About Jordan/Kobe "who is better" topics...

[Kamnik]

There were quite some in the past...

I just finished reading article about MJ´s career on wikipedia and all I can say that people who even dared comparing these 2 are on crack! :toast

I was too young to follow his best days so i was not fully aware of all he achieved and the way he did it.

And for the record... im not a Kobe hater; I like watching him play.

p.s.

48 days until the start of the season... :rolleyes

[PM5K]

How old are you?

[Kamnik]

23.

Well more than age, the main problem was that I could not watch NBA games anywhere back then.

Anyways.... after reading through of that article I imidiately remembered how some people here on ST (yeah... laker fans mostly) were making a case for Kobe.

[Allanon]

23.

Well more than age, the main problem was that I could not watch NBA games anywhere back then.

Anyways.... after reading through of that article I imidiately remembered how some people here on ST (yeah... laker fans mostly) were making a case for Kobe.

Nah, as far as I know, none of us Laker fans have ever said that Kobe > Jordan. However, since Kobe's career is not yet done, we don't know if Kobe will ever > Jordan. I suppose we'll know the answer in the next 6-8 years.

So maybe some day Kobe > Jordan but today is not that day.

[Kamnik]

Nah, as far as I know, none of us Laker fans have ever said that Kobe > Jordan. However, since Kobe's career is not yet done, we don't know if Kobe will ever > Jordan. I suppose we'll know the answer in the next 6-8 years.

So maybe some day Kobe > Jordan but today is not that day.

Well I did not want to generalise all laker fans. Obviously you do not all think/write the same things.

But I clearly remember some did say Kobe>Jordan.

[stretch]

Nah, as far as I know, none of us Laker fans have ever said that Kobe > Jordan. However, since Kobe's career is not yet done, we don't know if Kobe will ever > Jordan. I suppose we'll know the answer in the next 6-8 years.

Lakeshow has before. Then again, hes a rockets fan... so yeah.


So maybe some day Kobe > Jordan but today is not that day.

No, he won't. After losing two NBA finals, I think he pretty much lost any chance of being considered as truly a better player than Jordan. He still needs at least 3 more rings, and 4 more MVPs before he can be considered greater. Neither is likely to happen.

[JamStone]

Jordan was the greatest player ever. It's his combination of natural talent, polished skill, work ethic, will to win, championship success, and individual success that make any comparison with any other player moot.

However, in terms of individual skill and talent, there have been players that are in the same discussion as him, and Kobe is one of them. Doesn't mean Kobe is anywhere as good as Jordan when you consider other factors. But, guys like Kobe, Oscar Robertson, and Elgin Baylor are in the discussion when you talk about being at a similar level in terms of individual talent. Even the biggest Kobe dick riders know Kobe doesn't touch Michael. But, since Michael retired, no other player has come closer to Jordan than Kobe has. And, that's why some people draw the comparison.

[stretch]

Jordan was the greatest player ever. It's his combination of natural talent, polished skill, work ethic, will to win, championship success, and individual success that make any comparison with any other player moot.

However, in terms of individual skill and talent, there have been players that are in the same discussion as him, and Kobe is one of them. Doesn't mean Kobe is anywhere as good as Jordan when you consider other factors. But, guys like Lebron, Kobe, Oscar Robertson, and Elgin Baylor are in the discussion when you talk about being at a similar level in terms of individual talent. Even the biggest Kobe dick riders know Kobe doesn't touch Michael. But, since Michael retired, no other player has come closer to Jordan than Kobe has. And, that's why some people draw the comparison.

Good post. You just forgot to also include your hated Lebron, so I fixed it for you. You can also include T-Mac (whom I personally think is more talented and gifted than Kobe and Jordan both, and while some may think im nuts, I think its even arguable that he is the most talented player we have ever seen, but injuries/shitty teams held him back from showcasing them considerably)

[Kamnik]

Good post. You just forgot to also include your hated Lebron, so I fixed it for you. You can also include T-Mac (whom I personally think is more talented and gifted than Kobe and Jordan both, and while some may think im nuts, I think its even arguable that he is the most talented player we have ever seen, but injuries/shitty teams held him back from showcasing them considerably)

I agree. T-mac is crazy talented... Maybe more than Kobe; dont know about Jordan though.

[TheMadHatter]

On offense T-mac and Kobe are probably comparable. On defense though, Kobe clearly outshines him. In terms of killer instinct and will to win (i.e. the intangibles) Kobe again wins.

