4th Quarter, Game 6, 2002 WCF

[baseline bum]

I managed to finally get a copy of this fourth quarter, and here's my opinion on LA's 27 free throws:

11:35 - 2 FT for Shaq (6th foul on Pollard) - bullshit - Pollard just stuck his arms straight up on Shaq's shot. Walton agreed.

10:28 - 2 FT for George on driving layup (3rd on Webber) - legit - Webber hit him and spun him around on a layup in transition. This one can't really be argued.

8:29 - 2 FT for Shaq (5th foul on Divac) - legit - Divac threw his body into him on with no call, then raked his arm on the shot (which was called). It was a late call though. FWIW, Walton said Shaq travelled (I disagree).

7:37 - 1 FT for Bryant (foul on Bobby Jackson) - legit - Bryant got a long rebound off a Jackson miss, and had a clear path to the basket. Jackson grabbed Bryant's jersey, and a breakaway foul was called. Clear as day clear path foul.

6:21 - 2 FT for O'Neal (foul on Funderburke) - borderline - Funderburke gave Shaq a forearm to the back as O'Neal received a post entry pass. A call that can usually go either way.

4:24 - 2 FT for O'Neal (4th foul on Webber) - legit - Divac played perfect defense on O'Neal's shot, but Webber came in from behind and (barely) hit the back of Shaq's head.

2:56 - 2 FT for Horry (6th foul on Divac) - ludicrous - Divac is called for his 6th while diving for a loose ball. Incidental contact while two players are going for a loose ball should never be called.

2:18 - 2 FT for O'Neal (foul on Funderburke) - legit - Funderburke lets Shaq get position about 5 feet from the basket and then reaches over his back on the post entry pass.

1:55 - 2 FT for Bryant (foul on Christie) - bullshit - Bryant got trapped under the backboard, jumped into Christie, and even then there wasn't much contact. This was a total bailout. Bibby goes to the floor in disbelief when the whistle is blown.

1:37 - 2 FT for Fox (foul on Funderburke) - legit - Funderburke runs right over Fox after Fox secured a defensive rebound from a wild shot by Turkoglu.

1:15 - 2 FT for Fox (foul on Turkoglu) - legit - Turkoglu hits Fox's elbow as he shoots on a post-up. There's also lots of body contact.

0:19.8 - 2 FT for Bryant (foul on Jackson) - legit - Intentional foul

0:11.8 - 2 FT for Bryant (foul on Christie) - bullshit - Bryant levels Bibby with an elbow to the face on the inbounds pass, and is then fouled intentionally by Christie. Bryant's foul is borderline flagrant, and not calling it is inexcusable. The elbow was delivered in a punching motion, and is much worse than hits I've seen players thrown out of games for, even in the playoffs. This is the call that cost the Kings the championship, and the one that gives Kings fan legitimate gripes. They were down 103-102 at this point, and instead of having Bibby shooting FT to win the game, LA shoots to go up 3. What a fucking joke. Laker fans show their class by booing Bibby as he's on the ground after being dropped.

0:02.4 - 2 FT for Horry (foul on Turkoglu) - legit - intentional foul. Game over.

[I. Hustle]

MAN FINALLY! I was wondering about this for 6 years!

[nil.ball]

lowlz.

[kobyz]

what with the Kings FT?

[baseline bum]

what with the Kings FT?

The Kings did nothing but shoot jumpers until about the 4:30 mark. After that they finally started posting Webber and attacking the basket. The only somewhat questionable play on the Kings end was an offensive foul Horry drew on Webber from a flop. Otherwise, the refs blew the whistle whenever Sacramento got fouled on that end.

[Lakers_55]

I'll attempt to give a reasonable response to this. First, I'll take your word that you have described every foul correctly.

The score is:
9 legit fouls.
4 BS fouls.
1 Borderline foul.

I don't know what the percentage of blown or known calls is in a game, but my first suspicion is that 4 BS calls are not statistically significant. However, I have also posted elsewhere awhile back that a fix could have occured in this game.

