Ron Artest set for deal to Rockets

[DaDakota]

Love the optimism. Are you my stockbroker?


Only finished 2 games out of first in the entire WC without Yao Ming....and 1 game out of the division....

With Yao the team is number 1 in the WC last year......and they just got better.

Not to mention teams that have not won squat lately are hungrier during the regular season.

:D

DD

[Indazone]

Still Crazy After All These Years

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBx8LSwqRpE

and now he is all ours.

[Tmac&Luther]

You're seriously putting Barry at the three? :lol

He's not a three, never been a three. He's a 2 who can play the 1.

He's got the size and length for spot duty over there. Adelman is very creative and runs some creative sets at times.

But anyways if you want to take him out of the discussion for being a 3, so be it.........

Artest/Battier/Tmac........and we are still completely stacked at that position.

[knee-knee-3]

Only finished 2 games out of first in the entire WC without Yao Ming....and 1 game out of the division....

With Yao the team is number 1 in the WC last year......and they just got better.

Not to mention teams that have not won squat lately are hungrier during the regular season.

:D

DD

Regular season is shit. You did just get better, but put down the crackpipe, there's a lot of work to be done.

[knee-knee-3]

He's got the size and length for spot duty over there. Adelman is very creative and runs some creative sets at times.

But anyways if you want to take him out of the discussion for being a 3, so be it.........

Artest/Battier/Tmac........and we are still completely stacked at that position.

Barry will play spot duty at the three during T-Mac's 20 game absence due to injury.

[DaDakota]

Regular season is shit. You did just get better, but put down the crackpipe, there's a lot of work to be done.


No doubt, and health is the key to our team......but you have to admit, that the Rockets just got a 20ppg scorer in his prime for NOTHING, which is amazing.

DD

[Indazone]

rumor has it that Ron will be playing some at the 4. They think he's got the size and strength to be able to handle the position. Maybe not all the time but at least some at the 4 spot.

[TheMadHatter]

Ron at the 4 would be a bad idea. The Rockets would be a poor rebounding team if they did that, with Yao being the only legitimate 7 footer on the floor.

[Indazone]

I dunno, ya got Chuck Hayes playing a lot of minutes at the 4 spot and he's not exactly tall either. I think Artest is bigger than Hayes.

[Tmac&Luther]

Barry will play spot duty at the three during T-Mac's 20 game absence due to injury.

As long as he's around for the postseason I don't give a crap if Tmac misses 40 games next season, we have enough talent to float the boat through the regular season.

[Kai]

Regular season is shit. You did just get better, but put down the crackpipe, there's a lot of work to be done.

While that's partly true, the argument was that the Rox would be the #1 seed, and he was just explaining why he thought we would have it. He wasn't saying we get the #1 seed and that means we win a championship.

[TheMadHatter]

While I think this is a great trade for HOU considering what they gave up, I don't believe Ron Artest addresses any major needs they have. They already have an elite SF defender and one of the premiere perimeter players in the league. Artest doesn't really move well without the ball, how are you gonna divvy up the possessions between him, T-Mac, and Yao?

You can't just throw a group of stars together and expect results. The pieces have to fit. For BOS the pieces actually fit exceptionally well, PP/RA/KG all complement each other's games perfectly. Gasol was a perfect fit in the triangle offense. Ron Artest on the Rockets........not so much.

[Kai]

Ron at the 4 would be a bad idea. The Rockets would be a poor rebounding team if they did that, with Yao being the only legitimate 7 footer on the floor.

While I agree that Artest at the 4 would be a bad idea (most of the time), I still have to ask you when you actually do see more than one than one legitimate 7 footer on the floor?

[knee-knee-3]

While that's partly true, the argument was that the Rox would be the #1 seed, and he was just explaining why he thought we would have it. He wasn't saying we get the #1 seed and that means we win a championship.

Is it realistic to expect a #1 seed?

[Tmac&Luther]

Ron at the 4 would be a bad idea. The Rockets would be a poor rebounding team if they did that, with Yao being the only legitimate 7 footer on the floor.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing this rotation for limited period's of the game.

Yao
Scola/Landry
Battier
Artest
with
Tmac running the point.

Lockdown defense and size all over the court.

[Kai]

While I think this is a great trade for HOU considering what they gave up, I don't believe Ron Artest addresses any major needs they have. They already have an elite SF defender and one of the premiere perimeter players in the league. Artest doesn't really move well without the ball, how are you gonna divvy up the possessions between him, T-Mac, and Yao?

You can't just throw a group of stars together and expect results. The pieces have to fit. For BOS the pieces actually fit exceptionally well, PP/RA/KG all complement each other's games perfectly. Gasol was a perfect fit in the triangle offense. Ron Artest on the Rockets........not so much.

I'm sorry I wasn't informed that next season has already taken place.

[Killakobe81]

H-Town be happy just remember not evry team thrown together can do what Boston did and to be honest the celts big 3 is much more proven than the one you have ...none of yours has done aNYTHING deep in to a playoffs yet ...but imust admit on paper you look good ...and for the nut that has Portland already top 4 in the West ...wow ...To be honest out of the most likey playofff teams i would love the BLazers the most defense is ok not great ...no experience I garuntee a 5 game series if we get them next year ...

[Kai]

Is it realistic to expect a #1 seed?

Well we did get within 2 games of it this year, and added Artest, Barry, and Yao (sort of) without losing anyone (besides the great Bobby Jackson that is), so I'd say it's at least realistic to think we are on the short list of favorites for the #1 spot.

[rj215]

Well we did get within 2 games of it this year, and added Artest, Barry, and Yao (sort of) without losing anyone (besides the great Bobby Jackson that is), so I'd say it's at least realistic to think we are on the short list of favorites for the #1 spot.

If the Rockets' 'Big 3' stay healthy for a whole season they have the talent to win 60 games but that'll never happen so who cares.

[Tmac&Luther]

If the Rockets' 'Big 3' stay healthy for a whole season they have the talent to win 60 games but that'll never happen so who cares.

The won 55 last year despite not staying healthy....it's not a complete stretch to say they'll win 60 despite some injuries along the way.

[Kobe24Forever]

you know ron will want a contract extension to feel wanted

:lol

[TheMadHatter]

LMAO at all the Rockette bandwagoners popping up all of a sudden.

"WE'RE RELEVANT, WE'RE RELEVANT"

[DPG21920]

Are you kidding me? Lets just think about this logically. The Rockets, despite their first round blunders are a very well composed team. If the Spurs could of got Ron without giving up any of their big 3 that in itself would have been considered a home run. The fact that Houston got him without giving up T-Mac, Yao or Battier or Scola or Alston was a slam dunk. That only makes their team better offensively and defensively and gives them a toughness that they sorely lacked. For all of Houston's moves that they have made in the past that have failed, this is a no brainier that makes so much sense on so many levels. If this goes through, congrats H-Town front office and our division just got a hell of a lot tougher.

[nil.ball]

Are you kidding me? Lets just think about this logically. The Rockets, despite their first round blunders are a very well composed team. If the Spurs could of got Ron without giving up any of their big 3 that in itself would have been considered a home run. The fact that Houston got him without giving up T-Mac, Yao or Battier or Scola or Alston was a slam dunk. That only makes their team better offensively and defensively and gives them a toughness that they sorely lacked. For all of Houston's moves that they have made in the past that have failed, this is a no brainier that makes so much sense on so many levels. If this goes through, congrats H-Town front office and our division just got a hell of a lot tougher.


:danceclub

[Blackjack]

While I think this is a great trade for HOU considering what they gave up, I don't believe Ron Artest addresses any major needs they have. They already have an elite SF defender and one of the premiere perimeter players in the league. Artest doesn't really move well without the ball, how are you gonna divvy up the possessions between him, T-Mac, and Yao?

You can't just throw a group of stars together and expect results. The pieces have to fit. For BOS the pieces actually fit exceptionally well, PP/RA/KG all complement each other's games perfectly. Gasol was a perfect fit in the triangle offense. Ron Artest on the Rockets........not so much.

Artest will bring some needed toughness, but I agree with you for the most part. :tu

After living through the Rodman era in S.A. I'm wondering if a similar scenario might play out.

The Spurs too were perceived as an underachieveing team with soft star. They brought in Rodman to get them over the hump, and we all know how that turned out.

I'm interested in seeing how Artest reacts if or when Yao and T-Mac shrivels under pressure. My guess is he'll make the way Rodman viewed Dave as respectful.

[Kobe24Forever]

Artest will bring some needed toughness, but I agree with you for the most part. :tu

After living through the Rodman era in S.A. I'm wondering if a similar scenario might play out.

The Spurs too were perceived as an underachieveing team with soft star. They brought in Rodman to get them over the hump, and we all know how that turned out.

I'm interested in seeing how Artest reacts if or when Yao and T-Mac shrivels under pressure. My guess is he'll make the way Rodman viewed Dave as respectful.

With all due respect, Rodman was a stud in the playoffs, David Robinson probably cost them the series not playing up to his standards.

[nil.ball]

With all due respect, Rodman was a stud in the playoffs, David Robinson probably cost them the series not playing up to his standards.

hehe, hope yaoming will play up to his standard..

[Kai]

Artest will bring some needed toughness, but I agree with you for the most part. :tu

After living through the Rodman era in S.A. I'm wondering if a similar scenario might play out.

The Spurs too were perceived as an underachieveing team with soft star. They brought in Rodman to get them over the hump, and we all know how that turned out.

I'm interested in seeing how Artest reacts if or when Yao and T-Mac shrivels under pressure. My guess is he'll make the way Rodman viewed Dave as respectful.

When have you exactly seen T-Mac or Yao shrivel under pressure? We have not made it out of the first round with either, but it hasn't been because T-mac or Yao haven't performed well, our team lost the games, not just one person.

Also, T-Mac didn't perform well in the 4th qtr (which only took place during the first 2 games, not the whole series) of the playoffs because he had to fill in for Rafer's distributing role while still being an offensive juggernaut without Yao. Being exausted and "shriveling" are two different things.

[Blackjack]

With all due respect, Rodman was a stud in the playoffs, David Robinson probably cost them the series not playing up to his standards.

Rodman did most of his damage behind the scenes and while Dave had a poor series (by his standards) against the Rockets, Bob Hill could be blamed for alot of it.

I've heard several reporters and people who followed the Spurs back in the day say that had it not been for Rodman, the Spurs probably would have had a ring much sooner. Whether I totally believe that or not I'm not so sure, but I do believe Rodman did a number on that teams chemistry inside and out of the locker room.

[Blackjack]

When have you exactly seen T-Mac or Yao shrivel under pressure? We have not made it out of the first round with either, but it hasn't been because T-mac or Yao haven't performed well, our team lost the games, not just one person.

Also, T-Mac didn't perform well in the 4th qtr (which only took place during the first 2 games, not the whole series) of the playoffs because he had to fill in for Rafer's distributing role while still being an offensive juggernaut without Yao. Being exausted and "shriveling" are two different things.

I'm sorry, your right. :tu

I'm clearly talking out of my ass... I mean, it's not like T-Mac has been in the league since around.... '97? His career clearly started when he went to the Rockets, thus he's really never come up short.

I apologize to you and the city of Houston for doubting the clutchness of such accomplished players as T-Mac and Yao. I only that you can find it in your heart to forgive me. :smokin

[AusSpursFan]

quietly concerned about this development, I don't have a crystal ball, but looking at things the way they are now we just moved up the order in the draft.

