Women will decide this election.

[JoeChalupa]

Make no mistake about it and the Repubicans have grasped this cause on the rebound of the Hillary primary defeat and are going to run with it all the way to the White House. Not only has Barack's decision NOT to pick Hillary come back to bite him but it is also taking a big bite from the lead he once had over McCain.
Women are uniting to break that glass ceiling and they now see Palin as the hammer that will shatter that glass in a way Hillary can now only dream about.
Right now Palin is almost untouchable as she is America's new Queen and be they democrat or republican, women see her for what she is...THE woman who can take them over the top and they are willing for put aside political differences for the sake of womanhood.
It will be a miracle, and one that I am still praying for, if Obama catches McCain in the polls.
They are women....hear them roar!!!!

[2centsworth]

there's been in 20pt swing since the RNC. I saw it coming, but still have long to go.

[possessed]

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iGUhuxZE4tp9-74zqxzO6EEaYW1w

:toast

[AmericanWoman]

Stick a fork in Obama.......he's done.

[florige]

Stick a fork in Obama.......he's done.



Yeah before ANY debate has taken place AND in Sept. Yeah he's done....:rolleyes

[fyatuk]

Yeah before ANY debate has taken place AND in Sept. Yeah he's done....:rolleyes

And you're complaining about this after many libs have been saying the election is over for months? :hat

[florige]

And you're complaining about this after many libs have been saying the election is over for months? :hat


I'm in agreement that was pretty dumb as well. Especially with the way the Republican party is capable of running their campaigns.

[JoeChalupa]

This forum could use some female perspective on this issue. But I suspect many don't want their true political views known which I can understand.

Come on ladies!! The time is now!!

[TheProfessor]

I know there's been a national swing towards the Republican ticket, but people are ignoring state races again. Obama has pulled even in Florida while increasing his lead in Colorado. On the flip side, Palin's choice may put Ohio out of reach, as McCain is maintaining a solid lead there; however, Obama is still up in Pennsylvania and extremely close (according to SUSA anyway) in Virginia, without even factoring in increased African-American turnout (currently predicted at 19%, when registered AA's actually turned out at 21% for Kerry). Michigan is still in play, but I wonder for how long with their economic difficulties.

National polls make for fun cooler talk, but they ignore the realities of the electoral race. It will be extremely close.

[MsMcGillyCutty]

I've made my decision and not all women are flocking to Palin's side. It takes more than a pretty face to fool me.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m133/prairiemermaid/obama_women-1.jpg

[ploto]

Actually, I saw a poll that showed that women's support of McCain actually DROPPED after Palin gave her speech at the RNC- reflective of the views of many women here who were turned off by her sarcasm- and here is the lastest poll gender-wise that shows that Palin's support is from men- not women.



When it comes to support for Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin, a new national poll suggests men and women don't see eye to eye.

A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey out Tuesday indicates that 62 percent of men questioned have a favorable opinion of the Alaska governor, nine points higher than women.

In the poll, conducted Friday through Sunday, entirely after the end of the Republican convention, 23 percent of men have an unfavorable view of Sen. John McCain's running mate, seven points lower than women.

The gender gap is also apparent when it comes to whether Palin is qualified to serve as president. Fifty-seven percent of male respondents said Palin was qualified, 14 points higher than women. A majority of women polled, 55 percent, said Palin is not qualified.

[Anti.Hero]

If you still can't decide between Obama and Palin what the fuck are you basing your vote on?

Gender and personality? Are you kidding me?

I never understood this. THESE are the people that decide the fate of the country? That's democracy I can believe in? LOL Shit might as well be American Idol.

[Bartleby]

Finally something we can agree on.

[Supergirl]

Actually I think this election will be decided by young people - the base of Obama supporters has been new voters, first time voters, people under the age of 25. Lots didn't have a chance to vote in the previous election because they were too young, historically they tend to not turn out for elections. This year in the primaries they turned out in mass numbers. They are undercounted and underreported in many polls, since many of them don't have landlines.

