Manny to Dodgers...

[sribb43]

:wow

Just heard it on ESPN Radio.....

[Melmart1]

.. and Bay to the Red Sox

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/07/31/manny.sweepstakes/index.html?eref=T1

[sribb43]

Sox can kiss the playoffs goodbye...Bay is overrated and is no Manny, I guess Manny was truely becoming a cancer..

Rays - AL East Champs
Yanks - Wild Card

[T Park]

So Tampa Bay wins the division, Yankees Wild Card.

Dodgers win the west now as well.

Great trade by the Dodgers.

[sribb43]

So Tampa Bay wins the division, Yankees Wild Card.

Dodgers win the west now as well.

Great trade by the Dodgers.

+1

[Melmart1]

I am confused as to where Manny is going to play for the Dodgers. Their outfield is already fairly stocked.

Andre Ethier
Matt Kemp
Andruw Jones
Juan Pierre

EDIT: nevermind, the haul for Pittsburgh is Craig Hansen, Brandon Moss, Andy LaRoche and a fourth MiLBer. So who gets benched for Manny to play, since he obviously can't DH for the Dodgers.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Manny to The Dodgers WOW.

[sribb43]

I am confused as to where Manny is going to play for the Dodgers. Their outfield is already fairly stocked.

Andre Ethier
Matt Kemp
Andruw Jones
Juan Pierre

Who isn't playing here, or is it possible Kemp and/or Ethier are going out as part of the deal? There hasn't been any word yet that I can find as to who Pittsburgh gets back for Bay.

Pirates get back 4 minor leaguers...thats all ive heard

[tlongII]

The Red Sox will still win the division. Their pitching is the best in the AL East.

[T Park]

Jones sucks hes gonna sit. Hell he hasn't played with the other guys.


I take it back. The PIRATES got OVER on these guys.

They got Brandon Moss, Andy Laroche, and two other DAMN good prospects.

The Pirates got over HARDCORE on the Dodgers and Red Sox.

[Melmart1]

Pirates get back 4 minor leaguers...thats all ive heard

Yeah, that's all I had heard, too but check my post again, the same link from SI has been updated to say who they got. Well, three of the four, anyways.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Jones sucks hes gonna sit. Hell he hasn't played with the other guys.


I take it back. The PIRATES got OVER on these guys.

They got Brandon Moss, Andy Laroche, and two other DAMN good prospects.

The Pirates got over HARDCORE on the Dodgers and Red Sox.

Rape :lmao

[tlongII]

Stupid trade by the Dodgers. The McCourts are New England natives and therefore have a hankering for anything Red Sox. They made a big mistake.

[T Park]

Moss is a good player, LaRoche is gonna be REALLY good. The other two have great potential as well.

4 great prospects for Jason "Mr Overrated" Bay. Nice job Pittsburgh :tu

[T Park]

Rape :lmao

For the guys they got, for who they gave up? Hell yes.

Wow the Dodgers and Red Sox went shortsighted hard core here....

[MajorMike]

Pitt is quickly becoming the new KC in terms of being a farm team for the rest of the ML.

[T Park]

I agree, but they got some damn good players that can play RIGHT NOW. Especially Laroche and Brandon Moss.

Hell Moss STARTED OPENING DAY for the Red Sox.

[Melmart1]

I suppose the situation with Manny was really that bad that they were willing to pay $7 million to the Dodgers to take Manny. If I calculated right in my head, that is probably most if not all of what he is owed for the rest of the year. So they traded away players and paid his entire salary to get Jason Bay. They were more desperate than we thought, because I really thought they would hang onto him if they were gonna get hosed.

[T Park]

Bryan Morris is another player involved, semi to high rated prospect pitcher.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

I agree, but they got some damn good players that can play RIGHT NOW. Especially Laroche and Brandon Moss.

Hell Moss STARTED OPENING DAY for the Red Sox.


Hell yes The Dodgers screwed up that trade big time.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

I suppose the situation with Manny was really that bad that they were willing to pay $7 million to the Dodgers to take Manny. If I calculated right in my head, that is probably most if not all of what he is owed for the rest of the year. So they traded away players and paid his entire salary to get Jason Bay. They were more desperate than we thought, because I really thought they would hang onto him if they were gonna get hosed.

