Spot Number 21 - Top 50 Spurs

[timvp]

SpursTalk's Top 50 Spurs
1. Tim Duncan
2. David Robinson
3. George Gervin
4. Gregg Popovich
5. Angelo Drossos
6. Manu Ginobili
7. Tony Parker
8. Sean Elliott
9. James Silas
10. Bruce Bowen
11. Larry Kenon
12. Avery Johnson
13. Alvin Robertson
14. Johnny Moore
15. RC Buford
16. Artis Gilmore
17. Peter Holt
18. Mike Mitchell
19. Bob Bass
20. Malik Rose

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To pass the time until the start of preseason, let's see how SpursTalk.com ranks the Top 50 Spurs. Those eligible for the list include all players, coaches and owners. I don't want to define "top" too narrowly, but I think the best way to do it would be to think of the list as a list of the 50 most influential people who have helped make the Spurs one of the most successful franchises in the history of sport.

For more information on what we are doing, check out this thread (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103061).

In this thread, we will vote for spot number 21. Please place your vote. If you will, also explain in this thread why you voted how you did.

Thanks.



P.S.

Poll options listed in alphabetical order. If you want to vote for someone not on the list, post in the thread and I'll add the person.

Voting will end 2AM CST Saturday morning.

Please vote only once.

[J.T.]

It is time for Bob Bass to finally crack this list

[MaNuMaNiAc]

It is time for Bob Bass to finally crack this list

at 19?

[anakha]

It is time for Bob Bass to finally crack this list

http://img29.picoodle.com/data/img29/3/9/5/f_readingisfum_46358bd.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/3/9/5/f_readingisfum_46358bd.jpg&srv=img29)

[ShoogarBear]

And can't DRob get a little love?

[ShoogarBear]

Tom Nissalke should be a choice ahead of Rasho and Nazr and David Greenwood.

[timvp]

Tom Nissalke should be a choice ahead of Rasho and Nazr and David Greenwood.True but I'm just adding the closest one alphabetically so fixing my autocomplete form is easy as possible.



P.S.

Weird that basketball-reference and wikipedia call him Dave Greenwood. I remember him as you said -- David Greenwood. Never heard him called Dave . . .

[J.T.]

I liked this thread better back when the "Billy Paultz" poll option read "Bob Bass" and people still had a chance to get the punchline from my last post.

[manufor3]

S-Jax

[2centsworth]

the big nutz guys should start to hit the list now:

Elie, S-Jax & Horry.

[FromWayDowntown]

Part of me is inclined to go with Horry here. The heroics in 2005 speak for themselves. Despite having been with the Spurs for only 5 years, he's easily in the top 10 in franchise history in playoff appearances while contributing to 2 titles.

There's also the cynical side to guide that vote -- if we're talking about the most important figures in franchise history, it's hard to find too many guys who might have changed more key series in single strokes than Robert Horry, whether in a Spurs uniform or while playing for an opponent. On the negative side of that equation from the Spurs' standpoint is his game winner in Game 1 of the '95 WCF. On the positive side of that equation is his tour de force in Detroit in '05 and his rim-out miss at the end of Game 5 of the 2003 WCSF. I think you could argue that if Horry hits that shot, the Lakers win that series and another title, leaving David Robinson to retire on a much different note and, perhaps, making the push to get Jason Kidd in the following summer all the more urgent. Who knows where things stand if that shot goes down.

Horry's influence on Spurs' history is substantial.

[Rappin Robert Horry]

I don't get how I'm not in the twenty
When it comes to the clutch I'm straight money
In those 05 Finals i was the man
A clutch shot and a three point jam
Timmy owes me for that game 5 win
without me they'd talk of his missed tip-in
don't forget 07 when the suns were wrecked
I ended their season with a body check
So when you cast your vote, put it in my place
And you guys 22-50 can TELL ME HOW DEMOCRACY TASTES!!!!

