dubya, Maliki Agree on 'Time Horizon' for U.S. Troop Withdrawals

[boutons_]

dubya flops, from no time and "conditions on the ground" as determinant to a "time horizon".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/18/AR2008071801308.html?hpid=topnews

so dubya is adopting HUSSEIN's strategy, leaving Senile McFlop to "Twist Slowly in the Wind" with his 100 years' occupation, "like Korea".

[FromWayDowntown]

Setting up a deadline to withdraw troops is dangerous to the troops and to the process of securing Iraq.

Or at least it used to be.

[boutons_]

It's completely vague bullshit and smokescreen. It's all still "circumstances on the ground", so totally meaningless.

This could be for Iraqi domestic consumption only, fooling the Iraqis putting pressure on Maliki to kick dubya out but in fact nothing is changed.

[ggoose25]

So.... a "time horizon" isn't a time table? Hmmm.

Sounds like horseshit to me.

I guess horizons don't embolden the enemy.

[boutons_]

A complete backdown from fixed withdrawal date by Maliki, acting as The Good Puppet/Stooge he has been and will always be.

[PEP]

sigh....

I know none of you on here who want us to lose in Iraq will even consider this but here goes; the war in Iraq has been won and all that is left is going to be the "occasional" suicide bombing by Al Qaeda where a dozen or so civilians will be killed. I know that isnt acceptable either way but considering that violence is now down 90% in Iraq that is a victory. The new front is now in Afghanistan, soon some of the forces in Iraq will be sent to Afghanistan and I suspect that it will take about 1 1/2 years before things start to "normalize" over there. Now that we have a blueprint on how to win an insurgency that can be applied in Afghanistan.

The Surge worked and I know that it sucks for some of you to hear but its true.

And there will always be US troops in Iraq just like we're in Europe and Asia, so yes we'll probably be there for 100 years but I suspect there will only be between 10,000 - 25,000 troops, if even that.

[ChumpDumper]

Time Horizon?

Sounds like one of pooh's books.

[Nbadan]

Yeah the surge has worked alright, we've managed to bribe every group we could bribe and arm the ones we couldn't (but damn it if they aren't American made weapons :lol ) . There are now more weapons and U.S. taxpayer benjis in Iraq than there are in Israel. We've also managed to drive Al Queda (whatever that is) out of Iraq and into Afghanistan and Pakistan. To make matters worse, American troops that have done two or three tours in Iraq will now get a couple months rest and head into tours in Afghanistan and Pakistan. There are no more American dollars to bribe the fighters in those countries but you can rest assured that the Treasury will keep on printing them anyway making your savings, as well as your purchasing power worthless, but the good news is that things will become cheaper to make in the U.S. and manufacturing should see a resurgence...not that you'll be able to afford the fruits of your labor with no financing and the purchasing power of the Mexican peso...

[PEP]

Yeah the surge has worked alright, we've managed to bribe every group we could bribe and arm the ones we couldn't (but damn it if they aren't American made weapons :lol ) . There are now more weapons and U.S. taxpayer benjis in Iraq than there are in Israel. We've also managed to drive Al Queda (whatever that is) out of Iraq and into Afghanistan and Pakistan. To make matters worse, American troops that have done two or three tours in Iraq will now get a couple months rest and head into tours in Afghanistan and Pakistan. There are no more American dollars to bribe the fighters in those countries but you can rest assured that the Treasury will keep on printing them anyway making your savings, as well as your purchasing power worthless, but the good news is that things will become cheaper to make in the U.S. and manufacturing should see a resurgence...not that you'll be able to afford the fruits of your labor with no financing and the purchasing power of the Mexican peso...
That's what you got, thats it? And what happens when the violence stays down are you going to keep using that same "bribe" excuse, its only going to take you so far.

I guess you dont know that its an all volunteer force now and enlistment rates are holding steady despite the multiple tours overseas. Like I've said before, I've been there and will go back as long as I have to, so quit making it seem like the guys over there are crying about their multiple tours, the only one's I see crying are those that havent even been there.

[George Gervin's Afro]

dubya flops, from no time and "conditions on the ground" as determinant to a "time horizon".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/18/AR2008071801308.html?hpid=topnews

so dubya is adopting HUSSEIN's strategy, leaving Senile McFlop to "Twist Slowly in the Wind" with his 100 years' occupation, "like Korea".

Why are we surrendering?

[PixelPusher]

Why are we surrendering?

"Surrendering" in Iraq, "Appeasing" the Iranians...Yonivore must be swinging from a shower rod at this point.

[clambake]

sigh....
The Surge worked and I know that it sucks for some of you to hear but its true.
the surge is made of money. how long do we pay them not to kill us?


And there will always be US troops in Iraq just like we're in Europe and Asia, so yes we'll probably be there for 100 years but I suspect there will only be between 10,000 - 25,000 troops, if even that.
how long do we pay them not to kill us?

