Josh Smith to be S&T'd?

[2Cleva]

Switching lanes
By Sekou K Smith | Saturday, July 26, 2008, 10:11 AM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

THE BASEMENT - This time a month ago I was busy calculating just how long it might take for the Hawks to wrap up negotiations with both Josh Smith and Josh Childress before putting the finishing touches on the roster in time for training camp.

Little did I know that I’d be sitting here this morning trying to wrap my dome around the fact that there’s a good chance neither Smith nor Childress would be in a Hawks uniform this season.

Childress, of course, is already gone.

Smith, on the other hand, is still in the crosshairs. But it’s not looking good for the Hawks on that front.

There are at least two, blockbuster sign-and-trade proposals the Hawks are chewing on regarding Smith (one from a Western Conference power and the other from an Eastern Conference big dog) that could dramatically change the landscape in Hawksville.

The “proverbial” ball appears to be clearly in the Hawks’ court regarding both opportunities, and we should presume many more. Because if they are resigned to the fact that they don’t intend to pay Smith a salary commensurate with what he feels he’s worth, then there only recourse is to sign-and-trade him.

The leverage we all assumed the Hawks had with their own restricted free agents went up in smoke last week when Childress bounced.

Anyone that doesn’t think Smith will wait this thing out as long as the Hawks is living in a dream world. If you don’t think he’ll sign a qualifying offer, play out his season and walk next summer as an unrestricted free agent you’re crazy.

If the Hawks want to get anything in return (and keep in mind they get absolutely nothing if he plays out the year and walks, NOTHING), they have to act now.

The tricky thing about sign-and-trades is that all sides not only have to agree on the deal but all three sides want to walk away from the deal the winner (whether it’s acknowledged by others or not).

With one loss already on the books this summer, the Hawks simply cannot afford another.

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/hawks/entries/2008/07/26/switching_lanes.htmlhttp://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/hawks/entries/2008/07/26/switching_lanes.html

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

It's gotta be the Lakers and Pistons.

[T Park]

Who would the Lakers be sending out.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I don't know, but they were able to get Gasol for Kwame. Any collusion is possible.

[ducks]

lets me like a rookie poster here
booner and picks for smith

[ducks]

Who would the Lakers be sending out.

odom

[dallaskd]

J-ho for Smith. do it mavs.

[mavs>spurs2]

^^ Hell Yea!!!

[IronMexican]

Odom for Smithhhh!!!!!!1

pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeasseeeeeeee!

[jack sommerset]

Mangoo 4 Smith

[baseline bum]

If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on Dallas being the Western power they're talking about.

[2Cleva]

Word is LA and Orlando.

[ducks]

hedo?

[Darthkiller]

why does the laker need him, plus they dont even have the money.

[Showtime24 LAKERS]

:toast Odom + Mihm for Josh Smith. do it Mitch!!



:clap

[baseline bum]

Why not just Odom for LeBron or Odom for Howard?

[monosylab1k]

If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on Dallas being the Western power they're talking about.

I would have bet on Dallas too, but once they said Western power I knew they weren't talking about the Mavs.

[picnroll]

Orlando with Smith and Howard would be one helluva defensive interior.

Not sure why Hawks would do a S&T for Odom and his one year contract. Maybe Lakers would give up Bynum for Smith. JHo sure isn't the value I'd hope to get back for Smith but Hawks are in a bind.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Josh Smith sign and trade might be the Atlanta Hawks best option


With the recent rumors of the Detroit Pistons being very interested in some kind of sign and trade with the Atlanta Hawks for young and talented forward Josh Smith, Sekou K Smith of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution writes that there are currently two deals on the table for Smith.


July 26, Atlanta Journal-Constitution: There are at least two, blockbuster sign-and-trade proposals the Hawks are chewing on regarding Smith (one from a Western Conference power and the other from an Eastern Conference big dog) that could dramatically change the landscape in Hawksville.

The "proverbial" ball appears to be clearly in the Hawks' court regarding both opportunities, and we should presume many more. Because if they are resigned to the fact that they don't intend to pay Smith a salary commensurate with what he feels he's worth, then there only recourse is to sign-and-trade him.

The leverage we all assumed the Hawks had with their own restricted free agents went up in smoke last week when Childress bounced.

Anyone that doesn't think Smith will wait this thing out as long as the Hawks is living in a dream world. If you don't think he'll sign a qualifying offer, play out his season and walk next summer as an unrestricted free agent you're crazy.

