Which was the more spectacular performance

[Indazone]

Kobe's 81 pt game or T-Mac's 13 pts in 35 seconds? A topic sure to get Lakers and Rockets fans all riled up. :D

[KidCongo]

LeBron's 29 of last 30 in ECF game 5. Playoff game>>that shit

[ShoogarBear]

Kobe's 81 has only been done one other time in the NBA, even though it was against a crappy team.

Something similar to T-Mac's feat has been done at least a couple of times (Reggie Miller and Isaiah Thomas come to mind).

But yeah, LeBron's beat both.

[Kamnik]

LeBron's 29 of last 30 in ECF game 5. Playoff game>>that shit

agreed

[m33p0]

LeBron's 29 of last 30 in ECF game 5. Playoff game>>that shit
ownage.
/thread

[KidCongo]

but, in respect to ur poll its Kobe

[JamStone]

Kobe's 81 has only been done one other time in the NBA, even though it was against a crappy team.

Something similar to T-Mac's feat has been done at least a couple of times (Reggie Miller and Isaiah Thomas come to mind).

But yeah, LeBron's beat both.


Yeah, Reggie's was 8 points in 8.9 seconds in a playoff game AT Madison Square Garden.

Rodney Rogers hit three 3-pointers in 9 seconds.


I don't think it's close between T-Mac and Kobe. Kobe's 81 point performance is far more impressive.

[stretch]

I'd go with T-Mac. He did it in the final seconds of a seemingly over game against the Spurs (who are among the greatest defensive teams of all time and also won the title that year), while Kobe's 81 came against a shitty raptors team. Granted, both are incredibly impressive, but T-Mac's was more unique and a more clutch performance than anything Kobe has ever done, and more clutch than almost anything that has happened in the NBA period.

[monosylab1k]

LeBron's 29 of last 30 in ECF game 5. Playoff game>>that shit

win

[stretch]

LeBron's 29 of last 30 in ECF game 5. Playoff game>>that shit

arguably the greatest single game performance of all time.

[JamStone]

arguably the greatest single game performance of all time.

Definitely up there.

I'd still have to go with Magic Johnson's game 6 in the 1980 NBA Finals when he jumped center and finished with 42 points, 15 rebounds, and 7 assists and clinched the NBA title.

[stretch]

Definitely up there.

I'd still have to go with Magic Johnson's game 6 in the 1980 NBA Finals when he jumped center and finished with 42 points, 15 rebounds, and 7 assists and clinched the NBA title.

definitley among the greatest performances as well. one thing that irks me about that is the the "center" stuff. it was bull-crap and massively overblown and overused.

[Trainwreck2100]

TMac had Parker to foul him on a 3 and then for Parker to throw the ball away on an inbounds pass for his.

[Tippecanoe]

TMac had Parker to foul him on a 3

im pretty sure it was duncan. i remember from the highlights.

[stretch]

TMac had Parker to foul him on a 3 and then for Parker to throw the ball away on an inbounds pass for his.

actually duncan fouled him and no one threw away an inbounds pass. devin browns sucky ass tried to do too much, and the rockets stole the ball from him.

[Medvedenko]

Actually I like Kobe's 62 in 3 q's outscoring the Mavs all by his lonesome. However anything like 81 trumps all with exception to Wilt's 100, even though I believe Kobe's is far more effecient and difficult given today's game and that he was a SG.

[lefty]

Yinka Dare : 4 assists in 110 NBA games

[baseline bum]

This one's pretty clearly Kobe. No one had approached 80 in 40 years, and the game is slower and has fewer possessions than it did in the 60s. LA was down like 15 in that game, and his explosion is why they won it. TMac's closing performance is incredible no doubt, but I'd rate Isiah's equivalent finish to force OT in an elimination game of the playoffs over it (I think it was 84, and it was against the Knicks).

[Magic_Johnson]

Definitely up there.

I'd still have to go with Magic Johnson's game 6 in the 1980 NBA Finals when he jumped center and finished with 42 points, 15 rebounds, and 7 assists and clinched the NBA title.

+1

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Actually I like Kobe's 62 in 3 q's outscoring the Mavs all by his lonesome. However anything like 81 trumps all with exception to Wilt's 100, even though I believe Kobe's is far more effecient and difficult given today's game and that he was a SG.

His performance was great to say the least, but it definitely doesn't trump everything. Lebron's 29 out of 30 was much more impressive, and so was Duncan's near quadruple double in a clinching finals game IMO given the importance of the games. Kobe's was done in a meaningless game against a bad bad team.

[baseline bum]

Does that mean David Robinson's 71 was meaningless too?

[Medvedenko]

81 is still 81.....regardless of 29 of 30, or 30 in a q (kobe did that)...complete game of 81 trumps all. This will be talked about for all time. Is Lebron's more difficult, probably and given it was in the playoffs it resonated. However, 81 points...just think about that for a minute.

[timvp]

TMac had Parker to foul him on a 3 and then for Parker to throw the ball away on an inbounds pass for his.The haterade runs deep with this fellow. Now he's just making things up.

[RonMexico]

TMac had Parker to foul him on a 3 and then for Parker to throw the ball away on an inbounds pass for his.

Bowen fouled on the 3, I believe.

[RonMexico]

Does that mean David Robinson's 71 was meaningless too?

Yes.

Although when he won the scoring title, he began the popular trend of using "tell me how my ass taste" in his acceptance speech.

[dirk4mvp]

LeBron's 29 of last 30 in ECF game 5. Playoff game>>that shit

this.

and people say lebron doesnt have a jumper

[stretch]

Bowen fouled on the 3, I believe.

fucking wrong. it was duncan. already stated.

[dirk4mvp]

looks like duncan fouled him to me

EMnNN0FkT-w

[monosylab1k]

However, 81 points...just think about that for a minute.

81 wasn't that great. Let Wilt or Jordan play against the Craptors and they'd drop 100+ on them.

[stretch]

81 wasn't that great. Let Wilt or Jordan play against the Craptors and they'd drop 100+ on them.

Jordan, yes. Wilt, no. He doesnt have the luxury of dunking on a bunch of unathletic 6'5 white guys, and his biggest terror being someone that is 6'9.

[monosylab1k]

He doesnt have the luxury of dunking on a bunch of unathletic 6'5 white guys, and his biggest terror being someone that is 6'9.

Well it probably wouldn't have been tough for him to abuse Charmin Soft Bosh & that shitty Italian in the post.

[Sissiborgo]

Kobe's 81 Hall of fame....

[angel_luv]

T-Mac's 13 pts in 35 seconds

I was present, dressed in Spurs apparel, for that game.
I went alone- bought a ticket as Christmas gift to myself.

Even though it ended badly for me a Spurs fan, I will always remember that game and so got my money's worth. :)

[Medvedenko]

81 wasn't that great. Let Wilt or Jordan play against the Craptors and they'd drop 100+ on them.


Sure....because MJ never played against shitty competition....What I'm trying to reveal is this....It's the second highest scoring game of all time and I believe it's the single greatest scoring game in history given it's effeciency and not just a spoon fed post up move ad nauseum. Why couldn't jordan even come close is a mystery to me.....

Obviously I'm sure a lot of NBA players could do it, however none of them have as all stars must be aligned, matchups and overal game flow be determined.

[stretch]

Well it probably wouldn't have been tough for him to abuse Charmin Soft Bosh & that shitty Italian in the post.

I'd put my money on those two hold their own, than whoever the fuck played in the 60s that no one knows about.

[stretch]

Why couldn't jordan even come close is a mystery to me.....


Jordan didnt need to. He was too busy helping make his teammates look better by setting them up with easy buckets and winning titles to do that.

[timvp]

For the record, TMac's barrage was more funny than it was amazing. It was a fluke occurence mostly due to the Spurs getting sloppy near the end of the game. I was actually happy after that game because the Spurs had been blowing leads and not taking care of business at the end of games.

That was a wakeup call and was a rallying cry to never let up as the Spurs went on to win the championship that season. Thanks TMac :tu

[stretch]

For the record, TMac's barrage was more funny than it was amazing. It was a fluke occurence mostly due to the Spurs getting sloppy near the end of the game. I was actually happy after that game because the Spurs had been blowing leads and not taking care of business at the end of games.

:rolleyes

[JamStone]

this.

and people say lebron doesnt have a jumper

I'm pretty sure people know LeBron can hit a three pointer and can get hot like many if not most NBA players. When people say he doesn't have a jumper, it's more or less an exaggerating meaning he doesn't have a "consistent" jump shot.

[2Cleva]

Kobe gets it hands down of the two.

Biggest playoff moment was Isiah Thomas giving the Lakers 25 in the 3rd quarter of Game 6 of the 88 Finals, some with a fractured ankle and being guarded by one of the great defenders in Michael Cooper. Even in a loss, that was bigger than even what LeBron did imo.

[JamStone]

Biggest playoff moment was Isiah Thomas giving the Lakers 25 in the 3rd quarter of Game 6 of the 88 Finals, some with a fractured ankle and being guarded by one of the great defenders in Michael Cooper. Even in a loss, that was bigger than even what LeBron did imo.

Could agree with that if the Pistons won game 6. Unfortunately for us Pistons fans, they didn't. I think the fact that LeBron's performance actually was the reason for the Cavs winning that game, it trumps Isiah's performance. Isiah's 25 point quarter on a fractured ankle might be more incredible on different levels, but LeBron's performance won the game.

[monosylab1k]

It's the second highest scoring game of all time and I believe it's the single greatest scoring game in history given it's effeciency and not just a spoon fed post up move ad nauseum.

Um, is there a more efficient play in basketball than a dominant post move?

Do you need a dictionary?

[monosylab1k]

Why couldn't jordan even come close is a mystery to me.....

His 6 titles as the undisputed leader of the team probably comfort him. Along with knowing that Kobe's blown it twice in the Finals, once as a leader and once as a sidekick. But hey Kobe's got 81 and "second greatest Robin ever" status.

[Reggie Miller]

I'd have to vote for myself on this one...

Consider the style points from the Spike Lee baiting alone...

[Reggie Miller]

Um, is there a more efficient play in basketball than a dominant post move?

Do you need a dictionary?


You can't reason with someone who has obviously never heard of a set shot, either.

[monosylab1k]

Well, 81 points of total domination

in a meaningless regular season game.

[Reggie Miller]

Jordan played against much worse teams throughout his career and never even came close to doing what Kobe did. Actually, Kobe could have duplicated what he did against Jordans Wizards when he dropped 44 on them in the first half. Well, 81 points of total domination is much greater than 29 in a quarter by Lebron or 13 in 35 seconds by Tmac.


Could that be because in the grand scheme of things, 81 points in a game doesn't mean shit? You're still a typical starting shooting guard's night away from Wilt.

Getting excited about 81 points in a game is on the same level as getting excited about the first round of the All-Star Home Run Derby. Without some greater context, scoring about 80% of the single game scoring record in a regular season game is no more than the answer to a trivia question.

[timvp]

:rolleyes

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=108357&postcount=6

. . . and the Spurs never had a meltdown like that again on their way to championship number three. Thanks again, TMac.

[JamStone]

And you also cant reason with someone that could never grasp the idea that a zone defense would prevent even the greatest big man from scoring that many points. Infact, when was the last time a big man in this league scored over 50?

Jermaine O'Neal and Amare Stoudemire in 2005.

Zone defense started being allowed in the NBA in the 2001-02 season.

[Reggie Miller]

100 > 81.

It's a real difficult concept.


It's like saying that Sammy Sosa's 609 home runs is the greatest feat in MLB history when Aaron has 755. Need some more analogies?

[stretch]

You talk as if you have never even seen Kobe play. Wes Matthews for the showtime Lakers did something similiar to what T-mac did. I think the two is no comparison in my opinion. Anyone who has ever played ball knows that scoring 81 points is unthinkable!!! Kobe made it look easy. Lebrons 29 was great but Kobe dropped 30 on the Mavs in 1 quarter!!!

Oh, and how about this for clutch:toast

VeY6_f-pJWc&feature=related

oh wow a homer laker fan. or kobe cocksucker, perhaps i should say.

:rolleyes

[stretch]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=108357&postcount=6

. . . and the Spurs never had a meltdown like that again on their way to championship number three. Thanks again, TMac.

i dont disagree with what you said in the linked post. just the way you discredit his accomplishment.

[stretch]

Well, 81 points of total domination is much greater than 29 in a quarter by Lebron or 13 in 35 seconds by Tmac.

shows how narrowminded you really are.

give me Lebrons 29, or Magic's 44, or Isaiah's busted ankle game over Wilt's 100 in a HEARTBEAT.

[dirk4mvp]

You know what... the simple fact that you are a Sonics fan raises questions about your rationalization skills:lol



You shouldn't take people's screen names fav. team into too much into account around here.

[JamStone]

Point proven. If you go back to when they first allowed the zone you might have 5-7 big men that has scored 50. Hell, you have atleast 5 or 6 guards that can score 50 any time they want to. One while I think Kobe, Lebron, AI and Arenas were all taking turns doing it just for fun.

From 1990 through the 2000-01 season, the season before zone defenses were allowed, there were twelve 50 point games by traditional low post big men (Shaq 3, Karl Malone 3, David Robinson 3, Hakeem, Chris Webber, and Alonzo Mourning). So even in the era of no zone defenses, during that twelve seasons prior to zone defenses being allowed, big men averaged one 50 point game each season.

The season zone defenses were allowed in 2001-02, there were two 50 point games by traditional low post big men (Tim Duncan, Shareef Abdur Rahim).

