I need advice from the Spurstalk community

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

..

[midgetonadonkey]

Tell him to grow a pair.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Tell him to grow a pair.

Done that many times over the years. It didn't seem to work. He's still ball-less.

[midgetonadonkey]

Lend him one of yours.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

If I go off on Janet I'm sure she'll tighten the noose on Dave's nutsack even more.





Winner.

You can't say anything. It's up to your bro, not you.

Your bro is paying the price for being sackless and not dropping the hammer on his wife long ago.

I'm the youngest of six brothers so I've seen quite a few trainwrecks in my 33 years.

Dave is fucked.

[johnsmith]

Here's the situation,

I am the oldest of four brothers, and the four of us have planned a 3 1/2 day golf trip to Denver for late August. Two of my brothers are in their 20's and the oldest of the three, Dave, is only a year younger than me. Only the baby of the group is single, and brother number three, Mike, has a baby due in October.

Anyway, we've got the trip completely planned, flights picked, hotel chosen, golf courses chosen, etc., when now Dave's wife, Janet, has told him that if he goes on this trip without her that he's choosing other people over her, and that she doesn't want to become one of those couples that takes separate vacations.

The ironic thing in this is that a few years back Janet's mom took Janet and her sisters on two trips to Europe that did not include my brother Dave. Janet's mom has since passed away, and for some reason, these trips without Dave are completely justifiable by Janet, but Dave's brothers weekend is somehow different according to her.

So Dave calls me and says to hold off on the reservations that he's not sure he is going. Needless to say I was disappointed and angry. He was looking to big brother to somehow make things better --- he asked me if I'd talk to his wife for him.

Basically I don't know what I'd say. A couple of years back she alienated herself from my wife by being pretty hateful, and so now I rarely see my brother, which is sad because he and I have always been close.

My baby brother is potentially taking a job in Chicago in the spring, and with Mike's wife's baby coming in October I know he'll be busy being a new dad for at least the next year and a half. My dad died suddenly, two years ago, and so I'm painfully aware that nothing in this life is a given, and so I was really looking forward to this trip. Dave's the one that the other three brothers see the least (due to his controlling wife) and so this trip was really being based upon him being there.

Dave is a former college football player. He is a superintendent for a large Arizona construction company and deals with some tough characters every single day on his job, but with his wife his balls shrivel up and disappear.

What should I do? What advice should I give? If I go off on Janet I'm sure she'll tighten the noose on Dave's nutsack even more.



The Chopper is stumped and looking for answers. I know the answers are here.


Help!

My brothers and I also have problems similar to this from time to time. There are three of us and whenever we make plans, inevitably, one of the wives tries to screw it up.

We have since fixed this problem by teaming up and talking sense into whichever wife is causing problems. I would seriously call his wife, explain to her that four brothers going on a golf trip is not only innocent, but it's something that isn't going to come along all that often for the rest of your lives. I can't imagine letting something or someone come between the relationship my brothers and I have so you really just have to put your foot down.

Have your bro plan something for his wife to do during that weekend too. She seems needy, wanty, and annoying, so with her being selfish, she'll need something to get over the fact that her husband likes doing things without her too.

[BacktoBasics]

This should have been PM'd to me.

I would have a knock down drag out fight with his wife. Since your brother isn't capable of calling her on her shit you'll have to. Since you guys don't see much of each other because of her you have nothing to lose. The situation is already fucked up. Might as well clear the air.

Then privately tell her you can make her disappear if she continues to make your relationship with your brother a strain.

[johnsmith]

Oh, and which courses are you playing?

[peewee's lovechild]

To hell with Dave's wife.

Just tell her that this trip is as important to you guys as her trips with her mother were important to her. If she gives you a "mom's dead now" type of thing, tell her that she should understand it that much more because your father passed and you're trying to spend more time with your brothers.

Fuck her. Don't stop visiting your brother because of her. If you can't go over there, invite him to your house. Or, just hang out with each other over the weekend.

Do your part. If your brother doesn't want to, well it's his loss.

I'm going throught the same thing with my older brother.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Janet has told him that if he goes on this trip without her that he's choosing other people over her, and that she doesn't want to become one of those couples that takes separate vacations.

She sounds like a pleasure to be around.

[johnsmith]

She sounds like a pleasure to be around.

I've often wondered what drives men to marry women with personalities like this.

[ATRAIN]

Your brother should plan a vacation with her on top of this so she can shut the hell up. If I ever marry a person like that I might have to choke a bitch!!

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I've often wondered what drives men to marry women with personalities like this.

I can somewhat understand if it was his frat buddies, but his brothers?

You nailed it earlier; needy, selfish and annoying.

[Soul_Patch]

Things like this make me realize how good i have it.


I couldnt take it if my wife was like this. We have a great relationship but also know when to push and when to let go.

[Spurminator]

If you MUST talk to her... If you're antagonistic with her that will just make her hold her ground even more. Give her a call, let her explain her concerns, then talk to her about the trip so she'll understand that it's a harmless brothers trip and it wouldn't be as enjoyable if one of you couldn't be there.

She's being a stupid and unreasonable bitch but the thing about stupid people is that they dig in even more when they are made to realize they are wrong about something. You have to make her think it's her decision to let him go. Make her think she's somehow being benevolent and generous, even though she's only doing what a reasonable, secure wife would do in this situation.

Failing that, invite her along and organize a mountain-side "accident" that will take her out of the picture.

[Brutalis]

Ah the ole jealous wife wants to always know what's going on and be included thing.

What I would do is sit the guy down and explain to him you have to decide now how it's going to be.

1. Do not speak to his wife. That is not your job at all and what good could come from it? In the end it would only piss her off and she'd chew your brother out for it creating more problems.

2. Tell your brother that this trip is one of those 'we did that' type things. The boys hooking up one last time now would be easier to do than in the future. Have him tell his wife that you guys need this for reasons more than just hanging out. To commune with your family and have something to cherish long after it's over. That one of you may pass suddenly and it will be a burden on a heart that he had to miss the trip or something of that sort. Guilt trip her but in the right way.

3. If your brother won't do the above then explain to him his wife is not the boss. If she threatens their relationship or the foundation in which they root from, over spending time with your brothers that she is basically showing selfishness and not considering his thoughts, feelings, and where his heart is at. Tell your brother that hey, if she can't accept this trip then what's it going to be next? If she is that insecure about a trip with brothers, what do you think is going to happen in the future?

In a nice brotherly way of course.

My ex girlfriend had some big deal about me going to a Razorbacks basketball game one Saturday with the boys, then after going camping that night and all day Saturday, then Sunday coming back. All because she felt left out. I told her basically if she can't let me do this and trust me, and understand we all need space from each other if not for time to just regroup but just time amongst your boys to have fun and relax away from the world and that it has nothing to do with my love for you or anything of that sort, that she is putting me in a position that makes me feel like I cannot be independent nor be allowed to make my own decisions even though they are pure and just. She thought it over and realized that very point and said her I'm sorry and I went and had a blast. And when I came back let me tell you- I missed her so much we had one wild night in the sack bud and she joking asked "are you sure you won't be going on any man time trips?" Obviously enjoying how I came back rejuvenated and you know, hungry for her.