They should have just sat his ass down.

[T Park]

Steve Phillips is an idiot, but hes spot on.

"I would've sat him down, tried and worked it out, cause NOW, the Red Sox are an even LESSER player."

[T Park]

The Red Sox traded
Brandon Moss, Craig Hansen, for Jason Bay.

Niiiice epic fail there wonder boy :tu

[Melmart1]

They should have just sat his ass down.

No shit. They screwed up bigtime, but it started a year ago. David Murphy is the perfect replacement for Manny - plays the same position, much better glove and though the bat isn't as heavy, he is still on pace to get 90-100 RBIs this year and is much faster and a better base runner. But they gave him up to the Rangers for Eric Gagne, who was a huuuge bust. I have to wonder how reaction in Boston is right now. They could have sat his ass, called Murphy up from AAA (where he likely would have been) and probably been much better than they are now.

[T Park]

The Dodgers, while they gave up wayyy too much, have now made themselves the best team in the NL West.

Manny Ramirez with Martin, Ethier, Kemp, now have a legit to good hitting lineup, with some darn good pitching in Lowe, Penny, Kuroda, and others.

Very very nice trade.

[T Park]

ESPN sounds like a eulogy right now.

"The amazing news (sounding sad) Manny Ramirez, going to Los Angeles..."

[Melmart1]

Yeah, no more winning without hitting ... I believe it was them a few weeks ago that won 1-0 on a walk, stolen base, error and sac fly or something like that. Didn't actually get a hit to score that run.

Hopefully this means more save opportunities for Broxton, too. If so, my fantasy team thanks them as well :)

[T Park]

Ramirez, Ethier, Kemp is a damn good outfield.

All the other players hitting around Man Ram will see their production go up.

For those of us that have Dodger hitters on their fantasy team, this is great news :)

[T Park]

Yeah, no more winning without hitting ... I believe it was them a few weeks ago that won 1-0 on a walk, stolen base, error and sac fly or something like that. Didn't actually get a hit to score that run.

Hopefully this means more save opportunities for Broxton, too. If so, my fantasy team thanks them as well :)


Yeah against the Angels.

Jared Weaver, my fantasy pitcher, pitches UNREAL, and gets the L. While giving up no hits.

That was truly amazing.

[Melmart1]

Yeah against the Angels.

Jared Weaver, my fantasy pitcher, pitches UNREAL, and gets the L. While giving up no hits.

That was truly amazing.

Haha, I got a save from Takashi Saito on that one. Hilarious.

[T Park]

Haha, I got a save from Takashi Saito on that one. Hilarious.

I think that was the week I lost someone 6-4 and one of the categories lost was wins.

I cried a little inside after that one.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

The Dodgers, while they gave up wayyy too much, have now made themselves the best team in the NL West.

Manny Ramirez with Martin, Ethier, Kemp, now have a legit to good hitting lineup, with some darn good pitching in Lowe, Penny, Kuroda, and others.

Very very nice trade.

I agree with you but best team in the NL West :lmao

[Melmart1]

I think that was the week I lost someone 6-4 and one of the categories lost was wins.

I cried a little inside after that one.

Wasn't me. I beat your ass soundly the last time we played. ;)

[T Park]

I agree with you but best team in the NL West :lmao

All it takes is to get in the playoffs.

You get in the playoffs, you have a clutch hitter like Man Ram, you shorten your rotation to Lowe, Penny, and others?

The Dodgers would become a sleeper team to come out of the NL.

[T Park]

Wasn't me. I beat your ass soundly the last time we played. ;)


I have no ass left from this season.

Although I'm doing better this year than last.

[sribb43]

I dont see how the dodgers really got screwed in the deal...the 3b they gave up couldnt even make it up to the BIGS on a team that desperately needed a 3B. Also the Sox are paying Manny's salary. The Dodgers just improved their chances greatly this season. If anyone got screwed it was the Sox

[T Park]

I don't think anyone is saying the Dodgers got screwed....