However, 9 fouls is a lot for a team to have in a quarter, and those 9 led to 17 freethrow attempts.

Ok, now the tough part of what I am trying to explain. Please slowly follow my logic here. Suppose you are shooting craps in Las Vegas. Your point you need to make is 6, and you have a lot of money at stake. You throw the six (Equate this with a foul in your favor). Now, you can't change the past, but suppose you stopped to kiss your girlfriend before you tossed the dice. Is there a guarantee you would throw a six in this case? No, there isn't. Your body, arm, everything is in a different position than the scenario where you tossed the six. In this case we'll say this is akin to throwing a 7 and losing your wager....

Ok, let's relate this to the 4th quarter of game 6, 2002 WCF. Now, if any of the above fouls were called any differently, every player on the court is going to be in a different position than they ended up being in. Same venue, different moment in time. Different arrangement of offense and defense even if ever so slightly, remember there are 10 guys on the court, and even the refs will get a different view of things. THe game will play out differntly than it did in reality.

So, anything could have happened, since we are now in a different game. Fouls could have continued to be called, or perhaps not. Either team could get hot or not.

Now, let's review the most questionable call, when Bibby's mouth fouled Kobe's elbow. First, I don't know if the refs missed it or ignored it. Is a statement published anywhere? From my perception, Kobe was going for position, his elbow just got in the way. Flagrant? Open to interpretation and debate, since it influences possesion after the foul shots. Would a foul against Kobe mean free throws for Bibby for certain? Even if it does, this isn't a guarentee that the Kings win the game. True it increases their chances to win, but anything can happen in the waning seconds....

Ok, let's take this logic to game 7. People say if the Kings had made their freethrows, they win in regulation. Well, we have a new scenario. A make at any point of the game instead of a miss puts everyone in a different position at a different time and the remainder of the game will not act out as it really did. Anything can happen.

Now, if it can be proven that a fix was in for game 6 of the 2002 WCF, then our NBA is history.

This logic I decribe is why I do my best not to dwell on the past. I you play a game of chess, one bad move can negate 40 good ones. It is up to the chessplayer not to make a mistake and ruin a good position. Play your best chess or basketball. Make your shots, grab the rebounds, create turnovers, etc. Also, in basketball a team must live with the human element which in this case are the refs.

Thanks for listening, look forward to any replies this post generates. :)

[Trainwreck2100]

Thanks for listening, look forward to any replies this post generates.

I didn't read your post cause it was too long and i dont give a shit about the subject matter of this thread.

[stretch]

I didn't read your post cause it was too long and i dont give a shit about the subject matter of this thread.

:lmao

[ambchang]

While it isn't necessary true that if that game was called well would equate to a Kings win, we do know that a terribly officiated game resulted in a Kings loss. The point is that the questionable refereeing gave the Lakers an indisputable advantage in the contest, and this totally defeats the point of having referees in the first place.

Their job is to officiate the game in a way that is fair to both involved teams within the boundaries of the rules, but to most objective observers, they failed to do so, which resulted in an unfair advantage for the Lakers.

Could the Kings have recovered and won Game 7? Or even recovered in the last few minutes and make a miracle shot? Sure. But they shouldn't even have to if the game was called correctly, or at the very least without significant bias.

[I. Hustle]

Damn has anyone around here heard the term "To make a long (boring ass) story short"?

Does anyone really even care? The Kings were not going to win anything. I don’t care if they had Tonya Harding on their team and she busted all the Lakers knee caps. They weren’t going anywhere

[Rappin' Shaq]

Any game played by the Big Aristotle
Is a win for my team so don't get hostile
All these cryin little bitches whinin bout bad calls
I got a box of tissues for ya that I bought at the mall
If the Kings were any good they wouldn't hack at me
Their cheap bullshit stylin was just way too tacky
If you bitches wanna cry then just get out my face
Yo Kings fans, tell me how my ass taste!

