Are we witnessing Lebron Jame's prime right now?

[TheMadHatter]

I'll play Devil's Advocate here....

Lebron is not a shooter. His mechanics and form aren't good and it's unlikely that even with practice he will ever get to the level of MJ or Kobe as far as getting defenses to respect his shot.

Lebron will not get much more atheltic than he is now. Players typically hit their athletic peak around 23-26. Think back to Kobe during his '05-06 season and compare that to now, huge difference.

Lebron's game is heavily dependent on his insane athleticism. Take that away and he's probably not even an All-Star in this league. 6 years in this league and he has yet to even develop any semblance of a post game and his free throw shooting is still mediocre. Even though MJ developed his midrange game late in his career he was always a good FT shooter.

IMHO Lebron will probably take the mantle away from Kobe next season as the best perimeter player in the league next year. But he won't hold it as long as Kobe did because his game will never diversify the way Kobe and MJ did. What we will see with Lebron is a few years of incredible dominance and a very steep decline when his athleticism fades.

[Spur-Addict]

You are a hater.

[TheMadHatter]

You are a hater.

What part of "I'll play Devil's Advocate here...." did you not understand?

[The Franchise]

You are a hater.

[Leetonidas]

You are a hater.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

You are a hater.

[Spur-Addict]

What part of "I'll play Devil's Advocate here...." did you not understand?

The origin of this statement is from another thread. In general, you are a hater, period. You'll have to excuse me, I care nothing about this thread in general, I simply only care about calling you a hater, HATER.

[stretch]

Lebron's game is heavily dependent on his insane athleticism.

that is the case for almost every big star in NBA history. take away Jordan's athleticism, and hes lucky to be an all-star. dominique wilkins. kobe. the main way they are able to showcase their skills are because of their specific athleticism. you are clearly a hater and jealous of Lebron. if you werent, then you wouldnt even bother addressing any lebron/kobe comparisons.

[stretch]

You are a hater.

[TheMadHatter]

Hehe, didn't know we had so many CLE fans in the house. Get their panties in a bunch whenever anyone badmouths poor little Bron Bron. :lmao

[sook]

You are a hater.

[ducks]

you talk bad about a player you are labeled a hater
pathetic

[TheMadHatter]

I'm not even talking shit about James.....just fucking around to see if we can get a debate going. Like I said, ppl here have a major hard-on for James.....they get all riled up when you talk shit about him.

Side note, it's hilarious to see how shitty reading comprehension is these days. I can see 99% of posters here failed miserably on that part of their SAT's.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

You are a hater.

[ThunderStix®]

you talk bad about a player you are labeled a hater
pathetic

Ducks, do you believe Tony Parker is better than LeBron James?

Just wondering. :lol

[manufor3]

You are a hater.

[DANILO DRASKOVIC]

no

[gaKNOW!blee]

what makes you think kobe is a good shooter?

[mrspurs]

so much hate

[Kobe™]

You are a hater.

[Heath Ledger]

kobe has been a bricklayer in the olympics

[BUMP]

what makes you think kobe is a good shooter?
he takes a lot of shots

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Hehe, didn't know we had so many CLE fans in the house. Get their panties in a bunch whenever anyone badmouths poor little Bron Bron. :lmao

This coming from a Laker fan :lmao you fuckers get all riled up when someone disses Kobe, so what the fuck are you complaining about :lol

[TheMadHatter]

:lmao

[anakha]

you talk bad about a player you are labeled a hater
pathetic

This, coming from ducks? Priceless. :rollin

[Mister Sinister]

so much hate
HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE!

[Thunder Dan]

I think the Olympics are showing that Lebron is the best player in the league right now, and he will only get better because he is only 23. Kobe looks good for the Lakers, but he doesn't look very impressive shooting only 10 times a game.

[ducks]

because the Olympics have proven what?

[ThunderStix®]

So are you gonna awnser my question, Ducks?

[ducks]

I think the Olympics are showing that Lebron is the best player in the league right now, and he will only get better because he is only 23. Kobe looks good for the Lakers, but he doesn't look very impressive shooting only 10 times a game.

the league is not the Olympics
duncan sucked at the Olympics does that make him suck in the nba

kobe has been assigned to play d
and he has done a good job on that

[dirk4mvp]

Compare LeBron's jumpshot now comared to his rookie year.


If he didn't have a jumper, he wouldn't have done that thing to Detroit.