LaRoche is a damn good 3b, the Dodgers are just idiots for thinking Blake Dewitt is better.

[TheMadHatter]

Angels will win it all this year.

[sribb43]

Angels will win it all this year.

True....I hate Tex but Angels got everything you need to win it...the pitching staff is just sick. Damnit JD for not trading Tex to the Halos last season for Joe Saunders and Kotchman

[T Park]

The Rangers still made out good with the prospects they got.

[Melmart1]

True....I hate Tex but Angels got everything you need to win it...the pitching staff is just sick. Damnit JD for not trading Tex to the Halos last season for Joe Saunders and Kotchman

No way. Kotchman would be blocking Davis, who is tearing it up.

The return from Atlanta was much better, IMHO. And if Salty gets traded in the offseason (which I think is a huge possibility), then we still don't even know the full return just yet.

[ducks]

well d-backs face dodgers 4 staight
is manny playing tonight

big series now especially with manny a dodger

[ducks]

All it takes is to get in the playoffs.

You get in the playoffs, you have a clutch hitter like Man Ram, you shorten your rotation to Lowe, Penny, and others?

The Dodgers would become a sleeper team to come out of the NL.

webb and haren
I take those two aces against any two aces from any team in the mlb

and if you can get them to pitch 2 games each in a series
you can get to the big dance

[ducks]

haren should have atleast 14 wins this season the same as webb

webb vs lowe tonight:hat

[sribb43]

No way. Kotchman would be blocking Davis, who is tearing it up.

The return from Atlanta was much better, IMHO. And if Salty gets traded in the offseason (which I think is a huge possibility), then we still don't even know the full return just yet.

At the time last season, davis was playing 3rd base. he was moved to 1st over the past year. Davis at 3rd/Kotchman at 1b. Instead know you have a utility man in Vasquez playing 3rd and no one in sight to take over that position. Id take a young stud pitcher and a gold glove type 1b for Tex instead of unknowns that we can only hope pan out

[ducks]

oh
dodgers,d-backs and rockies are the only division to have 3 teams win 7 of their last 10 games
and the d-backs are 27-13 in the west

[Melmart1]

At the time last season, davis was playing 3rd base. he was moved to 1st over the past year. Davis at 3rd/Kotchman at 1b. Instead know you have a utility man in Vasquez playing 3rd and no one in sight to take over that position. Id take a young stud pitcher and a gold glove type 1b for Tex instead of unknowns that we can only hope pan out

If I recall, 1B is actually Davis' natural position, but having him play both gives them some versatility.

Still, I would rather have Feliz, Jones, Harrison and Salty over Kotchman and Saunders. More arms, higher overall ceilings and in the case of Salty, either a great hitting catcher (yet to be determined) or great trade bait to get something else you need.

[monosylab1k]

Jon Daniels took the best deal available for Teixeira. No need to bitch about an inferior trade offer from the Angels a year ago.

A year ago everyone (Angels included) thought Saunders was a back of the rotation guy at best. He may still be. One year does not a great pitcher make, otherwise we would have been idiots for dumping Esteban Loaiza all those years ago.

[JamStone]

Manny should make a short film with Steve Nash and move into the Playboy Mansion.

[T Park]

webb and haren
I take those two aces against any two aces from any team in the mlb

and if you can get them to pitch 2 games each in a series
you can get to the big dance


Gotta make the playoffs first.

[PHXSpursFan]

As a Dbacks fan, I'm pretty happy.

[ducks]

Gotta make the playoffs first.

:hat

[IronMexican]

Angels will win it all this year.

Fuck the gaylos

[turiaf for president]

dodgers traded laroche who fell behind dewitt in the depth chart. they didnt have to give up any of the young core, ethier kemp loney and martin. they got manny as a rent a player who can perhaps sign on for an extension after this year. i doubt the dodgers will pick up the 20 mil option on him next year. bottom line is they gave up a kid who was falling in their depth chart and a minor league pitcher for a hall of famer.

[JamStone]

How many years did they sign Andruw Jones for again? If they can just let Andruw Jones go and move Kemp permanently to CF, then maybe they can keep Manny beyond this year.

