Greatest Athlete according to Phil Jackson. Not MJ or KB....it's

[LakeShow]

The greatest athlete according to Jackson (http://lakers.freedomblogging.com/2008/08/26/the-greatest-athlete-according-to-jackson/)

August 26th, 2008, 7:06 am · 4 Comments (http://lakers.freedomblogging.com/2008/08/26/the-greatest-athlete-according-to-jackson/#comments) · posted by JANIS CARR, OCREGISTER.COM

http://lakers.freedomblogging.com/files/2008/08/dennis-rodman.jpg (http://lakers.freedomblogging.com/2008/08/26/the-greatest-athlete-according-to-jackson/dennis-rodman/)After receiving an honorary doctor of letters degree from his alma mater, University of North Dakota, Lakers coach Phil Jackson touched upon a range of subjects from the school’s nickname to the greatest athlete he has ever coached.
And it wasn’t Michael Jordan.
Or Kobe Bryant.
Or Shaquille O’Neal.
Not Karl Malone, Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Scottie Pippen, Steve Kerr, Bill Cartwright or Smush Parker (OK, so he might not belong).
No, the player Jackson called the greatest that he has coached is that wedding dress aficionado and Newport Beach police’s favorite basketball bad boy, Dennis Rodman.
That’s right. No need to rub your eyes.
“He could probably play a 48-minute game and play the 48th minute stronger than the first minute of the game,” Jackson told the crowd at UND. “He was that terrific an athlete.”
Jackson credited Madonna for helping Rodman overcome his “shy” personality.
“Madonna saw what was in there and wanted him . . . to do what she does: be outrageous, and kind of talked him into opening up his character,” Jackson said. “And Dennis didn’t know how many ways he could open up his character.”

[stretch]

oh yea, i think a lot of people forget that he was a freak of nature. he just wasnt a huge scorer, so his athleticism wasnt highlighted quite as much.

[LakeShow]

Rodman: All-time athlete or wacko freak?
Former professional basketball player Dennis Rodman poses in this undated publicity photograph, with lingerie models promoting his appearance at Lingerie Bowl III. Rodman was be part of a celebrity-studded halftime sports &entertainment extravaganza on Sunday February 5, 2006. The event will also feature actresses and models Jenny McCarthy and Cindy Margolis. Horizon Productions, REUTERS
http://images.ocregister.com/newsimages/2008/08/26/new.large.jpghttp://images.ocregister.com/ocregister/images/next_b.gif (http://www.ocregister.com/slideshow/see-phil-rodman-2136747?pos=1)

[JamStone]

I thought he was going to say Chad Johnson.

[BacktoBasics]

Easily the most underrated player in all of professional sports history. Dude should have been an all-star year in and year out and definitely deserves to be in the HOF.

[baseline bum]

Easily the most underrated player in all of professional sports history. Dude should have been an all-star year in and year out and definitely deserves to be in the HOF.

Especially after the way he tanked the 95 WCF and cost the Spurs a championship.

[stretch]

Especially after the way he tanked the 95 WCF and cost the Spurs a championship.

they werent going to win regardless.

[IronMexican]

they werent going to win regardless.

[JamStone]

they werent going to win regardless.

Sho' nuff

[balli]

I've always said, if I could build a team from all the players throughout history, Rodman would be an automatic pick.

[baseline bum]

^ Which is why you're not a GM.

[stretch]

I've always said, if I could build a team from all the players throughout history, Rodman would be an automatic pick.

oh absolutely. i have always believed that he has the most unique skill-set ever. there are plenty of great slashers, great shooters, great post-up players, but no player has ever come remotely close to matching his defense, hustling, rebounding abilities. a lot of people think it doesnt take much skill or talent to do those things well, but it really does. requires significant athletic ability to defend players who are bigger, faster, and stronger than you, as well as snagging rebounds away from them. requires great judgement, vision and timing to get the rebounds before other people and to stick players like glue. requires incredible amounts of stamina, will, and determination to never give up and play hard all game long.

[stretch]

^ Which is why you're not a GM.

you are selling rodman awfully short. your blind homerism for the spurs must have something do with that.

[Tully365]

it still amazes me to think that a 6'7" undersized power forward outrebounded every player in the NBA for nearly a decade. That's a pretty unbelievable accomplishment.

[balli]

^ Which is why you're not a GM.

Do yourself a favor and go check out Rodman's stat totals by season. Throw in everything Stretch said (really consider the intangibility stuff) and then revise your views.

And BTW, the reason the Utah Jazz lost to the Bulls in 97' 98' isn't because we were afraid of Michael. No, it's because Dennis Rodman got into Malone's head like a psychologist and completely owned him.

Another Rodman story I heard once involved the Pistons, after a game an un-named Piston went to Chuck Daly and asked why he wasn't getting more playing time and how he could get more. Daly stood up and told the player to follow him into the team's training room. "That's how you get more playing time," Daly said before walking back to his office. In the corner Dennis Rodman was on an exercise bike riding as hard as he possibly could. And again, this was following a freshly completed NBA game. That says it all about Rodman right there.