The Pistons might be that "Eastern Conference big dog". Any sign and trade that involves the Pistons and the Hawks would have to include a third team because both teams are over the salary cap and Smith would become a BYC player as soon as he signed any contract that gave him more than a 20% raise. Since the rumors are that Smith will receive a starting salary ranging from 9-12 million, the BYC status is assured.

With the Hawks backed into the proverbial corner and Smith wanting out of Atlanta, the Hawks management will have to act or risk losing more and more leverage. The rumored trade would involve Smith going to Detroit with Amir Johnson and Tayshaun Prince going to Atlanta. Those would be just the primary pieces to any deal, and the only third team that has any cap space left to facilitate a trade between the Pistons and Hawks are the Memphis Grizzlies.

Tayshaun Prince makes 9.5 million dollars and Amir Johnson makes 3.66 million dollars for a total of 13.16 million dollars. The Pistons could take back as much as $16,557,500 in salaries. If Josh Smith has a starting salary of 11 million and Speedy Claxton has a salary of 5.7 million, that's 16.7 million going to the Pistons.

But the Hawks, because of Smith's BYC status, can only take back 125% + 100k of the 5.5 million(50% of Smiths BYC starting salary) plus Claxton's 5.7 million, which adds us to 11.2 million. 125% + 100k of that figure is 14.1 million. Which falls within the 13.16 million that the contracts of Amir plus Tashaun equal to.

This trade scenario could work out with a few tweaks. The question is, will Joe Dumars do what it takes to make Smith a Piston, and will the Hawks management approve of a deal that would send Smith to Detroit.

Will Dumars act before the "Western Conference power" does? A deal is possible, but difficult.


http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2008/07/josh_smith_sign_and_trade_migh.html

[DaDakota]

Maybe it is the Rockets....come on Morey...Battier and whatever for this guy.

DD

[21_Blessings]

Why not just Odom for LeBron or Odom for Howard?

Are you really comparing Josh Smith to Lebron and Dwight Howard or are you just completely retarded?

[Spurtacus]

Fucking Lakers are going to steal another player for cheap.

[21_Blessings]

Not sure why Hawks would do a S&T for Odom and his one year contract. Maybe Lakers would give up Bynum for Smith. JHo sure isn't the value I'd hope to get back for Smith but Hawks are in a bind.

Because Odom would keep them in the playoff hunt; I'm sure the ownership enjoyed that 7 game playoff series revenue and increased ticket sales.

Assuming this is even true, the Lakers might be willing to throw in Farmar since the Hawks have been looking for PG since Mookie retired.

[mystargtr34]

Watch Billy Knight trade Smith for Odom then get fired and sign with the Lakers.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

HOOPSWORLD/26 July 2008/5:12 PM

Negotiations are reportedly going nowhere between the Atlanta Hawks and restricted free agent Josh Smith. Smith is hoping for an annual salary in excess of $10 million while the Hawks are reluctant to meet his price.
It's easy to forget the Hawks won just 37 regular season games last season since what everyone remembers is Atlanta pushing the Boston Celtics to the brink in the first round. The cold hard truth is, though, that Atlanta really isn't anywhere close to contending. As such, giving Smith big-time money is a risky proposition. Moreover, with Mike Bibby scheduled to come off the books next summer, the Hawks could look to re-tool in the summer of 2009 or 2010.
At this stage, it looks like the Hawks best bet might be to sign and trade Josh Smith. Sekou Smith of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution indicated that a "Western Conference power" and an "Eastern Conference big dog" have already submitted offers to the Hawks, and that the team is currently in the process of weighing those offers.
Of course, any kind of sign and trade deal is harder than it appears at face value. If Smith signs a contract in excess of $10 million as it's expected he will, he will immediately become a Base Year Compensation (BYC) player due to the 20% increase in his salary. This means the Hawks could only take back 50% of Smith's BYC contract, which definitely complicates potential trade scenarios. It's possible that a third team might have to get involved in a number trade scenarios. Still, even while complicated to consummate, there's a heck of a lot of smoke coming from the sign and trade Josh Smith fire.
This can't help but make one wonder who exactly the teams are that Sekou Smith was referring to. Could the LA Lakers be the "Western Conference powerhouse" poised to make a play for Smith?
Well, the Lakers could offer Lamar Odom to the Hawks and take back Smith and point guard Speedy Claxton, provided the deal Smith signs with Atlanta before being traded is enough to match salaries given his BYC status. The move would give the Lakers the defensive presence it lacked in the Finals against the Boston Celtics, and it would also provide the Hawks with a good player and an expiring contract in Odom valued at over $14 million.
The Denver Nuggets could be a suitor, too, as a result of the $10 million trade exception the team received in the Marcus Camby deal according to league sources. In addition to the trade exception, the Nuggets have some future first round picks to play with as well as young talent like J.R. Smith and Linas Kleiza. The Nuggets are the only team that can offer the Hawks straight cap relief. The question is whether or not the Nuggets would be willing to shell out somewhere in the neighborhood of $10-12 million for Smith, which would once again put the Nuggets deep into luxury tax territory.
Another possible suitor could be the Dallas Mavericks. Josh Howard is rumored to be on the market and a move to Atlanta would give him a fresh start playing alongside Bibby and Joe Johnson.
Phoenix is also a team to keep an eye on due to the fact both Leandro Barbosa and Boris Diaw have been on the market all summer.
In the Eastern Conference, word is the Detroit Pistons are making a push for Smith in a deal which would likely feature Tayshaun Prince being shipped out. Such an idea is intriguing for Atlanta, but one has to figure Hawks GM Rick Sund would be at least somewhat leery of shipping Smith to a team already at the top of the Eastern Conference.
There's always a chance Atlanta could change its stance and give Smith what he wants. The other option would involve Smith playing for the qualifying offer next season and then becoming an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2009. However, this would likely mean the Hawks would lose him for nothing next summer, which has to be a prospect Atlanta isn't very fond of.
All that said, the smart money points towards a sign and trade. And with offers reportedly already on the table, expect this situation to really heat up in the coming days.

