Top Four Point Guards In The NBA

[duncan228]

The top five power forwards was fun, I figured we could tear this apart as well. :)

http://blogs.smarter.com/sports/2008/08/08/top-four-point-guards-in-the-nba/

Top Four Point Guards in the NBA
by David Carrillo

A lot is being made of USA Olympic Basketball Head Coach Mike Krzyzewski’s decision not to play Jason Kidd in the final minutes of a recent exhibition game against Russia.

Kidd was supposed to be a leader of the team, who after suffering crushing defeats in the 2004 Olympics in Athens and not winning a major international tournament since 2000, is clearly in need of something. That something was supposed to be Kidd, whose experience and leadership was supposed to help transform the Redeem Team into something closer to the glory days of the Dream Team.

However, the emergence of Chris Paul and Deron Williams has at the very least made Krzyzewski and company question who will receive the bulk of the minutes and how to best integrate the other two into the lineup. What it got me thinking was who the best point guards in the league are.

So I asked myself if I had to start the next season with any point guard; who would it be? Assuming that it was for one year only and the only goal was to win a NBA championship this year, here is my list for the top four.

4] Steve Nash: Nash is difficult to peg because while he has led one of the most prolific offenses this decade, there are some questions about his defense and age. A couple years ago he would have been a lock to be number one on this list, but at age 34 the decision is complicated.

He was second in assists per game last season and has averaged at least 10 since arriving in Phoenix, but his numbers in Dallas weren’t nearly as strong. This makes one wonder how effective he will be in a more traditional offense, like the one he looks to have next year with Shaq.

3] Tony Parker: It is hard to argue against Parker’s resume. Since being drafted 28th overall by San Antonio in 2001, Parker has won three NBA championships and was the NBA Finals MVP in 2007. He works the pick and roll as well as anybody in the league and is deadly around the basket.

One could argue that he has the benefit of playing alongside Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili, but you don’t see the point guards that play with Yao Ming, Kevin Garnett or Dwight Howard on here.

2] Deron Williams: Williams is in a difficult situation. He plays for a franchise that housed one of the all-time greats in John Stockton and Williams was drafted one spot higher than Chris Paul in 2005. As a result, he will be compared to Paul his entire career, but maybe that isn’t such a bad thing.

He only scored about two points less than Paul a game last season and shot slightly better than Paul from the field and from behind the arc. The greatest thing you can say about Williams at this point: it isn’t crazy to argue that one day he ends up with more hardware on his fingers and in his trophy case than Paul.

1] Chris Paul: Even with the high upside of Williams, in the last year no player in the NBA has had their stock rise higher than Paul. He’s played a huge part in reinvigorating not only the Hornets, but the city of New Orleans.

Paul was the biggest reason the Hornets secured a number two seed in the mighty western conference last year and has turned Tyson Chandler into the player the Chicago Bulls hoped he would be. If that wasn’t amazing enough, among point guards last year Paul was a statistical powerhouse – second in scoring, first in steals and first in assists (on a per/game average).

That’s good enough to be number one on my list – and if Team USA wants to bring home the gold – Krzyzewski better have Paul as first on his.

[urunobili]

all west conf... nice... TP is definitively nbr 3.. liked these ranks

[hater]

Nash is definitely still > Parker

Arenas > Parker

parker is probably #6

[lebomb]

all west conf... nice... TP is definitively nbr 3.. liked these ranks


I think its BS :flipoff how can Williams or Paul be ahead of Tony?? They dont have any rings at all........Tony has 3. They also have not come close to being a finals MVP.
This shit is as biased as it gets. :rolleyes

[Spur-Addict]

I'll take D.Will ahead of all.

[lebomb]

Nash is definitely still > Parker

Arenas > Parker

parker is probably #6


Arenas needs to make it thru a year uninjured before you even mention his name. Also, how far did he carry his team into the playoffs? How many finals MVPs does he have. :lmao

[lebomb]

I'll take D.Will ahead of all.


Man, Tony gets NO love.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I think its BS :flipoff how can Williams or Paul be ahead of Tony?? They dont have any rings at all........Tony has 3. They also have not come close to being a finals MVP.
This shit is as biased as it gets. :rolleyes

Because they put up better stats.

[hater]

Arenas needs to make it thru a year uninjured before you even mention his name. Also, how far did he carry his team into the playoffs?

Arenas has been pretty durable until last year.