[baseline bum]

you are selling rodman awfully short. your blind homerism for the spurs must have something do with that.

- Rodman was traded from Detroit because he was a nut who they got sick of dealing with.

- Rodman was traded from San Antonio because he flat out quit on the team in the 95 WCF.

- Rodman was cut from the Lakers because he was too much of an ass in the locker room. Don't give me the washed up excuse either, because he played well when he wanted to (check his stats).

That's three championship contenders that had to give up on him because he had his head shoved so far up his ass.

I remember an interview with Phil Jackson in the 99 Finals right after he took over as the Lakers coach where he specifically said he didn't want Rodman back, but that he'd welcome Pippen or Jordan.

I don't get it when people say they'd want Rodman. It's like saying you'd want Michael Ray Richardson because he was such an explosive scorer for 4-5 years while ignoring how he destroyed his career when he couldn't kick the blow.

[stretch]

- Rodman was traded from Detroit because he was a nut who they got sick of dealing with.

- Rodman was traded from San Antonio because he flat out quit on the team in the 95 WCF.

- Rodman was cut from the Lakers because he was too much of an ass in the locker room. Don't give me the washed up excuse either, because he played well when he wanted to (check his stats).

That's three championship contenders that had to give up on him because he had his head shoved so far up his ass.

I remember an interview with Phil Jackson in the 99 Finals right after he took over as the Lakers coach where he specifically said he didn't want Rodman back, but that he'd welcome Pippen or Jordan.

I don't get it when people say they'd want Rodman. It's like saying you'd want Michael Ray Richardson because he was such an explosive scorer for 4-5 years while ignoring how he destroyed his career when he couldn't kick the blow.

he also won 5 championships.

im not saying he was a great lockerroom guy, but his contributions on the court are unmatchable by any player in NBA history.

[stretch]

lol baseline bum is one butthurt mofo

should we cue in some lame shots about the Mavericks?

[baseline bum]

Do yourself a favor and go check out Rodman's stat totals by season. Throw in everything Stretch said (really consider the intangibility stuff) and then revise your views.


Showing up and playing is a pretty important intangible to me.



And BTW, the reason the Utah Jazz lost to the Bulls in 97' 98' isn't because we were afraid of Michael. No, it's because Dennis Rodman got into Malone's head like a psychologist and completely owned him.


Karl Malone got owned in every playoff series but one (04 WCSF) when he went against a decent PF. Brian Grant held him to 8 points in elimination games in back to back years, which is owning Malone a lot worse than Rodman did. Shawn Kemp owned him in the 96 WCF. Malone was never a big game player.




Another Rodman story I heard once involved the Pistons, after a game an un-named Piston went to Chuck Daly and asked why he wasn't getting more playing time and how he could get more. Daly stood up and told the player to follow him into the team's training room. "That's how you get more playing time," Daly said before walking back to his office. In the corner Dennis Rodman was on an exercise bike riding as hard as he possibly could. And again, this was following a freshly completed NBA game. That says it all about Rodman right there.

That doesn't say it all about Rodman, and it's ridiculous that anyone can look past his checkered performances in Detroit, SA, LA, and Dallas and completely ignore them.

[baseline bum]

he also won 5 championships.

im not saying he was a great lockerroom guy, but his contributions on the court are unmatchable by any player in NBA history.

Steve Kerr won 5 titles too.

[baseline bum]

lol baseline bum is one butthurt mofo

should we cue in some lame shots about the Mavericks?

Dude, it's fact that Rodman sabotaged contending teams. If you could guarantee me i'd get the Rodman from the late 80s I'd completely agree about wanting to build my team around him, as he was fast, smart, athletic, a monster both on the glass and in contesting shots, and someone who always ran the floor in transition. That's not the whole story on him though, and it's ridiculous when people act like it is.

[JamStone]

Several incidents fucked up Dennis Rodman as a person, and it was before Madonna.

This is rumor, but before Rodman became an emotional nut after getting involved with Madonna, he was a suicidal wreck because of his now ex-wife. Story is that he found her fucking another Pistons player. Allegedly, it was Vinnie Johnson. So, not only was the woman he loved and shared a child with cheating on him, but it was with one of his teammates. Shit like this happens to a lot of people, but as others have, Rodman didn't handle it well. At some point soon after, Chuck Daly found Rodman in his car outside the Palace garage with a handgun in his mouth. The Pistons actually wanted to trade Dennis before they did but worried he'd hurt himself, or worse, someone else. Daly didn't want Dennis in someone else's care yet.

I don't have first hand knowledge of any of that. Like I said, it's rumored legend. But, I tend to believe there's a lot of truth in it, and it's in part what transformed Dennis Rodman, the person.

All that said, that has nothing to do with his skill and talent as a basketball player. Off the court issues aside, take nothing away from his determination and approach to basketball as a competitor and player.

[baseline bum]

All that said, that has nothing to do with his skill and talent as a basketball player. Off the court issues aside, take nothing away from his determination and approach to basketball as a competitor and player.