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=50pointsinagame&prov=st&type=lgns

I didn't count Antawn Jamison, Tom Chambers, or Terry Cummings as traditional low post big men, although you could argue Cummings was.


Just because Wilt Chamberlain scored 50 points like it was 25 points back in his era, it doesn't mean it was common place for big men before zone defenses. It was still a rare occurrence. And, the NBA changed from the late 1980s and beyond. It became a guard-oriented game. Guards got bigger and could score inside, and you add the three point line and individual style scoring mimicking Michael Jordan, you got more opportunity for guards to score more at a higher rate.

It's not because of zone defenses.

[Medvedenko]

Mono...you still fascinate me with your weak takes and complete hate for one player. You're so transparent it's comical. I understand being young and a mavs fan is a poor combination for any basketball acumen. Still, you take the cake. Enjoy your revisionist history and I'll enjoy mine.

[monosylab1k]

Mono...I have no rebuttal. I'm a douchey Laker fan who would rather suck off Kobe than actually get some basketball IQ.

For everyone's benefit I used Babel Fish to translate Medvedenko's previous comment from Douchebag Lakerfan to English. You're welcome.

[dirk4mvp]

:rollin

[Medvedenko]

For everyone's benefit I used Babel Fish to translate Medvedenko's previous comment from Douchebag Lakerfan to English. Your welcome.

Thanks, I thought you should use "Gematria" next in your analysis......

I can't wait for the season to start so you can start worrying about your mavs.

[Girasuck]

Biggest playoff moment was Isiah Thomas giving the Lakers 25 in the 3rd quarter of Game 6 of the 88 Finals, some with a fractured ankle and being guarded by one of the great defenders in Michael Cooper. Even in a loss, that was bigger than even what LeBron did imo.

Isiah and LeBron's performances were both great but nothing compares to Jordan's flu game in the 97 NBA Finals. I remember it quite well because I saw history in person. What Jordan did that game is second to none.

[TheMadHatter]

This poll shouldn't be close, but given the sheer number of Kobe haters (which ironically includes the entire Mav fan base.....yes all 5 of you!) I'm not surprised.

[monosylab1k]

This poll shouldn't be close, but given the sheer number of Kobe haters (which ironically includes the entire Mav fan base.....yes all 5 of you!) I'm not surprised.

Hi Jeff.


http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/9744/eptsportsnbaexperts4916md9.jpg

[TheMadHatter]

Hi Jeff.


http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/9744/eptsportsnbaexperts4916md9.jpg

....case in point

[dallaskd]

Tmac.

[2Cleva]

Wilt's 100 does come within a context - it wasn't done in a competitive game. Much different than Kobe leading his team from behind.


The first 42 minutes

From the beginning, Chamberlain's Warriors dominated against the Knicks. After a few minutes, the Warriors led 19-3, and their star center had already scored 13 points. At the end of the first quarter, the Knicks trailed 42-26, and in his typical style, Chamberlain had finger-rolled, dunked and jump-shot his way to 23 points.[2] Imhoff was soon benched in foul trouble.[6] By halftime, the Warriors had lost some of their edge, but still led with 79-68. After 24 minutes, Chamberlain's point total stood at 41. However, as he scored 60 or more points 32 times, the Warriors felt little excitement about this fact. "I often came into the locker room with 30 or 35 points, therefore, 41 points was not a big deal", he later explained.[2] Warriors coach Frank McGuire ordered his men to feed Chamberlain: "Wilt is always open, so pass him the ball".[2]

The simple tactic proved unstoppable. Soon, he had surpassed the 50-point barrier, causing arena speaker Dave Zinkoff[7] to fire up the previously sleepy crowd. He also kept his cool despite getting perpetually triple- and quadruple-teamed by the Knicks, who did not shy away from hard fouls to distract the center. McGuire was irate and demanded that the referees call more fouls, but Chamberlain could not be stopped.[8] He scored another 28 points to lift his Warriors to a commanding 125-104 lead when the third quarter ended. His own total stood at 69, nine shy of his previous scoring record. Knicks third center Dave Budd, who alternated with the foul-troubled Imhoff at pivot, later stated resistance was practically futile: "You couldn't play [Chamberlain] conventionally because he was so big. The only thing you could attempt to do was either front him, and in that case they'd try to lob it in to him, or beat him down the floor and set up where he wanted to get and force him out a couple of extra steps. The guy weighed 300 or 270 [pounds], so that wasn't easy, either."[3] Darrall Imhoff later even stated, "He literally stuffed us through the hoop with the ball. It didn't even help we quintuple-teamed him." Chamberlain at first thought he would possibly break a free throw shooting record,[8] but stated that at the end of the third quarter he realised he could break his own 75-point scoring record (for a 48-minute game) or his record 78 points, set in double overtime.[8]

In the fourth quarter, 7:51 minutes were left to play when Chamberlain scored his 79th point, breaking his own record and sending the crowd into a frenzy. The 4,124 spectators screamed "Give it to Wilt! Give it to Wilt!" The Warriors suddenly sensed that they could write basketball history, and fed Chamberlain the ball at every attack. Warrior Al Attles later explained: "We wanted that Wilt got the record, because we all liked him." Attles himself led by example, passing up on an easy layup so that Chamberlain could score points 88 and 89, five minutes before the end. In addition, Warriors guard Guy Rodgers would end the game with 20 assists.[2]

[edit] Frantic last minutes

However, according to all eye-witnesses, the game became a farce. Fearing ultimate humiliation if Chamberlain scored 100 points on them, the Knicks blindly fouled any Warrior except Chamberlain, to force them to hit free throws and keep the ball out of the center's hands.[2] Effectively, they played the opposite of what a normal club would do if they faced a deficit, willingly giving up many easy points instead of making attempts to rally back.[8] Warriors coach Frank McGuire reacted by pulling off his entire starting five save Chamberlain (i.e. forwards Tom Meschery, Al Attles and guards Guy Rodgers and Paul Arizin) and sent in bench players Joe Ruklick, York Larese, Ed Conlin and Ted Luckenbill. The intention was to foul the Knicks, in order to get the ball back after free throws and give Chamberlain the ball. Thus each team spent the last minutes fouling each other.[8]

Opinions were split on this matter. Warriors forward Tom Meschery said: "The rival [New York] was not going to become a part of the history. During last minutes the coach told them to foul anyone with the ball – anyone but Chamberlain. So we had to throw-in from the side line across the floor just to pass the ball to him."[4] However, Knicks player Richie Guerin, who scored 39 points, put the blame on the Warriors and complained: "The Warriors used any means [i.e., fouling tactics] to get the ball to Chamberlain. This had nothing to do with basketball anymore."[8] In any case, the Warriors ended with 25 personal fouls, and the Knicks with 32, and lost Imhoff and Willie Naulls with six fouls.[2]

With 2:45 left, Chamberlain had 94 points, and after scoring on a jump shot and a layup, he stood at 98 with less than a minute to play. Facing a quintuple-team by the entire Knicks team, Chamberlain trotted into the low post.[8] At the next play, Ruklick passed to Guy Rodgers, who passed to Chamberlain close to the basket. After missing his first shot, Luckenbill rebounded and passed to Chamberlain, but he missed again. Luckenbill again rebounded and this time passed to Ruklick: instead of going for an easy layup, he immediately lobbed a high pass to Chamberlain.[9] With 46 seconds left, Chamberlain got free from the five Knicks, jumped high and stuffed the ball through the hoop for an alley-oop slam dunk to hit the century mark.[2] The arena exploded in a frenzy. Over 200 spectators stormed the floor, wanting to touch the hero of the night.[8] Ruklick himself immediately ran to the scorer's table, and made sure the statisticians noted that he was credited with the assist.[9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain%27s_100-point_game

[Brutalis]

Kobe's 81 point game is booty. Look who it was against. Give me a fucking break. It's like trying to pitch Robinson's 71 point game against the Clippers. Sure I'm glad he won the scoring title but he was not the best scorer in the league that year.

[Flight3107]

This poll shouldn't be close, but given the sheer number of Kobe haters (which ironically includes the entire Mav fan base.....yes all 5 of you!) I'm not surprised.


I voted for Kobe you cock gobbler.

[Roxsfan]

I'd go with T-Mac. He did it in the final seconds of a seemingly over game against the Spurs (who are among the greatest defensive teams of all time and also won the title that year), while Kobe's 81 came against a shitty raptors team. Granted, both are incredibly impressive, but T-Mac's was more unique and a more clutch performance than anything Kobe has ever done, and more clutch than almost anything that has happened in the NBA period.

:toast:toast

[Showtime24 LAKERS]

Kobe's 62pts in three quarters against Mav's 61pts, now THAT is impressive!! :king :toast

[TheMadHatter]

I think people fail to realize how incredibly difficult it is to score 80+ points in a fucking NBA game, regardless of the competition.

MJ never came close, and don't give me any BS that he could have if he wanted to. He was very much a me-first player in his younger days when he was averaging 30+ ppg.

[TheMadHatter]

Kobe's 62pts in three quarters against Mav's 61pts, now THAT is impressive!! :king :toast

I agree outscoring the entire Mav team......fucking incredible.

[IronMexican]

I think people fail to realize how incredibly difficult it is to score 80+ points in a fucking NBA game, regardless of the competition.

MJ never came close, and don't give me any BS that he could have if he wanted to. He was very much a me-first player in his younger days when he was averaging 30+ ppg.

76 is pretty close. but yeah, 80 is very hard to attain.

[Roxsfan]

I think people fail to realize how incredibly difficult it is to score 80+ points in a fucking NBA game, regardless of the competition.

MJ never came close, and don't give me any BS that he could have if he wanted to. He was very much a me-first player in his younger days when he was averaging 30+ ppg.

the fact that it was against a D-league..ish team dilutes it a bit. Tmac's was against prime talent.

[TheMadHatter]

the fact that it was against a D-league..ish team dilutes it a bit. Tmac's was against prime talent.

As if the Lakers were any better that season? That D-League team had a 15 pt lead on the Lakers until Kobe exploded in the 2nd half.

[anakha]

MJ never came close


1) http://www.nba.com/jordan/jordan_63moments.html

63. In the playoffs. Against a MUCH better team. I'd say that comes close.



2) http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE6D6123CF93AA15750C0A9669582 60

69, against a team I consider to be better than the 05-06 Raptors:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/1990.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/TOR/2006.html

I'd consider that to be 'close' as well.

[Reggie Miller]

Laker/Kobe fans are the worst. If I don't kiss his ass, I'm a "hater?"

100 > 81

This is like calling someone a hater because they think Wayne Gretzky (894) was a better scoring center than Marcel Dionne (731).

It's a pretty simple concept. Points scored in a game is a counting stat. Bryant's 81 is only 81% of the "real" record/accomplishment. It us not impressive by definition. Similarly, Marcel Dionne's 731 goals scored by a center is @82% of the "real" benchmark, or 894.

Do I have to draw you a picture?

[TheMadHatter]

Laker/Kobe fans are the worst. If I don't kiss his ass, I'm a "hater?"

100 > 81

This is like calling someone a hater because they think Wayne Gretzky (894) was a better scoring center than Marcel Dionne (731).

It's a pretty simple concept. Points scored in a game is a counting stat. Bryant's 81 is only 81% of the "real" record/accomplishment. It us not impressive by definition. Similarly, Marcel Dionne's 731 goals scored by a center is @82% of the "real" benchmark, or 894.

Do I have to draw you a picture?

I don't get why you're trying to make this argument so black and white.

There are so many factors and variables that are different when Wilt played and got 100 and when Kobe played and got 81. You can't just compare the two as apples-to-apples, unless you want to oversimplify the shit out of things.

[Reggie Miller]

I don't get why you're trying to make this argument so black and white.

There are so many factors and variables that are different when Wilt played and got 100 and when Kobe played and got 81. You can't just compare the two as apples-to-apples, unless you want to oversimplify the shit out of things.


81 points in a game is a COUNTING STAT. By its very nature, it doesn't account for context. What is so difficult to understand?

Kobe's 81 points doesn't account for the competition, how many shots attempted, etc. As a counting stat, it is lower in magnitude than another context-free counting stat, i.e. Chamberlain's 100 points.

Is it that simple? No. However, suggesting that someone has to be impressed by someone's context-free counting stat is equally simplistic horseshit.

[mavs>spurs2]

13 points in 35 seconds is next to impossible. Everything has to happen just right, it's like one in a million. Somehow I just don't buy it that Jordan couldn't score 81 if he wanted to.

[TheMadHatter]

It's not that Jordan couldn't have scored 81 if he wanted, it's that he never came close. He never broke 70 points. This is a man who averaged over 30+ ppg several times in his career. Don't act like he never tried to fill up to the stat sheet, early in his career he was labeled a ball hog just like Kobe was.

It wasn't until the 2nd half of his career that he became the Jordan we all know and love. When he was young he was ruthless and reckless on the court, trying to do it all by his lonesome.

[KidCongo]

It's not that Jordan couldn't have scored 81 if he wanted, it's that he never came close. He never broke 70 points. This is a man who averaged over 30+ ppg several times in his career. Don't act like he never tried to fill up to the stat sheet, early in his career he was labeled a ball hog just like Kobe was.

It wasn't until the 2nd half of his career that he became the Jordan we all know and love. When he was young he was ruthless and reckless on the court, trying to do it all by his lonesome.

mmm 69 point along with 18 boards

[mavs>spurs2]

It's not that Jordan couldn't have scored 81 if he wanted, it's that he never came close. He never broke 70 points. This is a man who averaged over 30+ ppg several times in his career. Don't act like he never tried to fill up to the stat sheet, early in his career he was labeled a ball hog just like Kobe was.

