VSpan looked good for Greece

[DaDakota]

Even though Greece lost, Vassilis Spanoulis looked very quick and played a very nice game.

He plays hard and attacks the basket, if he ever decides to come back to the NBA, there would be a line of teams trying to sign him.

I wish he would come back to Houston, he would replace Rafer by midseason.

DD

[mavs>spurs2]

don't encourage this type of shit..

[DaDakota]

Not encouraging anything the guy can play, and if he really wanted to come back to the states, a ton of teams would be after him.

V-Span come back to Houston baby....Rick Adelman knows how to use a good Pick and roll player like you.

DD

[The Third Man]

Good God, no. Spanoulis is Greek for gaping vagina. Everybody deserves a second chance, but Spanoulis could not have been more of a douchebag when he was with the Rockets. On the merits of his play he didn't deserve minutes in 2006-7, but the worst thing was the sense of entitlement and whining. No coach on earth would tolerate that crap. I would rather have 10 Stephen Jacksons and Ron Artests rampaging in the stands than one of him sulking on the bench. Fuck that mama's boy.

[DaDakota]

What V-Span did was no different than:

1. Steve Francis whining his way out of Vancouver
2. John Elway refusing to play for the Colts
3. Eli Manning refusing to play for the Chargers

etc...etc...etc...etc....

The guy was screwed by JVG, ask yourself an honest question, if you left your country took less money to come to play in the NBA, and then basically got screwed by a vindictive little coach, would you want to come back?

I have no problem with him doing what is best for his career...and sanity......

But now with Rick Adelman, I think he would thrive.

DD

[ivanfromwestwood]

spurs own his right so the only team lining up for his services is the spurs.

[DaDakota]

spurs own his right so the only team lining up for his services is the spurs.

No one has his NBA rights, the Spurs released him....if he leaves Greece he is free to join ANY NBA team.

DD

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

look how strong Billy is.

http://img.breitbart.com/images/2008/8/10/080810173718.f4fvbn38/CPS.NGC70.100808193406.photo01.photo.jpg

He is work on game and also on body all the time. he will keep getting better and better. He is already comparable with Giannakis when he was player. So he is already as good as 2nd best Greek player ever. He will keep getting better and be I think even better than Galis one day.

[Mister Sinister]

What V-Span did was no different than:

1. Steve Francis whining his way out of Vancouver
2. John Elway refusing to play for the Colts
3. Eli Manning refusing to play for the Chargers

etc...etc...etc...etc....

The guy was screwed by JVG, ask yourself an honest question, if you left your country took less money to come to play in the NBA, and then basically got screwed by a vindictive little coach, would you want to come back?

I have no problem with him doing what is best for his career...and sanity......

But now with Rick Adelman, I think he would thrive.

DD
You fool! You'll destroy us all!

[timvp]

DaDakota = Kill Bill = indazone

[mavs>spurs2]

greece lost you little pussy! :lmao

[mystargtr34]

DaDakota = Kill Bill = indazone

Im pretty sure Inda = Kill Bill...

Not sure about DD though.

[stretch]

What V-Span did was no different than:

1. Steve Francis whining his way out of Vancouver
2. John Elway refusing to play for the Colts
3. Eli Manning refusing to play for the Chargers



Steve Francis turned out to be a hell of a player too... at least until injury struck.

John Elway led his team to 5 Super Bowls, winning 2.

Eli also led his team to win a Super Bowl, while making one of the most clutch performances, greatest plays, and biggest upset in NFL history.

You see... despite the whining that these guys may have done, they all were among the top prospects in their drafts (all in the top 3).

V-Span was NEVER thought of that highly, and never will be after the BS he pulled in Houston.

[monosylab1k]

I'd take him in a heartbeat on the Mavericks. It'd be the highlight of our offseason :depressed

[hater]

I'd sign him for the min. He is definitely way better than Vaughn, Hill. its not even close

[DaDakota]

DaDakota = Kill Bill = indazone


Shhhh...we are hunting wabbits.

;)

[/sarcasm]


I doubt he would come back for anything less than $3 million or so a year as he makes at least that now over there.

The guy can play, he just got screwed over by JVG.

I like his aggressive attitude, even Yao Ming said he was an amazing passer.

I hope that he decides to come over to the NBA and prove people wrong one day.

DD

[ivanfromwestwood]

No one has his NBA rights, the Spurs released him....if he leaves Greece he is free to join ANY NBA team.

DDoh i see. i didnt relized he was waived. stupid spurs should have kept him.:bang

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Rockets is get what they deserve for how they treat Billy.

Alston have before been arrest for drunk driving, beat up his girlfriend, and accuse of cut someone with knife in bar. He even get in fist fight with one of his NBA coach.

Now he is get arrest again for drunk driving.

Rockets can have this criminal moron while Spanoulis is best player in Europe. They get what they is deserve.

[ThunderStix®]

Rockets is get what they deserve for how they treat Billy.

Alston have before been arrest for drunk driving, beat up his girlfriend, and accuse of cut someone with knife in bar. He even get in fist fight with one of his NBA coach.

Now he is get arrest again for drunk driving.

Rockets can have this criminal moron while Spanoulis is best player in Europe. They get what they is deserve.

:lmao That "drunk driver" is still ten times better than that worthless Greek scrub.

If Spanoulis is the best player in Europe, thats pretty sad. :lmao

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

:lmao That "drunk driver" is still ten times better than that worthless Greek scrub.

If Spanoulis is the best player in Europe, thats pretty sad. :lmao

If what you say is true then it is most sad thing of all when he beat Team USA nearly by his self.

[DPG21920]

:lmao That "drunk driver" is still ten times better than that worthless Greek scrub.

If Spanoulis is the best player in Europe, thats pretty sad. :lmao

That is wrong, Spanoulis is 10x better than Alston.

[The Third Man]

That is wrong, Spanoulis is 10x better than Alston.

You're just wrong about this. Rafer is a below average NBA point guard, but he's solid. He doesn't turn the ball over very much, runs the offense well and plays pretty good help defense. Spanoulis, on the other hand, was one of the worst players I've ever seen in Houston.

In Europe, he could dominate the ball, drive at will and had the advantage of lanes that keep big players out. In the NBA, Spanoulis was not terribly quick, couldn't run the offense, shot horribly, turned the ball over and got burned on defense at will. Seriously, if you watched any Rockets games in 2007 you would have figured it out.

As bad as Alston shoots at times, Spanoulis was worse (like 31%/17%3pt. worse). Rafer Alston may had some problems on and off the court, but he was nothing like Spanoulis. What made Spanoulis such a little turd was that he didn't take going to the bench as a chance to improve. Carl Landry was nearly cut last year, but he worked and worked until the coaches were forced to play him. Spanoulis had this sense of entitlement that was fucking silly. I don't want to insult vaginas by calling him one again, but I just could not have more contempt for that little cocksucker. All of his apologists see his benching as some sort of conspiracy when he only got what he deserved. I'll tell you this- not a single Rocket player wanted him back.

[DPG21920]

You're just wrong about this. Rafer is a below average NBA point guard, but he's solid. He doesn't turn the ball over very much, runs the offense well and plays pretty good help defense. Spanoulis, on the other hand, was one of the worst players I've ever seen in Houston.

In Europe, he could dominate the ball, drive at will and had the advantage of lanes that keep big players out. In the NBA, Spanoulis was not terribly quick, couldn't run the offense, shot horribly, turned the ball over and got burned on defense at will. Seriously, if you watched any Rockets games in 2007 you would have figured it out.

As bad as Alston shoots at times, Spanoulis was worse (like 31%/17%3pt. worse). Rafer Alston may had some problems on and off the court, but he was nothing like Spanoulis. What made Spanoulis such a little turd was that he didn't take going to the bench as a chance to improve. Carl Landry was nearly cut last year, but he worked and worked until the coaches were forced to play him. Spanoulis had this sense of entitlement that was fucking silly. I don't want to insult vaginas by calling him one again, but I just could not have more contempt for that little cocksucker. All of his apologists see his benching as some sort of conspiracy when he only got what he deserved. I'll tell you this- not a single Rocket player wanted him back.

I watched nearly every single game for every single team, and that includes the Rockets. Alston did a commendable job, but got vastly over rated last year. Say what you will about attitudes and bench and...skill wise Spanoulis is better in every facet of the game than Alston. Not to say Alston can't run the point, but he is not even close to a championship point guard. He does not one thing really well. Even Rondo is a fantastic defender, one of the best. Tony Parker is one of the best finishers. Alston is second and third tier in every aspect of the game.

[The Third Man]

I watched nearly every single game for every single team, and that includes the Rockets. Alston did a commendable job, but got vastly over rated last year. Say what you will about attitudes and bench and...skill wise Spanoulis is better in every facet of the game than Alston. Not to say Alston can't run the point, but he is not even close to a championship point guard. He does not one thing really well. Even Rondo is a fantastic defender, one of the best. Tony Parker is one of the best finishers. Alston is second and third tier in every aspect of the game.

Dude, Spanoulis can't shoot. He turns the ball over too much. He's slower than average. He fouled constantly because he couldn't keep up with this man. He can't get to the basket in the NBA. Also: he's a cuntface. Alston *is* second tier to Tony Parker. Just not to Spanoulis.

[naico]

Spanoulis still looking good against Germany. Greece playing much better than they did against Spain.

[DPG21920]

Wrong. That would be like saying a guy like Gilbert Arenas, who got drafted in the second round, would amount to nothing because of initial assessments. There is an adjustment period, Ginobili in his first year was a success and he only averaged: 7.6 points and shot 43% from the field and 34% from 3. Spanoulis did struggle, but Rafer in his first year played double the minutes, scored the same amount of points and shot 28% from the field and 21% from the field.

[DPG21920]

When you watch them play often, Spanoulis has way more tools on both ends of the floor.

[Tmac&Luther]

What V-Span did was no different than:

1. Steve Francis whining his way out of Vancouver
2. John Elway refusing to play for the Colts
3. Eli Manning refusing to play for the Chargers

etc...etc...etc...etc....

The guy was screwed by JVG, ask yourself an honest question, if you left your country took less money to come to play in the NBA, and then basically got screwed by a vindictive little coach, would you want to come back?

I have no problem with him doing what is best for his career...and sanity......

But now with Rick Adelman, I think he would thrive.

DD

Sorry, but I'm going to have to pull your "your on crack....please stop smoking the fing pipe and posting bullshit" card.

JVG was not the sole reason why Vspan did not make it this league. The guy doesn't have the mentality to play in this league. (sorry, but ah.....saying your the "Tmac of greece" and then going out and tossing away TO's like your handing out condoms at a "planned parenthood" building, while not being able to hit the broad side of a barn shooting wise....... is not being the "next big thing", or the thing that we needed to unseat Rafer Alston.

If he really wanted to play in this league like you say, he could've went over to the Spurs and put in some work (instead of becoming apart of one of the most lopsided trades in recent years), but nooo.....he wanted to be closer to mama :rolleyes and never wanted to play in the NBA again.

The guy was a straight loser with a false sense of entitlement and you want to bash JVG for his failures....that's funny. :lol Please fill me in the next time this guy does anything worth a damn against NBA players.

As far as the, "it's all JVG's (the vindictive little coach) fault"......let's look at that for a second....

JVG raves about Rafer's game and the things he brings to a team and also keeps on saying that until Vspan steps up his game......he belongs on the bench.....

Morey and Adelman trade Vspan for Scola and even though S. Francis and M. James is brought along to challenge Rafer Alston for starting minutes......just like the horrible Jeff (the vindictive little coach) Gundy predicted (under a new and proven head coach) Alston wins the starting job.

now let's move onto Bonzi....

right off the bat Bonzi is put into JVG's doghouse.......JVG says the guy isn't committed to being a winner or staying in shape.

under Rick Adelman (a coach even Bonzi had success with) Bonzi ends up being traded off the team after being a big disappointment and showing a lazy attitude with little to no consistency..........now please fucking tell me, who the hell is calling up Bonzi Wells right now?.......yep that damn vindictive little coach striked again didn't he. :rolleyes

hmm, maybe JVG wasn't the dumbass your trying to paint him to be???

P.S.

Never freaking compare Vspan (and I only call him that is because I don't even know how to spell his damn name) to the players you typed above.......at most "Vspan" would be nothing more than a scrub.