Sadly it did, because his off-court issues ruined his on-court performance. In Chicago he was lucky to be around two really strong minds like Phil Jackson and Jordan who kept him from going off the deep end, but they were tired of him too by the end of 98.

[JamStone]

The won three titles with him being a huge part of their success defensively.

Tired or not, he helped them win.

[baseline bum]

The won three titles with him being a huge part of their success defensively.

Tired or not, he helped them win.

You could say the same for Horace Grant. He actually clinched a title for them too when he blocked KJ's game-winner in '93.

[JamStone]

Weren't the Bulls tired of Michael, Phil, and Scottie by 1998 too?

[baseline bum]

Weren't the Bulls tired of Michael, Phil, and Scottie by 1998 too?

Only the idiot Jerry Krause.

[timvp]

Rodman on the Pistons before he turned emo was a pretty damn good player. After he turned emo, the only person who could control him was MJ. The rest of the time all Rodman did was try to get as many rebounds as possible ... even if it meant not guarding his man or not being in the right spot offensively.

[Findog]

Dude, it's fact that Rodman sabotaged contending teams.

Those Spurs teams were never contenders.


If you could guarantee me i'd get the Rodman from the late 80s I'd completely agree about wanting to build my team around him, as he was fast, smart, athletic, a monster both on the glass and in contesting shots, and someone who always ran the floor in transition. That's not the whole story on him though, and it's ridiculous when people act like it is.

I thought the whole story on his San Antonio tenure is that he was promised a contract extension with one ownership group, the team was sold, and the new owners did not feel beholden to honor any agreements he might have had with the previous group. That and he butted heads with Robinson is what prompted him to quit on the Spurs.

[stretch]

Those Spurs teams were never contenders.


i was thinking the same thing. and actually all the TRUE contenders he was on (Pistons/Bulls) won multiple titles, with him being a MAJOR part of their success.

[Findog]

i was thinking the same thing. and actually all the TRUE contenders he was on (Pistons/Bulls) won multiple titles, with him being a MAJOR part of their success.

BB's right, though, that at that point in his career, only Jordan could keep him in line. The Pistons traded him because he was becoming a problem.

[baseline bum]

You're just full of stupid excuses.


1)
The 95 Spurs weren't contenders? WTF kind of stupid logic is that? They won 62 games, were the #1 seed, and handled the first two rounds pretty easily. Two of their four losses to Houston came down to the last seconds, and they would have soundly beaten the Magic like they always did back then. Really convenient for your argument to only call a team a contender after it wins the title. You must be fucking 10 years old to not remember the Spurs were the favorites to win the title that year... and a Laker team with Shaq, Kobe, and Rice wasn't a contender? They won 67 games the next year and a title.

2) WGAF if Robinson and Rodman butted heads? Pippen and Jordan hated each other. Jordan beat Horace Grant down in a practice, and slapped Steve Kerr. Kareem and Magic didn't like each other. Shaq and Kobe wanted to kill each other. Yet, they all figured out how to play together, and never decided to just quit on their team in the championship series. You can't call Rodman's act anything but being an unprofessional jackass in the 95 WCF.

[balli]

Whatever. I call the Spurs unprofessional. Rodman had a monetary deal with his employer that was broken when new ownership came in. And then he probably had D-Rob in his ear like, "Golly Dennis, just suck it up for the team." I don't blame him at all- he said "fuck that" to the whole situation and went to a better employer, who payed him right, and he won rings for them instead. If it were my career, in any field, I'd have done the same thing; quit and gone where the money and respect was in line with my talents. The Spurs have nobody to blame but themselves.

[baseline bum]

Whatever. Rodman had a monetary deal with his employer that was broken when new ownership came in. And then he probably had D-Rob in his ear like, "Golly Dennis, just suck it up for the team." I don't blame him at all- he said "fuck that" to the whole situation and went to a better employer, who payed him right, and he won rings for them instead. If it were my career, in any field, I'd have done the same thing; quit and gone where the money and respect was in line with my talents. The Spurs have nobody to blame but themselves.

Except he was under contract. Another dumbfuck excuse. You're really reaching now.

[baseline bum]

So what was the excuse when Shaq begged Laker management to bring him in to be the "thug" his team needed once they got their "shooter" (Rice) ?

[Findog]

WGAF if Robinson and Rodman butted heads? Pippen and Jordan hated each other. Jordan beat Horace Grant down in a practice, and slapped Steve Kerr. Kareem and Magic didn't like each other. Shaq and Kobe wanted to kill each other. Yet, they all figured out how to play together, and never decided to just quit on their team in the championship series. You can't call Rodman's act anything but being an unprofessional jackass in the 95 WCF.

I think the difference is that those guys you listed might not have liked each other as human beings, but they accepted each other as teammates and backed each other up on the floor. I don't think David Robinson ever treated Dennis Rodman with professional courtesy and respect or accepted him as a teammate. Robinson couldn't put aside his personal distaste for Rodman and let that dictate the way he treated him. The Spurs and Robinson handled him the exact opposite of how you should deal with a talented headcase. Robinson never treated Rodman with respect from the get-go. Should it be a surprise that Rodman handled that snub in a petulant manner?

