Careful taking that laptop across the border

[CubanMustGo]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080801/tc_nm/usa_security_laptops_dc;_ylt=AuOksT7P9yfrcJjbfb.qC yADW7oF


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. federal agents have been given new powers to seize travelers' laptops and other electronic devices at the border and hold them for unspecified periods the Washington Post reported on Friday.

Under recently disclosed Department of Homeland Security policies, such seizures may be carried out without suspicion of wrongdoing, the newspaper said, quoting policies issued on July 16 by two DHS agencies.

Agents are empowered to share the contents of seized computers with other agencies and private entities for data decryption and other reasons, the newspaper said.

DHS officials said the policies applied to anyone entering the country, including U.S. citizens, and were needed to prevent terrorism.

The measures have long been in place but were only disclosed in July, under pressure from civil liberties and business travel groups acting on reports that increasing numbers of international travelers had had their laptops, cellphones and other digital devices removed and examined.

The policies cover hard drives, flash drives, cell phones, iPods, pagers, beepers, and video and audio tapes -- as well as books, pamphlets and other written materials, the report said.

The policies require federal agents to take measures to protect business information and attorney-client privileged material. They stipulate that any copies of the data must be destroyed when a review is completed and no probable cause exists to keep the information.

I guess the Fourth Amendment - "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized" - was overturned and nobody told us.

[hater]

this country is turning to shit

[Shaolin-Style]

Holding your data devices for an indefinite amount of time is pretty extreme, not to mention being able to get any data out of it they want at their leisure.

Best not to cross the border seems like, maybe you could just mail yourself a laptop in mexico and that'd be safer. Beats me.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

This is called border authority and has been in place for decades nothing new. Everything that comes through the border is subject to search, fourth amendment is not an issue when entering the country and yes this also pertains to US citizens. You can also look in the constitution article 2 section 8 explains certain provisions pertaining to immigration and international trade and articles entering the country. The border authority is a federal statutory law.

[CubanMustGo]

Come again? There is no Article II, Section 8.

[clambake]

Come again? There is no Article II, Section 8.

you shouldn't have said that. a warrant will be issued.....because you're cuban.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

My bad Article 1 section 8.

[CubanMustGo]

Don't see it there either.

Article I.
Section. 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; [nope]

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States; [nope]

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes; [nope]

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States; [nope]

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures; [nope]

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States; [nope]

To establish Post Offices and post Roads; [nope]

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries; [nope]

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court; [nope]

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations; [nope]

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water; [nope]

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; [nope]

To provide and maintain a Navy; [nope]

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces; [nope]

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; [nope]

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; [nope]

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; — [nope] And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof. [nope]

[Dex]

My bad Article 1 section 8.


Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

That says they're allowed to take our shit and poke their nose into our business just for coming into the country?

I never was a Government buff or anything, so please translate.

[clambake]

That says they're allowed to take our shit and poke their nose into our business just for coming into the country?

I never was a Government buff or anything, so please translate.

the ambiguity running hard on this one. are they siting this article as reasoning?

[Southwest Texas Fan]

Don't see it there either.

Article I.
Section. 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; [nope]

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States; [nope]

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes; [nope]To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States; [nope]

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures; [nope]

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States; [nope]

To establish Post Offices and post Roads; [nope]

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries; [nope]

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court; [nope]

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations; [nope]

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water; [nope]

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; [nope]

To provide and maintain a Navy; [nope]

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces; [nope]

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; [nope]

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; [nope]

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; — [nope] And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof. [nope]

It talks about Naturalization (immigration) and the regulation of commerce. This is where federal statutory law comes into play and 19USC1582 gives customs and immigration more power to examine people, conveyances, luggage etc. It starts with the constitution and yes I know our government charter has been scrapped for while now but border authority and the INA Immigration and Naturalization Act had its beginnings with the constitution

[Southwest Texas Fan]

That says they're allowed to take our shit and poke their nose into our business just for coming into the country?

I never was a Government buff or anything, so please translate.

http://vlex.com/vid/19193910

[Dex]

http://vlex.com/vid/19193910

You win this round, Bond.

I still don't see how the cited section of the Constitution is backing up your claim, but the latter link seems like its pretty cut and dry.

