Fuck Russia!

[cool hand]

http://www.bordalierinstitute.com/images/nuclearExplosion.jpg

[Nbadan]

In Soviet Union, Russia fucks you...

[PixelPusher]

http://www.bordalierinstitute.com/images/nuclearExplosion.jpg

Yeah, well...that's probably a more effective strategy than sending over a flight of B-17 bombers.

[ostrikrool]

I russian. You are a stupid american. We all Fuck you

[ostrikrool]

People of the world. You deceive! World mass media conduct propagation of a false information. Russia DID NOT ATTACK Georgia! 07.08.2008 at 22:00 Georgia has attacked South Ossetia. At 3:30 08.08.2008 tanks of the Georgian armies have entered into city Tskhinvali. Artillery bombardment all the day long proceeded, fights with use of tanks and heavy combat material, both against ossetic armies, and against peace inhabitants were conducted. 1400 civil people already were lost. The Russian peacemakers have arrived to South Ossetia in the evening 08.08.2008 for settlement of the conflict and prompting of the world in republic and protection of the Russian citizens living on territory of South Ossetia. Georgia has attacked South Ossetia on eve of Olympiad, it is top of cruelty and cynicism. Proofs and video-materials look on : http://www.1tvrus.com/ , http://www.1tv.ru/owa/win/ort6_main.main , http://www.rian.ru/ , http://www.vesti.ru/news , http://news.ntv.ru/ , http://www.ren-tv.com/ , http://www.newsru.com/ .We shall tell is not present to WAR!!!

[clambake]

you have many tank go boom.

[Cry Havoc]

People of the world. You deceive! World mass media conduct propagation of a false information. Russia DID NOT ATTACK Georgia! 07.08.2008 at 22:00 Georgia has attacked South Ossetia. At 3:30 08.08.2008 tanks of the Georgian armies have entered into city Tskhinvali. Artillery bombardment all the day long proceeded, fights with use of tanks and heavy combat material, both against ossetic armies, and against peace inhabitants were conducted. 1400 civil people already were lost. The Russian peacemakers have arrived to South Ossetia in the evening 08.08.2008 for settlement of the conflict and prompting of the world in republic and protection of the Russian citizens living on territory of South Ossetia. Georgia has attacked South Ossetia on eve of Olympiad, it is top of cruelty and cynicism. Proofs and video-materials look on : http://www.1tvrus.com/ , http://www.1tv.ru/owa/win/ort6_main.main , http://www.rian.ru/ , http://www.vesti.ru/news , http://news.ntv.ru/ , http://www.ren-tv.com/ , http://www.newsru.com/ .We shall tell is not present to WAR!!!

So that excuses firing ICBMs at Georgia? Is that what passes for a proper response?

[Spurtacus]

I russian. You are a stupid american. We all Fuck you


You sound familiar.

http://www.davidpetersenartworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/ivan-drago.jpg

[Cry Havoc]

People of the world. You deceive! World mass media conduct propagation of a false information. Russia DID NOT ATTACK Georgia! 07.08.2008 at 22:00 Georgia has attacked South Ossetia. At 3:30 08.08.2008 tanks of the Georgian armies have entered into city Tskhinvali. Artillery bombardment all the day long proceeded, fights with use of tanks and heavy combat material, both against ossetic armies, and against peace inhabitants were conducted. 1400 civil people already were lost. The Russian peacemakers have arrived to South Ossetia in the evening 08.08.2008 for settlement of the conflict and prompting of the world in republic and protection of the Russian citizens living on territory of South Ossetia. Georgia has attacked South Ossetia on eve of Olympiad, it is top of cruelty and cynicism. Proofs and video-materials look on : http://www.1tvrus.com/ , http://www.1tv.ru/owa/win/ort6_main.main , http://www.rian.ru/ , http://www.vesti.ru/news , http://news.ntv.ru/ , http://www.ren-tv.com/ , http://www.newsru.com/ .We shall tell is not present to WAR!!!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26090865/displaymode/1107/s/2/framenumber/14/

Yep. No way Russia is attacking Georgia with heavy ordinance. You guys are ALL ABOUT peace. :rolleyes

Fuck you. You're killing innocent people just like the Georgians.

[Nbadan]

So that excuses firing ICBMs at Georgia? Is that what passes for a proper response?

Wait a sec. didn't we fire ICBMs at Iraq killing thousands of innocent civilians?

[Nbadan]

Russia is determined to reclaim its lost ground at the end of the cold war. Russia is also determined to use oil as the spearhead of a new and stubborn superpower. The conflict in Georgia is symbolic and a direct challenge to America and in particular to Bush Administration including Dick Cheney.

It was interesting to see Putin and Bush sitting next to each in Beijing Olympics and chatting with each other as Georgian militia battled powerful Russian Army and Air Force. Russian Military action is not against Georgia. It is against United States of America as Georgia is the new obedient political and strategic satellite of America. snip

Putin wants American money. Madvadev wants America to understand that Russian territories is not Iraq or Afghanistan. Instigating former Soviet Republics will create chaos and war. At the same time, US should not have expected a cake walk like Iraq and Afghanistan in meddling with power-base of a former superpower rich in oil, gas and minerals.

Does America have the will and resource to fight a real powerful enemy? Georgia needs American military to defend itself against Russia. Russia perhaps wants America to intervene so that that can teach Americans a lesson in their own backyard.


India Daily (http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/19883.asp)

[rascal]

What the US did in Iraq is far worse than what is happening in Georgia.

Bush better just keep his hypocrite mouth shut about this. He makes America look bad.

[cool hand]

you don't think the white house knew about this shit......really. this is whats going to get Mccain elected.

