Elliott or Bowen?

[xtremesteven33]

My friends and I debated this topic...


hypothetically, if you had to chose a SF. who would you pick for the spurs small foward position? both in thier prime.

:hat

[tp2021]

Gist!

[Bartleby]

James White!

[I. Hustle]

SEAN Hands down http://www.nba.com/media/spurs/elliott_trophy_200w.jpg

[weebo]

This is easy. Bowen by far has been more important to the history of the Spur's success than any other SF. Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_ may have been better basketball skilled and the better athlete but no where near the lock down defender Bowen is. Besides, Sean Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_ is overrated as a Spur in my opinion. He was partly responsible for the Spurs playoff failures back in the 90s.

[rAm]

This is easy. Bowen by far has been more important to the history of the Spur's success than any other SF. Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_ may have been better basketball skilled and the better athlete but no where near the lock down defender Bowen is. Besides, Sean Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_ is overrated as a Spur in my opinion. He was partly responsible for the Spurs playoff failures back in the 90s.

rofl

Elliott for sure

[tmtcsc]

Depends on who else is on the court. Bowen is the best perimeter defender we've probably ever had and is a better 3 pt shooter than Elliott ever was...and Elliott was good.

Bowen is great if you have players who can take the ball to the rim. If you don't, than Sean may be a better fit.

[baseline bum]

Bruce, mainly because Sean was always hurt.

[Sean Cagney]

Bowen is a better defender than Sean ever was (We have Tim Tony and Manu for O already). Sean was very athletic and could slash and shoot the rock, plus he was a good defender in his prime. all around was a better player, but his prime did not last very long because of injuries and he never lived up to the great potential he displayed in 94-95. Bowen the the best wing defender in our time IMO, he literally during our runs has shut down or atleast slowed down great players enough for the Spurs to get past them, people don't know how much that really means! In 05 he got switched to Billups and that won the series IMO, he made HUGE stops or made him miss at the ends of game 5 and 7, without those stops we lose IMO. Bowen is what we need on this team, Sean was fine and a great player but I gotta go Bruce on this one.

[baseline bum]

Sean's last name ends with two ts!!! (still :lmao @ timvp's crackdown)

Elliott

[lebomb]

Sean.....no wait.....Bruce....but, hold on......Elliott.......what? who.......Bruce.......no.....uhhhhh..............

[mrspurs]

Sean.....no wait.....Bruce....but, hold on......Elliott.......what? who.......Bruce.......no.....uhhhhh..............

and so on..............

[xtremesteven33]

its not that easy of a decision. Elliott is no pushover when defense is concerned. he also has a greater offensive arsenal than Bowen.

i just remember yelling at sean in the 99 Finals for not being aggressive enough. took me awhile to get over that

[Hemotivo]

Elliott = All Star

[urunobili]

They both bring/brought different things to the table...

Bowen has more rings than Eliott so... i'll stick with Bruce

[rascal]

Elliott. Bowens game is ugly.

[Sean Cagney]

Elliott = All Star

Oh yeah on a team not named the Spurs I might take him, but Tim is an all star, Ginobili has been one and Parker, so a fourth on the team is not really needed. SA needed him to play D on the other teams best player and hit corner threes, and he did just that and that alone. Elliott could not guard the Kobes, Lebrons and so on and have the success Bowen had during his prime (I bet on that), he could play better O but during the Spurs title runs Bowen was key on key players and did the role we needed.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Elliott, no question.

[DespЏrado]

If Elliott's D could be faulted it would be easy to choose Bowen as a better all around player for his championship game experience and lock down defense. But the fact of the matter was that Elliott was a very capable defender and had an all star level offensive game. So you have to give Elliott the nod on your team, as a player Elliott just brings enough on defense to give him the nod over Bruce.

I'm just glad we found both and that they both will retire members of the Spur family.

[DespЏrado]

i just remember yelling at sean in the 99 Finals for not being aggressive enough. took me awhile to get over that
Yeah and later we learned that there was a very good reason for that...