Parker carries San Antonio? since when?


How many finals MVPs does he have. :lmao

So Parker is better than Nash, Paul, Dwil because he has more finals MVPs?

[Spur-Addict]

Man, Tony gets NO love.

I don't give a shit, i'm being honest on how I prefer my point guards to be. He fits my preferences, PERIOD. It's not like I don't appreciate Tony. Don't twist my words now bud.

[Red Hawk #21]

Deron Williams is the best Pg in the Nba.

[lebomb]

Arenas has been pretty durable until last year.

Parker carries San Antonio? since when?



So Parker is better than Nash, Paul, Dwil because he has more finals MVPs?

How else do you judge players? On accomplishments. The last time I saw Tony vs Williams in the playoffs, I thought Tony outplayed him (2007). Also Tony carried the Spurs during the 2007 playoffs period.

[lebomb]

I don't give a shit, i'm being honest on how I prefer my point guards to be. He fits my preferences, PERIOD. It's not like I don't appreciate Tony. Don't twist my words now bud.

We all have our own opinions. Im not saying Deron isnt good, but his is still green. He hasnt come close to accomplishing what Tony has. Thats like saying Dwight Howard is better than Tim right now. He put up better numbers last year.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Finley>Lebron!

[Kori Ellis]

Nash is definitely still > Parker

Arenas > Parker

parker is probably #6

Explain Arenas > Parker for me.

Arenas = less assists, more turnovers, 8-10% less shooting percentage.

If you just mean he's a better chucker, than that's cool.

Just wondering your logic.

[hater]

How else do you judge players? On accomplishments.

Ok I agree that based on accomplishments Tony is #2. (Nash has 2 consecutive MVPs)

But I doubt most ppl will rank PGs based on past accomplishments. It's all about point guard skill, passing ability, and #s.

based on that, Paul, Dwil, Arenas and Nash are clearly better than Parker

[Spur-Addict]

We all have our own opinions. Im not saying Deron isnt good, but his is still green. He hasnt come close to accomplishing what Tony has. Thats like saying Dwight Howard is better than Tim right now. He put up better numbers last year.

I never said anyone was better than anyone.

[hater]

Explain Arenas > Parker for me.

Arenas = less assists, more turnovers, 10% less shooting percentage.

If you just mean he's a better chucker, than that's cool.

Just wondering your logic.

Arenas is a scoring machine and can score in tons more ways than Parker. On the other hand, Parker has limited ways to score. You clog the lane and parker has to pass it up.

Arenas has range, but he can also penetrate as well as shoot. He's also got 3pt range.

I agree both are not great defensively or passing wise.

It's very close, but I'd give edge to Arenas for being such a scoring machine.

[Kori Ellis]

Arenas is a scoring machine and can score in tons more ways than Parker. He has range, but he can also penetrate as well as shoot. He's also got 3pt range.

I agree both are not great defensively or passing wise.

It's very close, but I'd give edge to Arenas for being such a scoring machine.

You realize that anyone can be a scoring machine if they chuck up a bunch of shots and shoot 42-43% from the floor, right?

[Kori Ellis]

Oh and I agree that DW and CP may be better than Tony right now, stats wise, etc. But Tony is a great fit for the Spurs. Who knows if either of those guys could survive under Pop.

[hater]

You realize that anyone can be a scoring machine if they chuck up a bunch of shots and shoot 42-43% from the floor, right?

I disagree about anyone being a scoring machine. Parker for example would miss a bunch more shots than Arenas and would have lower field goal %.

You clog the lane and Parker has very limited offense. On the other hand, Arenas can still get his shots.

[coachmac87]

1) Chris Paul
2)Baron Davis
3) Deron Williams
4) Steve Nash

[coachmac87]

Explain Arenas > Parker for me.

Arenas = less assists, more turnovers, 8-10% less shooting percentage.

If you just mean he's a better chucker, than that's cool.

Just wondering your logic.

Kori....seriously was Tony Parker offered a 100mil contract???

NO...Arenas is better than Tony Parker

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

1) Chris Paul
2)Baron Davis
3) Deron Williams
4) Steve Nash
Deron & Steve > Baron

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

NO...Arenas is better than Tony Parker

Elaborate.

[urunobili]

TP is da shit y'all haters!

