Spurs big men: As it stands now

[lurker23]

Duncan/Bonner/Mahinmi
Oberto/Thomas

Surprisingly, I'm very optimistic about this lineup. Obviously we will see Duncan and Oberto/Thomas in the starting lineup (I suspect we'll see both throughout the year, with Oberto starting opening night), but this also means we'll see solid minutes for Bonner and/or Mahinmi. Here's how I see it breaking down during the regular season:

(There are 96 minutes per game to distribute; for the sake of simplicity, let's distribute 90 minutes, assuming Pop goes to Udoka or Gist at the small ball 4 for an average of 6 minutes a game.)

Duncan - 34 minutes per game
Oberto - 19 mpg
Thomas -19 mpg
Bonner/Mahinmi - 18 mpg

I personally think Oberto/Thomas is the best "two-headed center" we've had since we started using the concept after Robinson's retirement, but I'm also excited about Bonner and Mahinmi getting a chance to prove themselves on the court. I've always been someone who felt that Bonner can be a solid contributor for this team if given decent minutes, and I also feel that Mahinmi needs to be thrown into the fire a bit early in the season.

Obviously many of you are not as optimistic about Bonner as I am, and if Pop agrees with you he will either be benched or traded. How does everyone else see the rotation working out?

[xtremesteven33]

id rather have garbajosa than bonner

[Marcus Bryant]

Oberto's minutes will take a hit next season.

[silk]

It will depen on mahinmi, i feel like he can play a lot better than in summer leagues, he seemed kind of bored at times

[Marcus Bryant]

If all 5 see regular minutes:
Duncan 34 min
Thomas 20 min
Oberto 15 min
Mahinmi 15 min
Bonner 12 min

4 man rotation:
Duncan 35 min
Thomas 21 min
Oberto 20 min
Mahinmi 20 min

[PDXSpursFan]

This is what I expect:

Duncan - 34
Thomas - 20
Oberto - 20
Bonner - garbage time
Mahinmi - back to NBDL (not ready yet)

[bigdog]

I hope Oberto gets the hell out of here in a trade.

[Marcus Bryant]

This is what I expect:

Duncan - 34
Thomas - 20
Oberto - 20
Bonner - garbage time
Mahinmi - back to NBDL (not ready yet)

22 minutes of "garbage time" a night?

Mahinmi's on the active roster next season.

[mrspurs]

I hope Oberto gets the hell out of here in a trade.
just dont see it happening but ya never know....fab's gonna do fab stuff,tip the ball, make a good pass here or there, miss an easy layup or put back...if these are the big boys we go with, imo the FO is gonna wear timmy down like the oilers did earl campbell....

[Marcus Bryant]

How is Mahinmi any less ready than any other 21 year old bigman out there? Yes, he's not polished. Few are. Spurs fans seem to think "going young" entails adding 1st pick overall, no doubt, All-NBA 1st team in their rookie year kind of players.

[ducks]

How is Mahinmi any less ready than any other 21 year old bigman out there? Yes, he's not polished. Few are. Spurs fans seem to think "going young" entails adding 1st pick overall, no doubt, All-NBA 1st team in their rookie year kind of players.

I wish spur fans had nash when he was a rookie

[usckk]

How is Mahinmi any less ready than any other 21 year old bigman out there? Yes, he's not polished. Few are. Spurs fans seem to think "going young" entails adding 1st pick overall, no doubt, All-NBA 1st team in their rookie year kind of players.

Haha, true. It's just hard for Spurs fans to realize this because we hardly every play true young players. For the past few years, our "rookies" were like 29 years old players, a la Oberto and Scola.

[kobyz]

Duncan - 32
Thomas - 22
Mahinmi - 22
Oberto - 10
Gist - 10
Bonner - 0

[Solid D]

James Gist!

[Kori Ellis]

Duncan - 32
Thomas - 20
Oberto - 20
Mahinmi - 14-16
Small ball PF - 8-10

[urunobili]

id rather have garbajosa than bonner

+1

[Hemotivo]

so you guys see Ian playin' for the Spurs the next season?

no more Toros?

[DROB4EVER]

so you guys see Ian playin' for the Spurs the next season?

no more Toros?

He will play from game one next year.