[Josepatches]

funny that only on spurstalk is that tony parker considered a super talent on the same level as both manu and duncan.

Agreed but I would say funny that only on spurstalk are those tony Parker and Manu considered super talents on the same level as Tim Duncan

[iggypop123]

While I agree that Artest at the 4 would be a bad idea (most of the time), I still have to ask you when you actually do see more than one than one legitimate 7 footer on the floor?

we will have them

[iggypop123]

Well we did get within 2 games of it this year, and added Artest, Barry, and Yao (sort of) without losing anyone (besides the great Bobby Jackson that is), so I'd say it's at least realistic to think we are on the short list of favorites for the #1 spot.

wait until the schedule is out. one team will get screwed with some crazy 8 game road trip like we did last year.

[wisnub]

Could this deal be just what the rockets need to finally make it out of the first round other than Yao and Tmac being healthy?

This freak the shit out of me..not another one championship contender in fully pack West. I think if Yao and Tmac is healhty, provided they have Battier and Scola...addition of Artest not only make them past first round...hate to say it but our chance against team is not that great. Even if we get past them somehow, we surely run out of gas in Finals....just like a dejavu

[wisnub]

i almost forgot they got Barry too

[Spur-Addict]

]Well then I hope he enjoys finishing 3 or fouth and out in round 2.[/B] Houston already plays us tuff without Artest, but with him, and adding some players to the bench from the draft, I gotta say they look better than us on paper, and they have good team cemestry so we need to add someone.

Look at the trash they sent for him, if he acts up they can buy him out and be out almost nothing. Artest is no more a loon than Steve Jackson was when pops took him.

cry baby bitch

[Spur-Addict]

In the regular season, the Spurs shouldn't even play Manu against the Rockets. He'd take a couple years off of his life trying to score on both Artest and Battier at the same time. Those should be some automatic vacation games for Manu.

Damn the Rockets look like they've won their 12th paper championship. Luckily they only have two real championships to show for it. But WTF, how do they always end up with the fallen stars . . .

To be honest, if Van Gundy was the coach i'd be a bit more concerned.

[Spur-Addict]

What the fuck.... again, the spurs haven't done dick to get better and they continue to hold on to has beens like bowen instead of thinking about the future...

shit...bowen is the best, he is all san antonio, but shit, i can't take seeing him shoot another side 3 pointer and then gettin lit up by Kobe for fucking 40 a game in a playoff series....

shit, that's a given..;

it's time to retool this fucking team and they constantly have their heads up their asses.

Some1 needs to ban this loser

[Spur-Addict]

Ron at the 4 would be a bad idea. The Rockets would be a poor rebounding team if they did that, with Yao being the only legitimate 7 footer on the floor.

You're a hating loser, all the time, go away.

[Spur-Addict]

While I think this is a great trade for HOU considering what they gave up, I don't believe Ron Artest addresses any major needs they have. They already have an elite SF defender and one of the premiere perimeter players in the league. Artest doesn't really move well without the ball, how are you gonna divvy up the possessions between him, T-Mac, and Yao?

You can't just throw a group of stars together and expect results. The pieces have to fit. For BOS the pieces actually fit exceptionally well, PP/RA/KG all complement each other's games perfectly. Gasol was a perfect fit in the triangle offense. Ron Artest on the Rockets........not so much.

Only problems they have=health...you are a hater..loser...YOU LOSE, LOSER, LOSER, LOSER!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spur-Addict]

LMAO at all the Rockette bandwagoners popping up all of a sudden.

"WE'RE RELEVANT, WE'RE RELEVANT"

Another post by you?...You're more lame then I thought...DAMN...:lmao

[Bruno]

Kings got a quite good return for Artest. He has done everything possible to hurt his trade value lately and getting a first round pick and a prospect coming from a good SL is not that bad.

Rockets have a heck of a team on the paper. If everything works, they will be at Lakers and Celtics level. Their biggest weakness is the PG spot : Alston is coming from a good season but could easily be back at a crappy level, he has still done that before. Artest could also hurt their chemistry, some clashes could happens with T-Mac and/or Alston.

[ploto]

Paging Robert Horry...

[ceperez]

Um, they didn't steal Barry from us, the Spurs front office let him go.

Not exactly, if we had known that Maggette wasn't available, then we would have the money to match the Rockets offer. The Rockets made Barry an offer before the Spurs knew what players were not available to them.

Knowing what you know now, doesn't it give you the creeps that when we play the Rockets, Barry is standing their beyond the 3 point arc waiting to make up pay big time when we double Yao or McGrady.

[21_Blessings]

wait until the schedule is out. one team will get screwed with some crazy 8 game road trip like we did last year.

The Lakers get screwed like that every season. Which is why the Clippers need to get the fuck out of Staples Center.

[ceperez]

Rockets have a heck of a team on the paper. If everything works, they will be at Lakers and Celtics level. Their biggest weakness is the PG spot : Alston is coming from a good season but could easily be back at a crappy level, he has still done that before. Artest could also hurt their chemistry, some clashes could happens with T-Mac and/or Alston.

I don't think Manu is going to be able score much with Artest and Battier hounding him the whole game. In fact, he may even be a liability in the defense with Artest posting him up (just like what the Jazz did with Harpring and the Lakers did with Radmanovic).

Duncan always has a difficult time against taller players like Yao.

Parker is probably where we have a matchup advantage. Against the rockets will need to play an up tempo game and use our new found quickness (gist, mason, hill) against them.

[21_Blessings]

^^ Spurs are done.

[anakha]

^^ Spurs are done.

Just like the Lakers were going to win games 3-6 of the NBA Finals?

[ceperez]

Daryl Morey ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Morey ) is running rings around our front office.

His hiring follows the recent Moneyball trend of moving away from scouting in favor of more statistical-based analysis. Several baseball teams have hired executives with non-traditional baseball backgrounds, but the Rockets are the first NBA team to hire a general manager in this vein.

Morey earned a BS in computer science from Northwestern University, and an MBA from the MIT Sloan School of Management in 2000. He teaches an MBA-level course at MIT titled "Analytical Sports Management."

Swings deal to grab Scola.

Swings deal with Blazers to trade Batum for Greene and Dorsey.

Ups Greene's stock in Summer League and then trades him for Artest.

Convinces Barry to sign instead of the Spurs.

This guy is a scary genius. I don't know who's better, him or the Blazer's GM Kevin Pritchard.

[leemajors]

Daryl Morey ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Morey ) is running rings around our front office.

His hiring follows the recent Moneyball trend of moving away from scouting in favor of more statistical-based analysis. Several baseball teams have hired executives with non-traditional baseball backgrounds, but the Rockets are the first NBA team to hire a general manager in this vein.

Morey earned a BS in computer science from Northwestern University, and an MBA from the MIT Sloan School of Management in 2000. He teaches an MBA-level course at MIT titled "Analytical Sports Management."

Swings deal to grab Scola.

Swings deal with Blazers to trade Batum for Greene and Dorsey.

Ups Greene's stock in Summer League and then trades him for Artest.

Convinces Barry to sign instead of the Spurs.

This guy is a scary genius. I don't know who's better, him or the Blazer's GM Kevin Pritchard.

Unless Les Alexander made him do it.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Not exactly, if we had known that Maggette wasn't available, then we would have the money to match the Rockets offer. The Rockets made Barry an offer before the Spurs knew what players were not available to them.

Knowing what you know now, doesn't it give you the creeps that when we play the Rockets, Barry is standing their beyond the 3 point arc waiting to make up pay big time when we double Yao or McGrady.

Ugh. We had the money (LLE) to match the Rockets sign Barry even when we thought we could get Maggette (with the MLE). The Spurs didn't want him back, they had already decided to get younger on the perimeter at that point.

[VaSpursFan]

Daryl Morey ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Morey ) is running rings around our front office.

His hiring follows the recent Moneyball trend of moving away from scouting in favor of more statistical-based analysis. Several baseball teams have hired executives with non-traditional baseball backgrounds, but the Rockets are the first NBA team to hire a general manager in this vein.

Morey earned a BS in computer science from Northwestern University, and an MBA from the MIT Sloan School of Management in 2000. He teaches an MBA-level course at MIT titled "Analytical Sports Management."

Swings deal to grab Scola.

Swings deal with Blazers to trade Batum for Greene and Dorsey.

Ups Greene's stock in Summer League and then trades him for Artest.

Convinces Barry to sign instead of the Spurs.

This guy is a scary genius. I don't know who's better, him or the Blazer's GM Kevin Pritchard.

don't believe the hype. houston still flames out in the playoffs. pritchard is the true genius and the better talent evaluator.

[TheMadHatter]

Well maybe if the Spurs stopped giving the Rockets free head we wouldn't have to worry about this shit. Let Scola go over there for free, let Barry walk, etc......

[robbie380]

To be honest, if Van Gundy was the coach i'd be a bit more concerned.

if van gundy was coach we wouldn't be able to have artest on the team. bonzi is a fairy princess compared to artest. :lol

[ambchang]

T-Mac and Yao already struggled with complimenting each other on offense together because both needs to ball to be effective, and now they added Ron Artest, who is another play who dominates the ball. Add to that Ron Artest is most effective posting up, which will take the ball away from Yao further. I don't see how the offense of the Rockets improved that much.

On defense, Artest can lock down anybody, from 1 to 5, and the Rockets are going to be scary.

On chemistry, jury still out, while Artest is crazy, he does like playing for Adelman, but I am not sure whether he would be whining for the ball after a little while.

[wildbill2u]

I already want the Rockets to play the Lakers in the playoffs. Artest and Battier to throw at Kobe is a pretty nice combo ... even though Battier's a vastly overrated defender.

Houston's FO is proving it's willing to think outside the box and go for the risky long ball deal. They made a nice move with the Batum move in the draft and now this.

I think they might now trade Battier for a point guard since he > Artest in player skills and plays the same position.

If you're a Houston fan, you gotta be excited about the new FO attitude to go for it.

[robbie380]

don't believe the hype. houston still flames out in the playoffs. pritchard is the true genius and the better talent evaluator.

so do you think morey has even made any good moves?

[TheMadHatter]

Defensively the Rockets will be scary good. They'll be able to handle the league's best perimeter players for a full 48 minutes with a Battier/Artest rotation. Their frontcourt is still a little weak outside of Yao......Scola is undersized and it appears Landry might leave. Dikembe is also getting extremely old, who knows what he'll be able to give.

If healthy they should be a top WC team. Of course that's the catch, IF HEALTHY.

[Marcus Bryant]

Even MIT can't get the Rockets out of the 1st round.

[SenorSpur]

Between Yao's ankles, Tracy's back and heart (or lack thereof), and Ron-Ron's head, let's see where all this goes before we prematurely anoint them as the top seed in the West.

[DPG21920]

The Rockets, even with all of their health issues still won 55 games last. If this deal goes through, there is absolutely no way this team gets worse.

[Findog]

^^ Spurs are done.

Lakers in 6 over the Celtics!

[Findog]

Between Yao's ankles, Tracy's back and heart (or lack thereof), and Ron-Ron's head, let's see where all this goes before we prematurely anoint them as the top seed in the West.