Robinson always struck me as kind of a d-bag, see his comments regarding Steve Nash/Nick Van Exel and the war in 2003. How'd that stellar bit of political analysis work out for you, Admiral?

[balli]

I guess it's just a difference of opinion. And this thread isn't really about whether or not he was a good guy, it's about Phil Jackson calling him the best athlete he's coached. Even if I disagreed with his treatment of the Spurs, which I don't, who cares? He overwhelmingly won rings for many more teams than he sabotaged (which in his prime was only poor little SA).

Did his character compromise his talent to some degree? Yes, I'll concede that. Doesn't matter though; his talent & accomplishments speak for themselves and even if his behavior maybe lowered the ceiling of his potential, it didn't lower it to the point that he wasn't still an amazingly accomplished and unique player.

[baseline bum]

I think the difference is that those guys you listed might not have liked each other as human beings, but they accepted each other as teammates and backed each other up on the floor. I don't think David Robinson ever treated Dennis Rodman with professional courtesy and respect or accepted him as a teammate. Robinson couldn't put aside his personal distaste for Rodman and let that dictate the way he treated him. The Spurs and Robinson handled him the exact opposite of how you should deal with a talented headcase. Robinson never treated Rodman with respect from the get-go. Should it be a surprise that Rodman handled that snub in a petulant manner?


Now you're just making shit up.



Robinson always struck me as kind of a d-bag, see his comments regarding Steve Nash/Nick Van Exel and the war in 2003. How'd that stellar bit of political analysis work out for you, Admiral?

David was full of shit on that. Doesn't effect what he did on the floor.

[stretch]

You're just full of stupid excuses.


1)
The 95 Spurs weren't contenders? WTF kind of stupid logic is that? They won 62 games, were the #1 seed, and handled the first two rounds pretty easily. Two of their four losses to Houston came down to the last seconds, and they would have soundly beaten the Magic like they always did back then. Really convenient for your argument to only call a team a contender after it wins the title. You must be fucking 10 years old to not remember the Spurs were the favorites to win the title that year... and a Laker team with Shaq, Kobe, and Rice wasn't a contender? They won 67 games the next year and a title.

2) WGAF if Robinson and Rodman butted heads? Pippen and Jordan hated each other. Jordan beat Horace Grant down in a practice, and slapped Steve Kerr. Kareem and Magic didn't like each other. Shaq and Kobe wanted to kill each other. Yet, they all figured out how to play together, and never decided to just quit on their team in the championship series. You can't call Rodman's act anything but being an unprofessional jackass in the 95 WCF.

lol,bitter

[baseline bum]

I guess it's just a difference of opinion. And this thread isn't really about whether or not he was a good guy, it's about Phil Jackson calling him the best athlete he's coached. Even if I disagreed with his treatment of the Spurs, which I don't, who cares? He overwhelmingly won rings for many more teams than he sabotaged (which in his prime was only poor little SA).


He was a role player on the Bulls. Him quitting on the Spurs is pretty significant, since it was the only time in his career that he was considered one of his team's franchise players. There was no question he was the #2 man on that team.

Agreeing with his quitting on the team is fucking stupid. You don't like the team? Fine? Force a trade. Go sign somewhere else in the offseason. You don't quit on them after they've already paid you.



Did his character compromise his talent to some degree? Yes, I'll concede that. Doesn't matter though; his talent & accomplishments speak for themselves and even if his behavior maybe lowered the ceiling of his potential, it didn't lower it to the point that he wasn't still an amazingly accomplished and unique player.

He was an amazing player in his early years in Detroit, and a solid starter for the Bulls. Like timvp said, he was a stat-padder after those first 4-5 seasons on the Pistons. His attitude on the court speaks for itself also. Bill Russell he is not.

[baseline bum]

lol,bitter

Is that your best answer? Dodge the question just like the Jizz fan?

[stretch]

Is that your best answer? Dodge the question just like the Jizz fan?

no i just dont feel like arguing with someone who is simply bitter, as opposed to someone who actually has a legit argument.

[baseline bum]

no i just dont feel like arguing with someone who is simply bitter, as opposed to someone who actually has a legit argument.

Arguing that the 95 Spurs, the title favorites, were a championship contender isn't a legit argument? Arguing that players should put aside personal dislikes on the floor isn't sound? Sounds more like you don't want to argue an indefensible position.

[stretch]

Arguing that the 95 Spurs, the title favorites, were a championship contender isn't a legit argument? Arguing that players should put aside personal dislikes on the floor isn't sound? Sounds more like you don't want to argue an indefensible position.

lol thats not what i was arguing douchenozzle. your ridiculous hatred and bias against rodman is what i was arguing more, but its not really worth my time.

[baseline bum]

lol thats not what i was arguing douchenozzle. your ridiculous hatred and bias against rodman is what i was arguing more, but its not really worth my time.

bullshit


i was thinking the same thing. and actually all the TRUE contenders he was on (Pistons/Bulls) won multiple titles, with him being a MAJOR part of their success.

