alleged softness of heart, he would bolster it. He plays bigger than his size as much as Nowitzki often plays smaller than his, and Dallas coach Rick Carlisle got good results (until the melee in Detroit) when he and Artest were in Indiana. Also, the Mavericks' narrowing window of championship opportunity conveniently coincides with the amount of time a team can have Artest around before the distractions take over.

All we need now are a few more weeks of Artest e-mails to various reporters and his showing up unexpectedly in offseason gyms as he did the other day at the Las Vegas summer league, happy to oblige the notebooks and recorders one way or another. Demanding, pouting, apologizing or professing love and loyalty, it doesn't really matter -- the more Artest talks, the more he looms as a liability for Sacramento. The threat of blackmail by disruption shouldn't be rewarded, but this is pro sports. Guys like Artest, Rasheed Wallace, Allen Iverson or, in the NFL, Terrell Owens and Jeremy Shockey can drive down their own trade value and still end up winning, if they land with clubs they prefer.

So maybe come August or September, a Dallas package of emerging forward Brandon Bass and high-mileage Jerry Stackhouse (a.k.a. expiring $7 million contract) might not seem too lopsided to the Kings to end an Artest circus. Or, just maybe, the Mavericks soften a little on swapping out Howard, whose touches and swingman contributions would drop, anyway, if Artest were around. Howard averaged 19.9 points and 7.0 rebounds last season, while Artest was at 20.5 points, 5.8 rebounds and 3.5 assists.

Howard had a calliope of his own warming up a few months ago, coinciding awkwardly with Dallas' first-round elimination against New Orleans, when he talked on a radio show about his offseason use of marijuana. Then, after one loss in that series, he invited teammates to his birthday celebration at a local nightclub.

The mind reels at the prospect of Howard as Cheech and Sacramento center Brad Miller as Chong clouding up the windows of the team's new Volkswagen minibus. Better the munchies, though, than to suffer the sort of hangover an extended stay from an acting-out Artest might bring.

More important, though, Dallas needs another piece, perhaps precisely this piece, if the Kidd trade was intended for anything beyond a half season's gamble. The Mavericks ought to be willing to pay for it. Once Artest establishes the final markdown price.

[Findog]

He plays bigger than his size as much as Nowitzki often plays smaller than his

Who the fuck is Steve Aschburner? What qualifies him to write about basketball?

[monosylab1k]

Who the fuck is Steve Aschburner? What qualifies him to write about basketball?

Is what he said untrue? I believe most Mavs fans agree with the sentiment that Dirk is basically a 7 foot shooting guard. That means he does play smaller than his size.

Getting a guy like Artest, who has more power forward-like qualities, will definitely help Dirk out.

[Findog]

Is what he said untrue? I believe most Mavs fans agree with the sentiment that Dirk is basically a 7 foot shooting guard. That means he does play smaller than his size.

Getting a guy like Artest, who has more power forward-like qualities, will definitely help Dirk out.

I read it as him pulling out the Dirk is soft card, which should've been put to bed last year. I didn't interpret it literally.

[TheMadHatter]

Artest isn't that much of an upgrade over Josh Howard. I don't think it'd get the Mavs over the hump by any means. What they need is a post scorer to pair with Dirk to have a true inside-out game in the playoffs when things inevitably slow down.

[Red Hawk #21]

Mavs Management seems to be pretty stupid, they actually want to trade Bass?? After all the hustle and Heart he played with last season they want to trade this guy? The Duo of Donnie Nelson and Mark Cuban will run the Mavs franchise into the lottery very soon.

[dirk4mvp]

What they need is a post scorer to pair with Dirk to have a true inside-out game in the playoffs when things inevitably slow down.



What a groundbreaking thought you have here.


You're definately the first poster here to say that.

[monosylab1k]

Artest isn't that much of an upgrade over Josh Howard. I don't think it'd get the Mavs over the hump by any means.

:lmao shocking coming from a Laker fan. "Ron Artest isn't all that great unless he comes to the Lakers, and then he's awesome!"

Ron Artest > Lamar Odom > Josh Howard

[TheMadHatter]

:lmao shocking coming from a Laker fan. "Ron Artest isn't all that great unless he comes to the Lakers, and then he's awesome!"

Ron Artest > Lamar Odom > Josh Howard

Wow talk about totally missing my point. Is Artest an upgrade over Howard, sure. But getting Ron Artest isn't going to catapult the Mavs to the next level. They have bigger holes to fill than at the SF position.