[Tmac&Luther]

When you watch them play often, Spanoulis has way more tools on both ends of the floor.

Spanoulis was nothing, but a soft cry baby who missed his mom's tits that couldn't even get off the bench to challenge Rafer. The guy sucked.

[DPG21920]

Spanoulis was nothing, but a soft cry baby who missed his mom's tits that couldn't even get off the bench to challenge Rafer. The guy sucked.

Have fun with Rafer next year.

[Tmac&Luther]

Have fun with Rafer next year.

Compared to a starting emo little bitch that was Vspan.........I will. That's some weak ass smack your trying to run, it just tickled me and made me laugh.

It's almost like me saying "have fun with Oberto instead of Scola (who would be great next to Duncan) that you traded for that soft ass marshmellow Vspan who BTW isn't even in this damn league and most likely will never be".

[mavfans1000]

mavs windows closing!

[DPG21920]

Compared to a starting emo little bitch that was Vspan.........I will. That's some weak ass smack your trying to run, it just tickled me and made me laugh.

What are you going on about. Ever since Houston traded for Artest there has been an explosion of over confident Houston fans.

No smack, you think you have it so great with Rafer. You stated that. I stated Spanoulis, when motivated is undoubtedly more skilled than Rafer. That is truth, no smack. You are a smug dude to think I would talk trash to you, it is not even worth it. I guarantee I watch 10x more basketball than you and I am giving my unbiased assessment. You realize that Spanoulis cried his way out of San Antonio as well, and made the Scola trade even more lopsided. I have no reason to like him.

[DPG21920]

Compared to a starting emo little bitch that was Vspan.........I will. That's some weak ass smack your trying to run, it just tickled me and made me laugh.

It's almost like me saying "have fun with Oberto instead of Scola (who would be great next to Duncan) that you traded for that soft ass marshmellow Vspan who BTW isn't even in this damn league and most likely will never be".

Ha. Except that we have won with Oberto, what have you won with Rafer or Scola?

Huge difference (besides the championships) is that I am not on here pimping Oberto over Scola. Scola is clearly better than Oberto, and I will admit that. You can not admit that Rafer is not as good as Span.

Have fun with Rafer. Spurs will have fun with Oberto.

[nil.ball]

wow Vspan is jordan like! :wow

[DPG21920]

Childress is no longer in the league, I guess he sucks as well. Spanoulis dropping 23 points and 4 of 6 for 3 leading Greece to a demolishing of Germany with Dirk/Kaman on it.

[nil.ball]

holy shit, MVP MVP MVP! MVP MVP MVP!
this guy should give nba another try.

[DPG21920]

Not Jordan, but as good as Calderon and he is much better than Rafer. I like Rafer to, that is the funny thing. He is an over achiever.

[Tmac&Luther]

What are you going on about. Ever since Houston traded for Artest there has been an explosion of over confident Houston fans.

No smack, you think you have it so great with Rafer. You stated that. I stated Spanoulis, when motivated is undoubtedly more skilled than Rafer. That is truth, no smack. You are a smug dude to think I would talk trash to you, it is not even worth it. I guarantee I watch 10x more basketball than you and I am giving my unbiased assessment. You realize that Spanoulis cried his way out of San Antonio as well, and made the Scola trade even more lopsided. I have no reason to like him.

First of all......(check my join date.....I'm not a "Ron Artest Rocket fan")

Second..Vspan at the NBA level is not more skilled than Rafer......he's just younger and more emo.

Next....stop with the pussy "can't prove crap" guarantee that you watch 10x more basketball that me....because that's laughable, the fact that your Vspan's pivot man and honestly think that with him (- Scola) would help this team proves you don't know what the hell your talking about.

Please pull up one damn example where he proved he was better than Rafer.... PGs in this league are like QBs in the NFL, if you have legit skills and are worth a damn.....a team is going to pull you up..............where's Vspan?, that's right he's crying into his cheerios (mom's bosom....I'm not joking, that was his reason to go back) after failing to make it big.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

You're just wrong about this. Rafer is a below average NBA point guard, but he's solid. He doesn't turn the ball over very much, runs the offense well and plays pretty good help defense. Spanoulis, on the other hand, was one of the worst players I've ever seen in Houston.

In Europe, he could dominate the ball, drive at will and had the advantage of lanes that keep big players out. In the NBA, Spanoulis was not terribly quick, couldn't run the offense, shot horribly, turned the ball over and got burned on defense at will. Seriously, if you watched any Rockets games in 2007 you would have figured it out.

As bad as Alston shoots at times, Spanoulis was worse (like 31%/17%3pt. worse). Rafer Alston may had some problems on and off the court, but he was nothing like Spanoulis. What made Spanoulis such a little turd was that he didn't take going to the bench as a chance to improve. Carl Landry was nearly cut last year, but he worked and worked until the coaches were forced to play him. Spanoulis had this sense of entitlement that was fucking silly. I don't want to insult vaginas by calling him one again, but I just could not have more contempt for that little cocksucker. All of his apologists see his benching as some sort of conspiracy when he only got what he deserved. I'll tell you this- not a single Rocket player wanted him back.


Same lies and craps. You know there is youtube video of when he play with Rockets. Do not make such fool of yourself here.

[Tmac&Luther]

Ha. Except that we have won with Oberto, what have you won with Rafer or Scola?

Huge difference (besides the championships) is that I am not on here pimping Oberto over Scola. Scola is clearly better than Oberto, and I will admit that. You can not admit that Rafer is not as good as Span.

Have fun with Rafer. Spurs will have fun with Oberto.

There's a fucking reason why I won't admit that Vspan is not better than Rafer in the NBA........it's because he's NOT. I'm LMFAO at all the groupies falling in love with this guy. :lol

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Not Jordan, but as good as Calderon and he is much better than Rafer. I like Rafer to, that is the funny thing. He is an over achiever.

Spanoulis is much better even than Calderon I have seen them both many times to know this. Now that some fans is able see him play they start understand what I have been say about him. It is like some sick joke how Van Gundy bench him and Rockets fans talks about him.

[Tmac&Luther]

Same lies and craps. You know there is youtube video of when he play with Rockets. Do not make such fool of yourself here.

Please fill us in on the "same lies same crap", because what that guy typed was the truth.. You obviously don't know what the hell your talking about when it comes to NBA ball.

P.S.

Don't give me shit about "youtube clips" there's youtube clips that could make Darko look like a allstar.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Please fill us in on the "same lies same crap", because what that guy typed was the truth.. You obviously don't know what the hell your talking about when it comes to NBA ball.

You stupid Rockets dumbass fans is now start to learn what mistake you make and is drive you crazy. No team in right mind would ever let such player as Spanoulis go because the coach refuse use him.

Spanoulis is so much better than idiots like Alston and Luther Head is just hilarious thing see how stupid Rockets fan is.

[Tmac&Luther]

Spanoulis is much better even than Calderon I have seen them both many times to know this. Now that some fans is able see him play they start understand what I have been say about him. It is like some sick joke how Van Gundy bench him and Rockets fans talks about him.


Sorry, but this eruo (or whatever the hell he is) just lost his cred card.......Vspan better than Calderon. :rollin

I'm sorry....:rollin don't blame me, I have to get this all out... :lol :lol :lol:rollin:rollin:rollin:lol:lol

That's funny as hell. :rollin

[Tmac&Luther]

Spanoulis is so much better than idiots like Alston and Luther Head is just hilarious thing see how stupid Rockets fan is.

Yeah, that's why the guy couldn't get off the bench........stop being a damn dumbass. :rollin sorry still laughing over you last post..:rollin Vspan being better over Calderon and Vspan just wanted to be with mommy. :rollin

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Sorry, but this eruo (or whatever the hell he is) just lost his cred card.......Vspan better than Calderon. :rollin

I'm sorry....:rollin don't blame me, I have to get this all out... :lol :lol :lol:rollin:rollin:rollin:lol:lol

That's funny as hell. :rollin

Last two times Greece play Spain it was very obvious who is better player.

[Tmac&Luther]

Last two times Greece play Spain it was very obvious who is better player.

Newsflash dumbass, these olympic teams don't = who's the better player/teams. In the NBA when your surrounded by NBA players at every position..(players that can make great play despite being surrounded be great players vs. idiots that can't even get off the bench).....that's what = who's the better PG/player.
:lol

Honestly stop being a "international fan" and wake the hell up.....because if your really trying to suggest that if Vspan was to enter the league tommorrow and average 12 and 7 on 44% shooting everybody here would laugh in your face.

[DPG21920]

First of all......(check my join date.....I'm not a "Ron Artest Rocket fan")

Second..Vspan at the NBA level is not more skilled than Rafer......he's just younger and more emo.

Next....stop with the pussy "can't prove crap" guarantee that you watch 10x more basketball that me....because that's laughable, the fact that your Vspan's pivot man and honestly think that with him (- Scola) would help this team proves you don't know what the hell your talking about.

Please pull up one damn example where he proved he was better than Rafer.... PGs in this league are like QBs in the NFL, if you have legit skills and are worth a damn.....a team is going to pull you up..............where's Vspan?, that's right he's crying into his cheerios (mom's bosom....I'm not joking, that was his reason to go back) after failing to make it big.

I love when it is so easy to point out examples in one sentence that disprove an entire post: BENO UDRIH.

Where did I say that Spanoulis minus Scola makes the Rockets better?
Where is Josh Childress? I guess he can not cut it either...

I have no ties to Spanoulis and would not take him over Parker, but would without a doubt take him over Rafer. I am not enamored with him at all, but do realize he could be a serviceable guard in the NBA.

[DPG21920]

Sorry, but this eruo (or whatever the hell he is) just lost his cred card.......Vspan better than Calderon. :rollin

I'm sorry....:rollin don't blame me, I have to get this all out... :lol :lol :lol:rollin:rollin:rollin:lol:lol

That's funny as hell. :rollin

Smilies are for 8 year old girls.

[ThunderStix®]

Spanoulis is much better even than Calderon I have seen them both many times to know this. Now that some fans is able see him play they start understand what I have been say about him. It is like some sick joke how Van Gundy bench him and Rockets fans talks about him.

You're the one full of crap and lies. "Better than Calderon", yeah... :lmao

Don't give me that "youtube highlight video", anyone can look good in a highlight video.

Rafer Alston is a good player. V-Span is not.

He'll never do anything in the NBA, the best league in the world.


GTHO loser. Troll.

[DaDakota]

23 points and 5 assists today.

2nd leading scorer in the entire tournament at 19ppg (http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/08/olym/men/stat/fe_stat_playLead.asp?competitioncode=&currentpagetodisplay=&fixeddate=&langlc=en&season=&roundID=4004&StatisticsPosition=ALL&StatisticsSection=PPG&StatisticsRoundID=ALL)

If he stayed in Houston, he would have been pushing Rafer as the starter....

JVG was in a contract year, doesn't like players who are risky, he would rather bring in Rick Brunson, or Charlie Ward...players that will do exactly as the little general would ask.

JVG was the worst coach for the Rockets thank GOD he was fired...

As for V-Span, he can play, everyone pissing and moaning about his ROOKIE year, need to take a chill pill.

V-Span did what was right for his career in leaving Houston, where he was caught between a GM who wanted him...Dawson/Morey and a coach that didn't....JVG.....

How would you feel if you took less money to come to the NBA, and then got there and got stuck in a management fued?

Not good I imagine....the Rockets hoped firing JVG would get V-Span back, but the damage was done and he wanted to go back to Greece.

Can't blame him one bit.

And, if he decided to come back to the NBA....teams would be LINING UP to give him a MLE type of deal, the guy can flat out play, and plays hard all the time, something most NBA players do not do anymore.

DD

[endrity]

23 points and 5 assists today.

2nd leading scorer in the entire tournament at 19ppg (http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/08/olym/men/stat/fe_stat_playLead.asp?competitioncode=&currentpagetodisplay=&fixeddate=&langlc=en&season=&roundID=4004&StatisticsPosition=ALL&StatisticsSection=PPG&StatisticsRoundID=ALL)

If he stayed in Houston, he would have been pushing Rafer as the starter....

JVG was in a contract year, doesn't like players who are risky, he would rather bring in Rick Brunson, or Charlie Ward...players that will do exactly as the little general would ask.