[dirk4mvp]

It will not be long from now when LeBron is by far and away the best player in the nba.

[ThunderStix®]

It will not be long from now when LeBron is by far and away the best player in the nba.

I agree, Ducks is just in denial.

[ducks]

It will not be long from now when LeBron is by far and away the best player in the nba.

who says he will resign in the nba:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:l mao

[TheMadHatter]

Lebron already is close to being the best player in the NBA. He will take the mantle away from Kobe next year IMHO.

What makes him so dominant though IS his freakish athleticism, he doesn't dazzle you with his fundamentals or footwork. He's had 6 years to improve upon his shooting and he is still just mediocre IMHO (and he does get almost wide open looks because his driving game must be respected). He also has no post game whatsoever, which just makes no sense since he would do quite well there.

I just don't see a strong midrange game anywhere in Lebron's future. MJ may not have developed that part of his game until later in his career, but he was ALWAYS a good FT shooter. That's the difference IMHO, Lebron is a mediocre free throw shooter with mediocre mechanics and shooting form. Some people just aren't good shooters and no amount of practice will get them there. I think with Lebron he will probably marginally improve over the years but never anywhere near it needs to be for him to continue to be dominant as he ages and his athleticism goes away.

But that is the catch with Lebron. If he was focusing on his shooting he wouldn't be as great a player as he is. He is great because he can score in the paint at will, which will always be a higher percentage shot than out on the perimeter.

[dirk4mvp]

who says he will resign in the nba:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:l mao


stop making yourself looking like a dumbass.

If not the NBA, then the best player in the world. Which pretty much go hand in hand.

[rj215]

Lebron is the most physically gifted athlete in the NBA...even more than Dwight Howard...and when his mental approach to the game matches his physical gifts, he'll be unstopable....His weakness now is his outside shot and the Spurs took advantage of that in the '07 Finals...but if he ever gets that outside shot and 3pt shot going he could average a triple double...

[monosylab1k]

I'll play Dumb Asshole here....

fixed

[monosylab1k]

He's had 6 years to improve upon his shooting and he is still just mediocre IMHO (and he does get almost wide open looks because his driving game must be respected).

Another idiotic take. You obviously haven't seen any of LeBron with all your Kobe knobslobbing.

LeBron's jumper has improved SIGNIFICANTLY since he first came into the league. His shot is respectable now. Not as consistent as Kobe or Jordan, but definitely respectable. Ask the Pistons about his jumper, they saw him singlehandedly beat the hell out of them in that Game 5 with his jump shot.

BTW LeBron's Game 5 is better than any single performance Kobe has ever had. Ever. 81 points in a regular season game against a shitty Raptors team is nice.....but LeBron's 48 against one of the best defensive teams in the league in a pivotal Eastern Conference Finals Game is more impressive.

Just another stupid Kobe dicksucker jealous that LeBron is better. :lol all these Lakers fans thought the Olympics would be the stage for Kobe to show the world he's the GOAT and he's been upstaged by LeBron, Wade, Carmelo, AND Chris Bosh.

[baseline bum]

Lebron already is close to being the best player in the NBA. He will take the mantle away from Kobe next year IMHO.


LeBron took that title a couple of years ago, but it was from Duncan and not Kobe.

[Blackjack]

This is coming from a dude that peaked with his "Gay Love" sig.

Hey... Just because your dream was crushed with the Love/Mayo trade (sending you into an ugly downward spiral) it doesn't mean you need to start acting like some bitter ass-hat.

I know... I know... You're playing the "devil's advocate." Give me a fucking break. That's the equivalent to the "No offense but..." line in a attempt to lessen the blow. (Which always ends in failure)

So in conclusion, your attempt of shitting on James without suffering collateral damage(using your "devil's advocate") has ended in failure. Please feel free to go violate your Kobe doll (Sorry.... "Action Figure") and allow yourself to dream of being a certain Colorado hotel attendant.

It was a good sig. kid, and you should feel real proud of yourself.:tu It's a shame your prime couldn't have lasted any longer but it's as they say, (or was that you?) "All good things must come to an end."

[BUMP]

I think the Olympics are showing that Lebron is the best player in the league right now, and he will only get better because he is only 23. Kobe looks good for the Lakers, but he doesn't look very impressive shooting only 10 times a game.

agreed. Kobe's struggles have really surprised but what hasnt surprised me is the fact that he doesnt get the calls that he usually does in the NBA. in the NBA he gets in a rhythm with cheap fouls and free throws, these same calls dont go his way in the Olympics, while Lebron not only is shooting better, but he is playing through contact and still finishing plays.

