Spot Number 8 - Top 50 Spurs

[timvp]

SpursTalk's Top 50 Spurs
1. Tim Duncan
2. David Robinson
3. George Gervin
4. Gregg Popovich
5. Angelo Drossos
6. Manu Ginobili
7. Tony Parker

------------------------------

To pass the time until the start of preseason, let's see how SpursTalk.com ranks the Top 50 Spurs. Those eligible for the list include all players, coaches and owners. I don't want to define "top" too narrowly, but I think the best way to do it would be to think of the list as a list of the 50 most influential people who have helped make the Spurs one of the most successful franchises in the history of sport.

For more information on what we are doing, check out this thread (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103061).

In this thread, we will vote for spot number eight. Please place your vote. If you will, also explain in this thread why you voted how you did.

Thanks.



P.S.

Poll options listed in alphabetical order. If you want to vote for someone not on the list, post in the thread and I'll add the person.

Voting will end 2AM CST Sunday morning. Please vote only once.

[timvp]

To me this is between Bowen, AJ, Elliott, Kenon and Silas.

Bowen has three championships and played a vital role in each title. He hasn't made an All-Star team but he has been named to the All-Defensive team in each of his seven seasons with the Spurs (including five consecutive first team selections). Obviously, he hasn't been much offensively but his clutchness in the playoffs (6 out of 7 playoffs he shot better than 40% from beyond the three-point line) shouldn't be forgotten. Overall, next to Kenon, Bowen might go down as the most underrated Spurs player of All-Time.

AJ is the franchise leader in assists. He was basically the player coach of the 1999 championship. He, along with David Robinson, are arguably the two most responsible for making the Spurs a no nonsense franchise in the mid-1990s. AJ was also the unquestioned leader of the Spurs for the better part of a decade. He wasn't a talented player but he played about as well as possible with the tools he was given.

Elliott was a two-time All-Star who was one of the most skilled players in franchise history. In the peak of his career, he probably didn't live all the way up to his potential -- with part of the blame going to injuries. However, he was a huge part of the 1999 championship team and hit the biggest shot in franchise history. Coming back from a kidney transplant was unspeakably heroic and his dedication to the Spurs since day 1 has definitely been apparent.

Larry Kenon is probably the best player left and his numbers give him a very good case. He averaged 20 and 10 over five years with the Spurs while making three All-Star games. Problem was he not only left on bad terms, he didn't have much of an impact on the overall franchise outside of his great numbers.

Silas had a great season that was probably better than any season in Spurs history not authored by Gervin, Robinson or Duncan. That season earned him an All-ABA first team award. In the ABA days, Silas was as good or better than Gervin. He single-handedly won an amazing amount of games in his first couple years with the Spurs. The drawback with Silas is he was robbed of much of his prime due to injury.

Right now, I have no idea which player I'm going to vote for. I'm leaning toward either Bowen or Silas but I'm not sure. I'm pretty confident in that I like Bowen over AJ and Silas over Kenon. That leaves Bowen, Elliott and Silas. Bowen vs. Elliott is really damn close. And whoever is ahead in that race is really close to Silas.

This is a close one . . .

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Bowen was as important to the success of the last 5 years as the rest of the Big Four. Gotta be Bowen, sorry Sean and AJ.

I will concede that I might be undervaluing the '99 championship a little here. BTW - anyone know where I can buy all 4 playoff series from '99 on DVD - I'd love to watch that right now! Actually, I'd like to buy every playoff series of the 4 championship seasons, but where from?

[duncan228]

Thanks for the breakdown timvp. This is a tough one, I'm going to take in everyone's thoughts before I decide.

[anakha]

This vote pretty much comes down to Bowen or Elliott for me.

While I can't deny Bowen's contributions to the Spurs, I can't help but feel that his overall value to the team is equal parts his own capability and Popovich's defense-first philosophy. That pushes me more in Elliott's direction with this vote.

That, and the Memorial Day Miracle, of course. :p:

[timtonymanu]

Elliott all the way! got us to the finals and our first title.

[baseline bum]

People who vote for Oberto and Del Negro deserve to be hung from their balls off the side of the Tower of Americas.

[kobyz]

Malik Rose also need to be in the discussion, he was a big part in 2 championships.
anyway my vote go for Sean Elliott!

[Brutalis]

Bruce Bowen.

I just got a sig card of his to start my Spurs collection. This guy gets no love or credit. We can go on all day about how Tim is the reason why we got rings, we'll sure he is. But without Bowen it would not have happened.

Day in and day out this guy is put on the opposing teams best scorer. He never gets a break. The way he shut down Billups in that 2005 Finals game is what lead to our pulling out that win. He is so unselfish, and just works his ass off. He is the best defensive player the Spurs will ever have. He has been robbed of the DPOY how many years now? It's sad and really upsetting.

