Missing out on J R Smith: the upside

[Tully365]

At least we won't have to spend the summer defending reckless driving/unintentional manslaughter/spitting on women:


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jul/17/woman-decries-plea-deal-nuggets-star-alleged

If that link doen't work, try this:
http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

Article posted below-- sorry, I couldn't get the Rocky Mountain News link to work.

[jag]

At least we won't have to spend the summer defending reckless driving/unintentional manslaughter/spitting on women:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jul/17/woman-decries-plea-deal-nuggets-star-alleged

If that link doen't work, try this:
http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

Posting the article would be cool, considering i don't feel like doing a 10 minute search cause none of your links work.

[Tully365]

Home › News › Local News
J.R. Smith's court moves draw foul cry
Lawyer wants Nugget to plead guilty to assault
By Alan Gathright, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Thursday, July 17, 2008

J.R. Smith accused of being in a fracas at a nightclub.


A
©2007 Yahoo! Inc.Data ©Navteq,TeleAtlas
An attorney for a woman who accused Denver Nuggets guard J.R. Smith of assaulting her outside a Denver nightclub in October objects to his bid to get all charges dropped in exchange for doing community service and alcohol counseling.

"Essentially, he's trying to avoid accepting full responsibility for his actions," said Fred Bibik, the attorney for the 23-year-old Englewood woman.

The woman accused Smith of spraying her with champagne, grabbing her, tearing her dress and spitting in her face during the Oct. 13 closing-time fracas at Denver's DC10 club, 940 Lincoln St.

Smith, 22, is charged with assault, disturbing the peace and destruction of private property.

Bibik has told Denver city attorney officials the basketball player should plead guilty to the assault charge as part of the plea deal.

But Smith's defense attorney, David Lane, said his client denies anything but spraying the woman and two of her girlfriends with champagne inside the club.

"He got rowdy at a bar, basically, and sprayed a few people with champagne," Lane said.

"From day one he has accepted responsibility and recognized that, 'Look, I've got to keep myself under control. I can't be acting like an idiot anytime, anywhere,' " Smith's attorney added.

Completing counseling and community service is appropriate given Smith's conduct, the defense attorney said.

"This is an alcohol-fueled incident," Lane added. "So, he's willing to and desiring of going through a little alcohol program and maybe doing some community service. And then the city dismisses all charges."

City attorney officials could not be reached immediately for comment, but attorneys for both sides said prosecutors have offered Smith the diversion program.

But his refusal to accept responsibility for all of the alleged conduct may conflict with the written requirements of the diversion program. It allows a defendant to get criminal charges dropped by attending a "rehabilitative program," including counseling, educational programs, restitution and community service.

Yet the program requires that a "defendant accepts responsibility for his or her actions that resulted in the charges as indicated by the police report and/or witness statements," according to Smith's application for the program in court records.

The victim and her two girlfriends both gave police written statements, accusing Smith of spraying them with Moet champagne as the club closed.

A police officer wrote that he "observed the victim's torn dress - no other injuries."

As the club closed, Smith began to apologize outside, the women said. But when his buddies walked up, he "changed attitude," according to a police report.

"He started cussing and spit on me," the woman wrote in her statement. "(He) then proceeded to tell my friend . . . that he was going to beat her up. As I'm trying to settle both parties down, J.R. spits in my face again, grabs me and rips my dress."

A complicating factor for Smith is that New Jersey prosecutors are still reviewing a June 9, 2007, fatal accident where Smith drove his SUV through a stop sign, hitting another car head-on. Smith's best friend was thrown from the SUV and later died. Defendants can't participate in Denver's diversion program if they've been convicted of other crimes within seven years.

[SenorSpur]

....and people call Pietrus dumb

[Mr. Body]

The geniuses of this board thought the Spurs would go after this guy.

[anakha]

The Spurs FO wont make a run at Artest because there fukin pussies. If they didn't even take the risk of trying to sign JR Smith what makes you think they willl to trade for the Ron Ron. Lets get serious here the Spurs never go for the big trades. THEY ARE A BUNCH OF PUSSIES! FIRE RC PUSSYFORD!


Jr Smith Or Get The Fork Out!