[mrspurs]

each guy has his ups and downs, thou i might add i aint seen a point like CP3 since tiny......ankle breaking,always hitting(on the court),knows where everyone is up to .2 left on the clock and still learning......scary, very scary

[coachmac87]

Elaborate.


Well i already know what your going to tell me.

Tony Parker has 3 rings, a finals MVP and he shoots better FG%.

But Gilbert Arenas is one of the few like Kobe,Lebron and etc to have the ability to take over games.

GMs are not offering Tony Parker 100mil contracts. Tony game is limited, he cant shoot from the perimeter, not at all from 3.

You put Tony Parker on Washington and you wont see the same team, and put Agent 0 with Manu and Timmy you most likely see improvement and you will be like Tony Who?

The only thing Tony can do better than Arenas, is finish around the rim, and thats a maybe

[wildbill2u]

We all love TP and what he means to the Spurs. But Williams and Paul have come along and developed basically after TP's reign. Based on his championships & Final MVP you could have put him at #1 DURING THOSE YEARS.

No one stays #1 forever. Is Kidd still the king? Probably not. Is Nash now #4?

I think the edge is so slight between these guys you almost have to take it by their accomplishments each season. I'd take any one of them to make up our Big 3.

[coachmac87]

OK im switching mine up but people should elaborate why they have their rankings the way they are.

1) Chris Paul- Watch this summer, and we saw what he did in the playoffs to Kidd and Spurs. He finished 2nd in MVP voting

2) Steve Nash- 2time MVP. Hate him or love him he is a true point guard, who can shoot anywhere and gets his teammates involved really well

3) Baron Davis- When healthy he can handle his own against anybody and could be the best in the league. Mav fans know about this guy. He can take over the game himself or set the tempo better than any other PG.

4) Deron Williams- My personal favorite. Can Shoot anywhere has a deadly jumper. 2nd best pick and roll PG behind Nash. But he just does not dominate the games like the other 3. He can control the game but he doesn't dominate.

[Kori Ellis]

Well i already know what your going to tell me.

Tony Parker has 3 rings, a finals MVP and he shoots better FG%.

But Gilbert Arenas is one of the few like Kobe,Lebron and etc to have the ability to take over games.

GMs are not offering Tony Parker 100mil contracts. Tony game is limited, he cant shoot from the perimeter, not at all from 3.

You put Tony Parker on Washington and you wont see the same team, and put Agent 0 with Manu and Timmy you most likely see improvement and you will be like Tony Who?

The only thing Tony can do better than Arenas, is finish around the rim, and thats a maybe

If Tony's contract were up, someone would be offering him a 100M contract.
Tony is a better passer, less turnovers, better defender, and way way better finisher in the lane.

Gilbert Arenas is a better 3pt shooter and chucker.

His career shooting percentage is horrible. When's he's on he's on, but he has his 1-for-16 nights too. I like GA, but he's not light years ahead of Tony like some people think.

[roycrikside]

I'd rank them

1) Paul
2) Williams
3) Nash
4) Davis (as long as he's healthy)
5) Arenas (ditto)
6) Tony
7) Billups

Also, don't sleep on Calderon. Now that he's the full time starter in t-dot, he could have a huge year.

[DespЏrado]

If you seriously don't think Parker would get a near max contract right now you are insane. There is practically no one better available with his skill set and big game experience, and on top of that he's still damn young. Parker could easily get 100 million dollar contract especially in today's market.

The only player I would consider at point over Parker would be Chris Paul...Or if you gave me Lebron and Gibson I might consider trading Parker for Gibson. :lol

[Kori Ellis]

I like Baron Davis alot (when healthy) too ... might be my favorite. But his health has been a question mark for so long (even at UCLA), so he loses out.

[lebomb]

Peoples memory is very short......Tony blew up in 2007, basically carried the Spurs.....he was our leading scorer and knocked down shot after shot after shot. He carried the Spurs thru the playoffs (literally) and won the finals MVP. Two years later............he is not even in peoples top 5 guards in the league. Whatever.

[hater]

I'd rank them

1) Paul
2) Williams
3) Nash
4) Davis (as long as he's healthy)
5) Arenas (ditto)
6) Tony
7) Billups

Also, don't sleep on Calderon. Now that he's the full time starter in t-dot, he could have a huge year.

1) Paul
2) Williams
3) Nash
4) Arenas
5) Davis
6) Parker
7) Kidd
8) Billups
9) AI
10) Calderon

[hater]

His career shooting percentage is horrible. When's he's on he's on, but he has his 1-for-16 nights too. I like GA, but he's not light years ahead of Tony like some people think.

