Atlanta Journal-Constitution: Childress leaving Hawks to join Greek franchise

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/hawks/stories/2008/07/23/childress_hawks_greece.html

Childress leaving Hawks to join Greek franchise

Restricted free agent confirms signing with Olympiakos of Greece

By SEKOU SMITH
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 07/23/08

Atlanta Hawks fans won't have to fret over the fate of restricted free agent swingman Josh Childress anymore.

That's because Childress is no longer a Hawk. He said he agreed to terms Wednesday morning on a three-year contract with Olympiakos of Greece that is worth far more than $20 million initially reported.

"It's official, I just signed," Childress said by phone Wednesday morning from Athens, where he and agent Jim Tanner will be until Friday. "I think it was . . . a situation where I didn't know who to expect coming in, coming over to Athens. But it's a great city and a great organization. They do whatever they can to make you feel at home."

The deal is the most lucrative current contract in European basketball and the biggest in Euroleague history. It's also another step in the globalization of the game, a trend that got a huge boost recently when the top-rated U.S. high school player, California native Brandon Jennings, opted for a contract with an Italian team over playing at Arizona.

Childress' move is a blow to the Hawks, who have no recourse to match an offer made to a restricted free agent by a non-NBA team. The Hawks are also in negotiations with their other restricted free agent, Josh Smith.

The Hawks retain Childress's NBA rights for at least two years, but they lose one of the league's best and most efficient sixth men without immediate compensation. The Hawks, per the rules of restricted free agency, had the right to match any competing offers from NBA teams.

Childress representatives and Hawks officials negotiated for weeks on a contract extension but could never come close to agreeing to terms. The Hawks offered Childress a five-year deal with a starting salary in excess of the mid-level exception of $5.5 million.

But Childress, 25, spurned the Hawks' $33 million offer for a more lucrative deal with Olympiakos.

With no salary cap for European teams, Olympiakos could offer whatever they wanted to entice Childress to leave the NBA for the international game. Childress will, however, have the option of opting out his contract with Olympiakos at the end of each season, which gives Childress maximum flexibility were he to choose to return to the NBA after this season.

Childress's playing time dipped last season by seven minutes, from 36.9 to 29.9 a night, from the previous season. He averaged 11.8 points on 57 percent shooting.

He was one of just six players in the league to average at least 10 points and 4 rebounds while also shooting better than 50 percent (.571) from the floor and making 20 or more 3-pointers. Shawn Marion, Lamar Odom, Mike Miller, Grant Hill and Andre Kirilenko were the others.

In four years with the Hawks, Childress averaged 11.1 points, 5.6 rebounds and 1.8 assists as one of the league's best sixth men, he finished sixth in the voting for the Sixth Man award last season.

Chosen by the Hawks with the sixth pick of the 2004 NBA draft, Childress was one of the cornerstone's of a rebuilding effort that also included Smith, picked 17th in that same draft.

They both helped the Hawks end nearly a decade of struggles with the franchise's first postseason bid in nine years, which ended in a Game 7 loss to the eventual NBA champion Boston Celtics in May.

[MoSpur]

Its gonna happen more and more.

[Extra Stout]

I'm glad the Spurs got their titles before the NBA declined into a second-tier league.

[urunobili]

what is sad is that high school stars will start going overseas and choose money and pro ball vs college... they can develop there to then be drafted and go tot he NBA...

[VaSpursFan]

just the tip of the iceberg.

[hater]

I'm glad the Spurs got their titles before the NBA declined into a second-tier league.

:tu

it's gonna become a "shitty" league in world standards. kinda like the MLS

[Streakyshooter08]

Very interesting.

[Extra Stout]

The MLS is as good as the Mexican League...

[freddy79]

what is sad is that high school stars will start going overseas and choose money and pro ball vs college... they can develop there to then be drafted and go tot he NBA...

Are you sure about that? Think about a BIG SEASON from Jennings and a very BIG offer from Europe: in this scenario (considering that, even IF he's chosen in the top three - not sure about that - he could earn MORE money in Europe than in the first 3-4 NBA years...), he could also decide TO STAY in Europe: I'm Italian,and I ASSURE you, he'll LIKE staing in Rome, A LOT MORE than going in Minneapolis or Memphis (nothing against these two cities, but Rome is another story...). Have you seen Childress: now NOT ONLY European players, but also American ones could prefer to go to Europe and get bigger money: and the escape is not done...knowing Greece and Panathinaikos, they'll not stand without do something when their bigger enemy in the earth (Olympiakos) makes a BIG transaction: PAO could also try to answer...and next year, I'm sure, if this trend goes on (and until salary cap, rookie scale and luxury tax will exsist, this trend WILL go on...don't think about Euro-Dollar exchange: Russia does not have Euro, but bigger players are going there this summer...), MANY OTHER good players will come to Europe. Basket is fastly growing in Europe, and many more great teams will rise on in the future (as Khimki did in the last 2-3 years).

[Mr. Body]

Holy shit, that's amazing.

Well, that's the decline of the dollar for you. You see this stuff, Budweiser getting bought by a Belgian/Brazilian brewery company. You'll see it more and more. That's what grotesque levels of cutting taxes while vastly increasing spending will do - it devalues the dollar to great levels - not to mention vast discretionary spending on a senseless war.

David Stern must be shitting his expensive britches about now.

If I'm a young guy, just the prospect of getting paid to play in Europe would get me moving. As someone said upthread, fuck Atlanta. That town sucks.

[nkdlunch]

remember when Stern wanted NBA to go GLOBAL?

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[hater]

The MLS is as good as the Mexican League...

thanks for proving my point. compared to Euros, mexican league is shitty

[VaSpursFan]

seriously, let's really think about this. the NBA players (current and future) going overseas are getting paid salaries comparable to the NBA but are playing less games to get it. So you're getting more money per game in addition to having certain things paid for (i.e., housing, car, etc.). who wouldn't take this deal??? i'm telling you, the snowball is gaining speed as it goes downhill. NBA going global is NOT going to happen anytime soon. Stern has a serious situation on his hand because his product is about to get shitty fast.

[MoSpur]

I'm gonna study to be a sports agent to help those H.S kids go to Europe to play ball.

[mathbzh]

I wonder how many player could go to Europe at the same time with such contracts.

[tav1]

Did Childress get a 3 yr 73 million dollar deal? Just curious.

[Bartleby]

It's starting to look like all that cap space the Spurs are planning to have in 2010 is going to come with a lot less buying power.

[SenorSpur]

just the tip of the iceberg.

Amen!

[kobyz]

why Childress take the $20 million 3 years offer from Olympiakos over the $35 million 5 years offer from Atlanta?

[MoSpur]

He got more than 20 million.

[oligarchy]

what is sad is that high school stars will start going overseas and choose money and pro ball vs college... they can develop there to then be drafted and go tot he NBA...

Not always. If they prove their worth in their time overseas, they will be offered large contracts. The NBA's rookie scale salary would prevent them from getting a large contract. Meaning they would have to be drafted in the second to be able to be offered a contract that could match. It's not really a good thing.

[hater]

why Childress take the $20 million 3 years offer from Olympiakos over the $35 million 5 years offer from Atlanta?

Euro deal is tax free + other incentives. Atlanta would have to offer over 60 mil to even get close.

[urunobili]

Not always. If they prove their worth in their time overseas, they will be offered large contracts. The NBA's rookie scale salary would prevent them from getting a large contract. Meaning they would have to be drafted in the second to be able to be offered a contract that could match. It's not really a good thing.

well i never said it's a good thing in my post to begin with... but this kind of moves will force the NBA to:

1) Lower the minimum age of a player to be draft eligible
2) Change the rookie minimum salary scale
3) change the draft system and the player rights acquisition
4) re consider the globalization of the NBA as a good thing for the league

the fun is about to start

[Buddy Holly]

So a so-so role player from the Atlanta Hawks signs overseas and the league is going to become shitty? Man, when you people leap, you leap hard.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Euro deal is tax free + other incentives.

plus you get to live in Greece for a few years. Sweet deal all around.

[lotr1trekkie]

NBA needs to eliminate that dum won yere in cowwage rule. Some basketball studs/non academics should have the right to earn a living at 18 & not be admitted to college based on academic skills that are middle school at best. I know. I've tried to instruct furture NBA players who enter major programs with 6th grade reading skills. College for college students, the NBA for kids who have game. Don't mix oil with water!!!

[1Parker1]

Wow...

What do they mean exactly when they say "They lose Childress without immediate compensation?"

[mathbzh]

Wow...

What do they mean exactly when they say "They lose Childress without immediate compensation?"

That they lose Childress

[Bartleby]

I feel sort of sorry for Hawks fans. First, they have to endure countless years of cellar dwelling due to incompetence from the front office and their ownership. Then, when they finally start to see some results from all those lottery picks, they lose one of their most productive players and get nothing in return.

[cant w8 4 2012]

So a so-so role player from the Atlanta Hawks signs overseas and the league is going to become shitty? Man, when you people leap, you leap hard.

Dumbass, If Holt don't wanna compete against N.B.A. teams with a cap for free agents.How far do you think he'll go to keep Tony Parker in his prime with his home country offering 100+ mil.

[Indazone]

Yeah Parker and Ginobili are probably looking at these deals thinking hmmmmm.

[Darcus]

This will happen more and more if someone doesn't step up and fix America. We're losing our lead over the rest of the world, and soon we'll be equal. And if things continue this way, we'll be worse off.

Get used to it.

[JamStone]

Good for Childress. I do think more players will look at Europe as an option. But, I don't think it will affect the NBA nearly as much as some might think. Most of the NBA caliber players that will go to international teams will be MLE caliber players or less. NBA stars will get paid by NBA teams. There might be a few NBA players that are worth more than the MLE that take a chance in Europe, but I think it will be more so a rare occurrence than a growing concern. NBA caliber players still want to play in the NBA, particularly if they are American born. Now, it might hurt the NBA in the sense that more international born players may elect to stay overseas rather than go to the NBA. But, that has already been happening the last few years, with players like Bodiroga, Scola before he finally came over to join the Rockets, Fran Vazquez, JC Navarro before he played one year at Memphis among others. That's where the NBA might take a hit more, getting the best international players to play in the NBA.

I think Jennings is also a rare case. I don't think that many straight out of high school players will be doing that. First of all, it's already a huge adjustment for a 17-18 year old kid going away to college. Making a jump to a different country with a different lifestyle and perhaps different language is pretty daunting for kids that age. I think it will be a case where a high school kid is really desperate because he can't get his college entrance scores high enough like Jennings had a problem with. And, it's only a huge deal if he's a top 10 player out of high school, because even the very best high school players aren't necessarily guaranteed to project to be NBA players. There are other options anyway, from going to a junior or community college to playing in another American league like the USBL (if it's still around) or a CBA type league.

This will have an effect on the NBA, but I don't think it's that big of a deal yet or anytime soon.