JR Smith= Take the fukin risk. Yeah that makes sense what you said give someone the MLE and he JR will be in the dog house the whole time. Thats a stupid comment. JR Smith is human bean and he's going to make mistakes aswell. He deverves a chance to redeme himself. He would of been a great 4th option and he would of fixed our offensive droughts. JR Smith with the Spurs would been like having Stephen Jackson back.



What we need is a scorer like JR to solve our offensive problems. If we don’t get Jr Smith then put a FORK IN THE SPURS.


What the fuck man. This guy isn't going to fix our offenive droughts. What a fukin joke the spurs FO is. Where the fuck is JR Smith why dont we take the fukin risk. Jr Smith is what we need not Roger Mason. STICK A FORK IN THE SPURS.

Owned. :lmao

[nkdlunch]

"This is an alcohol-fueled incident," Lane added. "So, he's willing to and desiring of going through a little alcohol program and maybe doing some community service. And then the city dismisses all charges."


:lmao what a funny statement. basically blaming alcohol.

"little" alcohol program and "maybe" community service. :lol fucking lawyers

[Tully365]

This is my favorite part, when the lawyer is quoted:

"This is an alcohol-fueled incident," Lane added. "So, he's willing to and desiring of going through a little alcohol program and maybe doing some community service. And then the city dismisses all charges."

Sounds like the lawyer really wants J R to accept responsibility for his "guilt." I love the "maybe" doing community service... guess he wants to check Smith's social calendar and see if he could squeeze it in! And a "little" alcohol program-- not a big one, not one that's too involved... just a little one.

[Tully365]

:lmao what a funny statement. basically blaming alcohol.

"little" alcohol program and "maybe" community service. :lol fucking lawyers

Funny-- we posted the same comment at exactly 1:00 PM, with quotes around the same two words...

[nkdlunch]

^ haha I know. u must be a smart one :D

[Tully365]

^ haha I know. u must be a smart one

hey-- I was thinking the same thing.

[ducks]

spurs have tried to get ron before

[DPG21920]

There is no upside to missing out on J.R. Smith. This incident was an old one that the Spurs already knew about. This article was just an update.

[Tully365]

There is no upside to missing out on J.R. Smith. This incident was an old one that the Spurs already knew about. This article was just an update.

True-- but it happened between the last time the Spurs expressed interest and this free agency season. It also casts doubt on the "Smith is learning from his mistakes and maturing" theories. What would he have to do to make you definitely say you don't want him, even if he can shoot?

I feel a lot better having Roger Mason-- a guy that studied architecture in college, designed his own house, learned foreign languages while playing in Europe.... and who plays defense. It's called character. I'd say that's a great move by the FO that is under-appreciated.

[DPG21920]

They are not mutually exclusive events in my mind. You do not have to only like one or the other. I like Mason. J.R. Smith would have been better in my opinion. I am not willing to judge 22 year old's and forsake them. No question he has growing up to do. Could the Spurs have helped him in that cause? In my estimation they would have had as good of a chance as anyone.

[Tully365]

They are not mutually exclusive events in my mind. You do not have to only like one or the other. I like Mason. J.R. Smith would have been better in my opinion. I am not willing to judge 22 year old's and forsake them. No question he has growing up to do. Could the Spurs have helped him in that cause? In my estimation they would have had as good of a chance as anyone.

I'm not forsaking him as a human being-- I'm just not sure I'd want to hire him to work for my company, or organization. There's a fine line between accepting a person with character flaws that can help and simply not having standards at all. The problem I see is his attitude extends to the court-- too many shots, no defense, too much hot-dogging.... I'd rather the Spurs keep the boring label and not compromise their reputation for high standards.

[Tully365]

The biggest upside to not pursuing Smith is the fact that the Spurs come away with Mason-- if Smith had signed an offer sheet, the Nuggets would have dumped Camby and matched, and the Spurs very well might have been unable to sign any free agents.

[wildbill2u]

This is, at least, a real classy guy--he sprayed them with Moet Chandon before tearing her dress and spitting on her.

I'd certainly be willing to have that type of thing happen to my daughter in order to have him play here [sarcasm/]

[DPG21920]

I'm not forsaking him as a human being-- I'm just not sure I'd want to hire him to work for my company, or organization. There's a fine line between accepting a person with character flaws that can help and simply not having standards at all. The problem I see is his attitude extends to the court-- too many shots, no defense, too much hot-dogging.... I'd rather the Spurs keep the boring label and not compromise their reputation for high standards.