[xrayzebra]

Reference thread title. Shall we start with ostrikrool? Buth this may be a long time doing. There are a whole bunch of them.:lol

[Cry Havoc]

Wait a sec. didn't we fire ICBMs at Iraq killing thousands of innocent civilians?

And how many Americans are outraged about it? I know I am.

[Nbadan]

And how many Americans are outraged about it? I know I am.

I would suspect that a majority of Americans would be outraged by it if they were told the truth by the corporate M$M....but the M$M has every incentive to also want to continue the war for higher ratings despite the costs to the American taxpayers and the families of the injured troops who come home with missing limbs or in body bags...

Ask Yourself...

* How many times has the U.S. media covered the millions of Iraqi families living in abstract poverty in neighboring Middle East countries because they are too scared to return to Iraq?

* How much coverage has the M$M given to the walled cities the Bush administration has built in Iraq separating Sunni from Shia - Shia from Kurd? Reagan tore down walls, Bush erected them....

* How much coverage has the M$M given to Iraqi cities decimated by years of war....the millions of women, children and elderly who have been killed?

* How much coverage has the M$M given to illegal oil deals between the Iraqi Kurds and Bush oil cronies?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

And how many Americans are outraged about it? I know I am.

Well, good for you, but like rascal said, Bush should keep his hypocrite mouth shut. This administration no longer has any moral high ground from where to condemn situations like this. Unfortunately, its the price of the Iraq war.

[E20]

Russia..........accent............lol

Everyone do it: say Stravinksy, Mother Russia, Missile with a russian accent.

I go to bed now. I tired.

[Cry Havoc]

Well, good for you, but like rascal said, Bush should keep his hypocrite mouth shut. This administration no longer has any moral high ground from where to condemn situations like this. Unfortunately, its the price of the Iraq war.

I agree on some level. Bush is a hypocrite, but that doesn't excuse Russia's actions.

I'm just sick of war. And it's sad, too, because this is one of the most peaceful periods in human existence. It's good that the media publicizes it, because we need to know. It's just shameful as a species that we are still killing people who are just trying to live their lives. Doubly so that we're the richest and most powerful nation and still taking part in such senseless slaughter.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I agree on some level. Bush is a hypocrite, but that doesn't excuse Russia's actions.

I'm just sick of war. And it's sad, too, because this is one of the most peaceful periods in human existence. It's good that the media publicizes it, because we need to know. It's just shameful as a species that we are still killing people who are just trying to live their lives. Doubly so that we're the richest and most powerful nation and still taking part in such senseless slaughter.

I don't like it anymore than you do. I am fully aware that Russia's actions are fucked up. Believe me when I say I wish the US government's position on the matter held a lot more weight at the moment. Condemning Russia's actions is the right thing to do, but listening to Bush do it is just laughable.

At this point in time, the US can do absolutely nothing about the situation. I say absolutely nothing because condemning it carries no significance anymore. It used to, not anymore though.

Disclaimer for idiots: don't misinterpret what I'm saying. I don't bear any ill will towards America. I'm just telling you how I see the situation.

[velik_m]

I agree on some level. Bush is a hypocrite, but that doesn't excuse Russia's actions.

I'm just sick of war. And it's sad, too, because this is one of the most peaceful periods in human existence. It's good that the media publicizes it, because we need to know. It's just shameful as a species that we are still killing people who are just trying to live their lives. Doubly so that we're the richest and most powerful nation and still taking part in such senseless slaughter.

Blame it on Georgia, they started it...

This is report from day 1:


THURSDAY 7 AUGUST

Georgian forces and separatists in South Ossetia agree to observe a ceasefire and hold Russian-mediated talks to end their long-simmering conflict.

Hours later, Georgian forces launch a surprise attack, sending a large force against the breakaway province and reaching the capital Tskhinvali.

South Ossetian rebel leader Eduard Kokoity accuses Georgia of a "perfidious and base step".

The head of Georgian forces in South Ossetia says the operation is intended to "restore constitutional order" to the region, while the government says the troops are "neutralising separatist fighters attacking civilians".

Russia's special envoy in South Ossetia, Yury Popov, says Georgia's military operation shows that it cannot be trusted and he calls on Nato to reconsider plans to offer it membership.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7551576.stm

[J.T.]

More like fuck America. I'm gonna burn me some flags and break me some laws today.

[hater]

Russians supposed to be protecting a genocide from happening. why can't we beleive them, if they beleived us about the WMDs in Iraq? :lol

[I. Hustle]

Russians talk like Greeks

[cheguevara]

I guess USA is not the only country who can bomb inferior countries for bullshit reasons.

[Ignignokt]

I guess USA is not the only country who can bomb inferior countries for bullshit reasons.

yeah i wish we were back in the decades when it was only idiotic latin commies who were the ones killing their own people for bullshit reasons.

[Cry Havoc]

I guess USA is not the only country who can bomb inferior countries for bullshit reasons.

It's amazing the rap the United States has. We are the least violent world power in history. We have dominated fewer cultures and peoples than any other supreme force in the world before us, and yet we are continually vilified.

I sincerely hope the people of the world realize that our president made the choice to go through with the Iraq war against the people, and that we are continually being screwed by a political system that gives us such viable candidates as John Kerry, Al "would you like fries with your consumerist whore lifestyle" Gore, and Hillary "bow to my ovaries" Clinton. This also involves one party which is so far up the ass of big business that I swear to god they must have blurred vision from seeing back dimples 24/7, and the other is so rife with bickering that I'm sincerely surprised we haven't had a "Senator Fight Club" in the middle of the Capitol building. How awful must your party's ability to rally people be that you lose to Dubya? TWICE? Then again, maybe that Fight Club idea would be good for them. :lmao

Hyperbole aside, I think anyone watching realizes it's clear that the people in this country are waking up and taking an active interest in politics again. Not sure if it's too late to have an effect, but at least we're trying.