[baseline bum]

I'm going with Moe, but Rob is the next player on my list for sure.

[xtremesteven33]

Spurs should resign Horry......nuff said

[Obstructed_View]

Could someone make a case for Moe to me, please? I read timvp's blip about him but I'd probably put him third on the list of remaining coaches. I also don't really understand how Jack gets so much love for contributing one season. Guys like Steve Kerr and Jaren Jackson made similar contributions to championship teams.

[Brutalis]

I'm going with Red.

[angelbelow]

horry!

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

RoHo. I would have put him over Malik actually.

[timvp]

Could someone make a case for Moe to me, please? I read timvp's blip about him but I'd probably put him third on the list of remaining coaches.I agree that it's difficult to figure out where to place Doug Moe on this list. First of all, I think most people consider him a Nugget. After four years in San Antonio, he went to the Nuggets for a decade. He's now an assistant coach there.

I realize Moe was important during the transition years but how much more important was he than Albeck or Nissalke? Even someone like Larry Brown isn't that far away considering he introduced Pop to San Antonio and helped kickoff the David Robinson Era with much success.

Before Pop, the Spurs were known to go through coaches every couple of years. Usually, the drop off or improvement was minimal from coach to coach. It seems like winning and losing in San Antonio has revolved more around players and owners than coaches. In fact, the Spurs won more games the year before Moe arrived than his first year ... and they won more games the year after he left.

I think part of the problem is Pop has overshadowed the rest of the coaches in Spurs history to the point that no one else can even compare. Pop has more career victories than the next four winningest coaches in Spurs history combined (Moe, Brown, Albeck and Bass).

Moe deserves props for being a forefather and being the second winningest coach in franchise history but it is difficult to judge where he should be placed. Perhaps someone can bring up points that separate Moe from the other coaches right behind him but as it stands, I find it difficult to make a push for Moe unless I'm going to be pushing those other coaches right behind him.

[timvp]

This vote is difficult. Horry is a pretty good candidate just for the 2005 playoff run alone. His heroics in Game 5 versus the Pistons probably ended up being the difference between a devastating series loss and championship number three.

But it's hard for me to go full force for Horry. He played very well in 2005 and pretty decent in 2007. But his playoff runs in 2004, 2006 and 2008 were very disappointing. On top of that, he was pretty much invisible for every regular season he was here.

In a way you can compare Horry to Elie. Both had one very good run. Elie was more of a leader and played a part in a more vital championship, while Horry was around longer and chipped in on two championships. I'm not convinced Horry > Elie ... nor am I convinced that they are the top two people on this list.

I might have to lean toward McCombs or McDermott. Without McCombs, the Spurs likely don't even come into existence because the rest of the ownership group didn't have enough money. Without McDermott, Pop wouldn't have been hired and who knows what would have happened after that.

[Bruno]

I'm quite surprised to see Cummings not getting more love.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'm quite surprised to see Cummings not getting more love.

I voted TC at 20 but then switched to Horry at 21.


Cummings should definitely be in the next 10.



Statistically, you could probably argue that Willie Anderson should be, too, and I don't think he's garnered a vote yet.

[Spooky]

Terry Cummings again.

[Spurs Brazil]

Horry.

His playoffs in 2005 is all I need to vote for him now

[Obstructed_View]

I voted TC at 20 but then switched to Horry at 21.


Cummings should definitely be in the next 10.



Statistically, you could probably argue that Willie Anderson should be, too, and I don't think he's garnered a vote yet.

Willie was only healthy and productive a couple of years. I like him very much but he didn't really contribute any more than TC did. They did lead that team that took Portland to seven games, which was the brightest spot the Spurs had for a period of years.

I voted Horry because of his contribution to championships, but Red did a lot of things that kept the Spurs in town.

[Obstructed_View]

I agree that it's difficult to figure out where to place Doug Moe on this list. First of all, I think most people consider him a Nugget. After four years in San Antonio, he went to the Nuggets for a decade. He's now an assistant coach there.