Great team on paper. Difference between them and Boston is that Garnett, Pierce and Allen all had a history of consistent production. Yao and McGrady can't be counted on to play 70+ games, and Artest is a wild card. Their potential is sky high though...

[LocosPorJuana]

yao's ankles? His first casualty was a toe nail infection. The second, friendly fire from chuck hayes to the knee, and he came back playing great in the utah series. The roster was just crap.
And finally last season...A minor stress fracture that they caught before it became something serious. Yao has missed 90 games in his entire career, Oden has already missed 82. =/ It's all about timing.

[SenorSpur]

yao's ankles? His first casualty was a toe nail infection. The second, friendly fire from chuck hayes to the knee, and he came back playing great in the utah series. The roster was just crap.
And finally last season...A minor stress fracture that they caught before it became something serious. Yao has missed 90 games in his entire career, Oden has already missed 82. =/ It's all about timing.

Every NBA GM, fan and pundit is quick to look for a particular "home run" move that will potentially put their team at or over the top. The Pistons 2004 addition of Sheed and last summer moves by the Celtics have only exacerbate this particular strategy. The reality is this strategy is seldom successful.

As for this latest move by the Rockets, health has been a perennial issue for this team. Team chemistry will be something to watch also. Let's wait and see how this plays out.

[Findog]

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-33-109/A-Rocket-Test-for-Ron-Artest.html

By going for draft picks and the expiring contract of Jackson they're sticking with their long-term strategy of good young players until they can be major players in the 2010 free agent market. That summer they can have Beno Udrih, Kevin Martin, Spencer Hawes, Jason Thompson, Quincy Douby, Greene and three more draft picks under contract, plus some $25 million-plus in salary cap room.

Anyone want to argue with that? I didn't think so ...

Now, what about Houston? They get someone who is often a candidate to be an elite NBA player, without giving up a ton. And if you squint a little, they start to look a little like the champion Celtics, in that they have re-tooled to unite three big names on a team that can play some defense.

ESPN's John Hollinger makes what is, to me, the key point in this Ron Artest trade from Houston's perspective:

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, there's The Window issue. Look, Houston's time is now, and when I say now I mean right now. Among the starters, McGrady is a very old 29, Yao is 28, Battier is 30 and Alston is 32; behind them, presumptive sixth man Luis Scola is 28, Head is 25 and Barry is 36.

With McGrady and Yao becoming increasingly brittle, it's incumbent on the Rockets to do whatever they can to contend for a title while their two stars are still capable of reaching the mountaintop.

By themselves that wasn't possible, as the past two seasons showed. With a third star and a team-oriented, defensive-minded squad around them, however, things start looking awfully interesting ... not to mention awfully similar to the reigning champions in Boston. It's a roll of the dice, sure, but it's a calculated risk with limited downside. Given the cards Houston had to play, it's a tremendous move.

The Rockets had to do something!

If I'm a Rockets fan, however, I would not yet clear shelf space for the trophies. Ron Artest, to me, has a lot to prove before I believe he can be a key part of a title team. His career arc reminds me a little bit of Zach Randolph, in this regard: as a hungry young player, he was one of the feistiest over achievers in role player history. As the centerpiece of a team, he has looked a little bigger, a little slower, and significantly less hungry ... except when it's time to shoot.

What's more, as the centerpiece of a team, he has done all that much winning.

It is written in stone that Ron Artest is a great defender. That's his brand. But if you actually watch him play you'll see that it has not always been true lately. Great defense requires constant effort, and Ron Artest has not, of late, been the king of constant effort. To my eye, he has been furious only in spurts, while at other times he has looked almost whimsical.

The Artest stories that bothered me the most were those of him blowing off play calls to create his own tough shots outside of the offense. He was willing to leave one of the most efficient scorers in the NBA, Kevin Martin, standing out there without the ball. Can we be sure that he wouldn't do the same to Tracy McGrady or Yao Ming?

And the traditional notion of the third scorer is someone who will punish defenses for double-teaming the first two scorers. The simplest way to do that is to be able to hit open jumpshots, like all of the Celtics' big three can do.

According to Synergy Sports statistics, Ron Artest's catch-and-shoot offense is only average. His 3-point shooting could save him there, but shooting two-pointers while unguarded is not his thing. He's a guy who is at his best going to the hoop one way or another, or using the ball to create something either on the break, in the pick and roll, or one-on-one.

But all that takes time with the ball, and when Artest has the ball, Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady are probably not doing what they do best.

Maybe I'm being too pessimistic. Maybe the fact that he's on a new high-quality team, playing for his favorite NBA coach, and in a contract year will bring out the best in Ron Artest. If Artest can bring team-oriented, high-energy play every night, then this move will look brilliant. But that is, in my mind, a big if.

[robbie380]

Health has been a perennial issue for this team. Team chemistry will be something to watch also. Let's wait and see how this plays out.

i don't think chemistry will be an issue at all. artest loves adelman and he has stated he likes the city of houston. hell the guy was willing to pay part of adelman's salary if the kings could have retained him. i don't think chemistry on the court will be an issue. yeah ron ron is prone to bad shot selection but he showed himself to be a willing passer when he played under adelman before. even if there are struggles integrating ron ron into the offense they will be more than made up for by his additions to the rockets defense. with artest the rockets have a defensive powerhouse that will rival boston of last year and i don't see him having any trouble integrating defensively.

...health on the other hand will be a major issue :pctoss

[Sissiborgo]

Finally they get some defense and some guy that can porbabily stay fit and healty!...

[xtremesteven33]

i wonder how everyone was here when the Nuggets first got the lineup of.

PG-Blake
SG-Iverson
SF-Anthony
PF-K Martin
C-Camby

haha we know what happened with that team

[Sandman52]

Artest (his agent?) is actually very smart here. He does not opt out and maintains a salary that he would not see on the open market. Now he can whine about being with the lowly Kings and still get the big money.
Look at what's happening in the NBA. Big name stars are re-signing with their teams (no matter how bad the teams are) for money that they cannot get any where else. Then they can complain and force their teams to trade them to a contender. J. O'Neal, Kidd, R. Allen, and KG are examples. Michael Redd is another as he is pushing to go to Cleveland to play with Lebron when he had the chance to sign with them (for less money) a couple years back. They all had the chance to sign with a contender, but for less money and years.

Artest is just positioning himself for a trade.... probly to the Lakers for Odom's contract and a young guy. That's cunning like a fox.

Hmm....

[stipendlax]

The Rockets just got way better. Regardless of your stance is on Artest, you have to admit the guy can ball. For Houston to give up what they did and get such talent in return is amazing.

IF healthy, this team will be a force to be reckoned with.

If I were a Spurs fan, I would not be pleased. You're standing pat, while the rest of the WC is getting better.

Make a move, folks.

[DPG21920]

i wonder how everyone was here when the Nuggets first got the lineup of.

PG-Blake
SG-Iverson
SF-Anthony
PF-K Martin
C-Camby

haha we know what happened with that team

Huge difference with the Rockets squad: they defend and have a dominant big man.

[DPG21920]

The Rockets just got way better. Regardless of your stance is on Artest, you have to admit the guy can ball. For Houston to give up what they did and get such talent in return is amazing.

IF healthy, this team will be a force to be reckoned with.

If I were a Spurs fan, I would not be pleased. You're standing pat, while the rest of the WC is getting better.

Make a move, folks.

why would us as spurs fans not be pleased? because the rockets made a trade? the spurs are worried about the spurs and thats it. to say the spurs are standing pat is just ignorant, and you are feeling all high and mighty because you got a very good player. Congrats, but it is a long season.

[stipendlax]

why would us as spurs fans not be pleased? because the rockets made a trade? the spurs are worried about the spurs and thats it. to say the spurs are standing pat is just ignorant, and you are feeling all high and mighty because you got a very good player. Congrats, but it is a long season.


Ignorant? I'm simply stating the facts... and facts are that the rest of the WC is getting better while the Spurs are standing pat. Kurt Thomas, really? You think that's going to allow you to keep pace? Good luck. If I were a Spurs fan, I would certainly not be pleased... but then again, your statement that the Spurs are worried about the Spurs is a good enough excuse.

If the Spurs, Lakers, Mavrecks, Hornets, or any other WC team made such a trade while the Rockets stood still and did nothing, I would certainly NOT be pleased.

Oh, and I'm certainly not feeling 'high and mighty'. This looks great on paper, but I am a realist. I will not make any declarations or predictions until I see it with my own two eyes.

Great acquisition, but let's wait and see. A lot of things have to go right. For one, staying healthy.

[ss1986v2]

Ignorant? I'm simply stating the facts... and facts are that the rest of the WC is getting better while the Spurs are standing pat. Kurt Thomas, really? You think that's going to allow you to keep pace?
ok then, who should have the spurs signed instead? who was/is available and it better than KT?

[DPG21920]

Ignorant? I'm simply stating the facts... and facts are that the rest of the WC is getting better while the Spurs are standing pat. Kurt Thomas, really? You think that's going to allow you to keep pace? Good luck. If I were a Spurs fan, I would certainly not be pleased... but then again, your statement that the Spurs are worried about the Spurs is a good enough excuse.

If the Spurs, Lakers, Mavrecks, Hornets, or any other WC team made such a trade while the Rockets stood still and did nothing, I would certainly NOT be pleased.

Oh, and I'm certainly not feeling 'high and mighty'. This looks great on paper, but I am a realist. I will not make any declarations or predictions until I see it with my own two eyes.

Great acquisition, but let's wait and see. A lot of things have to go right. For one, staying healthy.

You conveniently left out the Roger Mason signing along with the drafting the Spurs did. Just because we do not trade our draft picks away (twice) does not mean the Spurs are doing nothing. Rockets making a nice move to get Artest does not = the Spurs standing still. Ignorant.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Have the details been released about who exactly is being traded?

I was under the impression that the Kings were looking to move Kenny Thomas' contract, too, if they were to trade Artest. That would translate into quite a bit of player movement for both teams should that occur.

I would doubt that Houston would want that deal, except for the fact that Thomas played pretty well in Adelman's system when RA was coaching the Kings.

[mountainballer]

btw. there are now rumors in Bulls land, that now the Kings and Bulls are talking about a trade of Brad Miller for Nocioni+Simmons.
(http://www.rumorpress.net/)

[stipendlax]

ok then, who should have the spurs signed instead? who was/is available and it better than KT?

Tiago Splitter would've been nice.


You conveniently left out the Roger Mason signing along with the drafting the Spurs did. Just because we do not trade our draft picks away (twice) does not mean the Spurs are doing nothing. Rockets making a nice move to get Artest does not = the Spurs standing still. Ignorant.

Oh, right, Roger Mason... how could I have forgotten about him? My mistake. I stand correct, sir. My ignorance blinds me!

:wakeup

[stipendlax]

Have the details been released about who exactly is being traded?

I was under the impression that the Kings were looking to move Kenny Thomas' contract, too, if they were to trade Artest. That would translate into quite a bit of player movement for both teams should that occur.

I would doubt that Houston would want that deal, except for the fact that Thomas played pretty well in Adelman's system when RA was coaching the Kings.

If I'm not mistaken, they're suppose to include Patrick Ewing Jr., Sean Singletary, and perhaps another player or two to make the salary match.

Kings get Jackson, 2009 1st round pick, Greene, and $1 million cash.

[coopdogg3]

The Rockets just got way better. Regardless of your stance is on Artest, you have to admit the guy can ball. For Houston to give up what they did and get such talent in return is amazing.