[Red Hawk #21]

Its funny how some people think that intensity and toughness is what will get the Mavs over the hump. First off the Mavs aren't soft imho, if they had a legitimate post presence to compliment Dirk all these years they would have rings by now. All of this soft and Choker talk wouldn't be happening, at the very most they should try and get someone like Okafor. Why not trade Howard for Okafor?

[mavs>spurs2]

I'm not familiar with the Bobcats but isn't Okafor a defensive player?

[mavs>spurs2]

Also, no one ever really addressed this question


Say the Mavs somehow pull this off without giving up Howard. Would Howard/Artest really work at the 2/3? It seems like their games are mirror images of eachother (obviously Artest is superior) and would we have enough outside shooting to make this work? Is Kidd/Howard/Artest enough shooting from the guard positions? (I consider the 3 a big guard)

Maybe if we can get Artest without giving up Howard, we can proceed to trade Howard for Redd since he's more of a 2 and a great shooter.

[Red Hawk #21]

He's a very good defensive player but he has proven he can score in the paint, He averaged 13 points and 10 rebounds last season. That is solid enough to compliment Dirk well imo, and remember that Okafor didn't have a point guard like Kidd when averaged those numbers. And he is still very young and still has upside, that is the kind of move the Mavs should make imo. Chill with this intensity/ toughness BS and just try your hardest to get a legit center.

[ShoogarBear]

The Ticket in Dallas just reported that the Kings offered Artest for Howard straight up.

Mavs rejected it.

Fuck the Mavs.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[manufor3]

mavsfan1000 makes 21 Blessings look erudite and sophisticated.

lets not get carried away...

[trueD]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/steve_aschburner/07/18/artest/?eref=sircrc

Artest, Mavericks need each other
Steve Aschburner

Ron Artest is doing his part. Josh Howard might already have done his part. Now the onus is on the Mavericks and Kings to do their parts.

The line apparently has been drawn separating an actual Artest-to-Dallas trade possibility from empty telephone conversations and Internet speculation. That line, at the moment, is said to be Howard's unavailability to Sacramento, a player nearly Artest's equal in ability and his better in stability, save for a dose of spring fever the Mavericks' swingman caught in late April.

But the offseason is young, teams' and players' initial negotiating positions rarely are etched in stone -- remember, at this time last year, Kobe Bryant wanted to be traded and Kevin Garnett didn't want to play for the Celtics -- and, as we noted, Artest is doing his best to drive down his market value and make feasible a deal that might not even include Howard.

By venting over his own mistake of not opting out of the final year of his contract ($7.4 million) and then announcing to the world that he wants to be traded, Artest has set in motion a process that, in pro sports, is as time-honored as swiping the spray deodorant out of the next man's locker. This generally is effective all by itself, a shot across management's bow that things could become counterproductive or even unseemly if the desired change doesn't occur. Then you factor in who's involved -- this isn't exactly Grant Hill, Tim Duncan or Steve Nash in terms of demeanor or reputed integrity -- and you know the Kings are no more in control of this situation than they are of Andy Dick's next bender.

Artest doesn't even have to mention his steamer trunk's worth of erratic behavior or how it is that he has played for three teams despite a two-way game as valued in NBA circles as highly as anyone's under 6-foot-10. At 28, he is at the point where even his smiles and his "no comments'' seem a little ominous, and stories written about him invariably include a mention of Dennis Rodman. You talk to Artest, then you walk away convinced that his gyroscope runs at double the torque, on triple the axes, loaded with a jack-in-the-box trigger from which you'd prefer to keep some distance.

It's the sort of personality that makes him a tremendous risk for any team that employs him, none more so than one that isn't a serious contender and thus has long stretches of its season crying out for Ron-Ron entertainment. But since Artest's game is the sort that offers tremendous reward to a good team with the proper support system -- at least, that's what the league's scouts and armchair psychologists believe, though he has made it out of the playoffs' first round only once in nine seasons -- he also offers a tremendous reward. The man defends, he brings toughness, he can score from both the low post and the three-point arc, he crashes the offensive boards and he is tireless (thanks, gyroscope!). On a club with established veterans and a strong coaching voice, Artest could be as helpful and manageable as -- here it comes again -- Rodman was to Chicago's second three-peat run from 1996-98.

Dallas could be that team. With Jason Kidd, Dirk Nowitzki and Jason Terry in place, the Mavericks have a veteran core and the semblance of grown-up standards. As long as Artest didn't overrun the Mavs' alleged softness of heart, he would bolster it. He plays bigger than his size as much as Nowitzki often plays smaller than his, and Dallas coach Rick Carlisle got good results (until the melee in Detroit) when he and Artest were in Indiana. Also, the Mavericks' narrowing window of championship opportunity conveniently coincides with the amount of time a team can have Artest around before the distractions take over.