[Sense]

Any game played by the Big Aristotle
Is a win for my team so don't get hostile
All these cryin little bitches whinin bout bad calls
I got a box of tissues for ya that I bought at the mall
If the Kings were any good they wouldn't hack at me
Their cheap bullshit stylin was just way too tacky
If you bitches wanna cry then just get out my face
Yo Kings fans, tell me how my ass taste!


lmao props troll

props

[Rappin' Vlade]

Any game played by the Big Aristotle
Is a win for my team so don't get hostile
All these cryin little bitches whinin bout bad calls
I got a box of tissues for ya that I bought at the mall
If the Kings were any good they wouldn't hack at me
Their cheap bullshit stylin was just way too tacky
If you bitches wanna cry then just get out my face
Yo Kings fans, tell me how my ass taste!

Taste your ass? thats worse than death,
either that or smelling your breath.
The series was fixed, we all know that to be true,
it was all bullshit, all the fouls that i drew.
i just liked to bump you, but not in a gay way
in the post there was always a melee.
Something was wrong i knew it this whole time,
so instead of celebrating, im here trying to rhyme

[trueD]

Thanks baseline bum for posting your thoughts about the 14 fouls called against the Kings in that infamous 4th quarter. Question: What is up with only one +1 shot? I realize there were two intentional fouls and one on Lakers' defensive end, but isn't 27 shots for 14 fouls unusual?

Assuming baseline bum is correct in his assessment, a couple of things are curious: First, two of the four so-called BS fouls are actually 6th fouls against centers Pollard (only 25 seconds into the 4th quarter) and Divac. Second, when the third BS foul was called against Kobe, Bibby drops to the floor 'in disbelief' and, coincidentally, is elbowed by Kobe not long after that.

At the time I was a fan just two years, and didn't follow the media and had NO IDEA how much impact my team was making in the league! Watching this game was one of those times like when you get married....or have a life threatening, traumatic event happen....that is never forgotten.



I'll attempt to give a reasonable response to this. First, I'll take your word that you have described every foul correctly.

The score is:
9 legit fouls.
4 BS fouls.
1 Borderline foul.

I don't know what the percentage of blown or known calls is in a game, but my first suspicion is that 4 BS calls are not statistically significant. However, I have also posted elsewhere awhile back that a fix could have occured in this game.

Though not likely, one may forget 4 BS calls in a game, but a QUARTER? I call bullshit.


However, 9 fouls is a lot for a team to have in a quarter, and those 9 led to 17 freethrow attempts.

Ok, now the tough part of what I am trying to explain. Please slowly follow my logic here. Suppose you are shooting craps in Las Vegas. Your point you need to make is 6, and you have a lot of money at stake. You throw the six (Equate this with a foul in your favor). Now, you can't change the past, but suppose you stopped to kiss your girlfriend before you tossed the dice. Is there a guarantee you would throw a six in this case? No, there isn't. Your body, arm, everything is in a different position than the scenario where you tossed the six. In this case we'll say this is akin to throwing a 7 and losing your wager....

Ok, let's relate this to the 4th quarter of game 6, 2002 WCF. Now, if any of the above fouls were called any differently, every player on the court is going to be in a different position than they ended up being in. Same venue, different moment in time. Different arrangement of offense and defense even if ever so slightly, remember there are 10 guys on the court, and even the refs will get a different view of things. THe game will play out differntly than it did in reality.

So, anything could have happened, since we are now in a different game. Fouls could have continued to be called, or perhaps not. Either team could get hot or not.

Your logic here may have stuck if we weren't talking about the starting AND backup center for Kings fouling out of an elimination WCF game on "BS" calls.


Now, let's review the most questionable call, when Bibby's mouth fouled Kobe's elbow. First, I don't know if the refs missed it or ignored it. Is a statement published anywhere? From my perception, Kobe was going for position, his elbow just got in the way. Flagrant? Open to interpretation and debate, since it influences possesion after the foul shots. Would a foul against Kobe mean free throws for Bibby for certain? Even if it does, this isn't a guarentee that the Kings win the game. True it increases their chances to win, but anything can happen in the waning seconds....

