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View Full Version : Surviving Without Manu (Hoopsworld)



duncan228
09-08-2008, 07:01 PM
Surviving Without Manu (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9942)
By: Yannis Koutroupis

There was a collective sigh of relief from the Spurs' organization when their star shooting guard Manu Ginobili's ankle surgery was successful. While the short term will be a struggle without him, the biggest concern is his long-term health. Now that playing without Ginobili has become a reality it's time for the Spurs to figure out how they are going to keep pace in the extremely tough Western Conference.

Had the Spurs been able to sign their top free agent targets this wouldn't be anywhere near as big of an issue. The Spurs had their eye on Corey Maggette and at one time were though to be the favorite for his services, but Maggette opted to sign with the Golden State Warriors when they offered him twice as much money as the Spurs did. Maggette would have given the Spurs a much needed scoring punch and allowed Ginobili to stay in the sixth man role that he has thrived at once he did finally return.

The Spurs have had their eye on J.R. Smith ever since he was in Byron Scott's doghouse with New Orleans Hornets and he too would have really been valuable with Manu out. There was interest from the Spurs in signing the restricted free agent this summer, but because the Denver Nuggets made it very clear that they wanted to keep Smith the Spurs did not even make an offer. As apparent from the Marcus Camby trade, the Nuggets were willing to do whatever it took to keep Smith.

Jannero Pargo was another player that could have helped the Spurs in Manu's absence, but like Maggette he went with the money. In Pargo's case that place was Russia, as he signed a $3.5 million deal with the Moscow Dynamo. Where Pargo really would have helped though was backing up Tony Parker, but instead the Spurs will once again be forced to depend on Jacque Vaughn and unsigned rookie George Hill.

So now the Spurs are forced to go with what they have at the shooting guard position, and it isn't much when you consider who they have to replace. Manu is one of the game's best offensive players, and by far one of the most unpredictable. Thanks to a complete offensive package Ginobili is one of the hardest players to match up with in the league.

Spurs' head coach Greg Popovich will look to Michael Finley, Ime Udoka, and Roger Mason Jr. to help fill the void left by Manu in a combined effort. Finley will likely get the start due to his familiarity with the system but at 38 years of age he's limited in what he can provide on a nightly basis.

Udoka showed a lot of improvement as the season progressed last year and with Manu out his role will almost certainly expand. The problem with playing Udoka at shooting guard is that he's Bruce Bowen's main backup at small forward, and like Finley Bruce isn't getting any younger himself.

That leaves Roger Mason, who averaged a career high of nine points a game last year with the Washington Wizards. If the Spurs are going to keep up with the Houston Rockets, Los Angeles Lakers, New Orleans Hornets, and Utah Jazz in the early going Mason is really going to have to show up big for the Spurs.

The Spurs are going to need Mason to be aggressive and efficient. He doesn't have to average 17 points and four assists a game like Manu, but he does need to make opposing teams respect him to keep them from doubling up on Tim Duncan and Tony Parker.

Speaking of what has to be referred to as the Big Two until Ginobili returns, their production has to rise as well. They are the leaders of this team, and the Spurs will only go as far as those two take them. Even if Roger Mason has a career year and Michael Finley comes back rejuvenated the Spurs won't be able to win without great play from their captains. Considering the fact that they've gotten more rest this summer than they have in a few years, Parker and Duncan should be ready to go.

It's not going to be easy, but the Spurs are capable of at least staying within reach early on. They start off the season against Phoenix and Portland in October, but face just four teams who had a record over .500 last season in November. They do face Houston twice in November, but overall the Spurs couldn't ask for a better stretch to be without Manu.

If this season stayed true to how most of the decade has played out, the Spurs would end up winning the championship because it's an odd year. However, they are nowhere near as strong as they have been in years past and there are several other teams in the conference that have better teams right now.