JVG was the worst coach for the Rockets thank GOD he was fired...

As for V-Span, he can play, everyone pissing and moaning about his ROOKIE year, need to take a chill pill.

V-Span did what was right for his career in leaving Houston, where he was caught between a GM who wanted him...Dawson/Morey and a coach that didn't....JVG.....

How would you feel if you took less money to come to the NBA, and then got there and got stuck in a management fued?

Not good I imagine....the Rockets hoped firing JVG would get V-Span back, but the damage was done and he wanted to go back to Greece.

Can't blame him one bit.

And, if he decided to come back to the NBA....teams would be LINING UP to give him a MLE type of deal, the guy can flat out play, and plays hard all the time, something most NBA players do not do anymore.

DD


I am not a Kill Bill fan, or a Spanoulis fan, but everyone has to understand that thought up there. Billy came over for much less money, and came in an absurd situation. JVG was not going to play him, period. When you sacrifice so much, and get so little back of course you wanna go back. And in fact he has re-estabilished himself as a top 5 player in Europe probably.

[stretch]

Spanoulis is so much better than idiots like Alston and Luther Head is just hilarious thing see how stupid Rockets fan is.

then he needs to prove it

[Tmac&Luther]

I love when it is so easy to point out examples in one sentence that disprove an entire post: BENO UDRIH.

Where did I say that Spanoulis minus Scola makes the Rockets better?
Where is Josh Childress? I guess he can not cut it either...

I have no ties to Spanoulis and would not take him over Parker, but would without a doubt take him over Rafer. I am not enamored with him at all, but do realize he could be a serviceable guard in the NBA.

Why the hell do you keep bringing up Josh Childress........Josh already proved he could play in this league, but went overseas because a dumb team was willing to severly overpay for his services.

Also it's completely retarded to say Vsuck is better than Rafer when he couldn't even get off the bench on the same team Rafer plays on.........all Vsuck did was sit and sulk like a little girl. Rafer has actually put in his time and has earned where he is right now..........Vsuck, hmm not so much. Vsuck wasn't even the shooter than Rafer is, when he was on the Rockets......and that's just plain sad.

[endrity]

Right now Spanoulis is the third best scored in the Olympics, is the guy who took out the US 2 years ago, and is probably the top PG in Europe.

I think he has proven he is better than Rafer and Head. The fact that he struggled for a season with the Rox says a lot about how disfunctional the Rox were, not just what a whinner Spanoulis is.

[Tmac&Luther]

The fact that he struggled for a season with the Rox says a lot about how disfunctional the Rox were, not just what a whinner Spanoulis is.

Yeah, the high character guys like Yao and Battier just screamed disfunctional........please stop making up excuses for Vsuck. He may be a top PG overseas, but in the NBA he's just a scrub who whines his ass off and can't play a damn lick of defense (which is the main reason why he couldn't get his ass off the bench).

[mavs>spurs2]

spanoulis is suck

greece is suck

kill bill is suck

[monosylab1k]

I am not a Kill Bill fan, or a Spanoulis fan, but everyone has to understand that thought up there. Billy came over for much less money, and came in an absurd situation. JVG was not going to play him, period. When you sacrifice so much, and get so little back of course you wanna go back. And in fact he has re-estabilished himself as a top 5 player in Europe probably.

He didn't want to have to pay his dues in the NBA. Pretty much everybody does it. Manu did it, Parker did it, Dirk did it. They all took their lumps, paid their dues, and went on to be great NBA players. Spanoulis obviously wasn't interested in paying his dues, he wanted the respect of a star player before he became one.

[ThunderStix®]

spanoulis is suck

greece is suck

kill bill is suck

:lmao Any thread or any post by Kill Bill is suck.

[rAm]

:lmao Any thread or any post by Kill Bill is suck.

Kill Bill may seem like a whack job but he brings up some legit points. One of them being most rockets fans are retarded.

That being said he does get a little obsessed with players on his team or in the Euroleague in general, but who isn't obsessed with players of their favorite team. That and the Euroleague is rising up the ranks, so you should stop hating.

[RonMexico]

V-Span is a huge pussy. I can't wait until we destroy them later this week.

[RonMexico]

He didn't want to have to pay his dues in the NBA. Pretty much everybody does it. Manu did it, Parker did it, Dirk did it. They all took their lumps, paid their dues, and went on to be great NBA players. Spanoulis obviously wasn't interested in paying his dues, he wanted the respect of a star player before he became one.

That's a typical Greek attitude. Which is why Team Greece has no current NBA players on its roster.

[DPG21920]

Why the hell do you keep bringing up Josh Childress........Josh already proved he could play in this league, but went overseas because a dumb team was willing to severly overpay for his services.

Also it's completely retarded to say Vsuck is better than Rafer when he couldn't even get off the bench on the same team Rafer plays on.........all Vsuck did was sit and sulk like a little girl. Rafer has actually put in his time and has earned where he is right now..........Vsuck, hmm not so much. Vsuck wasn't even the shooter than Rafer is, when he was on the Rockets......and that's just plain sad.

Where to start...

I bring up Josh Childress because you keep acting like only players who play in the NBA are good. The Euroleague is a very competitive league and there are NBA ready players that play there. Just because a player does not play in the NBA or struggled in his first year does not make him suck. You keep saying Spanoulis has not proven anything; he has in Europe.

Your logic is flawed with your: "if the player is good enough, he will get time". I already pointed out a perfect example that disproves that - Beno Udrih. He is now a starter but could not see the floor for the Spurs. Sometimes a coach and player just do not like each other and since the coach controls playing time, he controls the player. Not to mention how hard it would be for a foreign player to move to a new country and the best league in the world and then have your confidence shot by your coach. Just like in Beno Udrih's case, he had no confidence. Does that mean he just all of the sudden got better on the Kings? No. Same player, different environment and now he is thriving.

[rAm]

Where to start...

I bring up Josh Childress because you keep acting like only players who play in the NBA are good. The Euroleague is a very competitive league and there are NBA ready players that play there. Just because a player does not play in the NBA or struggled in his first year does not make him suck. You keep saying Spanoulis has not proven anything; he has in Europe.

Your logic is flawed with your: "if the player is good enough, he will get time". I already pointed out a perfect example that disproves that - Beno Udrih. He is now a starter but could not see the floor for the Spurs. Sometimes a coach and player just do not like each other and since the coach controls playing time, he controls the player. Not to mention how hard it would be for a foreign player to move to a new country and the best league in the world and then have your confidence shot by your coach. Just like in Beno Udrih's case, he had no confidence. Does that mean he just all of the sudden got better on the Kings? No. Same player, different environment and now he is thriving.

Truth.

[ThunderStix®]

Kill Bill may seem like a whack job but he brings up some legit points. One of them being most rockets fans are retarded.

That being said he does get a little obsessed with players on his team or in the Euroleague in general, but who isn't obsessed with players of their favorite team. That and the Euroleague is rising up the ranks, so you should stop hating.

Fair enough. :lol

[Tmac&Luther]

Where to start...

I bring up Josh Childress because you keep acting like only players who play in the NBA are good. The Euroleague is a very competitive league and there are NBA ready players that play there. Just because a player does not play in the NBA or struggled in his first year does not make him suck. You keep saying Spanoulis has not proven anything; he has in Europe.

Your logic is flawed with your: "if the player is good enough, he will get time". I already pointed out a perfect example that disproves that - Beno Udrih. He is now a starter but could not see the floor for the Spurs. Sometimes a coach and player just do not like each other and since the coach controls playing time, he controls the player. Not to mention how hard it would be for a foreign player to move to a new country and the best league in the world and then have your confidence shot by your coach. Just like in Beno Udrih's case, he had no confidence. Does that mean he just all of the sudden got better on the Kings? No. Same player, different environment and now he is thriving.

Josh Childress already proved himself in this league before he took the rediculous contract...(we'll be back in the nba as soon as he's done cashing in euros)........THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE, that's the reason why your little comparison makes absolutely no damn sense.

Beno Udrih paid his dues and has also PROVEN HIMSELF IN THE NBA. He didn't get down by having to be a bench player and didn't start crying like a baby back bitch................THAT'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

I'm not talking about Vsuck the euro player......Vsuck the euro player is a good player. Vsuck the NBA player is nothing more than a emo little bitch, who acted like he was snatched off his mamas tit. He didn't have the mental (testicular) fortitude to make it in this damn league (unlike the players above). He wasn't willing to pay his dues or compete for a job....he just wanted it handed to him.

For people to come in here and get their panties in a twist, because people said Vsuck was a major bust in the NBA (which he was) and then want to point to what he's done/doing overseas or compare him to successful/established players in this league is so completely assbackwards and retarted......it makes no sense.

Hell even Luis Scola (a proven vet and former euro MVP) didn't get handed a starting job........did he cry like a emotional little bitch.....no he didn't. Instead he paid his dues, shut his damn mouth, and put in his work.......like every damn player has to do, what the hell makes Vsuck so special?

Vsuck has nobody to blame (not even JVG) for his NBA failures, but himself....he's the one to blame, because he wasn't willing to work or fight for a spot on a NBA roster.

[DPG21920]

Josh Childress already proved himself in this league before he took the rediculous contract...(we'll be back in the nba as soon as he's done cashing in euros)........THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE, that's the reason why your little comparison makes absolutely no damn sense.

Beno Udrih paid his dues and has also PROVEN HIMSELF IN THE NBA. He didn't get down by having to be a bench player and didn't start crying like a baby back bitch................THAT'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

I'm not talking about Vsuck the euro player......Vsuck the euro player is a good player. Vsuck the NBA player is nothing more than a emo little bitch, who acted like he was snatched off his mamas tit. He didn't have the mental (testicular) fortitude to make it in this damn league (unlike the players above). He wasn't willing to pay his dues or compete for a job....he just wanted it handed to him.

For people to come in here and get their panties in a twist, because people said Vsuck was a major bust in the NBA (which he was) and then want to point to what he's done/doing overseas or compare him to successful/established players in this league is so completely assbackwards and retarted......it makes no sense.

When did Beno prove himself? This year. He did not do anything while he was with the Spurs. Spanoulis had one year with the Rockets. Only people who do not know basketball judge players on their first year.

[DPG21920]

Beno did get down about not playing, which is why we all saw him partying his ass off in San Antonio every week and not caring anymore.

How can a guy prove himself in the NBA in just one year? You have to get minutes, be in the right environment and play multiple years in order to prove yourself.

[DaDakota]

He didn't want to have to pay his dues in the NBA. Pretty much everybody does it. Manu did it, Parker did it, Dirk did it. They all took their lumps, paid their dues, and went on to be great NBA players. Spanoulis obviously wasn't interested in paying his dues, he wanted the respect of a star player before he became one.
This is mostly true, the difference in all those players is that they played for a coach that was on firmer ground with his organization and understood there was going to be some lumps as they grew.

JVG was in a contract year....and was in win now mode.....and Pop frankly is a much better coach....

So, you have the case of a coach who is unwilling to take a risk on a player who by his very basketball nature is a risky type of player.

It was just a round peg in a square hole.

Truthfully, if V-Span came back to the Rockets (not going to happen) Rick Adelman is the perfect type of coach for him.

He is a guy who started Jason Williams.....a guy who is willing to live with a high risk/high reward type of player and not yank him for every single mistake.

Popovich is similar, though he yanks em.....he puts them back in.....JVG....yanks....and buries em.

:)


Only people who do not know basketball judge players on their first year.

This should be HIGHLIGHTED......lots of players sucked their first year...lots....people making snap judgements are just not thinking it through.

DD

[Tmac&Luther]

When did Beno prove himself? This year. He did not do anything while he was with the Spurs. Spanoulis had one year with the Rockets. Only people who do not know basketball judge players on their first year.

Is this really your response........what a damn joke. The only reason why Vsuck HAD one damn year is because he dragged up and fucking quit. So please don't throw out this garbage.."Only people who do not know basketball judge players on their first year."

I can't stand a quitter.....that's what Vsuck is, a quitter. I'm so happy we were able to trade his contract for a fighter and a gamer which Scola is.

[Tmac&Luther]

Popovich is similar, though he yanks em.....he puts them back in.....JVG....yanks....and buries em.