Basically what this woman is showing is insecurity and not very much trust at all. Whether or not she is afraid he will cheat or you guys are going to some strip club without her knowing is something a lot of girls always have in the back of their mind regardless. To me it sounds like she just needs reassurance that everything is okay and that if he can't have time with his brothers it just shows bigger problems down the road.

As a last resort if nothing works, I would talk to her if I was you anyways. Tell her that you know, we need him and this trip. We might not ever get together like this again in our lives and I want us all to be able to have memories, pictures and just something in our hearts to take with his for the rest of our lives. That he will call you during the trip to let you know all is well and that he loves you. And if you truly love him you would let him go because he needs it, not because he wants it. Get all sensitive about it.

Hope that helps.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Women are batshit crazy. It gets proven time and time again.

Last year, my SIL told my brother she would divorce him if he didn't agree to buy this particular house she wanted. She took their two kids and walked out on him and he stayed with me. He's 43 and was asking me for advice. I told him to take her up on her offer of the divorce. It will only get worse if you bow down and give in to her, I told him, and guess what? It has. Stupid fucker is miserable when she's around.

She's such a cunt.

[Spurminator]

My wife has always been very cool about stuff like this. Part of it is probably that I have no game whatsoever so she's not really worried about anything happening, but still... hearing about stuff like this is baffling.

[degenerate_gambler]

Women are batshit crazy. It gets proven time and time again.

Last year, my SIL told my brother she would divorce him if he didn't agree to buy this particular house she wanted. She took their two kids and walked out on him and he stayed with me. He's 43 and was asking me for advice. I told him to take her up on her offer of the divorce. It will only get worse if you bow down and give in to her, I told him, and guess what? It has. Stupid fucker is miserable when she's around.

She's such a cunt.



dude, THAT is fucked up..

[Brutalis]

Women are batshit crazy. It gets proven time and time again.

Last year, my SIL told my brother she would divorce him if he didn't agree to buy this particular house she wanted. She took their two kids and walked out on him and he stayed with me. He's 43 and was asking me for advice. I told him to take her up on her offer of the divorce. It will only get worse if you bow down and give in to her, I told him, and guess what? It has. Stupid fucker is miserable when she's around.

She's such a cunt.

Women are possessive. After being together for a while some start treating you like you are an object in the purse. After me and my ex broke up, I vowed to never let that happen again.

So with my current gf, I told her at the get go when things got serious: "Fallon, I will not sacrifice my feelings for your well being. Meaning if I feel or think something I am saying it and you are either accepting it or walking the line." She understood I wasn't being some jackass, and knew I only meant don't ever treat me like you are the boss and I am at any time a key without a door. And we've been great ever since as the whole thing was mutual.

[Kori Ellis]

If you have to talk to her, I would suggest just repeating this part of your post ...


My baby brother is potentially taking a job in Chicago in the spring, and with Mike's wife's baby coming in October I know he'll be busy being a new dad for at least the next year and a half. My dad died suddenly, two years ago, and so I'm painfully aware that nothing in this life is a given, and so ALL OF US are really looking forward to this trip.

She really needs to understand that her husband isn't wanting to go on a strip club tour of America with three guys he's met a the local NUDE! NUDE! NUDE! club last weekend. He's wanting to spend time with three men that are very important in his life and will have little time to get together in the future. If the trip is as important to your brother as it is to you (I'm sure it is), then he needs to be the one drawing the line in the sand with his wife .. not the other way around.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

dude, THAT is fucked up..

More than you know. They've been married for 11 years and she still calls my mom and dad Mr. and Mrs.

My sister and brother used to live two doors down from each other. My sister had a birthday party for her son and my brother and his wife had a wedding to go to. Instead of just having her kids stay at my sister's with their grandparents, aunts and uncles, etc., she instead got a sitter and forbade her kids from coming over. She told the sitter she'd fire her if she found out that her kids went to their cousin's birthday party. Her son sat by the fence the entire time and just watched all of his family enjoy a kid's bday party without him.

I'll never forget the look on his face.

I wanted to punch her in the throat for doing that to her own child.

[MannyIsGod]

Sounds like my best friends wife. I don't understand when significant others can't realize that there is a need to do things with people OUTSIDE of your relationship too.

Anyway, I think John Smith laid out the best advice in this thread.

[boutons_]

What's happens in a married couple is not anybody's fucking business but theirs.

[MannyIsGod]

I've often wondered what drives men to marry women with personalities like this.

IMO insecurity has to a lot to do with it on both sides.

[ATRAIN]

What's happens in a married couple is not anybody's fucking business but theirs.

To a certain extent your right. The way I see it is if it affects family then it affects me.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Man, that's a rough situation. I will say that your instincts are right. You going off on her is going to make the whole thing worse. If I may play arm chair psychologist for a moment, controlling people tend to have pretty big egos at the core of themselves. And the bigger they are, the softer they are, so when someone tries to buck what they perceive as their authority (as I think Dave's wife is doing) they'll only get worse. So stroke her ego instead of trying to kick it in the teeth. Let her know what a wonderful person she'll be for letting Dave do this guilt free. My script would look something like this:

"Dave loves you a lot. It kills him to say or do anything that upsets you, which is why he asked me to talk to you. As soon as he sees that something makes you unhappy he'll take a back seat to your feelings in a heartbeat. He's been doing that for the people he loves his entire life {SFIE's note: It doesn't matter if that's an outright lie. The one tactical advantage you've got on your side is history here. You've known Dave longer, you get to make this claim.} So being stuck in a position where he feels like his only options are two choices that will hurt someone he loves either way is like a knife in his gut. Opportunities like this are only going to be tougher to come by for the four of us the longer things go. And if this situation doesn't change I know that Dave is going to stay here. He knows that no amount of fun that we could have is going to be enough to make up for upsetting you.

{Now you break out the big guns} When our dad died, as the eldest I kind of became the one that everyone looked to when a problem came up. I'm still not used to that and I don't know if I ever will be. I've got two brothers that this would mean the world expecting me to find the right words to make this whole thing work for Dave and the simple truth is that I can't. You can. Letting Dave on this trip guilt free would make a lot of people's lives a lot brighter. A few words and one weekend. It's a small price to pay for someone you love."

[johnsmith]

What's happens in a married couple is not anybody's fucking business but theirs.

:rolleyes

So what's your advice then boutons?

[Sherlock Holmes]

Tell him to go watch the Dark Knight.

[Fillmoe]

leave wifey with fillmoe for a few days... i guarantee she wont complain, let alone call "dave"

[Sec24Row7]

Yeah.. and people wonder why I'm not married...