[whottt]

Horrible takes in this thread...at least 2 usually intelligent posters can't tell the difference between leaving at the request of the Iraqi government and leaving soley to our benefit.


So much for the puppet government theory...and no, I wouldn't have expected any of you to own up on that...after all, it would render the endless bitching you have done on this forum for hte last 4 years even more useless and stupid than it actually was.


I never supported a pull out when it was convenient for us...and always supported one when the Iraqu government was ready to so so.


Unforunately I don't think they are truly read to do so, but if the popularly elected government asks us, then we have to respect that.



Idealism 1 Stupidty 0

No puppet government.
No illegal occupation.

Merely the removal of a dictator and the establishment of a fledgeling Democracy in the Middle East.

And W has better character and more accountability than any of you.

[whottt]

PS: And I hope we get some fucking Oil out of this...it would be deserved.

[boutons_]

"if the popularly elected government asks us, then we have to respect that."

:lol

Mailiki and most of parliament already expressed a desire for withdrawal, and dubya just got Maliki to cave in and agree on a super-nebulous "horizon". Does anybody think Maliki caved without pressure from dubya?

dubya busts up Iraq, fails to re-build, on false pretenses, so he "deserves" the oil? :lol

Thanks for admitting finally that dubya's invasion was been along for oil.

I really doubt President HUSSEIN! will be able to pull off a pull out.

And if he does, the Repugs will trash him as Muslim terrorist traitor falafel-eating surrender-monkey.

[whottt]

"if the popularly elected government asks us, then we have to respect that."

:lol

Mailiki and most of parliament already expressed a desire for withdrawal, and dubya just got Maliki to cave in and agree on a super-nebulous "horizon". Does anybody think Maliki caved without pressure from dubya?

dubya busts up Iraq, fails to re-build, on false pretenses, so he "deserves" the oil? :lol

Thanks for admitting finally that dubya's invasion was been along for oil.

I really doubt President HUSSEIN! will be able to pull off a pull out.

And if he does, the Repugs will trash him as Muslim terrorist traitor falafel-eating surrender-monkey.



Funny.....I could have sworn you said at the beginning of this thread that W flopped..as in he reversed his stance, at least that's what it means to non-idiots. Now you are saying he hasn't...


Which is it douche? Did he change his stance, or is it the same old same old?

I know...it's whatever negatives you can find, regardless of the validity. Whore.

[whottt]

This is what integrity looks like:


http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2657464&postcount=54



It's political suicide for the Republican Party if they refuse to agree to a timetable...and Bush's legacy will be monstrous.

They better figure out if feeding their SI is more important than the party survival...


And they won't win the election if that is their stance.



I'll say it right now...if the leader of Iraq is asking for that timetable and McCain(if asked) and the Republicans aren't willing to agree or support that...I'll be voting for Obama.

[boutons_]

dubya flopped in words, for Iraqi domestic consumption, but he won't flop in action (any withdrawal action will be after his retirement).

There is talk of withdrawing troops from Iraq before the Nov election (what a coincidence! dubya wins! McSenile benefits) so they could go to Afghanistan, NOT effectively the start of a definitive withdrawal from Iraq.

[boutons_]

The Huffington Post

July 19, 2008

White House Accidentally E-Mails Story On Iraqi PM Backing Obama Withdrawal Plan To Reporters


As Reuters reported earlier today, Iraqi Prime Minister al-Maliki has voiced his support for Obama's withdrawal plan. Needless to say, such support is not a PR victory for the Bush administration. And so it was no doubt embarrassing when, according to ABC's Jake Tapper, the White House sent the article--accidentally--to reporters:

The White House this afternoon accidentally sent to its extensive distribution list a Reuters story headlined "Iraqi PM backs Obama troop exit plan -

The White House employee had intended to send the article to an internal distribution list, ABC News' Martha Raddatz reports, but hit the wrong button.

The misfire comes at an odd time for Bush foreign policy, at a time when Obama's campaign alleges the president is moving closer toward Obama's recommendations about international relations -- sending more U.S. troops to Afghanistan, discussing a "general time horizon" for U.S. troop withdrawal and launching talks with Iran.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/19/white-house-accidentally_n_113824.html?view=print

[whottt]

Ok so now you're saying W didn't flop?


And Obama's stance changed as well...for the better.
All the Iraqui PM has to do is start sqawking that he wants a pull out and he'll pretty much get it...


The nature and timing of the pull out is the single most important factor of the Iraq war...it's also the reason the Democrats lost in 2004.


Talk about how stupid the decision was to go in all you want...but the decision to immediately pullout when evne the provisional government was against that, would have just been, at best, additional stupidity.


Obama is smart enough to realize that...and so are the Republicans.....it's only the idiots that truly believed it would have been a wise move that are still stuck on that Island of stupid.

The bottom line is that even if we did go in for the the wrong reasons, that doesn't mean we can't improve the situation by the time we leave.