[101A]

Actually I think this election will be decided by young people - the base of Obama supporters has been new voters, first time voters, people under the age of 25. Lots didn't have a chance to vote in the previous election because they were too young, historically they tend to not turn out for elections. This year in the primaries they turned out in mass numbers. They are undercounted and underreported in many polls, since many of them don't have landlines.

God.

Help.

Us.

The most ignorant, self-righteous, least impacted group from among us is gonna choose. (And I speak from experience, I, too was under 25 once).

If someone else claims you as a dependent on their taxes, you ought not be able to vote, IMO.

[JoeChalupa]

God.

Help.

Us.

The most ignorant, self-righteous, least impacted group from among us is gonna choose. (And I speak from experience, I, too was under 25 once).

If someone else claims you as a dependent on their taxes, you ought not be able to vote, IMO.

It is their future at stake and more power to them.

[101A]

It is their future at stake and more power to them.

And children have always been so wise in making choices which are in their own best interest. If Daddy pays the bills; daddy ought to get to vote for them; they obviously aren't grown up enough.

[JoeChalupa]

And children have always been so wise in making choices which are in their own best interest. If Daddy pays the bills; daddy ought to get to vote for them; they obviously aren't grown up enough.

And what about the wise choices are "elder statesmen" are making? Obviously they aren't grown up either.

[101A]

And what about the wise choices are "elder statesmen" are making? Obviously they aren't grown up either.

At least their elders are divided on whom they support; relatively evenly. The young crowd is going so hard for Obama, it sparks much more of a movement, and a trendy thing to do, than it does of actual, deliberate, political thought.

And again, the point is academic, but if most children lived at home, or were on daddy's dole 221 years ago, I'm betting 18 year olds wouldn't have been given the right to vote.

[Buddy Holly]

If someone else claims you as a dependent on their taxes, you ought not be able to vote, IMO.

Why not. I mean at 18 they can go to war, but if they're 18 or over and are considered dependents on taxes they shouldn't vote.

Fuck!

[101A]

Why not. I mean at 18 they can go to war, but if they're 18 or over and are considered dependents on taxes they shouldn't vote.

Fuck!

If they are going to war, they are making a living, paying taxes and being adults. If they are going to college, driving daddy's car, spending daddy's money, etc... they are NOT adults, they are still children, and have NO business voting.

I'm not saying 18 isn't old enough to be responsible, I'm saying most aren't.

[dg7md]

No, young people not projected on polls voting for Obama will decide this election.

[01.20.09]

At least their elders are divided on whom they support; relatively evenly. The young crowd is going so hard for Obama, it sparks much more of a movement, and a trendy thing to do, than it does of actual, deliberate, political thought.

And again, the point is academic, but if most children lived at home, or were on daddy's dole 221 years ago, I'm betting 18 year olds wouldn't have been given the right to vote.

And women are going hard for Palin because it is the "womanly" thing to do and has little to do with political thought so your theory is flawed. And older voters are going with McCain because they can't see themselves voting for a black man. Young voters have every right to vote as they see fit just like you do. This is America you know.

[Wild Cobra]

If they are going to war, they are making a living, paying taxes and being adults. If they are going to college, driving daddy's car, spending daddy's money, etc... they are NOT adults, they are still children, and have NO business voting.

I'm not saying 18 isn't old enough to be responsible, I'm saying most aren't.
I agree with this somewhat. Personally, I believe we should only allow tax payers to vote. By tax payers, I mean those who pay more than they get back at the end of the year. Not those getting bennies like "earned income credit."

[Nbadan]

Women are fickle.....but there's still a lot of time to learn things about Palin that the M$M corporate media doesn't talk about, like her controversial view against abortion, even in cases of rape and incest...

[Wild Cobra]

Women are fickle.....but there's still a lot of time to learn things about Palin that the M$M corporate media doesn't talk about, like her controversial view against abortion, even in cases of rape and incest...