Remember though, the first rule of Senator Fight Club is that you don't talk about Senator Fight Club.

The second rule of Senator Fight Club is that you talk to every single media pundit possible to tear your own fellow party member's opinion to shreds.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It's amazing the rap the United States has. We are the least violent world power in history. We have dominated fewer cultures and peoples than any other supreme force in the world before us, and yet we are continually vilified.

I sincerely hope the people of the world realize that our president made the choice to go through with the Iraq war against the people, and that we are continually being screwed by a political system that gives us such viable candidates as John Kerry, Al "would you like fries with your consumerist whore lifestyle" Gore, and Hillary "bow to my ovaries" Clinton. This also involves one party which is so far up the ass of big business that I swear to god they must have blurred vision from seeing back dimples 24/7, and the other is so rife with bickering that I'm sincerely surprised we haven't had a "Senator Fight Club" in the middle of the Capitol building. How awful must your party's ability to rally people be that you lose to Dubya? TWICE? Then again, maybe that Fight Club idea would be good for them. :lmao

Hyperbole aside, I think anyone watching realizes it's clear that the people in this country are waking up and taking an active interest in politics again. Not sure if it's too late to have an effect, but at least we're trying.

Remember though, the first rule of Senator Fight Club is that you don't talk about Senator Fight Club.

The second rule of Senator Fight Club is that you talk to every single media pundit possible to tear your own fellow party member's opinion to shreds.

Good post. :tu

And to add on, I think it also blows that at a time when our country needs a strong leader, we get handed two bad candidates from the parties in power (has been this way for four elections running).

It really is time for a viable third party to take the stage.

[RandomGuy]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26090865/displaymode/1107/s/2/framenumber/14/

Yep. No way Russia is attacking Georgia with heavy ordinance. You guys are ALL ABOUT peace. :rolleyes

Fuck you. You're killing innocent people just like the Georgians.

Russia literally flattens Chechnya, when chechnya does the same thing Ossentia was doing, so it has very little moral authority when it comes to butting in to other nation's civil wars.

[rascal]

It's amazing the rap the United States has. We are the least violent world power in history. We have dominated fewer cultures and peoples than any other supreme force in the world before us, and yet we are continually vilified.

I sincerely hope the people of the world realize that our president made the choice to go through with the Iraq war against the people, and that we are continually being screwed by a political system that gives us such viable candidates as John Kerry, Al "would you like fries with your consumerist whore lifestyle" Gore, and Hillary "bow to my ovaries" Clinton. This also involves one party which is so far up the ass of big business that I swear to god they must have blurred vision from seeing back dimples 24/7, and the other is so rife with bickering that I'm sincerely surprised we haven't had a "Senator Fight Club" in the middle of the Capitol building. How awful must your party's ability to rally people be that you lose to Dubya? TWICE? Then again, maybe that Fight Club idea would be good for them. :lmao

Hyperbole aside, I think anyone watching realizes it's clear that the people in this country are waking up and taking an active interest in politics again. Not sure if it's too late to have an effect, but at least we're trying.

Remember though, the first rule of Senator Fight Club is that you don't talk about Senator Fight Club.

The second rule of Senator Fight Club is that you talk to every single media pundit possible to tear your own fellow party member's opinion to shreds.


least violent world power? You forget about the destruction and almost elimination of all the native American Indian tribes. America was founded on violence. America has been involved in new wars every 30 years or so.

[Cry Havoc]

least violent world power? You forget about the destruction and almost elimination of all the native American Indian tribes. America was founded on violence. America has been involved in new wars every 30 years or so.

Yes. We destroyed the Indians. Horrible? Of course it was. So let's compare. We almost wiped out the Native Americans, many of whom were warring with each other, preventing them from fortifying a unified offensive against the US.

The first major powers, Egypt and Persia... well... their tombs still stand today, built on the backs of slaves because their rulers thought they were deities. Yep. Real peaceful bunch of individuals there.

The first major world power, Rome, conquered nearly the entire European continent and most of the outlying provinces. They decimated people who wouldn't bow to them.

The next great power, the Church, led the crusades. "Kill for us and go to Heaven. Pay money to forgive your sins." Mostly, they raked in cash and killed LOTS of people.

Which leads us to the "greatest" nation on Earth, England, which became a major power in the early 2n millennium and has persisted since then. Along the way, they have crushed neighboring states, enslaved the Scots, enacted some of the most brutal rule ever imposed, waged war with nearly all of Europe, invaded EVERY continent except Antarctica and extended their fist of influence, plunged into Africa with machine-guns, annihilated the Latin American cultures, attacked India, China, and still have more sphere of influence than any nation in the history of the planet.

Almost none of it was done through diplomacy, because they had the bigger guns. If you would have given the rulers of England (even up into the 19th century!) the kind of power that America wields today, we would all be flying their banners, and any nation that didn't would be a smoking hole in the ground.

Not to make light of the deaths of soldiers, but by the sheer numbers, America's modern wars are paltry sums compared to the horrors of the past. We've lost more soldiers in single battles than we have in the entire Iraq war before. There is an account of the history of the machine gun, where ~100 British troops killed tens of thousands of African natives in a single day.