[xtremesteven33]

Yeah and later we learned that there was a very good reason for that...


yea when i found out why i forgave him pretty fast and actually admired that he could even play through that kind of pain :toast

[Spurs Brazil]

Elliott was a better player but Bruce did more things to help us win championships

[timvp]

Elliott healthy and in his prime was a better player. However, Bowen has now had the better career.

[manufor3]

depends on where you look at it from. if you look for better o you go to elliott. better d is bowen. i would choose elliott though.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Elliott healthy and in his prime was a better player. However, Bowen has now had the better career.

That's a good way to put it.

Bruce is a winner, plain and simple. He loves winning and does what it takes to win. Probably the most underrated part of the Spurs championship puzzle.

I love Sean, though, and I think if you put a 'in his prime' Sean Elliott with Manu, Parker and Duncan that that team would be sick.




Too hard to choose.

[jcrod]

Oh yeah on a team not named the Spurs I might take him, but Tim is an all star, Ginobili has been one and Parker, so a fourth on the team is not really needed. SA needed him to play D on the other teams best player and hit corner threes, and he did just that and that alone. Elliott could not guard the Kobes, Lebrons and so on and have the success Bowen had during his prime (I bet on that), he could play better O but during the Spurs title runs Bowen was key on key players and did the role we needed.

I disagree, Sean was an underrated defender. He would guard Jordan pretty good and at 6'8 has the size to guard Lebron.

Sean offense game and above average Defense would beat out Bowen great defense and limited offense.

If it weren't for injury's he would've had an even better career.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I disagree, Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_ was an underrated defender. He would guard Jordan pretty good and at 6'8 has the size to guard Lebron.

Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_ offense game and above average Defense would beat out Bowen great defense and limited offense.

If it weren't for injury's he would've had an even better career.

:rollin

[jcrod]

:rollin

:lol I know I keep forgetting about that, i changed it right after I submitted.

[Ocotillo]

Can I have them both?

When Sean was playing under Pop, he was the best perimeter defender on the team. He consistently made the other teams best player work very hard for their points the same as Bruce does.

Don't simply put stock into Bruce having more rings. The early part of Sean's career, at least post-Larry Brown was a turnstile of coaches and he was shipped off to Detroit for a while. The Spurs generally lacked a quality point guard for the first half of Sean's career which also contributed to DRob not getting any rings until Avery and Tim showed up with Pop as coach.

Can you imagine the '99 Spurs with Bowen in place of JJ?

[hater]

and who's gonna guard the opponent's best player???

Bruuuuuce bitches!

[xtremesteven33]

i told my friends its way too difficult to decide but if you held a gun to my head my initial reaction would be....









BRUUUUUUUUCEEE!!!!

[rj215]

Sean by a little bit...like the little bit of space he had when he hit the shot in the '99 WCF against the Blazers! :toast

[alamo50]

What else do you and your friend debate about?
Who is most likely to go to church; the pope or satan?

[xtremesteven33]

What else do you and your friend debate about?
Who is most likely to go to church; the pope or satan?





haha....very intense and indepth debates....

[hater]

Sean by a little bit...like the little bit of space he had when he hit the shot in the '99 WCF against the Blazers! :toast

sE6WkyPDSF8

JFfCCU4CVg4

tFvVztx801A

[DisAsTerBot]

#32 hands down

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

It depends on which Spurs team you're talking about. Bowen fits his niche as perfectly as any role player I've even fit with a team. On a team with a Big 3 like the Spurs a player who does little more than shoot corner threes and defend like a mad man fits perfectly. On such a team Elliott's touches would probably be minimized, so why not take the better defender of the two? But if I were building a team from scratch, I, and I imagine most any GM would take an above average defender who can get you 15-20 pts per game over a lock down defender who needs other players demanding a double team to get his shot off.

[E20]

Bruce sort of sucked in the years that were supposed to be his 'prime'.

[xtremesteven33]

Bruce sort of sucked in the years that were supposed to be his 'prime'.

"You know something you suck!"

-Billy Madison

[Spooky]

Easy choice for me. I would take Sean in his prime over Bowen in his prime.