I said it's very close. But I beleive if Arenas was in the Spurs, we would have a lot more offensive options, without giving up anything on defense/passing.

Also Arenas has reputation of ballhog. Yes, but it's not as bad anymore. Jamison and Butler get their points in that team when Arenas plays. So would Duncan and Manu.

arenas > parker by a slight margin.

[WildcardManu]

I like Baron Davis alot (when healthy)

me too... if he wasn't so injury prone, he would be a top candidate

[Texas_Ranger]

Prker > D-Will

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Well i already know what your going to tell me.

Tony Parker has 3 rings, a finals MVP and he shoots better FG%.
No but horrible try, Nostradamus.

But Gilbert Arenas is one of the few like Kobe,Lebron and etc to have the ability to take over games.
So can Tony.

GMs are not offering Tony Parker 100mil contracts.
Because he isn't a free agent.

Tony game is limited, he cant shoot from the perimeter, not at all from 3.
And Gilbert can't pass as well and shoots too much.

You put Tony Parker on Washington and you wont see the same team, and put Agent 0 with Manu and Timmy you most likely see improvement and you will be like Tony Who?
Or you can see a player that gets in the way and develops and attitude problem when he deals with the fact that he's no longer the go-to guy in the clutch.

The only thing Tony can do better than Arenas, is finish around the rim, and thats a maybe
And pass, and handling the ball, and knowing when it's not his time to take the shot.

[spursnatic]

Nash is definitely still > Parker

Arenas > Parker

parker is probably #6 How can you even put Gilbert in there? He is a fucking ballhog, he doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself. I don't think you will ever see him average 10 assist per game. When you think of top point guards? You have to look at assist and points. Not just how many points you can score. Because any top point guard in the league can get 20+ points. But can they get 10+ assist along with it?

[Tully365]

I think Arenas is too immature and selfish to be the leader of a team. He gets caught up in one on one matchups and just forgets about the rest of his team. Last year he sat out almost the entire season, and Washington hardly missed a beat. Shouldn't the absence of a max-type player hurt his team more than that? I think Washington is destined to be a better than average team for the next five years, nothing more, and Arenas will always be more like Dominique or Iverson than Jordan or Duncan, with similar results, i.e., no rings.

[Brutalis]

I still don't understand why Nash got two straight MVP awards.

[rAm]

I think Arenas is too immature and selfish to be the leader of a team. He gets caught up in one on one matchups and just forgets about the rest of his team. Last year he sat out almost the entire season, and Washington hardly missed a beat. Shouldn't the absence of a max-type player hurt his team more than that? I think Washington is destined to be a better than average team for the next five years, nothing more, and Arenas will always be more like Dominique or Iverson than Jordan or Duncan, with similar results, i.e., no rings.

Agreed, I really don't feel like Arenas deserved that contract after what happened. How much more do they expect out of him after what has happened the past few years?

[balli]

The (cool smart) people putting Deron Williams ahead of Paul are right on. Paul might have a slight, slight offensive edge in terms of court vision, TO's, ballhandling, etc. But he also has a HUGE and glaring weakness in his game that is incredibly easy to exploit; his size and defense. Not only the reason Deron has usually won against him, but dominated Paul in the course of getting those wins. Sure Paul can do a few things slightly better than Deron, but at least Deron doesn't have a huge and fatal flaw.

And, respect for Tony Parker, but it's laughable, arrogant and cheezy to claim he is the best in the league. Those of you who are saying it need to get a grip on reality.


I still don't understand why Nash got two straight MVP awards.

Me either. I don't think he should've even been considered for either.

[rAm]

The (cool smart) people putting Deron Williams ahead of Paul are right on. Paul might have a slight, slight offensive edge in terms of court vision, TO's, ballhandling, etc. But he also has a HUGE and glaring weakness in his game that is incredibly easy to exploit; his size and defense. Not only the reason Deron has usually won against him, but dominated Paul in the course of getting those wins. Sure Paul can do a few things slightly better than Deron, but at least Deron doesn't have a huge and fatal flaw.

And, respect for Tony Parker, but it's laughable, arrogant and cheezy to claim he is the best in the league. Those of you who are saying it need to get a grip on reality.



Me either. I don't think he should've even been considered for either.

Too much truth in that post.