It's not really a comparison.

[IronMexican]

Jordan>Kobe.

[JamStone]

Good post. You just forgot to also include your hated Lebron, so I fixed it for you. You can also include T-Mac (whom I personally think is more talented and gifted than Kobe and Jordan both, and while some may think im nuts, I think its even arguable that he is the most talented player we have ever seen, but injuries/shitty teams held him back from showcasing them considerably)


Jesus Christ, didn't your crack about me being a LeBron hater die the last time you said that when I showed you how I posted that LeBron's 29 of 30 point game against the Pistons in the 2007 ECF was a greater performance that Kobe's 81 point game? I don't know where you get your misguided notion or why you follow my posts with that shit. Don't even know where it comes from.

Yes, LeBron belongs in the discussion. I didn't mention every single player that's in the discussion of those players who are among the most talented ever. It wasn't an exhaustive list. I didn't include Wilt Chamberlain or Julius Erving or Hakeem either.

LeBron is the most naturally talented player currently in the NBA. I even think he's a better player than Kobe right now. Keep calling me a LeBron hater, you jackass.

[IronMexican]

Jesus Christ, didn't your crack about me being a LeBron hater die the last time you said that when I showed you how I posted that LeBron's 29 of 30 point game against the Pistons in the 2007 ECF was a greater performance that Kobe's 81 point game? I don't know where you get your misguided notion or why you follow my posts with that shit. Don't even know where it comes from.

Yes, LeBron belongs in the discussion. I didn't mention every single player that's in the discussion of those players who are among the most talented ever. It wasn't an exhaustive list. I didn't include Wilt Chamberlain or Julius Erving or Hakeem either.

LeBron is the most naturally talented player currently in the NBA. I even think he's a better player than Kobe right now. Keep calling me a LeBron hater, you jackass.

look at thos LeBron hater. It's unbelievable.

[LakeShow]

[quote=stretch;2761800]Lakeshow has before. Then again, hes a rockets fan... so yeah.
quote]

Link?

You provide a link where I said that and I'l provide a link where you said, Dirk>>>Duncan.

[stretch]

On offense T-mac and Kobe are probably comparable. On defense though, Kobe clearly outshines him. In terms of killer instinct and will to win (i.e. the intangibles) Kobe again wins.

It's not really a comparison.

thats great but we werent comparing killer instinct and will to win. and on defense, when he plays his best defense, T-Mac is just as good of a defender as kobe, if not better.

your reading comprehension seriously sucks

[stretch]

Jesus Christ, didn't your crack about me being a LeBron hater die the last time you said that when I showed you how I posted that LeBron's 29 of 30 point game against the Pistons in the 2007 ECF was a greater performance that Kobe's 81 point game? I don't know where you get your misguided notion or why you follow my posts with that shit. Don't even know where it comes from.

Yes, LeBron belongs in the discussion. I didn't mention every single player that's in the discussion of those players who are among the most talented ever. It wasn't an exhaustive list. I didn't include Wilt Chamberlain or Julius Erving or Hakeem either.

LeBron is the most naturally talented player currently in the NBA. I even think he's a better player than Kobe right now. Keep calling me a LeBron hater, you jackass.

dude i was just joking with you.

[stretch]

Link?

You provide a link where I said that and I'l provide a link where you said, Dirk>>>Duncan.

1. you fail at quoting.

2. it was a joke. well, the "saying kobe is greater than jordan" part anyways, although you did say that he will eventually be the GOAT.

3. you are a rockets fan.

[Obstructed_View]

On offense Kobe and Jordan are probably comparable. On defense though, Jordan clearly outshines him. In terms of killer instinct and will to win (i.e. the intangibles) Jordan again wins.

It's not really a comparison.

Hey, that works too!

[stretch]

Hey, that works too!

a rare win for obstructed view

congrats

:toast

[jack sommerset]

FAIL!!! Tmac is to Kobe, what Drexler was to Jordan.

You are giving T-Mac to much credit

[JamStone]

dude i was just joking with you.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/onlygirl_1/backpeddling.gif

[stretch]

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/onlygirl_1/backpeddling.gif

:td

[stretch]

FAIL!!! Tmac is to Kobe, what Drexler was to Jordan.


You are giving T-Mac to much credit

some of you are selling t-macs talents awfully short...

[The Franchise]

You are giving T-Mac to much credit

Now that he has a team around him let's see what he does with it.

[dirk4mvp]

Now that he has a team around him let's see what he does with it.


well he's had the best center in the league on his team for a few years now.