IF healthy, this team will be a force to be reckoned with.

If I were a Spurs fan, I would not be pleased. You're standing pat, while the rest of the WC is getting better.

Make a move, folks.

The Lakers have not made a move. They lost Turiaf. They're getting Bynum back from injury, but that's not making a move.

The Jazz have not made a move, they've merely retained their players.

The Hornets added Posey.

I think Golden State, Denver, and LA Clippers all took a step back, maybe they've stood pat - at best.

The rest of the WC are not making moves. The only legitimate additions have been with New Orleans and Houston.

Congrats, I'm not about to piss on the Artest trade and call it rain. But the Spurs have made moves.

[coopdogg3]

Tiago Splitter would've been nice.



Oh, right, Roger Mason... how could I have forgotten about him? My mistake. I stand correct, sir. My ignorance blinds me!

:wakeup

Tiago Splitter was outside their control. Even an ignorant Rockets fan can see that. The Spurs were locked into a 1st round salary, absolutely nothing they could have done about that.

And Roger Mason is an addition, wake up.

[ceperez]

Rockets best 5 (the 5 that'll they'll use during crunch time) will likely be:

Barry - PG
McGrady - SG
Artest - SF
Scola - PF
Ming - C

Last year's playoffs showed that the only guys who could score were McGrady and Scola. Battier couldn't make a shot unless he was open. Artest and a healthy Yao Ming gives them offensive options.

What's glaring obvious though is that Artest and Battier fill the same role. Although I got to admit, with both of them in the floor it'll be a pretty sufocating defense!

[xtremesteven33]

Huge difference with the Rockets squad: they defend and have a dominant big man.



but am i right about how maybe ST got really scared or excited when this team first got put together?

Yao,T-Mac, and Artest are not going to get far. mark my words.

[DPG21920]

but am i right about how maybe ST got really scared or excited when this team first got put together?

Yao,T-Mac, and Artest are not going to get far. mark my words.

It is possible, but the fact that they won 55 games last year and made the playoffs means they will have a better chance this year. This team on paper is 10x more scary than the Nuggets roster was. Not even close.

[stipendlax]

Well, Mcgrady is the only Rocket that can pretty much create his own shot (and Scola, to a minimum). Adding Artest gives us two/three.

Battier's game has always been the open look. He rarely takes it to the rim, which is odd, because when he does, he usually finds success.

In regards to Yao, he does give us offensive options, but is a defensive liability (see: Utah Jazz)

[DPG21920]

btw. there are now rumors in Bulls land, that now the Kings and Bulls are talking about a trade of Brad Miller for Nocioni+Simmons.
(http://www.rumorpress.net/)

I guess that the Kings are good with Spencer Hawes/Shelden Williams/Mikki Moore. Nocioni is a Ron Artest light.

[stipendlax]

but am i right about how maybe ST got really scared or excited when this team first got put together?

Yao,T-Mac, and Artest are not going to get far. mark my words.

What do you consider 'not far'??

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

As much as I think Rick Adelman has his shortcomings as a coach sometimes, I also think he's probably the perfect guy to coach Artest. Barring some sort of internal strife or Ron Artest meltdown I think this trade will be good for the Rockets.

[ss1986v2]

Tiago Splitter would've been nice.

he decided to stay with tau and get paid. any other options?

[stipendlax]

he decided to stay with tau and get paid. any other options?

Michael Jordan.

Circa 1998.

Time for Pop to get in the DeLorean and fire up the flux capacitor.

[SynicFan]

Ignorant? I'm simply stating the facts... and facts are that the rest of the WC is getting better while the Spurs are standing pat. Kurt Thomas, really? You think that's going to allow you to keep pace? Good luck. If I were a Spurs fan, I would certainly not be pleased... but then again, your statement that the Spurs are worried about the Spurs is a good enough excuse.

If the Spurs, Lakers, Mavrecks, Hornets, or any other WC team made such a trade while the Rockets stood still and did nothing, I would certainly NOT be pleased.

Oh, and I'm certainly not feeling 'high and mighty'. This looks great on paper, but I am a realist. I will not make any declarations or predictions until I see it with my own two eyes.

Great acquisition, but let's wait and see. A lot of things have to go right. For one, staying healthy.


I agree. realistically, nothing has been proven...
but sure like the way it looks on paper!

GO ROCKETS!!!

[benefactor]

The Rockets were already solid defensively...and not only did they add another good defender but also a 20ppg scorer. Its all there for the Rockets now. They have depth, defense and three legit scorers. The only worries they have are chemistry and health. If Ron Ron stays a team player and TMac/Yao are healthy come playoff time the Spurs/Lakers/Hornets all need to be seriously concerned.

[Findog]

The bottom line is that if the Rockets can get 70+ games from BOTH Yao and T-Mac, and Artest is on his best behavior during a contract year, then they have as good a shot as anybody. But because that is not a lock, Rox fans shouldn't start planning a parade just yet.

[SynicFan]

Rockets best 5 (the 5 that'll they'll use during crunch time) will likely be:

Barry - PG
McGrady - SG
Artest - SF
Scola - PF
Ming - C

Last year's playoffs showed that the only guys who could score were McGrady and Scola. Battier couldn't make a shot unless he was open. Artest and a healthy Yao Ming gives them offensive options.

What's glaring obvious though is that Artest and Battier fill the same role. Although I got to admit, with both of them in the floor it'll be a pretty sufocating defense!

BRAVO!
you are truly a smart person!
your post is BITCHIN!

[Findog]

Yao played 80+ games his first three years. Now look at his last three years as he started playing 35+ minutes a game: 57, 48 and 55 games played.

McGrady has averaged around 65 games a year for the past five. And he's an old 29, he's been playing heavy minutes in this League since he was 19.

I wonder how long it will be before Artest once to be a bigger part of the offense. I know that the Rockets wanted a third scorer to complement Yao/TMac, but Artest is an inefficient ballstopper.

That said, they're a better team today. But in some ways, the same old questions and issues remain in Houston...

[DaDakota]

Yao played 80+ games his first three years. Now look at his last three years as he started playing 35+ minutes a game: 57, 48 and 55 games played.

In the first injury year he got his foot stepped on and it broke a bone....freak injury.

In the 2nd injury year he got his knee bent backwards as a Clipper player fell into him breaking a bone in his knee...another freak injury.

In this last year, he had a stress fracture - the only injury that was not the result of an accident......

He has been guilty of being unlucky more than injury prone.


McGrady has averaged around 65 games a year for the past five. And he's an old 29, he's been playing heavy minutes in this League since he was 19.

I wonder how long it will be before Artest once to be a bigger part of the offense. I know that the Rockets wanted a third scorer to complement Yao/TMac, but Artest is an inefficient ballstopper.

That said, they're a better team today. But in some ways, the same old questions and issues remain in Houston...

But now you don't have to play McGrady and Yao so many minutes, with Barry and now Artest and the talent so much improved you can rest them more in each game....keeping them healthy....sort of what Popovich does in San Antonio.

DD

[TheMadHatter]

In the first injury year he got his foot stepped on and it broke a bone....freak injury.

In the 2nd injury year he got his knee bent backwards as a Clipper player fell into him breaking a bone in his knee...another freak injury.

In this last year, he had a stress fracture - the only injury that was not the result of an accident......

He has been guilty of being unlucky more than injury prone.



But now you don't have to play McGrady and Yao so many minutes, with Barry and now Artest and the talent so much improved you can rest them more in each game....keeping them healthy....sort of what Popovich does in San Antonio.

DD

Findog's point is that if either T-Mac or Yao go down again the Rockets are still screwed. Same questions are still there and will be there until the Rockets break up that duo.

[DPG21920]

Findog's point is that if either T-Mac or Yao go down again the Rockets are still screwed. Same questions are still there and will be there until the Rockets break up that duo.

They are not screwed. Yao was down last year and they still went to game 6. It is like having Bynum go down and then you get to replace him with Pau. If T-mac goes down, you get to put a player that is capable of taking over on the floor that they did not have before.

If Manu is hurt or can not play, the Spurs replace him with?

[ceperez]

McGrady - PG - 6'8" ---------------- 6'2" Parker
Artest - SG - 6'7" ---------------- 6'6" Ginobili
Battier - SF - 6'8" --versus-- 6'7" Bowen
Scola - PF - 6'9" ----------------- 6'9" Thomas
Ming - C - 7'6" ----------------- 6'11" Duncan

Serious height disparity!!

[1Parker1]

Rockets defense which was already great, just got even better. And on top of that, they finally got that 3rd scoring option they needed. This was a perfect trade for the Rockets.

All those people stating they'll wait and see if Houston can stay healthy all season long...well u saw what NO did last year when they were all finally able to get healthy.

[TheMadHatter]

Gotta walk the walk now.

BOS did with their trade, LAL did with their trade, we'll see if HOU can.

[Findog]

All those people stating they'll wait and see if Houston can stay healthy all season long...well u saw what NO did last year when they were all finally able to get healthy.

Yao has Bill Walton feet, so there is always going to be fragility issues with him...

I like this move for the Rockets, there's no downside really. Jackson was not in their future plans, Green was a ways off from contributing to a veteran team that wants to win now. The #1 pick won't be that valuable if Houston is in the playoffs, and if Artest can't blend in with the team, he's off their books next summer.

[TheMadHatter]

That's the biggest thing for the Rockets. There is absolutely no downside to this trade from their end. If Artest doesn't work out he's off the books next off-season.

[Harry Callahan]

This was a good trade for Houston, giving up very little for a talented nut job. I forgot all the domestic violence issues that Artest has had even in the last few years. I am working in Houston this week and the local sports station am 790 went through his history i.n some detail.

Ron-Ron likes to slap around his wife/girlfriend, so he is a certified scumbag.

This does not prevent him from being a good player in Houston, and the Rockets can be very good IF HEALTHY. That is a big if.

I wonder what Brent and Erin Barry think about having someone like Artest as a Rocket teammate, given their terrific efforts to curb domestic violence.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

McGrady - PG - 6'8" ---------------- 6'2" Parker
Artest - SG - 6'7" ---------------- 6'6" Ginobili
Battier - SF - 6'8" --versus-- 6'7" Bowen
Scola - PF - 6'9" ----------------- 6'9" Thomas
Ming - C - 7'6" ----------------- 6'11" Duncan

Serious height disparity!!

lolz if you think McGrady will be playing point.

[screw_ston713]

Name 1 team in the league that dosnt worry about the Health factor. Didnt brand just miss half a season also arenas. Rockets are no different than any team. Could spurs win 55 games if tim duncan missed 33 games and tony parker missed 14? would they be 2 games shy of being the best in the west with their best player missing? Well we know Rockets can. Knock us for not getting out of the 1st round, but u cant question Rockets heart. Coming back from the allstar break 10th seed, we won like 7 in a row and didnt even move up in the standings. The rockets showed will and determination. They coulda easily tanked the season.

[nil.ball]

lolz if you think McGrady will be playing point.

lolz sadly we had watched way too many cases when that happened. sadly...

[screw_ston713]

I expect fans to disect and find every little skeleton artest has to diminish this trade. Whenever you can improve a roster that won 55 games without even moving any major pieces you can only get better.