I wonder what Manny thinks of Joe Torre.

[IronMexican]

How many years did they sign Andruw Jones for again? If they can just let Andruw Jones go and move Kemp permanently to CF, then maybe they can keep Manny beyond this year.

I wonder what Manny thinks of Joe Torre.

We only got him for 2 years.

[TheTruth]

I am confused as to where Manny is going to play for the Dodgers. Their outfield is already fairly stocked.

Andre Ethier
Matt Kemp
Andruw Jones
Juan Pierre

EDIT: nevermind, the haul for Pittsburgh is Craig Hansen, Brandon Moss, Andy LaRoche and a fourth MiLBer. So who gets benched for Manny to play, since he obviously can't DH for the Dodgers.

Andruw Jones is terrible. He'll be sitting.

[turiaf for president]

yea jones is on the books for this year and next.

that deal that made this possible was the red sox agreed to pay manny's 7 mil salary left for this season. so basically the dodgers traded 2 guys who werent gonna be on the team for a while for the free service of manny for this year.

i think they are gonna put pierre and jones on waivers. im pretty sure both will clear waivers which means the dodgers can trade them after the deadline to another team. only way another team would want either one of those is if the dodgers pay some of their salary. i can see pierre getting some interest but i think jones is gonna be a dodger.

hopefully he can turn it around and become the andruw jones of old

[turiaf for president]

yea i see manny kemp and ethier starting in the outfield. infield will be loney kemp nomar blake. once furcal comes back (1 month), nomar sits and becomes utility man. brad penny is coming back soon as well giving them a billingsley, lowe, penny, kuroda, kershaw starting 5. their bullpen is the best in the majors. actually i think the dodgers have allowed the fewest earned runs in the majors. this move along with blake definitely makes them favorites in the west IMO

[bostonguy]

God what a fucking horrible day this has been. Fuck the Red Sox for dealing Manny! FUCK YOU MANNY FOR BEING A LITTLE BITCH!! YOU COULDNT JUST STFU AND JUST PLAY FOR A NEW CONTRACT AND HELP THE TEAM DEFEND THE TITLE? Goodbye playoffs. The offseason is already here. God damn this sucks. My all time favorite player on the Red Sox is gone!! :depressed I have Manny jerseys, autographs, posters etc etc. DAMN IT! THIS FUCKING SUCKS! TIME TO LOAD UP ON THE ALCOHOL! FUCK!!!!

[atlfan25]

Tpark, why are you so down on Jason Bay?

I'm personally a bit upset the Braves couldn't work out a deal for Bay. He would be the perfect compliment to the Braves lineup. A solid outfield bat, perfect 5 hole hitter, and shouldn't command a ridiculous contract when he becomes a free agent.

Oh ya, Andruw Jones does fucking suck. His bat isn't even worth being a pinch hitter this year. Good move by Dodgers for this year.

[Sportcamper]

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:q1vE-h1C6iKZwM:http://espn.go.com/photo/2007/0605/nba_g_popovich_275.jpg

The Dodgers get Manny Ramirez, and don't have to pay him a red cent, for third baseman Andy LaRoche and pitcher Bryan Morris? If there was a MLB trade commission, I'd be on it and I would have voted against it.

[T Park]

Tpark, why are you so down on Jason Bay?

I'm personally a bit upset the Braves couldn't work out a deal for Bay. He would be the perfect compliment to the Braves lineup. A solid outfield bat, perfect 5 hole hitter, and shouldn't command a ridiculous contract when he becomes a free agent.

Oh ya, Andruw Jones does fucking suck. His bat isn't even worth being a pinch hitter this year. Good move by Dodgers for this year.


Why? Because hes a 280 hitter thats a mediocre defensive player.

[Sportcamper]

This really is not much fun if Dr. Jim will not play…:depressed

[Slinkyman]

webb and haren
I take those two aces against any two aces from any team in the mlb

and if you can get them to pitch 2 games each in a series
you can get to the big dance

Wrong, Zambrano and Harden are the best two aces. Not to mention Dempster is a cy young candidate and you easily have the best Trio plus the best damn offense in baseball scoring runs for them.