Bowen has given us crucial corner 3s too. I mean crucial. Without that and his defense we are not at the pinnacle we are.

[samikeyp]

Bruce Bowen.

I just got a sig card of his to start my Spurs collection. This guy gets no love or credit. We can go on all day about how Tim is the reason why we got rings, we'll sure he is. But without Bowen it would not have happened.

Day in and day out this guy is put on the opposing teams best scorer. He never gets a break. The way he shut down Billups in that 2005 Finals game is what lead to our pulling out that win. He is so unselfish, and just works his ass off. He is the best defensive player the Spurs will ever have. He has been robbed of the DPOY how many years now? It's sad and really upsetting.

Bowen has given us crucial corner 3s too. I mean crucial. Without that and his defense we are not at the pinnacle we are.

It did in 1999. ;)

[Brutalis]

It did in 1999. ;)

David Robinson.

I meant 03-05-07.

[xmas1997]

Sean should be much higher rated than he is at the possible 8 spot.
It's insulting to put him this low.

[samikeyp]

David Robinson.

I meant 03-05-07.

Suuuuure you did. :lol

(I keed, I keed)

[remingtonbo2001]

We can go on all day about how Tim is the reason why we got rings, we'll sure he is. But without Bowen it would not have happened.

Bowen has given us crucial corner 3s too. I mean crucial. Without that and his defense we are not at the pinnacle we are.

Sean hit the most crucuial corner 3 in Spurs history. If the Spurs had not won in 1999, Tim might have up and left town. 1999 comes before 2003, 2005 & 2007


Sean should be much higher rated than he is at the possible 8 spot.
It's insulting to put him this low.

It is insulting. What's even more insulting is that some are under the opinion that Bowen is more deserving of being in the top 10 of the greatest Spurs than Sean Elliott.

The man came back from a kidney transplant. It would be enough for many of us just to sustain life after a kidney transplant. However, this man came back and was still able to perform at the highest level.

:toast Here's to Elliott in a landslide!

[Spurs Brazil]

I chose Bruce over Elliott.

I think Sean was a better player but Bruce spend more years playing in a high level and playing much more games. Bruce only missed 25 games in his 1st season with the Spurs due injury.

During his 7 season with the Spurs he always had to go after the best perimeter guy of other teams and he did a fantastic job. Fantastic D and a bunch o clutch shots, my favorite is the one in 2007 run, game at Phoenix.

[Drom John]

Third vote for Silas. And looks like I get to vote for him a couple of times more. As with Ginobli, I'd be voting for Parker one slot lower. So I agree with the crowd so far, but for Silas.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Homerism aside, it could be argued that Bowen has been more instrumental to the Spurs defensive minded style of bball than even Manu or Tony. With that in mind, I don't see how people can pick Sean over him. Just take into account the number of championships where Bowen has left his mark.

Again, bullshit aside, everyone is complaining about Manu this and Tony that, while Bowen seems to always get the short end of the stick in terms of popularity. Bowen should be winning this easily in my opinion.

[MajorMike]

Elliott is the all-time franchise leader in three-point field goals made (563) and attempted (1,485). He is also the only player in Spurs history to rank among the franchise's top ten in six different statistical categories: games played (third, 669), points (fourth, 9,659), rebounds (sixth, 2,941), assists (seventh, 1,700), steals (eighth, 522), and blocks (ninth, 257).

[urunobili]

Bruuuuuuuuuuce

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I'm really torn between James Silas or Sean Elliott. Damn it...

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Sean. For the third time.

[exstatic]

Sean should be much higher rated than he is at the possible 8 spot.
It's insulting to put him this low.

If it were just players, I would agree with you, but front office people are in this thing. If he were selected in this spot, he would be the sixth player, and there would be one HOF (Gervin), 2 sure fire HOF(Tim, Dave), and Manu's probable combined NBA/FIBA/Euroleague resume HOF selction in the five spots above him. No shame in that.

[Kona]

Sean Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_.

[Brutalis]

Homerism aside, it could be argued that Bowen has been more instrumental to the Spurs defensive minded style of bball than even Manu or Tony. With that in mind, I don't see how people can pick Sean over him. Just take into account the number of championships where Bowen has left his mark.

Again, bullshit aside, everyone is complaining about Manu this and Tony that, while Bowen seems to always get the short end of the stick in terms of popularity. Bowen should be winning this easily in my opinion.

I agree. Sean was such a scorer for us because we didn't have any. It was D-Rob and what else? Never much more than role players. Bruce deserves this.

[Brutalis]

Sean hit the most crucuial corner 3 in Spurs history. If the Spurs had not won in 1999, Tim might have up and left town. 1999 comes before 2003, 2005 & 2007

Horry hit the most crucial 3 in Spurs history. I don't think it's fair to break it down into "corner" or "wing" or "top" positions. Just that you make it.