Rodman? Glenn Robinson?

Within each industry there are standards of right and wrong. Would you hire him to be a teacher? No. But in the NBA where the players make the money they do for the talents they have, J.R. is not that unacceptable. I think he has standards, but he is just immature. When you give a young person with talent all the money and freedom he wants, then sometimes you get foolishness. Not making excuses, because there are plenty of examples of people in his position making the right decisions, but I feel in this industry he is worth the risk.

He does what his team does. No one plays defense, everyone shoots too much and they all hot-dog. Gino hot-dogs sometimes, so does TP.

One thing I really liked seeing from J.R. was in this last playoffs against the Lakers. He hates to lose. He took it personal that Kobe was shredding the Nuggets and show boating. So he took it upon himself to guard him one-on-one. He was jawing at him and challenging him and never backed down. Given, he got absolutely torched by Kobe, he showed me something that I had not seen before, fire.

[DPG21920]

This is, at least, a real classy guy--he sprayed them with Moet Chandon before tearing her dress and spitting on her.

I'd certainly be willing to have that type of thing happen to my daughter in order to have him play here [sarcasm/]

Why would your angel of a daughter be at a bar at such late hours? Not saying at all that it was her fault in any way, but if you go to clubs and drink, you have to expect things to happen (fights, drinking, dancing...)

[Tully365]

Why would your angel of a daughter be at a bar at such late hours? Not saying at all that it was her fault in any way, but if you go to clubs and drink, you have to expect things to happen (fights, drinking, dancing...)

Now you're being silly, defending JR for his negative actions but questioning the hypothetical judgement of someone who stays out late at a bar? I've stayed out late at bars twice this week and managed not to spit on anybody... or accidentally kill anybody...

going to bars is not inherently bad-- spitting on someone is. That's the difference. Fights and drinking and dancing (peanutbutter jelly time!) happen at basketball games too.

[Guajalote]

Did the "involuntarily killing his best friend" thing happen before the "grabbing, tearing, spitting, spraying" thing?

DPG21920, I agree with your point about giving someone immature and perhaps reckless lots of time and money. It's an unfortunate fact of life.

Maybe he's not a quick learner. It's one thing if the mistakes he's making cost him, but with legal troubles and potential jail time, surely his team has got to be concerned (or any team potentially considering him).

[DPG21920]

Now you're being silly, defending JR for his negative actions but questioning the hypothetical judgement of someone who stays out late at a bar? I've stayed out late at bars twice this week and managed not to spit on anybody... or accidentally kill anybody...

going to bars is not inherently bad-- spitting on someone is. That's the difference. Fights and drinking and dancing (peanutbutter jelly time!) happen at basketball games too.

Tully, I clearly said that I am not saying it was the girls fault at all. But it is funny how people always assume there side is innocent. If you dress like Halloween, then you will surround yourself with ghouls is all I am saying.

I go out to bars, I am a mature and peaceful person, yet I still have been put in situations that are less than desirable.

[ambchang]

I don't understand why anyone would want JR Smith after what he did in 07 playoffs, he managed to help the Spurs playing for the other team because of his refusal to play team basketball, defend, and basically use his brain on the court.

He is like Stephon Marbury, only less talented.

[ducks]

you do know
pop drinks wine
that is alcohol

holt also checked him because of a alcohol problem


spurs just gave pop a new title and he likes alcohol


just because smith likes alcohol does not make them not want him

spurs thought the nuggets would cut someone to make room for jr and they did
camby

spurs still could be very interested in this dude

[ducks]

I don't understand why anyone would want JR Smith after what he did in 07 playoffs, he managed to help the Spurs playing for the other team because of his refusal to play team basketball, defend, and basically use his brain on the court.

He is like Stephon Marbury, only less talented.

last year he was the only one that showed heart against the lakers in playoffs

[Tully365]

In rhetoric, that's called paralipsis: stating and drawing attention to something while pretending to pass it over:

"Why would your angel of a daughter be at a bar at such late hours? Not saying at all that it was her fault in any way..."