Give me a freaking break.....if that was true, Luther Head and Chuck Hayes would never of been able to get their asses of the bench. JVG is hard on his players, because he wants/tries to build a mentaly tough team (it had absolutely nothing to do with him being in a "contract year" like your trying to say......that's absolute B.S.).

JVG pushes his players and makes them earn minutes.....if they don't want to play hard and fight for minutes in pracrice (Bonzi and Vsuck) then they won't get minutes..........and I have no problem with that. Give the minutes to the guys that earn them in practice, if Vsuck would've put in his time, he would've got time.......instead he spent most of that time crying to the local media.

[rAm]

Is this really your response........what a damn joke. The only reason why Vsuck HAD one damn year is because he dragged up and fucking quit. So please don't throw out this garbage.."Only people who do not know basketball judge players on their first year."

I can't stand a quitter.....that's what Vsuck is, a quitter. I'm so happy we were able to trade his contract for a fighter and a gamer which Scola is.

He might be a quitter, but maybe he quit because he realized the team he was playing for would never get out of the first round.

[Tmac&Luther]

He might be a quitter, but maybe he quit because he realized the team he was playing for would never get out of the first round.

lamo

[DPG21920]

Its true, people who do not know basketball do not understand that it takes time to grow. Not to say that given minutes everyone can play, but it is just lame to watch a guy like Spanoulis play and then judge him after one year in one of the hardest transitions to make in all of sports. I have already given you plenty of examples that disprove your logic and all you reply with is obscure opinions (Vsuck and Euroleague sucks and he goes to cry in his moms chest). I reply with facts, such as Beno being in the same situation and Childress leaving to play in that "suck" league and Rafer's shooting percentage and scoring in his first year. It is very obvious. It does not make you a bad person, it just means you are a fan of your team and do not understand certain things about the game. There are basketball fans and fans of basketball teams, you are the latter.

[DPG21920]

Give me a freaking break.....if that was true, Luther Head and Chuck Hayes would never of been able to get their asses of the bench. JVG is hard on his players, because he wants/tries to build a mentaly tough team (it had absolutely nothing to do with him being in a "contract year" like your trying to say......that's absolute B.S.).

JVG pushes his players and makes them earn minutes.....if they don't want to play hard and fight for minutes in pracrice (Bonzi and Vsuck) then they won't get minutes..........and I have no problem with that. Give the minutes to the guys that earn them in practice, if Vsuck would've put in his time, he would've got time.......instead he spent most of that time crying to the local media.

Have you ever coached or managed people? I am asking seriously. There is no "universal" method to coaching. All players are different. Some respond to hard ass coaches and some do not. Being a good coach is being consistent in your message of what you are looking for and then getting the most out of your players. You want to push players and challenge them, but you have to have "touch" or finesse as well. Certain players you can push harder than others.

[Tmac&Luther]

Its true, people who do not know basketball do not understand that it takes time to grow. Not to say that given minutes everyone can play, but it is just lame to watch a guy like Spanoulis play and then judge him after one year in one of the hardest transitions to make in all of sports. I have already given you plenty of examples that disprove your logic and all you reply with is obscure opinions (Vsuck and Euroleague sucks and he goes to cry in his moms chest). I reply with facts, such as Beno being in the same situation and Childress leaving to play in that "suck" league and Rafer's shooting percentage and scoring in his first year. It is very obvious. It does not make you a bad person, it just means you are a fan of your team and do not understand certain things about the game. There are basketball fans and fans of basketball teams, you are the latter.

I've already said Vsuck is a good Euro player, but Vsuck the NBA player was a bust. What the fuck do you not understand about that?

There is nothing about the above statement that you can even argue with.......and don't give me this "one year" crap, the reason why he was only in the league for one year, is because he quit.........he fucking quit. Only idiots would be saying the guy was a good NBA player.

[rAm]

I've already said Vsuck is a good Euro player, but Vsuck the NBA player was a bust. What the fuck do you not understand about that?

There is nothing about the above statement that you can even argue with.......and don't give me this "one year" crap, the reason why he was only in the league for one year, is because he quit.........he fucking quit. Only idiots would be saying the guy was a good NBA player.

He might not have been a good NBA player, but maybe that's because he was on a team that can't ever get out of the first round.

[Tmac&Luther]

Have you ever coached or managed people? I am asking seriously. There is no "universal" method to coaching. All players are different. Some respond to hard ass coaches and some do not. Being a good coach is being consistent in your message of what you are looking for and then getting the most out of your players. You want to push players and challenge them, but you have to have "touch" or finesse as well. Certain players you can push harder than others.

There's not many coaches in the NBA that's going to bend down and wipe Vsuck's (a freaking rookie) ass. Sorry, it aint happening. Coaches (almost all of them) want you to come in and work......especially if there's a starting proven vet ahead of you.

Vsuck wasn't able to do that and that's pretty much the end of his NBA story.......it's not that difficult.

[DPG21920]

I've already said Vsuck is a good Euro player, but Vsuck the NBA player was a bust. What the fuck do you not understand about that?

There is nothing about the above statement that you can even argue with.......and don't give me this "one year" crap, the reason why he was only in the league for one year, is because he quit.........he fucking quit. Only idiots would be saying the guy was a good NBA player.

If you can point out at all where I have said he WAS a good NBA player, please post it.

I have clearly stated that you can not judge him by his one year with the Rockets and that he has the basketball skill to be serviceable in the NBA. I have also said that he is better skill-wise than Rafer in every single category of the game. With the exception of ball-handling, maybe.

[DaDakota]

Have you ever coached or managed people? I am asking seriously. There is no "universal" method to coaching. All players are different. Some respond to hard ass coaches and some do not. Being a good coach is being consistent in your message of what you are looking for and then getting the most out of your players. You want to push players and challenge them, but you have to have "touch" or finesse as well. Certain players you can push harder than others.

This is probably the best post in the thread. You can just tell the people that have managed people or teams from others.

Some players/people you have to coddle....others you can grind down and build back up.

DPG, you have made some great points.

Well done sir.

DD

[DPG21920]

Well lets agree to disagree. I am not sure if Spanoulis will ever come back to the NBA, but if he does I am sure he will play well. There are plenty of teams that would welcome him.

[DPG21920]

This is probably the best post in the thread. You can just tell the people that have managed people or teams from others.

Some players/people you have to coddle....others you can grind down and build back up.

DPG, you have made some great points.

Well done sir.

DD

Thanks.

[DaDakota]

I just have a hard time reading people judging a guy over one tough year.

Yes he went home, but so many US players have whined their way out of bad situations, there is nothing different than what V-Span did.

He had some games he stunk, he had some he was average, and he had some where he was outstanding...typical rookie stuff.

If you watch the Olympics and how hard he attacks the basket in the NBA he would LIVE at the FT line with today's rules.

If he decided to come back to the NBA, he would have TONS of suitors.

DD

[RonMexico]

No one doubts that Spanoulis is talented and I thought he would make a bigger splash in the league than he did. He got discouraged and that's probably more of a testament to his weak personality than it is his basketball talent. I watched the guy play a lot (well, as often as he played) because I live in Houston and I couldn't afford NBA League Pass my first year in town. Mostly, he did not adjust quickly to the way NBA officials called the game and a host of other nuances regarding the PG position in the league. Some of this could be JVG's coaching and some of it could be a sense of entitlement because he was a star overseas and a lot of it could be an adjustment period that exists for all NBA rookies, especially ones that have to handle the rock primarily.

Naturally, he could have evolved into a quality NBA PG, but the fact remains that he up and quit, so we can only judge him based on one year in the league because that's all he allowed us to see. I mean, Beno still hung around even though he gave himself welcome home parades back in Slovenia.

[Tmac&Luther]

This is probably the best post in the thread. You can just tell the people that have managed people or teams from others.

Some players/people you have to coddle....others you can grind down and build back up.

DPG, you have made some great points.

Well done sir.

DD

Let's look at the players that the horrible JVG didn't pamper/baby, that got buired on his bench shall we..........

Stomile Swift............he's now a former high draft pick bust and is nothing more than a scrub basketball player who's only good for a couple of highlight reel dunks........he also quite possibly has the lowest Bball IQ in the entire league. He's Radio with a basketball and that's a insult to Radio

Bonzi Wells..........a absolute lazy basketball player who's as consistent as the weather down here in Texas.......he's also currently not even on a damn NBA roster.

Vsuck.......a emotional cry baby who like Bonzi Wells is not on a NBA roster even after his contract was traded to the Spurs (new coach that has had success with foriegn players) he still did not want to play in the NBA.

By my count, JVG was 3 for 3.

I'm sure a successful guy like JVG (a coach that's more successful than you are and anyone else on here) knows when and when not to push buttons, but he also isn't going to put up with laziness or a lack of effort.....which is something all 3 of the players above had in common. To lash out at JVG, because Vsuck was a quitter, missed his mommy, and wanted to go play back home is completely stupid and unfair to JVG.

[DaDakota]

Naturally, he could have evolved into a quality NBA PG, but the fact remains that he up and quit, so we can only judge him based on one year in the league because that's all he allowed us to see. I mean, Beno still hung around even though he gave himself welcome home parades back in Slovenia.

A fair enough point, I just don't see it as quitting. He left a bad situation for more money.

I think almost everyone here would do the same.

:D

DD

[spursnatic]

He can stay over in Greece and play for all I care. He only plays like that for his country anyway.

[DaDakota]

I'm sure a successful guy like JVG (a coach that's more successful than you are and anyone else on here) knows when and when not to push buttons, but he also isn't going to put up with laziness or a lack of effort.....which is something all 3 of the players above had in common. To lash out at JVG, because Vsuck was a quitter, missed his mommy, and wanted to go play back home is completely stupid and unfair to JVG.

Wow, so you know that V-span was lazy? LOL- dude you are making stuff up.

JVG is certainly a good coach, what he is NOT is a good judge of talent or a coach that can win the big one, he is too myopic and unbending to take a team to the upper levels.

You just are a hater, you feel he quit. Fair enough.....he certainly went home, I am sure there are people like you in Vancouver who feel that way about Francis, or fans of the Colts who feel that way about Elway, or any other player that whined their way out of a situation that was harmful for their career.

No biggie, it is clear where you are coming from, you are hurt by a players decision to leave for his own betterment...you should be thanking V-Span, he got us Scola......

Bottomline - V-Span can play this game very well, in the NBA or FIBA....and all he needed was time to adjust to the NBA game, and the right system to take advantage of his strengths and minimize his weaknesses.

DD

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Josh Childress already proved himself in this league before he took the rediculous contract...(we'll be back in the nba as soon as he's done cashing in euros)........THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE, that's the reason why your little comparison makes absolutely no damn sense.

Beno Udrih paid his dues and has also PROVEN HIMSELF IN THE NBA. He didn't get down by having to be a bench player and didn't start crying like a baby back bitch................THAT'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

I'm not talking about Vsuck the euro player......Vsuck the euro player is a good player. Vsuck the NBA player is nothing more than a emo little bitch, who acted like he was snatched off his mamas tit. He didn't have the mental (testicular) fortitude to make it in this damn league (unlike the players above). He wasn't willing to pay his dues or compete for a job....he just wanted it handed to him.

For people to come in here and get their panties in a twist, because people said Vsuck was a major bust in the NBA (which he was) and then want to point to what he's done/doing overseas or compare him to successful/established players in this league is so completely assbackwards and retarted......it makes no sense.

Hell even Luis Scola (a proven vet and former euro MVP) didn't get handed a starting job........did he cry like a emotional little bitch.....no he didn't. Instead he paid his dues, shut his damn mouth, and put in his work.......like every damn player has to do, what the hell makes Vsuck so special?

Vsuck has nobody to blame (not even JVG) for his NBA failures, but himself....he's the one to blame, because he wasn't willing to work or fight for a spot on a NBA roster.

Scola was never MVP of Europe. But he is very good player.

[RonMexico]

I was actually MVP of Europe.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Give me a freaking break.....if that was true, Luther Head and Chuck Hayes would never of been able to get their asses of the bench. JVG is hard on his players, because he wants/tries to build a mentaly tough team (it had absolutely nothing to do with him being in a "contract year" like your trying to say......that's absolute B.S.).