[J.T.]

I would have to say, in this order

1. Jacque Vaughn
2. Beno Udrih
3. George Hill
4. Tony Parker

[balli]

4) Deron Williams- My personal favorite. Can Shoot anywhere has a deadly jumper. 2nd best pick and roll PG behind Nash. But he just does not dominate the games like the other 3. He can control the game but he doesn't dominate.


Cool he's your favorite, but I disagree with the last part. He had games like this all the time last year.
hL63VTUXE2w

[timaios]

1a Chris Paul
1b Deron Williams
3 Tony Parker
4 Chauncey Billups
5 Steve Nash
6 Baron Davis

Steve Nash can't defend, he was destroyed by TP in 2008 playoffs.
Steve Nash with a good defense and 3 years younger could be number 1, but it's not the case.

Chris and Deron are the 2 best PG in the NBA today.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

How in the hell is Parker not #1. He destroys Nash every year. He damn there retired Payton while he was in Seattle, He sent CP3 home this year, and he sent Deron home last year. I think Parkers skill are somewhat overlooked because of Manu and TD, but I like Parkers game a lot.

You're really overrating him. Get a clue.

[Spurs Brazil]

Good rank and I agree with Kori. TP is perfect for the Spus system and get along very well with Pop.

[spursfan09]

it seems like some people are rating based on potential instead of actuality. TP is definitly top 5. Glad he is on the Spurs. He is the best pg for the spurs. 3 rings say so.

[barbacoataco]

Some of you people are seriously underrating Parker. After all, Parker outplayed Deron Williams in 2007 series when they were playing HEAD TO HEAD. What better comparison is there?

I really think it is because he is French and most people hate the French.

Also, Parker's defense is underrated. In 2007 he played great defense on Iverson and that was a big part of that series win. He doesn't defend all types of players well, but overall I think he is a better defender than some of these other guys (arenas, nash.)

Most fans just don't understand that Parker's speed (which is unmatched) puts a lot of pressure on opposing defenses. Without that factor the Spurs offense would be pretty weak.

[DANILO DRASKOVIC]

I think its BS :flipoff how can Williams or Paul be ahead of Tony?? They dont have any rings at all........Tony has 3. They also have not come close to being a finals MVP.
This shit is as biased as it gets. :rolleyes
they dont have rings....but they dont play with a Hall of Famer like Duncan or a really, really, really, damn good player like Manu

[Magic_Johnson]

1 CP3
2 Deron
3 TP
4 Baron




10 arenas

[balli]

Parker's a fine player and obviously, he fits into the Spurs system/personnel well, but listen, he's not a true pg and I don't think he's even ever averaged more than 6 something assists per season. When a lot of these other guys are routinely getting 10+ a night (and often more) it really makes it ridiculous to talk about TP as being a better point guard.

As far as the potential thing goes. I'm not rating this based on potential. My ratings are based on ability. Many Parker proponents on the other hand aren't basing their ratings on either potential or actual ability, but rather the Spurs collective accomplishments, which is stupid.

PS. I'd take Parker over Arenas without thinking twice. Baron Davis too.

[Magic_Johnson]

Parker is so underrated.
He was the spurs best player in the playoffs this year.

[Magic_Johnson]

Parker's a fine player and obviously, he fits into the Spurs system/personnel well, but listen, he's not a true pg and I don't think he's even ever averaged more than 6 something assists per season. When a lot of these other guys are routinely getting 10+ a night (and often more) it really makes it ridiculous to talk about TP as being a better point guard.

As far as the potential thing goes. I'm not rating this based on potential. My ratings are based on ability. Many Parker proponents on the other hand aren't basing their ratings on either potential or actual ability, but rather the Spurs collective accomplishments, which is stupid.

The spurs system doesn't allow to have player with 10+ assists.
Parker doesn't have the ball 80% of the time like other pg

[barbacoataco]

Ranking PG's based on their assist per game is stupid. That stat is very much affected by the type of offense team runs. The Spurs don't run as many of the type of plays that generate assists for the pg. But as a team their assist totals are fine. That is not a bad thing.

Look at Nash, whose stats clearly were a result of the type of offense the Suns ran. he didn't have those numbers in Dallas, and he won't have them with the new Suns offense.

For more information, read a book by Bill James, who writes about baseball statistics. The same theories apply to basketball. Basically, a lot of statistics are the product of the environment. For example, a hitter in Colorado has better stats than other ballparks, because of the altitude. that doesn't make him a better hitter.