It wasn't until the 2nd half of his career that he became the Jordan we all know and love. When he was young he was ruthless and reckless on the court, trying to do it all by his lonesome.

Jordan might have put up stats but he just never tried to score that many in a single game or he would have, plain and simple. There wasn't anything Jordan couldn't do

[Obstructed_View]

Actually I like Kobe's 62 in 3 q's outscoring the Mavs all by his lonesome. However anything like 81 trumps all with exception to Wilt's 100, even though I believe Kobe's is far more effecient and difficult given today's game and that he was a SG.

That one impressed me more than the 81 point game. Better opponent, closer game, bigger performance.

[2Cleva]

That one impressed me more than the 81 point game. Better opponent, closer game, bigger performance.

Actually, that wasn't a closer game. It was a blowout by the middle of the 3rd.

In the Toronto game, LA was down by as much as 20 in the 3rd before Kobe really got hot and didn't take a lead until the 1:11 left in 3rd. It was less that 5:33 left in the 4th before LA stayed ahead by 10+.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeXZY4eVLlo

What does that mean? Smush Parker and Kwame Brown suck. Brian Cook, Chris Mihm, Devean George and Luke Walton as well.

[TheMadHatter]

The Raptors may have sucked, but the Lakers weren't much better that year.

It doesn't matter, ask any NBA player this same question and they will all say Kobe Bryant's 81 hands down. Ask any NBA player who the best in the game is right now and they will all say Kobe Bryant. Only on silly internet forums with pimple faced teens is he hated on.

[monosylab1k]

Only on silly internet forums with pimple faced teens is he hated on.

and Eagle County too.

[KidCongo]

The Raptors may have sucked, but the Lakers weren't much better that year.

It doesn't matter, ask any NBA player this same question and they will all say Kobe Bryant's 81 hands down. Ask any NBA player who the best in the game is right now and they will all say Kobe Bryant. Only on silly internet forums with pimple faced teens is he hated on.

The Mad Hater has done his research here. Can you hook me up with some stars of the NBA, I wish i could talk to them like you do.

[Reggie Miller]

The Raptors may have sucked, but the Lakers weren't much better that year.

It doesn't matter, ask any NBA player this same question and they will all say Kobe Bryant's 81 hands down. Ask any NBA player who the best in the game is right now and they will all say Kobe Bryant. Only on silly internet forums with pimple faced teens is he hated on.


And only people who can't understand why someone would be more impressed by a rate stat than a counting stat ride Kobe's jock this hard.

I'll make it so simple that even you can understand. It is perfectly logical for someone to be more impressed by 100% shooting in an incredibly stressful situation (impressive rate stat) over 81 points in a meaningless game (impressive counting stat).

Only a fool would trot out "81" as if it means something in of itself. "81" doesn't account for Bryant's FGA, shooting percentage, level of competition (defense on Bryant), time or number of possessions, etc. Then consider that "81" isn't even the record, and you can color me unimpressed.

81 points in a game impresses people that want an amp that goes to 11*. It doesn't impress people who understand that 11 isn't necessarily "one louder."


* My apologies to Nigel Tufnel.

[monosylab1k]

Tim Duncan's 21-20-10-8 is infinitely more impressive than Kobe's 81.

[stretch]

I think people fail to realize how incredibly difficult it is to score 80+ points in a fucking NBA game, regardless of the competition.

MJ never came close, and don't give me any BS that he could have if he wanted to. He was very much a me-first player in his younger days when he was averaging 30+ ppg.

i think people fail to realize how incredibly difficult it is to score 13 points in 33 seconds in a fucking NBA game, regardless of what Reggie Miller may have done in the past.

Kobe never came close to such a clutch performance in his career.

[stretch]

Lebron got hot at the right time and chose to shoot the ball every single time he touched the ball, but Kobes came in the flow of the game. His sorry ass team was getting blown out, and he decided to turn it on and carry his team.

you seriously are a fucking idiot.

you are telling me lebron was jacking shots up only, while kobes came completely in the flow???

Kobe had a whopping 46 FG attempts, as well as another 20 FT attempts, which means he had to have went for at least 50 shots (13 and potentially more being 3 point attempts), in a 4 QUARTER GAME.

lebron had 33 FG attempts (3 being 3pt attempts) and about 14 FT attempts in a game that went to 2 fucking overtimes.

The lakers had a bad first half, being down by 14 at halftime (hardly a blowout), but actually ended the game blowing the raptors out.

The Cavs and Pistons (one of the best defensive teams in the NBA) were neck and neck the entire game, and Lebron then took over. Lebron also had a nice 7 assists and 2 TOs, as opposed to Kobe's 2 assists and 3 TOs.

So much for Lebron just jacking up shots and Kobe playing in the flow. I've never heard of 50 shots being in the flow. Your facts are incredibly skewed.

[stretch]

Oh Im sorry, that was on your beloved Dallas Maggots. You guys were suppose to win it all that year huh. Hey, did you see the look on Cubans face when that guy blew that layup...:lmao

lol predictable

[stretch]

I agree outscoring the entire Mav team......fucking incredible.

that was MUCH more impressive than his 81 point game IMO.

[Reggie Miller]

Tim Duncan's 21-20-10-8 is infinitely more impressive than Kobe's 81.


You mean 21-20-10-9. I still think Duncan should have gotten credit for a block that went to DRob late in the game.

I agree, by the way.

Here's another thing that Kobe fans have a hard time appreciating. At some point, one man's triumph is another man's fluke.

Since 1986, there have been eleven (11) times that a player has scored over 60 points in an NBA regular season game. In comparison, there are well over a hundred times that a player scored between 50 and 60 points in that same period. This seems logical and reasonable. Scoring 61 points should be exponentially more difficult than scoring 51 points: limited number of possessions, shooting fatigue, triple-teams, etc.

Of the eleven instances of players scoring over 60 points, Bryant leads with 81. He also holds 3 of the 11 spots. Michael Jordan accounts for 4 of 11. David Robinson, Karl Malone, Shaq, and Tracy McGrady account for the remaining 4.

A few things jump out at me. Notice that all of these players are what we call "really awesome at basketball." With the exception of McGrady, these players are all no question, first ballot HOFers. In contrast, even a Tony Delk or a Dale Ellis can score 53 points once in their careers.

Whether we are discussing DRob's 71, Bryant's 81, or Chamberlain's 100, one fact stands out. These were not competitive games, and they wouldn't have been competitive games even if Robinson, Bryant, and Chamberlain had sat 48 minutes. Common sense also bears this out. To score significantly more than 61 points becomes even more exponentially difficult, so many things have to break your way. That is, you need a patsy for an opponent, an opponent who isn't willing to hurt you to get the ball out of your hands, an opponent who can't effectively triple-team for some reason, a gajillion shot attempts, and a coach who thinks this crap is more important than resting his best scorer. Quite a synchronicity, really.

Obviously, scoring 71, 81, or a 100 points isn't easy, even against the Washington Generals. That's why it doesn't happen more often, and why we see the names we do on these lists. Still, you almost have to ask if it's more of a fluke than a career highlight. It takes a lot of luck in addition to skill.

[TheMadHatter]

It's the greatest scoring night any of us have ever seen, except for the few among us who were in the arena in Hershey, Pennsylvania, on March 2, 1962. In other words, it's the best performance in NBA history, except for Wilt's 100.

It was 1.7 points per minute, or, in this case, 1.9 points per minute, since Kobe actually sat six minutes against the Toronto Raptors on Sunday in the Lakers' 122-104 come-from-behind win in L.A.

It was 66 shots -- 46 field goal attempts and 20 free throw attempts. Of those FGAs, 28 found the net (60.9 percent), including seven of his 13 3-pointers. Eighteen of 20 free throws followed suit. (Yes, Kobe's free throw streak ended -- at 62.)

It's this -- 2 2 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 3 2 2 1 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 2 1 3 2 2 2 1 1 2 2 2 1 1 1 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1.

It's enough to make you wish he'd have had a faster start, instead of "only" 26 in the first half ... to be followed by 27 in the third quarter ... and 28 in the fourth ... picking up speed with all the inevitability of gravity itself, a runaway train, a basketball bouncing down a steep driveway.

After the game, Kobe insisted it was "a big win" and said getting the W was the most important thing. Not sure anyone believes that, but it was remarkable how Bryant's scoring affected the game, far more than his usual onslaught.

Three minutes into the second half, the Raptors led 71-53. Bryant already had all four of the Lakers' second half points, giving him 30 for the game, but then he cranked it up -- later he would say that he had gone into overdrive because the Lakers were "lethargic," as if he needs a reason.

Over the next 80 seconds, he made a basket and two 3s, cutting the 18-point lead to 12. The Lakers and Kobe kept coming and, late in the third quarter, when he stole a pass and tiptoed down the sidelines to get loose for a dunk and make it 87-85, he put Los Angeles up for good.

Speaking of getting Los Angeles up, Kobe turned on the Showtime crowd for one of the greatest spontaneous celebrations ever for a single player.

For his audience, this was not about beating the Raptors but rather the pinch-me thrill of being in the arena during the greatest individual performance of the past four decades.

It was M-V-P! M-V-P!

But it was more than that -- it was the growing sound of 18,997 paying customers every time Kobe got the ball, and an expectant whoosh every time he went up to shoot, and a noisy, giddy sigh every time he missed, and a roar every time he made the basket or was fouled. It was the sound of a crowd at the circus, watching the trapeze artists at work, watching the greatest show on earth.

And while it's easy to forget when Kobe goes off, especially when the opposing team wears RAPTORS on its chest, this was an NBA team he was doing this to -- a team that was leading the game handily before he really got going.

That team, with talented players like Chris Bosh, Jalen Rose and Mike James on the floor, was clearly rattled, or worse. When everyone realized what Kobe was up to, both teams responded emotionally. The Lakers got a charge from Kobe's energy, while the Raptors were both distracted and overwhelmed. After a 63-point first half, they managed only 41 points in the second half, including only three baskets during a decisive nine-minute stretch.

A month ago, Lakers coach Phil Jackson (along with Kobe himself) held Bryant out of the fourth quarter, when Kobe had 62 and the Lakers had the game vs. the Mavericks locked up. Jackson was criticized, in the Daily Dime and elsewhere, for his decision.

This time, he might have had the same impulse, but he thought better of it. Late in the game, he said later, he told assistant coach Frank Hamblen he would take Kobe out. "I don't think you can," Hamblen replied, according to Jackson. "He has 77 points." And Jackson left Kobe in, until a Toronto turnover with four seconds to play allowed him to remove Kobe for the ovation he deserved and, indeed, even a half-hug from the Zen Master.

Jackson did the right thing this time, because Kobe ultimately wasn't playing against the Raptors. He was playing against all the guys who never scored 80, or even 70 -- Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Dominique Wilkins, Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, Shaquille O'Neal, Jerry West, Karl Malone, Bob McAdoo, Oscar Robertson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Pete Maravich, George Gervin, Bernard King and on and on.

All within the flow of the game, whilst sitting 6 minutes, and at an incredibly efficient FG% of 60%. Simply incredible, simply the best there is right now. Kobe Bean Bryant, respect.

[Rapin' Kobe]

All within the flow of the game, whilst sitting 6 minutes, and at an incredibly efficient FG% of 60%. Simply incredible, simply the best there is right now. Kobe Bean Bryant, respect.

Thanks for tha love, you my number one fan
I'll rape the shit outta your mouth even if you a man
Since you're so in love with how good my dick taste
I wanna ask right now if I can cum in your face

[Reggie Miller]

All within the flow of the game, whilst sitting 6 minutes, and at an incredibly efficient FG% of 60%. Simply incredible, simply the best there is right now. Kobe Bean Bryant, respect.

You are an idiot, and the article you quote is even more idiotic.

"Jackson did the right thing this time, because Kobe ultimately wasn't playing against the Raptors. He was playing against all the guys who never scored 80, or even 70 -- Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Dominique Wilkins, Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, Shaquille O'Neal, Jerry West, Karl Malone, Bob McAdoo, Oscar Robertson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Pete Maravich, George Gervin, Bernard King and on and on."

Since Pistol Pete is dead, I'm pretty fucking sure that Bryant was playing against the Raptors, after all. Scoring 81 points with a corpse guarding you is probably pretty easy.


"For his audience, this was not about beating the Raptors but rather the pinch-me thrill of being in the arena during the greatest individual performance of the past four decades."

Which, oddly enough, consisted of beating the buzzsaw that is the Raptors. Call me crazy, but I think you would have some pretty pissed of Laker fans if Bryant scored 81 in a loss to the Raptors.


You cannot have 46 FGA "in the flow of a game." This is a self-evident fact when sometimes entire teams don't have 46 FGA in a regulation game. It's the equivalent of shooting someone "accidentally" fifteen times, reloading, and then shooting them "accidentally" fifteen times again.

[Indazone]

Kobe's game was like watching a movie unfold. T-Mac's well his performance was completely unexpected. Game was out of reach. Spurs had that game won. Then T-Mac exploded. It was jaw dropping. Most of the fans were already headed for the doors.