[intlspurshk]

s/b blazers. Other teams just offered old and matured players. Hawks need new guns. Other than the injured 1st pick player and Roy, I think any combination by Blazers is better than what Mav or Lakers can offer

[picnroll]

Lakers were going to have to pick up Kenny Thomas's bad contract with Artest for Odom and now Lakerfan is fantasizing getting Smith in exchange for Odom's one year rental. When did Jerry West become the Hawk's GM?

[baseline bum]

Are you really comparing Josh Smith to Lebron and Dwight Howard or are you just completely retarded?

Because it's equally likely Odom gets traded for one of those two vs he gets traded for Smith.

[baseline bum]

Because Odom would keep them in the playoff hunt; I'm sure the ownership enjoyed that 7 game playoff series revenue and increased ticket sales.

Assuming this is even true, the Lakers might be willing to throw in Farmar since the Hawks have been looking for PG since Mookie retired.

Farmar + Odom for Josh Smith? :lmao :lmao :lmao

WTF do the Hawks get out of that? One year rental of Odom? LMFAO! I think they'd rather get a one year rental out of Smith and let him walk for nothing. Your trade is effectively Farmar for Smith. :lmao

What a fucking retard.

[iggypop123]

because of the byc it would have to be odom for speedy and josh smith. article says that maybe hawks would like to get cap room since bibby is expiring this year and they can retool

[iggypop123]

Farmar + Odom for Josh Smith? :lmao :lmao :lmao

WTF do the Hawks get out of that? One year rental of Odom? LMFAO! I think they'd rather get a one year rental out of Smith and let him walk for nothing. Your trade is effectively Farmar for Smith. :lmao

What a fucking retard.

smith doesn't have to sign the qualifying offer does he? he can persue a trade if he wants. just a matter if hawks cooperate

[baseline bum]

smith doesn't have to sign the qualifying offer does he? he can persue a trade if he wants. just a matter if hawks cooperate

He can only sign an offer sheet with Memphis if Atlanta doesn't want to cooperate. In theory I guess he could get an MLE offer sheet for one year from another team, but no one's going to do that, as of course Atlanta would match it. Atlanta doesn't have a single bad contract to dump either, so no way they'd rather rent the dumbest player in the league for a year over having another year of Smith going all out for his next contract. LMFAO @ retard Laker fans thinking they have anything to land Smith.

[baseline bum]

because of the byc it would have to be odom for speedy and josh smith. article says that maybe hawks would like to get cap room since bibby is expiring this year and they can retool

The Hawks could extend Marvin Williams $15 million next year, pick up the options on Horford and Law, and still have a max cap slot available should they not extend Smith this offseason. :lmao

[21_Blessings]

Because it's equally likely Odom gets traded for one of those two vs he gets traded for Smith.

Yup, you're a fucking retard.

[picnroll]

West collusion rapes Memphis and now Lakerfan thinks everyone is going to give players to LA. :lol

[TheMadHatter]

Ignorant fans fail to understand that trades get made in the NBA for financial reasons all the time.