The proof is in head to head match ups. If one player has better stats than another, but gets outplayed when they play head to head, that is the truth. Parker has always outplayed Nash in matchups. So I don't give two flips who has more assists.

[Bruno]

Here's come the 2008 summer version of the "where Parker ranks among NBA PGs ?" thread.

Spoiler :
- Parker's fans will rank him too high.
- Manu's fans will rank him too low.
- Some people will call him overrated and being a product of Spurs' system.
- Some random undersized posters will call him the greatest PG of the NBA.

[Kori Ellis]

...
- Some random undersized posters will call him the greatest PG of the NBA.

:lol

[timvp]

You put Tony Parker on Washington and you wont see the same teamYou take Arenas off of Washington and they are a better team. As evident by last season. Arenas is a top five overrated player in the league. He's a chucker who doesn't play D and cares little of the team concepts that lead to a winning basketball culture.

Regarding Parker's ranking, I really don't care. First of all, point guard is the only position that depends largely on what situation you are in. Someone like Steve Nash gets the ball about 80% of the time his team is on offense. A player like Parker gets the ball about 25% of the time his team is on offense. You can't compare a point guard in a pick-and-roll offense to a point guard in a motion offense.

Stats and scouting says Nash is a better player than Parker. However, Parker dominated Nash in the playoffs this year so how does that factor in? It's tough to say.

Chris Paul has to be "better" than Parker no matter what criteria you use. Then again, in Game 7 when Paul, West, Duncan and Ginobili folded tent and disappeared, Parker was the lone star who stepped up to the plate.

Depending on how you want to judge point guards, I can say that it is fair to put Parker anywhere from about 10th or 11th to 2nd or 3rd. But really, player positional rankings have little to no bearing on winning championships. While Parker is far from perfect, there aren't three point guards I'd trade him for right now if my ultimate goal is to see the Spurs win the championship.

[Ice009]

I disagree about anyone being a scoring machine. Parker for example would miss a bunch more shots than Arenas and would have lower field goal %.

You clog the lane and Parker has very limited offense. On the other hand, Arenas can still get his shots.

How the fuck do you know what Parker would average if given the same amount of shots as Arenas. He could average 30 a game. You're just guessing and pulling shit out of your ass.

And in 2007 Parker was awesome against the Jazz in the WCF.

[timtonymanu]

IMO

1. Paul
2. D-Will
3. Parker
4. Nash
5. Davis
6. Kidd
7. Billups
8. Arenas

[Obstructed_View]

I think it's a testament to Parker's work ethic that he's even legitimately in this discussion at this point in his career.

[lefty]

TP shouldn't be in the top 4.

That's BS

[mystargtr34]

IMO

1. Paul
2. D-Will
3. Parker
4. Nash
5. Davis
6. Kidd
7. Billups
8. Arenas

Thats a good list, i think the top 5 are perfect, although i would have Arenas above Kidd and Billups and switch Kidd and Billups.

6. Arenas
7. Billups
8. Kidd

And you could probably argue Arenas > Davis

All of Davis, Arenas, Kidd and Billups have pretty poor shooting percentages, but Arenas is the most explosive scorer of the bunch, and i think in todays game, thats more valuable than someone who struggles to score.

[DROB4EVER]

who would put Paul above nash? Nash is hands down the best pg in the game. He can shoot, score, and get 15 ast easy. He has unlimited range on his shot. Paul has trouble if he cant get into the lane, not a good shooter form outside 17ft and.

I would put Williams ahead of Paul, better all around player, not flashy but big strong fast and skilled. Great shooter.

[anakha]

I think it's a testament to Parker's work ethic that he's even legitimately in this discussion at this point in his career.

What he said.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lmao tp finals mvp......

daniel gibson says howdy partner

[mystargtr34]

Nash has about 20 more possessions per game than Chris Paul, and Tony Parker, and just about every PG in the game, thats why his stats look very pretty.

Thats also why he gets abused by TP everytime they go head to head.

Nash was the best point guard in the league for his first 2 seasons in a Suns uniform, but with the emergence of CP3, Deron and even TP... hes 4th best now.

[timtonymanu]

Nash has about 20 more possessions per game than Chris Paul, and Tony Parker, and just about every PG in the game, thats why his stats look very pretty.