[wildbill2u]

I don't understand fans who dismiss the Rockets because of the past injury record. The Spurs also have had a couple of players who had to play at less than their best because of injuries, (Tim Duncan a couple of years ago and Manu Horry and Barry were not up to par last year.)

You can't factor in health problems with precision, but talent is always a factor when evaluating teams. Houston has made a bold move that may pay off.

[xtremesteven33]

I don't understand fans who dismiss the Rockets because of the past injury record. The Spurs also have had a couple of players who had to play at less than their best because of injuries, (Tim Duncan a couple of years ago and Manu Horry and Barry were not up to par last year.)

You can't factor in health problems with precision, but talent is always a factor when evaluating teams. Houston has made a bold move that may pay off.


id be more scared if he landed with someone like the Lakers or Hornets. a team that is ONE player away from getting over the hump. not the Rockets. they havent proven anything but mediocrity. yea sure maybe injuries are the main reason but they have been healthy but have still failed to get past the first round. there is obviously a deeper problem with this Yao/McGrady that Artest will not solve. thats why im not scared. sure they will probably have the top 3 seed, but the playoffs is what matters and none of them have proven they can win.

[Spurs Brazil]

From the edge, Artest gives Rockets a missing element
By J.A. Adande
ESPN.com
(Archive)
Updated: July 30, 2008
Comment
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Ron Artest to the Rockets? All I can do is imagine Houston general manager Daryl Morey listening to Seal on his iPod: "But we're never gonna survive unless ... We get a little crazy."



Yep, the Rockets just got nuts. And that's a good thing. Nice guys don't get past the first round of the playoffs.

Rocky Widner/Getty Images

No doubt, Ron Artest brings a line-crossing resume to the Rockets.
Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming, and Shane Battier are all good players and fine people. But not one of them strikes fear in an opponent. Thanks to a trade with Sacramento, the Rockets have added Artest, someone who goes back and forth across that mythical line like he's playing hopscotch. You really, really don't want to mess with the Rockets now. That goes for opposing fans, as well.



Go ahead and group the Rockets with the Hornets and Spurs -- not just because they're in the same division, but because they can legitimately challenge the Lakers for their Western Conference crown.



As one Western Conference scout said when asked about the trade, "Wow. They just moved up, for sure. They were missing that element, that danger, that toughness, that [expletive]. And now they have it."



Yes, Artest is a risk. When the Indiana Pacers were ascending in the East, Artest single-handedly caused the avalanche that wiped them off the mountain. There's the history of his problems off the court and in the stands. And you never know where basketball ranks on his priority list at any given moment.



But the Rockets had to do something like this. How many consecutive first-round losses could they stand? (Um, six, apparently.)



It's as safe a play as any team could make with Artest involved. He already has a built-in comfort zone in coach Rick Adelman, whom he thought so highly of when they were in Sacramento together that he volunteered to give up his salary if it would keep Adelman around.



And all it cost them was reserve Bobby Jackson, first-round pick Donte Greene and next year's first-round pick.



At first glance it seems as if the Kings gave up on Artest too easily, that his value was sliding like the real-estate market and they were so afraid they wouldn't get anything back before he left as a free agent that they dumped him to the first reasonable bid. Also, they didn't succeed in dumping the two years and $16.5 million remaining on Kenny Thomas' contract. But after hearing it explained to me by a source familiar with Sacramento's thinking, it makes sense.



They weren't going to win a championship with Artest. They weren't going to win a championship with whatever key player they got for Artest. By going for draft picks and the expiring contract of Jackson, they're sticking with their long-term strategy of good young players until they can be major players in the 2010 free-agent market. That summer they can have Beno Udrih, Kevin Martin, Spencer Hawes, Jason Thompson, Quincy Douby, Greene and three more draft picks under contract, plus some $25 million-plus in salary-cap room.



The only question is whether the Sacramento fans, who no longer dole out unconditional love for the team and don't fill the stands every night anymore, will be patient enough to wait two years. But if Knicks fans can hold on to their season tickets and keep showing up amid all of the other options in New York, then Sacramento ought to be able to hold on to its fan base until help arrives.



Back to the real focus of this trade: the Rockets and what it means for them right now. There was some speculation in NBA circles that McGrady would get traded this summer. Instead, the Rockets went the other way. They're building around McGrady, even if the addition might seem to be an odd fit, like the new bowl dropped between the old columns of Chicago's Soldier Field.



This doesn't come to mind first when you think of Artest, but he's most valuable to the Rockets for his offense. The Rockets were fine defensively. They had the fourth-best scoring defense in the league, with Battier around to provide Artest-level perimeter defense without all of the suspensions.



Artest adds another 20-point scorer to take the load off McGrady's chronically injured back and help an offense that ranked 22nd in the NBA in 2007-08.



Much more than that, he gives the Rockets an edge, in addition to making them one of the most fascinating teams in the league. As long as they stick cameras in the locker rooms to hear the coaches' halftime speeches for national TV games, they might as well leave them up to capture Artest, Yao and T-Mac. They don't even need microphones; I just want to watch them interact. Does either Yao or T-Mac have the temperament to establish himself as the alpha male and keep the team from veering off in whatever direction Artest tugs?



It might seem as if the Rockets got antsy and made a desperate, short-term move -- remember, Artest can leave them next season -- and got too worried about the window closing, even though their two superstars are both under 30. The truth is, they were running out of time, spinning their wheels and going nowhere. There's no guarantee Yao will be the long-term solution; he hasn't played in more than 57 games in any of the past three seasons, and a summer of playing for China's national team won't make him any fresher for next season. And McGrady never has played in 80 games in a season.



Thanks to Artest, it's possible to imagine a new numerical benchmark for both T-Mac and Yao: at least eight games in the playoffs.

J.A. Adande joined ESPN.com as an NBA columnist in August 2007 after 10 years with the Los Angeles Times. Click here to e-mail J.A.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=artestdeal2-080730

[TheMadHatter]

Wow 6 consecutive 1st round losses? How did this go unnoticed? Fuck that is goddamn embarrassing.

[Man of Steel]

Houston Front Office...

Brilliant

[Spurs Brazil]

Artest was unmistakably giddy in the early hours of Wednesday morning in a phone conversation with ESPN.com as he discussed his forthcoming trade to the Houston Rockets.

"I'll be a kid in a candy store," Artest said. "I'll be a kid in a store with a lot of candy. I'm going to dance with the stars."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3510261

[Oh, Gee!!]

It just might be crazy enough to work

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

If only Jackson could've Devean Georged the deal.

[Killakobe81]

No way Mcgrady can gaurd tony Parker!!! LOL and who would gaurd duncan with that lineup?! (ceparker) Yao?! LMAO ...If i were spurs i would run the Rockets with yao in the lineup ...Parker is better than alston Houston's strength is halfcourt D they are a better matchup for Lakers and Suns (on paper) because Yao has a true center to gaurd ...

[screw_ston713]

id be more scared if he landed with someone like the Lakers or Hornets. .
Before lakers landed gasol were not they also a 1st round exit playoff team losing twice to phx and a year prior to that not even making the playoffs. Lets talk about those hornets, the same hornets who had a gang of injuries and not even sniffing the post season last year. Its all good atleast my beloved rox see theres a problem we try to address it instead of being in denial. Before Kg Paul and ray allen teamed up in boston how successful had they been in the playoffs? Kg had only advanced 1nce in his career and eliminated in the 1st round every after that until twolves wasnt even a playoff team.

[KB24 MVP]

well anyways welcome Rockets 2 contending mode with us but only if u guys manage 2 stay healthy u might make some noise this seasen

[screw_ston713]

Boston celtics only won 25 total games prior to landing the big 3, what was their playoff record before winning the championship? where is the notion u have to advance deep into the post season before winning the crown. Didnt those I45 boys get all the way to the finals only to win 60 games the following year and get bounced in the 1st round by gsw and again to n.o in only 5 games.

[Tmac&Luther]

No way Mcgrady can gaurd tony Parker!!! LOL and who would gaurd duncan with that lineup?! (ceparker) Yao?! LMAO ...If i were spurs i would run the Rockets with yao in the lineup ...Parker is better than alston Houston's strength is halfcourt D they are a better matchup for Lakers and Suns (on paper) because Yao has a true center to gaurd ...

Houston's help defense would be able to keep Parker out of the paint and Yao doesn't have a problem guarding Duncan down low, his length alone gives Duncan trouble. (if Duncan wants to try to pull Yao away from the basket we can rotate Artest to him and Chuck Hayes has also done a decent job on Duncan as well. On defense (especially with the addition of Artest) alot of our defenders are interchangable...with players that have size and are versatile defenders...it's the secrect to our steller team defense, we can rotate anywhere.

Who on your team is going to guard Artest, McGrady usually goes off on Bowen (his length allows him to shoot right over the top), and Yao can get his vs Duncan 1 on 1.....he always has, if your team wants to slide the double team over, Yao will just kick it to Scola or out to one of our 3 point shooters.

You act like we only have to match up to your team on defense, but you also have to match up to ours and I don't think you have the horses to do it anymore....Artest is a major matchup problem that I don't see a answer for.

[spursnatic]

That fucking sucks!! We could of offered something in that sort. I mean Bobby Jackson, Donte Greene and a first round draft pick in 2009. That is not much?:bang

[SenorSpur]

I don't understand fans who dismiss the Rockets because of the past injury record. The Spurs also have had a couple of players who had to play at less than their best because of injuries, (Tim Duncan a couple of years ago and Manu Horry and Barry were not up to par last year.)

You can't factor in health problems with precision, but talent is always a factor when evaluating teams. Houston has made a bold move that may pay off.

Then what do you call it when the team's best player (Yao) has not played in more than 57 games? Then their 2nd best player (McGrady) has missed portions of the past 2 seasons with recurring back trouble. Of course, every team has the potential risk of injury. Yet in the Rockets case, their recent history has shown that risk to be considerably higher than most playoff contenders.

[xtremesteven33]

i just dont see Artest being an answer to the problem. hes a big name and everyone gets excited. all the Rockets had to do was be healthy.

i dont see this working out too great for some reason. looks good on paper but just like yao said, lets see if they can Mesh. i dont see that happening

[DPG21920]

Contract year. Ron will be on his best behavior, revitalized and ready to play.

[GuerillaBlack]

Check these polls out: http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/poll/index?pCat=46&sCat=103

Guess who is the only state that doesn't believe TMAC will make it out of the first round?

Artest says, "WTF?!"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/DOMINATOR5/artest_throwback.jpg

[screw_ston713]

Ofcourse spurs fans will find every reason for this trade not to work. In other threads they were pushing for the spurs fo to go after artest. If its not benifitting spurs in anyway they will try their hardest to deminish a player or trade. While they laugh at the rockets and downplay every free agent signing and trade, they are getting older and older every yr not realizing Rockets are on the brink of being that texas team representing the Western Conf:ihit

[duncan228]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8394830

Rockets take a good risk on bad boy Artest
by Charley Rosen

How much will the pending trade of Ron Artest alter the balance of power in the Western Conference? Not quite as much as might be expected.

Here are the particulars:

Sacramento will get Bobby Jackson, a 35-year-old warhorse whose career is in marked decline. Since he's also increasingly susceptible to injuries, Jackson figures to be more of a sparsely used backup and a positive force in the locker room than a vital cog in the Kings game plan.

