Tolliver will make San Antonio's roster? Stein: "Last blast from Vegas"

[biba]

Stein: Last blast from Vegas

By Marc Stein ESPN.com
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=NBA-Notes-080719

...There have been a handful of breakout performances from little-known players like Brown since the games began at UNLV on July 11. Anthony Roberson quickly earned himself a guaranteed contract from the Knicks. One Eastern Conference executive insists that Anthony Tolliver will make San Antonio's roster as a "shooting 4-man." Some recent second-round picks have been eye-catching as well: P.J. Tucker as a very undersized (but rugged) power forward on the Grizzlies' squad and Nathan Jawai, Toronto's so-called Australian Shaq, just to name two...

[Spurtacus]

Eastern Conference executive? :lol

He's got a shot, but I doubt it.

[Buddy Holly]

If we can move Bonner, I can see it.

[WildcardManu]

If he's cheap, why not

[Brutalis]

What, so he can ride the bench and give Bonner someone to commune with?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

A younger, blacker Bonner. Why not? As long as the original Bonner is moved, I have no problem with it.

[ChumpDumper]

If Horry doesn't come back, it is certainly a possibility. His sitting out game four was a pretty strong indicator he's getting consideration and though it was a small sample size, 8 of 13 from the arc in three games from a power forward is impressive.

[urunobili]

Ducks and Bottomtooth both laughed at me yesterday when i brought this point in the game thread... now that Stein brings it up... what u have to say?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Ducks and Bottomtooth both laughed at me yesterday when i brought this point in the game thread... now that Stein brings it up... what u have to say?

I say this doesn't prove me wrong in any way. You said Mahinmi isn't cut for the Spurs and Tolliver is. That's yet to be proven. Just because a rumor comes up saying they have interest in him doesn't prove anything yet.

[Solid D]

Tolliver will have to make the roster by showing them he can defend, too. I don't see Tolliver beating out Gist but if they keep both, it will be because the Spurs didn't sign Horry. Tolliver would likely end up in the D League a good part of the time.

Oberto...Thomas.....Mahinmi
Duncan...Bonner......Gist
Bowen....Udoka.......Tolliver
Ginobili....Mason......Finley
Parker.....Hill...........Vaughn

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

When the time comes, a combination of Gist/Tolliver to replace Bowen/Udoka does sound nice.

That's of course assuming they continue to do well in the NBA.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Who do y'all believe the Spurs have more interest in right now: Hairston or Tolliver?

[urunobili]

Who do y'all believe the Spurs have more interest in right now: Hairston or Tolliver?

Both will make it to the pre season training camp.. then we shall see

[Buddy Holly]

I'd say Tolliver because he's been constantly good and for a big man can shoot it well from the three.

[Solid D]

When the time comes, a combination of Gist/Tolliver to replace Bowen/Udoka does sound nice.

That's of course assuming they continue to do well in the NBA.

See Bottomtooth, Bowen and Udoka are wings that swing 2/3. Gist and Tolliver would really swing more from 4 to 3 (combination 4 who can defend a big 3). They would struggle defending opposing 2s and smaller, quicker 3s.

[ChumpDumper]

When the time comes, a combination of Gist/Tolliver to replace Bowen/Udoka does sound nice.

That's of course assuming they continue to do well in the NBA.
I don't think Tolliver is athletic enough to play the 3.

The Spurs are likely intrigued by the prospect of Tolliver's three point shooting in a system with a strong post presence. Tolliver shot 36% from the arc in Iowa last season, and much of the time he was paired up with a "center" who was about the same size as himself.

[Buddy Holly]

Tolliver at the 4 is pretty much the only option.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

See Bottomtooth, Bowen and Udoka are wings that swing 2/3. Gist and Tolliver would be really swing more from 4 to 3 (combination 4 or big 3). They would struggle defending opposing 2s and smaller, quicker 3s.

That's true.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I don't think Tolliver is athletic enough to play the 3.

The Spurs are likely intrigued by the prospect of Tolliver's three point shooting in a system with a strong post presence. Tolliver shot 36% from the arc in Iowa last season, and much of the time he was paired up with a "center" who was about the same size as himself.