[hater]

So a so-so role player from the Atlanta Hawks signs overseas and the league is going to become shitty? Man, when you people leap, you leap hard.

not too bright huh? money talks and if Euro teams start showing the money like Jerry Maguire(which they are starting to do more and more), I see even stars like Kobe, Parker, Nash, Manu going overseas.

have you realized there is a real estate crisis btw?

[mathbzh]

How big would be a similar contract in the NBA?
Delfino 4.5M$ a year is similar top a 9+M$ contract in the NBA... does it mean Childress is given a contract corresponding to 14 M$/year :wow ???

[Marcus Bryant]

Childress' deal will not be tax free unless he decides to renounce his US citizenship.

[Buddy Holly]

Dumbass, If Holt don't wanna compete against N.B.A. teams with a cap for free agents.How far do you think he'll go to keep Tony Parker in his prime with his home country offering 100+ mil.

You just typed that and you're calling me a dumbass. :wow

[Buddy Holly]

not too bright huh? money talks and if Euro teams start showing the money like Jerry Maguire(which they are starting to do more and more), I see even stars like Kobe, Parker, Nash, Manu going overseas.

have you realized there is a real estate crisis btw?

Not too bright? Where are you little retards coming from?

I asked how you can just conclude the league is going to be shitty because some MLE player jumped to play overseas.

[urunobili]

Childress' deal will not be tax free unless he decides to renounce his US citizenship.

americans earning money abroad for more than 2 years DO NOT have to pay income taxes. i work for an american company here and for many americans living here it's a great move to come a couple of years.. they are buying houses and new cars with the tax saving money... they go back to the US just a lil after the time frame on purpose...

[Mr. Body]

Childress' deal will not be tax free unless he decides to renounce his US citizenship.

European deals are still announced in post-tax terms, right? Every player still pays taxes, none of the deals are tax-free; it's a matter of how the figures are announced.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'd be more concerned about the long-term effects of a deal like this one if it was a European team topping the NBA max to lure a superstar -- say that Kobe becomes restricted in a year or so and CSKA (just to throw a name out) offers him a Jordan-like $30M/yr contract for 5 years. That's substantially more than Kobe can make under the current CBA, even with the Lakers and it might be enough of a temptation to lure a player like Kobe.

It's going to be even more interesting if the Euro leagues eliminate their rules about the numbers of foreign players who can populate rosters and things like that.

I also think this might be an opening movement towards some sort of world basketball merger -- assuming the Euro clubs aren't able to simply outprice the NBA teams at some point.

Finally, I wonder if FIBA might get involved in international transfers like these and create a system similar to that used among the European football leagues to allow transfers between leagues with some form of compensation going back and forth.

[Buddy Holly]

americans earning money abroad for more than 2 years DO NOT have to pay income taxes. i work for an american company here and for many americans living here it's a great move to come a couple of years.. they are buying houses and new cars with the tax saving money... they go back to the US just a lil after the time frame on purpose...

This is more than likely a one year deal for him.

[FromWayDowntown]

This is more than likely a one year deal for him.

It's a multi-year deal with an option at the end of each season.

[IcemanCometh]

This won't affect college basketball. Think about it how many of the big-time stud prospects from Europe actually do well in the league. They are always getting 8 mpg because their team wants to win and they simply can't compete with the older more developed players. Any high school prospect would have a contract such that he couldn't just bolt to the nba draft after 1 year. They also wouldn't get the exposure here in the states like they would at a big time program. Sure its a lot of money now but the potential for real NBA riches , and all it comes with, would be forfeit. Brandon Jennings went to Europe because he had to, he didn't qualify for college. I don't expect it to be a common thing.

Now NBA role players going to Europe for more money, that will become a bigger problem.

[Buddy Holly]

It's a multi-year deal with an option at the end of each season.

I know it's three years, I'm talking about him signing with an NBA team next summer when he can get more than he could this off season.

[urunobili]

Finally, I wonder if FIBA might get involved in international transfers like these and create a system similar to that used among the European football leagues to allow transfers between leagues with some form of compensation going back and forth.
the compensation are based on "Player development" thing that the NBA wouldn;t have any right to claim... maybe high schools and/or universities will get some sort of.. that's what the US system of player development has nowadays... in south america and most countries non us/canada... a player plays in a club separate from where he has his education... and there is where is is developed... form there the compensation for player development they claim when they are transfered...

[Marcus Bryant]

americans earning money abroad for more than 2 years DO NOT have to pay income taxes. i work for an american company here and for many americans living here it's a great move to come a couple of years.. they are buying houses and new cars with the tax saving money... they go back to the US just a lil after the time frame on purpose...

Then they are going to receive a not so nice visit from the IRS when they return.

What you are referring to is the exclusion of income earned abroad, which is around $82K. For a $20 mil contract, that won't really help that much.

[stéphane]

I honestly think it's really good for everybody.
I mean if some role players and decent us players come in euroleague it will raise european level. So some euro could develop faster in a more competitive environment and be nba ready when drafted...

[mathbzh]

I honestly think it's really good for everybody.
I mean if some role players and decent us players come in euroleague it will raise european level. So some euro could develop faster in a more competitive environment and be nba ready when drafted...

I don't think so, at least not the raw athletes (Mahinmi type). Right now most Euro prospect barely play. If you add more and more US players it will not help them to develop.

Just think about soccer. The "Premier League" supremacy didn't help english players to develop much.

[Slinkyman]

Wait till one of these teams offers Lebron 100 million, for 3 years.

[Obstructed_View]

College players can't get enough money to go on a date, and they typically don't have time or aren't allowed to get jobs. If they don't have mommy and daddy's money, then going overseas to play pro ball is going to get more and more attractive. As the level of competition goes up the allure of the NBA will drop. It only takes one blue chip high school prospect or one top level pro to start the tide turning.

[pad300]

European deals are still announced in post-tax terms, right? Every player still pays taxes, none of the deals are tax-free; it's a matter of how the figures are announced.

Correct, it is a matter of how things are reported. Euro press reports contracts in post tax terms. This is because most European countries consider the amount of taxes a person pays to be confidential/legally protected information (ie they can sue if you release it to the public). I have heard estimates that the average (top bracket) tax rate for the NBA cities is 42%. Therefore, translating Euro contracts to NBA terms is as follows.

(Value of Euro Contract)/ (1-0.42) = (Value of NBA Contract)

Value of Euro Contract/0.58 = (Value of NBA Contract)

1.724* (Value of Euro Contract) = (Value of NBA Contract)

Note, if the Euro contract value is not in US$, then you still have to adjust for currency differences. Childress is supposed to be getting $US 20 Million/ 3 years. This is translates to $US 34.5 Million /3 years in NBA terms. This is much better than what the Hawks offered him - he's getting paid the same amount over 3 years instead of 5.

Note to Marcus Bryant. THE TAXES ARE BEING PAID. It's just that the amount of tax paid is not legal to publish in Europe. You can probably even figure it out how much it was from the published data, assuming you know the tax code in the country where they are playing. Uncle Sam will get his cut, it's just they can't legally publish that information...

[The Truth #6]

This is hilarious. People are staking their arguments on interpretations of tax code.

I don't think most American born players really want to play in Europe in their prime. The money can be better, but they're still making millions in the U.S. I think many athletes don't have a positive outlook on living abroad, unless of course there's an "Entourage Compensation Clause" in the contract. I think Childress was uncommon in that he was more open to the idea than others would have been.

If anything, this move will help US players leverage more money for an NBA contract. It could be the reverse Tiago Splitter effect, so to speak.

[Indazone]

Then they are going to receive a not so nice visit from the IRS when they return.

What you are referring to is the exclusion of income earned abroad, which is around $82K. For a $20 mil contract, that won't really help that much.


It will if you stick your money in a Swiss Bank account.

[Marcus Bryant]

It will if you stick your money in a Swiss Bank account.

Doesn't matter to the IRS.

[JamStone]

College players can't get enough money to go on a date, and they typically don't have time or aren't allowed to get jobs. If they don't have mommy and daddy's money, then going overseas to play pro ball is going to get more and more attractive. As the level of competition goes up the allure of the NBA will drop. It only takes one blue chip high school prospect or one top level pro to start the tide turning.

The college players that would actually be courted by international teams DO get enough money in college. Let's be real. The ones that are worth an international team going after them are getting paid under the table. The 12th man on Drake University's basketball team isn't going to be getting a very lucrative offer from a pro team overseas.

[FromWayDowntown]

the compensation are based on "Player development" thing that the NBA wouldn;t have any right to claim... maybe high schools and/or universities will get some sort of.. that's what the US system of player development has nowadays... in south america and most countries non us/canada... a player plays in a club separate from where he has his education... and there is where is is developed... form there the compensation for player development they claim when they are transfered...

I'm thinking more of the sorts of fees that are exchanged between football clubs when, say, Ronaldinho goes from Barca to AC Milan (changing leagues). I realize that such fees aren't a staple of international basketball at this point, but I wonder if transactions like this one might encourage FIBA to create rules requiring the exchange of some form of compensation when players are vultured like this.

[Indazone]

Doesn't matter to the IRS.

Why do you think people stick their assets in a Swiss Bank Account anyways? :rolleyes

[Buddy Holly]

Why do you think people stick their assets in a Swiss Bank Account anyways? :rolleyes

To hide money the government doesn't know about.

[kobyz]

he is RFA, Atlanta can match any offer

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

he is RFA, Atlanta can match any offer

If you sign with a team out of the country and/or league, you are an unrestricted free agent.

[Indazone]

To hide money the government doesn't know about.
He's only going to be taxed on that money if he tries to bring it into the USA. I digress however. Josh Smith is next.

Wouldn't it be funny if Josh signed with rival Pana?

[pad300]

he is RFA, Atlanta can match any offer

Olympiakos isn't part of the NBA. It is not bound by the collective bargaining agreement between the Players Union and the NBA. No, Atlanta has no rights in this negotiation. They don't get to match. They don't get to do anything except wave goodbye, once Childress has signed. The only thing they do get, I think, is that Childress remains their RFA with respect to the rest of the NBA teams. When his contract with Olympiakos ends, he will be treated as an RFA by the rest of the NBA. This has no effect on his negotiations with any non-NBA team...

[FromWayDowntown]

If you sign with a team out of the country and/or league, you are an unrestricted free agent.

As I understand it, if he tries to come back to the NBA in the next two summers (09 or 10), the Hawks can match the offer made by the NBA team that tries to sign him. But there's absolutely no mechanism to allow the Hawks to match an offer by a club in a different league.

[Marcus Bryant]

He's only going to be taxed on that money if he tries to bring it into the USA. I digress however.

The IRS doesn't care what you do with the cash.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

As I understand it, if he tries to come back to the NBA in the next two summers (09 or 10), the Hawks can match the offer made by the NBA team that tries to sign him. But there's absolutely no mechanism to allow the Hawks to match an offer by a club in a different league.

Exactly.

[Mr. Body]

It'll be fascinating when the first player signs abroad during his NBA contract. Does anyone know how this works? As far as I know there are no buyout provisions in stateside contracts because no one figured players would be bolting to play anywhere else.