Memphis made a salary dump to get out of Gasol's massive contract, it didn't really matter what they got back because all they wanted to do was clear capspace. And look at them now, good young team that is ready to rebuild. Hornets did the same thing a few years back when they gave up their franchise PG Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Ignorant fans fail to understand that trades get made in the NBA for financial reasons all the time.

Memphis made a salary dump to get out of Gasol's massive contract, it didn't really matter what they got back because all they wanted to do was clear capspace. And look at them now, good young team that is ready to rebuild. Hornets did the same thing a few years back when they gave up their franchise PG Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis.


Igorant Laker fan doesn't realize Atlanta is in great shape financially and doesn't need to make a move for financial reasons.

[TheMadHatter]

Igorant Laker fan doesn't realize Atlanta is in great shape financially and doesn't need to make a move for financial reasons.

If they were in such great shape financially Josh Smith and Josh Childress would be Hawks right now. The fact is their ownership is a mess, and worse they are extremely cheap.

[2Cleva]

Would Josh Smith look better on the Lakers or the Pistons? Reports out of Atlanta say one contending team is each conference is trying to work a sign-and-trade with the Hawks for J-Smoove, and while we don’t know exactly who it is yet, L.A. and Detroit make the most sense. If you replace Tayshaun Prince with Josh Smith (maybe give ATL one of Detroit’s young guys, too), are the Pistons then good enough to knock off the Celtics in a seven-game series?

Dimemag.com

Not just Laker fans figure LA is one of the teams from the evidence available.

[baseline bum]

Yup, you're a fucking retard.


If they were in such great shape financially Josh Smith and Josh Childress would be Hawks right now. The fact is their ownership is a mess, and worse they are extremely cheap.

LMAO. I made an airtight case as to why Los Angeles has no shot in hell at Smith. Let me further lay it out:

2009-10 committed salaries:

Joe Johnson $14,976,754
Speedy Claxton $5,209,454
Marvin Williams $7,355,165
Al Horford $4,307,640
Acie Law $2,216,160

red is a team option, green a qualifying offer

TOTALS:
$20,186,208 if they let everyone walk
$26,710,008 if they let Williams walk, and keep Horford and Law
$27,541,373 if they let Horford and Law walk, and Williams takes the qual
$30,186,208 if they let Horford and Law walk, and give Williams $10 million
$35,186,208 if they let Horford and Law walk, and give Williams $15 million
$36,710,008 if they keep Horford and Law, and give Williams $10 million
$41,710,008 if they keep Horford and Law, and give Williams $15 million


So, in the absolute worst case, the Hawks have $17.0 million in cap space, assuming the same cap from this year for next year. They drastically overpay Marvin Williams and they still have a max cap slot. More likely is they give Williams $10 million, bring Horford and Law back, and have $22.0 million in cap space. if they want to be as cheap as you seem to think they are, they can just let the underachieving Williams walk, keep Horford and Law for peanuts, and have only $26.7 million committed.

2009-10 is Claxton's last year on the books. No one is yet committed past 2009-10.

In summary, the Hawks have absolutely no reason to trade with LA for salary dump purposes, as there is not a single bad contract to dump. The chances for the Lakers to land Josh Smith for Odom are the same they land LeBron James for Odom, the same that they land Wilt for Odom, the same they pack up and move back to Minneapolis, etc.

LMFAO @ your dimemag post. They're speculating, and the article didn't even lay out a reason why LA could have any chance (hint: because there is none).

Sorry Laker fans; you don't have a Laker rat in high positions in the Hawks organization like you did in Memphis.

[2Cleva]

What WC team has a better player available than LA with Lamar Odom?

Besides Denver with Iverson (a team set at the SF spot and is cutting salary) the answer is none.

Hate has you may, it is a logical match considering

A - offering talent w/o a bad K
B - fits the Western Conference power tag
C - A franchise that has the financial resources to absorb a big K.

When you break it down, few teams fit that criteria.

Take a look at what Smith said - Western Conference power. Right away you can cut off all non-playoff teams. Bottom of the playoffs was Denver - hardly a power. I would say a power is only a team who made it past the 1st round but for the sake of argument, start at the bottom.

7 - Dallas. Cuban could do anything and Josh Howard is the bait. But does Atl want another SF when they have Marvin Williams already to take over there? Dallas has no young talent or picks to sweeten the deal.

6 - Phoenix. Phx ain't dealing Nash, Amare, or Shaq. Diaw and Barbosa is the bait but Atl was happy to get rid of Diaw the first time - they won't want him back. Does Barbosa really fit with Bibby/JJ in the backcourt?