This is, of course, practically nothing compared to the horrors of the Holocaust, which happened in Europe within many of our parents, grandparent's or great-grandparent's lifetimes. Even worse was the lesser known act by the modernizing Soviet Union which resulted in more estimated deaths than the entire World War that was taking place at the same time. It was a few DECADES ago that Europe was busy killing millions of it's own people. And now they presume to judge us for being uncivilized. That's absolute shit, and more hypocrisy than Bush can EVER be guilty of.

I don't mean to play numbers with human lives, but in the grand scheme of things, Europe + Russia has killed (think about this) enough people to fill the entire city of New York in the past 100 years. Consider that for a moment when the US is so reviled for all these "unnecessary civilian casualties".

Our people don't even WANT this war. The European people were busy glorifying war less than 100 years ago, sending their soldiers off with much the same attitude as we hail sports stars today.

THAT is hypocrisy, my friend. Our hands may not be spotless, but they look like Mr. Clean's fucking noggin' next to Europe's distant AND recent past.

[RandomGuy]

THAT is hypocrisy, my friend. Our hands may not be spotless, but they look like Mr. Clean's fucking noggin' next to Europe's distant AND recent past.

Glad you made that point.

Almost all modern nations have some rather nasty things in their past, especially when it comes to the wars that were fought to create those nations.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

It's amazing the rap the United States has. We are the least violent world power in history. We have dominated fewer cultures and peoples than any other supreme force in the world before us, and yet we are continually vilified.

hmm... let's see... since the beginning of the 1900's the US has been involved in World War I, World War II, Korean War, Vietnam War, Gulf War, invading Afghanistan, invading Iraq... yeah, you are definitely a bunch of pacifists.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is good or bad, but it is what it is. American culture has been nurtured on war ever since its inception. I don't think there's been a good 30 years in between America being involved in a war in one way or another.

[Cry Havoc]

hmm... let's see... since the beginning of the 1900's the US has been involved in World War I, World War II, Korean War, Vietnam War, Gulf War, invading Afghanistan, invading Iraq... yeah, you are definitely a bunch of pacifists.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is good or bad, but it is what it is. American culture has been nurtured on war ever since its inception. I don't think there's been a good 30 years in between America being involved in a war in one way or another.

You're putting the World Wars on us? Are you serious? That's ridiculous. Go read a fucking history book. That was started by Europe and almost exclusively a European war. We tried to stay out of it as much as possible. If the Japanese would have bombed Argentina you would have done the exact same thing, had you the naval and air authority to do so.

If the US doesn't involve itself in WWII, France is speaking German right now under facism/Nazism and London doesn't even exist as a city any longer. So yeah, how HORRIBLE of us to come to the defense of our allies and protect nations that support individual freedom.

And when did YOU get off so high and mighty? Ever heard of the Falklands War? Ring a bell? Hmm? No, probably not. Because your country is faultless. :rolleyes

[Brutalis]

Wait a sec. didn't we fire ICBMs at Iraq killing thousands of innocent civilians?

Their government and politics are responsible for the civilians.

Just like ours is responsible for those that died on 9/11. Even though it was an inside job, but that's beside the point.

My point is if Russia flew over and bombed the shit out of Dallas, it's our own fault that civilians die. Our country should have protected them, and done something before it happened. Done what? I don't know. But it is not Russia's fault if 25 thousand civilians turn into dust over it.

I'm sick and tired of these bullshit people whining about the poor Iraqi civilians. Their blood is not on our hands, it's on their leaders hands.

[Indazone]

US forces are stretched too thin in Afghanistan and Iraq. We do not want to get into a confrontation with Russia. We are going to make a lot of noise and at the end of the day, Georgia will get flattened.

But you know what, those stupid screwups in Georgia decided to launch a lighting strike to take over all that breakaway territory and then Russia decides to hold the line and attack Georgia.

Tell me, how is that any different than when the USA attacked Iraq for their invasion of Kuwait? This entire tit-for-tat stuff between Russia and the West is BS. It could have been prevented if the NEOCONS did not push so hard to democratize Georgia, put missles on Russia's doorsteps be it defensive or not, and push all those other Eastern Bloc countries for membership in Nato. That would be equivalent to Russia putting missles in Cuba, and getting Mexico, Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama as part of the Russian Alliance. Yeah, I think we'd be making a lot of noise too.

All this pushing for democracy, and the US way over there has caused a lot of consternation over the projection of US power. Yes I know we are a champion of freedom but c'mon. Do you want peace or do you want war over an ideal of the human condition? I think peace is inherently better than war.

You know a President with a little bit better grasp of diplomacy could have had Putins support. Russia was a friend or supposedly one. Russia advised against the invasion of Iraq and Putin went so far as to tell Bush that the US would get mired in Iraq and there would be a lot of needless deaths and we would spend too much money there. He said spend your time in Afghanistan rooting out the terrorists. Yeah, well guess what? Putin was right about that.

If Bush had listened to Putin built on the good relationships early in Bush's presidency when he said, "I looked into the man's eyes and saw his soul". "I saw a man who means what he says and is honest. I think we can do business with him". We could have had a great relationship with Russia. Why do we need Estonia, Georgia, Kosovo, Poland etc under the Nato flag? If in those early days, Bush had helped Putin and helped them economically and worked together on terrorism, and not insisted that all these countries be folded into the Western Power Bloc, we would not be having this stupid Georgia war today.

[I. Hustle]

:lol @ politics

[Anti.Hero]

hmm... let's see... since the beginning of the 1900's the US has been involved in World War I, World War II, Korean War, Vietnam War, Gulf War, invading Afghanistan, invading Iraq... yeah, you are definitely a bunch of pacifists.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is good or bad, but it is what it is. American culture has been nurtured on war ever since its inception. I don't think there's been a good 30 years in between America being involved in a war in one way or another.