The T-Mac Show (http://www.bballcity.com/the-t-mac-show/)

Posted on December 11th, 2004 by Ash Haque


“Tracy McGrady needed only 35 seconds to turn a sure loss into an improbable win and a listless 20-point night into one of the league’s most memorable clutch performances.
McGrady summoned the late-game magic of Reggie Miller on Thursday night, scoring 13 points in a final flurry, including the game-winning 3 with 1.7 seconds left to send the Houston Rockets to their biggest last-minute comeback in franchise history.” Source (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-spurs-rockets-t-macsmiraclefi&prov=ap&type=lgns)

“I swear, I’ve never been a part of anything like that, I don’t realize what I did,” said McGrady, who finished with 33 points, eight rebounds and five assists in the 81-80 victory.
“With just over a minute left in what seemed to be another ugly home loss, the Rockets were being roundly booed following Sura’s airball on a 3-point attempt left Houston with a 74-64 deficit.
By that time, much of the crowd of 16,170 at Toyota Center had cleared. The rest were heading for the exits.
McGrady looked into those emptying stands, and for a brief moment, conceded defeat.

“I was like … we had our chances of winning the ballgame. But, hey, we played a great team and we kind of gave it away at the end. But, I like to say, those fans that walked out … there were thousands of them … they missed a good show,” said McGrady.
They sure did.
McGrady’s closing burst seemed to come from nowhere, especially considering he had scored only 20 points on 8-of-25 shooting up to that point and had briefly went to the locker room earlier in the quarter with stomach pains.
He returned, and with 35 seconds left, hit a 26-footer to cut the San Antonio lead to 76-71.
Spurs forward Devin Brown calmly sank two free throws to seemingly put the game out of reach, but McGrady responded with perhaps his most jaw-dropping basket of the night.
http://www.bballcity.com/images/2004/tracy-mcgrady-1-med.jpg
He pump-faked Tim Duncan off his feet, leaned into him to draw contact and tossed up an off-balance 26-footer as he tumbled to the court. The shot was good, and McGrady made the free throw for a rare four-point play to pull Houston within 78-75 with 24.3 seconds to go.

“I don’t know how I got the ball up, because he’s so tall. After that shot right there, that shot really got me going so far as my confidence. Every time I came up the court (afterward) I just felt like whenever I shot it (would go in),” said McGrady
Duncan, who had a season-high seven blocks, couldn’t come up with an eighth when the Spurs needed it most.

“It was a great play,” Duncan said. “He just made tough shots.”
And McGrady wasn’t done.
Duncan hit two free throws to give San Antonio an 80-75 lead, and McGrady quickly followed with a 3-pointer over Bruce Bowen with 11.2 seconds to go.
San Antonio called a timeout to set up the last play, hoping for a foul. But Brown fumbled away the ball under the basket, and McGrady scooped it up.
As he raced down the court with his eyes focused squarely on the basket, McGrady was thinking just one thing.

“I was going to take my chances going for the 3 and go for the win,” said McGrady.
There was little doubt his running 27-foot jumper was going to go in. McGrady turned around, pumped his fist and soaked in the cheers.
San Antonio guard Tony Parker missed a final desperation heave, and McGrady was mobbed by teammates near midcourt, while red-and-white confetti poured from the roof. The Spurs watched the celebration then walked off the court in stunned silence. ” Source (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-spurs-rockets-t-macsmiraclefi&prov=ap&type=lgns)
You can also check out the highlights of his performance at youtube; video. (http://youtube.com/results?search=tracy+13&search_type=search_videos&search=Search)

http://www.bballcity.com/the-t-mac-show/

[JamStone]

So T-Mac hit three 3-pointers plus an and-one 3-pointer in 35 seconds. That is very impressive.

Rodney Rogers hit three 3-pointers in 9 seconds.

[JamStone]

Why do people keep bringing up how bad the Toronto Raptors were when Kobe scored 81 points? Kobe isn't the only great NBA player to play against shit teams. How come no one else scored 80 points on shit teams. There have been shit teams with piss poor defenses every season since the NBA started. How come no one else other than Kobe and Wilt scored over 80 points in a game?

Kobe's 81 point game might not be better than some other great performances, especially ones in the playoffs when the games matter much more. But, stop discrediting 81 points like anyone could have done it against the Toronto Raptors. The fact is, other than Kobe and Wilt, no one else did. That tells you no matter how much you think the Raptors shit team helped, it's still pretty fucking ridiculous to score 81 points in an NBA game.

[rAm]

Thanks for tha love, you my number one fan
I'll rape the shit outta your mouth even if you a man
Since you're so in love with how good my dick taste
I wanna ask right now if I can cum in your face

hahahahaha

[Reggie Miller]

Why do people keep bringing up how bad the Toronto Raptors were when Kobe scored 81 points? Kobe isn't the only great NBA player to play against shit teams. How come no one else scored 80 points on shit teams. There have been shit teams with piss poor defenses every season since the NBA started. How come no one else other than Kobe and Wilt scored over 80 points in a game?

Kobe's 81 point game might not be better than some other great performances, especially ones in the playoffs when the games matter much more. But, stop discrediting 81 points like anyone could have done it against the Toronto Raptors. The fact is, other than Kobe and Wilt, no one else did. That tells you no matter how much you think the Raptors shit team helped, it's still pretty fucking ridiculous to score 81 points in an NBA game.



I don't disagree, per se. However, don't you admit that there are other factors?

Top Five Reasons Why a Coach Might Not Let a Player Score 70+ Points

5. "Showing the other team up." Probably not the factor it once was, to be frank, but there it is. Guys used to get knocked on their asses for dunking back in the day, FWIW.

4. "We're all just a big happy family here." Well, it helps when one player isn't taking over 70% of the FGA.

3. Injury. Technically, you could probably count this twice. Playing more minutes and more intense minutes would increase the chances for a normal injury. There is also a chance you are playing a team like the Thuggets and they start targeting the high-scorer.

2. Efficiency. Odds are, if one of your players has forty points at the half, at least another one of your players is going to spend a LOT of time open from here on out. Most successful veteran players will pass out of a double or triple-team when possible.

1. Playing Time and Contract Considerations. Some players have to have the ball to get started, or they may not be any use at all if they aren't scoring. Some guys are allowed to play themselves into shape every year and need the time. Some players may need to meet certain incentives for contractual reasons, etc. There's no reason to take a flyer on a CBA guy if he's going to sit and clap for ten days.

Is scoring 81 points difficult? Hell yes. At the same time, a lot of things have to break your way. It's not a pure question of skill.

[RonMexico]

fucking wrong. it was duncan. already stated.

I'm pretty sure that was Bowen.

[Flight3107]

I'm pretty sure that was Bowen.


Wrong, it was Duncan.

[RonMexico]

Wrong, it was Duncan.

Yeah, definitely Bowen.

[Indazone]

at 0:15 mark. It was Duncan - # 21

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVMrp_gG_jg&feature=related

[TheMadHatter]

You are an idiot, and the article you quote is even more idiotic.

"Jackson did the right thing this time, because Kobe ultimately wasn't playing against the Raptors. He was playing against all the guys who never scored 80, or even 70 -- Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Dominique Wilkins, Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, Shaquille O'Neal, Jerry West, Karl Malone, Bob McAdoo, Oscar Robertson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Pete Maravich, George Gervin, Bernard King and on and on."

Since Pistol Pete is dead, I'm pretty fucking sure that Bryant was playing against the Raptors, after all. Scoring 81 points with a corpse guarding you is probably pretty easy.


"For his audience, this was not about beating the Raptors but rather the pinch-me thrill of being in the arena during the greatest individual performance of the past four decades."

Which, oddly enough, consisted of beating the buzzsaw that is the Raptors. Call me crazy, but I think you would have some pretty pissed of Laker fans if Bryant scored 81 in a loss to the Raptors.


You cannot have 46 FGA "in the flow of a game." This is a self-evident fact when sometimes entire teams don't have 46 FGA in a regulation game. It's the equivalent of shooting someone "accidentally" fifteen times, reloading, and then shooting them "accidentally" fifteen times again.

You lose all credibility the moment you say ridiculous shit like this:


"Scoring 81 points with a corpse guarding you is probably pretty easy."

There are worse defenders than Mo Pete in the NBA. Why hasn't this been done before? Why has nobody even come within 10 pts of 81? Why has there only been one player to even score over 70 outside of Kobe and Wilt?

You can't answer these questions truthfully because your a hater, plain and simple. The bottomline is 81 points is without question a more spectacular accomplishment than what T-Mac did. I can guarantee you if you polled NBA players and people who PLAY basketball that they would likely agree. Armchair quarterbacks like yourself are good for one thing and one thing only, hating.

[Flight3107]

wipe your chin off, there is still a little there.

[JamStone]

I don't disagree, per se. However, don't you admit that there are other factors?

Top Five Reasons Why a Coach Might Not Let a Player Score 70+ Points

5. "Showing the other team up." Probably not the factor it once was, to be frank, but there it is. Guys used to get knocked on their asses for dunking back in the day, FWIW.

4. "We're all just a big happy family here." Well, it helps when one player isn't taking over 70% of the FGA.

3. Injury. Technically, you could probably count this twice. Playing more minutes and more intense minutes would increase the chances for a normal injury. There is also a chance you are playing a team like the Thuggets and they start targeting the high-scorer.

2. Efficiency. Odds are, if one of your players has forty points at the half, at least another one of your players is going to spend a LOT of time open from here on out. Most successful veteran players will pass out of a double or triple-team when possible.

1. Playing Time and Contract Considerations. Some players have to have the ball to get started, or they may not be any use at all if they aren't scoring. Some guys are allowed to play themselves into shape every year and need the time. Some players may need to meet certain incentives for contractual reasons, etc. There's no reason to take a flyer on a CBA guy if he's going to sit and clap for ten days.

Is scoring 81 points difficult? Hell yes. At the same time, a lot of things have to break your way. It's not a pure question of skill.


A few points of qualification:

1. Showing up a team is more of a factor if you're on the road in front of "their" crowd. Kobe's 81 point performance was in Los Angeles in front of a home crowd that wanted PJ to keep Kobe in the game until the end.

2. Toronto was leading the game at half time by 14 points. Lakers were only up 6 points after three quarters. The game was within 10 points until about 5-6 minutes left in the fourth quarter. Kobe was only left in probably about 4-5 minutes more than he should have been at the end of the game, and at that point, it was clear that he was doing something special. The crowd knew it. Kobe's teammates knew it. Phil Jackson knew it. He was staying in for the duration at that point.

3. Kobe didn't take 70% of the team's field goal attempts. He took 52% of the team's field goal attempts. Even if you factor in the free throws, he took 54% of the team's field goal attempts. Compare that to the season averages, and he usually attempted one-third of the team's field goal attempts. While he shot way more than average, consider he shot 61% from the field, 54% from three-point range, and 90% from the free throw line. It was one of those nights. You'd be hard-pressed to find any of his teammates complain that particular game the way Kobe was playing.

4. Kobe played 42 minutes in that 81 point game. His season average for that year was 41 mpg. Injury is something that can happen at any time. Like I said already, Kobe probably stayed on the court about 4-5 minutes too long at the end of the game, but at that point, history was being made. He wasn't going to be taken out. The game was close enough through most of the second half to warrant Kobe logging heavy minutes.

5. Kobe didn't tear it up against Toronto in the first half. He had 26 points in the first half. While that's a lot, it's only about one-third of the way to 81 points. Plus the Lakers were down by 14 points at half time. Kobe took most of his shots in the second half and they were falling. He was the reason the Lakers got back in the game and eventually won it. He didn't have 40 at half. It looked lik a good opportunity for him to score 50 points, but he wasn't ballhogging in the second half through double teams and while all his teammates were wide open. Remember, this was the Toronto Raptors. They weren't too smart in reacting defensively. Kobe shot 65% from the field in the second half (17-for-26), which probably means he didn't have horrible shot selection and/or he was just that hot from the field (6-for-11 from three point range in the second half).

6. As I already intimated, playing time wasn't a factor until the last 4-5 minutes of the game, and at that point it was about writing a paragraph in NBA history. Plus the game was close enough through midway through the fourth quarter. No CBA player or a player with contract incentives took precedent to what was happening with Kobe's scoring that game, not even close. In fact, the Raptors played their regular rotation themselves for the entire game. It wasn't a blowout. 16 points is a good margin for the final score, but it wasn't a blowout.

[RonMexico]

I've been posting on this message board for over 3 years and still few people understand sarcasm. Obviously, it's Duncan... I've seen the video - in fact, I watched the event live - I just made a mistake on my first post, stretch then called me out, and so I acted like I was right despite the fact that there is AMPLE VIDEO EVIDENCE to the contrary. I don't see "SpursDynasty" or "Kill Bill Pana" next to my avatar, so through simple deduction, you can assume my moronic posts are jokes.

"OMG!! He must be a dumb asshole who can't see that Tim Duncan fouled!! Besides, everyone knows that Bruce Bowen plays such scrappy defense that no ref will ever call a foul on him anyway!!! LOL!!! Goooooo Cowboys!!!!!!!!!"

[sook]

13 points in 35 seconds is next to impossible. Everything has to happen just right, it's like one in a million. Somehow I just don't buy it that Jordan couldn't score 81 if he wanted to.

Thats what im saying, not as a rox fan but hitting 4 threes simultaneously including and and 1.

Which one would i rather do? Kobe...no1 will 4get that.

But this guy hit the nail...everything has to fall into place and it was the greatest close to a game ive ever seen

[JamStone]

Everything has to fall into place exactly for someone to hit 4 three pointers in 35 seconds, which helps support that there is much more luck involved in it than a player systematically disecting a team for 81 points. 81 points, when you know the guy is going to shoot and probably even know what he wants to do and even be in a set defense with double and triple teams, and still can't stop him.

The final 35 seconds is a mad scramble, have to get that turnover, and hurry up and shoot three pointers, where the defense is all spreadout on the perimeter at the other three point shooters. That's why a guy like Rodney Rogers can hit three 3-pointers in 9 seconds.