You see, ultimately the voting power of the American people will render our actions there noble or stupid. We do have the power to undermine whatever commercial reasons our government went in for...we do have the power to render it ultimately a decision that made the ME a better and more stable place to live.


Vote carefully...



And you guys haven't wanted to respect the Iraqi PM's requests in the past, because he damn sure wasn't asking for an immediate pullout in 04, you didn't give a shit then...so why do you now?



The second he wants a pull out we should give it to him...not before. That was our responsibility.

[ggoose25]

My whole beef is with the inflammatory rhetoric that Bush&co. have been using regarding time tables in general. I have no problem, and in fact I respect and encourage the Iraqis to have some accountability and begin to stand up for themselves.

I have always been for the surge (and NOT before I was against it... fucking Kerry), and wish they wouldve sent in the proper amount of troops when the commanders on the ground really needed it immediately post-invastion.

I have always hoped the surge would bail us out of the cluster fuck W had created, but I was skeptical. And this spring when it was obvious that violence was under control, I was in favor of setting a time table for withdrawal of combat troops. Thats when any mention of a time table was considered unpatriotic and a move that could embolden the enemy. The argument was that any date for withdrawal could be used by terrorists to just wait for us to leave.

And, now suddenly a "time horizon" is different?

I understand that Iraqis asking for a time table is different than us prematurely pulling out, but how does that change the original argument that setting a time table is counter productive since Al Qaeda can just wait for us to leave? It doesn't. It just proves that Bush and the Republicans are playing politics, just as much as the Democrats, but under the despicable guise of patriotism.

Its that kind of language that angers me because its impossible to have a debate about the best course of action without a Republican telling you that you are an appeaser or a defeatist, or that you secretly wish to lose the war in Iraq. And when it boils down to it, that kind of language is just a smoke screen to get away with whatever happens to be the administration's policy de jour.

[whottt]

Couldn't start talking about a timetable until after Al-Qaeda and the Political unrest had been dealt with...


You start talking about one before then, and Al-Qaeda will be listening...then they have the leisure of just playing a waiting game, and they'll know exactly how long they have to wait.

[PEP]

the surge is made of money. how long do we pay them not to kill us?


how long do we pay them not to kill us?
You tell me since you obviously know the answer. As far as I know we're still paying off Germany and Japan.

[ggoose25]

Thats fine. I can understand that. And I actually kind of agree.

But whats to say that they aren't waiting us out now. What's changed that a "time horizon" is acceptable to Bush?

My complaint is that it was unpatriotic to talk about time tables of withdrawal three months ago, and now saying a time horizon of 5 years is not?

I understand that any time table will be tentative, and anything set in stone is idiotic without taking into account facts on the ground. But any discussion of a time frame was shot down, and now its ok? Thats hypocrisy plain and simple.

Make the time table 2 years, 3 years. Maybe its shorter, maybe its longer. I don't pretend to know. But at least set a goal. And don't make it seem like those for setting a goal are asking for defeat because I'm sure there are some who take that kind of rhetoric to heart and actually believe that most liberal Americans hope for that.

The time table is all about accountability. I'm glad that the Iraqis are finally manning up. Petraues needs another promotion.

[boutons_]

" "time horizon" is acceptable to Bush"

because it's so vague and undefined, like "aspirational", that it's meaningless, and any horizon is well past 20 Jan 09.

[George Gervin's Afro]

sigh....

I know none of you on here who want us to lose in Iraq will even consider this but here goes; the war in Iraq has been won and all that is left is going to be the "occasional" suicide bombing by Al Qaeda where a dozen or so civilians will be killed. I know that isnt acceptable either way but considering that violence is now down 90% in Iraq that is a victory. The new front is now in Afghanistan, soon some of the forces in Iraq will be sent to Afghanistan and I suspect that it will take about 1 1/2 years before things start to "normalize" over there. Now that we have a blueprint on how to win an insurgency that can be applied in Afghanistan.

The Surge worked and I know that it sucks for some of you to hear but its true.

And there will always be US troops in Iraq just like we're in Europe and Asia, so yes we'll probably be there for 100 years but I suspect there will only be between 10,000 - 25,000 troops, if even that.

What sucks is that it took bush and company too long to change his failed strategy. To his nuthuggers he was being principled but to everyone else he was negligent and it caused 4,000 deaths... That's what sucked. Care to coment about all of those folks who stated for many years that we needed more troops? YOu would then have to acknowledge that his original strategy was a failure if you want to give him credit for the surge.

[ElNono]

What sucks is that it took bush and company too long to change his failed strategy. To his nuthuggers he was being principled but to everyone else he was negligent and it caused 4,000 deaths... That's what sucked. Care to coment about all of those folks who stated for many years that we needed more troops? YOu would then have to acknowledge that his original strategy was a failure if you want to give him credit for the surge.

It's easier to stick it to Rumsfeld... Dubya is never wrong...