[manufor3]

so you guys see Ian playin' for the Spurs the next season?

no more Toros?

i see gist going for a little toro time

[DROB4EVER]

i see gist going for a little toro time

Yes he will likely see alot of toro time. I would like to see him give us 8mpg but the way pops is with young guys I dont see it happening.

[Nbadan]

Giving up on Bonner so soon?

:lol

[wildchild]

Duncan - 32
Thomas - 20
Oberto - 20
Mahinmi - 14-16
Small ball PF - 8-10

I don't sure. W/O Horry I think Matt'll play more and more.


fab's gonna do fab stuff,tip the ball, make a good pass here or there, miss an easy layup or put back

Agree but with FG%60 I won't see he miss a lot baskets.

[Solid D]

I see Gist as one of the Bigs, now. It's premature, perhaps, but unless James Gist really flops in training camp in October, I think James makes the Spurs a better team - based on what I saw of him in SL play. There have been times over the past couple of seasons when the Spurs needed to disrupt and pressure their opponents with their bench and the Spurs weren't really able to do it. With G-Hill and Gist, I could see how the Spurs could give their starters a rest, pressure full court and do some things. Both of these guys are ball hawks, they get their hands on a lot of balls, and they get after it defensively. Pop resorted to "hack-a-player" in the playoffs in order to disrupt the flow and it worked to some degree. As immobile as Robert Horry had become laterally, it became difficult for him to be effective in presses after scores. He was also a liability on screen/roll switches. Gist could be an ideal replacement for Robert in these situations (not all situations of course)...much better than Matt Bonner has shown.

In my opinion, the Spurs have just drafted two gems. The Spurs can now potentially get some bench stops and run-stops with the likes of Udoka, Gist and Hill. Now if Mason can play better team D than Brent Barry did, opponents won't be shooting .450, and Spurs fans will see defense return to San Antonio.

[urunobili]

Giving up on Bonner so soon?

:lol

he had his chances already... if he was good enough to make this team he would have played last playoffs.... he is trade bait fodder now

[wijayas]

I see Gist as one of the Bigs, now. It's premature, perhaps, but unless James Gist really flops in training camp in October, I think James makes the Spurs a better team - based on what I saw of him in SL play. There have been times over the past couple of seasons when the Spurs needed to disrupt and pressure their opponents with their bench and the Spurs weren't really able to do it. With G-Hill and Gist, I could see how the Spurs could give their starters a rest, pressure full court and do some things. Both of these guys are ball hawks, they get their hands on a lot of balls, and they get after it defensively. Pop resorted to "hack-a-player" in the playoffs in order to disrupt the flow and it worked to some degree. As immobile as Robert Horry had become laterally, it became difficult for him to be effective in presses after scores. He was also a liability on screen/roll switches. Gist could be an ideal replacement for Robert in these situations (not all situations of course)...much better than Matt Bonner has shown.

In my opinion, the Spurs have just drafted two gems. The Spurs can now potentially get some bench stops and run-stops with the likes of Udoka, Gist and Hill. Now if Mason can play better team D than Brent Barry did, opponents won't be shooting .450, and Spurs fans will see defense return to San Antonio.

Amen! :toast

[SenorSpur]

I see Gist as one of the Bigs, now. It's premature, perhaps, but unless James Gist really flops in training camp in October, I think James makes the Spurs a better team - based on what I saw of him in SL play. There have been times over the past couple of seasons when the Spurs needed to disrupt and pressure their opponents with their bench and the Spurs weren't really able to do it. With G-Hill and Gist, I could see how the Spurs could give their starters a rest, pressure full court and do some things. Both of these guys are ball hawks, they get their hands on a lot of balls, and they get after it defensively. Pop resorted to "hack-a-player" in the playoffs in order to disrupt the flow and it worked to some degree. As immobile as Robert Horry had become laterally, it became difficult for him to be effective in presses after scores. He was also a liability on screen/roll switches. Gist could be an ideal replacement for Robert in these situations (not all situations of course)...much better than Matt Bonner has shown.

In my opinion, the Spurs have just drafted two gems. The Spurs can now potentially get some bench stops and run-stops with the likes of Udoka, Gist and Hill. Now if Mason can play better team D than Brent Barry did, opponents won't be shooting .450, and Spurs fans will see defense return to San Antonio.