If you are seriously intimating that Kobe's elbow may not have fouled Bibby's mouth and therefore did not warrant AT LEAST 2 freethrows, your credibility just died and went to hell. Are you kidding me? If the foul is called, as most will say it should have been, Christie does not foul Kobe to stop the game. Bibby gets 2 shots and, if he makes them, a 4 point swing (my recollection is that Kings lost by 4). Yes, it changes the outcome of the game if the score is tied with 11 seconds to go, but suppose Bibby gets the flagrant call and Kings get the ball with 11 seconds left. The math is pretty easy and, although a win is not certain (especially with how things were going to that point), it gives the Kings a legitimate shot, albeit late.


Ok, let's take this logic to game 7. People say if the Kings had made their freethrows, they win in regulation. Well, we have a new scenario. A make at any point of the game instead of a miss puts everyone in a different position at a different time and the remainder of the game will not act out as it really did. Anything can happen.

This paragraph is so very moot. What about .... Kings win Game 6 and Lakers get a jumpstart on their "rebuilding". Blame it all on Kings' missing their FT's in Game 7. :lol


Now, if it can be proven that a fix was in for game 6 of the 2002 WCF, then our NBA is history.

This logic I decribe is why I do my best not to dwell on the past. I you play a game of chess, one bad move can negate 40 good ones. It is up to the chessplayer not to make a mistake and ruin a good position. Play your best chess or basketball. Make your shots, grab the rebounds, create turnovers, etc. Also, in basketball a team must live with the human element which in this case are the refs.

It would seem the argument is weak and probably lost when, at last, faulty officiating should be blamed on simply "being human". Bah.

[baseline bum]

Both teams were in the penalty at the time of the Bryant elbow.

My general feeling on the game is that it looks horrible on the boxscore to see LA shoot 27 FT, but after watching the game, it was a case of homecourt advantage mixed with LA forcing it inside on almost every possession combined with overall referee incompetence. I definitely don't see anything to warrant a conspiracy. Instead, I see it as the bad calls being able to be attributed to a couple of ridiculous unwritten rules of the NBA guidebook:

1) Superstars get bailed out when there is any contact whatsoever from lower players (Pollard's 6th and Christie's foul on Bryant's wild shot)

2) Refs arbitrarily swallow their whistles sometimes at the end of games, because refs shouldn't decide the outcome of important games (Bryant's elbow to Bibby). Well, the ref does decide the outcome of the game when he's too much of a coward to make the correct call because he's scared of catching heat from the press.

As a Spurs fan, 2) really pisses me off. Here's a couple of examples of how the Spurs have been screwed by it both ways:

1. Refs decide you do call touch fouls at the end of game 4 of the 2006 Dallas series, when Dirk Nowitzki shoots FT to force OT with about 10 seconds despite Bruce Bowen doing nothing that constitutes a foul. Maybe Bavetta was scared of the inevitable Cuban bitchfest to the media if he didn't hand Dallas the game.

2. Refs decide you can't call a foul to determine a game in game 4 of the LA series this season when Fisher jumps and blatantly crashes into Brent Barry as he's about to shoot a three to win the game.

If I was Kings fan, I would complain more about the ridiculous elbow than the 27 FT. The elbow is the single worst call I've ever seen in a game, and it's not even close.

[I. Hustle]

Taste your ass? thats worse than death,
either that or smelling your breath.
The series was fixed, we all know that to be true,
it was all bullshit, all the fouls that i drew.
i just liked to bump you, but not in a gay way
in the post there was always a melee.
Something was wrong i knew it this whole time,
so instead of celebrating, im here trying to rhyme

:td

[Lakers_55]

Both teams were in the penalty at the time of the Bryant elbow.