JVG pushes his players and makes them earn minutes.....if they don't want to play hard and fight for minutes in pracrice (Bonzi and Vsuck) then they won't get minutes..........and I have no problem with that. Give the minutes to the guys that earn them in practice, if Vsuck would've put in his time, he would've got time.......instead he spent most of that time crying to the local media.

Obradovic who is the coach of Panathinaikos make Van Gundy look like Mother Theresa. What you say is crap. Spanoulis play for MUCH harder and more demand coach than Van Gundy and he never complain.

He was have LIES make up about him in media and tell to him by the coach. And when he complain about it he was bench "forever". Van Gundy is Napoleon complex.

[RonMexico]

Obradovic who is the coach of Panathinaikos make Van Gundy look like Mother Theresa. What you say is crap. Spanoulis play for MUCh harder and more demand coach than Van Gundy and he never complain.

He was have LIES make up about him in media and tell to him by the coach. And when he complain about it he was bench "forever". Van Gundy is Napoleon complex.

I just figured it out: KBP is Dikembe Mutombo.

[Tmac&Luther]

He was have LIES make up about him in media and tell to him by the coach. And when he complain about it he was bench "forever". Van Gundy is Napoleon complex.

can we please get a translation.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Let's look at the players that the horrible JVG didn't pamper/baby, that got buired on his bench shall we..........

Stomile Swift............he's now a former high draft pick bust and is nothing more than a scrub basketball player who's only good for a couple of highlight reel dunks........he also quite possibly has the lowest Bball IQ in the entire league. He's Radio with a basketball and that's a insult to Radio

Bonzi Wells..........a absolute lazy basketball player who's as consistent as the weather down here in Texas.......he's also currently not even on a damn NBA roster.

Vsuck.......a emotional cry baby who like Bonzi Wells is not on a NBA roster even after his contract was traded to the Spurs (new coach that has had success with foriegn players) he still did not want to play in the NBA.

By my count, JVG was 3 for 3.

I'm sure a successful guy like JVG (a coach that's more successful than you are and anyone else on here) knows when and when not to push buttons, but he also isn't going to put up with laziness or a lack of effort.....which is something all 3 of the players above had in common. To lash out at JVG, because Vsuck was a quitter, missed his mommy, and wanted to go play back home is completely stupid and unfair to JVG.

JVG have very infamous problems with Oberto and Marcus Camby before. He try to bench Camby because he "cannot play" and Knicks threaten to fire him if he do it. Every year just about he pick 1 or 2 players and just throw them off team to prove he "man of team". He obvious have Napoleon complex.

[Tmac&Luther]

Obradovic who is the coach of Panathinaikos make Van Gundy look like Mother Theresa. What you say is crap. Spanoulis play for MUCh harder and more demand coach than Van Gundy and he never complain.

All Vquit did was complain

[Tmac&Luther]

JVG have very infamous problems with Oberto and Marcus Camby before. He try to bench Camby because he "cannot play" and Knicks threaten to fire him if he do it. Every year just about he pick 1 or 2 players and just throw them off team to prove he "man of team". He obvious have Napoleon complex.

#1, I'm sure JVG's teachings helped make Camby the defensive player he is today

#2 What the fuck have the Knicks done since JVG left. :rollin ...........exactly,

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

can we please get a translation.

"I am T-Mac of Greece"

"Billy have his mommy cry and whine all time to Daryl Morey"

"Billy have his mommy with him call and come to Rockets office all time and beg please let my Billy go"


"Spanoulis shoots 1-24 in practice"

"Spanoulis is not trying and is give no effort in practice and refuse to work on game"

"Billy is pouting and complaining and blaming others for his problems"


And many others. LIES from this stupid coach to the fans and media. Spanoulis make it very clear in Hellas that it take much for him to not kick Van Gundy ass.

Worst of all was when he make fun of his sick mother. He have father and stepfather die and his mother try commit suicide. Van Gundy react to this by make fun of him and his mother on radio and then all Rockets fans does same on clutchfans and media reports this craps about him and his "mommy".

If was me I would have beat crap out of Van Gundy. But Spanoulis is nice guy.

[Tmac&Luther]

Bottomline - V-Span can play this game very well, in the NBA or FIBA....and all he needed was time to adjust to the NBA game, and the right system to take advantage of his strengths and minimize his weaknesses.

DD

Good players find ways to fit in any system...........and as far as me thanking Vsuck for helping us get Scola, trust me I do everytime I watch Scola play. I don't hate Vsuck, but unlike you I'm not going to sugar coat the crap either. The guy quit plain and simple.........and it wasn't because of JVG, he would've quit on alot of coaches in this league, he's a quitter, it's what they do. (and yes, I can call Vsuck a lazy player, bucause quitting is laziness) It was pretty damn obvious he didn't want to have anything to do with the NBA.

[Tmac&Luther]

"I am T-Mac of Greece"

"Billy have his mommy cry and whine all time to Daryl Morey"

"Billy have his mommy with him call and come to Rockets office all time and beg please let my Billy go"


"Spanoulis shoots 1-24 in practice"

"Spanoulis is not trying and is give no effort in practice and refuse to work on game"

"Billy is pouting and complaining and blaming others for his problems"


And many others. LIES from this stupid coach to the fans and media. Spanoulis make it very clear in Hellas that it take much for him to not kick Van Gundy ass.

Worst of all was when he make fun of his sick mother. He have father and stepfather die and his mother try commit suicide. Van Gundy react to this by make fun of him and his mother on radio and then all Rockets fans does same on clutchfans and media reports this craps about him and his "mommy".

If was me I would have beat crap out of Van Gundy. But Spanoulis is nice guy.

I guess Vsuck was also in on the act as well, becuase he was the one talking to the media.

So now not only is Vsuck a quitter........he's also a liar too huh?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I guess Vsuck was also in on the act as well, becuase he was the one talking to the media.

So now not only is Vsuck a quitter........he's also a liar too huh?

He never said those things dumbass. It was radio people and Van Gundy.

Have fun with your criminal alcoholic Alston as point guard of team trying to win champions.

[DaDakota]

He never said those things dumbass. It was radio people and Van Gundy.

Have fun with your criminal alcoholic Alston as point guard of team trying to win champions.

Funny how you lost your broken English.

:D

I do agree with you about V-Span though. Especially the part about Van Gundy, he was horrible for Houston, simply a HORRIBLE coach...the most overated coach in the NBA.

DD

[The Third Man]

Its true, people who do not know basketball do not understand that it takes time to grow. Not to say that given minutes everyone can play, but it is just lame to watch a guy like Spanoulis play and then judge him after one year in one of the hardest transitions to make in all of sports. I have already given you plenty of examples that disprove your logic and all you reply with is obscure opinions (Vsuck and Euroleague sucks and he goes to cry in his moms chest). I reply with facts, such as Beno being in the same situation and Childress leaving to play in that "suck" league and Rafer's shooting percentage and scoring in his first year. It is very obvious. It does not make you a bad person, it just means you are a fan of your team and do not understand certain things about the game. There are basketball fans and fans of basketball teams, you are the latter.


Condescend much, Coach Wooden? Ok, I grant you that Spanoulis *could* have emerged and that players have struggled in the transition to the NBA, but Spanoulis has some things working against him the NBA. First, his lateral quickness is below average for a point guard. That is a fact based on watching his performance in the NBA. It's not just me hating on him randomly. He got beat continually and had difficulty getting to the basket like he does in international basketball. Second, the lanes in the NBA don't allow for as much penetration compared to the the FIBA set up. Third, he is a poor outside shooter. Look it up. The fact that he can't get as much separation in the NBA only hurts his shooting percentages in that league. Maybe he gets better, but I don't see any evidence that he would be able to get to the basket enough to be an efficient point guard. These issues are compounded by the fact that Spanoulis turned the ball over a lot and needs to dominate the ball in order to be successful. On a Greek team this may fly, but why would the Rockets take the ball out of McGrady's hands to let Spanoulis operate? Maybe he could have found an NBA team that had a better situation for him, but that team wouldn't have been very good. Van Gundy did not single him out any more than any other players. If you perform poorly, don't work in practice and have a crappy attitude, you will sit on the bench. I don't see how he would have fit in Adelman's system, either.

The anger that Rockets fans (except for DaDakota) have towards Spanoulis is justified, but there are real flaws to his games outside of quitting and whining. Maybe Spanoulis could do better in the NBA if he worked hard, tried to fit in and developed his game, but you can't seperate his character from his game. There are a whole lot of maybes in this conversation. Like the playground legends all over the States, Spanoulis just didn't have the mental makeup to make it in the NBA.

[Tmac&Luther]

Funny how you lost your broken English.

:D

I do agree with you about V-Span though. Especially the part about Van Gundy, he was horrible for Houston, simply a HORRIBLE coach...the most overated coach in the NBA.

DD

How many losing seasons has Jeff Van Gundy had as a head coach in the NBA?

To say he's a horrible coach is just flat out stupid and misinformed

[DaDakota]

How many losing seasons has Jeff Van Gundy had as a head coach in the NBA?

To say he's a horrible coach is just flat out stupid and misinformed

JVG is the most overated coach in the NBA, he has had talent and failed at every stop.

He knows one system and has trouble adjusting in the playoffs.

The best thing that happened to the Houston Rockets since Yao Ming was drafted was that JVG was thrown out on his arse.

DD

[DPG21920]

How many losing seasons did Avery have, and where is he now?

[DPG21920]

Condescend much, Coach Wooden? Ok, I grant you that Spanoulis *could* have emerged and that players have struggled in the transition to the NBA, but Spanoulis has some things working against him the NBA. First, his lateral quickness is below average for a point guard. That is a fact based on watching his performance in the NBA. It's not just me hating on him randomly. He got beat continually and had difficulty getting to the basket like he does in international basketball. Second, the lanes in the NBA don't allow for as much penetration compared to the the FIBA set up. Third, he is a poor outside shooter. Look it up. The fact that he can't get as much separation in the NBA only hurts his shooting percentages in that league. Maybe he gets better, but I don't see any evidence that he would be able to get to the basket enough to be an efficient point guard. These issues are compounded by the fact that Spanoulis turned the ball over a lot and needs to dominate the ball in order to be successful. On a Greek team this may fly, but why would the Rockets take the ball out of McGrady's hands to let Spanoulis operate? Maybe he could have found an NBA team that had a better situation for him, but that team wouldn't have been very good. Van Gundy did not single him out any more than any other players. If you perform poorly, don't work in practice and have a crappy attitude, you will sit on the bench. I don't see how he would have fit in Adelman's system, either.

The anger that Rockets fans (except for DaDakota) have towards Spanoulis is justified, but there are real flaws to his games outside of quitting and whining. Maybe Spanoulis could do better in the NBA if he worked hard, tried to fit in and developed his game, but you can't seperate his character from his game. There are a whole lot of maybes in this conversation. Like the playground legends all over the States, Spanoulis just didn't have the mental makeup to make it in the NBA.

It is not condescending to say someone does not understand the subtleties of the game.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Condescend much, Coach Wooden? Ok, I grant you that Spanoulis *could* have emerged and that players have struggled in the transition to the NBA, but Spanoulis has some things working against him the NBA. First, his lateral quickness is below average for a point guard. That is a fact based on watching his performance in the NBA. It's not just me hating on him randomly. He got beat continually and had difficulty getting to the basket like he does in international basketball. Second, the lanes in the NBA don't allow for as much penetration compared to the the FIBA set up. Third, he is a poor outside shooter. Look it up. The fact that he can't get as much separation in the NBA only hurts his shooting percentages in that league. Maybe he gets better, but I don't see any evidence that he would be able to get to the basket enough to be an efficient point guard. These issues are compounded by the fact that Spanoulis turned the ball over a lot and needs to dominate the ball in order to be successful. On a Greek team this may fly, but why would the Rockets take the ball out of McGrady's hands to let Spanoulis operate? Maybe he could have found an NBA team that had a better situation for him, but that team wouldn't have been very good. Van Gundy did not single him out any more than any other players. If you perform poorly, don't work in practice and have a crappy attitude, you will sit on the bench. I don't see how he would have fit in Adelman's system, either.

The anger that Rockets fans (except for DaDakota) have towards Spanoulis is justified, but there are real flaws to his games outside of quitting and whining. Maybe Spanoulis could do better in the NBA if he worked hard, tried to fit in and developed his game, but you can't seperate his character from his game. There are a whole lot of maybes in this conversation. Like the playground legends all over the States, Spanoulis just didn't have the mental makeup to make it in the NBA.