Oldest trick in the book. Maybe you should join Smith's legal team!

[Tully365]

you do know
pop drinks wine
that is alcohol

holt also checked him because of a alcohol problem


spurs just gave pop a new title and he likes alcohol


just because smith likes alcohol does not make them not want him

spurs thought the nuggets would cut someone to make room for jr and they did
camby

spurs still could be very interested in this dude

I'm not talking about alcohol. I'm talking about behavior. Do you spit on girls after a few gin and tonics? Most people do not behave that way. "Liking alcohol" is very different from "making terrible mistakes when drinking." That's what I mean.

[DPG21920]

In rhetoric, that's called paralipsis: stating and drawing attention to something iwhile pretending to pass it over:

"Why would your angel of a daughter be at a bar at such late hours? Not saying at all that it was her fault in any way..."

Oldest trick in the book. Maybe you should join Smith's legal team!

In abstract writing it is called interpretation: a conception of another's behavior!
Was not trying to use a paralipsis. But I now have added a new word to my vocabulary!

[DPG21920]

I'm not talking about alcohol. I'm talking about behavior. Do you spit on girls after a few gin and tonics? Most people do not behave that way. "Liking alcohol" is very different from "making terrible mistakes when drinking." That's what I mean.

I know what you are saying. Very true. My point was that although the acts are undefended, that I do not think they stem from malice, just immaturity.

But either way, he is out of the picture at least for now and there are some character issues that need to be addressed.

[ambchang]

last year he was the only one that showed heart against the lakers in playoffs

Getting continuously burned by Kobe? I saw that, great heart.
BTW, I missed the part where Pop got drunk in public, sprayed champagne, spat and ripped the shirt of a woman, great analogy, emphasis on anal.

[ducks]

who does not get burned by kobe



QUESTION

[ducks]

denver star does not play d so no one thinks they do

it all starts with the franchise player

[jag]

The geniuses of this board thought the Spurs would go after this guy.

I'm pretty sure everyone around the league thought the spurs would be going after this guy.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

The other upside is that Smith is a LOSER. Sure, he has great athleticism and range, but he makes poor decisions and the word "team" is not in his vocab. He singlehandedly loses games for the Nuggets, and we don't need players like that.

I'm glad we never made a run at him, and am proud to say that I've maintained that stance since people first mentioned him 2 years ago.

[anakha]

http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/4/7/18/f_ownedm_696c0a8.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/7/18/f_ownedm_696c0a8.jpg&srv=img29)

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[ehz33satx]

Even J.R. Smith's own coach, George Karl, has stated that Smith makes a travesty of the game. I for one am glad he won't be coming over to the Spurs. Can you imagine how high the top of Coach Pop's head would fly if Smith played for the Spurs and he tries to pad his stats by tossing up a shot at the opponents backboard just to try to get his own rebound, after the play is over!

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

It's funny how so many fans here wanted JR badly when he was available, but now that the Spurs have no chance, all of a sudden he becomes the biggest idiot in the NBA.

Kinda like how i hate Manu with a passion but yet id love him if he was on the Nuggets :lol

JR has done some dumb things but people can grow up and change. He would have been great as a Spur. Roger Mason will be great, but less risk and less reward.

[anakha]

It's funny how so many fans here wanted JR badly when he was available, but now that the Spurs have no chance, all of a sudden he becomes the biggest idiot in the NBA.


Are you trying to say that the reported incident had nothing to do with that? :lol



JR has done some dumb things but people can grow up and change. He would have been great as a Spur. Roger Mason will be great, but less risk and less reward.

For his sake, he'd better.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Are you trying to say that the reported incident had nothing to do with that? :lol


Of course the Spurs organisation took those kind of things into consideration, but don't try and tell me the majority of fans here at Spurstalk actually did. They wanted him coz they know the reward will be great if he gets his head screwed on straight.

[anakha]

Of course the Spurs organisation took those kind of things into consideration, but don't try and tell me the majority of fans here at Spurstalk actually did. They wanted him coz they know the reward will be great if he gets his head screwed on straight.

High risk, high reward. Flashy trades or acquisitions. Attention-grabbing moves.

Some spoiled fans wouldn't be content with anything else.