LOL, if America were really the villains foreigners portray them to be...this entire hemisphere would be United States of America.

It's too bad Sparta fell. Sure they'd be communists, but wow what an ally they would make!

America is no where close to the empires of old. I guess nukes have something to do with that...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

hmm... let's see... since the beginning of the 1900's the US has been involved in World War I, World War II, Korean War, Vietnam War, Gulf War, invading Afghanistan, invading Iraq... yeah, you are definitely a bunch of pacifists.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is good or bad, but it is what it is. American culture has been nurtured on war ever since its inception. I don't think there's been a good 30 years in between America being involved in a war in one way or another.

We had to be dragged into WWI, WWII, Korea, and had the mandate of the entire U.N. for the Gulf War.

Afghanistan was in response to 9/11.

You missed his point completely, but that doesn't surprise me.

[Cry Havoc]

LOL, if America were really the villains foreigners portray them to be...this entire hemisphere would be United States of America.

It's too bad Sparta fell. Sure they'd be communists, but wow what an ally they would make!

America is no where close to the empires of old. I guess nukes have something to do with that...

Hemisphere? Try globe. Aside from Russia, the United States wields more power than the rest of the world combined in military. That's not even a GOOD thing, but it simply means we are the FIRST nation in the history of the world to have the power to completely overrun the world with their military... and not actually attempt to conquer the world.

The US is the most restrained power in the history of the world. We, at one point, had the largest disparity between economic, military, and political power at the same time that has ever existed. Even though we're "in decline" now, we are still far more dominant than any other country, and it takes an entire continent to actively compete with us (the EU).

So yes. Continue to demonize the US. Because you can, you are free to. If we were any other power at any other point in history, you would all have portraits of George W. Fucking Bush hanging in your room. The US and the UK saved the world from Hitler. What the fuck has your country done lately?

[Tully365]

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

Nice quote from the original funder of Osama Bin Laden and the Mujahadeen.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Nice quote from the original funder of Osama Bin Laden and the Mujahadeen.

Actually there was nothing wrong with that decision, it was made during the Cold War when we were trying to contain the USSR.

The problem was us turning our backs on Afghanistan after it was over.

[Nbadan]

Actually there was nothing wrong with that decision, it was made during the Cold War when we were trying to contain the USSR.

The problem was us turning our backs on Afghanistan after it was over.

No wrong except we trained the Mujahadeen in American military techniques and strategery explosives, and weapons that they've used against us in Afghanistan and Iraq to kill our troops...

[MaNuMaNiAc]

You're putting the World Wars on us? Are you serious? That's ridiculous. Go read a fucking history book. That was started by Europe and almost exclusively a European war. We tried to stay out of it as much as possible. If the Japanese would have bombed Argentina you would have done the exact same thing, had you the naval and air authority to do so.

If the US doesn't involve itself in WWII, France is speaking German right now under facism/Nazism and London doesn't even exist as a city any longer. So yeah, how HORRIBLE of us to come to the defense of our allies and protect nations that support individual freedom.

And when did YOU get off so high and mighty? Ever heard of the Falklands War? Ring a bell? Hmm? No, probably not. Because your country is faultless. :rolleyes

First of all I'm not putting anything on anyone, you're the one jumping to conclusions. I'm not blaming the US for WW I and II. I'm contradicting your assessment that the US is non violent. How can you say that, when you've been involved in more armed conflict in the past hundred years than any other modern world power?

Who the hell said anything about the US being involved in WW II being a horrible thing?? I'm not saying the US is fucking evil, so chill out. I'm saying the US is NOT the non violent super power you're painting yourself out to be.


nd when did YOU get off so high and mighty? Ever heard of the Falklands War? Ring a bell? Hmm? No, probably not. Because your country is faultless.

First of all, since I wasn't criticizing you or America, I hardly think I was being high and mighty. Second, the Falklands, which I hardly think you can consider a war seeing as the English used us for target practice, doesn't really point to us being violent. Short sighted and inept, sure! but violent?? really? I mean, name another "war" Argentina's been a part of in the past 100 years?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

EDIT: Never mind, I'm really not interested in getting into a long ass discussion here. Let's just agree to disagree.

[whottt]

No wrong except we trained the Mujahadeen in American military techniques and strategery explosives, and weapons that they've used against us in Afghanistan and Iraq to kill our troops...




Obviously...we didn't train them for that reason now did we?


That's the stupidest fucking logic ever.


Oh shit...we gave the Russians a bunch of planes and tanks in WWII...I guess we are responsible for the rise of the Soviet Union too....so I guess we're to blame for both ends.


It our fault Dan...it's all our fault, we're the biggest most corrupt evil peace of shit country and people to ever exist on planet Earth.


IT IS ALL OUR FAULT

EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD IS OUR FAULT!!


Just cnp those last two sentences dude...that is the sum total of your political insight. That's all you say, that's all you do...day after day after day after day.

[rascal]

Hemisphere? Try globe. Aside from Russia, the United States wields more power than the rest of the world combined in military. That's not even a GOOD thing, but it simply means we are the FIRST nation in the history of the world to have the power to completely overrun the world with their military... and not actually attempt to conquer the world.

The US is the most restrained power in the history of the world. We, at one point, had the largest disparity between economic, military, and political power at the same time that has ever existed. Even though we're "in decline" now, we are still far more dominant than any other country, and it takes an entire continent to actively compete with us (the EU).