:sombrero:

[baseline bum]

The more I think about, the more I'm convinced it's Bruce without a shadow of a doubt. I don't think the Spurs even win a second title without him.

[Bruno]

It's quite a shame that Elliott has a script to protect his t's while whottt has nothing like that.

[Spurs Brazil]

I have a different question.

If you rank the top Spurs all-time who would come 1st?

I say Bruce

[LakerHater]

[youtube]ELrBX1lkN04[youtube]

[samikeyp]

Easy choice for me. I would take Sean in his prime over Bowen in his prime.

:sombrero:

+1

Although I do believe #12 will hang next to #32 one day.

[Spuradicator]

I love them both, but if pressed I'd go with Sean

[barbacoataco]

I followed the Spurs closer in the mid-90's than I do now, so I throw my 2 cents in. Sean was a great guy (Taco Cabana) and in terms of talent he was better than Bowen. At times he looked like one of the better players in the league. However, he was a huge choker who totally vanished in pressure situations. He was a big reason the mid-90's Spurs always chokes in the playoffs. Hate to say it, but it is the truth.

Bowen on the other hand is my favorite Spur. In my opinion he is the most underrated member of the 2003-2007 teams. Great defense, CLUTCH 3-pt shooting (check out his playoff stats) and he is never injured.

Like some other posters said, it depends on the team you have. But I would take Bowen over Sean.

[LakerHater]

ELrBX1lkN04
Awesome and unbelievable hang time!!!
Kinda reminds me of Tom Chambers.

[jcrod]

I followed the Spurs closer in the mid-90's than I do now, so I throw my 2 cents in. Sean was a great guy (Taco Cabana) and in terms of talent he was better than Bowen. At times he looked like one of the better players in the league. However, he was a huge choker who totally vanished in pressure situations. He was a big reason the mid-90's Spurs always chokes in the playoffs. Hate to say it, but it is the truth.

Bowen on the other hand is my favorite Spur. In my opinion he is the most underrated member of the 2003-2007 teams. Great defense, CLUTCH 3-pt shooting (check out his playoff stats) and he is never injured.

Like some other posters said, it depends on the team you have. But I would take Bowen over Sean.

He sure was choking when he hit that three. Its easy to call both Robinson and Sean chokers when they were the team and nothing else.

Bowen gets wide open 3's, Sean had to always create his own shot and still save energy to defend on the other end. Give me Sean regardless of what team you have, he has offense (20ppg) and defense. I'll take Bowen coming off the bench.

[Magic_Johnson]

i take bruce when he played in france
20ppg flashy dunk and all :wakeup

[mrspurs]

Elliott. Bowens game is ugly.

key point, bowen couldnt make layup or 5 footer if his life depended on it, and he's always open..........how a man can make a shot from the arc, and not from 5 feet away ill never understand......:wow

[rascal]

Elliott was a better player but Bruce did more things to help us win championships

Elliott was a much better all around player in his prime. Bruce was on more championship teams only because he played with Duncan more years. Exchange Bowen with Elliott in his prime and the spurs get more titles.

[Sean Cagney]

I disagree, Sean was an underrated defender. He would guard Jordan pretty good and at 6'8 has the size to guard Lebron.

Sean offense game and above average Defense would beat out Bowen great defense and limited offense.

If it weren't for injury's he would've had an even better career.

I know he was an underrated defender, but he was never a lock down defender on the wing like Bowen was or is. Bowen has been in the run for DPOY many of times and all first D team or second, he has literally played his azz off on D during our title runs. Sean did not have the success on D that Bowen has had, his D just has such a big impact on the game it's crazy. We need a Bowen on our team for our title runs.

If Sean stayed healthy his career he would have the better career, no question about that! Would he have been key on our title teams though? I am talking in his prime would he have hit the threes Bowen has hit in the playoff runs and played the lock down D on a Bron, Kobe (In 03 especially), Billups, Nash and so on? I just don't know.

[Sean Cagney]

sE6WkyPDSF8

JFfCCU4CVg4

tFvVztx801A

THAT VIDEO KICKS AZZ, I remember them ALL WELL!