That does make sense. Do you see any chance of signing Tolliver if they are not able to find a trade for Bonner?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Tolliver's a four all the way. Like I said after the first summer league game, send Bonner back to Canada and slide Tolliver into his roster slot.

[Bartleby]

A younger, blacker Bonner. Why not?

A "blacker" Bonner?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

A "blacker" Bonner?

Well he is darker than Bonner, am I right?

Ah I see what the problem is. By saying blacker, that's implying that Bonner was black in the first place. You're right, I shouldn't have used blacker, but darker.

[ChumpDumper]

That does make sense. Do you see any chance of signing Tolliver if they are not able to find a trade for Bonner?Sure -- if Horry doesn't come back. You could simply consider Tolliver as taking Ian's spot on the IR/Toros roster, then we could see what does or doesn't happen with Bonner.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Sure -- if Horry doesn't come back. You could simply consider Tolliver as taking Ian's spot on the IR/Toros roster, then we could see what does or doesn't happen with Bonner.

:tu

[Bartleby]

Well he is darker than Bonner, am I right?

Ah I see what the problem is. By saying blacker, that's implying that Bonner was black in the first place. You're right, I shouldn't have used blacker, but darker.

Bonner is a white man trapped in a white man's body.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

:lol

[Buddy Holly]

The younger black version of Bonner.

[Solid D]

Question: how would Matt Bonner be playing against this type of competition in Summer League?

Would he be showing up worse than Tolliver? Matt can stroke it from the arc too and he does hustle. Can Tolliver beat out a player like Bonner who is under contract?

[angelbelow]

while hes a great offensive player his D is very poor. his chances are slim.

[Bruno]

If Pop thinks that Bonner will never be able to be a rotation player, working with another "young" shooting PF is a good idea.

I can see a scenario where Spurs trade Bonner for a swingman like Damien Wilkins, sign Tolliver as a project and Horry as a stop gap.

[tempest186]

I agree Bruno they only way I can see Tolliver is if Bonner is moved. Personally I'd like to see Bonner get more of a chance to play but if not then Tolliver could work.

[Spurtacus]

I'm calling an 0fer in his next game. Figures, right?

[Bartleby]

I'm calling an 0fer in his next game. Figures, right?

Well, that would bring his three point shooting percentage this summer back down to earth, and a little closer to his career percentage.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Pop's already apparently written off Bonner as having any prospect of being productive, which in itself makes Tolliver an upgrade at the position.

[ChumpDumper]

You never know.

We don't have many choices at this point.

[timvp]

I'm not too high on Tolliver. He's Bonner redux but shorter. He also doesn't have much history of being a deadly shooter. He's been knocking them down in summer league but this is an awfully small sample size.

Tolliver makes sense if Pop has 100% given up on Bonner and the Spurs want a young, cheap shooting big to groom. If that's the case, I guess Tolliver wouldn't be too bad. I'm not sure how he'd improve with the Toros though because the other teams would just guard him at the three-point line since there won't be a TD, Manu or TP to double.

I guess as long as it isn't over Gist and Tolliver is a 14-15th man, it won't hurt too much.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think Tolliver's shooting would improve in Austin nor does it necessarily need to. What he would hopefully develop here would be his defense and maybe some consistency on the boards.

[K-State Spur]

I remember Tolliver as a Bluejay. He more of a true post back then, but couldn't be left alone away from the bucket.

I do remember him being a rather average defender (even by MVC standards), but I haven't seen enough of him in the summer league to prove/disprove that.

[ceperez]

Toliver's Profile:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Anthony-Tolliver-1279/


Anthony Tolliver had a solid camp overall, showing off some nice passing ability, three-point range, and a well-rounded game with the many things he’s capable of doing. Tolliver shows excellent court awareness for a big man, and he passes well out of both posts. He also has the ability to step out behind the arc, shooting a flat-footed shot with decent form that he scored with a few times. In the post, Tolliver battles hard for position and usually goes up strong, as he drew quite a few fouls here, but while not showing the most advanced array of moves down low.