This is stupid. He is one of quickest guards ever from Europe and he is a very good shooter. Only reason he have problem with 3 point shots in Rockets is because he force to sit for 3 games then get to come to game off bench at end of game then if miss one shot get benched again.

[The Franchise]

This is stupid. He is one of quickest guards ever from Europe and he is a very good shooter. Only reason he have problem with 3 point shots in Rockets is because he force to sit for 3 games then get to come to game off bench at end of game then if miss one shot get benched again.

You are posting from Texas. Please give this up.

[hater]

Vspan is a legit talent.

I would definitely want him for spurs ASAP (as a backup)

[Tmac&Luther]

How many losing seasons did Avery have, and where is he now?

How many seasons did Avery coach........that's a dumbass comparision. Avery was given a stacked team and did well his first season, but after that....not so much.

[Tmac&Luther]

JVG is the most overated coach in the NBA, he has had talent and failed at every stop.

He knows one system and has trouble adjusting in the playoffs.

The best thing that happened to the Houston Rockets since Yao Ming was drafted was that JVG was thrown out on his arse.

DD

Well I guess by your account, about 90% of the coaches in the NBA are overrated then huh.

face it.....where ever Jeff Van Gundy goes, 50 win teams follow. He doesn't have the ring to his name and his ceiling for top success is limited, but the guy can come into a bad situation and whip players into shape and get players to play their asses off........he's a good coach in this league regardless of how crappy your trying to make him seem.

I'm glad he came here and inserted his defensive principles into this team and while I knew we'd need another coach to reach the next level (and was for the Adelman hiring so they'll be a new voice in the lockeroom, but I'm not going to say JVG was a bad coach), what JVG did while he was here should not go unoticed. Without JVG's defensive attitude (that's still here), this team would've been dead ducks without Yao last season. If Houston is somehow able to win a ring in the next couple of season a big reason why will be because of that defense.

JVG is the perfect coach to bring into a young or bad situation.......he's the perfect coach to whip undisciplined teams into shape, because the player will either ship up, or be shipped out. Ala Steve Francis (oh BTW that's another player that got into that downright horrible head coach JVG's doghouse. ........so with Stro Swift, Bonzi Wells, Vsuck, and Steve Francis.......JVG was fucking 4 for 4, yet he's so damn horrible. :rolleyes)

[Tmac&Luther]

He never said those things dumbass. It was radio people and Van Gundy.

Have fun with your criminal alcoholic Alston as point guard of team trying to win champions.

I live in Houston dumbass......I heard and read the interviews, please hop off of Vsuck's cock the crap is getting old.

So for those keeping count at home....

Now it's JVG's fault that he was a failure

and also the lying backstabbing Houston media (this isn't New York dumbass, the Houston media is the most homeristic and nicest media around.......they suck up to the athletes around here to a fault)

[DPG21920]

How many seasons did Avery coach........that's a dumbass comparision. Avery was given a stacked team and did well his first season, but after that....not so much.

3 straight 50+ (2 with over 60) wins every season and a finals appearance. What did Van Gundy do with a stacked team? Having T-Mac and Yao is a stacked team. Ever get to the finals?

JVG coached the Rockets for 4 years and Avery coached the Mavs for 3 and in his 3 seasons dominated the Rockets. JVG had 2 50+ win seasons and got bounced in the first round each time.

[DaDakota]

Tmac and Luther,

You are pissed at Vspan because he quit, so are you saying that anyone that quits on a team deserves to be hammered?

Is that your main issue that VSpan was a quitter?

DD

[DPG21920]

Well I guess by your account, about 90% of the coaches in the NBA are overrated then huh.

face it.....where ever Jeff Van Gundy goes, 50 win teams follow. He doesn't have the ring to his name and his ceiling for top success is limited, but the guy can come into a bad situation and whip players into shape and get players to play their asses off........he's a good coach in this league regardless of how crappy your trying to make him seem.

I'm glad he came here and inserted his defensive principles into this team and while I knew we'd need another coach to reach the next level (and was for the Adelman hiring so they'll be a new voice in the lockeroom, but I'm not going to say JVG was a bad coach), what JVG did while he was here should not go unoticed. Without JVG's defensive attitude (that's still here), this team would've been dead ducks without Yao last season. If Houston is somehow able to win a ring in the next couple of season a big reason why will be because of that defense.

JVG is the perfect coach to bring into a young or bad situation.......he's the perfect coach to whip undisciplined teams into shape, because the player will either ship up, or be shipped out. Ala Steve Francis (oh BTW that's another player that got into that downright horrible head coach JVG's doghouse. ........so with Stro Swift, Bonzi Wells, Vsuck, and Steve Francis.......JVG was fucking 4 for 4, yet he's so damn horrible. :rolleyes)

JVG coached for 4 years with the Rockets and only had 2 50 win seasons and never got them out of the first round. Avery on the other hand coached 3 years with the Mavs and had 2 60+ win seasons and one 50+ win season. He also lead them to a finals. So what is your point that makes JVG so great?

[DPG21920]

They are just so grossly misinformed. They do not use logic, like I said they are Rocket fans, not basketball fans. There is a difference. It is ok to be like that, but it makes you sound foolish when you bash 1st year players and pimp Rafer Alston and JVG.

[Tmac&Luther]

:lol
3 straight 50+ (2 with over 60) wins every season and a finals appearance. What did Van Gundy do with a stacked team? Having T-Mac and Yao is a stacked team. Ever get to the finals?

JVG coached the Rockets for 4 years and Avery coached the Mavs for 3 and in his 3 seasons dominated the Rockets. JVG had 2 50+ win seasons and got bounced in the first round each time.

Having Yao and Tmac + garbage is not a stacked team, your a idiot for thinking that. I mean we can even put the injuries aside.........they went into the playoffs with a bench that scored zero points in a crucial playoff game.....hell it wasn't even just the bench, their 5th starter didn't even score.

JVG's team were underdogs (Houston vs. Dallas) and he still stretched the other team to the bring with vital role players like Ryan fucking Bowen. :lol You don't know what the hell your talking about.

[RonMexico]

Vspan is a legit talent.

I would definitely want him for spurs ASAP (as a backup)

Well, you did have the rights to him and then he left for Greece... lets remember this.

[Tmac&Luther]

Tmac and Luther,

You are pissed at Vspan because he quit, so are you saying that anyone that quits on a team deserves to be hammered?

Is that your main issue that VSpan was a quitter?

DD

I'm not pissed at Vsuck because he quit........hell I'm not even mad at him, I'm just not going to let a dumbass thread that blames JVG for Vsucks failures. Vsuck is a man, he needs to be held accountable. I'm here to speak the damn truth and the truth is, that Vsuck just didn't want to be a NBA baller......he was a player that wasn't willing to put in work, and wasn't willing to pay his dues. So it's completely stupid to blame JVG, because Vsuck was a home sick mental weakling.

Again, I'm not mad at Vsuck, and although I do think that he quit (which he did and you can't even make a legit argument against that) I'm glad he played for the team, because like you said, we turned Vsuck into Luis Scola.....a true professional and NBA baller.

[Tmac&Luther]

They are just so grossly misinformed. They do not use logic, like I said they are Rocket fans, not basketball fans. There is a difference. It is ok to be like that, but it makes you sound foolish when you bash 1st year players and pimp Rafer Alston and JVG.

Yep, I'm foolish to back a professional that was willing to pay his dues at this level and scratch out a nice living and spot in the NBA. I'm so foolish I also back a coach that helped in rebuilding Houston back to being a legit smart basketball team and not just the streetball sideshow circus that they were before he got here.

Your right I'm a NBA fan, that's why when I talk about Vsuck, I could give a rats ass what he does overseas, all I know is he had his shot in the NBA and he pissed it away.......he quit, and whether you or DD is man enough to admit it......that's the damn facts. You can continue to ignore those facts if you want to, but if you do......I'm not the one that's "grossly misinformed" here.

[DPG21920]

:lol

Having Yao and Tmac + garbage is not a stacked team, your a idiot for thinking that. I mean we can even put the injuries aside.........they went into the playoffs with a bench that scored zero points in a crucial playoff game.....hell it wasn't even just the bench, their 5th starter didn't even score.

JVG's team were underdogs (Houston vs. Dallas) and he still stretched the other team to the bring with vital role players like Ryan fucking Bowen. :lol You don't know what the hell your talking about.

The facts hurt don't they. You can not argue numbers. JVG clearly was out coached by Avery in the same window of time. Not even close.

Dallas Roster year they went to the finals:

1 Dirk Nowitzki F 6-11 237 27 81 81 38.1 9.3
2 Jason Terry G 6-2 176 28 80 80 35.0 6.5 13.7
3 Josh Howard F-G 6-7 210 25 59 58 32.5 5.9 12.6
4 Jerry Stackhouse G-F 6-6 218 31 55 11 27.7 4.4 11.0
5 Marquis Daniels G-F 6-6 200 25 62 29 28.5 4.0 8.3
6 Devin Harris G 6-3 185 22 56 4 22.8 3.4 7.2
7 Keith Van Horn F 6-10 220 30 53 0 20.6 3.1 7.3
8 Erick Dampier C-F 6-11 265 30 82 36 23.6 2.1 4.2
9 Adrian Griffin G-F 6-5 217 31 52 45 23.9 1.9 3.9
10 Doug Christie G-F 6-6 200 35 7 7 26.4 1.3 3.7
11 Rawle Marshall G-F 6-9 190 23 23 9 10.5 1.0 2.6
12 Pavel Podkolzin C 7-5 260 21 1 0 18.0 0.0 2.0
13 Josh Powell F 6-9 225 23 37 2 11.6 1.0 2.2
14 DeSagana Diop C 7-0 300 24 81 45 18.6 0.9 1.9
15 Darrell Armstrong G 6-0 170 37 62 2 10.0 0.7 2.1
16 Didier Ilunga-Mbenga

That is super stacked...Having a young Devin Harris, Dampier as the center along with Diop and Mbenga, then having Keith Van Horn. You realize that your lame excuses about Avery having a "stacked team" just flew out the window.

Houston's Roster that same year:

1 Yao Ming C 7-6 310 25 57 57 1949 467 900
2 Tracy McGrady F 6-8 210 26 47 47 1745 410 1011
3 Juwan Howard F-C 6-9 240 32 80 80 2537 394 859
4 Rafer Alston G 6-2 171 29 63 63 2431 280 738
5 Luther Head G 6-3 185 23 80 27 2310 254 630
6 David Wesley G 6-0 190 35 71 59 2372 226 561
7 Stromile Swift F 6-9 225 26 66 5 1344 225 458
8 Keith Bogans G-F 6-5 215 25 33 22 1064 101 256
9 Derek Anderson G 6-5 194 31 20 8 582 68 173
10 Dikembe Mutombo C 7-2 245 39 64 23 955 50
11 Chuck Hayes F 6-6 240 22 40 0 535 59 105
12 Ryan Bowen F 6-7 215 30 68 19 652 37 124
13 Jon Barry G 6-4 195 36 20 0 342 25 65 .385
14 Lonny Baxter F 6-8 260 27 23 0 281 33 72
15 Moochie Norris G 6-1 175 32 29 0 241 26 65
16 Rick Brunson G 6-4 190 33 23 0 215 16 46
17 Richie Frahm G 6-5 210 28 8 0 117 15 35
18 John Lucas G 5-11 165 23 13 0 107 14 36 .389
19 Stephen Graham G 6-6 215 23 6 0 38 6 16
20 Maciej Lampe F 6-11 275 20 4 0 12 2 7
21 Josh Davis

This roster is just as manageable as the Mavs. In fact I would say that Yao/McGrady > Dirk/Howard. You can take into consideration the injuries that year, but what about next year? You add Bonzi and Battier and still lose in the first round.

The Mavs won 67 games the next year and only added Devean George. So don't give me your opinion, I know the facts.

[DaDakota]

Your right I'm a NBA fan, that's why when I talk about Vsuck, I could give a rats ass what he does overseas, all I know is he had his shot in the NBA and he pissed it away.......he quit, and whether you or DD is man enough to admit it......that's the damn facts. You can continue to ignore those facts if you want to, but if you do......I'm not the one that's "grossly misinformed" here.