Will you quote that for me please...

Being pro-life doen't mean you impose that view on others!

[Nbadan]

That took all of 5 seconds...

Palin On Abortion: I'd Oppose Even If My Own Daughter Was Raped (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/01/palin-on-abortion-id-oppo_n_122924.html)

[baseline bum]

I agree with this somewhat. Personally, I believe we should only allow tax payers to vote. By tax payers, I mean those who pay more than they get back at the end of the year. Not those getting bennies like "earned income credit."

So retired people shouldn't vote then?

[Nbadan]

Smith said Palin is opposed to abortion, but believes an exception should be made if the health of the mother is in danger.

That's the only exception Palin would make, though, Smith said.

"She doesn't make exception for rape and incest, only for health of the mother," he said.

Link (http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/101906/sta_20061019031.shtml)

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Joe, you better run for cover. Buddy Holly and NBADunce think you're full of shit about women deciding this election.

[Wild Cobra]

So retired people shouldn't vote then?

Good point. I haven't really thought all possibilities out. This is a general thought. Most or all should be able to even requiring that they are a tax payer. Remember, Social Security is designed as an insurance. Not a tax. These do become taxable incomes and are not considered a handout. There are probably other good thinghs to be an exception.

In general though, I am opposed to people voting on anything that uses tax dollars if they have no financial burden to it. I fear the day that 50% of the people will get more from the government than they pay for.

[Wild Cobra]

Dan, the first article is specifically about if her 14 year old daugher was pregnant. Not someone else. The second one is quotes from her spokesman, and not clearly in context. It looks like it's a replay of talking about her daughter.

I have heard she has spoken out on this as to her beliefs and that she has no intention to impose her views on others.

That's what I want to see from you. Where does she say she wishes to restrict or eliminate other people's choice on the matter?

Please stop acting like I maent something I didn't. I specifically said in the other post "Being pro-life doen't mean you impose that view on others!" Sorry I wasn't more specific, but by "others," I meant people who are not her dependants, of any age.

[jochhejaam]

Actually, I saw a poll that showed that women's support of McCain actually DROPPED after Palin gave her speech at the RNC- reflective of the views of many women here who were turned off by her sarcasm- and here is the lastest poll gender-wise that shows that Palin's support is from men- not women.




Posting a poll of men. :lol

Nice support for your "seeing" a poll that showed fewer women supported McCain "after" Palin's speech.




Okay, here's an "actual" poll on the how the women responded after the Palin nomination;



White women flock to McCain over Palin choice, poll reveals
Irish Times ^ | 9/10/2008
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 9:50:00 PM by markomalley

Republican presidential candidate John McCain has gained huge support among white women since naming Sarah Palin as his running mate and now leads Democrat Barack Obama among those voters, according to a survey published yesterday.

The Washington Post/ABC News poll found that much of Mr McCain's surge in the polls since the Republican National Convention is attributable to the shift in support among white women.

The race for the White House is now a virtual tie, with Mr Obama at 47 per cent support of registered voters and Mr McCain at 46 per cent, the poll found.

Before the Democratic National Convention in late August, Mr Obama held an eight point lead among white women voters, 50 per cent to 42 per cent, but after the Republican convention in early September, Mr McCain was ahead by 12 points among white women, 53 per cent to 41 per cent, the poll found <that's a 20 point swing>.

Asked about the findings during a briefing on Monday before the poll was published, Obama campaign manager David Plouffe told a Washington Post reporter, "Well, your poll is wrong. :lol I don't think you'll find many others that back up a 20-point reversal."

He added: "We certainly are not seeing any movement like that. Polls, time to time, particularly on the demographic stuff, can have some pretty wild swings."

Mr McCain surprised the electorate ahead of the Republican convention by naming Ms Palin, the little-known Alaska governor, as his vice-presidential running mate. She received high marks among supporters for her convention address, which included a scathing attack ridiculing Mr Obama's experience and record.