[CosmicCowboy]

Tell her she can come but only if she pulls the train...

Seriously Chopper...you sure your brother didn't get switched at the hospital?

He just needs to tell her it's important to him and he's going. You need to stay out of it. If she leaves him for something stupid like this then it would just be something else next year...until he stands up to her the bar will continue to get lowered.

[Shelly]

Screw, Dave!

I'll send my husband in his place. I need a break!

[easjer]

You know what? I think your extincts are pretty right on. I think Kori and SFIE have both hit on things you can say. Be honest and open with both of them.

Although trying to get Dave to tell Janet these things may be better, so she can't throw a fit because he's talking about her behind her back.

This was hard for me to read. A lot of SFIE's family thinks of me the way you think of Janet, though without cause. It's not the truth in my case, and SFIE does a good job of not making things my fault, and I do a good job of letting him see his family and friends as he wants to (he's a grown man who can make his own decisions). But there is still the reputation and so I'm sensitive to this and don't want to insert my own history into my advice; but do remember that you may not be seeing a full picture and as boutons_ implies, there are things going on within that marriage that you don't know about. The fact that he's asked for you deal with this instead of him puzzles me a lot. She is his wife, and based on what you said, this sort of talking and interference is not going to sit well with her.

I hope it works out. It's a good thing for people to reconnect at the basis of who they are - in this case, just as brothers. Not brothers/husbands/fathers/in-laws - just back to basics for awhile. It's a special, important thing to do in all close relationships and for the individuals involved. Make sure Dave knows plainly what is at stake here - it's not just gallavanting for the weekend.

[Fillmoe]

tell david his vagina is bleeding

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

...until he stands up to her the bar will continue to get lowered.

Exactly.

[mrsmaalox]

Damn how long have they been married? Her insecurity about things like that should be fading. I really think it's your brother's place to deal with his wife; if he doesn't make the trip, it's his fault not hers. Of course she's gotten away with that behavior so changing it won't be easy. If you decide to talk to her about it (I wouldn't) the best approach is SFIE's; you technically are the patriarch now. Just make sure she knows this is not going to become a "habit", just a one time thing. Sounds like she can't stand to be alone with herself.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

This is all great advice. I knew the Spurstalkers would come through!!

You all have certainly confirmed a lot of my own thoughts on this whole thing. I think my first move will be to re-affirm for my brother a lot of the points that you all have made regarding family, and the real purpose for this trip, and then advise him to discuss these items with her. As many of you have noted, staying out of their discussion would be best if possible...I think.

I also know they talked for "several hours" about this, according to Dave, already, so I have doubts he'll make much headway. So step two will be me talking to Janet...and I think JohnSmith's idea is a great one, if I make no headway alone, for step 3 I'll have brothers 3 and 4 talk to Dave as well. I think I'll print SFIE's script and distribute it to the three of us.

CC's comment about the bar being lowered is exactly what I've witnessed over the years. My brother has been married for 17 years now. As I mentioned, he's a former athlete and his wife was a psychology major. He doesn't usually say much, and she is a great manipulator. She could convince him that a blue sky is reallygreen...I've seen her in action. Over the years she's slowly separated him from his family, and has become more and more controlling. Easjer, from what I know about you I doubt you are anything like my sister-in-law. Doug Christie's wife might be better than Janet.

Some examples of her domineering ways...she keeps a two column notebook on the counter and when my brother comes home everyday she makes him write down what he spent money on...if he went to the ATM, etc. She reviews his daily spending, but he told me he hasn't seen one of her receipts, or even one of their bank statements in years....and he outearns her 3 to 1, but I've seen him ask her permission to take a little cash out of the ATM before like none of it is his. He keeps a little cash stash hidden from her that he uses to go have a beer with the fellas or buy a new golf club or whatever else she wouldn't approve of...like have a little fun without her. They've got plenty of money so it's just a control thing.

Another example...I was in Phoenix on a business trip a couple of weeks ago and I took an extra day there to be with him. I specifically planned it so I'd be at his house when she was normally teaching/working out/etc. When she heard I was coming she rearranged her schedule and spent the entire day with us. And when she's with us she dominates the conversation. I probably had 5 minutes of actual conversation with Dave.

Example three...my brother and his wife flew to NM when one of my cousins from Atlanta came to town specifically to go skiing with us about 5 years ago. They come into town and Janet was dealing with a sore knee and decided not to ski. She convinced Dave that he shouldn't ski either because she said she didn't want him injuring himself and not being able to work at his job (which at the time he was still working directly on jobsites quite a bit). All this after they flew out knowing we all were going skiing. My cousin was mystified, and hasn't been out to visit since. I don't blame him.

I told her one time that if she were my wife I'd of divorced and/or killed her by now. She laughed like I was joking. I wasn't joking. That's why I'm really hoping to be able to talk to her in a calm manner because my instinct is to pull out the pimp hand. This thread has given me a chance to simmer a bit...thankfully.

Anyway...all this affirms a lot for me, and I sincerely appreciate it. I think at this point I'm more disappointed in Dave than anything else, but he's essentially in an abusive relationship and I'm trying to remind myself of that.

I'll keep you posted.

[Kori Ellis]

Some examples of her domineering ways...she keeps a two column notebook on the counter and when my brother comes home everyday she makes him write down what he spent money on...if he went to the ATM, etc. She reviews his daily spending, but he told me he hasn't seen one of her receipts, or even one of their bank statements in years....and he outearns her 3 to 1, but I've seen him ask her permission to take a little cash out of the ATM before like none of it is his. He keeps a little cash stash hidden from her that he uses to go have a beer with the fellas or buy a new golf club or whatever else she wouldn't approve of...like have a little fun without her. They've got plenty of money so it's just a control thing.

Yikes!

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Yikes!

Exactly...who would stay married to a person like that?

[johnsmith]

So which courses do you have lined up in Denver.............if you haven't lined up Arrowhead yet........do it.

[leemajors]

Here's the situation,

I am the oldest of four brothers, and the four of us have planned a 3 1/2 day golf trip to Denver for late August. Two of my brothers are in their 20's and the oldest of the three, Dave, is only a year younger than me. Only the baby of the group is single, and brother number three, Mike, has a baby due in October.

Anyway, we've got the trip completely planned, flights picked, hotel chosen, golf courses chosen, etc., when now Dave's wife, Janet, has told him that if he goes on this trip without her that he's choosing other people over her, and that she doesn't want to become one of those couples that takes separate vacations.

The ironic thing in this is that a few years back Janet's mom took Janet and her sisters on two trips to Europe that did not include my brother Dave. Janet's mom has since passed away, and for some reason, these trips without Dave are completely justifiable by Janet, but Dave's brothers weekend is somehow different according to her.

So Dave calls me and says to hold off on the reservations that he's not sure he is going. Needless to say I was disappointed and angry. He was looking to big brother to somehow make things better --- he asked me if I'd talk to his wife for him.