[stretch]

bullshit

i really wasnt arguing it. it was a statement. but more so to get under your skin than anything. fact is, he was a major part of 5 championship teams, and without him the spurs dont win 62 games in 1995. you can say what you want, but the man was a unique player, and there has never been a player quite like him, and may never be.

[baseline bum]

i really wasnt arguing it. it was a statement. but more so to get under your skin than anything. fact is, he was a major part of 5 championship teams, and without him the spurs dont win 62 games in 1995. you can say what you want, but the man was a unique player, and there has never been a player quite like him, and may never be.

Bill Russell. Except he was a winner.

[LakeShow]

Rodman on the Pistons before he turned emo was a pretty damn good player. After he turned emo, the only person who could control him was MJ. The rest of the time all Rodman did was try to get as many rebounds as possible ... even if it meant not guarding his man or not being in the right spot offensively.

Wrong!

Jack Haley was. :lol

Seriously, Mike never controlled Rodman. Mike couldn't stand the fact that Rodman would dress up in public and he would say so publicly. Didn't stop Rodman from doing it. MJ didn't stop him from acting on the court. Rodman continually had his moments on the court like he always did. I wouldn't even say that MJ taught him to want to win. He already had that desire. A big difference in my opinion was Phil. He loved Rodmans game and he let him do his thing as long as he brought his game every night. Rodman used to be out all night and play the game of his life the next day. His team mates were pissed with his antics but Phil loved what he brought to the court. Rodman could dominate a game without scoring a point.

Maybe it was more of a combination of Phil, MJ, Jack, Harp, Pippen, etc. Maybe it was like Hillary said, It took a village to control Rodman. :lol

[angelbelow]

hes not nicknamed the worm for no reason

[Fabbs]

Rodman on the Pistons before he turned emo was a pretty damn good player. After he turned emo, the only person who could control him was MJ. The rest of the time all Rodman did was try to get as many rebounds as possible ... even if it meant not guarding his man or not being in the right spot offensively.
Exactly.
Barkley got pissed off (and probably jealous) of all the media Rodman was getting so decided to pull a Rodman and do nothing but rebound one game.
It might have been this game, i can't remember".
I think Chuck's records that game still stand in two catagories:
Most offensive rebounds, one half
13-Charles Barkley, Philadelphia vs. New York, March 4, 1987

Most offensive rebounds, one quarter
11-Charles Barkley, Philadelphia vs. New York, March 4, 1987

[Brutalis]

A retarded man, Phil Jackson is.

[stretch]

Except he was a winner.

So was Rodman. In a MUCH more competitive, physical, athletic, skilled, and talented era of basketball. Russell over time has become overrated player of all-time. Stick him in todays era, and there is no way he gets his dick sucked like he does right now.

[stretch]

Rodman could dominate a game without scoring a point.

and THAT right there is what makes him special. and the fact that he could do it in pretty much EVERY way that doesnt involve scoring. we have lots of rebounding specialists, defensive specialists, energy/hustling specialists, etc... but Rodman is ALL of those things combined.

and i do agree with your point about Phil. while i think he is a very overrated strategist, I think what makes him a great coach is a skill that most unsuccessful (and even many successful) coaches lack... people skills. he knows how to deal with players very well, and is able to get in their heads in a strangely respectful way that players such as Jordan couldn't even describe, and they cant help but like the guy.

[baseline bum]

So was Rodman. In a MUCH more competitive, physical, athletic, skilled, and talented era of basketball. Russell over time has become overrated player of all-time. Stick him in todays era, and there is no way he gets his dick sucked like he does right now.

Rodman was a loser who played on a winning team in Chicago. Winners don't quit on their teams.

[baseline bum]

and THAT right there is what makes him special. and the fact that he could do it in pretty much EVERY way that doesnt involve scoring. we have lots of rebounding specialists, defensive specialists, energy/hustling specialists, etc... but Rodman is ALL of those things combined.

and i do agree with your point about Phil. while i think he is a very overrated strategist, I think what makes him a great coach is a skill that most unsuccessful (and even many successful) coaches lack... people skills. he knows how to deal with players very well, and is able to get in their heads in a strangely respectful way that players such as Jordan couldn't even describe, and they cant help but like the guy.

Rodman was all of those things combined his first few years in Detroit. After that, he became a stat whore for rebounds, and did pretty much nothing else.

[stretch]

Rodman was a loser who played on a winning team in Chicago. Winners don't quit on their teams.

5 rings = winner.

[stretch]

Rodman was all of those things combined his first few years in Detroit. After that, he became a stat whore for rebounds, and did pretty much nothing else.

lol, bitter

[baseline bum]

5 rings = winner.

Steve Kerr has 5 rings too as a role player.

[stretch]

Steve Kerr has 5 rings too as a role player.

therefore he was a winner, since he was consistently part of a winning team.