[spurster]

I wonder what the Hawks were offering Childress. Maybe he didn't like their offer or got tired of waiting.

[pad300]

The IRS doesn't care what you do with the cash.


Quit posting the same stupidity over and over. Please read carefully

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2681513&postcount=52

THE TAXES ARE BEING PAID. THEY ARE ONLY NOT PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED BECAUSE OF EUROPEAN LAWS. YOU'RE INABILITY TO COMPREHEND THIS IS GOD-DAMNED MINDBOGGLINGLY STUPID!!!

[FromWayDowntown]

It'll be fascinating when the first player signs abroad during his NBA contract. Does anyone know how this works? As far as I know there are no buyout provisions in stateside contracts because no one figured players would be bolting to play anywhere else.

From a legal standpoint, the player would be in breach of his contract with the NBA team and would be subject to the financial penalties that arise from the breach. Argued creatively, those damages could be rather steep. I would think that the possibility of facing a suit for damages might create sufficient practical disincentive to prevent breaches.

Of course, the player's side might be able to come up with some creative arguments to prove some form of repudiation or prior material breach by the club and use that to justify his own breach.

[Bruno]

Childress going overseas he is a huge event. It will have major consequences.
If I had to bet on something, I would say that the NBA will expand to Europe as soon as 2011.

[FromWayDowntown]

Childress going overseas he is a huge event. It will have major consequences.
If I had to bet on something, I would say that the NBA will expand to Europe as soon as 2011.

Expansion? or a merger that involves some of the top European clubs?

[ChumpDumper]

It'll be fascinating when the first player signs abroad during his NBA contract. Does anyone know how this works? As far as I know there are no buyout provisions in stateside contracts because no one figured players would be bolting to play anywhere else.That can't happen since all the significant leagues work under the umbrella of FIBA and are bound by its rules to respect each other's contracts. The penalties for attempted circumvention are pretty severe for players and agents; they can include being blackballed from any FIBA league for multiple years.

[Bruno]

It'll be fascinating when the first player signs abroad during his NBA contract.

A player can't do that. When a player signed a contract in Europe or in NBA, his contract is send to the FIBA who checks if he is linked with another team.
If the player still has a contract, the second one is voided.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

NBA and Euroleague, Greek league, and Russian league should all just come together and create a mega league. They shall call it the AMCBL. The Association of the Multi-Country Basketball League. Any other half-ass league is welcome to join.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Expansion? or a merger that involves some of the top European clubs?

Hopefully merger.

[Indazone]

See old American Basketball Association for ramifications to the NBA.

[Bruno]

Expansion? or a merger that involves some of the top European clubs?

Merging + expansion.
I can imagine some franchises being created in big markets like France, Germany and England and some Euro teams like CSKA Moscow becoming NBA franchises.

[GSH]

He's only going to be taxed on that money if he tries to bring it into the USA. I digress however. Josh Smith is next.

Wouldn't it be funny if Josh signed with rival Pana?

No, you ignorant asshole. The only way he would not be taxed on that money is if he renounces his American citizenship. And it doesn't matter what bank he decides to put it in, either.

Why don't you find a fucking Chinese forum, and go discuss Yao's health problems or something?

[clubalien]

See old American Basketball Association for ramifications to the NBA.

a will farrel movie:lmao

[clubalien]

NBA has candian teams,, always thought that was intresting

[VaSpursFan]

Merging + expansion.
I can imagine some franchises being created in big markets like France, Germany and England and some Euro teams like CSKA Moscow becoming NBA franchises.

i just don't see the FIBA teams being willing to expand their seasons to 82 games but i could be wrong.

[Bartleby]

i just don't see the FIBA teams being willing to expand their seasons to 82 games but i could be wrong.

If it means more revenue for the owners, I don't see why they would be against it.

[Indazone]

Actually if you're going to play the rest of the World for a true basketball championship, you are going to have to cut the NBA season down some.

[Indazone]

Taxes from US Citizens working abroad is subject to an 82,000 tax exemption. The rest can be taxed is US citizen but I was not wrong about Swiss Banks.

Taxation

Swiss law distinguishes between tax evasion and tax fraud. If any holdings are not declared to the taxation authorities, a natural or legal person commits tax evasion. Tax evasion is not considered an offence, but only a misdemeanour. It is assumed that failed declaration of one's assets is not sufficient evidence for criminal intent, as the chance of unintentional failure is too high. However, tax fraud is considered a criminal offence under Swiss law and prosecuted according to the Swiss Penal Code. A forged tax declaration, like the statement of significantly below-market valuation of real estate or the counterfeiting of bank statements, is a criminal offense.

[VaSpursFan]

Actually if you're going to play the rest of the World for a true basketball championship, you are going to have to cut the NBA season down some.

agree. the rest of the world has one schedule and we have another. then if you factor in overseas travel time, the logisitics get a little hairy.

moreover, if FIBA salaries are already comparable to NBA salaries for less games, they would have to pony up more cash for an 82 game season. that could be an obstacle for NBA teams to attract talent in a true global league since the NBA already compensates based on 82 games.

[VaSpursFan]

Taxes from US Citizens working abroad is subject to an 82,000 tax exemption. The rest can be taxed is US citizen but I was not wrong about Swiss Banks.

Taxation

Swiss law distinguishes between tax evasion and tax fraud. If any holdings are not declared to the taxation authorities, a natural or legal person commits tax evasion. Tax evasion is not considered an offence, but only a misdemeanour. It is assumed that failed declaration of one's assets is not sufficient evidence for criminal intent, as the chance of unintentional failure is too high. However, tax fraud is considered a criminal offence under Swiss law and prosecuted according to the Swiss Penal Code. A forged tax declaration, like the statement of significantly below-market valuation of real estate or the counterfeiting of bank statements, is a criminal offense.


the only problem with that is that Josh's contract is public knowledge. The IRS is fully aware of the situation and expect a certain amount of taxes to be paid by him. If he stashes in a swiss bank account, he'd better not have any intent of returning to the US. The IRS has agents that track shit like this.

[Bartleby]

agree. the rest of the world has one schedule and we have another. then if you factor in overseas travel time, the logisitics get a little hairy.

moreover, if FIBA salaries are already comparable to NBA salaries for less games, they would have to pony up more cash for an 82 game season. that could be an obstacle for NBA teams to attract talent in a true global league since the NBA already compensates based on 82 games.

Good point. I guess the more realistic change would be the NBA cutting back on the number of regular season games.

[Indazone]

Except those Euroleague teams do not play as many games as the NBA and yet are paying higher than NBA salaries to Nachbar, Childress, Delfino, and possibly Scola. eek!

Here's an interesting article I found on the evolution of Euroleague Ball to give you an idea what they are thinking over there.

All-star symposium discusses European basketball's evolution
A panel of European basketball greats looked to the past and the future during the annual Final Four symposium in Madrid on Saturday. The symposium, "50 Years of European Club Basketball: The evolution of the game on and off the court", offered six distinguished panel members the opportunity to discuss the changes from European club basketball's early beginnings on outdoor courts to today's game as played in glitzy arenas and relayed live around the world through technology. The panelists were Borislav Stankovic, FIBA Secretary General Emeritus; Eduardo Portela, ULEB President; Shimon Mizrahi, Maccabi Tel Aviv President; Dejan Bodiroga, Lottomatica Roma Team Manager; Aito Garcia Reneses, DKV Joventut Head Coach; and Sergio Scariolo, Unicaja Head Coach. The audience consisted of Final Four guests, media members and students of the Masters in Sports Marketing and Communications co-sponsored by Euroleague Basketball and Universita Ca´ Foscari in Venice, Italy. Here are some excerpts of their discussion.

Borislav Stankovic, FIBA Secretary General Emeritus

- "That Euroleague Basketball has 2.5 million spectators in one season now is remarkable. When we started, those kinds of numbers were just unthinkable. There is a great interest in the game but also in the business of Euroleague basketball as well. Overhead costs have gone up, so there is a greater need to generate revenues. "

- "We need unity to have strength in European basketball. We cannot have two groups. We simply need to find the ways to work together and I don't think we are far from it. "

- "We need to work much harder on the organization of the games. Music and entertainment are necessary. We can draw ideas from others of how things can be done. It doesn't have to be only a game. It can also be about listening to music and about being a show. It should be a small show. And this can work if we work with the clubs."

- "If we have a good organization and a good game, I think the economic situation of the Euroleague clubs will improve. I don't think we need to worry about Americans taking our players. If you can earn enough here, I think the players will decide to stay here. "

Eduardo Portela, ULEB President

- "The Euroleague is a great organization but we need to organize with FIBA. Altogether, we've been successful. We've wanted to control our destiny and we succeeded with that. We need to make good use of that capacity. It's good we have the agreement with FIBA Europe which establishes the role of both organizations and where all organizations will benefit."

- "In my humble opinion, I think there is a great crisis in American basketball. There is a problem in U.S. colleges. There are no players coming up. So the NBA is going to find players they like in Europe. But we have to be patient and go on working and redoubling our effort and waiting until the trend reverses itself. We cannot beat them. It's the players themselves who will decide. Bodiroga decided to not go and to stay in Europe. We need to be patient."

Shimon Mizrahi, Maccabi Tel Aviv President

- "Before, basketball was shining in smaller cities like Cantu, Varese and Pau-Orthez, which won the French domestic league and then played in Europe. And now you see big cities like Rome, Berlin and Brussels doing their best to build winning teams. "

- "We cannot ignore the fact that the former Yugoslavia supplied so many players and coaches. And with the Soviet Union there were political issues that interfered with the sport with games being forfeited and played at neutral sites. But will the fall of the Iron Curtain, the issue became history. "

- "We also have more exposure now compared to soccer. In the past it was difficult to find coverage. But today there is a lot more coverage in the papers and on the internet. "

- "Another major factor over the time was foreigners and naturalization of players and the Bosman ruling. We discovered talent in South America and Africa and they have made an impact on the Euroleague basketball. "

Dejan Bodiroga, Lottomatica Roma Team Manager

- "We see more players coming from countries that we would not say are historical basketball countries. But they are very important players for their teams and that is very good for basketball. "

- "The game has changed. We don't see players scoring 25 or 30 points a game any more. The game is more physical. There are more tactics. And the game is more collective, players play more for the team. Also, many of the players are young and many people forget some essential things. You need to have a good fundamental basis to play the game correctly. The game is not just physical. And sometimes young players forget that and that could be a problem in the future."

- "The game has evolved tremendously. We see great talent in the players - even more than 15 or 20 years back. Players leave for America and succeed. Twenty years ago that was unthinkable. But Europe is quite a different place. Only with the help of all will we be able to succeed and I think we have come to a great point in the history of our sport."

Aito Garcia Reneses, DKV Joventut Head Coach

- "We used to look to university and college basketball as our reference. But the main difference was the execution of the fundamentals of the game, they did that at a much faster speed. And I think we in Europe have learned to speed up the execution of the fundamentals. "

- "Early on we were astounded by the level of the NBA game. Eventually we caught up to the NBA. Thanks to the efforts of many managers, players and coaches from the U.S., we improved the level of our game. But we haven't fallen into the overall trap of over-marketing the game."