All we need now are a few more weeks of Artest e-mails to various reporters and his showing up unexpectedly in offseason gyms as he did the other day at the Las Vegas summer league, happy to oblige the notebooks and recorders one way or another. Demanding, pouting, apologizing or professing love and loyalty, it doesn't really matter -- the more Artest talks, the more he looms as a liability for Sacramento. The threat of blackmail by disruption shouldn't be rewarded, but this is pro sports. Guys like Artest, Rasheed Wallace, Allen Iverson or, in the NFL, Terrell Owens and Jeremy Shockey can drive down their own trade value and still end up winning, if they land with clubs they prefer.

So maybe come August or September, a Dallas package of emerging forward Brandon Bass and high-mileage Jerry Stackhouse (a.k.a. expiring $7 million contract) might not seem too lopsided to the Kings to end an Artest circus. Or, just maybe, the Mavericks soften a little on swapping out Howard, whose touches and swingman contributions would drop, anyway, if Artest were around. Howard averaged 19.9 points and 7.0 rebounds last season, while Artest was at 20.5 points, 5.8 rebounds and 3.5 assists.

Howard had a calliope of his own warming up a few months ago, coinciding awkwardly with Dallas' first-round elimination against New Orleans, when he talked on a radio show about his offseason use of marijuana. Then, after one loss in that series, he invited teammates to his birthday celebration at a local nightclub.

The mind reels at the prospect of Howard as Cheech and Sacramento center Brad Miller as Chong clouding up the windows of the team's new Volkswagen minibus. Better the munchies, though, than to suffer the sort of hangover an extended stay from an acting-out Artest might bring.

More important, though, Dallas needs another piece, perhaps precisely this piece, if the Kidd trade was intended for anything beyond a half season's gamble. The Mavericks ought to be willing to pay for it. Once Artest establishes the final markdown price.

It's funny, because recently I made a comparison (if Artest were to go to the Lakers) of Kobe as Cheech and Artest as Chong--but Artest thinking he was Cheech. Of course, my thought pattern--totally different than this writer. Put Kobe and Artest together and I'm watching that 82 times a year!

This guy states that Artest is endeavoring to devalue himself to the Kings by blurting out his emotions. The writer has no knowledge of Artest being incapable of forethought. :lol

Petrie isn't going to be in a hurry to trade Artest. Artest is actually the best trade tool Kings have had in forever--Webber was unloaded, Bibby was unloaded, hell....even Peja was unloaded for Artest. Kings are in a terrific position to garner a nice trade.

Mavericks may change their minds. So may the Lakers.

Keep the faith, guys.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

The Ticket in Dallas just reported that the Kings offered Artest for Howard straight up.

Mavs rejected it.

Fuck the Mavs.

I'm left baffled.

[angelbelow]

Artest isn't that much of an upgrade over Josh Howard. I don't think it'd get the Mavs over the hump by any means. What they need is a post scorer to pair with Dirk to have a true inside-out game in the playoffs when things inevitably slow down.

what the hell. artest is a HUGE upgrade over howard. howards got no D and hes extremely soft. guess what? the mavericks have no D and are extremely soft.

[dirk4mvp]

what the hell. artest is a HUGE upgrade over howard. howards got no D and hes extremely soft. guess what? the mavericks have no D and are extremely soft.


Good thing you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

[manufor3]

what the hell. artest is a HUGE upgrade over howard. howards got no D and hes extremely soft. guess what? the mavericks have no D and are extremely soft.

Now howard is the exact same player as Artest but Artest has tweeked his game up a little more.

[ElNono]

Remember not to throw Howard too deep under the bus. He might be your starting 2 this season.

[Findog]

The more I think about it, the more I don't like the idea of a Howard for Artest swap. Artest has 1 year left on his deal, while Howard is locked up for several more. It's risky to let Artest walk in a year when you're still way over the cap and you lose an asset for nothing. It's also risky to sign him to a long-term deal. I'd prefer to move Josh, but I don't want a repeat of Kidd for Harris, when we let a good young PG with several years left on his deal go to Jersey in exchange for a 35 year old whose deal is about to expire, and we don't even get cap relief for him coming off the books.

[TheMadHatter]

Artest only works on a team that has little to lose if he goes nuts. Lakers, Celtics, Spurs......are really the only teams that fit the bill right now. Ron Artest would be the 4th best player on all of those teams.