Basically I don't know what I'd say. A couple of years back she alienated herself from my wife by being pretty hateful, and so now I rarely see my brother, which is sad because he and I have always been close.

My baby brother is potentially taking a job in Chicago in the spring, and with Mike's wife's baby coming in October I know he'll be busy being a new dad for at least the next year and a half. My dad died suddenly, two years ago, and so I'm painfully aware that nothing in this life is a given, and so I was really looking forward to this trip. Dave's the one that the other three brothers see the least (due to his controlling wife) and so this trip was really being based upon him being there.

Dave is a former college football player. He is a superintendent for a large Arizona construction company and deals with some tough characters every single day on his job, but with his wife his balls shrivel up and disappear.

What should I do? What advice should I give? If I go off on Janet I'm sure she'll tighten the noose on Dave's nutsack even more.



The Chopper is stumped and looking for answers. I know the answers are here.


Help!
just try not to take it personally. go with the rest and have a good time. she'll get sorted eventually, and he probably knows it's a mistake anyway. just ignore it to the best your ability - if he doesn't know how to deal with her now, any family interference would probably worsen the situation.

edit: i just read the entire thread. CC was spot on, as were johnsmith and DLF. the only thing i would still recommend is trying not to take it personally, the decision has nothing to do with you or your brothers. she sounds horrible, but then again who knows what really goes on with them.

[BacktoBasics]

Exactly...who would stay married to a person like that?Maybe she just keeps tight books. If they have a good life and a shit load of money in the bank its tough to argue with an anal book keeper.

Look I'm not trying to be a dick about things but far too often people look for the passive almost not aggressive approach to things thinking that they'll make headway with an overbearing dominant bitch. It'll never work. That mentality is horseshit.

The only way to handle a women like that is to fight fire with fire and endure the burn longer than she can. She'll snap and come to her senses but only if you're willing to stay in the fire long enough. You have to match her toe for toe or she'll always get her way. Since you have absolutely nothing to lose by butting heads with her I recommend waging the war. Its the only way things will change. You can't and never will be able to level with a dominate bitch...they don't respond to common passive sense.

[Kriz-Maxima]

She sounds like a bitch.

Sorry i have no advice, just wanted to share that.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

So which courses do you have lined up in Denver.............if you haven't lined up Arrowhead yet........do it.

I haven't heard of Arrowhead...I'll Google it and check it out.



Right now we're looking at BearDance near Castle Rock, Foxtrot in Lakewood, and The Ridge at Castle Pines. But the trip is still far enough out to make a change or two.

[johnsmith]

I haven't heard of Arrowhead...I'll Google it and check it out.



Right now we're looking at BearDance near Castle Rock, Foxtrot in Lakewood, and The Ridge at Castle Pines. But the trip is still far enough out to make a change or two.

As soon as you see the front page of arrowheads website, you'll change your plans.

Beardance and the Ridge are nice courses, you'll enjoy them. I've never played Foxtrot though.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Holy shit. Seriously, if you flipped the genders and put that couple on Dr. Phil, everyone and their dog would be calling that kind of controlling demeanor disturbing, even borderline abusive. But since it's a guy everyone just calls him whipped and laughs at it. That's seriously unhealthy.

And I'm guessing that posting this on an internet forum without going to my copyright lawyer first means that I won't be able to charge royalties if Ed uses my script. Son of a bitch.

[easjer]

I keep most of our finances as well, and ask SFIE for expenses - but he also knows where to find my expenses and I run my big expenses past him first to make sure he is comfortable with where we are - mutual accountability.

You are completely correct - that is controlling behavior.

What a nightmare. Your plan is a sound one. I don't personally think a bit of guilt for Dave is amiss here either (a la SFIE's script).

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Look I'm not trying to be a dick about things but far too often people look for the passive almost not aggressive approach to things thinking that they'll make headway with an overbearing dominant bitch. It'll never work. That mentality is horseshit.

The only way to handle a women like that is to fight fire with fire and endure the burn longer than she can. She'll snap and come to her senses but only if you're willing to stay in the fire long enough. You have to match her toe for toe or she'll always get her way. Since you have absolutely nothing to lose by butting heads with her I recommend waging the war. Its the only way things will change. You can't and never will be able to level with a dominate bitch...they don't respond to common passive sense.

My wife thinks like you do. That's why she and Janet don't talk these days...Mrs. Chopper wouldn't let Janet manipulate her and drew the line in the sand and the two of them had it out. I think their situation makes my mom and some of the more passive members of the family uncomfortable, but I'll tell you, it's certainly healthier for my wife.

It might come to this, B2B...I'm hoping it won't, but sadly that's probably step 4. I might have to be bold with my brother, too, and tell him that at the rate we're going he and I are never going to see each other again.

This whole thing is supposed to be fun and it's turning into crap. I told my wife when we started planning this thing that it probably won't go well, but Dave is the one who originally asked for this trip, so I had my hopes going in.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Holy shit. Seriously, if you flipped the genders and put that couple on Dr. Phil, everyone and their dog would be calling that kind of controlling demeanor disturbing, even borderline abusive. But since it's a guy everyone just calls him whipped and laughs at it. That's seriously unhealthy.

And I'm guessing that posting this on an internet forum without going to my copyright lawyer first means that I won't be able to charge royalties if Ed uses my script. Son of a bitch.

If it works with Janet Christie I'll market it and split the royalties with you. We'll both be millionaires.

[BacktoBasics]

My wife thinks like you do. That's why she and Janet don't talk these days...Mrs. Chopper wouldn't let Janet manipulate her and drew the line in the sand and the two of them had it out. I think their situation makes my mom and some of the more passive members of the family uncomfortable, but I'll tell you, it's certainly healthier for my wife.

It might come to this, B2B...I'm hoping it won't, but sadly that's probably step 4. I might have to be bold with my brother, too, and tell him that at the rate we're going he and I are never going to see each other again.

This whole thing is supposed to be fun and it's turning into crap. I told my wife when we started planning this thing that it probably won't go well, but Dave is the one who originally asked for this trip, so I had my hopes going in.I would tell this bitch I wished she was dead and gone. Sounds like she's hellbent on tearing the closeness of your family apart. It probably won't work but I'd do everything I could to let her know you and your family would be much happier if she accidently fell off a cliff into a wood chipper which then accidently wraps a chain around her leg and magically drags her to the depths of the Pacific.

[dirk4mvp]

Is his wife fine as hell or something?

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

For the record, I agree with B2B. After 17 years, any sort of major and meaningful, permanent change or solution is going to be after a nasty, emotionally violent confrontation, and one that is coming whether Dave and Janet know it or not. You can only twist someone or something for so long before it breaks. But that's another fight for down the line. I'm assuming that time is a factor on this, so I think finesse approach is what you need if you're just trying to get Dave on the plane.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I keep most of our finances as well, and ask SFIE for expenses - but he also knows where to find my expenses and I run my big expenses past him first to make sure he is comfortable with where we are - mutual accountability.