So yes. Continue to demonize the US. Because you can, you are free to. If we were any other power at any other point in history, you would all have portraits of George W. Fucking Bush hanging in your room. The US and the UK saved the world from Hitler. What the fuck has your country done lately?


Wrong
The US could not win a war against the rest of the world. Your arrogance needs to stop. There would be too many military numbers against the US.

[rascal]

First of all I'm not putting anything on anyone, you're the one jumping to conclusions. I'm not blaming the US for WW I and II. I'm contradicting your assessment that the US is non violent. How can you say that, when you've been involved in more armed conflict in the past hundred years than any other modern world power?

Who the hell said anything about the US being involved in WW II being a horrible thing?? I'm not saying the US is fucking evil, so chill out. I'm saying the US is NOT the non violent super power you're painting yourself out to be.



First of all, since I wasn't criticizing you or America, I hardly think I was being high and mighty. Second, the Falklands, which I hardly think you can consider a war seeing as the English used us for target practice, doesn't really point to us being violent. Short sighted and inept, sure! but violent?? really? I mean, name another "war" Argentina's been a part of in the past 100 years?


Agree with you. He totally spun the meaning of the original argument, which is that the US is nonviolent, into other things.

[Cry Havoc]

Agree with you. He totally spun the meaning of the original argument, which is that the US is nonviolent, into other things.

Wrong. Patently wrong.

My initial statement was, "The US is the least violent world power that has ever existed. That we are the first with the power to take over all or much of the globe (easily the entire Western Hemisphere), and not actually do so."

His comment basically amounted to "Nuh uh you guys like war! You're SO violent."

My response is that we have been in several armed conflicts in which we were defending our allies. If a friend gets hit by a bully and you jump in to defend him, does that make you a violent person? And if so, what is the point of bringing that up? He's contradicting me for no reason other than to play the advocate without anything meaningful to say, especially considering I never said we were a non-violent power in the first place.

[Cry Havoc]

First of all I'm not putting anything on anyone, you're the one jumping to conclusions. I'm not blaming the US for WW I and II. I'm contradicting your assessment that the US is non violent. How can you say that, when you've been involved in more armed conflict in the past hundred years than any other modern world power?

Who the hell said anything about the US being involved in WW II being a horrible thing?? I'm not saying the US is fucking evil, so chill out. I'm saying the US is NOT the non violent super power you're painting yourself out to be.

Perhaps you should actually read what I say before spouting such negatively charged retorts. I never stated that we were non-violent.


First of all, since I wasn't criticizing you or America, I hardly think I was being high and mighty. Second, the Falklands, which I hardly think you can consider a war seeing as the English used us for target practice, doesn't really point to us being violent. Short sighted and inept, sure! but violent?? really? I mean, name another "war" Argentina's been a part of in the past 100 years?

Argentina invaded South Georgia without provocation. But yeah, you were definitely innocent there. :rolleyes

You guys don't have the manpower to facilitate a real war, and any move you would make would instantly be countered by a more powerful country. Of course you aren't going to fight a war you know you'd be crushed in.

[johnsmith]

Great thread. Cry Havoc has laid the smack down.


By the way, whenever you try to argue with Manumaniac, he'll just cry that you are jumping to conclusions and therefore you are wrong whenever you disagree with him.


And he'll always close it by saying "nevermind, I don't want to get into a long argument". Much like his country, he's a pussy.

[Spurminator]

The only way to refute Cry Havoc's argument in this thread is to point out a less violent super power in world history, which nobody has even attempted to do.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The only way to refute Cry Havoc's argument in this thread is to point out a less violent super power in world history, which nobody has even attempted to do.

That's because they can't.

[rascal]

That's because they can't.


Every other country has been involved in fewer wars or major conflicts in the last 150 years.

[rascal]

Civil war, War against the Indians, WW1, WW2, Korean war, Vietnam War, Afghanistan/Iraq

6 major wars or conflicts in 150 years and 1 big Civil war which ended in 1865

yes a real non violent super power

[Spurminator]

The only way to refute Cry Havoc's argument in this thread is to point out a less violent super power in world history, which nobody has even attempted to do.

[Marklar MM]

Civil war, War against the Indians, WW1, WW2, Korean war, Vietnam War, Afghanistan/Iraq

6 major wars or conflicts in 150 years and 1 big Civil war which ended in 1865

yes a real non violent super power

OH ya. WW1 and WW2 were avoidable. :rolleyes We stayed out of both wars until there was no other option. 1 until the Germans sank an American passenger ship. 2 after Pearl Harbor. Oh...and the Korean War was a UN effort.

How about Russia? WW1, WW2, took part in the Korean War, had a role in Vietnam, the Chechen Wars, war in Afghanistan, Crimean War, Russo-Japanese War .

France? WW1, WW2, Indochina, The Franco-Prussian War, Algerian Rebellion, Crimean War, Korean War.

[Cry Havoc]

Civil war, War against the Indians, WW1, WW2, Korean war, Vietnam War, Afghanistan/Iraq

6 major wars or conflicts in 150 years and 1 big Civil war which ended in 1865

yes a real non violent super power

Still waiting for you to actually read my post and respond intelligently. Pretty tough to do, right?

[cheguevara]

The only way to refute Cry Havoc's argument in this thread is to point out a less violent super power in world history, which nobody has even attempted to do.

How do you define less violent? Less wars? Less deaths? less goverments taken down?

Let's pretend in some aspects USA the is less violent super power in history. That is not really saying much.

[Ignignokt]

How do you define less violent? Less wars? Less deaths? less goverments taken down?

Let's pretend in some aspects USA the is less violent super power in history. That is not really saying much.