T-Mac's 13 points in 35 seconds might have been more off-the-edge-of-your-seat exciting. Kobe's 81 points is more impressive when you think what a player has to do, what level of play that player had to sustain for over 40 minutes of basketball, and when you figure much of it happened against a set defense instead of a mad scramble.

[Reggie Miller]

A few points of qualification:

1. Showing up a team is more of a factor if you're on the road in front of "their" crowd. Kobe's 81 point performance was in Los Angeles in front of a home crowd that wanted PJ to keep Kobe in the game until the end.

2. Toronto was leading the game at half time by 14 points. Lakers were only up 6 points after three quarters. The game was within 10 points until about 5-6 minutes left in the fourth quarter. Kobe was only left in probably about 4-5 minutes more than he should have been at the end of the game, and at that point, it was clear that he was doing something special. The crowd knew it. Kobe's teammates knew it. Phil Jackson knew it. He was staying in for the duration at that point.

3. Kobe didn't take 70% of the team's field goal attempts. He took 52% of the team's field goal attempts. Even if you factor in the free throws, he took 54% of the team's field goal attempts. Compare that to the season averages, and he usually attempted one-third of the team's field goal attempts. While he shot way more than average, consider he shot 61% from the field, 54% from three-point range, and 90% from the free throw line. It was one of those nights. You'd be hard-pressed to find any of his teammates complain that particular game the way Kobe was playing.

4. Kobe played 42 minutes in that 81 point game. His season average for that year was 41 mpg. Injury is something that can happen at any time. Like I said already, Kobe probably stayed on the court about 4-5 minutes too long at the end of the game, but at that point, history was being made. He wasn't going to be taken out. The game was close enough through most of the second half to warrant Kobe logging heavy minutes.

5. Kobe didn't tear it up against Toronto in the first half. He had 26 points in the first half. While that's a lot, it's only about one-third of the way to 81 points. Plus the Lakers were down by 14 points at half time. Kobe took most of his shots in the second half and they were falling. He was the reason the Lakers got back in the game and eventually won it. He didn't have 40 at half. It looked lik a good opportunity for him to score 50 points, but he wasn't ballhogging in the second half through double teams and while all his teammates were wide open. Remember, this was the Toronto Raptors. They weren't too smart in reacting defensively. Kobe shot 65% from the field in the second half (17-for-26), which probably means he didn't have horrible shot selection and/or he was just that hot from the field (6-for-11 from three point range in the second half).

6. As I already intimated, playing time wasn't a factor until the last 4-5 minutes of the game, and at that point it was about writing a paragraph in NBA history. Plus the game was close enough through midway through the fourth quarter. No CBA player or a player with contract incentives took precedent to what was happening with Kobe's scoring that game, not even close. In fact, the Raptors played their regular rotation themselves for the entire game. It wasn't a blowout. 16 points is a good margin for the final score, but it wasn't a blowout.

Jam Stone,

All good points, but I wasn't talking about Bryant. I was pointing out why coaches probably discourage (or even do not allow) players from scoring much above 50 points in a single game.


MadHatter,

Contrary to what most of you seem to believe, it isn't all about Kobe.

I hate Kobe Bryant. I am also a rational, intelligent human being with some sense of dignity and proportionality. It is possible to hate Kobe Bryant and to have a completely rational argument as to why 81 points in a regular season game at home against the Raptors isn't the pinnacle of basketball achievement.

Let's look at them again:

1) PPG for an individual game is a counting stat. It is context-free. Standing alone, "81" tells us nothing.

2) It's not the record; 100 points is the record. With a counting stat, you can talk about how Chamberlain's NBA was different all you want. It doesn't matter. That's why counting stats really aren't very useful.

3) Individual scoring performances in the 50-60 point range are not common, but they certainly aren't rare. Even league average players have scored over 50 points several times since 1986. After 60 points, there is an almost logarithmic progression as each point scored becomes more difficult.

This cuts both ways. Obviously, no scrub has ever scored over 60 points in a game. On the other hand, it would appear that most of your dominant players are more than capable of doing so (see: Michael Jordan, Karl Malone, David Robinson, Shaq, etc.) The question then becomes why don't they? My best answer is that the game isn't normally played that way, and coaches have considerable motivation not to go out and try that approach in every game.


I will cheerfully admit that Bryant is one of the better players in the NBA today. I will cheerfully admit that it probably isn't a coincidence that he has four 60+ point games. I will cheerfully admit that he didn't get his 81 by being a complete ball-hogging asshole.

I will not admit that 81 points in a regular season game at home against the Raptors is the greatest moment in NBA history, because it isn't. Call me a hater, call me someone who has never played (internet tough guys always think they have ESP, amazing ain't it?), call me a pinswiggling pedophile, but it doesn't somehow make 81 points in a regular season game at home against the Raptors the culmination of Jerry Buss's wonderful and holy plan for my life.

Again, Kobe fans are the most delusional people I have ever met on da interwebs. If you aren't sucking his dick, then you're a hater. Fine, I'm a hater.

[bostonguy]

O5Egcl2YXWc

The "Machine" had a performance that is on an epic level...:lmao:lmao
There should be an "other" category for this one to be in.

[dirk4mvp]

Jam Stone,

All good points, but I wasn't talking about Bryant. I was pointing out why coaches probably discourage (or even do not allow) players from scoring much above 50 points in a single game.


MadHatter,

Contrary to what most of you seem to believe, it isn't all about Kobe.

I hate Kobe Bryant. I am also a rational, intelligent human being with some sense of dignity and proportionality. It is possible to hate Kobe Bryant and to have a completely rational argument as to why 81 points in a regular season game at home against the Raptors isn't the pinnacle of basketball achievement.

Let's look at them again:

1) PPG for an individual game is a counting stat. It is context-free. Standing alone, "81" tells us nothing.

2) It's not the record; 100 points is the record. With a counting stat, you can talk about how Chamberlain's NBA was different all you want. It doesn't matter. That's why counting stats really aren't very useful.

3) Individual scoring performances in the 50-60 point range are not common, but they certainly aren't rare. Even league average players have scored over 50 points several times since 1986. After 60 points, there is an almost logarithmic progression as each point scored becomes more difficult.

This cuts both ways. Obviously, no scrub has ever scored over 60 points in a game. On the other hand, it would appear that most of your dominant players are more than capable of doing so (see: Michael Jordan, Karl Malone, David Robinson, Shaq, etc.) The question then becomes why don't they? My best answer is that the game isn't normally played that way, and coaches have considerable motivation not to go out and try that approach in every game.


I will cheerfully admit that Bryant is one of the better players in the NBA today. I will cheerfully admit that it probably isn't a coincidence that he has four 60+ point games. I will cheerfully admit that he didn't get his 81 by being a complete ball-hogging asshole.

I will not admit that 81 points in a regular season game at home against the Raptors is the greatest moment in NBA history, because it isn't. Call me a hater, call me someone who has never played (internet tough guys always think they have ESP, amazing ain't it?), call me a pinswiggling pedophile, but it doesn't somehow make 81 points in a regular season game at home against the Raptors the culmination of Jerry Buss's wonderful and holy plan for my life.

Again, Kobe fans are the most delusional people I have ever met on da interwebs. If you aren't sucking his dick, then you're a hater. Fine, I'm a hater.

Nice post, Reggie.


This last part sums it up very nice. It describes most of these stupid ass lakerfans perfectly.

[JamStone]

Jam Stone,

All good points, but I wasn't talking about Bryant. I was pointing out why coaches probably discourage (or even do not allow) players from scoring much above 50 points in a single game.


Fair enough. I read your post like it was directing a criticism of Kobe's 81 point game. But, I see what you're saying.

That said, while the points you make probably do come into play many times, I'm sure there have been several instances where they weren't factors and a player could have tried to go for as many points as possible, especially with Jordan. That's why Jordan has four 60-point games himself as well as another 25 50-point games. I'd say another guy is Allen Iverson who would have had the green light to shoot til the final buzzer and would have had no hesitation to do so. Yet, he hadn't come close to 70, much less 80 points.

There have been plenty of players that have had the opportunity to score as much as they can, and they didn't get 80. Most didn't get 70.

I agree the 81 point game in a regular season against a bad Toronto Raptors leaves the performance not as great as some others. I just don't think it's right for some people to discredit it with implications that most great NBA scorers could have done it. I don't believe most could have.

[Reggie Miller]

Fair enough. I read your post like it was directing a criticism of Kobe's 81 point game. But, I see what you're saying.

That said, while the points you make probably do come into play many times, I'm sure there have been several instances where they weren't factors and a player could have tried to go for as many points as possible, especially with Jordan. That's why Jordan has four 60-point games himself as well as another 25 50-point games. I'd say another guy is Allen Iverson who would have had the green light to shoot til the final buzzer and would have had no hesitation to do so. Yet, he hadn't come close to 70, much less 80 points.

There have been plenty of players that have had the opportunity to score as much as they can, and they didn't get 80. Most didn't get 70.

I agree the 81 point game in a regular season against a bad Toronto Raptors leaves the performance not as great as some others. I just don't think it's right for some people to discredit it with implications that most great NBA scorers could have done it. I don't believe most could have.


1. Up until now, only one guy who is NOT a no-doubt, first ballot hall of famer has ever done it. That man was Tracy McGrady, and he may very well make it into the HOF as well. Obviously, ONLY a great NBA scorer even has a shot at this. I agree; clearly, it is not easy.

2. There used to be a lot more "unwritten rules" of NBA basketball, and more than a fair share of thugs to enforce them. This was a major obstacle to the development of the game in the 1960s, and I feel pretty certain that concerns over retaliation used to play a big role. In fact, the most surprising thing to me about Wilt's 100 point game is that no one tried to cripple him for it. Well into the 1990s, there have been teams I would not try this with at home. I remember Dr. J telling stories about transitioning to the NBA, and how NBA players were constantly undercutting him for dunking on them.

3. Still, there have been more than a few head cases, ego-trippers, and Faulknerian man-children in this league over the years. Obviously, players like Chocolate Thunder or World B. Free weren't too worried about NBA etiquette and decorum. The entire "don't show the other team up" mentality can only explain so much.


Personally, I think most of your truly dominant scorers were or are capable of breaking off 80 points in a game under the right circumstances, it's just that those circumstances don't come around very often. The key there is identifying the truly dominant talents. I'm talking about less than 20 guys, just to give some sort of frame of reference.

[lefty]

Jordan's 54 pts /or / Reggie Miller's 25 4th quarter points (shooting 100%) / or 8 pts with a few seconds left / or/ Isiaiah's 16 pts in the last 1:30 (all performances vs Knicks :lol)

Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy superior to Kobe's 81.

Because they happened in big playoff games against good defensive teams, while Kobe scored 81 pts in a meaningless (for both teams) regular season game, against a crappy defensive team

[dirk4mvp]

I'd put money on Kobe not being able to do what Lebron did.

[Dex]

I haven't read through all of these posts, but 21-20-10-8 better be getting some frickin love in here.

I mean, it was ONLY a championship clinching Finals Game 6.

I know it's not as spectacular because it's just Duncan being Duncan....but if he had nailed that quad-double, you would HAVE to put it on this list.

[Reggie Miller]

Kobe on the other hand, never brought the ball up court, he never called his own number. The team ran the triangle offense, and unlike the other sorry players that were playing with Kobe, none of them took their open shots. They all passed up shots to get the ball around to Kobe. Laker fans got tired of seeing Kobe have to bail the team out because other players were too afraid to shoot wide open shots. Kobe got his within the flow of the offense... Period.


You have your head so far up Bryant's ass it isn't even funny. Look at what you have written.

If a player passes up a wide-open shot to defer to someone else, THAT IS NOT WITHIN THE FLOW OF THE OFFENSE.

You are delusional. I never called Bryant a ballhog. I am merely stating the obvious: you can't score 81 points "within the flow of the offense." It's ridiculous on its face.

I'm a hater, all right. I hate cretins like you.

[JamStone]

I'd put money on Kobe not being able to do what Lebron did.

LeBron scored 29 of Cleveland's last 30 points in that game 5 of the 2007 ECF.

Kobe scored 27 of the Lakers 42 third quarter points in the game where he scored 81 points.

LeBron scored those 29 points on 11-for-13 field goal shooting in the final 16:05 minutes.

After missing his first two shots of the quarter, Kobe scored his 27 points on 11-for-13 field goal shooting in the remaining 10 minutes and 42 seconds of that third quarter.


LeBron:
29 points
11-for-13 FG
3-for-6 FT
2-for-2 3PT
16:05 minutes

Kobe:
27 points
11-for-13 FG
1-for-1 FT
4-for-4 3PT
10:42 minutes

Plus the Cleveland Cavaliers were going back and forth with the Pistons, and during most of that stretched were up by a few points. When Kobe first started off in that 28 point quarter, the Lakers were down 14 points. By the end of the quarter, they were up 6 points. So, while LeBron was going at it back and forth with the Pistons, Kobe was digging his team out of a double digit deficit.

I realize that Kobe had a couple teammates that scored in that stretched, but you can't fault a player for having teammates that shot the ball better during a stretch. And, I also realize that LeBron's performance was in a conference finals game while Kobe's performance was in a January regular season game. But, that third quarter proves Kobe is more than capable of doing such a feat. If you consider how he's been able to perform under pressure on the biggest stages in the playoffs, there's really no reason to think he couldn't do something similar to what LeBron did.

Having said that, he hasn't, not in the playoffs. But, I think it's foolish to say Kobe isn't able to do it.

[lefty]

LeBron scored 29 of Cleveland's last 30 points in that game 5 of the 2007 ECF.

Kobe scored 27 of the Lakers 42 third quarter points in the game where he scored 81 points.