- "Of course, European basketball is not as strong as the NBA. We don't have the dollars and financial strength of the NBA. But I think over the past few years we are getting there. "

Sergio Scariolo, Unicaja Head Coach

- "I think we have all come to realize that the product that we are trying to sell is the most important part. And the product is the game. And we have to promote the game. But if the quality goes down, it will be more difficult to get fans and sponsors."

- "We have seen an evolution of the physiques of the players, in their bodies. Science has had a very important role in the evolution of the game as well, with training techniques and recovery techniques."

- "I think the turning point came with the three-time champion Split teams (1989-1991) - not because of the results but because of the style of the game, their movement and speed and the participation of more players. That was the turning point - more of a concept of team play for the collective."

- "I think we would all agree that the evolution of the game will always favor the players who can pass the ball and will always favor the teams with many players in their roles who can pass the ball and choose the right moment to pass to the right person."

- "An important part of the step forward as a coach is the area of having most of the games online and being able to work with a huge database. We have seen companies which select images of players and store them. And if you want to know how many three-pointers a player on a team has made from the right side of the court, you can call up the company and get that information. So the web has a great relevance."
http://ulebcup.com/item/31758

[Bruno]

i just don't see the FIBA teams being willing to expand their seasons to 82 games but i could be wrong.

The NBA can shorten a his regular season to something like 60 games.

82 games season is beyond stupidity.

[GSH]

NBA and Euroleague, Greek league, and Russian league should all just come together and create a mega league. They shall call it the AMCBL. The Association of the Multi-Country Basketball League. Any other half-ass league is welcome to join.


Stern should, ASAP, set up a serious competition between the NBA and the Euro champs. (Think Ryder Cup in golf.)

I think a lot of this bullshit could be put to rest when the world got to see CSKA get humiliated by this season's Celtics. And to really drive the point home, let the Euro runners-up play against the Lakers, Spurs, Pistons, Hornets, etc. People have read far too much into Olympic and other international competition that doesn't really mean that much to our players.

The Euro teams aren't able to lure NBA players without paying them more than they can make in the NBA. So if they are going to field a whole team of NBA-caliber players, they will have to have a payroll of what, 100-120 Million dollars? Even a billionaire has to think about intentionally losing 50-60 Million per year.

Of course, I don't know who you would get to officiate a competition like that.

[VaSpursFan]

The NBA can shorten a his regular season to something like 60 games.

82 games season is beyond stupidity.

ITA. the length of the season is why so many players breakdown and why so many are less than 100% in the playoffs.

i also think the 7 game playoff series are ridiculously stupid too. no playoff series should be more than 5 games....but we know money is the driver behind the long season and playoff schedule.

[Bruno]

http://www.olympiacos.org/uploads/Gallery/7_2008_1/realcms4560357932008723164112.jpg

[Tully365]

Holy shit, that's amazing.

Well, that's the decline of the dollar for you. You see this stuff, Budweiser getting bought by a Belgian/Brazilian brewery company. You'll see it more and more. That's what grotesque levels of cutting taxes while vastly increasing spending will do - it devalues the dollar to great levels - not to mention vast discretionary spending on a senseless war.

David Stern must be shitting his expensive britches about now.

If I'm a young guy, just the prospect of getting paid to play in Europe would get me moving. As someone said upthread, fuck Atlanta. That town sucks.

I agree completely. Generally I like to keep politics out of sports debates, but it's gotten to the point now where it just isn't possible anymore. I can't fault Childress for doing what he's doing. And if he was a businessman, a computer analyst, a nurse, or an electrician and got the chance to live in a really interesting european city and get a hefty pay increase, I don't think many people would criticize him for it. American sports fans will now just have to get used to a situation that euro-fans have been dealing with for decades now-- watching their favorite players leave to chase the bigger payday. And if this trend continues to accelerate, it seems likely that European basketball will catch up with the NBA in terms of talent within the next decade. I imagine that some Euro billionaire is scheming right now to outbid everybody for LeBron. It would be much bigger than Beckham coming to America. Would LeBron go to Europe for a year if someone offered 30 million? 35 mil?

[oligarchy]

ITA. the length of the season is why so many players breakdown and why so many are less than 100% in the playoffs.

i also think the 7 game playoff series are ridiculously stupid too. no playoff series should be more than 5 games....but we know money is the driver behind the long season and playoff schedule.

If the season was shorter, the 7 game playoff series wouldn't be as bad as far as wear an tear. I believe it's still overkill, but wouldn't seem as rigorous. 5, 5, 7, 7 would be okay.

[Tully365]

The NBA can shorten a his regular season to something like 60 games.

82 games season is beyond stupidity.

I talked to a guy from Barcelona recently who is a big hoops fan and he said that is a big topic of discussion among european players. To many Europeans, Americans are people who work incessantly-- long hours, no mid afternoon siestas or breaks, short vacations, etc.-- and they view the NBA in the same way. In Europe, most teams play twice a week. It's a much lighter schedule, which naturally makes the chances of sustaining injuries smaller, too.

[Brutalis]

Haha well it was no mystery Childress was an underachiever. Maybe now he can play at his level and be a star.

[GSH]

Taxes from US Citizens working abroad is subject to an 82,000 tax exemption. The rest can be taxed is US citizen but I was not wrong about Swiss Banks.




No, you are wrong about Swiss banks too. U.S. citizens are required to pay taxes on their income, and failure to do so is a crime - in the U.S. I don't give a fuck what the Swiss position is. You think you can sell drugs here and be immune from prosecution, as long as you put the money into a Swiss account? Not if you get caught. You would be prosecuted for the drugs, AND the tax evasion. (In case you didn't know, "income" from illegal activities is still subject to taxation in the U.S.) And since everyone knows about basketball salaries, getting caught is kind of a no-brainer.

I'm not sure if we extradite over tax evasion, but the first time he came back to the States, he would be arrested. U.S. citizens remain subject to our laws. That's sort of the price we pay for retaining the benefits of being U.S. citizens while living abroad. (And the benefits are formidable.)

Why not do some research on the Chinese tax code, and figure out how much Yao is making, net of taxes. Then go report to some Rockets fans. On a Rockets forum. Or go offer to blow Barry's agent for getting him to sign in Houston. Something useful.

[DROB4EVER]

No, you ignorant asshole. The only way he would not be taxed on that money is if he renounces his American citizenship. And it doesn't matter what bank he decides to put it in, either.

Why don't you find a fucking Chinese forum, and go discuss Yao's health problems or something?

The contract being reported is the money he will earn and keep. The team has also agree to pay all taxes on his earnings so he will clear 7mil pr year.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

NBA needs to eliminate that dum won yere in cowwage rule. Some basketball studs/non academics should have the right to earn a living at 18 & not be admitted to college based on academic skills that are middle school at best. I know. I've tried to instruct furture NBA players who enter major programs with 6th grade reading skills. College for college students, the NBA for kids who have game. Don't mix oil with water!!!

What with that first sentence of yours it's a wonder how they didn't learn anything from you.

[Mr. Body]

The NBA can shorten a his regular season to something like 60 games.

82 games season is beyond stupidity.

That's a lot of revenue lost.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

http://www.olympiacos.org/uploads/Gallery/7_2008_1/realcms4560357932008723164112.jpg

Childress: Yea, what are you gonna do now Atlanta? Bitches...

[Bruno]

That's a lot of revenue lost.

Expanding your local market from 300M of people to 600M of people is a lot of revenue increase.

[hater]

stop dreaming. there is not gonna be any expansion at all. Euro teams will keep getting stronger and NBA teams weaker at this pace.

most likely what will happen is NBA will regularly lose good players to Europe.

[Tully365]

If the season was shorter, the 7 game playoff series wouldn't be as bad as far as wear an tear. I believe it's still overkill, but wouldn't seem as rigorous. 5, 5, 7, 7 would be okay.

Yeah, I agree. I hope the playoffs don't expand anymore. No one wants basketball to turn into hockey, where making the playoffs isn't even an honor. The early 60s Celtics only had to win two series to claim the championship. Now you have to play four series, a minimum of 16 games and more than likely around 25 to win it all. That's almost another 1/3 of a full season.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

What with that first sentence of yours it's a wonder how they didn't learn anything from you.

:lmao

[Mr. Body]

The dollar will return with sound fiscal policies and the Fed taking their foot off the pedal. In the next couple years this should even out, although apparently the dollar is still overpriced. Scary.

[GSH]

The contract being reported is the money he will earn and keep. The team has also agree to pay all taxes on his earnings so he will clear 7mil pr year.

That's a separate issue from what he was arguing. But even what you said doesn't go far enough. If your employer agrees to pay your taxes for you, that money is considered income for you as well.

If, for example, the tax rate was 50% and you need to net $7 Million per year, your employer could not pay the IRS $3.5 Million for you. That's because the $3.5 Million would also be considered income. In order to "gross up" your $7 Million salary, the employer would have to pay the IRS $7 Million in taxes. It would be just like you made $14 Million in income, and the employer sent 50% of it to the IRS for taxes.

The point is, these American players do not simply get to avoid paying U.S. taxes. And "grossing up" their salary is A LOT more expensive than many people think. If a player nets $7 Million, it would cost their Euro team almost $12 Million. Do you know any NBA teams that would pay $12 Million for Childress, even if there was no salary cap?

Like I have said, these Euro teams could easily rack up a team salary of $100-120 Million, if they to try and field a team that could compete in the NBA. Maybe more. Let them play, and pay the lux tax on that amount. The other teams in the league would be happy.

[Tully365]

The dollar will return with sound fiscal policies and the Fed taking their foot off the pedal. In the next couple years this should even out, although apparently the dollar is still overpriced. Scary.

I hope so, but my biggest worry is that with the current state of the economy, what would happen if we faced another hurricane Katrina/9-11/war with Iran type of situation? Scary.

[waly.mg]

The NBA is going to have that problem (In Argentina we have this problem with Scola and Nocedal).

A Young Player from the High Schoool can´t sign a Contract with the NBA, because is younger than the age then you can have to enter the NBA Draft, because he must to play 1 year after the High School.

And now, Imagine a Player like Lebron James with 18 years old. No one team can draft him because is younger, and then Come a European Billonarie and offer this player, a 50 Millions and 3 years contract, or 100 millions and 6 years.

What do you thing that this player is going to do?

Waiting for the NBA and with the rookie scale he´s going to make 5 millions a year, or play in Europe, with 50 Millions in his pocket.

Now, the problem isn´t the Free Agents, the europeans can take away Young Players for a lot of money.

Then, the Rookie scale is going to die, the Minimum age too, the Restricted Free Agents and anybody know, what more

If i´m a european GM , i´m going to go to USA to found young players for the High School, for a Couple of Millions, and the NBA is going to say good bye to this players.