Thats also why he gets abused by TP everytime they go head to head.

Nash was the best point guard in the league for his first 2 seasons in a Suns uniform, but with the emergence of CP3, Deron and even TP... hes 4th best now.

i agree.

[vander]

Oh and I agree that DW and CP may be better than Tony right now, stats wise, etc. But Tony is a great fit for the Spurs. Who knows if either of those guys could survive under Pop.

with is Pop's flaw, not theirs. that guy is so damn lucky, if there had never been a Tim Duncan, Pop would have be out of coaching long ago

[underdawg]

with is Pop's flaw, not theirs. that guy is so damn lucky, if there had never been a Tim Duncan, Pop would have be out of coaching long ago

True - he's so lucky to have had so much talent compared to all the other teams for so long. He's had 3-4 All-Stars on his squad every year and had only won 4 championships. If any coach had Duncan, he could probably just put Duncan out there by himself and win championships - jeez.

Get your head out of your ass - Pop has created an atmosphere where players understand the team concept and they are willing to sacrifice stats and even money to play for the Spurs. Not too many teams out there that can say that. You think Phil Jackson would ever want to coach for the Spurs - hell no. He needs at least 2-3 hall of famers to be successful.

[underdawg]

with is Pop's flaw, not theirs. that guy is so damn lucky, if there had never been a Tim Duncan, Pop would have be out of coaching long ago

By the way, Sloan isn't that much different than Pop in his harsh coaching style. D-Will would have probably survived Pop. Without a doubt - Paul is the best pg in the league right now; there's no comparison. Pop would've coached Paul differently than TP because Paul came into the league on the level Pop wanted TP to be at.

[cherylsteele]

It's very close, but I'd give edge to Arenas for being such a scoring machine.
It isn't even close because Arenas isn't a PG, he is a SG.

[ChelsSpurs21]

1. Tony Parker- not just because he's a spur but he can get in the lane better than anybody in the NBA.
2. Jason Kidd-No explanation
3. Steve Nash-Even tho Bruce bowen shuts him down every time we play him
4. Chris Paul-Great passer

[kupogrey]

this thread is just full of win



parker is not the greatest in the league

[MI21]

This is a pet hate of mine.

I really hate when people complain about Tony Parker's assist per game amount and use that as some type of factor to rank him lower than other PG's that get a few more assists per game. You need to look at it in some context.

If you have ever actually watched a Spurs game, you will notice that the offense is certainly not conducive to any single player averaging a shitload of assists. The motion offense lends itself to teamwork, not one man dominating the ball. It generates a high amount of team assists, not individual assists. When they start running the offense through Timmy in the post it's either Tim doing his thing or drawing the double team which leads to multiple passes. A lot of the time it's not the first pass that kills the opposition, it's the second. Once again, that lends itself to high amount of team assists, not a high amount of assists for any one player.

When Tony drives and dishes it's a similar thing. A lot of teams have PG's that get the ball into the lane, kick it out and the shot goes straight up. Anybody who has watched the Spurs knows that they get themselves in trouble by not shooting that type of shot, and overpassing. Bowen with his headfakes, Barry with his passing, Finley when he is going through his long cold streaks passes up shots. Once again, team assists, not individual assists are gained with the way they play. Even the Spurs PnR involving Tony is geared for Tony to score, not the roller. Which leads me to the point that Tony is instructed by the coaching staff to shoot and push the break by himself. Instructed to do so.

It's unfair to expect 10+APG with the style of offense the Spurs run. Put Tony on the Warriors, Suns, Jazz etc and his APG would rise.

Tony Parker fucks up the opposition defense as much as almost anybody in the league, and people want to downplay him because he averages a couple of APG less than players who are in a far better situation in regards to getting assist numbers.

Fuck that. Get a clue.

/endrant

[timaios]

who would put Paul above nash? Nash is hands down the best pg in the game. He can shoot, score, and get 15 ast easy. He has unlimited range on his shot. Paul has trouble if he cant get into the lane, not a good shooter form outside 17ft and.

I would put Williams ahead of Paul, better all around player, not flashy but big strong fast and skilled. Great shooter.

Nash can't defend !

[timvp]

MI21 once again proves he has a master's degree in basketball :tu

[roycrikside]

You take Arenas off of Washington and they are a better team. As evident by last season. Arenas is a top five overrated player in the league. He's a chucker who doesn't play D and cares little of the team concepts that lead to a winning basketball culture.