I'd take BB over Sean in the corner any day. :stirpot:

[SenorSpur]

To me this is between Bowen, AJ, Elliott, Kenon and Silas.

Silas had a great season that was probably better than any season in Spurs history not authored by Gervin, Robinson or Duncan. That season earned him an All-ABA first team award. In the ABA days, Silas was as good or better than Gervin. He single-handedly won an amazing amount of games in his first couple years with the Spurs. The drawback with Silas is he was robbed of much of his prime due to injury.

Right now, I have no idea which player I'm going to vote for. I'm leaning toward either Bowen or Silas but I'm not sure. I'm pretty confident in that I like Bowen over AJ and Silas over Kenon. That leaves Bowen, Elliott and Silas. Bowen vs. Elliott is really damn close. And whoever is ahead in that race is really close to Silas.

This is a close one . . .

Love the love for Silas. One of my all-time favorite Spurs. I just don't thnk this guy gets enough credit and recognition for being the great clutch player that he was for this franchise. What a shame it is that most NBA observers and fans never got to witness his true greatness following that devastating knee injury that kept him out for the better part of two full seasons ('77 & '78). By the time he played in the post-merger NBA, he was merely shell of his former self.

He gets my vote here.

[exstatic]

Horry hit the most crucial 3 in Spurs history. I don't think it's fair to break it down into "corner" or "wing" or "top" positions. Just that you make it.

Without Sean's shot, we might not win in 99, Tim may well have left in 2000, and there IS no Horry shot.

[remingtonbo2001]

Without Sean's shot, we might not win in 99, Tim may well have left in 2000, and there IS no Horry shot.

Precisely.

[DynastyBuilder]

Red McCombs anyone

[exstatic]

Red McCombs anyone

Although Red gets big ups for being the first man to actually FIRE Larry Brown, I don't think he was a franchise changing owner.

[Bruno]

Silas has won 1 playoff series with SA. The same thing is true for Kenon.
They have for them some great statical seasons but teams scored a gazillion of points during these years.

To me, it's either Bowen or Elliott.

[Dex]

I've already given my big Sean Elliott rant, and I'll save Bruce's for when he gets the 9 spot. :smokin

"TA-CO CA-BA-NA!"

[century]

Robert Horry. For his hit on Steve Nash. Well done. Spurs got a new tougher image and I like it.

[Spurminator]

Elliott is a former All Star, hit IMO the biggest shot in Spurs history, and has been a staple of Spurs broadcasting since retirement. I'm a Bruce homer through and through but I have to vote for Sean here.

[Admiral]

I voted for Peter Holt. After reading the responses and checking the votes, I realize that I was the first.

It was difficult to choose Holt over some excellent Spurs like Elliott, Bowen, Silas, and AJ. However, since Manu and Parker are already #6 and 7, respectively, I find it difficult not to vote for Holt.

Consider the fact that he invested in the Spurs in 1993, during an uncertain time in the franchise's development. We had been a good team, but not quite made it where we wanted to be. There were rumors that the team would be moved, but Holt wanted to keep it in San Antonio. He also believed strongly in building a team that gave back to the community and made a difference off the court as well as on it. He has played a pivotal role in building a team that the city can rally around and be proud of.

Equally as important, Holt has been influential in putting the pieces in place for the dynasty we have built. I do not know specifics, but I am sure he was either the reason or at the very least a big reason why Pop and his staff were hired. He has been very efficient in his management style, and when necessary he has been one of few owners to go over the luxury tax threshold to sign players we need. He is involved in the organization, but not too much. In short, he is an excellent owner. Any list of the most influential people in franchise history has to include him near the top, doesn't it?

[timvp]

Sean should be much higher rated than he is at the possible 8 spot.
It's insulting to put him this low.?

This is the highest I'd put Elliott. He's wasn't better than Ginobili or Parker and he certainly shouldn't have cracked the top five. Eight is extremely fair for Elliott.

[possessed]

Sean is one of my all time faves. Gotta go with him.

[manufor3]

sean elliott

[Biggems]

honestly this list is a complete piece of crap.........you can tell most of the voters dont even have a pube on their nutsack.......are there any other voters in here, besides me, that can even remember games prior to Alvin Robertson? Are there any voters in here who actually know and understand the history of our team?

Tony Parker and Manu do not deserve to be in the top 5 in Spurs history (I can accept them being in the top 10), if we are including non-players. Drossos, McCombs, Pop, and Bass all deserve to be in the Top 10. Add to that Duncan, DRob, and Gervin and there is 7 out of the first 10 people in Spurs History.

Oh well, I guess this is the same kind of voting that gave us Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton......

[baseline bum]

McCombs? The same McCombs who was about to trade Robinson for Ewing to get out of David's contract?

[Spurminator]

Tony Parker and Manu do not deserve to be in the top 5 in Spurs history

Um, they weren't voted top 5.