Defensively, Tolliver has some trouble when drawn out to the perimeter, as he couldn’t quite stick either Ivan Harris or Justin Doellman in this game when he was matched up with them, not being agile enough to risk tightly playing them, which left them open for outside shots. He hustles a lot on the defensive end in the painted area, though, and is able to get some blocks and steals off that more-so than explosiveness or excellent athletic ability, which he lacks. In the post, he’s a pretty good defender when he gets physical, but he doesn’t always do that, which is also a problem with his rebounding. He seems to get most of his rebounds due to his size and being in the right spot as opposed to throwing his weight around and using physicality to pull down boards in the crowd.

Here's his vitals:

Anthony Tolliver 6' 7"
6' 8.5" - with shoes
242 lbs - weight
7' 2.5" - wingspan
8' 11.5" - standing reach
5.7 - body fat
28.5 - no step vertical jump
30.0 - max vertical jump
21 - reps bench press
11.49 - lane agility
3.29 - 3/4 court sprint

Compare that with Gist

James Gist - 6' 7"
6' 8.5"
220
7' 4" - Winspan
8' 11.5"
4.8 - body fat
30.5 - vert
35.0 - max vert
5
11.37
3.14 - 3/4 sprint

Gist definitely more athletic. However, Tolliver definitely isn't that bad athletically if we consider his intangibles (i.e. good court awareness and accurate 3 point shot)

Sign him up!!

[Kori Ellis]

Tolliver seems to have improved from last fall when he was in Cavs camp. I said this before in another thread, his personality and off the court demeanor makes me think that he will get a invite to Spurs camp. I don't think they'll give him a contract right after summer league or anything though.

I'd expect both Tolliver and Gist to be in camp and see how it goes.

[ceperez]

One last observation...

There were 4 key players that the Spurs didn't play against the Suns.

D.Green
G.Hill
I.Mahinmi
A.Tolliver

Let me guess... did these 4 may the cut?

[Sway]

I'm not too high on Tolliver. He's Bonner redux but shorter. He also doesn't have much history of being a deadly shooter. He's been knocking them down in summer league but this is an awfully small sample size.

Tolliver makes sense if Pop has 100% given up on Bonner and the Spurs want a young, cheap shooting big to groom. If that's the case, I guess Tolliver wouldn't be too bad. I'm not sure how he'd improve with the Toros though because the other teams would just guard him at the three-point line since there won't be a TD, Manu or TP to double.

I guess as long as it isn't over Gist and Tolliver is a 14-15th man, it won't hurt too much.

I liked what I saw from Tolliver and hope he gets a roster spot along with Gist. The biggest knock on him thus far is his size, but I don’t think he is as small as everyone makes him out to be. Yeah he is 6’7”, but more importantly he has a really good 7’2.5” wingspan and an 8’11.5” standing reach. Matt Bonner by comparison only has an 8’9.5” standing reach.

[Kori Ellis]

One last observation...

There were 4 key players that the Spurs didn't play against the Suns.

D.Green
G.Hill
I.Mahinmi
A.Maric
A.Tolliver

Let me guess... did these 4 may the cut?
Maric isn't on the Spurs summer league team. He was cut/left before it started.

[urunobili]

If Pop thinks that Bonner will never be able to be a rotation player, working with another "young" shooting PF is a good idea.

I can see a scenario where Spurs trade Bonner for a swingman like Damien Wilkins, sign Tolliver as a project and Horry as a stop gap.

I would definitively support Damien Wilkins if that happens...

[Spurs Brazil]

I think Tolliver will be in the camp and then we'll see what happen

[ceperez]

Bonner versus Tolliver

Tale of the tape

6' 8.5" - 6' 7"
6' 10" - 6' 8.5" - with shoes
242 - 242 lbs - weight
6' 8.75" - 7' 2.5" - wingspan
8' 9.5" - 8' 11.5" - standing reach
13.6 - 5.7 - body fat
27.0 - 28.5 - no step vertical jump
32.0 - 30.0 - max vertical jump
20 - 21 - reps bench press
11.52 - 11.49 - lane agility
3.32 - 3.29 - 3/4 court sprint

Okay... equally strong and fast.

Bonner is taller, but Tolliver has a 2" standing reach advantage and a 5" wingspan advantage.

Looks like Tolliver definitely has the edge.

[pad300]

Tolliver's shooting has been spectacular, but as has been mentioned it's a very small sample size. If we have indeed given up on Bonner and plan on finding another young, shooter at PF, I think we would do much better trying to steal Fazekas from the Clippers. He has actually shown something in real NBA minutes and is probably available cheap (although not as cheap as Tolliver, still penny-wise can be pound-foolish.)

