Trading from NBA to Euroleague

[pad300]

In TrueHoop,
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-33-87/Thinking-Outside-the-Player-Movement-Box.html


As I was contemplating that, I learned a shocking piece of news: There apparently has been at least one trade between an NBA team and a European team. John Hollinger somehow remembered this, and I was able to find some details. (More, hopefully, to come.) In 1988, the Utah Jazz apparently traded an overweight Mel Turpin to the Spanish team in Zaragoza for Jose Ortiz.

So it's possible to trade players to european teams. Do you think we could trade Bonner for Javtokas?

[thispego]

Cbf?!

[ChumpDumper]

Trade or some kind of mutual buyout that looked like a trade?

All the contracts are made under the umbrella of FIBA, so it might be possible in that respect -- I just don't see the players' union letting that their members being sent to Europe without a choice.

[pad300]

Trade or some kind of mutual buyout that looked like a trade?

All the contracts are made under the umbrella of FIBA, so it might be possible in that respect -- I just don't see the players' union letting that their members being sent to Europe without a choice.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure all parties had to agree. Still, think we can get Bonner to agree to go to Russia? I think the salaries are actually pretty close, after all the tax and exchange rate shennanigans...

[I. Hustle]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure all parties had to agree. Still, think we can get Bonner to agree to go to Russia? I think the salaries are actually pretty close, after all the tax and exchange rate shennanigans...

Plus he can get around without anyone knowing who he is just like in Toronto :lol

[tav1]

Ship Bonner and Oberto to Tau for Splitter...:p:

[Gino2882]

Rather positive this is not legal. How could it be? Even if all parties agreed it would be skirting around the CBA.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Trade or some kind of mutual buyout that looked like a trade?

All the contracts are made under the umbrella of FIBA, so it might be possible in that respect -- I just don't see the players' union letting that their members being sent to Europe without a choice.



This is wrong. FIBA has nothing to do with this.

[ChumpDumper]

Sure it does.

Ask the Greek media.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Sure it does.

Ask the Greek media.

FIBA do not have any say in contracts in Europe.

[remingtonbo2001]

FIBA do not have any say in contracts in Europe.

Could you please provide a lengthy explanation KBP?

[ChumpDumper]

FIBA do not have any say in contracts in Europe.Except that it is the governing body of pretty much any significant organized basketball on the planet.

Other than that, you are as accurate as any Greek basketball report I have ever read.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Except that it is the governing body of pretty much any significant organized basketball on the planet.

Other than that, you are as accurate as any Greek basketball report I have ever read.

What do FIBA have say in player contracts? I never hear FIBA have control of this.

[ChumpDumper]

Then why can't Tim Duncan sign with a Greek team for twelve zillion dollars right now?

Why does it matter if any player is under contract anywhere?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Then why can't Tim Duncan sign with a Greek team for twelve zillion dollars right now?

Why does it matter if any player is under contract anywhere?

FIBA have rules I think against NBA player sign contract in Europe if he still have contract in NBA. FIBA have no say in how contracts is work in Europe though.

[ChumpDumper]

Then why couldn't the Spurs just sign Scola when they wanted to?

And why would FIBA have rules for the NBA but not for European leagues?

[Gino2882]

Then why couldn't the Spurs just sign Scola when they wanted to?

And why would FIBA have rules for the NBA but not for European leagues?

I may be wrong, but wasn't the Scola problem directly with TAU?

[oligarchy]

FIBA has nothing to do with Euroleague. ULEB controls the Euroleague and there is an established agreement between them and the NBA.

FIBA is in charge of things like national team competitions, which has nothing to do with the contracts of Euroleague or NBA players.

[ChumpDumper]

FIBA has nothing to do with Euroleague. ULEB controls the Euroleague and there is an established agreement between them and the NBA.So why can't a team that isn't in Euroleague or the ULEB sign Tim Duncan for 12 zillion dollars?

All those teams are in leagues that are members of their national federations. They are always part of those federations whether they are in ULEB competitions or not.