[ambchang]

who does not get burned by kobe



QUESTION

Pistons, Celtics ...

[Mr. Body]

I'm pretty sure everyone around the league thought the spurs would be going after this guy.

Nah. He has anti-Spurs DNA in his blood. Everyone knows this.

[The Truth #6]

High risk, high reward. Flashy trades or acquisitions. Attention-grabbing moves.

Some spoiled fans wouldn't be content with anything else.

I don't know, I think some fans realized we need a player who can score and JR Smith was the best scorer available. If we have to lean heavily on the Big 3 again during the regular season, then it doesn't help our chances in the playoffs. I think most fans recognized the risk but thought to stay on top it was worth rolling the dice. Roger Mason is not going to solve our scoring problems though he will be a good team player. Now, there is more pressure on Ian and whoever else to help out with the scoring.

[The Franchise]

I think the tearing of the the dress and spitting part was fabricated by this woman. Her story doesn't sound right. Why would he apologize, then start cursing you and tear your dress? I'm sorry,so sorry, STUPID FUCKING BITCH!!! RIPPPPPP!!!!! Does that sound believable? I think this is just a setup for a civil trial. That woman is just seeing :greedy:greedy:greedy

[K-State Spur]

Kinda like how i hate Manu with a passion but yet id love him if he was on the Nuggets :lol

There's nothing lovable about some of these recent events. It's a little bit different than flopping in an effort to help your team win.



He would have been great as a Spur.

No doubt. But since the Nuggets would match anyways, all of this discussion is really moot. The Spurs FO never had to make a decision based on character.

[SenorSpur]

It's funny how so many fans here wanted JR badly when he was available, but now that the Spurs have no chance, all of a sudden he becomes the biggest idiot in the NBA.



Now that part I agree with - especially considering how much venom has been spewed about Mickael Pietrus' BBIQ. As if Smith, while extremely talented, is some hoops Einstein.

[Tully365]

Now that part I agree with - especially considering how much venom has been spewed about Mickael Pietrus' BBIQ. As if Smith, while extremely talented, is some hoops Einstein.

I agree. I liked Pietrus over Smith from day 1 of free agency because I thought he was a better fit with the Spurs. Smith will keep shooting the ball until told to stop-- he's a good scorer, but not so good that I'd want to risk team chemistry, and definitely not so good that I'd want him to think of himself as an option equal to or better than Tim, Tony, or Manu. He's not crazy about passing, and he's not especially enthusiastic about defense. True, he tried to D up Kobe in the playoffs, but that strikes me as a Jerome James-type of move: spotlight + contract year= extra effort. It can't erase 3 years of defensive disinterest.
We'll see what happens this year with him. Maybe the lack of offers this time around will humble him, and help him to mature. If that happens and he's unrestricted next year, it might be a different story. Though by then, Mason might a solid part of the rotation, meaning the SG position would be pretty solid, making the SF position priority #1.

[MarHill]

I have never been a fan of JR Smith. His athleticism and playmaking ability are good. But his basketball IQ is LOW!!!

I've seen him in the three years of the playoffs and he has questionable shot selection.

Yes...he can get hot (like he did in the Lakers' series). But on the Spurs shot selection is important and coming down to jack up shots would drive Pop crazy!!!

Is he a talent, yes!! But he has to grow-up on the basketball court as well as off the court.

He is definitely high risk, high reward. I would pass on him right now...though!!

[wildbill2u]

Even J.R. Smith's own coach, George Karl, has stated that Smith makes a travesty of the game. I for one am glad he won't be coming over to the Spurs. Can you imagine how high the top of Coach Pop's head would fly if Smith played for the Spurs and he tries to pad his stats by tossing up a shot at the opponents backboard just to try to get his own rebound, after the play is over!

Karl is not the only coach that Smith has had trouble with because of his attitude. He was benched by Byron Scott in NO and later traded to Denver.

Not every four year player has immaturity issues that get him into trouble both outside the locker room and within. It's a shame that a talented guy can't get it together.

I question whether Pop's original interest in the guy has been sustained after his stint in Denver where his behaviour has reinforced the image of a player with problems first diagnosed by Byron White. Coaches talk.

[lefty]

Fuck JR Smith

[ducks]

euro bound?