You are completely correct - that is controlling behavior.

What a nightmare. Your plan is a sound one. I don't personally think a bit of guilt for Dave is amiss here either (a la SFIE's script).

Mrs. Chopper keeps the books and pays the bills on our mutual account, but we both have a separate checking account as well. She loves shopping for clothes, I like the occassional big purchase. I've learned that I'd rather not know the details of her spending so I just don't look.

She and I have been together 17 years too, but we have learned that we each like to do a lot of things that the other one doesn't. I probably take two or three small trips a year either by myself or with friends that don't include her. I love basketball and sports and she doesn't. We respect the other person's need for individuality, and also the need to just "be" once in awhile. When she and I are together we are great, and when we're not we're still great. I encourage her to do things with her friends, and so Janet is like an alien species to me. I just have never gotten her.

[BacktoBasics]

For the record, I agree with B2B. After 17 years, any sort of major and meaningful, permanent change or solution is going to be after a nasty, emotionally violent confrontation, and one that is coming whether Dave and Janet know it or not. You can only twist someone or something for so long before it breaks But that's another fight for down the line. I'm assuming that time is a factor on this, so I think finesse approach is what you need if you're just trying to get Dave on the plane.If she ends up reluctantely letting him go she'll make him regret it for the rest of his life. If he steps foot on that plane having massaged the situation to get there he might as well never come home.

[timvp]

I'm also the oldest of four brothers (now I know why EHJ is cool :smokin) and I would not recommend calling her. Especially since you said she has a propensity to talk over you. There is like a 99% chance that all that will happen is she and you end up pissed off at the end of the conversation. Then she will tighten the noose on your brother and he'll halfway blame you. And if you ever try to plan anything again, it will be damn near impossible.

I can guarantee you that her mindset right now is that she thinks you are turning her husband against her. She blames all of this on you and by confronting her with a call, you will feel the wrath. Plus, you don't know which angles your brother has already tried to use so you might accidentally contradict him and it'd be over.

What I'd do is write up a long email explaining everything. Make all the points that you made in this thread. Make it overly sappy and play up any sad things that have happened to you or your brothers over the years. Then at the end of it, you should give her your office phone number and tell her to call her with an answer on whether or not he can go. Tell her it's totally up to her and that if she wants to tell her husband no, that you and everyone else will understand. As Spurminator said, the only way to deal with someone who is both dumb and controlling is to give them power and the illusion that they will make the ultimate decision.

Be sure to have her call you with the answer because it's harder to say no on the phone than via email. Oh and be sure to read the email to your brother beforehand to make sure it aligns with all the points he has been making.

If she calls you and says no, you'll have one more opportunity to reinforce everything but your chances will be slim. If you don't care about alienating her, that's when you can try to get pissed to see if that works. If your brother never gets pissed with her, then it may shock her back into reality.

This is a difficult situation and you will be climbing uphill but that's how I would handle it.

:wakeup

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

If she ends up reluctantely letting him go she'll make him regret it for the rest of his life. If he steps foot on that plane having massaged the situation to get there he might as well never come home.


He told me on the phone that if he goes he's going to hear about it for the next 20 years.

Damn. I think you really are a life coach.

[CosmicCowboy]

Holy SHIT! All I can add to this is that if he is willing to put up with that much crap she must be GREAT in the sack.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'm also the oldest of four brothers (now I know why EHJ is cool :smokin) and I would not recommend calling her. Especially since you said she has a propensity to talk over you. There is like a 99% chance that all that will happen is she and you end up pissed off at the end of the conversation. Then she will tighten the noose on your brother and he'll halfway blame you. And if you ever try to plan anything again, it will be damn near impossible.

I can guarantee you that her mindset right now is that she thinks you are turning her husband against her. She blames all of this on you and by confronting her with a call, you will feel the wrath. Plus, you don't know which angles your brother has already tried to use so you might accidentally contradict him and it'd be over.

What I'd do is write up a long email explaining everything. Make all the points that you made in this thread. Make it overly sappy and play up any sad things that have happened to you or your brothers over the years. Then at the end of it, you should give her your office phone number and tell her to call her with an answer on whether or not he can go. Tell her it's totally up to her and that if she wants to tell her husband no, that you and everyone else will understand. As Spurminator said, the only way to deal with someone who is both dumb and controlling is to give them power and the illusion that they will make the ultimate decision.

Be sure to have her call you with the answer because it's harder to say no on the phone than via email. Oh and be sure to read the email to your brother beforehand to make sure it aligns with all the points he has been making.

If she calls you and says no, you'll have one more opportunity to reinforce everything but your chances will be slim. If you don't care about alienating her, that's when you can try to get pissed to see if that works. If your brother never gets pissed with her, then it may shock her back into reality.

This is a difficult situation and you will be climbing uphill but that's how I would handle it.

:wakeup

The email idea makes sense. I think that would be a better Step 2 if Dave continues to fail going at this himself. I don't see a one-on-one conversation with her not escalating and getting out of hand, and this way I make valid points that she can read over again as much as she wants.

My brother IS a big bear. Probably too gentle and easy going to be married to such a control freak. I'd like to stay completely out of it, but it's not my nature. As you know, Timvp, you always have your brothers' backs, even when they're being irrational....maybe especially when.

[remingtonbo2001]

Chopper, listen to timvp.

You have a very difficult line to walk. However, the results you desire can be achieved.

If there's one thing I know about Psychologists, is most, such as myself, are head cases.


And timvp, I don't think she's as dumb as it appears. It wouldn't surprise me if Dave's wife uses ignorance as a vail to mask her intentions.

Maybe, maybe not.

Regardless, I wish you the best of luck.

It sounds as though God is the only individual that could change this woman's heart.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Holy SHIT! All I can add to this is that if he is willing to put up with that much crap she must be GREAT in the sack.

At one time every guy who didn't actually know her thought she was amazingly hot. Over the years, however, she has been nipped, tucked, enhanced, oven-baked, etc. so much that I think she's starting to look a little freakish. She wants to still be 20, and has spent tens of thousands of dollars trying to roll back the clock. She's a gym addict, and not in a healthy way. Aging is not an option and it's beginning to get scary...IMO. I don't think she's ever been happy with herself, and that certainly becomes apparent in how she handles herself physically. But I think my brother still sees the 23 year old hottie he met so long ago.

[BacktoBasics]

He told me on the phone that if he goes he's going to hear about it for the next 20 years.

Damn. I think you really are a life coach.I've meet, slept with, married, divorced every kind of women you can think of. I know exactly how it works.

Not to mention how many overbearing women I deal with at my job. Personality manipulation and comprehension is what I get paid to do for a living.

You go sappy and you'll regret it. She eat you and him alive....if not right away a slow painful chewing until he mans up and leaves her. That might never happen considering some dudes find comfort in having no control at all.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I've used the divorce and/or kill line with my SIL. They sound like long lost twins.