5 - Houston. Great team but after the big 2 what talent do they have to offer?

4 - Utah. Boozer could be in play because Utah may deal him before he walks but Atl already has Horford. Can't see AK fitting in Atl but its possible. Utah also could offer Okur. However, Josh has a large say in where he goes and I can't see a 22 yr old from Atlanta wanting to go to Utah.

3 - SA - What do they have to offer? Big 3 stay so thats that. Atl wouldn't want Ginobili. SA ain't dealing Parker.

2 - New Orleans. Just made their move in Posey. The roster is set.

1 - You already know. Has talent available in Odom. Willing to pay money. Also can add a young filler like Farmar.

Saying no is one thing - thinking about it is something else. I'm not saying it happens but its likely LA is the one talking to Atl more than any other WC team according to Smith.

[angelbelow]

lakers would send out odom, but not sure if it benefits them that greatly.

[kingmalaki]

What WC team has a better player available than LA with Lamar Odom?

Besides Denver with Iverson (a team set at the SF spot and is cutting salary) the answer is none.

Hate has you may, it is a logical match considering

A - offering talent w/o a bad K
B - fits the Western Conference power tag
C - A franchise that has the financial resources to absorb a big K.

When you break it down, few teams fit that criteria.

Take a look at what Smith said - Western Conference power. Right away you can cut off all non-playoff teams. Bottom of the playoffs was Denver - hardly a power. I would say a power is only a team who made it past the 1st round but for the sake of argument, start at the bottom.

7 - Dallas. Cuban could do anything and Josh Howard is the bait. But does Atl want another SF when they have Marvin Williams already to take over there? Dallas has no young talent or picks to sweeten the deal.

6 - Phoenix. Phx ain't dealing Nash, Amare, or Shaq. Diaw and Barbosa is the bait but Atl was happy to get rid of Diaw the first time - they won't want him back. Does Barbosa really fit with Bibby/JJ in the backcourt?

5 - Houston. Great team but after the big 2 what talent do they have to offer?

4 - Utah. Boozer could be in play because Utah may deal him before he walks but Atl already has Horford. Can't see AK fitting in Atl but its possible. Utah also could offer Okur. However, Josh has a large say in where he goes and I can't see a 22 yr old from Atlanta wanting to go to Utah.

3 - SA - What do they have to offer? Big 3 stay so thats that. Atl wouldn't want Ginobili. SA ain't dealing Parker.

2 - New Orleans. Just made their move in Posey. The roster is set.

1 - You already know. Has talent available in Odom. Willing to pay money. Also can add a young filler like Farmar.

Saying no is one thing - thinking about it is something else. I'm not saying it happens but its likely LA is the one talking to Atl more than any other WC team according to Smith.

You are right about what the other teams have to offer, but fail to realize that renting Odom for one season does nothing for Atlanta. Odom won't resign with them, and if they don't want to pay Smith I highly doubt they will want to pay Odom more $$$.

For Atlanta to ship this guy out they will have to get something back in return. What does Odom give them that they don't already have (versatile SF/PF who won't make them elite next year and can walk next summer)? The situation would be different if Odom had a longer contract, if you guys had picks to offer (you don't because of the Gasol trade), or if the Hawks needed cap room (they dont...see baseline bum's posts).

[baseline bum]

What WC team has a better player available than LA with Lamar Odom?


OMFG, this is so funny. Odom is a moron. Anyone who watches a lot of Laker games knows this beyond a shadow of a doubt. Remember when Odom cost the Lakers that game in Detroit by leaving Prince with no one within 10 feet of him at the buzzer? How about repeatedly leaving Nowitzki open the last minute or two of the fourth in that OT game in LA? Odom has been nothing but a complete failure in LA, and nobody wants him.



Besides Denver with Iverson (a team set at the SF spot and is cutting salary) the answer is none.

Hate has you may, it is a logical match considering

A - offering talent w/o a bad K
B - fits the Western Conference power tag
C - A franchise that has the financial resources to absorb a big K.

When you break it down, few teams fit that criteria.



WC Powers are LA, SA, NO, Phx, Dallas, Utah, Houston, and Denver. Basically, the whole conference's playoff lineup. Aynone who wins 50 games is usually considered a title contender.




7 - Dallas. Cuban could do anything and Josh Howard is the bait. But does Atl want another SF when they have Marvin Williams already to take over there? Dallas has no young talent or picks to sweeten the deal.