:wow

[Supergirl]

Well, I totally agree Dennis Rodman was freakishly athletic in his day - so he's a decent enough pick - but if you're going by the same criteria it's hard not to think of Lebron James in the same category. He is equally freakishly athletic - both long, quick, and incredibly strong.

[stretch]

Well, I totally agree Dennis Rodman was freakishly athletic in his day - so he's a decent enough pick - but if you're going by the same criteria it's hard not to think of Lebron James in the same category. He is equally freakishly athletic - both long, quick, and incredibly strong.

IMO Lebron is the most athletically gifted player the NBA has ever seen, and is one of the most athletically gifted humans ive ever seen, period. up there with guys like Bo Jackson, Deion, etc...

[Kobe24Forever]

Rodman wasn't incredibly athletic, he wont jump outta the park, but he is incredibly smart, and just have a knack of tipping those rebounds in his favor, he's also incredibly durable, and a good passer, he's just an all around high IQ baller, people who knocks on his IQ are retarded, he marketed himself extremely well on and off the court, and the spurs fans were like jazz fans at that time, uptight assholes, which included David Robinson, not wanting to take the blame for his crapper in 95.

[endrity]

IMO Lebron is the most athletically gifted player the NBA has ever seen, and is one of the most athletically gifted humans ive ever seen, period. up there with guys like Bo Jackson, Deion, etc...

+1

But still Rodman was a clear freak of nature, an absolute beast and Phil has every right to say what he said about him.

[Findog]

Rodman was a loser who played on a winning team in Chicago. Winners don't quit on their teams.

Winners also don't go out of their way to antagonize talented role players that can help their teams. Maybe if D-Rob wasn't such a prissy bitch and treated Rodman with professional courtesy and respect, the Spurs would've gotten more out of him.

[Lakers_55]

I met Rodman a few years back at an Orange county beach. Pretty awesome guy. He tipped the valet parker $100 to keep a good eye on his Cadillac.

[SenorSpur]

it still amazes me to think that a 6'7" undersized power forward outrebounded every player in the NBA for nearly a decade. That's a pretty unbelievable accomplishment.

That, and as someone stated, he could dominate a game without scoring a single point. Both of these feats are incredibly difficult to accomplish and it truly demonstrates Rodman's brilliance as a basketball player.

Of course, I'll never forgive him for quitting on the team in that playoff series versus Utah in '95.

[stretch]

That, and as someone stated, he could dominate a game without scoring a single point. Both of these feats are incredibly difficult to accomplish and it truly demonstrates Rodman's brilliance as a basketball player.

Of course, I'll never forgive him for quitting on the team in that playoff series versus Utah in '95.

at least you give him props for his skillset, instead of just blindly hating and discrediting him

:tu

[SenorSpur]

This is rumor, but before Rodman became an emotional nut after getting involved with Madonna, he was a suicidal wreck because of his now ex-wife. Story is that he found her fucking another Pistons player. Allegedly, it was Vinnie Johnson. So, not only was the woman he loved and shared a child with cheating on him, but it was with one of his teammates. Shit like this happens to a lot of people, but as others have, Rodman didn't handle it well. At some point soon after, Chuck Daly found Rodman in his car outside the Palace garage with a handgun in his mouth.

Wow! If that first episode is true, I don't know how they were able to remain teammates and overcome the tension enough to maintain their level of productivity.


I don't have first hand knowledge of any of that. Like I said, it's rumored legend. But, I tend to believe there's a lot of truth in it, and it's in part what transformed Dennis Rodman, the person.

I don't have first hand knowledge of the first event, but the episode with the shotgun was confirmed because it was reporting in the Detroit Free Press. Unless it was a fabrication, I gave it credence.

[Chucho]

As a Spurs fan, I can easily say Dennis Rodman's contributions to those Bull's teams are FAR MORE than that of Manu Ginobili's contributions to the Spurs dynasty. Easy. Any unbiased basketball aficionado could tell you that, locker room problems or not.

Dennis Rodman is the greatest defensive player ever, and a fucking revolutionary player at that. He paved the way for players like Bruce Bowen and other "defensive specialists". Players whose intangibles are more revered on a team than just another offensive minded player who gives nothing else. If not for Rodman's style and work ethic, bum ass Ben Wallace wouldn't be getting the millions he really doesn't deserve in the first place. Now almost every team has a defensive specialist in some form or fashion and they can thank Mr. Rodman for that. Not every player, especially a defensive minded player leaves a mark like that in a game and it will be a total miscarriage of justice if he doesn't get into the HOF.

[SenorSpur]

at least you give him props for his skillset, instead of just blindly hating and discrediting him

:tu

Thanks. I'm a Spurs fan first, but I DO appreciate great players and great basketball. No one in their right mind could ever deny Rodman's absolute, unquestioned brilliance as a basketball player.

While I hate what he did to the Spurs, I don't hate him as a player. I'm hurt because I really believe if the chemistry had been better on that Spurs team, they would've won the title in either '94 or '95. Now Vinny Del Negro? I've got enough hate left over for him to last 10 lifetimes. :lol

That said, I don't want to take anything away from Houston either because they were the superior team and Olajuwon was playing out of his mind.