My general feeling on the game is that it looks horrible on the boxscore to see LA shoot 27 FT, but after watching the game, it was a case of homecourt advantage mixed with LA forcing it inside on almost every possession combined with overall referee incompetence. I definitely don't see anything to warrant a conspiracy. Instead, I see it as the bad calls being able to be attributed to a couple of ridiculous unwritten rules of the NBA guidebook:

1) Superstars get bailed out when there is any contact whatsoever from lower players (Pollard's 6th and Christie's foul on Bryant's wild shot)

2) Refs arbitrarily swallow their whistles sometimes at the end of games, because refs shouldn't decide the outcome of important games (Bryant's elbow to Bibby). Well, the ref does decide the outcome of the game when he's too much of a coward to make the correct call because he's scared of catching heat from the press.

As a Spurs fan, 2) really pisses me off. Here's a couple of examples of how the Spurs have been screwed by it both ways:

1. Refs decide you do call touch fouls at the end of game 4 of the 2006 Dallas series, when Dirk Nowitzki shoots FT to force OT with about 10 seconds despite Bruce Bowen doing nothing that constitutes a foul. Maybe Bavetta was scared of the inevitable Cuban bitchfest to the media if he didn't hand Dallas the game.

2. Refs decide you can't call a foul to determine a game in game 4 of the LA series this season when Fisher jumps and blatantly crashes into Brent Barry as he's about to shoot a three to win the game.

If I was Kings fan, I would complain more about the ridiculous elbow than the 27 FT. The elbow is the single worst call I've ever seen in a game, and it's not even close.

If a foul is called on Bryant for elbowing Bibby, it isn't necessarily free throws. Offensive foul means turnover. Kings then have to make a shot and hold on. If it's loose ball foul, that's a different story. The announcers do mention it as an offensive foul.

Here's another review of the the game, and the last 5 minutes of fouls. Note that Bibby was also guilty of grabbing Kobe first on the critical play. It's kind of like how Barry traveled before Fisher bumped him in game 4 of the 2008 WCF. One non-call deserves another.

http://www.82games.com/lakerskingsgame6.htm

[Lakers_55]

Though not likely, one may forget 4 BS calls in a game, but a QUARTER? I call bullshit.
My reply was based on baselinebum being accurate in his assessments. There are other points of view, see the link in my post above.



Your logic here may have stuck if we weren't talking about the starting AND backup center for Kings fouling out of an elimination WCF game on "BS" calls.

The logic makes perfect sense. Change just one call and keep either center in the game, and the rest of the game plays out entirely different. Read the part you quoted again. Anything could happen.


If you are seriously intimating that Kobe's elbow may not have fouled Bibby's mouth and therefore did not warrant AT LEAST 2 freethrows, your credibility just died and went to hell. Are you kidding me? If the foul is called, as most will say it should have been, Christie does not foul Kobe to stop the game. Bibby gets 2 shots and, if he makes them, a 4 point swing (my recollection is that Kings lost by 4). Yes, it changes the outcome of the game if the score is tied with 11 seconds to go, but suppose Bibby gets the flagrant call and Kings get the ball with 11 seconds left. The math is pretty easy and, although a win is not certain (especially with how things were going to that point), it gives the Kings a legitimate shot, albeit late.
Ok, I was applying a little sarcasm. Someone once posted in here that Bibby's mouth fouled Kobe's elbow, and I rather liked the irony. Sorry! As noted in my post above, Bibby grabbed Kobe first. The play happened quickly and was away from the ball. True a ref could have seen it, but did they? Also, remember if it was called, it is probably an offensive foul. No free throws. Kings still have to win it.



This paragraph is so very moot. What about .... Kings win Game 6 and Lakers get a jumpstart on their "rebuilding". Blame it all on Kings' missing their FT's in Game 7. :lol
Paragraph is fine, I was relating my theory to the argument that many blame the game 7 loss on the Kings inability to make free throws. Fact is, Kings didn't win game 6, and until a conspiracy is proven, they weren't cheated and lost fair and square. It's the human element to blame here, the refs.



It would seem the argument is weak and probably lost when, at last, faulty officiating should be blamed on simply "being human". Bah.