Also coming to the Kings will be Donte' Greene, a 6-11, 226-pound small forward who was the 28th selection in the most recent draft -- a shooter and a finesse guy. At best, the rookie might turn out to be Kevin Durant-lite. At worst, he could be the second coming of Brad Sellers.

Sacramento will also receive the Rockets' first-round pick in next spring's draft, which will most likely be a late selection. In other words, another crapshoot.

Net gain for the Kings: Not much right now, but grounds for at least a modicum of hope in the future.

Artest will likewise bring plenty of uncertainty to Houston.

The bet here is that Elston Turner, the Rockets chief assistant, will have the task of trying to control Do-Ron-Ron. And given Turner's NBA experience (505 games from 1981-89 with Dallas, Denver, and Chicago), as well as ET's inherent toughness, savvy, and dignity, the odds are that Artest will behave himself -- at least for a while.

If Artest can indeed toe the line, what exactly will the Rockets be getting?

An accomplished, and extremely physical, defender who can hound small forwards, many power forwards, as well as an occasional center and shooting guard.

In other words, someone who can battle on even terms with many of the high-powered scorers in the West. For example, expect Artest to give Dirk Nowitzki a recurring headache and to also intimidate Lamar Odom. Artest won't yield much ground to Tim Duncan either.

Artest is also an effective post-up scorer, a powerful driver, an adequate passer, and an erratic, but dangerous, 3-point shooter.

To close out games, Rick Adelman will probably have Artest on the floor along with Yao Ming, Tracy McGrady, Shane Battier, and Rafer Alston. This would be a formidable lineup at both ends of the court.

However, even if Artest can learn to mind his manners, the Rockets will still face some problems. Since Yao and McGrady are volume scorers, and Alston tends to be shot-happy, how will Artest get sufficient ball-time to scratch his itchy hands?

Moreover, Battier is the ultimate team player who will stay out of the spotlight and do more than his share of off-the-ball dirty work. Yao is a mite tougher than he used to be yet is still a gentle giant. Alston, who only shot 39 percent last year, is Houston's Mister Bad Shot. And T-Mac is not-so-secretly plagued by self-doubts -- rightly so since there's not enough starch in his game.

All of which indicates that Artest could easily impose his fractious, impulsive, and confrontational personality on the team.

Also, who might be the Rockets go-to scorer with a game on the line?

Historically, Artest has been unreliable in the clutch, T-Mac tends toward invisibility, and Alston can be shaky. That leaves Yao, a wonderful gut-time point-maker with an unfortunate penchant for committing turnovers.

Net gain for the Rockets: Potentially a very high upside, but plenty of important concerns that will not be so easily resolved. Still, bringing in the NBA's resident Bad Boy is a risk well worth taking.

[ShoogarBear]

Well maybe if the Spurs stopped giving the Rockets free head we wouldn't have to worry about this shit. Let Scola go over there for free, let Barry walk, etc......

It's almost like they have a mole on their payroll working for another team . . .

http://wvutoday.wvu.edu/images/2006/1775/44bf7e1fbaf37_md.jpg

[TheMadHatter]

It's almost like they have a mole on their payroll working for another team . . .

http://wvutoday.wvu.edu/images/2006/1775/44bf7e1fbaf37_md.jpg

You do realize Jerry West was NOT the GM of the Grizzlies when the trade went down right? In fact he was no longer associated with the franchise in any way whatsoever.

And MEM got what they wanted out of the trade, they cleared a ton of caproom to rebuild for the future. Looks like they are started on the right path with Mayo, Gay, Warrick, Gasol (Marc), etc.

Scola was basically hand wrapped to the Rockets for reasons I still don't understand. It's about as idiotic a move as you could possibly make as a franchise to let a player like that go to a direct rival. Absolute stupidity.

[milkyway21]

same division Ron Artest could be a factor to Houston:(
I was hoping he'd sign up with an East team.

The Rockets look like an All-Star team now.

with Manu opting to play in the Olympics, (he's the MVP of Argentina team, maybe he's set to get battered there before the next season begins), hey guys aside from the name Tim Duncan, and Tony Parker, I don't want to sound pessimistic for you people, but I'd like to ask , is there a REASON for us international fans TO BELIEVE that the 2008-09 Spurs is ready to win another championship next year?

[ShoogarBear]

You do realize Jerry West was NOT the GM of the Grizzlies when the trade went down right? In fact he was no longer associated with the franchise in any way whatsoever.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Roxsfan]

Don't forget Adelman.....he's stupid.

are you retarded:lmao

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

It's almost like they have a mole on their payroll working for another team . . .

http://wvutoday.wvu.edu/images/2006/1775/44bf7e1fbaf37_md.jpg

:lmao

[Kai]

Then what do you call it when the team's best player (Yao) has not played in more than 57 games? Then their 2nd best player (McGrady) has missed portions of the past 2 seasons with recurring back trouble. Of course, every team has the potential risk of injury. Yet in the Rockets case, their recent history has shown that risk to be considerably higher than most playoff contenders.

Yao Played at least 80 games in his first 3 years. The next year his foot was smashed by another player. Do you think Tim Duncan's foot would have withstood that blow? Does he have indestructible feet? No, it was a freak accident that could happen to anyone.

The next year, Yao was under the basket while a Clipper player slammed directly into Yao's knee while falling down. Could Tim Duncan Teleport out of that impending contact? could he see the player coming at his knee while looking up for the rebound? No. Another freak accident that could happen to anyone.

This past year is the only exception, sort of. Mother F***ing Yi Jianlian' s alien-looking ass had to step directly where Yao stepped a split second later. This caused a stress fracture that got continually worse especially since Yao weighs so much.

These injuries could happen to anyone and are not the same re-occurring injury. Adrian Peterson seemed to get hurt every year in college from a different injury. No one's talking about him "probably" getting injured nowadays.

T-Mac had Back problems for a couple of years, but a year and a half ago, he started a new treatment method that he said completely cured him. He suggested the treatment to other players such as Bonzi and they agreed that the treatment does wonders. He hasn't had any pain in his back since.

He DID NOT have back problems this year, it was a knee sprain that was only supposed to keep him out a few games, but he came back early and re-injured it.

[Pucho!!!]

Yao Played at least 80 games in his first 3 years. The next year his foot was smashed by another player. Do you think Tim Duncan's foot would have withstood that blow? Does he have indestructible feet? No, it was a freak accident that could happen to anyone.

The next year, Yao was under the basket while a Clipper player slammed directly into Yao's knee while falling down. Could Tim Duncan Teleport out of that impending contact? could he see the player coming at his knee while looking up for the rebound? No. Another freak accident that could happen to anyone.

This past year is the only exception, sort of. Mother F***ing Yi Jianlian' s alien-looking ass had to step directly where Yao stepped a split second later. This caused a stress fracture that got continually worse especially since Yao weighs so much.

These injuries could happen to anyone and are not the same re-occurring injury. Adrian Peterson seemed to get hurt every year in college from a different injury. No one's talking about him "probably" getting injured nowadays.

T-Mac had Back problems for a couple of years, but a year and a half ago, he started a new treatment method that he said completely cured him. He suggested the treatment to other players such as Bonzi and they agreed that the treatment does wonders. He hasn't had any pain in his back since.

He DID NOT have back problems this year, it was a knee sprain that was only supposed to keep him out a few games, but he came back early and re-injured it.

Don't forget the shoulder injury, admit it tmac is injury prone

[robbie380]

Don't forget the shoulder injury, admit it tmac is injury prone

:wow:wow where did this revelation come from? t-mac is not injury prone!

[Darthkiller]

this is even more lopsided than the gasol kawme deal.

[Indazone]

Wow an Artest Thread turned into an argument over Yao and T-Mac's injuries. Good Job :smchode:

[nil.ball]

Wow an Artest Thread turned into an argument over Yao and T-Mac's injuries. Good Job :smchode:

Surprise surprise, until we win the next :lobt2:, it will always be. Haters will be haters.

[Tmac&Luther]

id be more scared if he landed with someone like the Lakers or Hornets. a team that is ONE player away from getting over the hump. not the Rockets.

Give me a damn break, just because y'all let NOLA punk y'all doesn't mean they are one player away.


yea sure maybe injuries are the main reason but they have been healthy but have still failed to get past the first round. there is obviously a deeper problem with this Yao/McGrady that Artest will not solve. thats why im not scared.

When Yao and Tmac were healthy, they didn't have Scola or Landry and were going into playoff games where only 4 players scored points (that's just two besides Tmac and Yao) So please get off that crap. :rolleyes This team is much more stacked and talented than those previous teams.

[Harry Callahan]

If Ming, McGrady, and the crazy guy are healthy in the Spring, Houston can go far (or at least past the first round).

The Rockets have not won a playoff series in forever and they want to win now. Six one and dones in a row can get tiresome.

I find it impressive that the only time in the last 11 years the Spurs have not won at least one playoff series was in 2000 when Duncan had his knee problem.

Its win in the PLAYOFFS this year or that roster gets blown up in Houston.

[DPG21920]

Give me a damn break, just because y'all let NOLA punk y'all doesn't mean they are one player away.



When Yao and Tmac were healthy, they didn't have Scola or Landry and were going into playoff games where only 4 players scored points (that's just two besides Tmac and Yao) So please get off that crap. :rolleyes This team is much more stacked and talented than those previous teams.

Did we not beat NO and go to the WC finals? How is that punking us?

[Tmac&Luther]

Did we not beat NO and go to the WC finals? How is that punking us?

I know y'all beat them, but before Horry lowered his shoulder into West's back....he was killing y'all, for most of that series NOLA was punking y'all, but SA the grizzly team that they are, pulled it out in the end. It seems SA has a weak spot against big athletic players like West or Bonzi......hopefully Artest can do the same.

[ambchang]

I know y'all beat them, but before Horry lowered his shoulder into West's back....he was killing y'all, for most of that series NOLA was punking y'all, but SA the grizzly team that they are, pulled it out in the end. It seems SA has a weak spot against big athletic players like West or Bonzi......hopefully Artest can do the same.

No kidding. In the 7 games:

SAS NOH West
Game 1 82 101 30
Game 2 84 102 10
Game 3 110 99 23
Game 4 100 80 10
Game 5 79 101 38
Game 6* 99 80 10
Game 7 91 82 20

* West had his back injury aggravated.

Two 10 point games before the back acts up, blowing the Spurs out in two games, then got blown out in two games, strong evidence to some killing.

And since when did Horry lower his shoulder into West’s back? Fact check much?

[wildbill2u]

It's crazy not to admit that Houston's trade just gave them a trio of first rate players that compare with any in the league.

Discussions of past injuries ignore Duncan's foot and Manu's reputation as El Contusion. ANY team's chances can be degraded by an injury.

Rockets have added a great lock-down defender to a club that already had great defensive stats. In addition all of their Big 3 are capable of scoring 20 ppg.

Homers here are simply whistling past the graveyard if you don't think this was a great addition to the Rockets AND another serious contender for the WC Championship.

Gonna be tougher this year than last and last year was tougher than the year before.

[Tmac&Luther]

And since when did Horry lower his shoulder into West’s back? Fact check much?

Non Spurs fans will say he lowered his shoulder into the back......Spurs fans will say he didn't, let's leave it at that and avoid a couple of pages of arguments.

[ambchang]

Non Spurs fans will say he lowered his shoulder into the back......Spurs fans will say he won't, let's leave it at that and avoid a couple of pages of arguments.