Couldn't agree more and couldn't have said it any better. :toast

[Manufan909]

I see Gist as one of the Bigs, now. It's premature, perhaps, but unless James Gist really flops in training camp in October, I think James makes the Spurs a better team - based on what I saw of him in SL play. There have been times over the past couple of seasons when the Spurs needed to disrupt and pressure their opponents with their bench and the Spurs weren't really able to do it. With G-Hill and Gist, I could see how the Spurs could give their starters a rest, pressure full court and do some things. Both of these guys are ball hawks, they get their hands on a lot of balls, and they get after it defensively. Pop resorted to "hack-a-player" in the playoffs in order to disrupt the flow and it worked to some degree. As immobile as Robert Horry had become laterally, it became difficult for him to be effective in presses after scores. He was also a liability on screen/roll switches. Gist could be an ideal replacement for Robert in these situations (not all situations of course)...much better than Matt Bonner has shown.

In my opinion, the Spurs have just drafted two gems. The Spurs can now potentially get some bench stops and run-stops with the likes of Udoka, Gist and Hill. Now if Mason can play better team D than Brent Barry did, opponents won't be shooting .450, and Spurs fans will see defense return to San Antonio.

Damn you, Solid D., you've ruined this thread. You just said everything worth saying in one post.
:depressed

So you think Pop'll put Gist in the 3 position more than the 4 this year, or the other way around?

[Solid D]

Ruined? Nah, we're just scratching the surface and the conversation is on-going. To answer your question, I think Gist will be used more as a 4 but injuries and matchups will dictate how much he moves to the wing. That is providing he is on the Active Roster.

[Solid D]

The torch: Malik Rose ---> Robert Horry ---> ? (Bonner? Gist?)

[pad300]

I see Gist as one of the Bigs, now. It's premature, perhaps, but unless James Gist really flops in training camp in October, I think James makes the Spurs a better team - based on what I saw of him in SL play. There have been times over the past couple of seasons when the Spurs needed to disrupt and pressure their opponents with their bench and the Spurs weren't really able to do it. With G-Hill and Gist, I could see how the Spurs could give their starters a rest, pressure full court and do some things. Both of these guys are ball hawks, they get their hands on a lot of balls, and they get after it defensively. Pop resorted to "hack-a-player" in the playoffs in order to disrupt the flow and it worked to some degree. As immobile as Robert Horry had become laterally, it became difficult for him to be effective in presses after scores. He was also a liability on screen/roll switches. Gist could be an ideal replacement for Robert in these situations (not all situations of course)...much better than Matt Bonner has shown.

In my opinion, the Spurs have just drafted two gems. The Spurs can now potentially get some bench stops and run-stops with the likes of Udoka, Gist and Hill. Now if Mason can play better team D than Brent Barry did, opponents won't be shooting .450, and Spurs fans will see defense return to San Antonio.

I agree with you that Gist makes the team, but I am unsure that it is as a big. Certainly, the coaches public plan is that he is the long searched for long 3. Currently our big are Tim, Thomas, Bonner, Oberto, Mahinmi. It is almost certain we will carry 6 bigs. I see another "veteran" professional (not neccesarily NBA - consider when Oberto came over) being brought in, rather than relying on 2 rooks (Mahinmi + Gist). Consider the history
2007 - Oberto, Horry, Bonner, Duncan, Elson/Thomas, Mahinmi (5 Vets, 1 rook)
2006 - Duncan, Oberto, Bonner, Horry, Elson, Bulter (5 Vets, 1 rook)
2005 - Duncan, Mohammed, Nesterovic, Horry, Oberto, Marks (6 vets)
2004 - Duncan, Nesterovic, Mohammed/Rose, Horry, Marks (5 vets) 12 Man roster only

see the pattern - No more than 1 rook in a year. I think Pop respects Euroleague experience more than the D-league. Therefore, I expect another Big to be signed (I am personally hoping to get Javtokas for either the LLE, or the remainder of the MLE).

[Bruno]

The way I see it is that Spurs have 3 battle-proof bigmen with Thomas, Duncan and Oberto.
These 3 players won't be able to cover the 96 mpg available at the PF and C spots. It's even more true when you consider that a Duncan/Thomas frontcourt is too slow against some teams.

At least one of Bonner, Mahinmi and Gist will get some playing time this year and enter in the rotation.

[ceperez]

I agree with you that Gist makes the team, but I am unsure that it is as a big.