[ducks]

did not the cubs lose 2 out out of 3 against d-backs
and harden even pitched one game

[IronMexican]

Wrong, Zambrano and Harden are the best two aces. Not to mention Dempster is a cy young candidate and you easily have the best Trio plus the best damn offense in baseball scoring runs for them.

Give me a guy who can stay healthy.


Haren > Harden

Webb > Zambrano.


And I'm a Dodger fan.

[turiaf for president]

^ +1. zambrano is a clubhouse nightmare. harden cant stay healthy.

webb is arguably the best pitcher in the game rite now. haren has shown he has NO 1 stuff as well.

[atlfan25]

Why? Because hes a 280 hitter thats a mediocre defensive player.

The sun rises at noon.

[turiaf for president]

Why? Because hes a 280 hitter thats a mediocre defensive player.

he scored the game winning run and had a nice sliding grab in the 5th inning. yea its just one game but i think the sox will be fine

[ducks]

he failed to help them when they needed it the most

[Tippecanoe]

God what a fucking horrible day this has been. Fuck the Red Sox for dealing Manny! FUCK YOU MANNY FOR BEING A LITTLE BITCH!! YOU COULDNT JUST STFU AND JUST PLAY FOR A NEW CONTRACT AND HELP THE TEAM DEFEND THE TITLE? Goodbye playoffs. The offseason is already here. God damn this sucks. My all time favorite player on the Red Sox is gone!! :depressed I have Manny jerseys, autographs, posters etc etc. DAMN IT! THIS FUCKING SUCKS! TIME TO LOAD UP ON THE ALCOHOL! FUCK!!!!

dude, chill. the sox weren't gonna win all with manny. he was causing way too many distractions. with bay, they at least have a chance to repeat. im sorry he was your favorite player, but you gotta move on. dont go crazy and burn all your manny stuff. he'll be still be remembered as one of the greatest hitters to ever play for the sox.

[Brodels]

I agree, but they got some damn good players that can play RIGHT NOW. Especially Laroche and Brandon Moss.

Hell Moss STARTED OPENING DAY for the Red Sox.

I guess you haven't actually seen Moss and Hansen play. Moss has a chance of sticking as a bottom of the order guy now that he's in the inferior league, but that's really his ceiling. Hansen is a disaster waiting to happen. His mental makeup is questionable, he's known to be a bit of a partier and not the hardest worker, and he's reverted to his shortarm delivery that may very well cause arm trouble. He's been a big disappointment.

The Sox will be fine. They got a player who isn't quite as good offensively as Manny but will play better defense. They got rid of a guy who was causing a ton of problems. And with a number of cost-controlled players on the roster, one of the better minor league systems, and some money to spend in the offseason, they remain the baseball franchise with the most promise over the next five years.

[IronMexican]

Manny with a 4-5 Day:king:downspin:

[ducks]

terrible pitching and managering

[Tippecanoe]

oh wow. i just read the whole thread for the first time. and i have to clear up some misconceptions.

1) The Sox weren't going to win anything with Manny and the way he was behaving recently. He was becoming such a huge distraction that his track record was no longer good enough to keep him around.

2) Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen are not that good. I really like Moss and he's got potential to be a decent everyday OF, but just not with the Sox. He was the 5th OF, and with more than enough depth at OF in the minors (Van Every, Jeff Bailey) and Josh Reddick waiting in the wings, Moss was expendable. Hansen was a first round pick who never figured it out. This may change as he moves into new scenery, but in Boston, he wasnt panning out.

3) It's very possible that this move is not really about winning in 2008, but planning ahead for 2009. The Sox control Jason Bay not only for 2008, 2009, but also 2010, because he still won't be FA-eligible by then. Had the trade not been made, the Sox woulda had to add another LF with a big bat in the offseason (there was no way Theo was picking up those team options), or settle for a Crisp/Ellsbury/Drew outfield, and with the way Ellsbury and Crisp struggling these days, that would've spelled disaster. It's true that the Sox do lose out on draft picks, but in the MLB, even the first rounders rarely pan out.