[DROB4EVER]

Sean hands down.

[Spurtacus]

Bowen.

[weebo]

Bowen would lock down Sean

[Elraptor]

Bowen.

[alamo50]

C´mon people!
Sean was a freakin´ All-Star!

I know about Bruce´s world permier D, but you need to look at all combined.

[MoSpur]

I'm partial towards Sean because he was my favorite Spur. He has more of an offensive game than Bowen, but Bowen is a better defender. Bowen could defend the likes of Dirk, Kobe, and Nash. I don't think Sean could defend those positions if asked. Who knows?

[I. Hustle]

I'm partial towards Sean because he was my favorite Spur. He has more of an offensive game than Bowen, but Bowen is a better defender. Bowen could defend the likes of Dirk, Kobe, and Nash. I don't think Sean could defend those positions if asked. Who knows?

hhhmmmm Sean is my all time favorite too

[rAm]

a poll to settle this would have been nice

[SenorSpur]

Wow! This is a very tough question.

In evaluating both, Sean was, no doubt, the better all-around player. While he wasn't the "lock-down" defender Bowen has been, he was the best perimeter defender on those Spurs teams that he played on. He was routinely a decent scorer (14 ppg), so he was the better offensive player. He was also lethal from the 3-pt line (37% career - bang!), a great FT shooter (80%) and he was an underrated rebounder (4.3 rpg).

Bowen, on the other hand, is one THE best perimeter defenders in league history. He could've and should've easily been DPOY at least once in the past 5-6 seasons. He's the 2nd best perimeter defender in Spurs history (Alvin Robertson being the first). Bowen's nightly responsibilities of locking down and shutting out the opposition's best perimeter player have been nothing short of phenomenal. His contributions are largely responsible for the success of the Spurs vaunted defensive schemes. Surprisingly, Bowen has the edge as a 3-pt shooter (40% career) and his midrange game has slowly become evident the past couple of seasons. Outside of that, he doesn't create much offense for himself or others (1.3 apg) and has been a very poor rebounder (3 rpg).

Overall, I'd have to give Sean the nod because of his all-around abilities. As many have stated, injuries and health issues shortened his career. However, anyone who questioned his heart or mental makeup need only look at the '99 championship season for a full-on display of a courageous athlete. One who kept his kidney illness a secret in pursuit of the larger team goal of winning a title and still performed admirably under such adverse health conditions. Bowen is a health nut and a physical freak-of-nature. Yet, only Alonzo Mourning and others who've had kidney aliments can truly understand or appreciate how poorly Elliott felt and what he had to overcome to persevere during that run.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Sean Elliott never had the luxury of playing with the caliber of teammates that Bruce Bowen has. For the majority of his career, he was the second best payer on the team (arguments for Terry Cummings, aside). Even in 1999, he was the third best player on the team. Bowen, as phenomenal of a defender as he is, has never been better than the 4th best player on the team. So, yeah, you give Bruce the edge for rings and for defense, but he never had the ball in his hands at the end of the game to win it. There's a huge difference in responsibility there.

You also can't underestimate the Memorial Day Miracle and its impact on franchise history. That was the biggest shot in team history by a landslide, and it changed the Spurs karma forever. Prior to that shot, we had endured playoff collapse after playoff collapse. We were the freaking Mavericks before he tiptoed the line and improbably nailed that three over Rasheed's outstretched hand. How do you quantify the impact that shot had?

Don't get me wrong.... I love me some Bruce. He's almost certainly the best perimeter defender in a generation and he deserves to have his number retired, but Sean Elliott was the better and more impactful player.

[SenorSpur]

You also can't underestimate the Memorial Day Miracle and its impact on franchise history. That was the biggest shot in team history by a landslide, and it changed the Spurs karma forever. Prior to that shot, we had endured playoff collapse after playoff collapse. We were the freaking Mavericks before he tiptoed the line and improbably nailed that three over Rasheed's outstretched hand. How do you quantify the impact that shot had?