[TheMACHINE]

Lebron sure can Dunk!

He'll be crazy once he learns how to shoot, post and defend!

[TheMadHatter]

Another idiotic take. You obviously haven't seen any of LeBron with all your Kobe knobslobbing.

LeBron's jumper has improved SIGNIFICANTLY since he first came into the league. His shot is respectable now. Not as consistent as Kobe or Jordan, but definitely respectable. Ask the Pistons about his jumper, they saw him singlehandedly beat the hell out of them in that Game 5 with his jump shot.

BTW LeBron's Game 5 is better than any single performance Kobe has ever had. Ever. 81 points in a regular season game against a shitty Raptors team is nice.....but LeBron's 48 against one of the best defensive teams in the league in a pivotal Eastern Conference Finals Game is more impressive.

Just another stupid Kobe dicksucker jealous that LeBron is better. :lol all these Lakers fans thought the Olympics would be the stage for Kobe to show the world he's the GOAT and he's been upstaged by LeBron, Wade, Carmelo, AND Chris Bosh.

:lmao

I don't even have to try to get the Bron Bron lovers riled up. Priceless.

This same thread topic was actually posted on another basketball forum not too long ago.

[TDMVPDPOY]

the haters player club hahaha

[TheMadHatter]

I've determined ST is exactly like that show Crossfire that used to be on CNN. Partisan hacks from both sides just screaming nonsense for 30 minutes, no intelligent debate to be had.

[Mister Sinister]

MadHatter, what can I say about your thread, that hasn't been said about Afghanistan. It looks bombed out, and depleted!

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

He's in his prime now, and for the next 7-8 years...

[KidCongo]

Laker fan wishes.

[MrChug]

Is he in his prime?? HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllllll naw.

But as he falls off due to lack of motivation, don't mistake that for his "twilight years". He'll change his game a little bit like Jordan did, but due to his freakish size I can see him being more a facilitator and still as unstoppable from the post at a SF. And of course his jumper will become more consistent.

[Kobe™]

It's ok though Kobe will have 3 more rings b4 it's all said n done.

[monosylab1k]

I've determined ST is exactly like that show Crossfire that used to be on CNN. Partisan hacks from both sides just screaming nonsense for 30 minutes, no intelligent debate to be had.

You really add to the cause with dumb shit threads like this.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I've determined ST is exactly like that show Crossfire that used to be on CNN. Partisan hacks from both sides just screaming nonsense for 30 minutes, no intelligent debate to be had.

Only in the political forum... :lmao

[Thunder Dan]

It's ok though Kobe will have 3 more rings b4 it's all said n done.

Lebron was closer to beating the Celtics last year by himself than Kobe was with a team around him

[Tully365]

I'd say LeBron's court vision, passing ablility, hoops IQ, competitiveness, and leadership qualities are all extremely high. Being able to outjump almost every player he goes up against helps, but he's a lot more than a gifted leaper. His decline is a looong ways off.

[Mad_Hatter]

You are a hater.

[baseline bum]

Lebron's game is heavily dependent on his insane athleticism. Take that away and he's probably not even an All-Star in this league.


His court vision and quick thinking alone ensures he's an allstar, even if he Livingston's his knee.



6 years in this league and he has yet to even develop any semblance of a post game and his free throw shooting is still mediocre. Even though MJ developed his midrange game late in his career he was always a good FT shooter.


He's the initiator of the offense. Why is he going to go down on the block? He can't be the point and the center at the same time.

[NBA Junkie]

His court vision and quick thinking alone ensures he's an allstar, even if he Livingston's his knee.

It's these attributes that will ensure that he remains an all-star even when his athleticism starts to slowly decline.

This is the reason why MJ, Bird, Magic etc.. remained at a high level when they aged.

[JamStone]

His court vision and quick thinking alone ensures he's an allstar, even if he Livingston's his knee.


Penny Hardaway agrees with you.

[stretch]

you know what is scary? the fact that Kobe is a complete and fully developed player, while Lebron is only like 23 and not even close to being fully developed, as there are many holes in his game that people speak of, yet he is still widely considered the best player in the game. wait till he fixes these holes up a little more... if he does, he will unquestionably meet the Jordan comparisons, and possibly even surpass them.