[wisnub]

There will be more NBA good players who will leave NBA for overseas basketball. I see more and more each day NBA good prospects leave US to play international basketball. High School star and NBA prospect draft Brandon Jennings also leave to Italy before even go to Arizona. We experienced it ourselves by watching Splitter ditch our less lucrative offer (I doubt he ever opt out his contract before its due, if he did then he will resign for more money). I know NBA got rules for rookies salaries,but still we got opportunity to buy out his "huge" contract year before that. This year alone already 5 players leave NBA, including: Josh Childress and Carlos Delfino. Marbury also express great interest to play in Italy if the money is right,after hes done in NY. With no salary cap for European team, the limit is how bad European team want NBA stars. I dont think European team got cap restriction,I might be wrong...I just dont believe how rich overseas team really is. If you compare it with soccer its really crazy. I look at soccer and couldnt believe how much Real Madrid spend their payroll. I'm afraid if basketball in overseas reach the point where it as influence to the people as NBA, then we will see more and more and more NBA superstars going overseas since competition wil risen up there. Currently Euro > $US + superstar status + less game + more room to show off = not a bad idea.

[Indazone]

stop dreaming. there is not gonna be any expansion at all. Euro teams will keep getting stronger and NBA teams weaker at this pace.

most likely what will happen is NBA will regularly lose good players to Europe.

This is probably true. It's on Stern. If he had acted sooner this wouldn't have happened. He would have the NBA over there already. This is what you get for not being forward thinking and moving faster. All he had to do was negotiate with the clubs and build some big stadiums over there. Share in the revenue and marketing.

[Mr. Body]

I don't think you can put NBA teams in Europe. The time difference and jet lag would be a killer. Imagine the West Coast teams. What is that, a 10 hour difference from Central Europe?

[Indazone]

I don't think you can put NBA teams in Europe. The time difference and jet lag would be a killer. Imagine the West Coast teams. What is that, a 10 hour difference from Central Europe?

It would have been NBA Europe. They would mainly have to play amongst themselves. Coming over sporadically and then playing in the tournament.

It's going to happen that way anyways just without David Stern.

[Indazone]

No, you are wrong about Swiss banks too. U.S. citizens are required to pay taxes on their income, and failure to do so is a crime - in the U.S. I don't give a fuck what the Swiss position is. You think you can sell drugs here and be immune from prosecution, as long as you put the money into a Swiss account? Not if you get caught. You would be prosecuted for the drugs, AND the tax evasion. (In case you didn't know, "income" from illegal activities is still subject to taxation in the U.S.) And since everyone knows about basketball salaries, getting caught is kind of a no-brainer.

I'm not sure if we extradite over tax evasion, but the first time he came back to the States, he would be arrested. U.S. citizens remain subject to our laws. That's sort of the price we pay for retaining the benefits of being U.S. citizens while living abroad. (And the benefits are formidable.)

Why not do some research on the Chinese tax code, and figure out how much Yao is making, net of taxes. Then go report to some Rockets fans. On a Rockets forum. Or go offer to blow Barry's agent for getting him to sign in Houston. Something useful.

I got better things to do than to argue on an internet forum. You win. You get the golden globe award. :lobt2: Good for you.

"Never argue with an idiot, they'll take you down to their level and then beat you with experience".

[Tully365]

There will be more NBA good players who will leave NBA for overseas basketball. I see more and more each day NBA good prospects leave US to play international basketball. High School star and NBA prospect draft Brandon Jennings also leave to Italy before even go to Arizona. We experienced it ourselves by watching Splitter ditch our less lucrative offer (I doubt he ever opt out his contract before its due, if he did then he will resign for more money). I know NBA got rules for rookies salaries,but still we got opportunity to buy out his "huge" contract year before that. This year alone already 5 players leave NBA, including: Josh Childress and Carlos Delfino. Marbury also express great interest to play in Italy if the money is right,after hes done in NY. With no salary cap for European team, the limit is how bad European team want NBA stars. I dont think European team got cap restriction,I might be wrong...I just dont believe how rich overseas team really is. If you compare it with soccer its really crazy. I look at soccer and couldnt believe how much Real Madrid spend their payroll. I'm afraid if basketball in overseas reach the point where it as influence to the people as NBA, then we will see more and more and more NBA superstars going overseas since competition wil risen up there. Currently Euro > $US + superstar status + less game + more room to show off = not a bad idea.

Marbury is an interesting case. New York could actually use the current situation to their advantage if they could encourage a Euro team to sign him, while getting him to agree to a small buyout. There's got to be some silver linings in this mess, right?

[diego]

yeah, i think merging is just not feasible. they should definitely articulate transfer rules between fiba and NBA, and they should make a world club championship / ryder cup type competition between the continental champs. that will help a lot on both fronts, but it will be really hard to make those transfer rules with the CBA in place.

the greeks are smart, they realized that the hawks have his NBA rights for another 2 years, so they give him a 3 year contract- its extremely unlikely he will leave before the contract is up, and risk getting stuck in atlanta again, but they give him the illusion of freedom with the player options.

also, i cant help but find it funny, the people that are saying that culture shock is going to keep players from crossing the pond... you do realize all the internationals in the US go through the same thing? it will be pretty funny if someone like vince carter got a billion dollar deal in europe, only to shrivel and ride the bench. like all that shit that guys like macijuakas or rigodeau took (i'm pretty sure i've messed up both their names). anyways, i think all this stuff is still 5+ years away, with a lot riding on how jennings and childress fare.

[nkdlunch]

the closest NBA will come to Euroleague is having 1 yearly "friendly" game between the 2 league champions in Asia. like FIFA does.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Person like Marcus Bryant should apologize for how he act to me when I try explain what contracts Greek and Russian teams is offering these players. Always he call me liar and say I make everything up.

[VaSpursFan]

also, i cant help but find it funny, the people that are saying that culture shock is going to keep players from crossing the pond... you do realize all the internationals in the US go through the same thing?

i find this comical too. money overcomes any culture shock in my opinion. moreover, the transition to living a more relaxed european lifestyle ain't that hard and i speak from experience. i spent a year in Germany as an exchange student after graduating high school and before enrolling in college. and, hands down, it was the best experience of my life. i can only imagine what my experience would have been like with money and fame.

i have a friend that attended an inner city public high school, who played overseas for his entire career after dropping out of college and he thoroughly enjoyed every minute of his international career. he waxes nostalgic about the fame, the pretty women, etc. and he played in freaking Iceland and for a few teams in South America.

[samikeyp]

Person like Marcus Bryant should apologize for how he act to me when I try explain what contracts Greek and Russian teams is offering these players. Always he call me liar and say I make everything up.

You have called people names here too...why is it ok for you and not Marcus Bryant?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

why Childress take the $20 million 3 years offer from Olympiakos over the $35 million 5 years offer from Atlanta?

Because like I says many times here and is be accuse be liar reports of salaries in US for Greek players is wrong. They is make much more than these stupid craps reports in US says.

Childress is get like $48 million from Olympiacos, some reports says high as $63 million. I think maybe problem is because US reporters is not able understand Greek.

[samikeyp]

Because like I says many times here and is be accuse be liar reports of salaries in US for Greek players is wrong. They is make much more than these stupid craps reports in US says.

Childress is get like $48 million from Olympiacos. I think maybe problem is because US reporters is not able understand Greek.

So do you hate all Americans or just NBA players?

[ducks]

Because like I says many times here and is be accuse be liar reports of salaries in US for Greek players is wrong. They is make much more than these stupid craps reports in US says.

Childress is get like $48 million from Olympiacos, some reports says high as $63 million. I think maybe problem is because US reporters is not able understand Greek.
do you understand english

[Mister Sinister]

Because like I says many times here and is be accuse be liar reports of salaries in US for Greek players is wrong. They is make much more than these stupid craps reports in US says.

Childress is get like $48 million from Olympiacos, some reports says high as $63 million. I think maybe problem is because US reporters is not able understand Greek.
I think KBP should get a Samuel L. Jackson icon under his avatar.

[samikeyp]

I think KBP should get a Samuel L. Jackson icon under his avatar.

"Do they speak English in What?"
"W-what?"
"English, mother fucker, do you speak it?"
"W-what?"
"Say what again...say what again!"
:lol

[Mister Sinister]

"Do they speak English in What?"
"W-what?"
"English, mother fucker, do you speak it?"
"W-what?"
"Say what again...say what again!"
:lol
Ding-ding-ding! :lol

[samikeyp]

no you understand english

I think that is a little debatable.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

How big would be a similar contract in the NBA?
Delfino 4.5M$ a year is similar top a 9+M$ contract in the NBA... does it mean Childress is given a contract corresponding to 14 M$/year :wow ???

Is like $16 million a year in salary and $21 million if count house, limo, sport car, and boat he is also get from team.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Childress' deal will not be tax free unless he decides to renounce his US citizenship.

You with same idiot posts. This salary is net. team will figure tax and pay for him. How many time it have to be explain to you? Who ever say he will not pay tax? He will pay tax. Which is why he is make $48 million gross, after he pay taxes through Olympiacos accountant is 20 millions of net and exchange rate is always mess up by media of US.

Euros is worth more than the dollars. Is like $63 millions gross with bonuses add in.

[Mister Sinister]

You with same idiot posts. This salary is net. team will figure tax and pay for him. How many time it have to be explain to you? Who ever say he will not pay tax? He will pay tax. Which is why he is make $48 million gross, after he pay taxes through Olympiacos accountant is 20 millions of net and exchange rate is always mess up by media of US.

Euros is worth more than the dollars. Is like $63 millions gross with bonuses add in.
So, how's the food at Big Kahuna Burger?

[Indazone]

I have a question. Do they get to pick their house, limo, brand of sports car and model, and boat? Or do they have to just take what the club offers them?

[samikeyp]

So, how's the food at Big Kahuna Burger?

I hear they serve a tasty burger.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

So, how's the food at Big Kahuna Burger?

:lmao

[Brutalis]

I have a question. Do they get to pick their house, limo, brand of sports car and model, and boat? Or do they have to just take what the club offers them?

Only if he shaves his fro first. I bet Europe is less tolerable on ugly stupid looking haircuts.

[hater]

I bet Europe is less tolerable on ugly stupid looking haircuts.

I beg to differ

http://halfbloghalfamazing.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/gasol-copa-oro.jpg

[hater]

Is like $16 million a year in salary and $21 million if count house, limo, sport car, and boat he is also get from team.

does team provide russian prostitute?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

:lol

[Indazone]

does team provide russian prostitute?

lol he's in Greece so probabaly Greek Ho.

[VaSpursFan]

does team provide russian prostitute?

more than likely it's one of the nice perks :lmao:lmao:lmao

[samikeyp]

does team provide russian prostitute?

No! He get Greek prostitute, Greek whore much cleaner, more better whore.

[/Kill Bill Pana]

:lol

[nkdlunch]

Is like $16 million a year in salary and $21 million if count house, limo, sport car, and boat he is also get from team.

did he sign to be a basketball player or character in Grand Theft Auto???

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

No! He get Greek prostitute, Greek whore much cleaner, more better whore.

[/Kill Bill Pana]

:lol

:lol

[nkdlunch]

No! He get Greek prostitute, Greek whore much cleaner, more better whore.