If refs aren't human, what are they? This argument makes perfect sense. Kings played well but not well enough to win. Better luck next time.

[baseline bum]

Ok, I was applying a little sarcasm. Someone once posted in here that Bibby's mouth fouled Kobe's elbow, and I rather liked the irony. Sorry! As noted in my post above, Bibby grabbed Kobe first. The play happened quickly and was away from the ball. True a ref could have seen it, but did they? Also, remember if it was called, it is probably an offensive foul. No free throws. Kings still have to win it.


:lmao

Bibby grabbed Kobe as he was falling to the ground from catching the elbow end of a Kobe Bryant punch. And how the fuck could Barry travel if he didn't even take a step between catching the inbounds pass and Fisher contacted him? :lmfao

[mavs>spurs2]

I'm glad the queens got screwed

Between mini-me, doug "pussywhipped" christie, the choker, and the flopper I absolutely could not stand that team

[baseline bum]

I'm glad the queens got screwed

I rooted for LA in that game too, and to be honest, I'm still glad they won that series. Duncan owed Shaq and Kobe bigtime, and it wouldn't have felt as sweet to see the Spurs eliminate the Lakers the next season if they were only the defending second-round champs.

[IronMexican]

I rooted for LA in that game too, and to be honest, I'm still glad they won that series. Duncan owed Shaq and Kobe bigtime, and it wouldn't have felt as sweet to see the Spurs eliminate the Lakers the next season if they were only the defending second-round champs.

That's true.

I had a lot more respect for San Antonio than I did for the Queens.

Probably because of all the Bay area fags, they don't deserve to win anything(except my Raiders, who suck anyways)

[TheMadHatter]

San Antonio is perhaps the only team the Lakers have faced in the playoffs over the last decade that I don't hate. Consummate professionals, classy organization, they play and win the way basketball should be.

[trueD]

My reply was based on baselinebum being accurate in his assessments. There are other points of view, see the link in my post above.

If our argument is based on baseline bum's assessment being accurate (and I think it is), then you are saying that 4 bullshit calls in any one quarter, nevermind the 4th quarter of an elimination PO game, is not statistically significant. I'm still calling bullshit on that.


The logic makes perfect sense. Change just one call and keep either center in the game, and the rest of the game plays out entirely different. Read the part you quoted again. Anything could happen.

Got your point, I just didn't like it very much. ;)


Ok, I was applying a little sarcasm. Someone once posted in here that Bibby's mouth fouled Kobe's elbow, and I rather liked the irony. Sorry! As noted in my post above, Bibby grabbed Kobe first. The play happened quickly and was away from the ball. True a ref could have seen it, but did they? Also, remember if it was called, it is probably an offensive foul. No free throws. Kings still have to win it.

True about the offensive foul, but seriously, a flagrant was warrented. We all know that! I saw a clip of that play and the ref was watching the play square on (I believe it was Donaldson).



Paragraph is fine, I was relating my theory to the argument that many blame the game 7 loss on the Kings inability to make free throws. Fact is, Kings didn't win game 6, and until a conspiracy is proven, they weren't cheated and lost fair and square. It's the human element to blame here, the refs.

The paragraph makes sense if we're talking about Game 7, but we're not. Read the thread title. At lease you admit there was an error--said error being the refs.


If refs aren't human, what are they? This argument makes perfect sense. Kings played well but not well enough to win. Better luck next time.

27 FT's for Lakers means the whistle was blown 14 times on Lakers behalf, and 9 times on Lakers? 23 whistles in 12 minutes of play. Think about that.

I believe the best team won too, Game 7 made that point. In my world, there's no dispute there. But Kings were ripe for stealing Game 6 and were prevented from doing so, imo.

:whine

...moving forward...

[trueD]

I had a lot more respect for San Antonio than I did for the Queens.

Probably because of all the Bay area fags, they don't deserve to win anything(except my Raiders, who suck anyways)

Sacramento isn't in the Bay Area, dipwod.