Draft express info:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nick-Fazekas-175/
Stats while in the NBA with the clippers
http://www.82games.com/0708/07LAC15A.HTM
Note the EFG% on Jumpers - .409, and the Rebounding Rating - 32.5...

Horry 04/05, EFG% on Jumpers .431, Rebounding Rating 20.7
Horry 05/06 EFG% on Jumpers .471, Rebounding Rating 22.2
Horry 06/07 EFG% on Jumpers .422, rebounding Rating 21.3

Horry's a better shooter, although Fazekas might get more open looks on our team than last years Clippers, and Fazekas is a much better rebounder...

[VaSpursFan]

with RC saying that horry won't be back...suddenly tolliver looks like he may make the squad.

[timvp]

My main concern with Tolliver is he doesn't have much of a history of being a three-point shooter. His senior year at Creighton, he shot 20% on threes. Last year in the D-League he shot 36% ... but that was only 50 shots (less than one-fourth of his attempts). Take away his three-point shooting and he's not an NBA player.

Bringing him in to space the floor is a risk because he hasn't proven to be a three-point shooter in any stretch other then during this summer league.

[ChumpDumper]

That's what camp will be for. I'd certainly rather take a Brian Skinner at this point, but it will be interesting to see if Tolliver can develop any more of his game.

[ceperez]

My main concern with Tolliver is he doesn't have much of a history of being a three-point shooter. His senior year at Creighton, he shot 20% on threes. Last year in the D-League he shot 36% ... but that was only 50 shots (less than one-fourth of his attempts). Take away his three-point shooting and he's not an NBA player.

Bringing him in to space the floor is a risk because he hasn't proven to be a three-point shooter in any stretch other then during this summer league.

He may have completely reinvented his game. Look at him when he was in college, he looked a lot heavier and played more PF or C. Now he's a lot leaner and appears to play from the perimeter. So you get a guy who can stretch the defense and guard a post play.

He could be a 'James Posey' on the cheap. Posey is 6'6".5 with a 7'0" wingspan. Tolliver has more length.

[Bruno]

Toliver's stats in Germany :
http://statistik.basketball-bundesliga.de/bbl/stats/player/index.php?saison=2008&team=439&spieler_id=9204

[ChumpDumper]

As it is, Tolliver is a one dimensional, one position player. He's got until October to pull something else out of his hat.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

If Tolliver is for real, how about Bonner to Orlando for Mo Evans sined for 2 yrs, 6mil? That would give us another solid wing with a nice midrange game, and Tolliver would take over Bonner's spot.

I think Mo would fit beautifully with the Spurs and help to take some minutes off Manu. I'd like to see Manu playing 1/2 a game for most of next year and saving himself for SPAM.

[SenorSpur]

If Tolliver is for real, how about Bonner to Orlando for Mo Evans sined for 2 yrs, 6mil? That would give us another solid wing with a nice midrange game, and Tolliver would take over Bonner's spot.

I think Mo would fit beautifully with the Spurs and help to take some minutes off Manu. I'd like to see Manu playing 1/2 a game for most of next year and saving himself for SPAM.

To my recollection, Mo Evans is an UFA. If the Spurs want him, they can sign him outright.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98673

[wijayas]

As it is, Tolliver is a one dimensional, one position player. He's got until October to pull something else out of his hat.

Looking at how Tolliver performed in the Summer League, it will be a sin if the FO does not invite him to the training camp. That's the least the FO should do and we take it from there.

[exstatic]

Ducks and Bottomtooth both laughed at me yesterday when i brought this point in the game thread... now that Stein brings it up... what u have to say?

I say you should stop drunken dialing Stein and saying you're an EC executive.

[rj215]

I say you should stop drunken dialing Stein and saying you're an EC executive.

:lol

[AFBlue]

To my recollection, Mo Evans is an UFA. If the Spurs want him, they can sign him outright.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98673

Keyon Dooling was an unrestricted FA and got S&T from the Magic, so it happens.

If the Magic want Bonner and are essentially willing to give up nothing to get him...that'd be the best course of action.

I still say Bonner > Tolliver at this point.