[/Kill Bill Pana]

:lol

but russian prostitute tight like 8 year old boy. great success!

[samikeyp]

but russian prostitute tight like 8 year old boy. great success!

:lmao

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

but russian prostitute tight like 8 year old boy. great success!

:lmao

[cheguevara]

did he sign to be a basketball player or character in Grand Theft Auto???

LMAO

[Findog]

That's a lot of revenue lost.

If the players want a shorter season, they would have to accept smaller salaries. Othewise their bitching about the length of the season is hypocritical.

[Findog]

Speaking of which, I can understand why a Corey Maggette accepts $10 million a year to go play for a team that already has a glut of swingmen and will be lucky to make the playoffs, as opposed to taking the midlevel to play for a contender. He wants to get paid, and it's his only opportunity to do so.

But why should LeBron take a max salary when he makes more money off endorsements? If LeBron wants to win a title so bad, why doesn't he play for the vet minimum and allow the Cavs to pick up more talent with the money he'd otherwise be getting?

[Indazone]

but russian prostitute tight like 8 year old boy. great success!

Silly nkdlunch, everybody knows all prostitutes over there are boys anyways.:lol

[samikeyp]

But why should LeBron take a max salary when he makes more money off endorsements? If LeBron wants to win a title so bad, why doesn't he play for the vet minimum and allow the Cavs to pick up more talent with the money he'd otherwise be getting?

I agree. Also, with all the negative publicity that athlete's contracts get, think of the PR move it would be for LeBron to say "I will gladly give up more salary to win a title."

[FromWayDowntown]

How can the team "pay" a player's taxes without immediately increasing the amount of his compensation -- he's being compensated, although not directly, by the payment of the taxes -- and increasing the player's tax burden?

Basically, the club has agreed to a deal that will pay Childress a set amount and has obligated itself to keep back a certain part of that salary to cover his tax burden, leaving him with the net. That's very little different than an NBA club keeping back the basic taxes that American (and presumably, Canadian) workers have withheld from their checks. The only difference is that Euro clubs announce salary terms on a net pay basis and American clubs (seemingly) announce salary terms on a gross pay basis.

Am I getting that right?

[Findog]

I agree. Also, with all the negative publicity that athlete's contracts get, think of the PR move it would be for LeBron to say "I will gladly give up more salary to win a title."

It just rings a little hollow when they say "Get me some help." There's only about a tiny handful of guys for whom this applies, that the bulk of their income is from outside sources.

[pad300]

How can the team "pay" a player's taxes without immediately increasing the amount of his compensation -- he's being compensated, although not directly, by the payment of the taxes -- and increasing the player's tax burden?

Basically, the club has agreed to a deal that will pay Childress a set amount and has obligated itself to keep back a certain part of that salary to cover his tax burden, leaving him with the net. That's very little different than an NBA club keeping back the basic taxes that American (and presumably, Canadian) workers have withheld from their checks. The only difference is that Euro clubs announce salary terms on a net pay basis and American clubs (seemingly) announce salary terms on a gross pay basis.

Am I getting that right?

Pretty close. Income in non-US country X is taxed by country X at it's rates. Assuming there is a tax treaty with the US gov't, (for example, the one with Greece, given here, http://www.unclefed.com/ForTaxProfs/Treaties/greece.pdf.), the income that is taxed abroad is not subject to double taxation. In particular, see article XVII in the pdf given above...

[lefty]

With more and more NBA players going to Europe, European players who made it to the NBA will not longer see their career path as a success.:p:

[FromWayDowntown]

Pretty close. Income in non-US country X is taxed by country X at it's rates. Assuming there is a tax treaty with the US gov't, (for example, the one with Greece, given here, http://www.unclefed.com/ForTaxProfs/Treaties/greece.pdf.), the income that is taxed abroad is not subject to double taxation. In particular, see article XVII in the pdf given above...

Sure, but regardless of to whom the tax is paid or how that amount is calculated, the fact is that Childress isn't receiving a gross base salary and then having the club pay his taxes as additional compensation. In reality, he's still paying his own taxes, but the extent of the announced value of his contract is already diminished by the amounts he'll owe in taxes (i.e., the net value of the contract).

[Kibic]

Poor Beno Udrih. He will have to play in NBA next 6 years for $ 33 mio. Only. Over 80 games. While Childress and Boki will play only 40 games. For more money.
Ha, ha, ha ,ha

[Marcus Bryant]

You with same idiot posts. This salary is net. team will figure tax and pay for him. How many time it have to be explain to you? Who ever say he will not pay tax? He will pay tax. Which is why he is make $48 million gross, after he pay taxes through Olympiacos accountant is 20 millions of net and exchange rate is always mess up by media of US.

Euros is worth more than the dollars. Is like $63 millions gross with bonuses add in.

eh, shut your Gyro (http://www.us.kpmg.com/microsite/ies/taa2007/index.htm)

[Obstructed_View]

So, how's the food at Big Kahuna Burger?

http://www.toadking.com/6x9=42/hamburgers.jpg


Man, I always wondered what that image was for. Now I know.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

:lol

[Indazone]

lol boy this thread has gone downhill fast.

[braeden0613]

:tu

it's gonna become a "shitty" league in world standards. kinda like the MLS
Because Josh Childress left? Seriously if the dollar goes back up (the jury is out of that one) this won't be happening as often. Its not like kobe left for maccabi tel aviv or something.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/hawks/stories/2008/07/23/hawks_childress_contract_numbers.html

He's gonna be making $6.7M a year, if he comes back to the NBA he will be a restricted free agent (the Hawks would still be able to match any offer), and there's no buyout clause.

[Indazone]

Because Josh Childress left? Seriously if the dollar goes back up (the jury is out of that one) this won't be happening as often. Its not like kobe left for maccabi tel aviv or something.

It'll matter when stuff like this starts happening again. Oh yeah, it's already starting to happen.

In 1967, the league faced a new external threat with the formation of the American Basketball Association. The leagues engaged in a bidding war. The NBA landed the most important college star of the era, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (then known as Lew Alcindor), who together with Oscar Robertson led the Milwaukee Bucks to a title in his second season, and who later played on five Laker championship teams.

However, the NBA's leading scorer, Rick Barry jumped to the ABA, as did four veteran referees—Norm Drucker, Earl Strom, John Vanak, and Joe Gushue.

[edit] 1970s: The NBA vs. the ABA

The American Basketball Association also succeeded in signing a number of major stars, including Julius Erving, in part because it allowed teams to sign college undergraduates. The NBA expanded rapidly during this period, one purpose being to tie up the most viable cities. From 1966 to 1974, the NBA grew from nine franchises to 18; the New Orleans Jazz (now in Utah) came aboard in 1974. Then, following the 1976 season, the leagues reached a settlement that provided for the addition of four ABA franchises to the NBA, raising the number of franchises in the league at that time to 22. The franchises were the San Antonio Spurs, Denver Nuggets, Indiana Pacers and New York Nets. Some of the biggest stars of this era were Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Rick Barry, Dave Cowens, Julius Erving, Walt Frazier, Artis Gilmore, George Gervin, Dan Issel and Pete Maravich.

[pad300]

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/hawks/stories/2008/07/23/hawks_childress_contract_numbers.html

He's gonna be making $6.7M a year, if he comes back to the NBA he will be a restricted free agent (the Hawks would still be able to match any offer), and there's no buyout clause.

Yep, 6.7M after taxes = 20M/3 years...Also, just like a bunch of people have pointed to MB, the club pays the taxes. No, the IRS isn't gonna go hunt down Mr. Childress.

The effective tax rate in Atlanta is ((33M/5) - 3.4M)/(33M/5) = .485 = 48.5%. I'm guessing Atlanta has state income tax... At that rate, to net 6.7M per year is 13M per year. This is pretty close to an NBA max contract for 3 years. When you add in the side benefits, luxury accommodations, maid service, car and driver, it's probably very close (possibly even better) to an NBA max contract from Childress's perspective. This is overpaying in a big way for Childress, IMO. If they are willing to spend this kind of money for Childress, the rest of the NBA has to start paying attention to Europe.

It should also be noted that the effective Tax rate being paid for Childress is much less than the Atlanta local rate. (32.5M-20M)/(32.5) = 38.5%...

[clubalien]

Because Josh Childress left? Seriously if the dollar goes back up (the jury is out of that one) this won't be happening as often. Its not like kobe left for maccabi tel aviv or something.

I heard tim duncan is looking forward to playing with splitter with the rest of his new Tau teammates

[jag]

The idea of any type of a merger with euro teams seems ridiculous at this point. How many players are going to want to be drafted to play in Russia? Not to mention that these teams are not going to want to be under NBA regulation.
I also don't think the owners would agree to such a deal, imagine the expenses for that type of travel and accommodations. As a current owner there's a lot of money to be lost with that type of a merger.

[Indazone]

If I'm running CSKA, why would I want to be part of the NBA with the Euroleague coming on as strong as it is? Just keep poaching NBA players.

[jag]

If I'm running CSKA, why would I want to be part of the NBA with the Euroleague coming on as strong as it is? Just keep poaching NBA players.

Exactly, what do they stand to gain? The NBA salary cap? I doubt the NBA logo has the slightest bit of significance as far as Russian basketball fans are concerned.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

More than likely is a true world championship under the umbrella of FIBA, with the NBA champion taking on the Euroleague champion.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

The NBA-Euroleague merger is impossible under current conditions. It would be a logistical nightmare for a Western Conference team to travel to Barcelona, nevermind Moscow or Tel-Aviv, and viceversa. Also, the different laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosman_ruling) about players contracts make this very unlikely to happen.

The rumour is that the Euroleague wants to "close" itself like American sports leagues, establishing a defined number of teams that will play the competition every year, no matter their results in the previous season.

So far, teams qualify for the Euroleague based on their performances on their domestic leagues in the previous season. Teams that perform badly even get relegated from the first tier of domestic competition into the second. Think about something like the Heat going to the ABA or the D-League instead of getting a lottery pick because they sucked the previous season. Then they would have to win promotion back into the NBA in that second division.

However, I don't think the Euroleague will become a "restricted" league like the NBA anytime soon. First, there are too many big teams from the same countries and some countries doesn't even have one. Spanish, Greek and Russian teams would be the majority and many countries with basketball tradition wouldn't even be represented because their leagues have been diminished in the past years. Also fans from Spain or Greece who don't support the major clubs wouldn't like the idea, their teams would lose a lot of sponsorship and TV rights money if they are excluded from Euroleague forever. Countries that have a lot of potential for basketball (like the UK or Germany) would miss it because the league was closed even before basketball catched up in there.

I think the current format is what works best. A parallel with the football Champions League. Qualify on a sporting basis, leave it open to anyone, and they could tweak the qualification system to introduce coefficients to seed the early stages. Closing the leagues would mean a lot of potential money lost, because in Europe, interest in basketball is high, but not THAT high. There are many potential markets that are there to be exploited yet. I think that the current system in a few years could work really well if money keeps being invested in basketball and potential markets like Germany, the UK, Scandinavia, Portugal and those countries in Eastern Europe that don't have a great basketball culture yet, like Ukraine, Poland, Romania, etc.