What he's saying is that the US is not a colonial power. If you would put down the LaRaza editorial of the Lowrider Magazine and read up on history, you wouldn't have that fucktard on your avatar.

[cheguevara]

What he's saying is that the US is not a colonial power.

thanks for the breaking news :rolleyes

[Spurminator]

Name a dominant world power from any century in the last 2000 years and maybe the debate over what "less violent" means can begin there.

[cheguevara]

Name a dominant world power from any century in the last 2000 years and maybe the debate over what "less violent" means can begin there.

ok now we need to define "world power"

[hater]

Name a dominant world power from any century in the last 2000 years and maybe the debate over what "less violent" means can begin there.

we are the only superpower to use the atomic bomb on enemy civilian population. I think that pretty much disqualifies us as the "least violent" superpower in history. :rolleyes

[Ignignokt]

we are the only superpower to use the atomic bomb on enemy civilian population. I think that pretty much disqualifies us as the "least violent" superpower in history. :rolleyes

Them Romans showed restraint by not dropping the A bomb on the Isles of Brit. :rolleyes

[Spurminator]

we are the only superpower to use the atomic bomb on enemy civilian population. I think that pretty much disqualifies us as the "least violent" superpower in history. :rolleyes


Debatable. Why don't you name a country or empire you think was less violent and we'll see what happens?

[hater]

Debatable. Why don't you name a country or empire you think was less violent and we'll see what happens?

China.

ok, what happens now?

[Spurminator]

I'm just trying to shape this into an actual debate. If someone says America is the least violent world power in history, there are really only two points you can make to argue that claim:

A. They are not, because Country/Empire X was less violent
B. That is irrelevant because times have changed and thus standards of world relations, diplomacy and war justification have evolved

Instead, all you guys can do is talk about wars in which the US has been involved. Unless this is done as a means of contrasting US Military history with another nation's military history, it does nothing to contradict the claim CH made.

[Marklar MM]

Debatable. Why don't you name a country or empire you think was less violent and we'll see what happens?

Mongolians...Nope.
Romans...Nope.
Huns...Nope
Brits...Nope.
Persians...Nope.
Egyptians...Not really.

[Spurminator]

China.

ok, what happens now?


Now those who disagree that China is a less violent super power in world history than the US will bring up Chinese military history in an effort to refute your point.

See? That wasn't hard. Now we're getting somewhere.

[Ignignokt]

Now those who disagree that China is a less violent super power in world history than the US will bring up Chinese military history in an effort to refute your point.

See? That wasn't hard. Now we're getting somewhere.


Yes China was formed democratically, it's like a bunch of random uncle hos got together and said, hey we're china, and it was done.

[Cry Havoc]

China.

ok, what happens now?

Not a superpower. Not even close. They are an emerging power. They have no nor are close to reaching superpower status right now. They do not have the military or the FLEXIBLE economic might to excise their policy on other nations around the world. They are growing economically because of the sheer number of factories they are building, but this is a far cry from being a superpower.

But if you really want to go there:

http://livo.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/stuart-franklin-tianamen-square.jpg

Yeah. That's a fucking peaceful country if I've ever seen one. They're too busy killing and maiming their own people to worry about the rest of the world.

I will give you some credit though. You're the first person who actually made an attempt to answer the question. For that you get some props.

[hater]

Not a superpower. Not even close. They are an emerging power. They have no nor are close to reaching superpower status right now. They do not have the military or the FLEXIBLE economic might to excise their policy on other nations around the world. They are growing economically because of the sheer number of factories they are building, but this is a far cry from being a superpower.

But if you really want to go there:

http://livo.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/stuart-franklin-tianamen-square.jpg

Yeah. That's a fucking peaceful country if I've ever seen one. They're too busy killing and maiming their own people to worry about the rest of the world.

I will give you some credit though. You're the first person who actually made an attempt to answer the question. For that you get some props.

that pic is a bad example. The tank does not run over the guy :D

I don't think anyone can deny China is torturing/killing their own ppl.

But they have not invaded/bombed/killed enemy soldiers and civilians in a scale as large as the USA. (yet) You do realize in the last 5 years alone. there have been from 100,000 to 1 million iraquis killed??

Again, back to my initial point, once you have used the most lethal weapon ever created against an enemy. I don't think you can seriously call yourself the least violent power.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

No wrong except we trained the Mujahadeen in American military techniques and strategery explosives, and weapons that they've used against us in Afghanistan and Iraq to kill our troops...

Yeah, all we need is one of those magic crystal balls to see into the future, and none of this would have happened. I'm sure you'll blame that on Halliburton, Bush, or Big Oil...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Agree with you. He totally spun the meaning of the original argument, which is that the US is nonviolent, into other things.

If were really a violent superpower in the mold of a USSR, or ancient Rome, or back in the days of the Ottoman Empire, we would have nuked everyone after WWII and be living alone in the world (what's left of it).

Seriously, go back to ignorant takes on the hoops board, this isn't the kiddie pool.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Every other country has been involved in fewer wars or major conflicts in the last 150 years.

Um, we're talking superpowers here illiterate boy. There's only been a handful of those in your time frame:

USSR (way more violent than America)
Germany, twice (WWII, WWI)

Then you're back to the Colonial Days, and what America has done in her limited lifespan doesn't have a thing on Colonial France, England, and Spain.

USA has only been a superpower since WWI, and essentially every war we have fought in has been because we came to the aid of an ally (save GWII).

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Civil war, War against the Indians, WW1, WW2, Korean war, Vietnam War, Afghanistan/Iraq

6 major wars or conflicts in 150 years and 1 big Civil war which ended in 1865

yes a real non violent super power

:lmao

Civil War: US was not a superpower, and was fighting itself

Indians? Not a superpower

WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, all assisting our allies.