[The Franchise]

well he's had the best center in the league on his team for a few years now.

Yeah but Yaos' been hurt. Even if he was healthy though it would still take better talent than they had. This year T-mac has no excuse. His team is loaded, so I expect him to dominate not having to be doubled everytime he touches the ball.

[IronMexican]

Now that he has a team around him let's see what he does with it.

:lmao

[rj215]

Jordan>Kobe>Lebron>TMac

[TheMACHINE]

Jordan>Kobe>Lebron>TMac

[angelbelow]

i think physically tmac had more talent than kobe. but kobe is by far superior to tmac. reasons to why probably include kobes work ethic, tmacs health, kobes competitiveness,, etc etc.

[Many PackYao]

On offense T-mac and Kobe are probably comparable. On defense though, Kobe clearly outshines him. In terms of killer instinct and will to win (i.e. the intangibles) Kobe again wins.

It's not really a comparison.
Unfortunately for me as Rockets fan, this is true.:depressed

[IronMexican]

Unfortunately for me as Rockets fan, this is true.:depressed

I would like to applaud this Rocket fan. Manny PackYao, and Guerilla Black are the only non douche Rocket fans i've seen.

[Strike]

Nah, as far as I know, none of us Laker fans have ever said that Kobe > Jordan.

:lmao

Are you kidding?

[Lakers2009champs]

KOBE IS THE GOAT.

JUST BOOK IT.

Without Pippen, Jordan has ZERO RINGS.


Kobe took his team to the finals without shaq.

*If it wasn't for the rape scandal, Kobe the GOAT will bigger than he already is now.

[dirk4mvp]

I would like to applaud this Rocket fan. Manny PackYao, and Guerilla Black are the only non douche Rocket fans i've seen.



same can be said about laker fans. you and like maybe one other one are tolerbale and don't sound like complete dipshits when they post.



Without Pippen, Jordan has ZERO RINGS.

surely you're not serious.

[angelbelow]

KOBE IS THE GOAT.

JUST BOOK IT.

Without Pippen, Jordan has ZERO RINGS.


Kobe took his team to the finals without shaq.

*If it wasn't for the rape scandal, Kobe the GOAT will bigger than he already is now.

nice!

[Medvedenko]

Kobe=Jordan when it's all said and done.

[stretch]

Kobe=Jordan when it's all said and done.

no.

[monosylab1k]

i think physically tmac had more talent than kobe. but kobe is by far superior to tmac. reasons to why probably include kobes work ethic, tmacs health, kobes competitiveness,, etc etc.

I really don't know about T-Mac being more talented, I've heard it a lot now and I don't buy it. I like T-Mac but I've never been as impressed with his game as much as everyone else. As far as quickness and athleticism, maybe T-Mac has more than Kobe, but then again so does Amare and he's not even among the top 20 best in the game.

I say when it comes to straight up talent and ability to play the game, not even LeBron is as good as Kobe. Kobe is unmatched.

[monosylab1k]

And it's just comical to hear the Kobe knobslobbers.

Jordan > Kobe and that shit will never ever ever ever ever fucking change. That's like a Colts fan saying Manning > Montana.

[Medvedenko]

And it's just comical to hear the Kobe knobslobbers.

Jordan > Kobe and that shit will never ever ever ever ever fucking change. That's like a Colts fan saying Manning > Montana.

Well, it may not change for you, however it has changed for me though. I grew up watching MJ and also have watched Kobe grow up. My mind was changed.

[rj215]

Well, it may not change for you, however it has changed for me though. I grew up watching MJ and also have watched Kobe grow up. My mind was changed.

Jordan isn't just better than Kobe, he's better than any player that ever played in the NBA. I watched both growing up. I even got a chance to watch Kobe when he played in high school near where I grew up. Kobe is Jordan-lite.

At the same time, I'm not going to say Jordan's game didn't have flaws (lack of consistant 3pt shot and um...I guess that was it) but he knew better than any player when to take over a game and was at his best when it mattered most. And lastly, I know this might rile up some Kobe-ites but Jordan doesn't lose to or get shown up by Paul Pierce.

[stretch]

Well, it may not change for you, however it has changed for me though. I grew up watching MJ and also have watched Kobe grow up. My mind was changed.

so what will make Kobe equal to Jordan? Well, actually you said your mind is changed now, so that means you think they already are equal. why?