[jag]

More than likely is a true world championship under the umbrella of FIBA, with the NBA champion taking on the Euroleague champion.

Not sure why either FIBA or the NBA would want this. Both sides would have to view themselves as equals to consider this option, or you'll wind up with the greater side(better talent, more money/resources) risking credibility.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yep, 6.7M after taxes = 20M/3 years...Also, just like a bunch of people have pointed to MB, the club pays the taxes. No, the IRS isn't gonna go hunt down Mr. Childress.

The effective tax rate in Atlanta is ((33M/5) - 3.4M)/(33M/5) = .485 = 48.5%. I'm guessing Atlanta has state income tax... At that rate, to net 6.7M per year is 13M per year. This is pretty close to an NBA max contract for 3 years. When you add in the side benefits, luxury accommodations, maid service, car and driver, it's probably very close (possibly even better) to an NBA max contract from Childress's perspective. This is overpaying in a big way for Childress, IMO. If they are willing to spend this kind of money for Childress, the rest of the NBA has to start paying attention to Europe.

It should also be noted that the effective Tax rate being paid for Childress is much less than the Atlanta local rate. (32.5M-20M)/(32.5) = 38.5%...

The club doesn't "pay the taxes." It can certainly add enough to the salary to arrive at a desired after-tax salary for the player. But payments to the player or on the player's behalf to pay the taxes are considered part of the player's gross income.

[FromWayDowntown]

The club doesn't "pay the taxes." It can certainly add enough to the salary to arrive at a desired after-tax salary for the player. But payments to the player or on the player's behalf to pay the taxes are considered part of the player's gross income.

Exactly. Again, the notion of the club paying the taxes is a euphamism for announcing a net salary figure.

[wildbill2u]

well i never said it's a good thing in my post to begin with... but this kind of moves will force the NBA to:

1) Lower the minimum age of a player to be draft eligible
2) Change the rookie minimum salary scale
3) change the draft system and the player rights acquisition
4) re consider the globalization of the NBA as a good thing for the league

the fun is about to start

The NBA is now in a bidding war with teams worldwide. With the ability to pay more than NBA minimums for rookies and other contract limitations such as the pay cap, more European players will stay with their teams and those leagues will be more attractive to many US players.

Anyone who thinks all good players value playing in the prestigious NBA over the almighty dollar...er...Euro...has to reconsider the reality of basketball as a business where players have limited careers and need to make as much as they can.

[exstatic]

This is more than likely a one year deal for him.

If he comes back after one year he has to pay taxes and the Hawks still own him. The article says that they have his rights for two years. He pays no taxes if he stays two years. Sounds like a two year deal, minimum.

[exstatic]

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/hawks/stories/2008/07/23/hawks_childress_contract_numbers.html

He's gonna be making $6.7M a year, if he comes back to the NBA he will be a restricted free agent (the Hawks would still be able to match any offer), and there's no buyout clause.

The article said that after two years, the Hawks lose their rights.

[oligarchy]

If he comes back after one year he has to pay taxes and the Hawks still own him. The article says that they have his rights for two years. He pays no taxes if he stays two years. Sounds like a two year deal, minimum.

Not sure what article you are reading, but he pays taxes no matter the number of years he plays.


The article said that after two years, the Hawks lose their rights.


Childress also has an annual opt-out clause in the contract that will allow him to weigh his NBA options, as a restricted free agent provided the Hawks tender a qualifying offer to him, every summer.

Meaning, if he plays 3 years and tries to come back to the NBA, as long as each of those three years the Hawks tendered him the qualifying offer, his rights belong to the Hawks.

[ShoogarBear]

From an economic standpoint, how many players realistically can European teams pay like this? How is the revenue going to be generated to justify these payouts, especially when they're playing many fewer games? Is Josh Childress going to pack the house and allow them to raise ticket prices? Are they banking on eventually getting bigger TV contracts?

It's interesting and will definitely have ramifications, but I don't see how a giant wave of these can be supported.

[exstatic]

The Hawks retain Childress's NBA rights for at least two years, but they lose one of the league's best and most efficient sixth men without immediate compensation. The Hawks, per the rules of restricted free agency, had the right to match any competing offers from NBA teams.
This was from the original post article. Doesn't really matter. He has them over a barrel. After all, we own Splitter's rights, correct? Doesn't mean much if he's playing in Europe. Childress has the leverage to force a S&T to an NBA team on his short list.

The thing about the taxes was from one of the posters who is currently working out of country, not from the article. He said that if you work outside the US for a two year period, you're not taxed. I can't remember what page it's on.

[Indazone]

somavabiotch!!! if this happens I will really be pissed off. Freaking Landry better stay.

HOUSTON -- The agent for restricted free agent forward Carl Landry told FOX 26 Sports Wednesday playing outside the NBA may become an option for his client.

Landry played his rookie year with the Houston Rockets during the 2007-2008 season.

The Atlanta Hawks lost restricted free agent guard Josh Childress to the Greek club Olympiakos Wednesday. Like Childress, Landry is a restricted free agent. The Hawks could match any offer Childress gets from an NBA club but that option doesn't exist for teams outside the NBA.

Landry and the Rockets are in a similar situation.

"Carl would entertain all serious offers," said Buddy Baker, Landry's agent. "There is serious interest in Carl by both other NBA teams and internationally."

Landry averaged 8.1 points and 4.9 rebounds a game during his first year in the NBA.

"Carl and his agent are doing what they think is best for him and if that includes exploring Europe that is their right to do that," said Daryl Morey, Houston Rockets General Manager.

"We continue to want Carl as a Rocket. We have a difference of opinion on the next steps to get him re-signed, but we have not changed our desire to see him return."

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages/Sports/Detail?contentId=7049873&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=6.1.1

[VaSpursFan]

somavabiotch!!! if this happens I will really be pissed off. Freaking Landry better stay.

HOUSTON -- The agent for restricted free agent forward Carl Landry told FOX 26 Sports Wednesday playing outside the NBA may become an option for his client.

Landry played his rookie year with the Houston Rockets during the 2007-2008 season.

The Atlanta Hawks lost restricted free agent guard Josh Childress to the Greek club Olympiakos Wednesday. Like Childress, Landry is a restricted free agent. The Hawks could match any offer Childress gets from an NBA club but that option doesn't exist for teams outside the NBA.

Landry and the Rockets are in a similar situation.

"Carl would entertain all serious offers," said Buddy Baker, Landry's agent. "There is serious interest in Carl by both other NBA teams and internationally."

Landry averaged 8.1 points and 4.9 rebounds a game during his first year in the NBA.

"Carl and his agent are doing what they think is best for him and if that includes exploring Europe that is their right to do that," said Daryl Morey, Houston Rockets General Manager.

"We continue to want Carl as a Rocket. We have a difference of opinion on the next steps to get him re-signed, but we have not changed our desire to see him return."

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages/Sports/Detail?contentId=7049873&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=6.1.1

wow...the snowball is picking up speed as it rolls down hill:downspin:

[Sway]

americans earning money abroad for more than 2 years DO NOT have to pay income taxes. i work for an american company here and for many americans living here it's a great move to come a couple of years.. they are buying houses and new cars with the tax saving money... they go back to the US just a lil after the time frame on purpose...

Im going to have to raise the BS flag on this. Ive lived abroad 8+ years and know this is not the case.

Now if you go to a combat zone (Iraq or Afganistan) the first 80k you make is tax free but you have to pay taxes after that.

[jag]

From an economic standpoint, how many players realistically can European teams pay like this? How is the revenue going to be generated to justify these payouts, especially when they're playing many fewer games? Is Josh Childress going to pack the house and allow them to raise ticket prices? Are they banking on eventually getting bigger TV contracts?

It's interesting and will definitely have ramifications, but I don't see how a giant wave of these can be supported.

Olympiacos CFP is a multisport club, much like CSKA and others, with quite a bit of money to throw around. These clubs are pulling revenues from all over the place as well as getting financial assistance from the government for incentives. Olympiacos is also owned by O Proedrosan, one of, if not THE richest man in Greece.

These clubs own soccer teams as well, that pay huge dollars to foreign stars...i guess they're just now starting to develop an interest to invest in [basketball] foreign stars...it also helps that this interest is obviously now mutual.

[Indazone]

The first 80 K is tax free for any Americans working abroad whether or not they are in a war zone. But if the European clubs pay the taxes for the BBall player, I guess they don't have to worry about it. It's like that FICA tax you see on your W2's. There's a withholding for that amount that the company takes out of your paycheck to pay the IRS. So I guess if the Club over there wanted to pay that tax for you, then what the heck? There are tax treaties between countries. The point is, part of your income might go to the US, and part might go to the foreign country because you live there, produce goods for that country, and enjoy the services of that country. The taxes are written so that you don't get double taxed once in the foreign country and again in the USA...how stupid would that be?

[Indazone]

Landry..damn! I hope they are just using the European ploy as leverage to get the full MLE from the Rockets. But I have the feeling that if Landry gets the full MLE we are going to say goodbye to Deke :(

[ShoogarBear]

Olympiacos CFP is a multisport club, much like CSKA and others, with quite a bit of money to throw around. These clubs are pulling revenues from all over the place as well as getting financial assistance from the government for incentives. Olympiacos is also owned by O Proedrosan, one of, if not THE richest man in Greece.

These clubs own soccer teams as well, that pay huge dollars to foreign stars...i guess they're just now starting to develop an interest to invest in [basketball] foreign stars...it also helps that this interest is obviously now mutual.

So are these guys just writing off losses on hoops, or do the basketball teams make money on their own? Would one of them, say, seriously make a run at LeBron in 2010?

[Indazone]

If Lebron or Kobe leaves the Euroleague it would be equivalent to Rick Barry leaving the NBA back in the day to join the fledgling ABA.

[mystargtr34]

Wheres Kill Bill to correct us that it was actually a 3 year $120 million deal.

[tlongII]

NBA Forum

[jag]

So are these guys just writing off losses on hoops, or do the basketball teams make money on their own? Would one of them, say, seriously make a run at LeBron in 2010?

It's all about an investment. Childress might not bring home huge bucks, and sure they may take a loss, but does that move make other NBA players see this as a possibility? More than likely, yes. Basketball makes money, as does soccer, as does volleyball, as does what ever one of the 12 or so teams that are a part of this club, so maybe they see basketball as something they would like to start investing big money in.

Keep in mind that int. soccer stars are making what NBA stars make. To lure Raul away from Real Madrid, Olympiacos ended up paying a around $17 mill for 4 years (keep in mind that soccer rosters can be double what NBA rosters are - more big money to more guys). They definitely have the money, it's just about whether or not to invest, and especially mutual interest.

Why wouldn't an int. club make a run at a Lebron type of player? It's all about what the NBA players are willing to do for the $...or the €.