Maybe there is some organization to which all these national federations belong.

What could that organization possibly be?

Baffling.

[oligarchy]

So why can't a team that isn't in Euroleague or the ULEB sign Tim Duncan for 12 zillion dollars?

All those teams are in leagues that are members of their national federations. They are always part of those federations whether they are in ULEB competitions or not.

Maybe there is some organization to which all these national federations belong.

What could that organization possibly be?

Baffling.

Who said they can't? You? FIBA? If you think some minor league club is going to try to sign Duncan for 12 zillion dollars is as laughable as your attempt at a sardonic response.

[ChumpDumper]

Who said they can't? You?Yes, because....
FIBA?That.

[oligarchy]

Yes, because....That.

FIBA controls all. That's right.

[ChumpDumper]

FIBA controls all. That's right.The rules that the member federations agreed to when they joined FIBA control all. That's right.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

FIBA has nothing to do with Euroleague. ULEB controls the Euroleague and there is an established agreement between them and the NBA.

FIBA is in charge of things like national team competitions, which has nothing to do with the contracts of Euroleague or NBA players.

Yes. I not understand why he think FIBA control contracts?

[Hemotivo]

chump is right

[Hemotivo]

about the fiba approval
here's an old article
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20070816/ai_n19470834

The contract must now be approved by FIBA and the NBA, a process that could take up to a week, said O'Connor, who seems to expect no difficulties.

Because the contract must still be cleared by FIBA and ultimately the NBA, O'Connor declined to discuss Fesenko Wednesday other than to confirm that he had signed.

[ShoogarBear]

Then why can't Tim Duncan sign with a Greek team for twelve zillion dollars right now?

Because there's no such thing as a zillion.

[Hemotivo]

:lol

[ChumpDumper]

Because there's no such thing as a zillion.FTW

[ChumpDumper]

about the fiba approval
here's an old article
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20070816/ai_n19470834

Thanks.

And to the others, apologies accepted.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Thanks.

And to the others, apologies accepted.

I say in other post I believe there is rule about player under contract. I not think FIBA have any control over how contracts are in Europe though. if player is free agent team can do whatever contract they want. FIBA have no say in this.

[anakha]

Another perspective on this matter:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:fjJBJAZsOZgJ:www.fiba.com/downloads/v3_expe/agen/baumann_inter.pdf+uleb+fiba+player+contracts&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

If i understand the article correctly,it says that the ULEB and FIBA Europe have agreed on the implementation of FIBA Players' Agents Regulations (which asserts that only FIBA-approved agents may work out deals involving international transfers of players) and the concept of the FIBA Arbitral Tri-bunal (FIBA regulatory board for settlement of contract disputes involving international players).

That pretty much means that FIBA still has a say in such trade matters, doesn't it?

[ChumpDumper]

I say in other post I believe there is rule about player under contract. I not think FIBA have any control over how contracts are in Europe though. if player is free agent team can do whatever contract they want. FIBA have no say in this.Of course a free agent can go anywhere he wants.

That's why they call them free agents.

That's not the issue here.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Another perspective on this matter:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:fjJBJAZsOZgJ:www.fiba.com/downloads/v3_expe/agen/baumann_inter.pdf+uleb+fiba+player+contracts&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

If i understand the article correctly,it says that the ULEB and FIBA Europe have agreed on the implementation of FIBA Players' Agents Regulations (which asserts that only FIBA-approved agents may work out deals involving international transfers of players) and the concept of the FIBA Arbitral Tri-bunal (FIBA regulatory board for settlement of contract disputes involving international players).

That pretty much means that FIBA still has a say in such trade matters, doesn't it?

I think two different issues. FIBA approve contract or agent just like NBA. But is no set rules for Euroleague contract. Like NBA have all the rules from CBA. Not exist in Euro basketball. I believe this is what Chumpdumper mean when he ask why team of Europe not mess with Duncan.

if this is not what he mean I not understand what he is talk about.