[clambake]

http://vlex.com/vid/19193910

it refers to detention of person or persons. it refers to baggage examination but not confiscation........ambiguous indeed.

[Trainwreck2100]

All you fags better delete the spice girls off of your itunes, or you'll look like a douche when the cops confiscate it.

[CubanMustGo]

it refers to detention of person or persons. it refers to baggage examination but not confiscation........ambiguous indeed.

And it also doesn't say that the Secretary of the Treasury may ignore the limitations placed upon him or any other government agent by the Constitution.

- Does the Sec'y have the right to say "all blacks shall be detained" ?
- Does the Sec'y have the right to say "only people making less than $75,000 a year shall be detained?"
- Does the Sec'y have the right to say "all those who own guns as allowed by the Second Amendment shall be detained?"

I fail to understand what about any of this gives the Sec'y the right to ignore the Fourth Amendment.

[clambake]

And it also doesn't say that the Secretary of the Treasury may ignore the limitations placed upon him or any other government agent by the Constitution.

- Does the Sec'y have the right to say "all blacks shall be detained" ?
- Does the Sec'y have the right to say "only people making less than $75,000 a year shall be detained?"
- Does the Sec'y have the right to say "all those who own guns as allowed by the Second Amendment shall be detained?"

I fail to understand what about any of this gives the Sec'y the right to ignore the Fourth Amendment.

i think it's time americans demand a change in this country's path. Nov may be the last chance to boot this mentality.

[td4mvp21]

Fuck this totalitarian bullshit.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception

[lefty]

One more reason for me not to go to the U.S

[ShoogarBear]

I forget, didn't Communism lose?

[Extra Stout]

The asserted right to search electronic materials without warrant was upheld by the Ninth Circuit of Appeals in the People's Republic of San Francisco, comrade.

[Winehole23]

A federal judge late Wednesday denied the government's motion to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the suspicionless search and seizure of electronics belonging to activist David House when he reentered the U.S. after a vacation.

The American Civil Liberties Union and the ACLU of Massachusetts represent House in a suit charging that the government targeted House based on his lawful association with the Bradley Manning Support Network, an organization created to raise funds for the legal defense of the soldier accused of leaking material to WikiLeaks. The government had asked the court to dismiss the case, arguing that it has broad powers to search and seize laptops, phones and any other electronic device at the border without any justification.


"This ruling affirms that the constitution is still alive at the U.S. border," said Catherine Crump, staff attorney with the ACLU’s Speech, Privacy and Technology Project, who argued the case along with John Reinstein of the ACLU of Massachusetts. "Despite the government's broad assertions that it can take and search any laptop, diary or smartphone without any reasonable suspicion, the court said the government cannot use that power to target political speech."

The decision allows the case to move forward to the evidence-gathering stage, which could reveal why House became the subject of a government inquiry and which government agencies copied or viewed the contents of his laptop, phone and camera.


While the court held that the government does not need suspicion to search a laptop at the border, it also held that the government's power to search was not unlimited. U.S. District Court Judge Denise Casper wrote that the fact that "the initial search and seizure occurred at the border does not strip House of his First Amendment rights, particularly given the allegations in the complaint that he was targeted specifically because of his association with the Support Network." The judge also acknowledged the complaint's allegations that "the search of House's laptop resulted in the disclosure of" the Support Network's supporters and internal communications and that these disclosures "will deter further participation in and support of the organization."
https://www.aclu.org/national-security/judge-rules-favor-bradley-manning-supporter-allows-lawsuit-challenging-laptop

[Wild Cobra]

Damn.

Took almost four years.

How did Obama vote on that as senator again? I forget.

[JudynTX]

One more reason for me not to go to the U.S

Yeah, don't come here. :D

[mouse]

I knew Dusty Garza was upset all his poster left SR but this is a little extrem even for him.

Why would anyone need a laptop in Mexico all thier servers are slow as shit I waited over 18 minutes for a taco.


Not only that as soon as you ask for wifi they say que que? And bring you more salsa.

Complete waste of time if you ask me.

[lefty]

Yeah, don't come here. :D

:lol

[mabrignani]

i saw lefty had posted on this thread and i was hoping hed give his terrorist advice on crossing borders. oh well

[lefty]

i saw lefty had posted on this thread and i was hoping hed give his terrorist advice on crossing borders. oh well

So what does "you have a nice face" means?