I realize Moe was important during the transition years but how much more important was he than Albeck or Nissalke? Even someone like Larry Brown isn't that far away considering he introduced Pop to San Antonio and helped kickoff the David Robinson Era with much success.

Before Pop, the Spurs were known to go through coaches every couple of years. Usually, the drop off or improvement was minimal from coach to coach. It seems like winning and losing in San Antonio has revolved more around players and owners than coaches. In fact, the Spurs won more games the year before Moe arrived than his first year ... and they won more games the year after he left.

I think part of the problem is Pop has overshadowed the rest of the coaches in Spurs history to the point that no one else can even compare. Pop has more career victories than the next four winningest coaches in Spurs history combined (Moe, Brown, Albeck and Bass).

Moe deserves props for being a forefather and being the second winningest coach in franchise history but it is difficult to judge where he should be placed. Perhaps someone can bring up points that separate Moe from the other coaches right behind him but as it stands, I find it difficult to make a push for Moe unless I'm going to be pushing those other coaches right behind him.

Thank you. I didn't want to disrespect Moe but you pretty much nailed the way I feel about him. I wasn't a fan at the time, so there are obviously nuances that I'm missing. At least I don't feel so bad about bypassing him for someone I'm more familiar with. I personally thnk LB should get some play here pretty soon.

[Kona]

Cummings.

[Spurtacus]

Horry!

[MrChug]

Red.

[Obstructed_View]

Rasho!

[ShoogarBear]

The case for Moe is easy. He was the guy who guided a Spurs team that was relatively lowly-regarded a the time of the merger into a legitimate NBA power. The entire image of the Spurs as a running-gunning exciting team in the late 70s/early 80s was Moe's influence. He was the guy who turned the Iceman into the second-greatest scoring guard ever. And he was also one bad offensive foul call away from getting the Spurs into the Finals in 1978.

And he did all this with an incredible amount of character, class, and humor. I don't think it's possible to find anything bad ever said or written about Doug Moe.

[Obstructed_View]

And he was also one bad offensive foul call away from getting the Spurs into the Finals in 1978.

That must have been one hell of a bad call to cost him three games.

I keed, I keed.

Thank you for the additional info. I knew there was more to it.

[timvp]

The entire image of the Spurs as a running-gunning exciting team in the late 70s/early 80s was Moe's influence. He was the guy who turned the Iceman into the second-greatest scoring guard ever.

While I agree Moe should be the next coach off the list, aren't you stealing some of the limelight away from Bob Bass? From what I've read, those early years went like this:

-Spurs bring in Tom Nissalke from the NBA to coach the team.

-Drossos got bored to tears by Nissalke's coaching style.

-Drossos orders Bass to make the Spurs exciting.

-Bass coaches the 1975-76 season (his only full season as coach) and demands that the team runs as much as possible.

-Bass figures out that George Gervin should play shooting guard instead of small forward.

-The Spurs average 115.5 points under Bass during the regular season.

-Gervin goes nucking futs in the '76 playoffs and emerges as a superstar. He went from second best player on the team to playing in-his-prime Julius Erving to a standstill.

-Bass returns to GM and goes out to search for a coach who will continue what he started in terms of a high scoring offense. Bass finds Moe who had been the offensive coordinator of sorts under Larry Brown in the ABA for the Carolina Cougars -- a team that lead the ABA in scoring.

-Moe keeps the tempo high and keeps Gervin at shooting guard. The Spurs average slightly less under Moe (115) but Gervin blossoms even more and become a legend.





That's how I understood the chain of events. If my chain of events is accurate, I think saying that Moe is responsible for the run and gun image and Gervin's ascent to superstardom isn't entirely accurate. I'd say Moe finished what Bass started ... who was influenced and directed by Drossos.

[angelbelow]

looks like its horry!