It's frustrating to watch your brother being put the through the ringer on a daily basis.

[timvp]

You go sappy and you'll regret it. She eat you and him alive.EHJ holds a 1% chance of winning a "fire vs. fire" technique if he calls her straight up. She'll be in her comfort zone because she'll know it's coming. She is already feeling like she is being attacked and him calling her would make her feel even more attacked. On her home turf, she is going to win that battle ... even if it means hanging up the phone and then cutting the husband's nvts off afterwards.

Even if the sappy email route doesn't work initially, at least when she calls her guard will be down and then EHJ can drop the hammer. If she calls thinking she'll be able to put a nice little ribbon on the top of her decision and EHJ will understand, she's not going to be ready for the fire. That's when EHJ can strike. That is the only way to hope to catch her with her defenses down.

The only other way is to show up unexpectedly on their doorstep and try to reason with her face to face. I'd do that way before I'd pick up the phone and try to beat her at her own game. EHJ has to get crafty to win this war.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I don't think anything will work short of his brother telling her to get fucked and simply going.

Since when does being rational with an irrational person ever work?

[timvp]

I don't think anything will work short of his brother telling her to get fucked and simply going.If that's the case, EHJ might as well cancel one of those plane tickets now because no way he's going to turn into a hard ass after 17 years.

EHJ has to use advanced levels of craftiness to get this done. Otherwise he has no hope.

[CuckingFunt]

He was looking to big brother to somehow make things better --- he asked me if I'd talk to his wife for him.

Say no. Talking to the wife for him is about the worst thing you can do for a guy who needs to grow a pair.

[2centsworth]

Your brother has issues. All you can do is try your best to get the result you want, but don't let it get to you if it doesn't work out. Witches like her feed off of others unhappiness. Don't give her the satisfaction. I too have a younger brother that is wussified and drives us nuts.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

If that's the case, EHJ might as well cancel one of those plane tickets now because no way he's going to turn into a hard ass after 17 years.

EHJ has to use advanced levels of craftiness to get this done. Otherwise he has no hope.

The angle to work here is the brother, not the wife, IMO.

[CuckingFunt]

The angle, really, is to talk to the brother, but to ultimately let him make his own decision and let him handle it in his own way. Even if that means he misses the trip.

I think everyone who's posted in this thread can agree that the wife is a manipulative and controlling cunt, but it doesn't change the fact that he chose to marry her. Push hard enough, either the wife or the brother, that this turns into a battle? Don't be surprised when he sides with her.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

The angle, really, is to talk to the brother, but to ultimately let him make his own decision and let him handle it in his own way. Even if that means he misses the trip.



That's a rather long way to say that you agree with me.

[CuckingFunt]

That's a rather long way to say that you agree with me.

I've never been one to walk when I could easily do a cartwheel instead.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Maybe you should talk to his wife?

[tlongII]

Dude, I've got 2 brothers and both of them are married. It's been AT LEAST 2 years since all 3 of us have played golf together. I think their wives do the same thing to them that your brother's wife does. I can't stand one of my brother's wife so I would not talk to her in a similar situation. She's a hottie and thinks that should entitle her to always get her way. :rolleyes I think you should just explain how much this means to you to your brother. Let him deal with it and let the chips fall where they may.

[MannyIsGod]

My wife thinks like you do. That's why she and Janet don't talk these days...Mrs. Chopper wouldn't let Janet manipulate her and drew the line in the sand and the two of them had it out. I think their situation makes my mom and some of the more passive members of the family uncomfortable, but I'll tell you, it's certainly healthier for my wife.

It might come to this, B2B...I'm hoping it won't, but sadly that's probably step 4. I might have to be bold with my brother, too, and tell him that at the rate we're going he and I are never going to see each other again.

This whole thing is supposed to be fun and it's turning into crap. I told my wife when we started planning this thing that it probably won't go well, but Dave is the one who originally asked for this trip, so I had my hopes going in.

I could never be married to someone like that. Everyone here knows that I don't shy away from arguing, can you imagine if I married someone that wanted to get on my every last fucking nerve every minute of the day?

Oh god, I'd be on fucking death row for a brutal stabbing death after I snapped.

[MannyIsGod]

EHJ holds a 1% chance of winning a "fire vs. fire" technique if he calls her straight up. She'll be in her comfort zone because she'll know it's coming. She is already feeling like she is being attacked and him calling her would make her feel even more attacked. On her home turf, she is going to win that battle ... even if it means hanging up the phone and then cutting the husband's nvts off afterwards.

Even if the sappy email route doesn't work initially, at least when she calls her guard will be down and then EHJ can drop the hammer. If she calls thinking she'll be able to put a nice little ribbon on the top of her decision and EHJ will understand, she's not going to be ready for the fire. That's when EHJ can strike. That is the only way to hope to catch her with her defenses down.

The only other way is to show up unexpectedly on their doorstep and try to reason with her face to face. I'd do that way before I'd pick up the phone and try to beat her at her own game. EHJ has to get crafty to win this war.

I say Chopper sends her a mail bomb. #1 Great story for us here at Spurstalk - WIN. #2 Brother no longer is married to anal bitch and lives happily ever after when he marries 22 year old hottie who cares for him in every way for ever - WIN #3 Chopper and the boys play extra golf and bro buys all the rounds with the life insurance money - WIN

Its Win Win Win!

http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/12/11/the_office_promo_pic_nbc.jpg

[Brutalis]

When women act like that EHJ it makes me wonder if she in fact is the one doing something behind his back.

[baseline bum]

Cut the bitch. If not that, at least give your brother that contact from your golf buddy that you posted about a few months ago, Chopper.

[Fillmoe]

ill straighten her out

[marini martini]

I wish I could give my 2 cents. But I'm a great wife, to my man & am very supportive of the ones in my family. I encourage everyone to follow their passion, and enjoy their good time, even if it doesn't include me:toast
Because god knows, I'm enjoying my life, one day at a time:clap

[The Franchise]

Here's the situation,

I am the oldest of four brothers, and the four of us have planned a 3 1/2 day golf trip to Denver for late August. Two of my brothers are in their 20's and the oldest of the three, Dave, is only a year younger than me. Only the baby of the group is single, and brother number three, Mike, has a baby due in October.

Anyway, we've got the trip completely planned, flights picked, hotel chosen, golf courses chosen, etc., when now Dave's wife, Janet, has told him that if he goes on this trip without her that he's choosing other people over her, and that she doesn't want to become one of those couples that takes separate vacations.

The ironic thing in this is that a few years back Janet's mom took Janet and her sisters on two trips to Europe that did not include my brother Dave. Janet's mom has since passed away, and for some reason, these trips without Dave are completely justifiable by Janet, but Dave's brothers weekend is somehow different according to her.

So Dave calls me and says to hold off on the reservations that he's not sure he is going. Needless to say I was disappointed and angry. He was looking to big brother to somehow make things better --- he asked me if I'd talk to his wife for him.