Agree. I think he makes the team because of 3 things

(1) He has the length and quickness to guard the big SG, SF and the quick PF.

(2) He'll bring energy and hustle to snag those offensive rebounds.

(3) He's not going to be a liability on offense. He'll make the 3 when open.

See Bonner's problem is that he can't do (1) effectively.

We need (1) desperately. The best way to defend Kobe is with length (see: Pierce). The best way to defend Dirk (see: Posey) is with length and quickness. We've never had that kind of player in our arsenal.

[ceperez]

The way I see it is that Spurs have 3 battle-proof bigmen with Thomas, Duncan and Oberto.
These 3 players won't be able to cover the 96 mpg available at the PF and C spots. It's even more true when you consider that a Duncan/Thomas frontcourt is too slow against some teams.

At least one of Bonner, Mahinmi and Gist will get some playing time this year and enter in the rotation.

As much as I'm dissapointed in Mahinmi's SL play, he's probably our best big that can score on his own. Oberto and Thomas are just too slow and earth bound.

[BWS-1994]

I think Duncan's minutes will depend on how effective Oberto/Thomas/Mahinmi/Bonner would be.

Hopefully, Duncan wouldn't have to play more than 30 mins to give him enough rest for the Play-offs.

[SenorSpur]

Oberto and Thomas are just too slow and earth bound.

Oberto and Thomas are not just earth-bound, they're below sea level, with cement shoes. :lol

[lurker23]

The way I see it is that Spurs have 3 battle-proof bigmen with Thomas, Duncan and Oberto.
These 3 players won't be able to cover the 96 mpg available at the PF and C spots. It's even more true when you consider that a Duncan/Thomas frontcourt is too slow against some teams.

At least one of Bonner, Mahinmi and Gist will get some playing time this year and enter in the rotation.

:tu I think this is really what I was going for with my OP, and this excites me. In the past we've said, "How can we expect Bonner or Mahinmi to get minutes? They're trapped in the pecking order behind the guys who are already built into the rotation."

I think if there's an upside to Splitter staying overseas, this is it. If Splitter came over we'd be talking about an (admittedly more solid) rotation of Duncan, Splitter, Thomas, and Oberto. Now, barring some substantial trade before the season, we know that Bonner and/or Mahinmi (or Gist) will get some serious playing time early in the season. For better or for worse, these guys are going to get on the court, and we'll get a chance to see what they can really do given consistent NBA PT.

[Tully365]

I see Gist as one of the Bigs, now. It's premature, perhaps, but unless James Gist really flops in training camp in October, I think James makes the Spurs a better team - based on what I saw of him in SL play. There have been times over the past couple of seasons when the Spurs needed to disrupt and pressure their opponents with their bench and the Spurs weren't really able to do it. With G-Hill and Gist, I could see how the Spurs could give their starters a rest, pressure full court and do some things. Both of these guys are ball hawks, they get their hands on a lot of balls, and they get after it defensively. Pop resorted to "hack-a-player" in the playoffs in order to disrupt the flow and it worked to some degree. As immobile as Robert Horry had become laterally, it became difficult for him to be effective in presses after scores. He was also a liability on screen/roll switches. Gist could be an ideal replacement for Robert in these situations (not all situations of course)...much better than Matt Bonner has shown.

In my opinion, the Spurs have just drafted two gems. The Spurs can now potentially get some bench stops and run-stops with the likes of Udoka, Gist and Hill. Now if Mason can play better team D than Brent Barry did, opponents won't be shooting .450, and Spurs fans will see defense return to San Antonio.

Nice post. I think there is almost always a tendency to notice offense over defense, especially in summer league play. It definitely looks like the Spurs knew what they were doing when they drafted Hill and Gist, in terms of D. Hill may not be generating the hype that Bayless and Anthony Randolph are, but I bet he made a pretty good impression on OJ Mayo and most of the other guys he has defended recently.

[DROB4EVER]

Bayless and Randolph are gonna get slapped come reg season. No way Randolph makes it a full year at 195lb PF. Hill will be fine he will be a nice 8th man who will be able to defend and he will suprise with his scoring.