How do you quantify that shot? Good question. That was truly the shot heard around the NBA playoffs. I remember hearing several Spur players on that roster point to that shot as the moment they knew that team was destined to win it all.

Looks like it was ranked in the top 10 Greatest shots in NBA history!

http://www.nba.com/history/top10_shot.html

[rascal]

Bowen would lock down Sean

Sean would lock down Bowen.

Bowen would distrupt the entire team by the way he plays offense. Bowens skillset would be useless as the spurs become a more up tempo team built on offensive firepower. The interior defense of Robinson and Duncan would be enough defense with that offense.

I merged this thread with the spurs all time team thread but I would rather have Elliott on the all time team than Bowen so that answers the ? Bowen or Elliott.

[BWS-1994]

I'd pick Sean because of his versatility.

His skills and length over Bruce's def and durability.

[Obstructed_View]

Bowen for defense, team leadership and clutch shooting.

This from a guy who's posting less than three feet from a big Sean Elliott poster. I love the guy, but Ninja was a good nickname for him, because he could suddenly disappear without warning.

[blizz]

C'mon..it's not even a question. Elliott all the way. He was a very good defender, could get his own shot, could shoot and rebound. Bowen has had way more time with this team than Elliott had so the "Bowen has more rings, Bowen is a winner" talk is bullshit. You're telling me with Elliott in his prime on this team with Duncan, TP and Gino, we wouldn't have AS many if not more rings? Everyone is crying for an athletic SF to put on this team and when faced with having Sean Elliott on the team, some of you are picking Bowen? That's stooopid.

[Obstructed_View]

C'mon..it's not even a question. Elliott all the way. He was a very good defender, could get his own shot, could shoot and rebound. Bowen has had way more time with this team than Elliott had so the "Bowen has more rings, Bowen is a winner" talk is bullshit. You're telling me with Elliott in his prime on this team with Duncan, TP and Gino, we wouldn't have AS many if not more rings? Everyone is crying for an athletic SF to put on this team and when faced with having Sean Elliott on the team, some of you are picking Bowen? That's stooopid.

Wrong. Other than the year he was in Detroit, Sean played his entire career with the Spurs. That's about four more years than Bruce.

[samikeyp]

Wrong. Other than the year he was in Detroit, Sean played his entire career with the Spurs. That's about four more years than Bruce.

Good call.

7 for Bruce
11 for Sean

[rascal]

Good call.

7 for Bruce
11 for Sean

But how many with Duncan. The spurs could never get to the top until Duncan came.

[samikeyp]

But how many with Duncan. The spurs could never get to the top until Duncan came.

Agreed. In the end, its all about #21 in the Spurs title era.

[HarlemHeat37]

better player? Elliott, easily..

who I'd rather have on my team? Bowen..assuming I'd have 2 star players in my lineup, I'd love to have a Bowen on my team as a role player..the guy has been arguably the best perimeter defender of this generation..a smart player..consistent from 3's..a great veteran leader..

you can find A LOT of players that are "better" than Bowen..but there aren't many role players that I would take over Bruce..

[blizz]

Wrong. Other than the year he was in Detroit, Sean played his entire career with the Spurs. That's about four more years than Bruce.

LOL, you highlighted the very phrase that illustrates my point. I said THIS team...IE...Duncan, Gino, TP......come on man, can't you make sense of the things you read?

[blizz]

But how many with Duncan. The spurs could never get to the top until Duncan came.

Exactly.

[Obstructed_View]

But how many with Duncan. The spurs could never get to the top until Duncan came.

Funny how playoff failure doesn't stick to Elliott in these conversations.


LOL, you highlighted the very phrase that illustrates my point. I said THIS team...IE...Duncan, Gino, TP......come on man, can't you make sense of the things you read?
Only things that are actually sensible. Hypotheticals are really neat because they are impossible to prove. One player stepped up in big games, the other didn't. Just because he had more talent is irrelevant. Watch a replay of AJ's shot against the Knicks and you see a wide-open Sean (good shooter) passing to a point guard with a bad jumper to hit the series clincher.