LeBron scored those 29 points on 11-for-13 field goal shooting in the final 16:05 minutes.

After missing his first two shots of the quarter, Kobe scored his 27 points on 11-for-13 field goal shooting in the remaining 10 minutes and 42 seconds of that third quarter.


LeBron:
29 points
11-for-13 FG
3-for-6 FT
2-for-2 3PT
16:05 minutes

Kobe:
27 points
11-for-13 FG
1-for-1 FT
4-for-4 3PT
10:42 minutes

Plus the Cleveland Cavaliers were going back and forth with the Pistons, and during most of that stretched were up by a few points. When Kobe first started off in that 28 point quarter, the Lakers were down 14 points. By the end of the quarter, they were up 6 points. So, while LeBron was going at it back and forth with the Pistons, Kobe was digging his team out of a double digit deficit.

I realize that Kobe had a couple teammates that scored in that stretched, but you can't fault a player for having teammates that shot the ball better during a stretch. And, I also realize that LeBron's performance was in a conference finals game while Kobe's performance was in a January regular season game. But, that third quarter proves Kobe is more than capable of doing such a feat. If you consider how he's been able to perform under pressure on the biggest stages in the playoffs, there's really no reason to think he couldn't do something similar to what LeBron did.

Having said that, he hasn't, not in the playoffs. But, I think it's foolish to say Kobe isn't able to do it.

Lebron did it against against the Detroit Pistons in the ECF
Kobe did it against a then crappy team in a meaningless game

[Obstructed_View]

Actually, that wasn't a closer game. It was a blowout by the middle of the 3rd.
Yeah, that's right. Something about that seemed wrong when I typed it.

[JamStone]

Ok, how about Kobe's 30 point third quarter against the Utah Jazz in 2006 when he shot 9-for-9 from the field, including 2-for-2 from three point range, and 10-for-10 from the free throw line, against a Utah Jazz team that won the NW division that season, had an aggressive defense and a very good perimeter defender in AK-47, and a coach who would make sure his players would put a guy on his ass for killing them offensively.

My point isn't that Kobe's performance is better than LeBron's. It's that he's capable of doing something like that offensively.

[sook]

I would also like to POINT OUT that during that stretch didn't Kobe like a break a record for most 50 point games in a week or something? I'm not really a Kobe fan but i think he did.



Anyways tmac had a 62 point game as well, not close to 81, but closer than most

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b1oAC_pq8Q



Btw Reggie Miller made some great points i never thought about before, Kudos to you :toast

[TheMadHatter]

I can't take a guy seriously who admits that he hates Kobe Bryant. You posting in this thread Reggie Miller and expecting people to take you seriously is like me asking a KKK member his opinion on civil rights.

[stretch]

My point isn't that Kobe's performance is better than LeBron's. It's that he's capable of doing something like that offensively.

no your point is that you love to hate on lebron

[stretch]

I can't take a guy seriously who admits that he hates Kobe Bryant. You posting in this thread Reggie Miller and expecting people to take you seriously is like me asking a KKK member his opinion on civil rights.

its hard to take a guy seriously that posts pictures where it looks like ron artest has a big cock hanging out

[TheMadHatter]

its hard to take a guy seriously that posts pictures where it looks like ron artest has a big cock hanging out

You're either blind or incredibly stupid. Probably both.

[JamStone]

no your point is that you love to hate on lebron

Lol. In the other poll thread, which included Kobe's 81 point game:


But of the choices, I choose LeBron's performance. Just slightly edging out Duncan's near quad-triple.

I didn't even give Kobe's 81 point game second among the choices.

[Dex]

Duncan dominated that guy but 21 points is nothing in this league... espeically for a guy like Duncan, but that is defintely on of the best all around performances ever

Fair enough.

It's hard to call it spectacular because even I barely noticed him racking it up. I just remember you looked up at the end of the game and he was chasing a Quad Dub.

Definitely dominance, no matter how you wanna stack it.

[Reggie Miller]

I can't take a guy seriously who admits that he hates Kobe Bryant. You posting in this thread Reggie Miller and expecting people to take you seriously is like me asking a KKK member his opinion on civil rights.

I can't take a guy seriously who has been here two months to my four years and has no fucking clue what he is talking about. I am the biggest critic of my own team on the entire site.

Unlike your typical Californian sheeple, I am actually capable of at least a little critical thought. I am a Pacers' fan. Of course I hate Kobe Bryant. Do I need to draw you a picture? All Pacers' fans hate Bryant and Shaq.

The question is: do I let that color my opinion of his ability? I think not.

Whether I am right or wrong, what is your brilliant counterpoint? I am a "hater." If I had a dime for every time some asshole Laker fan called someone a "hater" for daring to criticize Saint Bryant the Blessed, I could retire today.

The problem is that California conditions weak-minded people to swallow whatever crap is handed to them. See: immigration issues, firearms ownership, income tax rate, etc. When someone makes a rational argument to the contrary, all the Californian can do is shout "racist," "jingoist," or whatever.

Trust me, it's quite possible to think that Bryant is the biggest piece of smegma on the planet, while still not underestimating his talent. Phil Jackson has been doing it for years...

[Reggie Miller]

Are you a girl? No serious. Most men dont show those type of emotions of hate when talking about Sports. I apologize to any females but this guys estrogen seems to be running high:lol

lakaluva's counterpoints to my arguments:

1. Calling me a "faggot."

2. Calling me a "girl."


Mad Hatter's counterpoints to my arguments:

1. Implying I am a racist.

2. Assuming I have no objectivity.


Keep it up. Pretty soon you might even stumble onto the vaunted "I'm rubber and you're glue" defense.

[JamStone]

This is why I hate being a Kobe fan on here. Because of the Kobe cock suckers, it's near impossible for me to come off as just a Kobe (the player) fan without appearing to be an apologist or a biased Kobe sucker myself.

[Reggie Miller]

I would also like to POINT OUT that during that stretch didn't Kobe like a break a record for most 50 point games in a week or something? I'm not really a Kobe fan but i think he did.



Anyways tmac had a 62 point game as well, not close to 81, but closer than most

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b1oAC_pq8Q



Btw Reggie Miller made some great points i never thought about before, Kudos to you :toast


Thank you.

This talk has made me start to think a little about TMac's HOF candidacy. I think he has a decent shot if he can ever escape the "first round" stigma. I wouldn't have given him much of a shot before they inducted Dominique Wilkins.

[ShoogarBear]

I don't see "SpursDynasty" or "Kill Bill Pana" next to my avatar

That can be fixed.

[ShoogarBear]

We are all in agreement that LeBron's 29/30 >>>> everything, though, right?

[RonMexico]

That can be fixed.

I wasn't making a request. But I'm pretty sure my sarcasm was easily noted by the intelligent.

[Reggie Miller]

We are all in agreement that LeBron's 29/30 >>>> everything, though, right?

Oscar Robertson averaging a triple-double for an entire season is pretty damn impressive by any standard.

LeBron's 29/30 is way up there, though.

[JamStone]

Oscar Robertson averaging a triple-double for an entire season is pretty damn impressive by any standard.

LeBron's 29/30 is way up there, though.


Interesting thing about Oscar Robertson, while he didn't actually average a triple double in his second and third seasons, they were very close, and if you took all of his numbers combined his first three seasons and averaged them out, he actually averaged a triple double through his first three seasons in the league.

[ShoogarBear]

Yeah, for purposes of this discussion I think we're limiting to single-game performances.

Otherwise, I'd say 11 championships in 13 seasons rules all.

[Reggie Miller]

Interesting thing about Oscar Robertson, while he didn't actually average a triple double in his second and third seasons, they were very close, and if you took all of his numbers combined his first three seasons and averaged them out, he actually averaged a triple double through his first three seasons in the league.

You da man. I finally learned something new today! :toast

[TheMadHatter]

I don't know if any good discussion has come from this thread.

All I see is a bunch of Kobe haters having their little circle jerk trying to shit on him scoring 81 pts. I can't wait until the Lakers win a ring, what the fuck will you little maggots have to say then.

"KOBE CAN'T WIN A RING BY HIMSELF......oh shit......well Kobe can't win without Bynum". Losers.

[Reggie Miller]

I don't know if any good discussion has come from this thread.

All I see is a bunch of Kobe haters having their little circle jerk trying to shit on him scoring 81 pts. I can't wait until the Lakers win a ring, what the fuck will you little maggots have to say then.

"KOBE CAN'T WIN A RING BY HIMSELF......oh shit......well Kobe can't win without Bynum". Losers.

Once again, I will try to spell it out for the environmentally retarded (Californians and Laker fans).

Our sun, often referred to as Sol, is the center of our system. Not Bryant. Not O'Neal. Not even Magic. If Bryant ever wins another championship, great for him. The sun will continue to rise and set on schedule.

EDIT: This is why Kobe fans are such a joke. Bryant is "winning" the poll, but since we do not have universal acclamation and fellatio, the forum is populated by "haters." I'll let you in on a little secret. Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, and Bill Russell all have their detractors. Welcome to the wild world outside of your narrow horizons.

[dirk4mvp]

I don't know if any good discussion has come from this thread.




There has been a lot of good discussion in this thread. You're just being too much of a blind homer and any criticism of Kobe to all you Kobe cocksuckers means nothing good is being discussed because his cock isn't firmly in everyone else's mouth.

[Ill Cosby]

When you play for the Lakers, are a ball hogg, cry baby, playin' against the Raptors and already a pretty good player.......100 ain't that impressive

I'm not even impressed about Wilt doin it

TMAC gets my vote

[TheMadHatter]

All I see is pathetic attempts by Kobe Haters (aka every Mav fan alive) trying to say Tmac's sub 1 minute scoring outburst was better than an 81pt masterpiece that Kobe carved up. Pure lunacy.

I dare anyone on this forum to post this exact topic on the General Board of RealGM. Let's see the responses.

[IronMexican]

How fucking dead does ST have to be for this thing to get 7 pages?

[Reggie Miller]

All I see is pathetic attempts by Kobe Haters (aka every Mav fan alive) trying to say Tmac's sub 1 minute scoring outburst was better than an 81pt masterpiece that Kobe carved up. Pure lunacy.

I dare anyone on this forum to post this exact topic on the General Board of RealGM. Let's see the responses.


You do understand that no one dunked regularly in the NBA before the ABA merger, right?

You do understand that rate statistics are more important than counting statistics, right?

You do understand that long before Saint Bryant the Blessed descended upon this fragile orb that we mere mortals played a puny imitation of the game now known as "basketball*," right?


* Although few now remember it, the peach baskets were removed late in 1995 to honor the Advent of Saint Bryan the Blessed. They only LOOK like nets on your CGI doctored DVDs.

[Roxsfan]

13 points in 35 seconds is next to impossible. Everything has to happen just right, it's like one in a million. Somehow I just don't buy it that Jordan couldn't score 81 if he wanted to.

OMG, I actually agree with you:wow

[Roxsfan]

Oh Im sorry, that was on your beloved Dallas Maggots. You guys were suppose to win it all that year huh. Hey, did you see the look on Cubans face when that guy blew that layup...




lol predictable



He's dogging the mavs for not winning that year, ummm I think the lakers were "supposed to" win last year too:rolleyes:lmao

[dirk4mvp]

All I see is pathetic attempts by Kobe Haters (aka every Mav fan alive) trying to say Tmac's sub 1 minute scoring outburst was better than an 81pt masterpiece that Kobe carved up. Pure lunacy.

I dare anyone on this forum to post this exact topic on the General Board of RealGM. Let's see the responses.


so is kobe's 81 the best performance of all time?

[Reggie Miller]

I'm still waiting for a Laker fan to address this:

It is possible to think that Kobe Bryant is a worthless piece of shit as a human being, yet full appreciate his talent. See: Phil Jackson, the Buss family, et ux.

[Roxsfan]

Everything has to fall into place exactly for someone to hit 4 three pointers in 35 seconds, which helps support that there is much more luck involved in it than a player systematically disecting a team for 81 points. 81 points, when you know the guy is going to shoot and probably even know what he wants to do and even be in a set defense with double and triple teams, and still can't stop him.

The final 35 seconds is a mad scramble, have to get that turnover, and hurry up and shoot three pointers, where the defense is all spreadout on the perimeter at the other three point shooters. That's why a guy like Rodney Rogers can hit three 3-pointers in 9 seconds.

T-Mac's 13 points in 35 seconds might have been more off-the-edge-of-your-seat exciting. Kobe's 81 points is more impressive when you think what a player has to do, what level of play that player had to sustain for over 40 minutes of basketball, and when you figure much of it happened against a set defense instead of a mad scramble.


Kobe's 80 points just means that the rest of the Lakers and their Dleague opponent sucked the big one.

Tmac's 13 in 33 seconds will NEVER happen again.......EVER. And it certainly will never end in one of the 3 s winning the game...in a kind of walk off fashion against a definsively great team that has won 4 of these :lobt:
It is conceivable though, that someone could be a great player on a shit team playing a shittier team and end up with 80 in a few years:downspin:

[TheMadHatter]

This thread isn't about Kobe's personal life or his character. It isn't even about his career really. It's about one game of basketball he played vs. less than one minute of basketball T-Mac played.

Like I said, someone post this topic on RealGM and let's see the responses. Kobe's 81 vs. T'Mac's 13 in 35. Nobody will do it because nobody here wants to admit that they are just plain Kobe haters. The average fan, NBA player, and basketball enthusiast will almost unanimously agree that Kobe's 81 pt game was far and away a more difficult, incredible, and spectacular feat than T-Mac scoring 13 in 35.