Mr Obama, who would be the first black US president, defeated rival Hillary Clinton in the battle for the Democratic nomination, a long and bitter struggle that left many of the former first lady's supporters disaffected and angry.

Many of her backers were further angered when Mr Obama ignored her in picking a vice-presidential candidate, choosing instead senator Joe Biden.

A key question for the Obama campaign has been whether he would be able to maintain the support of Mrs Clinton's supporters.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2762054

[Supergirl]

And children have always been so wise in making choices which are in their own best interest. If Daddy pays the bills; daddy ought to get to vote for them; they obviously aren't grown up enough.

You are being an ignorant bigot.

There are some people under the age of 25 who are a)still in college and b)getting college paid for by mommy and daddy, but the vast majority of college students go to college on student loans which they then work their asses off to pay off, or they work their way through college. Then there's the whole other collection of millions of under 25 year olds who don't go to college.

[Mr. Body]

I don't get Fundamentalists' abortion views:

Even if a woman is raped and pregnant...
Even if a woman is underaged, raped and pregnant...
Even if a woman's life is at risk due to a pregnancy...

According to your views, isn't the fetus still a full fledged human and deserving to be born? Why is it the fault of the fetus that the mother might die?

There's a logical disconnect here. According to your views, if there is a fetus, it should take precedence over any of the woman's desires or needs. In fact, why are we not taking control of what the woman eats or drinks, or her sleeping patterns?

Where do you stop?

[jochhejaam]

I don't get Fundamentalists' abortion views:
It's not a complex view MB;
-life begins at conception (inarguable, there's a scientific concensus on this one)
-human life is sacred





Even if a woman's life is at risk due to a pregnancy...
According to your views, isn't the fetus still a full fledged human and deserving to be born? Why is it the fault of the fetus that the mother might die?
Red Herring arguement, no one argues that the mothers life should be sacrificed for the sake of the baby (often that's the case).





There's a logical disconnect here. According to your views, if there is a fetus, it should take precedence over any of the woman's desires or needs.
Human life is more precious than the selfish ambitions/need of the mother, or the father of the baby that may be pressuring the woman to have the abortion.
Take the baby to term and drop him or her off at a Safe Haven, or put them up for adoption.




In fact, why are we not taking control of what the woman eats or drinks, or her sleeping patterns?

Where do you stop?
To equate the sanctity of human life with food, sleep or a beverage is ridiculous. No one is trying to regulate these things for women or men.



It's unconcionable to terminate a human being for the sake of someone being inconvienced, a human life shouldn't be discarded as if it were no more than a piece of trash.

[JoeChalupa]

Joe, you better run for cover. Buddy Holly and NBADunce think you're full of shit about women deciding this election.

I'm my own man and I DO believe women will decide this election. My friends, I'm a straight talk express.

There is no doubt at all that women have flocked to Palin and they are one powerful force to be reckoned with.

Oh yeah.

[JoeChalupa]

Good point. I haven't really thought all possibilities out. This is a general thought. Most or all should be able to even requiring that they are a tax payer. Remember, Social Security is designed as an insurance. Not a tax. These do become taxable incomes and are not considered a handout. There are probably other good thinghs to be an exception.

In general though, I am opposed to people voting on anything that uses tax dollars if they have no financial burden to it. I fear the day that 50% of the people will get more from the government than they pay for.
Many get more from the govt than we pay for. Military, roads, bridges, disaster relief, etc. Your thinking doesn't make sense to me. All citizens of voting age have the right to vote.

[The Instigator]

actually the young people will also decide this election....you know the ones that dont have lan lines...I being one of them.

[Mr. Body]

It's not a complex view MB;
-life begins at conception (inarguable, there's a scientific concensus on this one)
-human life is sacred


You didn't answer the question.

If a woman's life is at stake if the baby is carried to term, why is this the fault of the fetus? Anti-choice people run around saying the fetus is alive, then why make this exception? To be logically consistent, you should believe the woman should die and the baby should be allowed to live.