[trueD]

Both teams were in the penalty at the time of the Bryant elbow.

My general feeling on the game is that it looks horrible on the boxscore to see LA shoot 27 FT, but after watching the game, it was a case of homecourt advantage mixed with LA forcing it inside on almost every possession combined with overall referee incompetence. I definitely don't see anything to warrant a conspiracy. Instead, I see it as the bad calls being able to be attributed to a couple of ridiculous unwritten rules of the NBA guidebook:

1) Superstars get bailed out when there is any contact whatsoever from lower players (Pollard's 6th and Christie's foul on Bryant's wild shot)

2) Refs arbitrarily swallow their whistles sometimes at the end of games, because refs shouldn't decide the outcome of important games (Bryant's elbow to Bibby). Well, the ref does decide the outcome of the game when he's too much of a coward to make the correct call because he's scared of catching heat from the press.

As a Spurs fan, 2) really pisses me off. Here's a couple of examples of how the Spurs have been screwed by it both ways:

1. Refs decide you do call touch fouls at the end of game 4 of the 2006 Dallas series, when Dirk Nowitzki shoots FT to force OT with about 10 seconds despite Bruce Bowen doing nothing that constitutes a foul. Maybe Bavetta was scared of the inevitable Cuban bitchfest to the media if he didn't hand Dallas the game.

2. Refs decide you can't call a foul to determine a game in game 4 of the LA series this season when Fisher jumps and blatantly crashes into Brent Barry as he's about to shoot a three to win the game.

If I was Kings fan, I would complain more about the ridiculous elbow than the 27 FT. The elbow is the single worst call I've ever seen in a game, and it's not even close.

It's tough not looking at the conspiracy theory, the calls were so blatantly bad and for a PO game we've come to expect more, though reasoning for expecting more escapes me. :lol Because, clearly, you admitted that Bavetta may have been scared of Cuban's possible bitchfest if the game hadn't gone to Dallas.

Me and you differ about fouls at the end of games, too. I saw that foul on Barry by Fisher and KNEW it wasn't going to be called. There's something to be said about consistancy. At lease we can count on those fouls not getting a whistle.

My final thought on this...Lots can happen in 11 seconds. 11 seconds shouldn't constitute an end-of-the-game whistle swallow, imo.

[IronMexican]

Sacramento isn't in the Bay Area, dipwod.

It's all norcal.

And no, not referring to all of them, i suppose, just a lot of douches down here during that period.

[Lakers_55]

:lmao

Bibby grabbed Kobe as he was falling to the ground from catching the elbow end of a Kobe Bryant punch. And how the fuck could Barry travel if he didn't even take a step between catching the inbounds pass and Fisher contacted him? :lmfao

From what I saw, Bibby grabbed Kobe before the elbow. As far as Barry traveling, look here and see for yourself. Kori closed the thread so it had no life:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97449

So, the logic remains that one non-call deserves another.

[Lakers_55]

Speaking of non-calls on traveling, it can be argued that Duncan moved his pivot foot before he took his 3 pointer against the Suns in game 1 of the first round playoffs this year. Have a look at that. I'm not saying he did, I am just saying that non-calls happen all the time. Since it wasn't called, it was the right choice. We have to live with non-calls, like them or not.

[Lakers_55]

True about the offensive foul, but seriously, a flagrant was warrented. We all know that! I saw a clip of that play and the ref was watching the play square on (I believe it was Donaldson).



Thanks for your reply. I disagree about a flagrant being warranted. If a player uses his shoulder as a pivot and rams an elbow to a defender's ribs, that's clearly flagrant. Flagrant is an intention to do harm. Kobe's arm was outstretched. Both he and Bibby were quite extended, jockeying for position. Donaldson's interpretation was they were both out of line and a non-call was in order.

It's the benefit of instant replay that fuels the fire. Kind of like the Rodney King beating tape. The police defense was what took place before the clubbing is what caused it.

[angelbelow]

LOL @ rappingdivac