[Brodels]

oh wow. i just read the whole thread for the first time. and i have to clear up some misconceptions.

1) The Sox weren't going to win anything with Manny and the way he was behaving recently. He was becoming such a huge distraction that his track record was no longer good enough to keep him around.

2) Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen are not that good. I really like Moss and he's got potential to be a decent everyday OF, but just not with the Sox. He was the 5th OF, and with more than enough depth at OF in the minors (Van Every, Jeff Bailey) and Josh Reddick waiting in the wings, Moss was expendable. Hansen was a first round pick who never figured it out. This may change as he moves into new scenery, but in Boston, he wasnt panning out.

3) It's very possible that this move is not really about winning in 2008, but planning ahead for 2009. The Sox control Jason Bay not only for 2008, 2009, but also 2010, because he still won't be FA-eligible by then. Had the trade not been made, the Sox woulda had to add another LF with a big bat in the offseason (there was no way Theo was picking up those team options), or settle for a Crisp/Ellsbury/Drew outfield, and with the way Ellsbury and Crisp struggling these days, that would've spelled disaster. It's true that the Sox do lose out on draft picks, but in the MLB, even the first rounders rarely pan out.

Good post. Moss and Hansen are nowhere near top prospects, and while they may do o.k. in Pittsburgh, they are really pretty fungible. FWIW, I believe Jason Bay will be a free agent after 2009, which means the Sox won't have him under their control after next season (unless he re-signs), but if they don't keep him, they will most certainly offer him arbitration, which would give them the picks they will lose out on with Manny. It will be a year later, but the picks will still have value.

I like Moss, but the Sox did what they had to do, and his path to the majors was blocked. May he do well in Pittsburgh.

[bostonguy]

dude, chill. the sox weren't gonna win all with manny. he was causing way too many distractions. with bay, they at least have a chance to repeat. im sorry he was your favorite player, but you gotta move on. dont go crazy and burn all your manny stuff. he'll be still be remembered as one of the greatest hitters to ever play for the sox.

Nah I wont burn it. I love Manny too much to ever do something like that. We still have quality bats led by Big Papi. It comes down to our pitching. Im moving on already. Just hope this team can have health going for them for the stretch run.

[T Park]

Amazing how the years before when they won with manny being the same way that he wasn't a clubhouse "cancer" this year all of a sudden he is.

:lol

Yeah when Bay chokes in October and Manny is hitting clutch after clutch hit for the Dodgers, go ahead and bump this.

[Whisky Dog]

I can't stand the Sox now. No longer are they the rogue band of misfits (Capt. Caveman and Manny leading the odd ball way), now they're basically Yankee-lite.

I miss the '04 Sox. That was a fun team.

Manny will crush with the Dodgers and Bay will be serviceable but not do much in the playoffs, nothing close to what Manny did.

[ducks]

Amazing how the years before when they won with manny being the same way that he wasn't a clubhouse "cancer" this year all of a sudden he is.

:lol

Yeah when Bay chokes in October and Manny is hitting clutch after clutch hit for the Dodgers, go ahead and bump this.

dodgers have to catch the dbacks
something they have not done yet
the d-backs have owned their division this year

[Tippecanoe]

Amazing how the years before when they won with manny being the same way that he wasn't a clubhouse "cancer" this year all of a sudden he is.

:lol

Yeah when Bay chokes in October and Manny is hitting clutch after clutch hit for the Dodgers, go ahead and bump this.

manny took it to a whole new level this year. he behaved similarly in 2006 as well, and theo worked his ass off to trade him, but couldnt get takers.

[Tippecanoe]

FWIW, I believe Jason Bay will be a free agent after 2009, which means the Sox won't have him under their control after next season (unless he re-signs), but if they don't keep him, they will most certainly offer him arbitration, which would give them the picks they will lose out on with Manny. It will be a year later, but the picks will still have value.

Oh my bad. I read this snippet on baseball prospectus that Bay won't have the 6 years of service time by the end of 2009. But I went to check the numbers myself, and that's dead wrong. He started this season with 4.080 years of service time, so you're right, he's FA eligible after next season.