Yep VSpan quit, just like JVG when he quit on the Knicks.

JVG was a crap coach for Houston, once we got Tmac, he was good for Francis and Mobley, but horrible for a Tmac led team.

Up 2-0 in the first round twice and can't bring the team home....give me a break.

If all VSpan did was get JVG fired then he did an excellent job in Houston, but he did more than that, he got us Scola too.

So Vspan is +2 in my book.

DD

[DPG21920]

Yep, I'm foolish to back a professional that was willing to pay his dues at this level and scratch out a nice living and spot in the NBA. I'm so foolish I also back a coach that helped in rebuilding Houston back to being a legit smart basketball team and not just the streetball sideshow circus that they were before he got here.

Your right I'm a NBA fan, that's why when I talk about Vsuck, I could give a rats ass what he does overseas, all I know is he had his shot in the NBA and he pissed it away.......he quit, and whether you or DD is man enough to admit it......that's the damn facts. You can continue to ignore those facts if you want to, but if you do......I'm not the one that's "grossly misinformed" here.

Your not an NBA fan, your a Rocket fan and that is it. What the hell are you yapping about JVG restoring the glory days, lmao. Did not Rudy T deliver back to back championships to Houston in 94 and 95? Aren't those the glory days? You are just spouting off non-sense in all of your post.

[DaDakota]

Your not an NBA fan, your a Rocket fan and that is it. What the hell are you yapping about JVG restoring the glory days, lmao. Did not Rudy T deliver back to back championships to Houston in 94 and 95? Aren't those the glory days? You are just spouting off non-sense in all of your post.


JVG could not get a sniff of Rudy T's jock, Rudy forced the NBA to change their rules by his implementation of the ISO offense....

JVG...well, he quit when his team started struggling.

DD

[ThunderStix®]

This is stupid. He is one of quickest guards ever from Europe and he is a very good shooter. Only reason he have problem with 3 point shots in Rockets is because he force to sit for 3 games then get to come to game off bench at end of game then if miss one shot get benched again.

Hey KBP, After watching some clips of V-Span, I have take back a lot the stuff I said about him. He's pretty impressive. :toast

Is this that clip you were talking about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

[DaDakota]

Hey KBP, After watching some clips of V-Span, I have take back a lot the stuff I said about him. He's pretty impressive. :toast

Is this that clip you were talking about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

LMAO....that was well played my man.

DD

[nil.ball]

:bang
damn just got rick rolled! WARNING!

[DPG21920]

I'm not pissed at Vsuck because he quit........hell I'm not even mad at him, I'm just not going to let a dumbass thread that blames JVG for Vsucks failures. Vsuck is a man, he needs to be held accountable. I'm here to speak the damn truth and the truth is, that Vsuck just didn't want to be a NBA baller......he was a player that wasn't willing to put in work, and wasn't willing to pay his dues. So it's completely stupid to blame JVG, because Vsuck was a home sick mental weakling.

Again, I'm not mad at Vsuck, and although I do think that he quit (which he did and you can't even make a legit argument against that) I'm glad he played for the team, because like you said, we turned Vsuck into Luis Scola.....a true professional and NBA baller.

Obviously nothing is 100%, but JVG played a huge role in the Spanoulis events. Just like Pop did with Beno. Do you not think Beno playing as he does on the Kings would help the Spurs? Of course it would, it would give the Spurs the best pair of point guards in the league. But Pop messed up and so did Beno, it just did not work out. Same with Spanoulis and JVG.

[ThunderStix®]

LMAO....that was well played my man.

DD
:lol Thanks.

[leemajors]

JVG coached for 4 years with the Rockets and only had 2 50 win seasons and never got them out of the first round. Avery on the other hand coached 3 years with the Mavs and had 2 60+ win seasons and one 50+ win season. He also lead them to a finals. So what is your point that makes JVG so great?

so, basically what you're saying is that JVG and Avery both have one finals appearance. nice point.

[DPG21920]

so, basically what you're saying is that JVG and Avery both have one finals appearance. nice point.

No, I am saying that in the same time frame that JVG coached Houston he had no finals appearances and Avery had one. Avery also had no season in which he did not win 50+ games and he also had two 60+ win seasons. JVG never got Houston out of the first round, did not make the playoffs one year and only won 50+ games twice.

It is even worse if you take someone like Avery who only coached 3 years and he has a the same amount of finals experience as a coach that has coached since 1995-1996. JVG since going to that finals with the Knicks, has only gotten out of the first round once.

[Tmac&Luther]

The facts hurt don't they. You can not argue numbers. JVG clearly was out coached by Avery in the same window of time. Not even close.

Dallas Roster year they went to the finals:

1 Dirk Nowitzki F 6-11 237 27 81 81 38.1 9.3
2 Jason Terry G 6-2 176 28 80 80 35.0 6.5 13.7
3 Josh Howard F-G 6-7 210 25 59 58 32.5 5.9 12.6
4 Jerry Stackhouse G-F 6-6 218 31 55 11 27.7 4.4 11.0
5 Marquis Daniels G-F 6-6 200 25 62 29 28.5 4.0 8.3
6 Devin Harris G 6-3 185 22 56 4 22.8 3.4 7.2
7 Keith Van Horn F 6-10 220 30 53 0 20.6 3.1 7.3
8 Erick Dampier C-F 6-11 265 30 82 36 23.6 2.1 4.2
9 Adrian Griffin G-F 6-5 217 31 52 45 23.9 1.9 3.9
10 Doug Christie G-F 6-6 200 35 7 7 26.4 1.3 3.7
11 Rawle Marshall G-F 6-9 190 23 23 9 10.5 1.0 2.6
12 Pavel Podkolzin C 7-5 260 21 1 0 18.0 0.0 2.0
13 Josh Powell F 6-9 225 23 37 2 11.6 1.0 2.2
14 DeSagana Diop C 7-0 300 24 81 45 18.6 0.9 1.9
15 Darrell Armstrong G 6-0 170 37 62 2 10.0 0.7 2.1
16 Didier Ilunga-Mbenga

That is super stacked...Having a young Devin Harris, Dampier as the center along with Diop and Mbenga, then having Keith Van Horn. You realize that your lame excuses about Avery having a "stacked team" just flew out the window.

Houston's Roster that same year:

1 Yao Ming C 7-6 310 25 57 57 1949 467 900
2 Tracy McGrady F 6-8 210 26 47 47 1745 410 1011
3 Juwan Howard F-C 6-9 240 32 80 80 2537 394 859
4 Rafer Alston G 6-2 171 29 63 63 2431 280 738
5 Luther Head G 6-3 185 23 80 27 2310 254 630
6 David Wesley G 6-0 190 35 71 59 2372 226 561
7 Stromile Swift F 6-9 225 26 66 5 1344 225 458
8 Keith Bogans G-F 6-5 215 25 33 22 1064 101 256
9 Derek Anderson G 6-5 194 31 20 8 582 68 173
10 Dikembe Mutombo C 7-2 245 39 64 23 955 50
11 Chuck Hayes F 6-6 240 22 40 0 535 59 105
12 Ryan Bowen F 6-7 215 30 68 19 652 37 124
13 Jon Barry G 6-4 195 36 20 0 342 25 65 .385
14 Lonny Baxter F 6-8 260 27 23 0 281 33 72
15 Moochie Norris G 6-1 175 32 29 0 241 26 65
16 Rick Brunson G 6-4 190 33 23 0 215 16 46
17 Richie Frahm G 6-5 210 28 8 0 117 15 35
18 John Lucas G 5-11 165 23 13 0 107 14 36 .389
19 Stephen Graham G 6-6 215 23 6 0 38 6 16
20 Maciej Lampe F 6-11 275 20 4 0 12 2 7
21 Josh Davis

This roster is just as manageable as the Mavs. In fact I would say that Yao/McGrady > Dirk/Howard. You can take into consideration the injuries that year, but what about next year? You add Bonzi and Battier and still lose in the first round.

The Mavs won 67 games the next year and only added Devean George. So don't give me your opinion, I know the facts.

:lmao Your on crack if you think that roster was as good as the Mavs.....a young Yao and a Tmac playing his first year as a Houston Rocket vs. a stacked Mavs team. Please stop the bullcrap....who were heavy favorites (and for good reason) in that series. You are honestly going to call out my bball knowledge and then post crap like that. :lol

[Tmac&Luther]

Yep VSpan quit, just like JVG when he quit on the Knicks.

JVG was a crap coach for Houston, once we got Tmac, he was good for Francis and Mobley, but horrible for a Tmac led team.

Up 2-0 in the first round twice and can't bring the team home....give me a break.

If all VSpan did was get JVG fired then he did an excellent job in Houston, but he did more than that, he got us Scola too.

So Vspan is +2 in my book.

DD

First of all your on crack if you think Vsuck got JVG fired........JVG wasn't even fired, it was just a mutual agreement to move on and the Rockets management did not hold JVG responsible for the fact that Vsuck had sand stuck in his panties.

Second, if you honestly think that a Francis lead Rockets team + Mobley was good for this city you are a idiot. (honestly I had more respect for you before this thread, but now I can easily see why you are laughed at on clutchfans with posts like this) So you honestly think JVG was better suited and a better coach with Francis and his gay friend Mobley. :lol They were the street ball circus/undisciplined players I was talking about. JVG dumping their ass for Tmac is one of the big reasons why Houston is where they're at today....legit contenders

You can dog JVG for being up 2-0, but currently that's more than you can say about any other recent coach in recent years.... Not to mention the fact that he should've won the Dallas series and even Tim Donaghy admitted he was told to call a foul on Yao every time Yao set a screen...which turned the series around after Houston almost upset a heavily favored Dallas.

But nevermind all this bullcrap....

Do you know what I love about all your posts and all the times you quote my posts?

It's the fact that everytime I point out how your a giant idiot, while pointing out all the times JVG was right about the players he threw into the dog house (Francis, Wells, Swift, and Vsuck) you don't even comment on it......you aviod the entire damn thing. (because you know I'm dead on and right) :lmao it honestly makes me laugh my ass off, because you have no answer for it.........you are met straight up on these examples and can't possibly give a rebuttal, because even after JVG cut or got on to these fools, no other NBA coach had success with them.

Again...

Francis
Swift
Wells
and
Vsuck

the players that landed in JVG's dog house......what the fuck are they doing now? yet, you continue to hide behind your B.S. crap "JVG sucks" and refuse to answer the damn question......let me guess, JVG is the sole reason for all of these player's failures :lol stop being a dumbass tool and hold these guy's responsible for their own damn career. You must be one of those....."mommy yelled at me, it's the reason why I wet my pants" kinda people huh?

[The Third Man]

No, I am saying that in the same time frame that JVG coached Houston he had no finals appearances and Avery had one. Avery also had no season in which he did not win 50+ games and he also had two 60+ win seasons. JVG never got Houston out of the first round, did not make the playoffs one year and only won 50+ games twice.

It is even worse if you take someone like Avery who only coached 3 years and he has a the same amount of finals experience as a coach that has coached since 1995-1996. JVG since going to that finals with the Knicks, has only gotten out of the first round once.

Wait, aren't you the sophisticated basketball fan who "watches every game of every team?" Maybe I am confusing you with someone else. Your argument is silly. You are comparing Avery and Van Gundy's coaching ability and not, you know, looking at their respective rosters when they were coaching. It's like saying Barry Switzer was a better NFL coach than Don Shula because one guy won the Super Bowl and the other missed the playoffs a lot at the end. Come on, dude. Ryan Bowen, David Wesley, Luther Head and Jon Barry got huge minutes in their 2006 playoff series with the Mavs. It wasn't some kind of incredible coaching inspiration of Avery's that got the *favored* Mavericks past the Rockets in seven games. Until last year, the Mavericks had a deeper, more talented roster than almost every team in the league every year Johnson was the coach. They have also been pretty damn healthy, too. The only series that the Rockets lost in which they were the favorites was in the '07 series against the Jazz and it's not like they were a 1 seed losing to an 8 seed. I think both coaches are solid, but flawed, but in this sample size one guy got the keys to the Porsche and the other got to drive a Honda Civic.

[Bruno]

Germany's guards are really bad. It's not a surprise to see Spanoulis, who is a good player, doing well against them.