[Biggems]

Um, they weren't voted top 5.

I just noticed that....thank you for the correction.....i glanced before....ive been away for a few days.

[exstatic]

McCombs? The same McCombs who was about to trade Robinson for Ewing to get out of David's contract?

+1 Red didn't do much but caretake on his watch. Bass got owned on more than a few deals. He was organizationally loyal, but no great shakes as a GM. I think we have all of the front office types that deserve to be in the Top 10 already. The others may fall in later.

[FromWayDowntown]

This one, to me, comes down to Silas and Elliott and I went with Elliott because he was a 2-time All-Star, because he played on two really good but fatally flawed teams that with a small tweak could have won titles, because his return from Detroit (not by itself, necessarily) ushered in a long stretch of true title contention for the Spurs, because he took the defensive challenge on the wing for years, because he played with that kidney condition, and because he led the charge publicly to keep the Spurs in San Antonio as the Spurs face of the Saddles and Spurs campaign.

And, oh yeah, he hit this one shot one time.

[anakha]

Tony Parker and Manu do not deserve to be in the top 5 in Spurs history (I can accept them being in the top 10), if we are including non-players.


SpursTalk's Top 50 Spurs
1. Tim Duncan
2. David Robinson
3. George Gervin
4. Gregg Popovich
5. Angelo Drossos
6. Manu Ginobili
7. Tony Parker



:huh

EDIT: Ah, Spurminator already beat me to the punch here. :p:

[Spurtacus]

I went with Bowen here...barely over Elliott.

[Admiral]

The fact that Manu and Parker are 6 and 7, respectively, pretty much ruins any credibility this poll had. Based on that, perhaps we will see the entire starting five from 2007-2008 make the top 10.

[Kori Ellis]

The fact that Manu and Parker are 6 and 7, respectively, pretty much ruins any credibility this poll had. Based on that, perhaps we will see the entire starting five from 2007-2008 make the top 10.

People were actually voting for Manu and Tony in the first spot. :lol

[Admiral]

People were actually voting for Manu and Tony in the first spot. :lol

That is so true! :lol

[timvp]

Consider the fact that he invested in the Spurs in 1993, during an uncertain time in the franchise's development. We had been a good team, but not quite made it where we wanted to be. There were rumors that the team would be moved, but Holt wanted to keep it in San Antonio.Holt originally invested in 1993 but didn't become the chairman until around 1998, IIRC. Holt got control of the team from local investors, so it wasn't really his decision at the time concerning whether or not the Spurs were going to leave. The Spurs had already been saved from outside investors.


He also believed strongly in building a team that gave back to the community and made a difference off the court as well as on it. He has played a pivotal role in building a team that the city can rally around and be proud of.He has? That foundation of giving back to the community was already in place by the time he became owner. That was mostly instituted by people such as David Robinson, Avery Johnson and Sean Elliott. Holt has been somewhat active in the community but he basically followed the lead of those who came before him.


Equally as important, Holt has been influential in putting the pieces in place for the dynasty we have built. I do not know specifics, but I am sure he was either the reason or at the very least a big reason why Pop and his staff were hired.Pop was hired by Robert McDermott. It was 100% a McDermott move. Pop then was given full power and was responsible for hiring just about everyone else in the organization. I'm not aware of Holt making any changes in the organization until a few months ago.


He has been very efficient in his management style, and when necessary he has been one of few owners to go over the luxury tax threshold to sign players we need. He is involved in the organization, but not too much.This is true. His hands-off style has been very helpful throughout the years. He has stayed out of Pop's way and has never gotten into a power struggle.

But Holt even said that even in 1999, he had no idea of the rules of basketball. Up until about 2005, Holt wasn't much more than the token figurehead of the ownership group. He's done the "staying out of the way" thing rather well but I'm not so sure he could have done anything even if he wanted to since he knew nothing about basketball.


In short, he is an excellent owner. Any list of the most influential people in franchise history has to include him near the top, doesn't it?Not near the top but somewhere before 20 should be fair. He hasn't really done anything in his ownership tenure. While that may seem like an insult, it is actually his strength as an owner.

[timvp]

The fact that Manu and Parker are 6 and 7, respectively, pretty much ruins any credibility this poll had. Based on that, perhaps we will see the entire starting five from 2007-2008 make the top 10.Who did you want in the top seven? I think the top seven is a no-brainer and I 100% agree with that group. Everyone else is clearly a step down.

[timvp]

I ended up voting for Elliott. I think he and Bowen are basically tied but I give Elliott the edge due to his intangibles. But I do think Bowen would pass Elliott with another season where he plays at a high level.

[T Park]

I think Holt's push to get the new arena to keep the Spurs viable helps his arguement.

[rAm]

Sean. For the third time.

Same!

[angel_luv]

Aw man! Missed out on voting.