6vSibz8OyqM

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Robert-Horry-s-hard-foul-on-David-West?urn=nba,82847

It would be mighty difficult to argue that Horry lowered his shoulders.

[Tmac&Luther]

6vSibz8OyqM

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Robert-Horry-s-hard-foul-on-David-West?urn=nba,82847

It would be mighty difficult to argue that Horry lowered his shoulders.

Again......

Non Spurs fans will say he lowered his shoulder into the back......Spurs fans will say he won't, let's leave it at that and avoid a couple of pages of arguments.

[benefactor]

Again......

Non Spurs fans will say he lowered his shoulder into the back......Spurs fans will say he won't, let's leave it at that and avoid a couple of pages of arguments.
So if he stands straight up he gets run over...he just leaned in to accept the contact. Its pick setting 101. If you can't see that then you should just stop talking about basketball and take up knitting or something.

West should not have been out on the floor playing in a physical game if he was hurt anyway.

[Tmac&Luther]

So if he stands straight up he gets run over...he just leaned in to accept the contact. Its pick setting 101. If you can't see that then you should just stop talking about basketball and take up knitting or something.

West should not have been out on the floor playing in a physical game if he was hurt anyway.

Again.......

Non Spurs fans will say he lowered his shoulder into the back......Spurs fans will say he won't, let's leave it at that and avoid a couple of pages of arguments.

[Kai]

If Ming, McGrady, and the crazy guy are healthy in the Spring, Houston can go far (or at least past the first round).

The Rockets have not won a playoff series in forever and they want to win now. Six one and dones in a row can get tiresome.

I find it impressive that the only time in the last 11 years the Spurs have not won at least one playoff series was in 2000 when Duncan had his knee problem.

Its win in the PLAYOFFS this year or that roster gets blown up in Houston.

Not True. T-Mac and Yao both have contracts that end in 2010, although Yao has a player option. We could just wait until then and go after one of the big boys in James/Wade/Mello/Bosh, or rework the roster a different way, but it would be smarter to wait a year when T-Mac's huge contract comes off the books.

[GSH]

Daryl Morey ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Morey ) is running rings around our front office.

His hiring follows the recent Moneyball trend of moving away from scouting in favor of more statistical-based analysis.

This guy is a scary genius. I don't know who's better, him or the Blazer's GM Kevin Pritchard.



Wow... that's a very tough question. But I'm a big fan of statistical analysis too, so I think the best thing is to look at the numbrs. Which one of them has the most rings? :lmao

Sheeit! This is a lot different than your fantasy league, where a computer decides the outcome, huh?

[underdawg]

Again......

Non Spurs fans will say he lowered his shoulder into the back......Spurs fans will say he won't, let's leave it at that and avoid a couple of pages of arguments.

True - what you don't see is Horry karate chopping West in his lower back. That was a cheap shot by far - I still can't believe that Horry wasn't suspended.
If you are a non-Spurs fan and you believe that was a cheap shot, you probably out to stick to watching tennis where that whole scary tough contact thing doesn't happen.

[benefactor]

Again.......

Non Spurs fans will say he lowered his shoulder into the back......Spurs fans will say he won't, let's leave it at that and avoid a couple of pages of arguments.
Its not about being a Spurs fan or a non-Spurs fan. Any fan that has watched NBA basketball and has seen someone set a pick has seen 100 hundred other players do the exact same thing. It's just basketball...you lean in to accept the contact. There is nothing to argue, unless you are just grabbing at the wind by trying to relate this to what happened with Horry and Nash.

The fact that West was hurt and decided to play was the key in that sequence. If the was too hurt to withstand a hard pick then he needs to get to the bench. He went down in pain because he ALREADY HAD an injury, not because Horry injured him.

[underdawg]

Its not about being a Spurs fan or a non-Spurs fan. Any fan that has watched NBA basketball and has seen someone set a pick has seen 100 hundred other players do the exact same thing. It's just basketball...you lean in to accept the contact. There is nothing to argue, unless you are just grabbing at the wind by trying to relate this to what happened with Horry and Nash.

The fact that West was hurt and decided to play was the key in that sequence. If the was too hurt to withstand a hard pick then he needs to get to the bench. He went down in pain because he ALREADY HAD an injury, not because Horry injured him.

and in reality, the real difference of that series was switcing Bowen to Peja after the disaster of assigning him to Paul.

[Roxsfan]

It's crazy not to admit that Houston's trade just gave them a trio of first rate players that compare with any in the league.

Discussions of past injuries ignore Duncan's foot and Manu's reputation as El Contusion. ANY team's chances can be degraded by an injury.

Rockets have added a great lock-down defender to a club that already had great defensive stats. In addition all of their Big 3 are capable of scoring 20 ppg.

Homers here are simply whistling past the graveyard if you don't think this was a great addition to the Rockets AND another serious contender for the WC Championship.

Gonna be tougher this year than last and last year was tougher than the year before.


voice of reason

[underdawg]

voice of reason

here's a voice of reason - what team has Artest improved in the long run? Has Artest won a championship? I agree - past injuries are past injuries, but history is history and what has Artest done that makes him a sure fire answer to a teams woes? What does T-Mac think about Artest saying that Yao hasn't ever played with a "black" player? Good start to a new team - get used to it.

[Kai]

here's a voice of reason - what team has Artest improved in the long run? Has Artest won a championship? I agree - past injuries are past injuries, but history is history and what has Artest done that makes him a sure fire answer to a teams woes? What does T-Mac think about Artest saying that Yao hasn't ever played with a "black" player? Good start to a new team - get used to it.

Artest did nothing but make the Kings better, and he hardly did anything to make things worse in Sacramento even with his off the court 'troubles' at the end of last season. What does Artest winning a championship have to do with how much better he makes our team? Had Paul Piece, Ray Allen or KG won championships?

The main thing to look at in this trade is that the Rox did not give up any part of our group last year, and added Artest. If anything, we could just tell him to stay home and we wouldn' be any weaker than before. You could also say we added Yao if you agree the Lakers "added" Bynum.

Not one of Artest's teammates had a problem with him. He is a man that gets along well with his teammates and has a real sense of loyalty. He said the "black" thing because he was addressing the the issue of Yao being brought up in China and perhaps not having met someone who was brought up in a place like Artest (which isn't true since Rafer lived 5 mins away from him growing up).

The point he was trying to make was simply Yao had only heard about the bad things about Artest in the news, yet he hadn't met him, so he might see his 'culture' and think bad things without getting to know him. He spoke to him and they set things straight anyways.

T-Mac could probably care less about Artest's comments since he was the one to reach out to Artest after the comments and give him Yao's cell #. Tracy said the trade was the greatest feeling of his 11 year career and "can't sleep" when he thinks about it.

[DPG21920]

Artest helps.

[underdawg]

Artest did nothing but make the Kings better, and he hardly did anything to make things worse in Sacramento even with his off the court 'troubles' at the end of last season. What does Artest winning a championship have to do with how much better he makes our team? Had Paul Piece, Ray Allen or KG won championships?

The main thing to look at in this trade is that the Rox did not give up any part of our group last year, and added Artest. If anything, we could just tell him to stay home and we wouldn' be any weaker than before. You could also say we added Yao if you agree the Lakers "added" Bynum.

Not one of Artest's teammates had a problem with him. He is a man that gets along well with his teammates and has a real sense of loyalty. He said the "black" thing because he was addressing the the issue of Yao being brought up in China and perhaps not having met someone who was brought up in a place like Artest (which isn't true since Rafer lived 5 mins away from him growing up).

The point he was trying to make was simply Yao had only heard about the bad things about Artest in the news, yet he hadn't met him, so he might see his 'culture' and think bad things without getting to know him. He spoke to him and they set things straight anyways.

T-Mac could probably care less about Artest's comments since he was the one to reach out to Artest after the comments and give him Yao's cell #. Tracy said the trade was the greatest feeling of his 11 year career and "can't sleep" when he thinks about it.

Of course he was going to make the Kings better - they sucked. What's funny is that you say that the Kings players didn't have any problems with him, but that's not accurate. There were some Kings players that said Artest would get in a mode where he would take things personal and try to score by himself. He would disrupt called plays and try to post up to get the ball. And let's not forget his tenure with Indiana - he asked for time off to debut his rap album. And oh yeah, he went up into the stands to fight a fan - come on now he went up into the stands to fight a fan.

And yes you are right - put Artest with Garnett and Pierce or with Allen and Garnett or with Pierce and Allen and he will have a good shot at a ring. Artest with T-Mac and Yao doesn't necessarily mean he'll get a ring. Garnett, Allen and Pierce are on another level than Yao and T-Mac.

[underdawg]

Artest helps.

Artest helps the Rockets stay out of the 2nd round of the playoffs

[Kai]

Of course he was going to make the Kings better - they sucked. What's funny is that you say that the Kings players didn't have any problems with him, but that's not accurate. There were some Kings players that said Artest would get in a mode where he would take things personal and try to score by himself. He would disrupt called plays and try to post up to get the ball. And let's not forget his tenure with Indiana - he asked for time off to debut his rap album. And oh yeah, he went up into the stands to fight a fan - come on now he went up into the stands to fight a fan.

And yes you are right - put Artest with Garnett and Pierce or with Allen and Garnett or with Pierce and Allen and he will have a good shot at a ring. Artest with T-Mac and Yao doesn't necessarily mean he'll get a ring. Garnett, Allen and Pierce are on another level than Yao and T-Mac.

Artest would take things personal and try to score by himself when he was the man in Sacramento. He was the go-to scorer. Whether he does that or not is yet to be seen. If he decides to act that way, he can have a nice helping of humble pie on the bench, something we can afford. (at least more so than the Kings) My point is that The Rockets are not in any way worse than they were before. you said "what team has he helped in the long run?". ANSWER: the Kings. He never made them worse. I didn't bring up Indiana because he did hurt them in the long run. Badly.

You also said, "Has he won a championship?" No he hasn't, and neither had those three last year and that didn't stop them. The answer to that question had nothing to do with the fact that he will help the Rockets a lot.

Garnett, Allen and Pierce are hardly on another level than Yao and T-mac or Duncan Parker and Manu for that matter, unless you mean as a whole. If that's the case, Then I'd take Artest over Ray Allen anyways. T-Mac or Pierce, you've got to be kidding. Yao and KG are the only two I'd even consider arguing over, but I'd take Yao. (This is all assuming all players are healthy)

[Kai]

Artest helps the Rockets stay out of the 2nd round of the playoffs

It's hard to take you serious with comments like this. Do you honestly believe this or are you just an old fashioned hater?

[AC#21_TD ERA]

Thats a great trade for the rockets and the nightmare of the off season just continues for us. Its time to face reality that the spurs f.o are a bunch of FUKIN pussies, and tight asses, SCREW THAT 2010 PLAN were getting no one. We cant even catch a cold. We wont beat LA and you can now add Houston to that list. Anakha if you dont like what ive just typed I DONT GIVE A DAMN, you can go screw yourself. THE DISASTER CONTINUES, THE SPURS ARE A DEAD TEAM WALKING! RC PUSSYFORD YOUR A FUKING COWARD!