[stretch]

I really don't know about T-Mac being more talented, I've heard it a lot now and I don't buy it. I like T-Mac but I've never been as impressed with his game as much as everyone else.

better shooting ability. better court vision. better finisher. more creative passer. more athletically gifted. IMO everything that Kobe can do in terms of skills, T-Mac is capable of doing just as well, if not better. i cant think of a single skill that Kobe is really capable of doing better than T-Mac. equal? yes. better? no. unfortunately for T-Mac, injuries and a lack of a drive to win seriously held him back.

[monosylab1k]

better shooting ability. better court vision. better finisher. more creative passer. more athletically gifted. IMO everything that Kobe can do in terms of skills, T-Mac is capable of doing just as well, if not better. i cant think of a single skill that Kobe is really capable of doing better than T-Mac. equal? yes. better? no. unfortunately for T-Mac, injuries and a lack of a drive to win seriously held him back.

I don't see it and the numbers don't really show it either. Career-wise and in most year to year numbers, Kobe has a higher shooting percentage than T-Mac, and that's saying something considering all the terrible shots Kobe takes. Their assist numbers are about even, and T-Mac rebounds slightly better but then he's a few inches taller too.

And watching them both I really don't see it. With Kobe, everything he does grabs your attention, while T-Mac can drift in and out of games. And of course on defense there's really no comparison.

It really seems to me that even as great as T-Mac is and even greater that LeBron is, there's still something missing when you compare them to Kobe. IMO those guys are freakishly great athletes who chose to play basketball, meanwhile Kobe was simply born to play the game. I don't know I guess I can't put exactly what it is.

[hitmanyr2k]

Kobe=Jordan when it's all said and done.

Nah, that's not gonna happen. Every now and then someone comes along that transcends his/her sport, occupation, whatever. They basically have it all...talent, accomplishments, charisma, fame that reaches across the globe, and most of all they're viewed as winners. These type of people become larger than their sport and become legends. Jordan is that kind of person.

Kobe isn't...he's more of a spin-off of a legend. He's talented but doesn't have the brainpower to use his gifts correctly. He's a winner but a lot of his success came early and as a subordinate. He's likeable I guess but at the same time still polarizing to many people. Winning would cure that but that's where the problem lies. He's going 6 years and counting with no titles and that's what it's all about. You're not going to be equal to a legend if you're not a consistent winner.

To put it in martial arts terms Jordan is Bruce Lee. He's legendary, will be remembered forever and 25-30 years from now people may still be comparing the young upstarts to him (unless Lebron takes that mantle).

Kobe is Bruce Li, Bruce Le, Dragon Lee, or whatever other spin-off you can name. After Bruce was gone they were desperately trying to find someone to replace him. All of imitators could punch and kick like Bruce and imitate all of his mannerisms but at the end of the day everybody knew they were 2nd rate. It's the same deal with Kobe. The last 6 years have pretty much guaranteed he's not going to be on Jordan's level.

[Medvedenko]

Nah, that's not gonna happen. Every now and then someone comes along that transcends his/her sport, occupation, whatever. They basically have it all...talent, accomplishments, charisma, fame that reaches across the globe, and most of all they're viewed as winners. These type of people become larger than their sport and become legends. Jordan is that kind of person.

Kobe isn't...he's more of a spin-off of a legend. He's talented but doesn't have the brainpower to use his gifts correctly. He's a winner but a lot of his success came early and as a subordinate. He's likeable I guess but at the same time still polarizing to many people. Winning would cure that but that's where the problem lies. He's going 6 years and counting with no titles and that's what it's all about. You're not going to be equal to a legend if you're not a consistent winner.

To put it in martial arts terms Jordan is Bruce Lee. He's legendary, will be remembered forever and 25-30 years from now people may still be comparing the young upstarts to him (unless Lebron takes that mantle).

Kobe is Bruce Li, Bruce Le, Dragon Lee, or whatever other spin-off you can name. After Bruce was gone they were desperately trying to find someone to replace him. All of imitators could punch and kick like Bruce and imitate all of his mannerisms but at the end of the day everybody knew they were 2nd rate. It's the same deal with Kobe. The last 6 years have pretty much guaranteed he's not going to be on Jordan's level.

You make some good points, but you're a bulls fan and I'm a Laker fan. Like I said when it's all said and done, Kobe will be =. In my book he already is as an individual player. Remember, you take team accomplishments and say that trumps everything....I'm not talking about team accomplishments, and if you are, well then Lakers VS Bulls is no contest.