[DPG21920]

:lmao Your on crack if you think that roster was as good as the Mavs.....a young Yao and a Tmac playing his first year as a Houston Rocket vs. a stacked Mavs team. Please stop the bullcrap....who were heavy favorites (and for good reason) in that series. You are honestly going to call out my bball knowledge and then post crap like that. :lol

You see how I actually post quantifiable evidence: (win/loss records, coaching records...) and you post nothing but opinions and call people idiots. That right there shows you do not know what you are talking about. How can you look at those two rosters and still call the Mavs stacked. They had one consistent All-Star (Dirk). The Rockets had 2(T-Mac and Yao).

The Mavs had Dampier and Diop for a center, the Rockets had an experienced Mutombo and Yao. Neither team had great point guards. The Mavs had Terry who sucked, which is why he lost his starting job to a younger Devin Harris, who was then traded because they could not win with him.

Last time I checked, Alston was still there. Do not discredit what Avery did by saying he had a stacked team. Houston was just as good on paper, but Avery had them playing inspired ball. Both teams had talented, but not stacked rosters.


Wait, aren't you the sophisticated basketball fan who "watches every game of every team?" Maybe I am confusing you with someone else. Your argument is silly. You are comparing Avery and Van Gundy's coaching ability and not, you know, looking at their respective rosters when they were coaching. It's like saying Barry Switzer was a better NFL coach than Don Shula because one guy won the Super Bowl and the other missed the playoffs a lot at the end. Come on, dude. Ryan Bowen, David Wesley, Luther Head and Jon Barry got huge minutes in their 2006 playoff series with the Mavs. It wasn't some kind of incredible coaching inspiration of Avery's that got the *favored* Mavericks past the Rockets in seven games. Until last year, the Mavericks had a deeper, more talented roster than almost every team in the league every year Johnson was the coach. They have also been pretty damn healthy, too. The only series that the Rockets lost in which they were the favorites was in the '07 series against the Jazz and it's not like they were a 1 seed losing to an 8 seed. I think both coaches are solid, but flawed, but in this sample size one guy got the keys to the Porsche and the other got to drive a Honda Civic.

I watch almost every game for every team, not all of them. The whole Avery argument was not to say that he was a better coach, if you read all of the posts, take them in the context they were written, you will see it was in response to "How many losing seasons has Jeff Van Gundy had as a head coach in the NBA? To say he's a horrible coach is just flat out stupid and misinformed".

My statement was sort of in agreement with what you said. You can not just look at the win/loss and finals experience as the judge on if someone is a good coach or not. Although, it is convenient to just flat out ignore all the FACTS AND QUANTIFIABLE numbers that point to Avery being a more winning coach, even though the sample size is smaller than JVG, but you have to start somewhere. It is not like he only coached one year. He coached 3 and only did not win 60+ one time.

To say JVG only started losing later on is just false, he got to the finals only once in his entire career. Once again here is where my factual knowledge of the game, combined with some savvy research shows that in fact JVG has not fared well for the MAJORITY of his career in the post season. He had done better than many but, to try and act like he is an elite coach is just false. He is good and that is it. To compare him to Shula is just wrong. Avery is not Switzer and JVG is definitely not Shula. Shula is a champion and Hall-of-Fame coach. JVG had only been to the finals ONCE IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER. Not only that, more than half of his career has been a loss in the first round of the playoffs. He started coaching in 1995-1996 and made it to the finals in 1998-1999. After that he coached 7 more years and only made it out of the first round one time (that was they year after he made the finals). So, in fact, it is not the minority part of his career he has not been able to get it done in the post season, it is the MAJORITY. Only for the first 4 years of his career was he successful in the playoffs (1995-1999) (which when you compare rosters and such to Avery in the same time frame, Avery still blows him out of the water statistically) and then from 2000-2007 it was a string of one and dones with manageable rosters.

Once again, I do not see how you can look at the Mavs roster with one all-star compared to Houston's two and look at the center position which is the most important position in the NBA (followed closely by point guard) in which Houston had a dominant player compared to the Mavs having nothing in comparison and then both teams having average point guards. "Stacked teams" usually have one player in the most dominating position(s) center/pg and the Mavs had neither.

[DPG21920]

Germany's guards are really bad. It's not a surprise to see Spanoulis, who is a good player, doing well against them.

Spain's guards were good and he did well against them. He ended up having some bad shots/turnovers because his team was playing bad and in a hole, but he was more than holding his own.

[RonMexico]

Who even cares what kind of coach JVG is? He's hilarious as an analyst and much better in the Draft coverage than Stephen A. Smith could ever have been.

No one will beat the Snapper, Walton, Costas team, however.

[DPG21920]

Who even cares what kind of coach JVG is? He's hilarious as an analyst and much better in the Draft coverage than Stephen A. Smith could ever have been.

No one will beat the Snapper, Walton, Costas team, however.

Agreed. JVG is announcing gold.

[DPG21920]

Have you ever coached or managed people? I am asking seriously. There is no "universal" method to coaching. All players are different. Some respond to hard ass coaches and some do not. Being a good coach is being consistent in your message of what you are looking for and then getting the most out of your players. You want to push players and challenge them, but you have to have "touch" or finesse as well. Certain players you can push harder than others.


If you can point out at all where I have said he WAS a good NBA player, please post it.

I have clearly stated that you can not judge him by his one year with the Rockets and that he has the basketball skill to be serviceable in the NBA. I have also said that he is better skill-wise than Rafer in every single category of the game. With the exception of ball-handling, maybe.


Well lets agree to disagree. I am not sure if Spanoulis will ever come back to the NBA, but if he does I am sure he will play well. There are plenty of teams that would welcome him.

Despite all the hilarity that has ensued, these are the main points I was trying to make.

The Rocket fans have said some terribly wrong things that I had to disprove along the way (especially the Switzer and Shula comment, that was hilarious considering they have both won superbowls and neither Avery or JVG have won titles), but it is just their opinion I guess. Nothing wrong with that.

[hater]

Germany's guards are really bad. It's not a surprise to see Spanoulis, who is a good player, doing well against them.

so you were surprised to see him do well vs. Spain's guards?

[DaDakota]

JVG was a horrible coach for Houston, he let players like Kelana Azubuike go to keep players like Flying Ryan Bowen.

And no matter what Tmac/Luther says above or how moronically he posts it.....JVG was FIRED....for failing.

And he is a QUITTER for quitting on the Knicks....you know JVG..when the going gets tough (errrr, the talent gets thin)....QUIT !

Oh and as to your point about Francis and Mobley, you need to learn how to read son.....I said JVG was a good coach for THOSE players to help get them under control, but when we got TMac....JVG was the WRONG coach...get it? Got it? Good !

JVG was a failure in Houston, winning 50 games is great, but if you get outcoached by a rookie coach in the playoffs and then blow game 7, both times after being up 2-0 and have a team with Tmac and Yao...you deserve to get tossed out on your arse.

Which Les and Morey did.

JVG rightly benched Swift, and Bonzi and I understand why he benched V-Span, I just disagree with it.

That team was going nowhere that year, and IMHO they should have been playing some of the younger guys to find out if they were going to be part of the team going forward.

Instead, we got to see Juwan Howard and Ryan Bowen and other older NBA players like Rod Strickland, Rick Brunson, Charles Oakley, Charlie Ward...and any other ex Knick that JVG could grab a spade and dig up......

JVG is not good as an announcer, he is GREAT....I enjoy listening to him and watching him on TV....all the more because he is not in Houston screwing up my favorite team anymore.

DD

[RonMexico]

Rick Adelman has as many Finals appearences as JVG and Avery.

[DaDakota]

Rick Adelman has as many Finals appearences as JVG and Avery.

No doubt but he at least gets deep into the playoffs, and can make adjustments, and has a better winning percentage, and understands how to play to his players strengths, and not to a particular system.

Adelman coaches what he has....JVG turns the roster over until he gets players that can play his system.

Give me Adelman 100 out of 100 times.

DD

[RonMexico]

I'll give you Mike D'Antoni 100 out of 100 times.

[DaDakota]

I'll give you Mike D'Antoni 100 out of 100 times.

I liked him as a coach, but that Shaq trade, wtf was he thinking?

;)

DD

[DPG21920]

It is not about who is the better coach, you could make arguments both ways, but these guys are acting like JVG has had some stellar career. I have already disproved that theory. Then they act like the Mavs had a stacked roster and Houston's sucked. I disproved that theory. They act like he can do not wrong and that it was all the players fault, I disproved that theory.

Lets look at all those scenarios summarized:

1) I already posted all of JVG's career achievements and they are middle of the road.

2) I already compared the rosters and neither were "stacked", but they were both comparable and balanced. I pointed out that Houston had 2 all-stars while Dallas had 1. I pointed out that Dallas lacked a superstar at the 2 most important positions center/point guard, while Houston at least had one of those covered. Also, you can just ask simple questions to compare the rosters: would you rather have Yao/T-Mac or Dirk/Howard? Which center situation is better: Yao/Mutombo or Dampier/Diop? Who is the best player out of these: Dirk/Yao/Howard/T-Mac? Who would you rather have on your bench: Daniels/Harris/Van Horn/Griffin/Powell/Diop or Head/Bogans/Wesely/Swift/Mutombo/Hayes/Barry?

3) See Beno Udrih for example


ps: I think the Shaq move was not Mike D's decision. I think that was Kerr telling him: your style is not going to work.

[DPG21920]

Let me edit something: I think middle of the road is a bit harsh for JVG. His time with the Rockets was middle of the road, but the scope of his career has been above average. He is not elite by any means, but has done a good job.

[RonMexico]

Whether Kerr told Mike D his style wouldn't work or Mike D supported it, he still was poor at making in-game adjustments and over-used his aging players (Nash, Hill). For such an "innovative" offensive mind, I can't believe that he tensed up so much against the Spurs (i.e. blowing leads in Game 1 & 2 and going to Diaw in the post in Game 5 when a Nash-Stoudemire pick-n-roll would have provided a quality change of pace in the final 2 minutes).

[DPG21920]

I don't think Mike supported it which is why he is now coaching the Knicks and cited the fact that the management's lack of faith in him as a reason. Diaw was killing the Spurs and is a match-up problem, but he probably did over-use it.

[RonMexico]

I don't think Mike supported it which is why he is now coaching the Knicks and cited the fact that the management's lack of faith in him as a reason. Diaw was killing the Spurs and is a match-up problem, but he probably did over-use it.

It was a great strategy during the game to use Diaw in the post on Manu because he's a good passer, is stronger, and has a nice jump hook. However, when you're on your opponents' floor, you go to your bread and butter with your MVP and most athletic big man. Diaw's inexperience what the situation and that offensive set led to a costly turnover.

I think Mike felt a lack of support after the Suns bowed out 4-1 with a team that definitely could have beat the Spurs or at least forced 7 games. I mean, Game 1 could have been the best game in the Western Conference Playoffs last year and then they go out like wimps. The front office probably said that they'd like to see him develop backups more, rest Nash and Hill, and look to acquire/utilize defensive-minded role players. He's too stubborn and thin-skinned, so he bolted. Not unlike V-Span. You can't go 7-deep for an entire NBA season and playoffs and expect to win.

I just don't think the Suns' window is closed because so many talking heads say it is because Pierce, Allen, and KG were aging superstars who had the will and desire to obtain an NBA title. Sure, Bynum will be back and the talented youth in the West and a new-look Rockets will prove imposing, but you can't descredit quality role players and experienced veterans, which the Suns have. The Spurs have won with "aging" players and role players and the Celtics won with role players like Posey and Eddie House.

[DaDakota]

:lmao Your on crack if you think that roster was as good as the Mavs.....a young Yao and a Tmac playing his first year as a Houston Rocket vs. a stacked Mavs team. Please stop the bullcrap....who were heavy favorites (and for good reason) in that series. You are honestly going to call out my bball knowledge and then post crap like that. :lol

Sorry, I somehow missed this post....heavy favorites? This was a 4 vs 5 matchup, and Houston was up 2-0 going home for 2 games, but Avery went small and JVG failed to counter....and Dallas won 4 of the next 5, the last one by like 40 points.

That was the day, I knew that JVG was not a championship caliber coach...a guy who is too stubborn to make adjustments needs to be fired.

GOOD RIDDANCE !!

DD