[confined]

what the hell. artest is a HUGE upgrade over howard. howards got no D and hes extremely soft. guess what? the mavericks have no D and are extremely soft.

Howard will kick you in the nads, terry will punch you in the nads, stack will pull a gun on you, and kidd will beat your wife. I see no softness here

[mavsfan1000]

Howard will kick you in the nads, terry will punch you in the nads, stack will pull a gun on you, and kidd will beat your wife. I see no softness here
Unfortunately, Kidd is only agressive with women and not men. He is a softy when he plays basketball. Not attacking the paint or posting up. Pathetic. Stackhouse is just stupid.

[angelbelow]

Howard will kick you in the nads, terry will punch you in the nads, stack will pull a gun on you, and kidd will beat your wife. I see no softness here

alrite you fucking maverick ive had josh howard on my fantasy team for the past two years and i drafted him HIGH. because of this ive watched over 100 maverick games in the past two years. josh howard is soft and he disappears hardcore in 4th. im usually fine with that cause i dont give a shit about the mavericks and josh gets all his stats in the first half. josh is even worst in the playoffs, and i dont go off starts, i go off impact because i actually watch these games.

if you guys dont get artest then i really dont give a shit, cause im used to the maverick team that are incompetent.

[confined]

alrite you fucking maverick ive had josh howard on my fantasy team for the past two years and i drafted him HIGH. because of this ive watched over 100 maverick games in the past two years. josh howard is soft and he disappears hardcore in 4th. im usually fine with that cause i dont give a shit about the mavericks and josh gets all his stats in the first half. josh is even worst in the playoffs, and i dont go off starts, i go off impact because i actually watch these games.

if you guys dont get artest then i really dont give a shit, cause im used to the maverick team that are incompetent.

Calm the fuck down you Nazi asshole i was joking, and that fact that you don't go off stats in a fantasy league just shows how stupid you really

[~~Ice Man 2000~~]

As long as they have that bum Jason Kidd it won't matter.

[monosylab1k]

The more I think about it, the more I don't like the idea of a Howard for Artest swap. Artest has 1 year left on his deal, while Howard is locked up for several more. It's risky to let Artest walk in a year when you're still way over the cap and you lose an asset for nothing. It's also risky to sign him to a long-term deal. I'd prefer to move Josh, but I don't want a repeat of Kidd for Harris, when we let a good young PG with several years left on his deal go to Jersey in exchange for a 35 year old whose deal is about to expire, and we don't even get cap relief for him coming off the books.

Please don't tell me you're boarding the Donnie & Mark Spin Train.

If this team flames out again next year, a complete dismantling of the roster is in order (some would argue that it's a year overdue as it is). So losing Artest & Kidd's contracts would be more beneficial if we want to gear up for a shot at a 2010 signing.

One thing of note - Artest is only like 6 months older than Howard. So it's not like we're trading away an up-and-comer for an old man.

[JamStone]

The more I think about it, the more I don't like the idea of a Howard for Artest swap. Artest has 1 year left on his deal, while Howard is locked up for several more. It's risky to let Artest walk in a year when you're still way over the cap and you lose an asset for nothing. It's also risky to sign him to a long-term deal. I'd prefer to move Josh, but I don't want a repeat of Kidd for Harris, when we let a good young PG with several years left on his deal go to Jersey in exchange for a 35 year old whose deal is about to expire, and we don't even get cap relief for him coming off the books.


I think this is the main reason why the Mavs won't make Josh-Artest straight up trade. If Artest was signed for the next three seasons, I think it would be easier for the Mavs to trade Howard. But, after next season, they might be left with no Josh and no Artest.

Artest is definitely an upgrade but I agree that making the trade wouldn't be the type of trade that would ensure anything come playoff time against the rest of the elite WC teams.

And, while the Mavs could definitely use some consistent low post offense, every team can use that. I don't think the lack of a post presence on offense is the reason they lost in the first round the past two seasons. They had more problems defensively trying to play at an even faster, break-neck tempo and had problems matching up and defending point guards like Baron Davis and Chris Paul. I don't think having a post presence necessarily changes the outcomes of those series. Plus, even without a legit low post presence, they got to the NBA Finals in two years ago and got past a great Spurs team. I do think their perimeter defense needs to be addressed just as much as their frontcourt issues.

[ShoogarBear]

Please don't tell me you're boarding the Donnie & Mark Spin Train.

If this team flames out again next year, a complete dismantling of the roster is in order (some would argue that it's a year overdue as it is). So losing Artest & Kidd's contracts would be more beneficial if we want to gear up for a shot at a 2010 signing.