[mrspurs]

well looks like tolliver is gonna get gists minutes if any........so far i see another season with a bunch of(minus timmy) big scrubs.......id be surprised if timmy makes thru another season without injury with the minutes he will have to play in order for us to win important games......so far the spurs have gotten rid of dead weight(barry,horry,mighty mouse) the replaced barry and got better(mason) horry wasnt hard to replace(he didnt do much at all this past season but sit and smile)(tolliver) and ill take hill over Pop's mighty mouse anyday or night.......does it makes us good enough? still dont know, still to early......

[Manufan909]

Depends on the new guys in the active roster. I'm confident Mason and Hil can combine for 20 (12/8, respectively), and I'm hoping Mahinmi was bored in the SL, 7pts 7rbs doesn't sound like too much in his first year. Gist and Tolliver Idk, because even if one of them make it, they'd probably be the 13th, 14th, or 15th man. I'm hoping for:

Tony 19/Hill 5
Mason 8/Manu 20/Finley 5(has he been resigned yet)
Bruce 5/Ime 5
Tim 19/Matt 5/ Ian 7
Kurt 5/Oberto 5

With this, somehow I get 107, and I seriously doubt the Spurs can do that. I know I'm close concerning the returning players, but I have no clue as to Mason, Ian, and Hill. Shit, I couldn't even put Gist or Tollver on the roster. What do you think the active roster will be, timvp? I trust your judgement more than mine.

[John_C]

Does anyone here think that Bonner just needs to have more exposure and trust from Pop and he'll become a fine role player for us? I really think Bonner has the skill set, and with regards to BB IQ, I think it would be a matter of not getting depressed if Pop goes down on him for his mistakes. Players tend to focus more on their mistakes if they feel there is less trust put on them.

[mystargtr34]

Depends on the new guys in the active roster. I'm confident Mason and Hil can combine for 20 (12/8, respectively), and I'm hoping Mahinmi was bored in the SL, 7pts 7rbs doesn't sound like too much in his first year. Gist and Tolliver Idk, because even if one of them make it, they'd probably be the 13th, 14th, or 15th man. I'm hoping for:

Tony 19/Hill 5
Mason 8/Manu 20/Finley 5(has he been resigned yet)
Bruce 5/Ime 5
Tim 19/Matt 5/ Ian 7
Kurt 5/Oberto 5

With this, somehow I get 107, and I seriously doubt the Spurs can do that. I know I'm close concerning the returning players, but I have no clue as to Mason, Ian, and Hill. Shit, I couldn't even put Gist or Tollver on the roster. What do you think the active roster will be, timvp? I trust your judgement more than mine.


Manu wont be scoring 20 a game this season after what happened to him in the playoffs. His minutes will probably go down to around 28 and he will probably average around 16-17 ppg. I think this will be the season TP steps up and bumps his average into the 20's.

Either way, its hard to come up with totals, as much as TP likes to run, this is still gonne be a team with one of the lowest Pace Factors in the league so were probably looking at about 97-100 PPG.

[Manufan909]

I guess I wasn't too off, then.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Manu wont be scoring 20 a game this season after what happened to him in the playoffs. His minutes will probably go down to around 28 and he will probably average around 16-17 ppg. I think this will be the season TP steps up and bumps his average into the 20's.

Either way, its hard to come up with totals, as much as TP likes to run, this is still gonne be a team with one of the lowest Pace Factors in the league so were probably looking at about 97-100 PPG.

Not sure how we got around to talking about Manu in a big man thread, but...

He's going to get a lot of rest to start the season coming off the Olympics.

We will be in trouble if Manu is playing over 30 minutes a night before April. He had to do it this past spring so we could stay in the playoff race, but I suspect the Spurs are counting on Mason doing what he did when Arenas and Antawn went down in D.C. - putting up about 17 a night as a starter.

[ceperez]

Does anyone here think that Bonner just needs to have more exposure and trust from Pop and he'll become a fine role player for us? I really think Bonner has the skill set, and with regards to BB IQ, I think it would be a matter of not getting depressed if Pop goes down on him for his mistakes. Players tend to focus more on their mistakes if they feel there is less trust put on them.

The Spurs surely had a good reason for signing him on a long term contract. Unfortunately, I have yet to see him really shine.

[Manufan909]

Indeed. He was solid before his injury last year, and since then he never truly gained Pop's trust back. Want I don't get is that he was the emergency starter when Duncan was out, and then he dissapeared onto the bench shortly after.