Regarding Parker's ranking, I really don't care. First of all, point guard is the only position that depends largely on what situation you are in. Someone like Steve Nash gets the ball about 80% of the time his team is on offense. A player like Parker gets the ball about 25% of the time his team is on offense. You can't compare a point guard in a pick-and-roll offense to a point guard in a motion offense.

Stats and scouting says Nash is a better player than Parker. However, Parker dominated Nash in the playoffs this year so how does that factor in? It's tough to say.

Chris Paul has to be "better" than Parker no matter what criteria you use. Then again, in Game 7 when Paul, West, Duncan and Ginobili folded tent and disappeared, Parker was the lone star who stepped up to the plate.

Depending on how you want to judge point guards, I can say that it is fair to put Parker anywhere from about 10th or 11th to 2nd or 3rd. But really, player positional rankings have little to no bearing on winning championships. While Parker is far from perfect, there aren't three point guards I'd trade him for right now if my ultimate goal is to see the Spurs win the championship.

So um... leading the team in points and assists on a bum ankle in Game 7 (as well as Games 5 and 6) is now "folding the tent" ?

That's Ducks worthy.

[timvp]

So um... leading the team in points and assists on a bum ankle in Game 7 (as well as Games 5 and 6) is now "folding the tent" ?

That's Ducks worthy.I'm talking late in the game. Final 18 minutes, Duncan and Ginobili combined to go 0-for-12, IIRC. Paul and West turned the fate of their season over to Jannero Pargo. That's four tent foldings late in the game if you ask me.

[johnny_J_Jackson]

Hey lebomb, shut your french ass up. Parker should be honored to be ranked #3, and if you think Parker is ahead of Paul you should go make love to your mother.

[MI21]

MI21 once again proves he has a master's degree in basketball :tu

Cheers :)

Just pisses me off. Even worse, most of the time it is Spurs fans underating or bagging on Parker. I'm all for being objective and can point out flaws in even TD's game, but some of things you see fans say about Parker make me wonder if people actually watch any of the games.

[ducks]

You take Arenas off of Washington and they are a better team. As evident by last season. Arenas is a top five overrated player in the league. He's a chucker who doesn't play D and cares little of the team concepts that lead to a winning basketball culture.

YEP
Chris Paul has to be "better" than Parker no matter what criteria you use. Then again, in Game 7 when Paul, West, Duncan and Ginobili folded tent and disappeared, Parker was the lone star who stepped up to the plate.

[ducks]

So um... leading the team in points and assists on a bum ankle in Game 7 (as well as Games 5 and 6) is now "folding the tent" ?

That's Ducks worthy.

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[ducks]

Cheers :)

Just pisses me off. Even worse, most of the time it is Spurs fans underating or bagging on Parker. I'm all for being objective and can point out flaws in even TD's game, but some of things you see fans say about Parker make me wonder if people actually watch any of the games.

what are they going to do when tp is the face of the franchise in a couple of years:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[z0sa]

Laugh, because TP will be playing for a French team that pays him PHAT.

[ivanfromwestwood]

Arenas has been pretty durable until last year.

Parker carries San Antonio? since when?



So Parker is better than Nash, Paul, Dwil because he has more finals MVPs?
yes. if im not mistaken parker held his own and played just as well against paul and nash this year and d will in 07.

[Spurtacus]

Parker is fifth. My opinion and I don't really care about your bias opinion.

1. Paul
2. Deron
3. Nash
4. Baron
5. Parker

[Weather Man Bob]

Parker should be at number two.

[Dave McNulla]

scrappy-doo gets top nod.

i think tony could move up.

[tonyisamazing]

I don't like to say this but d-will and paul are the best point guards in teh league

[Tully365]

It's interesting how the point guard position is suddenly in vogue again, even though last year's finals featured two teams whose most unheralded players started at the point-- Rondo and Fisher. Aside from maybe Detroit (and that's a borderline scenario too), when was the last time a team with a classic pass-first PG won it all? All of the great traditional PGs of the past 12 years or so are ringless (Nash, Kidd, Stockton), while the two greatest post players of this era--Duncan & Shaq-- have eight. I certainly have nothing against classic PGs, and wouldn't suggest not drafting one if he was available, but I don't think they are necessary in the least to win a title.

[DROB4EVER]

Nash can't defend !

Nash is a poor defender so is paul!