And no, life technically doesn't begin at conception, according to 'scientific consensus'. That's nonsensical in that it doesn't help. In that case life begins in the daddy's scrotum.

[jochhejaam]

You didn't answer the question.

If a woman's life is at stake if the baby is carried to term, why is this the fault of the fetus? Anti-choice people run around saying the fetus is alive, then why make this exception? To be logically consistent, you should believe the woman should die and the baby should be allowed to live.
That's fallacious, and here's why;

with abortions for convenience (99.999% of all abortions), rape, or incest, both mother and baby can survive, women choose to take the life of the baby.

In the cases where the life of the mother is at stake, only 1 can survive, and the only realistic choice is for the Dr. to save the life of the mother.

Pro-lifers, first and foremost believe in the sanctity of all human life and therfore it would be silly to insist that the Mother, Sister, Daugher, Grandmother, Niece, whatever title(s) the mother of the child may hold, be sacrificed over the baby.

That is not being inconsistent, that is a show of common sense.





And no, life technically doesn't begin at conception, according to 'scientific consensus'. That's nonsensical in that it doesn't help.


The facts are in: life begins at conception

When does human life begin?

The most distinguished scientific meeting of recent years that considered this question in depth was the First International Conference on Abortion, held in Washington D.C., in October 1967. It brought together authorities from around the world in the fields of medicine, law, ethics and social sciences. The first major question considered by the medical group was, "When does human life begin?" Their unanimous conclusion (19-1) <---That, Mr Body, is a concensus> was as follows: "The majority of our group could find no point in time between the union of the sperm and the egg, or at least the blastocyst stage, at which point we could say that this was not human life." They continued, "The changes occurring between implantation, a six-week embryo, a six-month fetus, a one-week child and a mature adult are merely stages of development and maturation." (This quotation is taken from Handbook on Abortion by Dr. J.C. Willke.)

Some More Quotations

"It is now of unquestionable certainty that a human being comes into existence precisely at the moment when the sperm combines with the egg. When the sperm and egg nuclei unite, all the characteristics, such as colour of eyes, hair, skin, that make a unique personality are laid down determinatively." Dr. H. Ratner, Report April 1966.

"From the moment a baby is conceived, it bears the indelible stamp of a separate distinct personality, an individual different from all other individuals." Ultrasound pioneer, Sir William Liley, M.D. 1967.

"The birth of a human life really occurs at the moment the mother's cell is fertilized by one of the father's sperm cells." Life magazine, "Drama of Life before Birth," April 1965.

"A baby who has just been born is not brand new; he already has a life story. Human life begins when the sperm of the father enters the ovum or egg of the mother." The Life Cycle Library for Young People.

"When the sperm and egg fuse, the newly-formed cell has conferred upon it the degree of Homo Sapiens, with all the rights and privileges pertaining." (Note, "Rights and Privileges.") Peter Amenta, Ph.D. Professor of Embryology, Hahnemann Medical School.

"I have learned from my earliest medical education that human life begins at conception. I submit that human life is present throughout this entire sequence, from conception to adulthood, and any interruption at any point throughout this time constitutes the termination of a human life." Dr. A.M. Bongioanni, professor of obstetrics, University of Pennsylvania.

"After fertilization has taken place a new human being has come into existence. This is no longer a matter of taste or opinion. Each individual has a very neat beginning, at conception." Dr. Jerome Lejeune, genetics professor at the University of Descartes, Paris. He discovered the Down syndrome chromosome.

"It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at conception." Professor M. Matthews-Roth, Harvard University Medical School.

"By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception." Professor Hymie Gordon, Mayo Clinic.

"I oppose abortion. I do so, first because I accept what is biologically manifest - human life commences at the time of conception - and secondly, because I believe it is wrong to take an innocent human life under any circumstances." Dr. Landrum Shettles, pioneer in sperm biology.

http://www.theinterim.com/1999/oct/15frted.html