Dynasties are all about persevering and fighting through whatever obstacles come your way to rise to the top. Sure the odds are stacked up against them, but for a franchise that has always struggled to get their due, what's a better way to cement your legacy than winning it all when you've basically been written off?

Big P
09-08-2008, 08:07 PM
Finley 38 yo?? lol

Solid D
09-08-2008, 08:21 PM
Typically, the Spurs give the double-digit minutes to 10 players.

Barring any major trades between now and November, the Spurs will probably have to rely on these 10 players to get them through December, CY08:
* New to the team

Oberto.......Thomas
Duncan......Bonner
Bowen.......Udoka
Finley........Mason*
Parker.......Vaughn

This leaves Mahinmi, Tolliver and the unsigned Hill to pick up the table scraps unless one/some of them rise up and do something tangible.

Would that be your ten double-digit minutes guys until Gino comes back?

Would you have this guy in the mix to dig the Spurs out of the injury hole?

http://www.nba.com/media/1bwb_300_080905.jpg

mrspurs
09-08-2008, 08:39 PM
I'd worry more about our backcourt then our frontcourt. We got schooled in the paint, and with all that youth in the West, and our current set of bigs. We're gonna get schooled again.

Solid D
09-08-2008, 08:48 PM
I'd worry more about our backcourt then our frontcourt. We got schooled in the paint, and with all that youth in the West, and our current set of bigs. We're gonna get schooled again.

If the Spurs got schooled in the paint...what are you worrying about, again? The backcourt is outside of the paint and the frontcourt, sir.

Obstructed_View
09-08-2008, 08:54 PM
I'd worry more about our backcourt then our frontcourt. We got schooled in the paint, and with all that youth in the West, and our current set of bigs. We're gonna get schooled again.

?

porscha
09-08-2008, 09:31 PM
:p:seems like noone like to come to our cheapy spurs

benefactor
09-08-2008, 09:41 PM
?
As my redneck uncle from Troup would say..."I think that boys got it bass ackwards."

024
09-08-2008, 10:04 PM
are the spurs ever going to sign hill? what exactly are they waiting for.. after training camp to see if he's worth it? if hill turns out the be a bust, then ginobili will be needed more than ever because mason will have to fill the role of backup point guard, leaving finley and ginobili as the only shooting guards. vaughn might play some backup minutes but probably will not have much playing time against competitive teams.

DROB4EVER
09-08-2008, 10:25 PM
are the spurs ever going to sign hill? what exactly are they waiting for.. after training camp to see if he's worth it? if hill turns out the be a bust, then ginobili will be needed more than ever because mason will have to fill the role of backup point guard, leaving finley and ginobili as the only shooting guards. vaughn might play some backup minutes but probably will not have much playing time against competitive teams.

I heard a radio show state that the Spurs drafted Hill in hopes to deal him on draft night for future picks. The Lakers looked at him as a tony stopper and wanted him bad, but the spurs drafted him with the intent to keep him from the Lakers and deal him for picks in 2010.

This could be, why else have they not signed him. Very odd to me that the spurs nor Hills agent have said anything publicly about this. I have also heard rumors that the spurs wanted him to sign in Italy for 2 yrs. and Hill refused to do so so they sides or at a stale mate. The spurs dont wanna sign him yet but dont want to waive his rights and throw away the pick.

This is making the FO look very bad IMO. Considering there were other guys who could play right now that we could have drafted at 26 and by all looks we pissed away the pick.

024
09-08-2008, 10:50 PM
I heard a radio show state that the Spurs drafted Hill in hopes to deal him on draft night for future picks. The Lakers looked at him as a tony stopper and wanted him bad, but the spurs drafted him with the intent to keep him from the Lakers and deal him for picks in 2010.

This could be, why else have they not signed him. Very odd to me that the spurs nor Hills agent have said anything publicly about this. I have also heard rumors that the spurs wanted him to sign in Italy for 2 yrs. and Hill refused to do so so they sides or at a stale mate. The spurs dont wanna sign him yet but dont want to waive his rights and throw away the pick.