Basically I don't know what I'd say. A couple of years back she alienated herself from my wife by being pretty hateful, and so now I rarely see my brother, which is sad because he and I have always been close.

My baby brother is potentially taking a job in Chicago in the spring, and with Mike's wife's baby coming in October I know he'll be busy being a new dad for at least the next year and a half. My dad died suddenly, two years ago, and so I'm painfully aware that nothing in this life is a given, and so I was really looking forward to this trip. Dave's the one that the other three brothers see the least (due to his controlling wife) and so this trip was really being based upon him being there.

Dave is a former college football player. He is a superintendent for a large Arizona construction company and deals with some tough characters every single day on his job, but with his wife his balls shrivel up and disappear.

What should I do? What advice should I give? If I go off on Janet I'm sure she'll tighten the noose on Dave's nutsack even more.



The Chopper is stumped and looking for answers. I know the answers are here.


Help!

Kill him now. You'll be doing him a favor.

[ShoogarBear]

She really needs to understand that her husband isn't wanting to go on a strip club tour of America with three guys he's met a the local NUDE! NUDE! NUDE! club last weekend.

Crap, Chopper, you've been outed. Time for Plan B.

[Brodels]

I hope, for your brother's sake, that she's really, really sexy at least.


This is all great advice. I knew the Spurstalkers would come through!!

You all have certainly confirmed a lot of my own thoughts on this whole thing. I think my first move will be to re-affirm for my brother a lot of the points that you all have made regarding family, and the real purpose for this trip, and then advise him to discuss these items with her. As many of you have noted, staying out of their discussion would be best if possible...I think.

I also know they talked for "several hours" about this, according to Dave, already, so I have doubts he'll make much headway. So step two will be me talking to Janet...and I think JohnSmith's idea is a great one, if I make no headway alone, for step 3 I'll have brothers 3 and 4 talk to Dave as well. I think I'll print SFIE's script and distribute it to the three of us.

CC's comment about the bar being lowered is exactly what I've witnessed over the years. My brother has been married for 17 years now. As I mentioned, he's a former athlete and his wife was a psychology major. He doesn't usually say much, and she is a great manipulator. She could convince him that a blue sky is reallygreen...I've seen her in action. Over the years she's slowly separated him from his family, and has become more and more controlling. Easjer, from what I know about you I doubt you are anything like my sister-in-law. Doug Christie's wife might be better than Janet.

Some examples of her domineering ways...she keeps a two column notebook on the counter and when my brother comes home everyday she makes him write down what he spent money on...if he went to the ATM, etc. She reviews his daily spending, but he told me he hasn't seen one of her receipts, or even one of their bank statements in years....and he outearns her 3 to 1, but I've seen him ask her permission to take a little cash out of the ATM before like none of it is his. He keeps a little cash stash hidden from her that he uses to go have a beer with the fellas or buy a new golf club or whatever else she wouldn't approve of...like have a little fun without her. They've got plenty of money so it's just a control thing.

Another example...I was in Phoenix on a business trip a couple of weeks ago and I took an extra day there to be with him. I specifically planned it so I'd be at his house when she was normally teaching/working out/etc. When she heard I was coming she rearranged her schedule and spent the entire day with us. And when she's with us she dominates the conversation. I probably had 5 minutes of actual conversation with Dave.

Example three...my brother and his wife flew to NM when one of my cousins from Atlanta came to town specifically to go skiing with us about 5 years ago. They come into town and Janet was dealing with a sore knee and decided not to ski. She convinced Dave that he shouldn't ski either because she said she didn't want him injuring himself and not being able to work at his job (which at the time he was still working directly on jobsites quite a bit). All this after they flew out knowing we all were going skiing. My cousin was mystified, and hasn't been out to visit since. I don't blame him.

I told her one time that if she were my wife I'd of divorced and/or killed her by now. She laughed like I was joking. I wasn't joking. That's why I'm really hoping to be able to talk to her in a calm manner because my instinct is to pull out the pimp hand. This thread has given me a chance to simmer a bit...thankfully.

Anyway...all this affirms a lot for me, and I sincerely appreciate it. I think at this point I'm more disappointed in Dave than anything else, but he's essentially in an abusive relationship and I'm trying to remind myself of that.

I'll keep you posted.

[ShoogarBear]

I don't have anything more in the way of advice, since just about every possible angle has been given.

I will predict that your brother and Janet are going to end badly. Hopefully the kids won't be hurt.

[ploto]

I haven't posted much lately, but I had to respond to this thread. I spent about the same number of years as this brother in a relationship with someone who was a master manipulator. She will never be satisfied- no matter what he does-- EVER.

I feel for him- I really do. One of the key components is that manipulators have to isolate the person from others who could have any influence on that person. She seems to have already accomplished this in many ways.

Unfortunately only he can do anything about his relationship. Manipulators keep manipulating because it works. The only way to stop it is to make it quit working. A warning: If he makes the manipulation quit working, the marriage may end because she will no longer be in control of him.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I don't have anything more in the way of advice, since just about every possible angle has been given.

I will predict that your brother and Janet are going to end badly. Hopefully the kids won't be hurt.

Luckily they have no kids.

After Chopper Jr. was born Janet started her string of hate on my wife until Mrs. Chopper had enough and finally excommunicated her.

They tried to have kids for a few years but gave up...Janet blamed Dave publicly, and he accepted that until she had Dave get a fertility test and he tested normal. For some reason she couldn't understand how a normal 35 year old woman who was drinking diet coke and taking ephedra for breakfast, going to the gym and doing extreme cardio workouts for two straight hours a day, tanning in a salon for over half an hour each day, eating a big lunch but then finishing her day with cigarettes and a bottle or two of wine couldn't get pregnant.

Actually, thinking about it, the only thing worse than being her husband would probably be being her child.

[Kriz-Maxima]

No kids?

She HAS to be a goddess in bed.

[ShoogarBear]

Luckily they have no kids.
God works in mysterious ways.


They tried to have kids for a few years but gave up...Janet blamed Dave publicly,

Hokey smokes, this woman needs to be disappeared.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I haven't posted much lately, but I had to respond to this thread. I spent about the same number of years as this brother in a relationship with someone who was a master manipulator. She will never be satisfied- no matter what he does-- EVER.

I feel for him- I really do. One of the key components is that manipulators have to isolate the person from others who could have any influence on that person. She seems to have already accomplished this in many ways.

Unfortunately only he can do anything about his relationship. Manipulators keep manipulating because it works. The only way to stop it is to make it quit working. A warning: If he makes the manipulation quit working, the marriage may end because she will no longer be in control of him.


Something else I'd like to print out for my bro. Your point about separation is spot on. I'm beginning to think the dude needs an intervention.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

No kids?

She HAS to be a goddess in bed.

I can say, with all honesty, I have no desire to know the answer to this. But she has some sort of spell on the boy, that's for sure.