They don't want Howard because they have Williams? Then WTF do they want Odom for? Howard is a young versatile player who can score and defend, and who was the main reason for the Mavericks resurgence in 06. Even after a pretty bad year last year, there's no GM who'd take Odom over Howard for anything but the expiring contract, and the expiring contract idea has been shot down repeatedly.



6 - Phoenix. Phx ain't dealing Nash, Amare, or Shaq. Diaw and Barbosa is the bait but Atl was happy to get rid of Diaw the first time - they won't want him back. Does Barbosa really fit with Bibby/JJ in the backcourt?


Barbosa becomes their point if they let Bibby walk next season. Atlanta was happy to get rid of Diaw because they were too stupid to realize he could play. Now they know.



5 - Houston. Great team but after the big 2 what talent do they have to offer?

Battier + Scola > Odom



4 - Utah. Boozer could be in play because Utah may deal him before he walks but Atl already has Horford. Can't see AK fitting in Atl but its possible. Utah also could offer Okur. However, Josh has a large say in where he goes and I can't see a 22 yr old from Atlanta wanting to go to Utah.


Boozer >> Odom. Smith will go to Utah if they pay him what he wants. The same way Maggette wanted to a couple of years back.



3 - SA - What do they have to offer? Big 3 stay so thats that. Atl wouldn't want Ginobili. SA ain't dealing Parker.

2 - New Orleans. Just made their move in Posey. The roster is set.


Neither of these are likely, as no major players are on the block for either.



1 - You already know. Has talent available in Odom. Willing to pay money. Also can add a young filler like Farmar.


What is Atlanta's upside in doing this deal? Please please tell me why they would ever do this deal. Give me one reason why Odom for a year @ $14.5 million is better than Smith for a year at less than half that?

Even if for some ridiculous reason they ever wanted Odom @ PF long-term, they can just sign him in '09 if they can't agree to terms with Smith by then. Of course they'd rather have Smith though. The Hawks have no reason to cave into a max request from Smith right now, when no one is actually bidding for him. Why should they bid against themselves right now?

LA has no young talent to offer. Young talent is Paul Millsap, Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, Devin Harris, etc. It's not scrubs like Farmar, Walton, Arisa, and so on.



Saying no is one thing - thinking about it is something else. I'm not saying it happens but its likely LA is the one talking to Atl more than any other WC team according to Smith.

According to Smith where? All he says is it's a western conference power. There's 5 of those who can come up with a way better offer than LA. You cast Denver aside even though they've clearly been shopping Carmello.

The only players I've even brought up are guys that are on the block, except for Battier + Scola.

[2Cleva]

You are right about what the other teams have to offer, but fail to realize that renting Odom for one season does nothing for Atlanta. Odom won't resign with them, and if they don't want to pay Smith I highly doubt they will want to pay Odom more $$$.

For Atlanta to ship this guy out they will have to get something back in return. What does Odom give them that they don't already have (versatile SF/PF who won't make them elite next year and can walk next summer)? The situation would be different if Odom had a longer contract, if you guys had picks to offer (you don't because of the Gasol trade), or if the Hawks needed cap room (they dont...see baseline bum's posts).

For ATL to ship him out it means Josh is forcing his way and they don't want to keep him for 1 year at the Qualifying Offer and want value now. That said, Odom played his best ball in the undersized East - he'll resign with whoever gives it to him.

Its not like Atl has Josh under K and sending him for the best offer - its Josh trying to get out for the best deal for him.

[baseline bum]

For ATL to ship him out it means Josh is forcing his way and they don't want to keep him for 1 year at the Qualifying Offer and want value now. That said, Odom played his best ball in the undersized East - he'll resign with whoever gives it to him.

Its not like Atl has Josh under K and sending him for the best offer - its Josh trying to get out for the best deal for him.

It's Josh trying to force their hand and Atlanta not bidding against itself. Smith will be in a contract year, so he's not going to dog it in Atlanta if he plays for the QO. It would be one thing if you're a Detroit fan arguing about Prince being value, as he's under contract in 09 and cannot be the backup plan if Smith walks. Odom on the other hand is a free agent in 09 who will be available, as his trade value will come form his expiring contract this year... so LA won't extend him, and whoever might trade for him won't either. The Hawks have absolutely nothing to gain by trading Smith for Odom, and lots of money to lose.

[2Cleva]

OMFG, this is so funny. Odom is a moron. Anyone who watches a lot of Laker games knows this beyond a shadow of a doubt. Remember when Odom cost the Lakers that game in Detroit by leaving Prince with no one within 10 feet of him at the buzzer? How about repeatedly leaving Nowitzki open the last minute or two of the fourth in that OT game in LA? Odom has been nothing but a complete failure in LA, and nobody wants him.