This is making the FO look very bad IMO. Considering there were other guys who could play right now that we could have drafted at 26 and by all looks we pissed away the pick.

hill's summer league play most likely scared away teams who were interested in trading a future first pick for him. if what you heard was true, then it seems that no one currently wants hill. the fact that the spurs have not signed hill yet means they don't want him on the roster yet. i think this is approaching becoming a wasted pick. i don't know how going through training camp will change anything. i think all other first round picks have either signed with their teams or with a euro team.

DROB4EVER
09-08-2008, 10:56 PM
hill's summer league play most likely scared away teams who were interested in trading a future first pick for him. if what you heard was true, then it seems that no one currently wants hill. the fact that the spurs have not signed hill yet means they don't want him on the roster yet. i think this is approaching becoming a wasted pick. i don't know how going through training camp will change anything. i think all other first round picks have either signed with their teams or with a euro team.

The station I picked that up from is mostly gives good info, looks like we pulled a Travis Knight job. Makes no sense to me. Would be nice to have a back up pg but we just needed young legs of the bench. We could have taken Greene who can play the 2 or 3 at 6-10. We could have taken a fligher on the Center from Tex a&m Jordon i think is his name, a big fast shot blocker with great upside. Walker from Kansas could give us help.

Hell we could have even drafted another overseas guy at least we would hold on to his rights. Unless the FO does something Im not sold that we have enough to win the west right now.

Gino
09-09-2008, 12:32 AM
Shouldn't any article from Hoopsworld be banned?

duncan228
09-09-2008, 12:49 AM
Shouldn't any article from Hoopsworld be banned?

I agree that Hoopsworld is lousy, and I know Kori asked that we not post Bleacher Report stuff. If she asks that Hoopsworld not be posted I won't post their stuff again.

I posted this one because it covers some of the Spurs options with Manu out, which has been a hot topic lately. And the guy that wrote this one posts here occasionally.

If it's not worthy of conversation, Hoopsworld can bring some laughs while it's torn apart. Otherwise, it will fall off the front page soon enough.

Oh, and I always warn people and put Hoopsworld in the thread title so you can avoid it if you're not interested.

SenorSpur
09-09-2008, 10:38 AM
The station I picked that up from is mostly gives good info, looks like we pulled a Travis Knight job. Makes no sense to me. Would be nice to have a back up pg but we just needed young legs of the bench. We could have taken Greene who can play the 2 or 3 at 6-10. We could have taken a fligher on the Center from Tex a&m Jordon i think is his name, a big fast shot blocker with great upside. Walker from Kansas could give us help.

Hell we could have even drafted another overseas guy at least we would hold on to his rights. Unless the FO does something Im not sold that we have enough to win the west right now.

Whether this information has merit or not, it is VERY troubling that we're on the eve of training camp and the Spurs have not yet signed their 1st round draft pick. A guy they were supposedly SO VERY HIGH on.

If they drafted Hill for any other reason other than to backup Parker, the FO should again be roundly criticized. The Spurs are at critical mass, in terms of getting younger and quicker to stay at the top of the conference. The best and cheapest way to accomplish this is by infusing young talent onto their roster. As long as the Big Three are intact, they will be competitive, but if they want to continue contending for titles over the next several seasons, the FO must take responsibility seriously. This is no time to get cute with draft picks.

xtremesteven33
09-09-2008, 10:43 AM
good article.

xtremesteven33
09-09-2008, 10:44 AM
As long as Manu is back by December at 110%.

ill be happy

wildbill2u
09-09-2008, 11:48 AM
There are obviously problems with signing Hill that are not being revealed as yet.

If the Spurs now think they made a mistake--and Hill won't go to Europe--then maybe it is better to let his rights go rather than make a bigger mistake of signing him.