[ChumpDumper]

I think two different issues. FIBA approve contract or agent just like NBA. But is no set rules for Euroleague contract. Like NBA have all the rules from CBA. Not exist in Euro basketball.This is not what I mean.

[anakha]

I think two different issues. FIBA approve contract or agent just like NBA. But is no set rules for Euroleague contract. Like NBA have all the rules from CBA. Not exist in Euro basketball. I believe this is what Chumpdumper mean when he ask why team of Europe not mess with Duncan.

if this is not what he mean I not understand what he is talk about.

If my understanding is correct, ULEB player contracts are all considered professional basketball player contracts, and thus, using the article I linked to, must be managed by FIBA-approved agents and may be subject to arbitration by the FIBA tribunal.

[ChumpDumper]

If my understanding is correct, ULEB player contracts are all considered professional basketball player contracts, and thus, using the article I linked to, must be managed by FIBA-approved agents and may be subject to arbitration by the FIBA tribunal.If you think about it, all those individual teams are (and always are) as a member of their respective national basketball federations whether they are participating in ULEB competitions or not -- just as the NBA is a member of USA Basketball. In turn, all those national federations are members of FIBA, and as part of their agreement to be in FIBA, they respect the contracts that are made by member leagues of each national federation.

[oligarchy]

Not all teams are under FIBAs control.

[ChumpDumper]

Not all teams are under FIBAs control.List them.

In the US, the ABA is not a member of USA Basketball and therefore players can leave ABA teams for the D-League and there's not much the ABA can do about it. There could be severe ramifications if they tried to pull that with a CBA player though.

[oligarchy]

If you think about it, all those individual teams are (and always are) as a member of their respective national basketball federations whether they are participating in ULEB competitions or not -- just as the NBA is a member of USA Basketball. In turn, all those national federations are members of FIBA, and as part of their agreement to be in FIBA, they respect the contracts that are made by member leagues of each national federation.

FIBA approves all NBA contracts?

[anakha]

FIBA approves all NBA contracts?

At least in this case, they do:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20070816/ai_n19470834



It's been a long process involving the Jazz, Fesenko and his agent, the NBA and Fesenko's Ukrainian team and FIBA.

The Jazz had to first decide if they wanted to work with him this year or leave him in Ukraine for another year of seasoning.

After they made the decision that they wanted him now -- obviously helped by Fesenko's promising Revue showing which Kevin O'Connor, senior vice president of basketball operations, said at the time was "a little bit of a surprise how far along he was" -- the Jazz and Levien negotiated to buy out Fesenko's Ukrainian-team contract for $500,000 plus other considerations. That process also involved the NBA.

Since Fesenko signed his contract Wednesday, the Jazz will have the option of keeping Fesenko on their roster or sending him to their NBA Development League team, the Orem Flash, for all or part of the next season.

The contract must now be approved by FIBA and the NBA, a process that could take up to a week, said O'Connor, who seems to expect no difficulties.

[ChumpDumper]

FIBA approves all NBA contracts?The only thing they really check for is if the player isn't already under contract with another league that is by whatever relation also a member of FIBA. In Fesenko's case, they had to make sure he was completely freed from his Ukrainian contract.

[oligarchy]

At least in this case, they do:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20070816/ai_n19470834

Now find where FIBA approved any non-international player.

[ChumpDumper]

Where's the list of teams that aren't somehow a part of FIBA?

[anakha]

Now find where FIBA approved any non-international player.

Considering that the thread idea was centered around international transfers of players, I'm not sure where you're going here.

[oligarchy]

Where's the list of teams that aren't somehow a part of FIBA?

Oh I got you. Every team in the world is controlled by FIBA.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh I got you. Every team in the world is controlled by FIBA."Controlled" is a poor word choice, but the teams that matter (non-ABA types) have agreed to its basic rules regarding contracts and player movement.

[oligarchy]

"Controlled" is a poor word choice, but the teams that matter (non-ABA types) have agreed to its basic rules regarding contracts and player movement.