[SenorSpur]

As a Spurs fan, I can easily say Dennis Rodman's contributions to those Bull's teams are FAR MORE than that of Manu Ginobili's contributions to the Spurs dynasty. Easy. Any unbiased basketball aficionado could tell you that, locker room problems or not.

Dennis Rodman is the greatest defensive player ever, and a fucking revolutionary player at that. He paved the way for players like Bruce Bowen and other "defensive specialists". Players whose intangibles are more revered on a team than just another offensive minded player who gives nothing else. If not for Rodman's style and work ethic, bum ass Ben Wallace wouldn't be getting the millions he really doesn't deserve in the first place. Now almost every team has a defensive specialist in some form or fashion and they can thank Mr. Rodman for that. Not every player, especially a defensive minded player leaves a mark like that in a game and it will be a total miscarriage of justice if he doesn't get into the HOF.


I doubt Rodman will get consideration for the HOF, but he most definitely SHOULD. Five championships; 6-7 rebounding titles, DPOY and a significant contributor to those championship teams. I believe he could very well be the greatest defensive player ever - which is why he should be in the HOF. At least he should be mentioned in the conversation.

[BWS-1994]

Rodman knew his strengths and played on it.

He had different views with teammates. But I guess his previous coaches on some of the said teams made a bigger difference: Chuck Daly, Phil Jackson.

[baseline bum]

Winners also don't go out of their way to antagonize talented role players that can help their teams. Maybe if D-Rob wasn't such a prissy bitch and treated Rodman with professional courtesy and respect, the Spurs would've gotten more out of him.

DRob didn't treat Rodman with respect? How respectful to Robinson is Rodman not showing to practice for game 5 after the team evened the series at 2-2? How respectful to Robinson is Rodman jacking up three three pointers for no reason in the first quarter of a must-win game 2 when they had already dropped the first? Rodman knew how to play to his strengths my ass. Show me exactly where Robinson disrespected Rodman or you're just pulling shit out of your ass.

[baseline bum]

at least you give him props for his skillset, instead of just blindly hating and discrediting him

:tu

I've never disrespected Rodman's skillset or blindly hated him. I gave airtight reasons why Rodman was a piece of shit in a lot of his stops, and all anyone here can do is make excuses about him not getting an extension (at a time when he still had that year and another remaining on his contract) or him not getting along with teammates. You're not a team player if you can't put aside beefs with other players you're supposed to be working with and helping.

[baseline bum]

As a Spurs fan, I can easily say Dennis Rodman's contributions to those Bull's teams are FAR MORE than that of Manu Ginobili's contributions to the Spurs dynasty. Easy. Any unbiased basketball aficionado could tell you that, locker room problems or not.

Dennis Rodman is the greatest defensive player ever, and a fucking revolutionary player at that. He paved the way for players like Bruce Bowen and other "defensive specialists". Players whose intangibles are more revered on a team than just another offensive minded player who gives nothing else. If not for Rodman's style and work ethic, bum ass Ben Wallace wouldn't be getting the millions he really doesn't deserve in the first place. Now almost every team has a defensive specialist in some form or fashion and they can thank Mr. Rodman for that. Not every player, especially a defensive minded player leaves a mark like that in a game and it will be a total miscarriage of justice if he doesn't get into the HOF.

Rodman was the first defensive specialist? :lmao

As if Michael Cooper, Maurice Lucas, Dennis Johnson, Buck Williams, etc. never existed?

[stretch]

I've never disrespected Rodman's skillset or blindly hated him. I gave airtight reasons why Rodman was a piece of shit in a lot of his stops, and all anyone here can do is make excuses about him not getting an extension (at a time when he still had that year and another remaining on his contract) or him not getting along with teammates. You're not a team player if you can't put aside beefs with other players you're supposed to be working with and helping.

and none of that has nothing to do with what he is capable of doing on the court. that is a whole different subject. i dont see why you keep bringing that to the table, when it has nothing to do with the matter at hand.

[baseline bum]

Rodman wasn't incredibly athletic, he wont jump outta the park, but he is incredibly smart, and just have a knack of tipping those rebounds in his favor, he's also incredibly durable, and a good passer, he's just an all around high IQ baller, people who knocks on his IQ are retarded, he marketed himself extremely well on and off the court, and the spurs fans were like jazz fans at that time, uptight assholes, which included David Robinson, not wanting to take the blame for his crapper in 95.

Another fucking retard who thinks 95 was all Robinson's fault, but somehow Rodman's not to blame for quitting on the team.

[baseline bum]

LMAO @ Spurs fans being uptight assholes. Rodman was way more popular than Robinson here until he pulled the '95 disappearing act.

[baseline bum]

and none of that has nothing to do with what he is capable of doing on the court. that is a whole different subject. i dont see why you keep bringing that to the table, when it has nothing to do with the matter at hand.

This thread has a lot of people ignoring his destructive actions on the court while presenting Rodman as a model player for a team to win around, so it is relevant.