[JamStone]

From an individual skills and talent point of view, absolutely. There is the mental edge, fierce competitor, and winning championships aspects that are required for the comparison even if LeBron is a freak of an athlete and polishes all those holes. Athletically and basketball talent wise, Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady can be compared to Jordan. It's not their basketball skill or athleticism that prevents that comparison. It's leadership, work ethic, attitude, and lack of winning that does.

[stretch]

From an individual skills and talent point of view, absolutely. There is the mental edge, fierce competitor, and winning championships aspects that are required for the comparison even if LeBron is a freak of an athlete and polishes all those holes. Athletically and basketball talent wise, Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady can be compared to Jordan. It's not their basketball skill or athleticism that prevents that comparison. It's leadership, work ethic, attitude, and lack of winning that does.

I understand that. Fortunately, Lebron doesnt have any of those problems. He is among the best leaders in the NBA (far superior to Kobe), has amazing work ethic, has a great attitude, and has a great winners mentality. Its those things that make him as good, if not better than Kobe already, even though he hasnt finished developing and polishing his game.

[JamStone]

He still has to win.

[stretch]

He still has to win.

no shit dumbass

good god you are a hater

[JamStone]

wait till he fixes these holes up a little more... if he does, he will unquestionably meet the Jordan comparisons, and possibly even surpass them.

You apparently didn't feel winning championships mattered as long as LeBron fixed those holes.

Don't be upset I corrected you.

[JoeTait75]

He still has to win.

He will.

[JamStone]

And, if he does, the comparisons will be fine.

If he doesn't, even if he fixes all the holes in his game, there won't be anything to compare. He definitely won't have "unquestionably met" the comparisons. And, it's ignorant to assume he would simply by fixing his individual game.

It's also important to note that leadership wise, LeBron is not very similar to Michael Jordan at all. In fact, Kobe is much more similar from a leadership point of view to Michael Jordan than LeBron is. Jordan was a dick, he intimidated teammates, hated his rivals, and demanded his way all the time. That's Kobe. It's lost with Jordan because he won. It's about the winning. LeBron is still friends with Carlos Boozer. Jordan never would be. Jordan would never admit that another player was clearly better than him, as LeBron has said of Kobe over and over and over again.

LeBron is more likeable. He does lead by example. But, that is not the way Jordan did it. If Jordan didn't win championships, he would be perceived as a bitch just like Kobe.

It's about winning championships. For all we know, LeBron could surpass Jordan individually in athleticism and skills. It still comes down to the winning. That's how stretch is misguided in his comments. No shit, dumbass.

[DPG21920]

He must be thirsty:

http://www.twistedmasterpiece.com/images/product_images/haterade.gif

[JoeTait75]

It's also important to note that leadership wise, LeBron is not very similar to Michael Jordan at all. In fact, Kobe is much more similar from a leadership point of view to Michael Jordan than LeBron is. Jordan was a dick, he intimidated teammates, hated his rivals, and demanded his way all the time. That's Kobe. It's lost with Jordan because he won. It's about the winning. LeBron is still friends with Carlos Boozer. Jordan never would be. Jordan would never admit that another player was clearly better than him, as LeBron has said of Kobe over and over and over again.

LeBron is more likeable. He does lead by example. But, that is not the way Jordan did it. If Jordan didn't win championships, he would be perceived as a bitch just like Kobe.

He doesn't lead through intimidation, no. But he does lead, vocally. You can see it in the way he talks to his teammates during timeouts, the way he directs traffic offensively and defensively. He may not have the same personal style as MJ or Kobe, but he's no shrinking violet. He's in charge out there, and he takes responsibility, he puts the team on his shoulders, he never shirks it, never points fingers, never makes excuses. Those are important qualities for a leader.

I think it speaks volumes that he's the acknowledged leader of the Olympic team as well.

[stretch]

You apparently didn't feel winning championships mattered as long as LeBron fixed those holes.

Don't be upset I corrected you.

he is already winning quite a bit with a shit team and holes in his game. i doubt that if he improves his game, that he is going to start losing suddenly, unless his team actually gets worse (which is hard to believe)

[stretch]

It's also important to note that leadership wise, LeBron is not very similar to Michael Jordan at all. In fact, Kobe is much more similar from a leadership point of view to Michael Jordan than LeBron is. Jordan was a dick, he intimidated teammates, hated his rivals, and demanded his way all the time. That's Kobe. It's lost with Jordan because he won. It's about the winning. LeBron is still friends with Carlos Boozer. Jordan never would be. Jordan would never admit that another player was clearly better than him, as LeBron has said of Kobe over and over and over again.