You have to remember that most late first round picks aren't worth signing, but Jesus, this site will absolutely explode if Pop says, "Fuck it, we were wrong in our assessment."

lefty
09-09-2008, 12:10 PM
Last season, Spurs were 2-2 without Duncan, 8-5 without Parker and 5-3 without Ginobili.

urunobili
09-09-2008, 12:59 PM
Last season, Spurs were 2-2 without Duncan, 8-5 without Parker and 5-3 without Ginobili.

remember the back to back 37 pts by Manu in that stretch? :toast it seems all the fucking haters forgot that and his best career year before start bashing him for the Olympics...

lefty
09-09-2008, 01:14 PM
remember the back to back 37 pts by Manu in that stretch? :toast it seems all the fucking haters forgot that and his best career year before start bashing him for the Olympics...

Of course I do !!!!:toast

Plus, we beat the Jazz and Mavs, and without Duncan (the aforementioned b2b 37 pt games).
When Manu is 100% healthy, he is just unstoppable

SenorSpur
09-09-2008, 02:00 PM
There are obviously problems with signing Hill that are not being revealed as yet.

If the Spurs now think they made a mistake--and Hill won't go to Europe--then maybe it is better to let his rights go rather than make a bigger mistake of signing him.

You have to remember that most late first round picks aren't worth signing, but Jesus, this site will absolutely explode if Pop says, "Fuck it, we were wrong in our assessment."

If that scenario played out, I wouldn't crucify them for not signing Hill. Rather I would indict them for ever drafting him in the first place - especially in a such an unusually deep draft when there were better players available.

For that matter, if Hill turns out not the be PG they thought, they could've been better off keeping Dragic for themselves.

If this scenario does come to fruition, it would further serve notice to the Spurs palty record in scouting and drafting domestic talent. I just hope this is not the case.

Bender
09-09-2008, 02:03 PM
If they drafted Hill for any other reason other than to backup Parker, the FO should again be roundly criticized.didn't Pop state publicly that he thought Hill would immediately make the team better... or something like that? That's what I'm wondering about.

unusual for Pop to make statements like that

WalterBenitez
09-09-2008, 02:13 PM
:p:seems like noone like to come to our cheapy spurs

cheapy and dirty :lobt2:

duncan228
09-09-2008, 02:29 PM
didn't Pop state publicly that he thought Hill would immediately make the team better... or something like that? That's what I'm wondering about.

unusual for Pop to make statements like that


“He's a really solid player at both ends of the court,” Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. “I honestly believe he will make our team better right off the bat.”

Spurs go off the radar with Hill (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/MYSA062708_1D_BKNspurs_draft_main_4511270_html.htm l)
6/27/2008

angelbelow
09-09-2008, 11:48 PM
maybe tolliver is the new david west? lol

xellos88330
09-10-2008, 12:01 AM
Well I am hoping that Ian Mahinmi will actually make the team. I like his athleticism. He is a bit slow off the draw, but a little on the job training and lots of yelling from pop might work :P. Also hoping George Hill suprises the livin shit outta me. His defense seemed solid, but his offense seemed stagnant.

Manufan909
09-10-2008, 04:07 AM
Well I am hoping that Ian Mahinmi will actually make the team. I like his athleticism. He is a bit slow off the draw, but a little on the job training and lots of yelling from pop might work :P. Also hoping George Hill suprises the livin shit outta me. His defense seemed solid, but his offense seemed stagnant.

+1

We'll have to wait for the preseason to see Hill(if he even makes it), but I think Ian is definite. I want him to get 15-20 minutes starting out. He's a young body, plus the only way he'll learn is with PT. With Bonner, I just want to see him play since he's the new Horry, for better or worse.

I think the Spurs might have to play bigger with Manu out, to hide the lack of swingmen. Or maybe Udoka and Mason we'll just divide up Manu's minutes. If that occurs, I hope it's 70-30 in favor of Mason, since Udoka already has some minutes.

If Hill does make it, I really hope Pop uses him as a combo PG/SG guard, so the transition will be easier for him. Then when Manu get's back, he'll only backup TP.