[IronMexican]

I hate real gm.

[Roxsfan]

This thread isn't about Kobe's personal life or his character. It isn't even about his career really. It's about one game of basketball he played vs. less than one minute of basketball T-Mac played.

Like I said, someone post this topic on RealGM and let's see the responses. Kobe's 81 vs. T'Mac's 13 in 35.

The KEY here is highlighted....The game that HE played. See, when the other 4 players on your team suck ass and your opponent(especially the corpse guarding you) sucks ass it is no more spectacular than a 12 year old scoring 67 in a pick up game against 5 year olds:lmao

TMAC's 13 in 33 seconds to win a game in walk off fashion will NEVER happen again......EVER. Want to bet on it:lmao

[Roxsfan]

Another out of touch fan. The Laker were not "suppose" to win last year. Everyone in Laker land and the rest of the league thought Kobe would be traded. No one knew Gasol would get gift wrapped to the Lakers. The Lakers were the surprise team of the entire league last year, and the media jumped on the Laker band wagon late in the year. Dallas is a disgrace of a team... always have been... and Houston is not far behind:toast

Oh, and arent you guys "suppose" to get out of the first round this year?:lol

I've just added this to favorites, I will bump when the rockets beat the shit out of your fakeShow.....:lmao

http://web54.fortrabbit.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/favicon-browser.jpg

you can rationalize all you want that the lakers overachieved, but you and other lake fans were here talking shit and the celts beat your asses so bad, you guys were not even competitive.:lmao

To the league:
Houston IS your problem

[Roxsfan]

It was a meaningless game early in the season and the Spurs had went to sleep on the Rockets. The Spurs practically gift wrapped that game to the Rockets. If anything, people should be shocked at the epic failure of the Spurs in that game as opposed to the habitual career choking Tmac.

:sleep

[Reggie Miller]

This thread isn't about Kobe's personal life or his character. It isn't even about his career really. It's about one game of basketball he played vs. less than one minute of basketball T-Mac played.

Like I said, someone post this topic on RealGM and let's see the responses. Kobe's 81 vs. T'Mac's 13 in 35. Nobody will do it because nobody here wants to admit that they are just plain Kobe haters. The average fan, NBA player, and basketball enthusiast will almost unanimously agree that Kobe's 81 pt game was far and away a more difficult, incredible, and spectacular feat than T-Mac scoring 13 in 35.

You made it an issue. After being accused of being a "hater" after some perfectly rational observations, I admitted that I hated the guy as a person in the interests of full disclosure.

Please address any one of the following at your earliest convenience:

1. Physical play has not existed in the NBA during Bryant's career. People no longer get undercut, hacked, and tripped just for dunking or "showboating."

2. Every rule change and rule emphasis during Bryant's career has favored perimeter play.

3. Counting statistics simply tally events in isolation. Rate and efficiency statisitcs attempt to address the cost/benefit analysis required to evaluate an individual in a team sport. I'll spell it out: one ball < five players on the court. Hell, I'll spell it out in a way that even a Laker fan can understand. 2004 Pistons > 2004 Lakers.

[Roxsfan]

I have a hard time taking you serious, but just in case you do stick around... Ive added it to my favorites also. No excuses ok. Injuries happen to every team so suck it up.

wow, I'm threatened.:lmao

too bad you Won't have courtside tickets to get a Jack Nicholson-view of the Rocket beatdown your fakeshow will endure.........

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pg3/2004/0505/photo/jack_195.jpg

[TMAC-YAO-ARTEST]

wow, I'm threatened.:lmao

too bad you Won't have courtside tickets to get a Jack Nicholson-view of the Rocket beatdown your fakeshow will endure.........

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pg3/2004/0505/photo/jack_195.jpg

watch out, he's putting you in favorites and already taking away your injury-excuse........watch out:lmao:sleep

Like we can control injuries.......

Aren't all predictions based on a team being healthy, what a dweeb:lmao

btw, I stole part of your sig:toast

[Trainwreck2100]

I've just added this to favorites, I will bump when the rockets beat the shit out of your fakeShow.....:lmao

http://web54.fortrabbit.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/favicon-browser.jpg

you can rationalize all you want that the lakers overachieved, but you and other lake fans were here talking shit and the celts beat your asses so bad, you guys were not even competitive.:lmao

To the league:
Houston IS your problem

You don't need to favorite it, if you go to thread tools, just click "suscribe to thread" and then it will be saved in your control panel

[Reggie Miller]

wow, I'm threatened.:lmao

too bad you Won't have courtside tickets to get a Jack Nicholson-view of the Rocket beatdown your fakeshow will endure.........

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pg3/2004/0505/photo/jack_195.jpg

Being the girl=faggot I am, these internet tough guys have me clutching my S&W Ladysmith in abject terror... I hope I don't accidentally shoot myself in the uterus.

[TMAC-YAO-ARTEST]

I mean this: Thanks for helping kill the offseason blues:wakeup

[TheMadHatter]

There is nothing funnier than a Rocket fan trying to talk shit.

[TMAC-YAO-ARTEST]

Not if you are the Lakers. See thats the beauty of being a Laker fan. We suffer major Injuries and still steam roll to the championship (Magic '79, Kobe, Ariza, Bynum '08), like I said, no excuses.

Bynum took you to a championship?

Go ahead and tell me what happens to the lakers if they lose Kobe for the entire postseason.........You sir are a homer..........fuck:bang

[TMAC-YAO-ARTEST]

There is nothing funnier than a Rocket fan trying to talk shit.

yeah there is, a fake-show fan trying to be cool......pl stfu.

[TMAC-YAO-ARTEST]

Come on man, stop being a little sissy. You fucking fans from these losing teams are ultr-sensitive. Its just sports talk man. And no I wont be at that game... I only go to the big games like when we play the Spurs, Suns, Cavs... you know, the teams that stick around in the playoffs.

:sleep

[TMAC-YAO-ARTEST]

Damn I feel like Im playing chess by myself here. Nothing in my post leads you to believe that I said Bynum lead us to a title. All I said was he was one of the three main players on our team that was injured last year during our title run... and even still Laker fans were no making excuses.

:sleep

good night.

[TheMadHatter]

Wow that's how you argue effectively, throw out the snore emoticon. Not only are you Rocket fans delusional, you're moronic.

I can take shit talking from Mav fans, they like to stir the pot and I play along. They are actually funny every once in a while.

But Rocket fan brings nothing to the table. No, we don't care about your usual pre-season hype because we all know what it amounts to in the playoffs......1st round exits.

[Indazone]

Here is a list of NBA players who have scored 70 or more pts. Kobe is 2nd all time. Wilt Chamberlin's as a player was off the charts. When I see how many times a player has gone into the 70's in a game, I think that we will see this feat again. It's not a stretch to see someone score over 80 pts again in a game. Now T-Mac's game where he scores 13 pts in 35 seconds...I will go so far as to say that you will never see it again in our lifetime. So many things had to go perfectly in order for him to do it that it's off the charts in probability.

Wilt Chamberlain 100 pts against Knicks
Kobe Bryant 81 pts against Raptors
Wilt Chamberlain 78 pts against Lakers
Wilt Chamberlain 73 pts against Chicago Packers
Wilt Chamberlain 73 pts against Knicks
David Thompson 73 pts against Pistons * Same night George Gervin scores 63 pts.
Wilt Chamberlain 72 pts against Lakers
Elgin Baylor 71 pts against Knicks
David Robinson 71 pts against Clippers
Wilt Chamberlain 70 pts against Syracuse Nationals

[angelbelow]

both are impressive but tmacs game was against us so im compelled to vote for tmac.

[Roxsfan]

Wow that's how you argue effectively, throw out the snore emoticon. Not only are you Rocket fans delusional, you're moronic.

I can take shit talking from Mav fans, they like to stir the pot and I play along. They are actually funny every once in a while.

But Rocket fan brings nothing to the table. No, we don't care about your usual pre-season hype because we all know what it amounts to in the playoffs......1st round exits.

you sound like a broken record, bitch. Your lakers are going to get a dose of reality when they play the rockets.

[Reggie Miller]

Is your television warped or are you that bias???

7V8ZukXsWmk

In your second question you miserably fail to mention that all those rule changes that were added to favor the perimeter play was because of Jordan himself. Hand checking and hard fouls were perfectly fine in this league until the league saw fit to start calling touch fouls to save its "PRECIOUS MJ." I'll spell it out for you... Jordan got more calls in his favor than any player in the history of any sport! And even still, allowing teams to zone up against slashers like Kobe outweighs those rule changes you mention. Can you imagine how hard it would have been playing against Detroit and New York back then allowing zone defenses!

And I agree with your third statement.

1. What Bell did is an aberration in today's NBA. That sort of takedown happened often in regular season NBA and ABA games thirty years ago. It wasn't even that newsworthy in Bird's days. Having all games televised ended a lot of that crap.

For the record, I'm not some sort of Cro Magnon in favor of laying people out on the court. However, it happened a LOT in the old NBA. I am only 37, and I have personally witnessed quite a few pro basketball "fights." That's why people didn't dunk in the '60s. Some people today act like those poor white stiffs in short-shorts just couldn't muster the effort. That's not why!

2. To a degree, Michael Jordan is a creation of the media and NBA machinery. I won't argue with that. Bryant benefits from the same hype the player mentality. Surely you wouldn't argue that, either.

Actually, MJ just accelerated the trend away from the "butcher's block" of the 1960's. Pretty much all rule changes in the NBA after the addition of the shot clock could be interpreted as directed against players like Chamberlain. Obviously, the same changes benefit perimeter and wing players. (I'm not saying that a lot of these weren't motivated by Jordan, but the league has been penalizing bigs for a long, long time.)

As I've discussed and analyzed here before, I think this was inevitable in any case. There just aren't nearly enough skilled big men to go around.

3. I am honestly glad that we agree on something.



.

[Ill Cosby]

13 points in 35 seconds is next to impossible. Everything has to happen just right, it's like one in a million. Somehow I just don't buy it that Jordan couldn't score 81 if he wanted to.

Mike was busy winning championships

[sook]

This thread isn't about Kobe's personal life or his character. It isn't even about his career really. It's about one game of basketball he played vs. less than one minute of basketball T-Mac played.

Like I said, someone post this topic on RealGM and let's see the responses. Kobe's 81 vs. T'Mac's 13 in 35. Nobody will do it because nobody here wants to admit that they are just plain Kobe haters. The average fan, NBA player, and basketball enthusiast will almost unanimously agree that Kobe's 81 pt game was far and away a more difficult, incredible, and spectacular feat than T-Mac scoring 13 in 35.
I never understood why everyone thought Kobe fans were the filth and scum of the NBA fans. You guys are delusional and cock hoppers 24/7.


Everything Reggie M. said was true i feel incredibly sorry for you, look at the poll and decide what most of the people think. Just because every single person doesn't feel about it the same way you do doesn't give you the right to call them "Fags" or "haters", you are just incapable of formulating and argument because you drink Kobe's piss.:rollin

[BUMP]

the more spectacular performance obviously has to be Bryant's. you can look at the box score or you can actually look at the game and see how one man literally had the game in his hands as evidenced by bringing his team back. i understand McGrady did the same thing, but that over a course of less than a minute, and he only hit four shots, cmon. impressive, but there is a little luck involved

[TheMadHatter]

the more spectacular performance obviously has to be Bryant's. you can look at the box score or you can actually look at the game and see how one man literally had the game in his hands as evidenced by bringing his team back. i understand McGrady did the same thing, but that over a course of less than a minute, and he only hit four shots, cmon. impressive, but there is a little luck involved

BUMP said it best. There is no luck involved in scoring 81 fucking points. That's downright domination and mastery of the game right there.

13 in 35 seconds with 4 shots. That involves way more luck than actual talent.

If you can't understand this you are either a Rocket fan or an idiot.

[Indazone]

They are both great performances...and I would have given the nod to Kobe had he broken the Big Dipper's record. But T-Mac's performance over the eventual NBA champions was just amazing. One that you won't see ever again to pull out the win. Ask yourselves, what do most teams do down 7 pts with 33 seconds to go?

The guard dribbles out the ball and they shake hands end of game.

There is one other performance that I find amazing in this same vein.

Reggie Miller's

McGrady’s amazing display inevitably brought back memories of Reggie Miller’s career-defining moment against the New York Knicks in Game 1 of the Eastern Conference semifinals in 1995. Miller scored eight straight points in the final 8.9 seconds of Indiana’s 107-105 win.

:toast

[The Franchise]

BUMP said it best. There is no luck involved in scoring 81 fucking points. That's downright domination and mastery of the game right there.

13 in 35 seconds with 4 shots. That involves way more luck than actual talent.

If you can't understand this you are either a Rocket fan or an idiot.

The thread didn't say who was more lucky it said which was more spectacular. Please read and understand before you comment. Someone else has done what Kobe did. As a matter of fact he did it by 20 more points. No one has done what T mac did. It was more spectacular, and did take a little skill.

[sook]

BUMP said it best. There is no luck involved in scoring 81 fucking points. That's downright domination and mastery of the game right there.

13 in 35 seconds with 4 shots. That involves way more luck than actual talent.

If you can't understand this you are either a Rocket fan or an idiot.

By your logic every clutch shot ever made was lucky.

To say that 4 consecutive 3s, including a near impossible and1 where duncan is slung over tmac is luck is some real bullshit.


Everything has to be right.

Lets say his 3pt% was around .3 that yr.

(.3) ^4 = .0081 or .81% chance of that happening.


Its not that he just made 4 threes. It was probably the greatest close to a game that anyone had ever seen, as the announcers put it.