[Indazone]

It's basically what the Galaxy did to get David Beckham. I mean lets get real. USA Soccer sucks compared to European Soccer. But he got big bucks and came over here to play. Same situation in reverse to go over there to play.

[lefty]

Europe offers more than vacation to NBA players

By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports





LAS VEGAS – The prospects of an NBA superstar making a leap of faith and fortune to the burgeoning European basketball market isn’t close, but it no longer seems such an outrageous possibility. As models for the perfect pioneer go, Jason Kidd does believe that his talents at 35 years old are suited to the Euro game, where size, strength and smarts are a tonic for declining speed and explosiveness.


Yes, Kidd is relentlessly committed to chasing an NBA title with Dirk Nowitzki and the Dallas Mavericks. Still, nothing is forever for him at 35. When delivered a premise about the possibility of someday following the Atlanta Hawks’ Josh Childress to Europe, Kidd confessed that no longer is it possible to consider your future in a context limited to the NBA.




“In the next four or five years, could I end up playing over there?” Kidd wondered. “Hey, why wouldn’t I play in Italy or somewhere (else)? That might be a great experience.

“It’s a legitimate option now with Childress going over there.”

As he prepares for the Beijing Olympics with Team USA, Kidd is under contract with Dallas through next season. He has his eyes on an extension past 2008-09, but who knows anymore?


“Why not?” Kidd said. “We saw the Euro players coming here, and now it’s kind of flip-flopping.”

Through the years, a lot of terrific NBA players left for Europe in the twilight of their careers. Some rookies used it as leverage in contract disputes. Even a high school player, Brandon Jennings, signed with Virtus Roma this month. Now, the next step has come with a young American-born NBA sixth man, Childress, choosing Olympiakos of Greece for three years and $20 million. He passed on a comparable contract with the Atlanta Hawks, as much of a statement on the growing worth of European franchises as it was an indictment of a shoddy Atlanta operation.


Make no mistake: A threshold has been crossed in the sport. Suddenly, Europe is evolving into a true rival in free agency.


Childress is no superstar, but he was a desired restricted free agent in the NBA. As the American dollar shrinks to the Euro and European operations increase in prestige and resources, so starts the irreversible wave of change.


“David Stern and the NBA have been promoting the globalization of the sport for years,” agent Lon Babby said by phone on Wednesday. “It’s only natural it would begin to flow both ways. It’s something players and agents now have to look at.”

Babby represents Childress, and never hesitated to push his client toward the favorable financial arrangements of the Euroleague. Some insist this is such a risky move for a young NBA player, but is it that much more of a gamble to leave one of these forsaken NBA franchises with such horrible ownership, such suspect direction and commitment?

When Billy Knight resigned as Hawks GM this spring, ownership was unprepared to conduct a search. Atlanta floundered around, unsure of whom to recruit, who should be on their list. One owner called Sacramento’s GM Geoff Petrie, and Petrie quickly rejected them.


Atlanta should have made well-regarded Cleveland assistant GM Chris Grant a more credible offer, but it was determined to do everything on the cheap. In the end, the Hawks hired unemployed journeyman Rick Sund. Give Sund this: The opening salvo on his watch – losing Childress to Greece – is a disaster for the Hawks.


As long as franchises like Atlanta and Memphis have such poor ownership, such little commitment and competency, no one should be surprised that players like Childress and Juan Carlos Navarro, who recently signed a reported five-year, $20 million contract with FC Barcelona, will find Europe a suitable destination.


So, how long until those rich franchises in Russia, Spain and Greece are players for the biggest stars in the sport?

Well, Miami’s Dwyane Wade laughed as he delivered a baseline bid to leave the NBA in the summer of 2010. “Thirty million a season, non-taxable?” Wade said. “I might have to think about it.”

The NBA’s salary cap and the declining American dollar leaves open the possibility that a European team eventually will be able to make the kind of Monopoly money bid to lure one of the NBA’s superstars. It won’t be this year. Nor next. The summer of 2010, when Wade, LeBron James and Chris Bosh could be available, is too soon also. What if Europe decides that it doesn’t need to pay outlandish entrance fees to get teams in Stern’s league and it figures out a way to pool its resources to make itself more of a competitor?


However it goes, there will be a better and better parade of players leaving the NBA for Europe, and better Euros who never feel the need to come here.


“With the money being said that guys can get over there, it’s unbelievable,” Wade said. Not only do you have international players coming to America, you’ve got American players going international. And you’ve got big-time players doing it now. It’s interesting.


“If they offer me $40 million a year and no taxes, I might have to go over there. I’ll have to see you guys later.”

For now, Dwyane Wade was laughing. For how long, though?

[Marcus Bryant]

So the largest contract in Euroleague history is 3 years, $30 million? And it went to Josh Childress?

Oh no.

[Marcus Bryant]

This was from the original post article. Doesn't really matter. He has them over a barrel. After all, we own Splitter's rights, correct? Doesn't mean much if he's playing in Europe. Childress has the leverage to force a S&T to an NBA team on his short list.

The thing about the taxes was from one of the posters who is currently working out of country, not from the article. He said that if you work outside the US for a two year period, you're not taxed. I can't remember what page it's on.

It doesn't matter how long he stays.

[iggypop123]

can anyone confirm this but didnt this team first offer that same deal to loul deng and got shot down so they went to childress. if this had been deng wow the nba would be in trouble

[Indazone]

can anyone confirm this but didnt this team first offer that same deal to loul deng and got shot down so they went to childress. if this had been deng wow the nba would be in trouble


Deng has two weeks to get his contract straight. KillBill said that Pana has made an offer to Luol Deng. Anything is possible at this point.

[pad300]

Now, the next step has come with a young American-born NBA sixth man, Childress, choosing Olympiakos of Greece for three years and $20 million. He passed on a comparable contract with the Atlanta Hawks

And Wojnarowski prove that he can't do basic math. See the analysis of the contract I did earlier. What Olympiakos offered is close to an NBA max contract for 3 years...

[Slo spurs fan]

So the largest contract in Euroleague history is 3 years, $30 million? And it went to Josh Childress?

Oh no.

Don´t worry, it is just a beginning. Did any of NBA teams ever paid 50-70mio Euros to another club just to get rights for ONE player? Look at the offers for players in soccer Euroleague. I know there is not (jet) the same amount of money invested in basketball, but owners of European clubs have money. A lot of it actually. It is just a matter of time and progress of Euroleague and you will see some NBA superstars packing their bags for "vacation" in Europe.

[raspsa]

I think its great for European basketball, for the players.. maybe the NBA feels threatened but I see this move being positive all around. So what if top US player go to Europe.. just fine with me. It will allow oppotunities for new stars to be discovered. It will raise the standard of European competition. Everyone should welcome this.

[hater]

From an economic standpoint, how many players realistically can European teams pay like this? How is the revenue going to be generated to justify these payouts, especially when they're playing many fewer games? Is Josh Childress going to pack the house and allow them to raise ticket prices? Are they banking on eventually getting bigger TV contracts?

It's interesting and will definitely have ramifications, but I don't see how a giant wave of these can be supported.

oh man u have no idea. Euroclubs have tons of money. Actually in Europe a club has a basketball team AND a soccer team and pay millions to players.

if basketball draws a bit more interest in Europe, it's game over for NBA.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

NBA Forum

Too bad.

[ceds]

Can somone tell me the gross ammount per year childress will be making?

In usd..

[oligarchy]

It's all about an investment. Childress might not bring home huge bucks, and sure they may take a loss, but does that move make other NBA players see this as a possibility? More than likely, yes. Basketball makes money, as does soccer, as does volleyball, as does what ever one of the 12 or so teams that are a part of this club, so maybe they see basketball as something they would like to start investing big money in.

Keep in mind that int. soccer stars are making what NBA stars make. To lure Raul away from Real Madrid, Olympiacos ended up paying a around $17 mill for 4 years (keep in mind that soccer rosters can be double what NBA rosters are - more big money to more guys). They definitely have the money, it's just about whether or not to invest, and especially mutual interest.

Why wouldn't an int. club make a run at a Lebron type of player? It's all about what the NBA players are willing to do for the $...or the €.

Also, keep in mind that they don't have to make a profit at this point. Euroleague basketball has grown tremendously, and if they can work out deals that it isn't just a one and done invitation, then they can invest heavily in arenas, etc. Many companies operate in the red during early growth periods in order to maximize profits at later time. For example, the UFC, when bought by the Fertita brothers (owners of numerous casinos) operated in the red for nearly 5 years. Now they are making huge profits and only increasing as the fan-base continues to grow. The scenario could play the same.

While Childress isn't the biggest signing, it COULD be a start to something. Then again, it could be nothing. He could return next year and you may not hear about another NBA signing for years. You have to think though, people don't just join the NBA because it's the greatest organization ever. They join because they want to be rich. Plain and simple. The ABA was a perfect example of people choosing money over the NBA. If, and it may be a stretch, they decide to make a run at some of the biggest names, it would be huge. What's the likelihood? The likelihood is dependent on the growth of the Euroleague market and how they revamp their invitation system. It also may not be dependent on that. They may want the biggest names to explode the growth. Hell, sign Lebron James to a ridiculous contract he cant refuse. That's a way to jumpstart attendence and viewership and tons of other deals.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Can somone tell me the gross ammount per year childress will be making?

In usd..

Some report says like $16 million US.

[waly.mg]

Look at this Numbers:


Argentina
Lionel Messi (Soccer: Barcelona): 11,5 Millions dollars
Carlos Delfino: 10 Millions
Manu Ginobili. 9,9 Millions

Lionel Messi buyout is ....... 150.000.000 Dollars
Sergio Aguero Buyout is 55.000.000 Euros
The Real Madrid Offered 100.000.000 Euros to Manchester United for Cristiano Ronaldo, and this numbers don´t include Ronaldo´s Contract, something like 10.000.000 Euros a year
The Chelsea Offered 150.000.000 Euros for Kaka (235 Million dollars)

[Obstructed_View]

So the talent level is so even between the NBA and overseas that Jason Kidd will be playing there when he's 40. :lol

[Slo spurs fan]

So the talent level is so even between the NBA and overseas that Jason Kidd will be playing there when he's 40. :lol

You better ask yourself will anyone (top Euro teams) really sign him at 40?:nope

[urunobili]

You better ask yourself will anyone (top Euro teams) really sign him at 40?:nope

well... B division teams attendance would rise dramatically... even to go and see him at 40... price to go to basketball game it's lower than going to the Zoo anyhow... :devil

[Indazone]

Kidd will be able to play over there and so will Horry if he wants to. Hell for that matter Scottie Pippen. They can go play for some minor league club for $400,000 a year. Better than nothing. Either that or go down the Dennis Rodman route and play semi-pro ball for Los Angeles. LOL

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Childress and agent state in Greece salary is equal to $53 million gross NBA contract for 3 years. So like $17.7 million NBA contract per season.

[Marcus Bryant]

Childress and agent state in Greece salary is equal to $53 million gross NBA contract for 3 years. So like $17.7 million NBA contract per season.

Damn. He's not good enough to get the $73 millions deal.