Afghanistan in reponse to 9/11, an attack on our own soil you dumbass.

Iraq (GWI) was a UN multinational effort in defense of Kuwait.

About the only legitimate war we've instigated is Iraq the second time around.

Seriously, read a fucking history book or something.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

we are the only superpower to use the atomic bomb on enemy civilian population. I think that pretty much disqualifies us as the "least violent" superpower in history. :rolleyes

Yeah, we should have invaded Japan and killed everyone on the entire fucking island. That would have definitely made us less violent.

[rascal]

Um, we're talking superpowers here illiterate boy. There's only been a handful of those in your time frame:

USSR (way more violent than America)
Germany, twice (WWII, WWI)

Then you're back to the Colonial Days, and what America has done in her limited lifespan doesn't have a thing on Colonial France, England, and Spain.

USA has only been a superpower since WWI, and essentially every war we have fought in has been because we came to the aid of an ally (save GWII).

Disagree Take the blinders off and see reality. Don't make claims when the facts support that the US gets involved in wars every 30 years. America does not ride the white horse nor is it any more noble in any way.


The US has only been a superpower militarily really since around WWII about the time they got the Abomb.

[Marklar MM]

The US has only been a superpower militarily really since around WWII about the time they got the Abomb.

Or because every world power was demolished militarily and economically save Russia and the USA.

[hater]

Yeah, we should have invaded Japan and killed everyone on the entire fucking island. That would have definitely made us less violent.

thanks for completely missing the point. :rolleyes

the point is that no matter the reason(self protection), USA has employed the ultimate violence (period) so it cannot be called the least violent empire.

use logic for a change.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Disagree Take the blinders off and see reality. Don't make claims when the facts support that the US gets involved in wars every 30 years. America does not ride the white horse nor is it any more noble in any way.


The US has only been a superpower militarily really since around WWII about the time they got the Abomb.

Blinders? You're the one saying WWI and WWII were examples of the U.S. running amok over the world. We had to be dragged into both conflicts. Are you pissed that we get involved? Would you rather be speaking German right now? Or Japanese.

Forget blinders, you either don't know shit about world history or are wearing the biggest pair of blinders on the forum

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

thanks for completely missing the point. :rolleyes

the point is that no matter the reason(self protection), USA has employed the ultimate violence (period) so it cannot be called the least violent empire.

use logic for a change.

I'm using plenty of logic. Some are arguing on here that we're a violent superpower running around the world jacking everyone up because we can.

I'm not a violent person by nature, but if you break into my home you're going to get acquainted with my 12 gauge in a hurry. Using your logic, I would be a violent person should I happen to kill the intruder. But that's different from me wandering down the street shooting people because I have a gun.

You seem to have problems comprehending this.

[Cry Havoc]

thanks for completely missing the point. :rolleyes

the point is that no matter the reason(self protection), USA has employed the ultimate violence (period) so it cannot be called the least violent empire.

use logic for a change.

No, the ultimate violence would have been bombing the hell out of the Japanese long after they surrendered (for an unprovoked attack on our soil and civilians), landed our troops on their shores, annihilated their cities, raped their women, enslaved their population, and took over the country. We would have had the mandate of the world to do so too, after what they did at Pearl Harbor, and for siding with the Axis Powers in WWII.

That is the standard that EVERY world power before the America has set. Please show me one that hasn't?

Oh, that's right. No one has been able to refute my statement yet. You're just all trying to redirect the argument because you cannot answer the question.


ultimate violence (period)

Really? So that's worse than what the Nazi's did, systematically exterminating 6 million Jews? That's "more violent" than what Stalin did, directly resulting in the deaths of 9 million people of the Soviet Union? Those were the countries that Japan supported. Yeah, you're right. We should have invited them over for tea to promote peace. :bang

[RandomGuy]

Every other country has been involved in fewer wars or major conflicts in the last 150 years.

So if I can find at least one other country that has been involved in more conflicts, you are full of shit on this one?

Ooooh.

You make it too easy.

Let's try, say Russia.

Starting in 1850, a list of wars and major conflicts engaged by Russia:

Crimean War
Caucasus Expansion
Russo-Turkish War
Russo-Japanese war
Polish Rebellion
WW1
Polish-Soviet War
Occupation of the Baltic states
WW2
Hungarian Uprising
Afghanistan
Chechnya

Etc
etc
etc

Lest you think that the tame powers of western europe were not doing anything, you might want to look into the numerous colonial wars and rebellions during the last 150 years.

Wanna try that statement again?

[ThunderStix®]

Wait a sec. didn't we fire ICBMs at Iraq killing thousands of innocent civilians?

:rolleyes

[cool hand]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f5/M1A1_Twin_Bridges_training_area%2C_Republic_of_Kor ea_1-23_Infantry.jpg/751px-M1A1_Twin_Bridges_training_area%2C_Republic_of_Kor ea_1-23_Infantry.jpg

[Nbadan]

Yeah, all we need is one of those magic crystal balls to see into the future, and none of this would have happened. I'm sure you'll blame that on Halliburton, Bush, or Big Oil...

:rolleyes

Stupid is as stupid does - it's not like the U.S. couldn't see that one coming it's just that our own 'intelligence' (an oxymoron for sure but bear with me) took their eyes off the ball because they thought they could continue to control the Mujahadeen, the Pakistani ISI and the Taliban by bribing them with drug money...

[Tully365]

:

Seriously, read a fucking history book or something.

"Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. ...the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent.
During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude..."

-Dwight D. Eisenhower