[stretch]

This thread has a lot of people ignoring his destructive actions on the court while presenting Rodman as a model player for a team to win around, so it is relevant.

no one ever said anything about Rodman being a model player for a team to win around. just that his skill-sets are all the most vital skills for a team to possess to win championship (rebounding, defense, hard/physical play, determination, heart), and he has them all in one package, which makes him an extremely unique player.

but no, you completely took things out of context. you lack simple comprehnsion skills and leave us to wonder what kind of incomprehensible stupid bullshit runs through your mind all day.

btw- if his actions were so destructive, then he probably wouldnt have 5 rings and had been a major part of those 5 championship teams. when there is an issue... there is always another side to the story.

[baseline bum]

no one ever said anything about Rodman being a model player for a team to win around.



I've always said, if I could build a team from all the players throughout history, Rodman would be an automatic pick.


And you tell me I have no reading comprehension? :lol

[baseline bum]

but no, you completely took things out of context. you lack simple comprehnsion skills and leave us to wonder what kind of incomprehensible stupid bullshit runs through your mind all day.

I took nothing out of context. I responded to people who called him the most underrated player of all-time and those who said he belonged on a team of all-time greats. This thread diverged pretty quickly from being just about the physical gifts Phil Jackson was hyping with Rodman. I like when you complained about me blindly discrediting him, and then wanted to change the subject when I called you out on it.

[lefty]

Kobe's huge ego has been insulted.

Bryant is so pissed off he's gonna try to win the rebounding title next season

[baseline bum]

Kobe's huge ego has been insulted.

Bryant is so pissed off he's gonna try to win the rebounding title next season

No... this thread can't be a Fuck Kobe and Fuck Rodman one at the same time!

[stretch]

And you tell me I have no reading comprehension? :lol

being on the team doesnt mean the team wins AROUND you.

its like saying the Bulls won around Pippen, just because he was on the team, when we all know it was Jordan they won around.

[stretch]

I took nothing out of context. I responded to people who called him the most underrated player of all-time and those who said he belonged on a team of all-time greats. This thread diverged pretty quickly from being just about the physical gifts Phil Jackson was hyping with Rodman. I like when you complained about me blindly discrediting him, and then wanted to change the subject when I called you out on it.

no. :sleep

fail

:bang :wow :ihit :rolleyes :flipoff :wtf :fight :duck :dizzy :shootme :makemyday :drunk :cuss :jack :nutkick: :stirpot: :frying: :td :ban:

[baseline bum]

cute

[Supergirl]

Rodman and Robinson were equally to blame for the disaster that was Rodman on the Spurs. Robinson can be too preachy and in your face with people whose lifestyles he disagrees, but Rodman was irresponsible and disrespectful to his team. It just wasn't a good match. It was Robinson's team at the time, and Rodman was just too different to gel. It's a good example of how sometimes just adding talent is not the answer.

Nevertheless, none of this has anything to do with the original post, which was about Rodman's physique and whether he was the "greatest athlete" of all time.

[EJK5032]

Rodman highlight video with a PJ song:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Phil-Jackson-Rodman-is-the-greatest-athlete-I-v?urn=nba,103886

[And1Mak]

I thought it was going to be DJ Mbenga

[LakeShow]

Do yourself a favor and go check out Rodman's stat totals by season. Throw in everything Stretch said (really consider the intangibility stuff) and then revise your views.

And BTW, the reason the Utah Jazz lost to the Bulls in 97' 98' isn't because we were afraid of Michael. No, it's because Dennis Rodman got into Malone's head like a psychologist and completely owned him.


Rodman could have justifiably been the MVP of that series. At times it looked like he was the only player on the court. I remember one sequence when Rodman dived for a rebound going out of bounds, saved it, got back on the court, grabbed the rebound that bounced wide left, passed it out and grabbed the rebound wide right. The guy was all over the place.


and THAT right there is what makes him special. and the fact that he could do it in pretty much EVERY way that doesnt involve scoring. we have lots of rebounding specialists, defensive specialists, energy/hustling specialists, etc... but Rodman is ALL of those things combined.

and i do agree with your point about Phil. while i think he is a very overrated strategist, I think what makes him a great coach is a skill that most unsuccessful (and even many successful) coaches lack... people skills. he knows how to deal with players very well, and is able to get in their heads in a strangely respectful way that players such as Jordan couldn't even describe, and they cant help but like the guy.

No Doubt! Phil made Rodman an untouchable no matter what MJ, Pippen or any player felt about him. If he broke the rules, phil would just fine him and move on. End of story!

[stretch]

Nevertheless, none of this has anything to do with the original post, which was about Rodman's physique and whether he was the "greatest athlete" of all time.

im not posting this directly towards you, but i noticed several other posters in this thread said the same thing, but actually it was really about the best athlete that Phil Jackson said he personally coached. just wanted to point it out.

[stretch]

I thought it was going to be DJ Mbenga

I actually saw DJ Mbenga at Cafe Brazil in Dallas, off of 75 and Mockingbird the other night. Actually, it was like 3 am on Sunday, lol.