Let it go through your mind, you score 10 pts and your down with like 10 secs to go. Devin Brown falls and you get the steal, just a couple of seconds left, all miraculous threes you made just before would be negated if you missed this shot...you run down the court pull up and drain it 1 sec before the buzzer.

That had people going WTF.


I would rather do what Kobe did, because that is what would be rmbrd more, but 13 in 33 is a lot harder to do. Proof...? Because 13 is what a star would score in a half/ overall 26 pts lets say, and he did in half a minute. :rolleyes


What someone can do when it matters most is what makes b-ball so much more entertaining.

MJ scoring the bull's last 4 pts to beat jazz in 98` in itself earns one of the most legendary performances.

[TheMadHatter]

By any metric you want to choose, scoring 81 points in a game is far and away more spectacular than scoring 13 in 35 seconds.

Scoring 81 points in a single game is HARDER to do than getting hot from 3pt land and nailing some 3's at the end of the game, which is exactly what T-Mac did. As JamStone pointed out earlier, Rodney Rogers hit three 3's in 9 seconds. Who the fuck is Rodney Rogers? Nobody has scored 70-100 points that wasn't a first ballot HOF player. Proof positive that not only is it more difficult to score 80 points in one game, it can only be achieved by the best of the best.

If you can't understand how skilled of a player you have to be to score 81 points against NBA caliber players in a single game you are either an idiot or a Rockette fan. It takes way more than just being "ON". You have to be capable of defeating defenses all by yourself. You have to have that talent to even approach 80 points.

[sook]

By any metric you want to choose, scoring 81 points in a game is far and away more spectacular than scoring 13 in 35 seconds.

Scoring 81 points in a single game is HARDER to do than getting hot from 3pt land and nailing some 3's at the end of the game, which is exactly what T-Mac did. As JamStone pointed out earlier, Rodney Rogers hit three 3's in 9 seconds. Who the fuck is Rodney Rogers? Nobody has scored 70-100 points that wasn't a first ballot HOF player. Proof positive that not only is it more difficult to score 80 points in one game, it can only be achieved by the best of the best.

If you can't understand how skilled of a player you have to be to score 81 points against NBA caliber players in a single game you are either an idiot or a Rockette fan. It takes way more than just being "ON". You have to be capable of defeating defenses all by yourself. You have to have that talent to even approach 80 points.

rodney rogers didn't hit them during the last 30 secs of a game.

Just like its a lot harder to drain a jumper at the buzzer. Someone has already scored a 100. Apart from Reggie's incredible performance where he had like 8 points in 10 secs this has never been done before.

[TheMadHatter]

That "someone" was Wilt Chamberlain you dumbshit, arguably the best big men to ever play in the NBA. Damn you Rockette fans are retarded.

[sook]

That "someone" was Wilt Chamberlain you dumbshit, arguably the best big men to ever play in the NBA. Damn you Rockette fans are retarded.

Judging by your knowledge and your crappy insults I'm going to say you just started watching the NBA like 2 yrs ago and Kobe's cock was too much to resist, or Ron Artest's for that matter.

Wilt was not the best bigman to ever play in the NBA, you should seriously go shoot yourself right now kid. Your lack of knowledge of the NBA is comical.
Reading your responses to Reggie Mil it has already been concluded that you are a dumbass and the best responses you can come up with is that someone "Hater." Get your head out of your ass the NBA doesn't revolve around Kobe.


Btw its Rocket, not Rockette, don't they teach how to spell in your piss smelling LA school?




And just for your response, it doesn't matter who did it, its already been done. Thats why they have a record book and not 2nd or 3rd record book.

[JamStone]

rodney rogers didn't hit them during the last 30 secs of a game.

Yes he did. It was during the last 30 seconds of the game. He hit three 3-pointers in nine seconds. February 8, 1994, Denver Nuggets against Utah Jazz.

[BUMP]

rodney rogers didn't hit them during the last 30 secs of a game.

Just like its a lot harder to drain a jumper at the buzzer. Someone has already scored a 100. Apart from Reggie's incredible performance where he had like 8 points in 10 secs this has never been done before.

Rodney Rogers three threes in nine seconds was never done before, who remembers that shit? they are cool to watch, but they involve a little luck and i wouldnt call them "spectacular performances"

[TheMadHatter]

How spectacular a performance is has no correlation with the likelihood or probability of it occurring again. Think about it.

Some schmuck may hit 4 half court shots in a game and that feat may never be repeated in all of the history. Does that make it more spectacular than someone who scored a triple double in that same game? I don't think so.

[Roxsfan]

How spectacular a performance is has no correlation with the likelihood or probability of it occurring again. Think about it.

Some schmuck may hit 4 half court shots in a game and that feat may never be repeated in all of the history. Does that make it more spectacular than someone who scored a triple double in that same game? I don't think so.


Kobe was the best player on a shit team, playing a shittier team--that is not as impressive to me as 13 in 35 against a defensive force like the spurs...........

[Showtime24 LAKERS]

I dont really care who had more of the "epic" performace and what not..all i know is that Kobe is 100 times better than Tmac now and ever!! it'd be a huge accomplishment for tmac to get out of the first round as for now.

[BUMP]

81 points is 81 points i dont care how you cut it. Tracy's doesnt even compare. all this talk about how it was against the champs is a desperate attempt to boost the accomplishment. it was only 13 points, 902376847682768974867863728 players have scored over 13 points in a game. only 1 has scored more than 81. i dont care if it was against the Champs, does that make Dirk Nowitski's performance against the Spurs in game 7 better than Kobe's 81? exactly.

[/thread]

[Indazone]

I dunno, I think this is like saying who's more impressive, the guy who shot a 66 and 12 under at a major golf tournament and crushed the rest of the field or the guy who shot a hole in one at a major golf tournament to win in sudden death and by the way, shot another hole in one just to make the tournament into a sudden death contest.

[JamStone]

I dunno, I think this is like saying who's more impressive, the guy who shot a 66 and 12 under at a major golf tournament and crushed the rest of the field or the guy who shot a hole in one at a major golf tournament to win in sudden death and by the way, shot another hole in one just to make the tournament into a sudden death contest.


Not a bad comparison but certainly not right on. Getting a hole in one is something like a million to one chance. Getting two in the same tournament might be something that may never, ever be done. There have been other players that have done something very similar to T-Mac's 13 point performance. If golf is the analogy, T-Mac's performance is more like a guy birdying three of the final four holes and a hole in one on the other hole (the 17th pin), and then getting an easy birdie putt to win it in sudden death.

The hole in one is more analogous to the four point play in that it's extremely rare. While T-Mac's other three pointers were difficult by varying degrees, they weren't one-in-a-million type shots, not even the one with Bowen on him at the top of the key. The last three pointer had a little more pressure involved, but still more like a great iron shot for an easy birdie on a par 3 than a hole in one shot.

At any rate, in your analogy, I would think the guy who shot 66 and crushed the field would be more impressive, more spectacular. The guy that makes two holes in one might have a more memorable, more exciting performance. But, the performance would certainly appear to have more luck involved. The sustaining high level and systematic disection of a full 18 (or all 72) holes of a golf tournament or a full 48 minute basketball game is more spectacular to me than two great shots on two golf holes or 30 seconds of hot, streak shooting.

[TheNextGen]

Kobe >>> Tmac

[TheMadHatter]

And just like that the idiot Rockette cockroaches crawl back into their holes.

[sook]

And just like that the idiot Rockette cockroaches crawl back into their holes.




You are like the epitome of idiotic Kobe dick suckers


Kobe is better than tmac but that isn't what the poll is asking dumbshit so learn to read and answer questions based on the context, you know kind of like on an SAT?

[sook]

81 points is 81 points i dont care how you cut it. Tracy's doesnt even compare. all this talk about how it was against the champs is a desperate attempt to boost the accomplishment. it was only 13 points, 902376847682768974867863728 players have scored over 13 points in a game. only 1 has scored more than 81. i dont care if it was against the Champs, does that make Dirk Nowitski's performance against the Spurs in game 7 better than Kobe's 81? exactly.

[/thread]

Stupid fail fail fail logic.

342089732890472048230948 have scored 4 points also, but does that even compare to probably top 5 legendary performances ever + THE greatest close to a game ever?
MJ scored the last 4 points to give the bulls the title in 98 check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Jn_22_qgg

Now tell me if your philosophy on the matter makes sense at all?


How many points tmac scored is in direct correlation to how much time he spent doing it.

13 points in half a minute, it is mind boggling.


I'll say it again to all the Kobe dick suckers that seem to have his jizz all over their eyes and ears...I WOULD RATHER DO 81 but 13 in 33 is more spectacular + 2nd best close to a game ive ever seen.



Which performance is better has nothing to do with which player is better so idiots please read the poll before you slip shit out of your mouth like the madhatter fag ^

[TheMadHatter]

Not once did I say Kobe being a better player than T-Mac has anything to do with the OP's question.

I refuse to accept that 35 seconds of brilliance outshines a full game's worth. I refuse to accept that scoring 13 in 35 requires more talent than scoring 81 in a game. Let's just agree to disagree :toast

[JamStone]

Tracy McGrady's 13 points in 35 seconds = 22.3 points per minute.

Rodney Rogers' 9 points in 9 seconds = 60 points per minute.

Rodney Rogers' performance = roughly 3 times more spectacular than Tracy McGrady's performance.

[Roxsfan]

I dont really care who had more of the "epic" performace and what not..all i know is that Kobe is 100 times better than Tmac now and ever!! it'd be a huge accomplishment for tmac to get out of the first round as for now.

what has kobe won w/out shaq?


:lmao


what has shaq won w/out kobe? :lobt2:

:lmao

[TheMadHatter]

^No. No Rockette fan, you do not get to talk shit about Kobe. You are 2nd round virgin, know your place.

[dirk4mvp]

what has kobe won w/out shaq?



Don't ask this question to that stupid fucking faggot Lakeshow.

[TheMACHINE]

what has kobe won w/out shaq?


:lmao


what has shaq won w/out kobe? :lobt2:

:lmao


what has T-mac won?

:lmao

(you definately set yourself up with that one)

[dirk4mvp]

what has T-mac won?

:lmao

(you definately set yourself up with that one)


T-Mac won a title in 2000.

[JamStone]

T-Mac won a title in 2000.

Which title was that?

He wasn't on the 2000 Olympic team if that's what you're trying to say.

[TheMACHINE]

T-Mac won a title in 2000.


Which title was that?

He wasn't on the 2000 Olympic team if that's what you're trying to say.


:lmao:rollin:lol

[dirk4mvp]

Which title was that?

He wasn't on the 2000 Olympic team if that's what you're trying to say.



nope. finished 3rd in the dunk contest that year. close enough.

[TheMadHatter]

nope. finished 3rd in the dunk contest that year. close enough.

I think Epic Fail needs to pay you a visit.

[dirk4mvp]

I think Epic Fail needs to pay you a visit.

not before he stops by your butt buddy Lakeshow's place first.

[Indazone]

Whether T-Mac has gotten out of the first round or won a title is irrelevant to this thread. It's simply who's performance was more spectacular.

[ShoogarBear]

T-Mac getting out of the first round would be the most spectacular achievement of all.

[TheMadHatter]

T-Mac getting out of the first round would be the most spectacular achievement of all.

Agreed :toast

[sook]

Agreed :toast

seconded, even though he hasn't been favored to win most of the times.



Btw Grant Hill one of the best players during the end of the Jordan era still has yet to get out of the first round.

If T-Mac himself never made a big deal out of it, neither would anyone else.

[Roxsfan]

^No. No Rockette fan, you do not get to talk shit about Kobe. You are 2nd round virgin, know your place.

wipe Kobes semen off your lips already, Kobe is not 100 xs better than tmac:lol
kobe might be 100xs better than cuttino mobley..

Kobe and tmac are not that far apart in skill.......kobe just had the luxury of playing with shaq. Had shaq stayed in Orlando and played with tmac, they would have won 2-3 ships bitch.

[Roxsfan]

what has T-mac won?

:lmao

(you definately set yourself up with that one)



see above faggot.

[dirk4mvp]

wipe Kobes semen off your lips already, Kobe is not 100 xs better than tmac:lol
kobe might be 100xs better than cuttino mobley..

Kobe and tmac are not that far apart in skill.......kobe just had the luxury of playing with shaq. Had shaq stayed in Orlando and played with tmac, they would have won 2-3 ships bitch.


this is true. he probably wouldn't have imploded the team as well.

[BUMP]

wipe Kobes semen off your lips already, Kobe is not 100 xs better than tmac:lol
kobe might be 100xs better than cuttino mobley..

Kobe and tmac are not that far apart in skill.......kobe just had the luxury of playing with shaq. Had shaq stayed in Orlando and played with tmac, they would have won 2-3 ships bitch.

i partially agree here, im not sure that they wouldve won as many titles as the Lakers did. i think Kobe's a little bit more of a competitor in than TMac would be in those NBA Finals games however TMac definitely is not far off, just because he's never played in the 2nd round.

however, if this team stays healthy all year there is no excuse for McGrady not to make it out of the first round, cause if you give Kobe this caliber of a team he can take them to the Finals (which he alread has.)

[stretch]

Kobe and tmac are not that far apart in skill.......

personally i think T-Mac actually has more skills and talent but his injuries have held him back.

[TheMadHatter]

personally i think T-Mac actually has more skills and talent but his injuries have held him back.

personally i think you is stupid

[sook]

T-Mac may have better talents but Kobe is still way better than him at this point.

You can't always make injuries as an excuse, Kobe has way more desire to win and that killer instinct.