One thing of note - Artest is only like 6 months older than Howard. So it's not like we're trading away an up-and-comer for an old man.

I kinda agree with this. The Mavs' window, like the Suns, and maybe even the Spurs, is the next 1-2 years (because of Kidd). If things don't happen next year, then it will be time to plan for life after Kidd, and having Artest's cap space will be a good thing.

[angelbelow]

Calm the fuck down you Nazi asshole i was joking, and that fact that you don't go off stats in a fantasy league just shows how stupid you really

lol my main point was that i DO watch the games and i see how josh plays.

[stretch]

alrite you fucking maverick ive had josh howard on my fantasy team for the past two years and i drafted him HIGH. because of this ive watched over 100 maverick games in the past two years. josh howard is soft and he disappears hardcore in 4th. im usually fine with that cause i dont give a shit about the mavericks and josh gets all his stats in the first half. josh is even worst in the playoffs, and i dont go off starts, i go off impact because i actually watch these games.

if you guys dont get artest then i really dont give a shit, cause im used to the maverick team that are incompetent.

:lmao @ this guy getting butthurt over... well... nothing.

[Findog]

Please don't tell me you're boarding the Donnie & Mark Spin Train.

If this team flames out again next year, a complete dismantling of the roster is in order (some would argue that it's a year overdue as it is). So losing Artest & Kidd's contracts would be more beneficial if we want to gear up for a shot at a 2010 signing.

One thing of note - Artest is only like 6 months older than Howard. So it's not like we're trading away an up-and-comer for an old man.

I want Howard gone, but not for Artest. Regardless of how he flamed out last year, he's still an asset, and he still has trade value. Last time I checked our salary/cap thing on realgm, we're WAY WAY WAY over the cap, and Kidd and Artest expiring next summer still wouldn't get us under the cap. I want more back for Howard than a 1 year rental of Artest. As it stands right now, we traded away Devin for a year and a half of Kidd.

[Findog]

They had more problems defensively trying to play at an even faster, break-neck tempo and had problems matching up and defending point guards like Baron Davis and Chris Paul. I don't think having a post presence necessarily changes the outcomes of those series. Plus, even without a legit low post presence, they got to the NBA Finals in two years ago and got past a great Spurs team. I do think their perimeter defense needs to be addressed just as much as their frontcourt issues.

Yep, we've been raped in the playoffs by Tracy McGrady, Steve Nash, Dwyane Wade, Baron Davis and Chris Paul. Perimeter defense has been more of an achilles heel than lack of a low-post scorer or Dirk not being "clutch." Josh when he wants to be can be a very good defender, but you stick him on a guard and there are crossmatches the other team can exploit. Mavs really need to find a Battier, Bowen-type more than anything else.

[MavDynasty]

If we don't do SOMETHING this offseason to address our needs at the SG position or get Dirk a decent running mate, I'm gonna be mad as hell. By the sounds of Donnie Nelson he's taking a lazy attitude with respect to this offseason, "Oh, we like our team!", damn. Anyone who utters those words after witnessing the pathetic effort in the playoffs should be dipped in a vat of Tobasco sauce.

I'd like to believe the constant defensive breakdowns and mental errors were all Avery's fault. I'd like to believe Kidd's horrible defence on Paul and his not meeting expectations were all Avery's fault. I'd also love to believe that Josh Howard's playoff stutter was all Avery's fault, that every brick and birthday invitation and dope confession, it was all Avery's fault! But it isn't, this team has serious problems that draw much deeper than the coaching position and the backup centre position. We didn't lose the past few years because we had no heart or soul, we lost because we weren't good enough. Howard just isn't a suitable second banana to Dirk, and never will be.

This move needs to be made now, not at the deadline. Do we really want to see the coaching staff scramble to integrate yet another star into our system with half the season over with? I sure as hell don't. Trade Howard+Bass+Stack for Artest+Thomas+Garcia, get ready to take any crap that comes your way, and win the damn championship!

[mavs>spurs2]

I disagree about giving up Bass, he was our only toughness last season. No way they get Bass and Howard for a lunatic with one year left on his contract.

[MavDynasty]

If we dont do shit this season then fuck it,blow up this team,fire donnie, and most importantly...trade Dirk so he can go to a good team to win a ring while this shithole known as the Dallas Mavericks become the NBA's worst.

[mavs>spurs2]

We need more than one player with some balls on this team if we're going to win, aka Bass AND Artest. Taking on Kenny Thomas' contract should be enough incentive to not have to give up Bass.