Nope. Every team.

[ChumpDumper]

Nope. Every team.Nope. I just gave you examples.

Please list your examples.

[oligarchy]

Nope. I just gave you examples.

Please list your examples.

I can't. Every team is controlled by FIBA.

[ChumpDumper]

I can't. Every team is controlled by FIBA.Obviously not every team is since I gave an example, but I can't think of one from the leagues the NBA is now competing with for some players since they are all members of their national basketball federations which in turn are part of FIBA.

[oligarchy]

Obviously not every team is since I gave an example, but I can't think of one from the leagues the NBA is now competing with for some players since they are all members of their national basketball federations which in turn are part of FIBA.

So, why wouldn't an ABA team not be under FIBA control?

[ChumpDumper]

So, why wouldn't an ABA team not be under FIBA control?Because the ABA never applied for membership in USA Basketball.

[oligarchy]

Because the ABA never applied for membership in USA Basketball.

And what about CBA?

[ChumpDumper]

And what about CBA?The Continental Basketball Association is a member.

[SequSpur]

Ship Bonner and Oberto to Tau for Splitter...:p:

are you related to Ducks?

[oligarchy]

The Continental Basketball Association is a member.

And you're saying that each EL team is a member?

[ShoogarBear]

are you related to Ducks?

Why are you not in the other thread?

[ChumpDumper]

And you're saying that each EL team is a member?I can't think of one that isn't by some extension a member of its own country's national basketball federation.

[SequSpur]

Why are you not in the other thread?

I said what I needed to say, so now I am surfing, plus Buddy Holly is stalking me again trying to get a rise out of me. Ain't going to happen.

:)

[oligarchy]

I can't think of one that isn't by some extension a member of its own country's national basketball federation.

So, how wouldn't the same apply to ABA or IBA, if by extension its own country is a national basketball federation? or could it be that one or more of the EL teams don't fall under the same regulations?

[ChumpDumper]

So, how wouldn't the same apply to ABA or IBA, if by extension its own country is a national basketball federation?The USA is not a basketball federation.

USA Basketball is.

[oligarchy]

The USA is not a basketball federation.

USA Basketball is.
Thanks.

[Slo spurs fan]

Chump is right here. :tu

[jag]

A violent molestation has taken place in this thread...it's pretty obvious chump is right, not sure what the argument is.

[waly.mg]

One of the most significant diference between FIBA and the NBA is the Anti Drug Policy

The FIBA is under the COI Reglament, and the NBA is under is own

The NBA only joining the FIBA´s tournament when the COI accept that the NBA players don´t have antidoping controls

[pad300]

Further follow up from truehoop, a bit more detail about what actually happened.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-33-91/When-Mel-Turpin-was--Traded--to-Spain.html

What is surprising is how well this actually fits with my Bonner for Javotkas scenario. We hold Jav's rights, just like the Jazz did for Jose Ortiz. We could release Bonner on the understanding he was going to sign with CKSA. IIRC, Javtokas has an NBA buy out this summer, because they won the Euroleague. CKSA could waive Jav's buy out on the understanding Bonner was going to sign with CKSA...

This might work nicely for all parties. Bonner could get off the bench for CKSA. Javtokas's physical talent (as opposed to basketball skills) might fit better in the NBA than Euroleague. CKSA gets a player who better fits the Euroleague style (Bonner's shooting >>>> Javtokas's shooting), an SAS gets an athletic big with professional (ie big league, not D-League/French league) experience.

It has been stated that Javtokas's current salary is roughly 1M Euros (post Tax) (again, IIRC from Spurstalk). Assuming a 42% tax for income in Texas, Bonner's 2,983,500 US$ becomes 1,730,430 US$. Assuming 1.6 Eur/US$, that's about even...

Heh, someone get RC on the line, this might actually work...

[DPG21920]

This is crazy, I wonder what exactly is possible.

[Bruno]

It's impossible.
[/thread]