Moron? Maybe. No one wants him? Hardly. Always a market for a guy of his measurables and talents, especially when he doesn't have to be the man scoring. Put him in an uptempo team with a lot of shooters/scorers where he doesn't have to play in the post - ie Miami, Clipps and he can do his thing - just be a role player and set it up for everyone else.

Odom with Horford, JJ and Bibby does give Atl the passer they need.


WC Powers are LA, SA, NO, Phx, Dallas, Utah, Houston, and Denver. Basically, the whole conference's playoff lineup. Aynone who wins 50 games is usually considered a title contender.

C'mon now really. We all know 50 wins or not, there are contenders and pretenders in your list.


They don't want Howard because they have Williams? Then WTF do they want Odom for? Howard is a young versatile player who can score and defend, and who was the main reason for the Mavericks resurgence in 06. Even after a pretty bad year last year, there's no GM who'd take Odom over Howard for anything but the expiring contract, and the expiring contract idea has been shot down repeatedly.

So you say. Dallas always has to be in the mix for S&T possibilities - I already said as such because of Cuban.


Barbosa becomes their point if they let Bibby walk next season. Atlanta was happy to get rid of Diaw because they were too stupid to realize he could play. Now they know.

Diaw has busted up the last 2 years. No way they want him back. And Barbosa is no PG.


Battier + Scola > Odom

Talent-wise? Not a chance.


Boozer >> Odom. Smith will go to Utah if they pay him what he wants. The same way Maggette wanted to a couple of years back.

I agree that Boozer is better. But you really think Josh (or anyone) is working hard to get to Utah when they can get the same if not more money elsewhere?


What is Atlanta's upside in doing this deal? Please please tell me why they would ever do this deal. Give me one reason why Odom for a year @ $14.5 million is better than Smith for a year at less than half that?

Even if for some ridiculous reason they ever wanted Odom @ PF long-term, they can just sign him in '09 if they can't agree to terms with Smith by then. Of course they'd rather have Smith though. The Hawks have no reason to cave into a max request from Smith right now, when no one is actually bidding for him. Why should they bid against themselves right now?

Josh is dictating things more so than Atlanta at this point.


LA has no young talent to offer. Young talent is Paul Millsap, Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, Devin Harris, etc. It's not scrubs like Farmar, Walton, Arisa, and so on.

Different degrees of talent. Been so long since SA had any worthwhile you may have forgot what it looks like. :toast


According to Smith where? All he says is it's a western conference power. There's 5 of those who can come up with a way better offer than LA. You cast Denver aside even though they've clearly been shopping Carmello.

Melo ain't available. Denver made that clear when Detroit rumors first popped up. He ain't being shopped at all.

[2Cleva]

It's Josh trying to force their hand and Atlanta not bidding against itself. Smith will be in a contract year, so he's not going to dog it in Atlanta if he plays for the QO. It would be one thing if you're a Detroit fan arguing about Prince being value, as he's under contract in 09 and cannot be the backup plan if Smith walks. Odom on the other hand is a free agent in 09 who will be available, as his trade value will come form his expiring contract this year... so LA won't extend him, and whoever might trade for him won't either. The Hawks have absolutely nothing to gain by trading Smith for Odom, and lots of money to lose.

And why won't anyone extend Odom? No logic there. His value is obviously higher than you perceive.

[2Cleva]

Again, I'm not saying LA is getting Josh Smith. But its a good chance that they are in the mix. In all likelihood, Josh signs the QO, plays out one year in Atlanta, and goes next summer.

[baseline bum]

Moron? Maybe. No one wants him? Hardly. Always a market for a guy of his measurables and talents, especially when he doesn't have to be the man scoring. Put him in an uptempo team with a lot of shooters/scorers where he doesn't have to play in the post - ie Miami, Clipps and he can do his thing - just be a role player and set it up for everyone else.

Odom with Horford, JJ and Bibby does give Atl the passer they need.


Odom gives them a declining player who never lived up to his hype.



C'mon now really. We all know 50 wins or not, there are contenders and pretenders in your list.


It's not about who you consider contenders. It's about who this writer considers. Phoenix is a team that everyone was picking to make the WCF last year. Dallas is one year removed from 67 wins. SA one year removed from being the champs. Houston has tons of talent, and would challenge for a title if they could ever get healthy. Utah is a team the media vastly overrated last season, so no shock if this guy calls them contenders. They were also in the WCF a year ago. The only team on that list you could make any argument against is Denver.