Jordan was more vocal on the court than Kobe. And Kobe himself admitts that Lebron is a better vocal and floor leader than him.

How Lebron leads his team is up to him. The winning is all that matters. the comparisons to Jordan aren't in terms of doing everything the exact same way. the comparisons are about their greatness. obviously you missed that point, or you just chose to try to be an ignorant asshole as usual.

[TheMadHatter]

Jordan was more vocal on the court than Kobe. And Kobe himself admitts that Lebron is a better vocal and floor leader than him.

How Lebron leads his team is up to him. The winning is all that matters. the comparisons to Jordan aren't in terms of doing everything the exact same way. the comparisons are about their greatness. obviously you missed that point, or you just chose to try to be an ignorant asshole as usual.

When did Kobe admit this? I smell BS.

If anything is overblown in sports it's this whole notion of making your teammates better. Complete, utter, BS IMHO. Jordan didn't start winning until he got teammates around him that could handle his constant verbal, mental, and even sometimes physical abuse (he punched Steve Kerr in the face during practice once).

This is all swept under the rug because Jordan won. Winning cures everything and silences all critics.

[stretch]

When did Kobe admit this? I smell BS.

An interview the other day on TV.


If anything is overblown in sports it's this whole notion of making your teammates better. Complete, utter, BS IMHO. Jordan didn't start winning until he got teammates around him that could handle his constant verbal, mental, and even sometimes physical abuse (he punched Steve Kerr in the face during practice once).

This is all swept under the rug because Jordan won. Winning cures everything and silences all critics.

i agree that you need better teammates to win, however Jordan had virtually the same core for several years before he won a title. everyone in and around the team said things changed when jordan learned to trust his teammates more and get them involved more early by getting them easy open shots to get their confidence rolling.

[DarkReign]

James'

[T Park]

I know no one gives a shit about my opinion but here it is.

I think when you say ones "prime" its the player at the peak of his game, can't improve anymore, absolutely is as good as he is gonna be. If you watch Lebron James, the things hes deficient in are things he can work on and improve in. So if that is the case, IMO, he has NOT reached his prime yet. I also believe he is a tad too young to have reached it as well. Time served playing in the NBA does change that however, due to him entering at 18 youth is still quite on his side and he hasn't suffered any bad injuries outside of a sprained ankle or sore knee that would debilitate him so he still has quite a bit of time to keep climbing further up the improvement ladder. Hes coming into his 6th NBA season and I think this question would be fair to ask at probably season 8.

[baseline bum]

Penny Hardaway agrees with you.

Shaq leaving town did more to damage Hardaway's career than anything else.

[JamStone]

obviously you missed that point, or you just chose to try to be an ignorant asshole as usual.


Obviously you don't know how to read.


From an individual skills and talent point of view, absolutely.

[monosylab1k]

Shaq leaving town did more to damage Hardaway's career than anything else.

True, that guy has lots of Kurt Cobain Syndrome surrounding his career. He was pretty good, not great, but after getting hurt people started playing "what if?" and turned him into Magic Jordan.

[stretch]

Obviously you don't know how to read.

skills and talent do not equal to greatness.

[JamStone]

And winning championships does. That's the comparison. That's what you left out.

Thank you for finally getting my point and your mistake.

[monosylab1k]

LeBron's gotta win multiple championships as the leader of his team to even step foot in the Jordan debate. 3 at the very least. 4+ and maybe there's a "better than Jordan" argument.

Until then he's right there with Kobe - not even close.

[stretch]

And winning championships does. That's the comparison. That's what you left out.

Thank you for finally getting my point and your mistake.

i didnt leave it out. i think it should be obvious you need to win championships. and i think lebron will lead his teams to multiple titles. i think its sorta implied you gotta win championships to attain that level of greatness. you just are trying to find ways to hate and be a douchebag, nothing more.

[stretch]

LeBron's gotta win multiple championships as the leader of his team to even step foot in the Jordan debate. 3 at the very least. 4+ and maybe there's a "better than Jordan" argument.

Until then he's right there with Kobe - not even close.

no one said he was. only when he develops his game fully and wins (which he will obviously do more of as his game develops)