[MannyIsGod]

I wish I could give my 2 cents. But I'm the perfect wife, to my man & am very supportive of the ones in my family. I encourage everyone to follow their passion, and enjoy their good time, even if it doesn't include me:toast
Because god knows, I'm enjoying my life, one day at a time:clap

If you were my wife, I'd own a gun and it would be in my mouth.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

You tell her he's going. And if she laughs, you punch her in the fuckin head.

[mookie2001]

I'm the second of four brothers.
dam hasbrahs!
they all have ninja liter bikes too. and have hemegamboa like credentials

4ccs youngblood once sent six guys to the emergency room in a tussle. and hes not even the young and nubile one

[baseline bum]

This is what you do. You and your wife invite him and his to a nice restaurant. Midway through the meal, turn to your wife and say

"El junkie.... my brother, he got a junkie for a wife. Don't do nothing... sleeps all day with them black chades on... and who won't fuck him cuz she's in a coma....

Do you know her womb is so polluted, he can't even have a kid with her?"

At this point she should jump up and yell "How dare you!" and storm out of your lives forever. Problem solved.

[marini martini]

If you were my wife, I'd own a gun and it would be in my mouth.

If you were my husband, I'd pull the trigger!:lmao

What the hell? We own guns, no one in my family wants to put them in their mouth! Lighten up jerkwad! If you can't have fun in life by yourself, you damn sure won't have fun in a relationship, snowflake boi!:toast

Be happy with yourself, then you can be happy with others!:princess

[PakiDan]

I went on the trip... I am now divorced... I felt right for years, now I realize I took her for granted. Your bro should honor his wife and marriage... regardless if you feel she is right or not.

[Fillmoe]

lol... marini took a big fat shit on manolo

[J.T.]

I'd be happy to keep his wife preoccupied for that weekend. She can clean my apartment.

[mrsmaalox]

If you were my wife, I'd own a gun and it would be in my mouth.

Marini, I think someone has a crush on you! ;)

[marini martini]

Marini, I think someone has a crush on you! ;)

Not any more. I just edited:lmao

[johnsmith]

Chopper, did you look at the arrowhead website yet?

I'm telling you, that is the prettiest course on the front range in my opinion. It's not necessarily the best course, but the unique rocks jetting out everywhere makes it worth changing your plans for one of the days. Plus, it's right around all the other courses you are playing........sort of.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Chopper, did you look at the arrowhead website yet?

I'm telling you, that is the prettiest course on the front range in my opinion. It's not necessarily the best course, but the unique rocks jetting out everywhere makes it worth changing your plans for one of the days. Plus, it's right around all the other courses you are playing........sort of.

Yes, I looked at the site and it looks awesome! I'm not a good enough golfer to really care about much more than the scenery and how frequently the beer cart comes around, and that course looks beautiful. I've let the others know that I want to check it out, and we're going to finalize our list in the next day or two. I think we're going to play it, so thanks for the heads up on that. :tu

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

BTW, an update on Dave's situation.

He's going. He hasn't gone into any great detail, only to say that he's still battling his lovely bride on a daily basis about it. I know Janet called my mom, and sister-in-law trying to rally support for her cause, and she struck out as they told her they thought it was a good idea that this trip was happening. I gave him some of the advice you all passed on and so maybe that helped.

I think he may have taken a completely different approach and resorted to bribery. In the same breath that he told me he was going, he told me that Janet went and bought a new suv yesterday. She already drives a pretty nice car, and so I asked him if she traded that car in. He said 'nope' and then pretty quickly ended the conversation. So, by my estimate, this golf trip is costing my brother something like $35K. Oh well....I'm hoping that those four days will help restore his manhood. It's worth $35K for that.

[2centsworth]

BTW, an update on Dave's situation.

He's going. He hasn't gone into any great detail, only to say that he's still battling his lovely bride on a daily basis about it. I know Janet called my mom, and sister-in-law trying to rally support for her cause, and she struck out as they told her they thought it was a good idea that this trip was happening. I gave him some of the advice you all passed on and so maybe that helped.

I think he may have taken a completely different approach and resorted to bribery. In the same breath that he told me he was going, he told me that Janet went and bought a new suv yesterday. She already drives a pretty nice car, and so I asked him if she traded that car in. He said 'nope' and then pretty quickly ended the conversation. So, by my estimate, this golf trip is costing my brother something like $35K. Oh well....I'm hoping that those four days will help restore his manhood. It's worth $35K for that.

your brother thinks you guys are worth $35k, pretty cool!

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Hmmm, so many emotions. It's the right outcome, but this could set an even worse precedent than anything else. With any luck your brother set the car up in her name, hid a kilo of coke somewhere in there, and will drop a dime on her to the cops from the airport.

[ShoogarBear]

Hmmm, so many emotions. It's the right outcome, but this could set an even worse precedent than anything else. With any luck your brother set the car up in her name, hid a kilo of coke somewhere in there, and will drop a dime on her to the cops from the airport.

easjer, you better stay on this man's good side.

[2Blonde]

Hmmm, so many emotions. It's the right outcome, but this could set an even worse precedent than anything else. With any luck your brother set the car up in her name, hid a kilo of coke somewhere in there, and will drop a dime on her to the cops from the airport.


easjer, you better stay on this man's good side.


:lmao

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

easjer, you better stay on this man's good side.

I don't know how much money you think I make Shoog. The worst I could hope to set her up for is a dime bag hidden in the seat of a used Huffy.

[SAGambler]

Probably the best thing you can do is MYOB. Otherwise, you are going to piss his wife off more than ever, and he will probably take her side. You may lose any contact you do have with him.

Seems like she is a controlling type person, and apparently his is fine with it. Otherwise he wouldn't still be with her.

[monosylab1k]

That must be some dynamite P

[ShoogarBear]

I don't know how much money you think I make Shoog. The worst I could hope to set her up for is a dime bag hidden in the seat of a used Huffy.

Oh, I could see you giving her a stolen car.

[J.T.]

Ed, if your bro's wife is into three way's, he can drop her off at my place for the duration of your trip and I'll make her forget all about being left behind. I've always wanted two women at the same time. This way, everyone's happy.

[marini martini]

Ed, if your bro's wife is into three way's, he can drop her off at my place for the duration of your trip and I'll make her forget all about being left behind. I've always wanted two women at the same time. This way, everyone's happy.

So where's the other one supposed to come from?????

[2Blonde]

Ed, if your bro's wife is into three way's, he can drop her off at my place for the duration of your trip and I'll make her forget all about being left behind. I've always wanted two women at the same time. This way, everyone's happy.


So where's the other one supposed to come from?????
:lmao Point for Martini :toast

[J.T.]

So where's the other one supposed to come from?????


:lmao Point for Martini :toast

You two are welcome to join in and make it a five way.

[marini martini]

You two are welcome to join in and make it a five way.

Who's the imaginary other chick?:lmao