Diaw has busted up the last 2 years. No way they want him back. And Barbosa is no PG.


Odom's no PF either.




I agree that Boozer is better. But you really think Josh (or anyone) is working hard to get to Utah when they can get the same if not more money elsewhere?


He can't get more money elsewhere, because Memphis is not pursuing him.




Josh is dictating things more so than Atlanta at this point.


No he isn't. The CBA Stern pushed on the players after the lockout ensures teams always have their rookies by the balls (unless they're second round picks or go to Europe). Smith can only get paid if Atlanta wants to do it. Sucks for the player, but he has no choice under the current CBA.



Different degrees of talent. Been so long since SA had any worthwhile you may have forgot what it looks like. :toast


Farmar's about on par with Udoka. I hate to say it because I'm a huge Farmar fan (having gone to UCLA), but he's nothing special at the NBA level.


According to Smith where? All he says is it's a western conference power. There's 5 of those who can come up with a way better offer than LA. You cast Denver aside even though they've clearly been shopping

Melo ain't available. Denver made that clear when Detroit rumors first popped up. He ain't being shopped at all.

Melo wasn't available for an aging player like Billups, but might be as part of a package for Smith and a big like Williams or Horford.

[baseline bum]

And why won't anyone extend Odom? No logic there. His value is obviously higher than you perceive.

Anyone trading for him is trading for his cap flexibility. LA has been trying to move Odom for years, with no biters.

[picnroll]

And why won't anyone extend Odom? No logic there. His value is obviously higher than you perceive.
Because Smith is >>>>> Odom and ultimately if the Hawks decide they have to move Smith they can get >>>>>> better value for him. Ultimately Smith and the Hawks will likely come to terms.

[2Cleva]

LA could have moved Odom many of times - they chose not to because Mitch is scared to pull the trigger on a questionable move - and has been that way since the GP for Mihm fiasco. His patience has paid off but LA could have had Boozer, Artest, Peja, G Wallace, Crawford/Frye a couple years back and many others for LO.

Equation changed because before LA was holding onto Odom as if he was a #2 guy. With Bynum's emergence and then the Gasol theft, they don't need as much for him. They will be picky about any LO deal until they get a deal or his K expires.

[2Cleva]

Because Smith is >>>>> Odom and ultimately if the Hawks decide they have to move Smith they can get >>>>>> better value for him. Ultimately Smith and the Hawks will likely come to terms.

Same thought was that they would keep Childress as well and we saw how that turned out.

Atlanta is threatening matching to all teams who was interested in them before and both players were getting bigger offers in S&T than what Atl wanted to pay them.

We'll see how it plays out but I can't see Josh in Atl longer than this season.

[mavs>spurs2]

baseline bum makes plenty of good points..I think it's safe to say Smith definately isn't going to L.A. I would say Dallas is a possibility because they can offer a comparable talent in Howard but the FO is just to incompetent to get a deal done. Most likely disgruntled Smith plays out the last year of his contract and walks next summer.

[baseline bum]

Same thought was that they would keep Childress as well and we saw how that turned out.

Atlanta is threatening matching to all teams who was interested in them before and both players were getting bigger offers in S&T than what Atl wanted to pay them.

We'll see how it plays out but I can't see Josh in Atl longer than this season.

Childress left the NBA. Smith will have to do the same to get paid without Atlanta getting something out of it.

[picnroll]

Temas that could offer much better talent for Smith

Detroit - a number of packages. If I'm Atlanta I ask for one that includs Stuckey
Chicago - Deng S&T. Much better in the long run than Odom.
Philly - Iguodala S&T.
Portland - a number of players.
Dallas - Howard but he seems to be a knucklehead.

But I think Smith and Atlanta will come to terms. If he plays it out he'll only have choices of teams that have the cap room next year which won't be many of the contenders anyways.

[kingmalaki]

For ATL to ship him out it means Josh is forcing his way and they don't want to keep him for 1 year at the Qualifying Offer and want value now. That said, Odom played his best ball in the undersized East - he'll resign with whoever gives it to him.

Its not like Atl has Josh under K and sending him for the best offer - its Josh trying to get out for the best deal for him.

How can he force their hand....he is restricted. Better yet, how can he force their hand in this trade scenario? All he can do is threaten to leave at the end of the year. Um, Odom is a guy that can do the same thing next year. So it's pointless to pay more this year for a guy that can still bolt next year, unless the guy you are acquiring is singificantly better (Odom isn't), or you get some extra assets back...like picks or young talent or something.

It just doesn't make sense.