[anakha]

Thats a great trade for the rockets and the nightmare of the off season just continues for us. Its time to face reality that the spurs f.o are a bunch of FUKIN pussies, and tight asses, SCREW THAT 2010 PLAN were getting no one. We cant even catch a cold. We wont beat LA and you can now add Houston to that list. Anakha if you dont like what ive just typed I DONT GIVE A DAMN, you can go screw yourself. THE DISASTER CONTINUES, THE SPURS ARE A DEAD TEAM WALKING! RC PUSSYFORD YOUR A FUKING COWARD!

Somebody's obsessed. :lmao

[icem]

It's crazy not to admit that Houston's trade just gave them a trio of first rate players that compare with any in the league.

Discussions of past injuries ignore Duncan's foot and Manu's reputation as El Contusion. ANY team's chances can be degraded by an injury.

Rockets have added a great lock-down defender to a club that already had great defensive stats. In addition all of their Big 3 are capable of scoring 20 ppg.

Homers here are simply whistling past the graveyard if you don't think this was a great addition to the Rockets AND another serious contender for the WC Championship.

Gonna be tougher this year than last and last year was tougher than the year before.

basically....

[ambchang]

Again......

Non Spurs fans will say he lowered his shoulder into the back......Spurs fans will say he won't, let's leave it at that and avoid a couple of pages of arguments.

Sigh, the argument was that Horry put his forearm in the West's back, not lowering his shoulders, got it? Just dig out old articles and read them. It is very very difficult for a 6'10" guy to lower his shoulders into the back of a 6'8" when standing straight up.

[ambchang]

Artest did nothing but make the Kings better, and he hardly did anything to make things worse in Sacramento even with his off the court 'troubles' at the end of last season. What does Artest winning a championship have to do with how much better he makes our team? Had Paul Piece, Ray Allen or KG won championships?

Kings record and key acquisitions/losses:

2004 - 55-27, 2nd round, Weber hurt
2005 - 50-32, 1st round, Weber, Peja, Miller and Jackson hurt.
2006 - 44-38, 1st round, traded Artest for Peja, Weber gone.
2007 - 33-49, missed playoffs, Miller hurt, Kevin Martin emerges.
2008 - 38-44, missed playoffs, traded Bibby, Martin hurt, Artest hurt/suspended.

I am not sure how you can say Artest made the Kings any better.


The main thing to look at in this trade is that the Rox did not give up any part of our group last year, and added Artest. If anything, we could just tell him to stay home and we wouldn' be any weaker than before. You could also say we added Yao if you agree the Lakers "added" Bynum.

I agree the Rockets gave up little, but it is a huge risk adding Artest. It's either bust or home run.


Not one of Artest's teammates had a problem with him. He is a man that gets along well with his teammates and has a real sense of loyalty. He said the "black" thing because he was addressing the the issue of Yao being brought up in China and perhaps not having met someone who was brought up in a place like Artest (which isn't true since Rafer lived 5 mins away from him growing up).

His clashes with Bibby was well-documented.
He publicly asked to be traded by the Pacers after the whole organization was behind him for the suspensions after the brawl.
When he was with the Bulls, talk was that he was a cancer in the locker room, intimidating and bullies his way around, which was one reason the Bulls traded him away despite him showing great potential.


The point he was trying to make was simply Yao had only heard about the bad things about Artest in the news, yet he hadn't met him, so he might see his 'culture' and think bad things without getting to know him. He spoke to him and they set things straight anyways.

T-Mac could probably care less about Artest's comments since he was the one to reach out to Artest after the comments and give him Yao's cell #. Tracy said the trade was the greatest feeling of his 11 year career and "can't sleep" when he thinks about it.

McGrady said that when he joined the Rockets, he said it was a great feeling joining the Magic, point is, it means nothing other than that he sees potential in the trade.

And no, running into the stands beating an innocent fan, beating your spouse, starving your dogs, and stabbing a FO that has been behind you through tough times is not a culture thing, it's being nuts.

[GuerillaBlack]

When did Artest starve his dogs? He was away on an NBA trip and left his dogs with dog sitters. Turns out his dog had developed a bone disease, which is why it looked like it was starved. His spouse case was dismissed, too.

[nil.ball]

Even if Artest does not play a single game, you are looking at:

a playoff team just added Yao+Barry which is 30ppg right there.

People keeps talking about Lakers will have Bynum back. What about the Rockets adding 30ppg not even counting artest and adding a monstrous 50ppg to a 55wins play off team with Yao Barry Artest while losing practically nothing?

[ambchang]

When did Artest starve his dogs? He was away on an NBA trip and left his dogs with dog sitters. Turns out his dog had developed a bone disease, which is why it looked like it was starved. His spouse case was dismissed, too.

He left his Great Dane to underqualified personnel while he was away, that is starving him. If I left my kid to some bozo who has no ability to take care of kids, and the kid got sickly thin, I would be charged.

His domestic violence case was not dismissed:



Sacramento Kings forward Ron Artest pleaded no contest Thursday to a misdemeanor domestic violence charge stemming from a March 5 dispute with his wife, the latest in a string of off-court problems, according to an Associated Press news report posted on the ESPN website.

A judge sentenced the NBA player to 100 hours of community service and a 10-day work project. Artest was also ordered to pay a $600 fine and get extensive counseling, including a year-long violence treatment program. He is also to attend a parenting class about the effects of domestic violence on children. The judge modified the restraining order that has kept Artest away from his wife, Kimsha and their three children since last month’s incident at their $1.9 million mansion in Loomis, which is 25 miles north of Sacramento.


http://www.georgiacriminaldefenseblog.com/2007/05/nba_star_artest_sentenced_in_d.html

[nil.ball]

He left his Great Dane to underqualified personnel while he was away, that is starving him. If I left my kid to some bozo who has no ability to take care of kids, and the kid got sickly thin, I would be charged.

His domestic violence case was not dismissed:



http://www.georgiacriminaldefenseblog.com/2007/05/nba_star_artest_sentenced_in_d.html

So it's his fault somebody didn't take care of his puppy.

What's next, his fault Magic Johnson got HIV?

[coopdogg3]

While charges weren't filed concerning Artest's dog, he did give it up for adoption. Which certainly implies that he wasn't giving the dog the best attention.

[ambchang]

So it's his fault somebody didn't take care of his puppy.

What's next, his fault Magic Johnson got HIV?

So it is not his fault that he hired the wrong personnel to provide care for his pet, for which he is the care giver?

Was he ever Magic Johnson's care giver?

[coopdogg3]

So it is not his fault that he hired the wrong personnel to provide care for his pet, for which he is the care giver?

Was he ever Magic Johnson's care giver?

I think Artest was responsible for buying Magic Johnson's condoms. And the rest is history.

[hater]

Ron Artest is responsible for 911

[screw_ston713]

Artest play on the court out weighs his off court problems. I can careless, im not his parole officer. I just want to see him play basketball, bring his toughness and grit to a team that soley need it. Rockets already have alot of choir boys, goodie goodie. I want to see artest bully matt harpring and those jazz, be another defender to throw at kobe. Artest plays with emotion, with fight and a wont back down attitude. If the shoe were on the other foot yall spurs fans wouldnt give a damn about what artest does off the court, and wouldnt be tryna hear it.

[nil.ball]

Ron Artest is responsible for finding Magic Johnson a ho, but failed to be responsible checking for HIV. The court of GLHT finds Mr. Artest: Guilty! on all charges!

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Thats a great trade for the rockets and the nightmare of the off season just continues for us. Its time to face reality that the spurs f.o are a bunch of FUKIN pussies, and tight asses, SCREW THAT 2010 PLAN were getting no one. We cant even catch a cold. We wont beat LA and you can now add Houston to that list. Anakha if you dont like what ive just typed I DONT GIVE A DAMN, you can go screw yourself. THE DISASTER CONTINUES, THE SPURS ARE A DEAD TEAM WALKING! RC PUSSYFORD YOUR A FUKING COWARD!


gay...

[The Franchise]

A healthy Rockets team means championship.

[Kai]

A healthy Rockets team means championship.

How bout we try to get out of the first round?

[screw_ston713]

How bout we try to get out of the first round?
when celtics got the big 3 did they limit themselves, setting a goal of only getting pass the 1st round after only winning 25 games the previous year. We playing for all the marbles im not settling for getting out the 1st round like thats some kind of achievement. You play to win the :lobt2:

[screw_ston713]

If we put this squad together to simply advance to round 2 we shouldnt even show up for the playoffs.

[Kai]

when celtics got the big 3 did they limit themselves, setting a goal of only getting pass the 1st round after only winning 25 games the previous year. We playing for all the marbles im not settling for getting out the 1st round like thats some kind of achievement. You play to win the :lobt2:

True Champions think about the task at hand before they think about a championship. Ask any of the Spurs fans around here. Do you think the Celtics were thinking about the Finals when they were about to play a game 7 against the 8th seed Hawks? I believe this team has the talent to win a championship, but so do the Lakers, Spurs, Celtics and maybe a couple other teams.

Staying Humble is the key. Focus on each game, each series at a time. There's a difference between setting a goal to be the champs (not that any team in the league wouldn't) and spouting "If healthy, we'll be the champs". We haven't gotten out of the first round. Once we do that, we can see what happens afterwords.

[screw_ston713]

Every title contending team goal is winning the championship. Houston fans have become custom to just having franchises that compete. How can we call ourselves serious title contenders and we are just excited to advance pass the 1st round.

[screw_ston713]

Because you advance pass the first round dont mean you are any closer to a championship than anyone else. If that was so Jazz been close for what 20 years now. Phoenix has also advanced several times yet they have no rings to show for it. Mavs got to the finals and havent even gotten close the following two years.

[GSH]

Even if Artest does not play a single game, you are looking at:

a playoff team just added Yao+Barry which is 30ppg right there.

People keeps talking about Lakers will have Bynum back. What about the Rockets adding 30ppg not even counting artest and adding a monstrous 50ppg to a 55wins play off team with Yao Barry Artest while losing practically nothing?

A good test of a theory is if you can carry it a little bit further without it falling to pieces. Could they bring in ten 20-point guys and score 200 points per game? Unfortunately is isn't as simple as duct-taping pieces together. Especially when it comes to scoring points. If you keep adding scorers, they start taking each other's minutes and shots.

I remember about 8-9 seasons ago, the Blazers were so deep that all the commentators were talking about how they had two complete starting lineups. That they had 10 (or even 12) players who would all be starting for any other team in the league. They sucked that season, and went completely to shit after that. And their biggest problem was chemistry. They couldn't satisfy all those egos. And they couldn't survive all the trouble-makers and head cases, no matter how much talent they had.

[kupogrey]

Of course he was going to make the Kings better - they sucked. What's funny is that you say that the Kings players didn't have any problems with him, but that's not accurate. There were some Kings players that said Artest would get in a mode where he would take things personal and try to score by himself. He would disrupt called plays and try to post up to get the ball. And let's not forget his tenure with Indiana - he asked for time off to debut his rap album. And oh yeah, he went up into the stands to fight a fan - come on now he went up into the stands to fight a fan.

And yes you are right - put Artest with Garnett and Pierce or with Allen and Garnett or with Pierce and Allen and he will have a good shot at a ring. Artest with T-Mac and Yao doesn't necessarily mean he'll get a ring. Garnett, Allen and Pierce are on another level than Yao and T-Mac.


so you personally talked to kings players?


Yao/Mac >>>>> Allen/Pierce

[Sissiborgo]

I think he wont!