Europe´s view of the race for the white house

[Kamnik]

Some people here may support McCain more but the overwhelming majority would rather see Obama win.

When i talk to my friends and co-workers it seems they are all surprised how 1/2 of America supports someone who is from the same party and not that very diferent than Bush. (well for McCain´s defence... it is obvious he is 89723 times smarter than Bush; but still... almost the same view of the world and problems in it)

Basically Bush is someone who people use as a synonime for someone who is dumb. Not the best thing if we realise that the american president is usually the most powerful person in the world.

Now... I/We do not see Obama as someone who would be perfect but surely as someone who must win in order for the world politics to turn around a little. Bush made so much damage in the world (and to the good name of the USA) that a republican president surely will not be able to change that.

Allthough... McCain is quite charismatic and knows what to say to please the majority so in the end... he probably has a better chance of winning because Obama will turn off a lot of voters simply because of the reason he is black.




p.s.

Is it automatic that a president is the party´s main candidate for another term after serving 5 years or is it possible (and, did it happen in the past) that party may decide to push someone else for the candidacy?

[fyatuk]

Some people here may support McCain more but the overwhelming majority would rather see Obama win.

That's not exactly saying much. It would be amazing if Europe supported the more conservative candidate.


Is it automatic that a president is the party´s main candidate for another term after serving 5 years or is it possible (and, did it happen in the past) that party may decide to push someone else for the candidacy?

4 years, and almost guaranteed. Obviously, if there's no chance they'll win (such as if Bush could attempt a 3rd term), then no, but if they can even be competitive, they'll be nom'd again.

[Clandestino]

Also, nobody in the U.S. cares what the rest of the world wants. The majority of Americans would have a hard time finding any other country except for Canada or Mexico on a world map either.

Also, why wouldnt Europe or many other countries like Obama? He is a Socialist just like them.

[boutons_]

"He is a Socialist" factless slime alert

[Clandestino]

Look at this policies. They are all socialist policies. There is no way to spin universal healthcare and all the other bullshit policies he has. He makes it so that those who work hard have to give their money to people like you who do nothing for society.

[101A]

The fact that Euro's want Obama probably helps McCain.

[Kamnik]

That's not exactly saying much. It would be amazing if Europe supported the more conservative candidate.



Not really... Here conservative and liberal parties are basically 50-50 in strength. Some major Euro countries like German, Italy and France have conservatives leading atm.

Even though it is true that "Euro conservative" is quite diferent as "American conservative". Liberal views on both sides of the ocean are more similar imo.

Main problem with McCain is that he is somewhat of the same beliefs/party as Bush... And Bush is as popular as herpes in most of Europe.

[fyatuk]

Main problem with McCain is that he is somewhat of the same beliefs/party as Bush... And Bush is as popular as herpes in most of Europe.

I don't see them much of the same at all. Bush is much more socially conservative and much more big government than McCain is. They're both cocky SOBs though.

[Kamnik]

Imo another problem for the democrats is that Bush was/is so uncharismatic and stupid looking that McCain looks the same of a huge upgrade as Obama does.

And by stupid I dont mean to be insultive but when I looked through republican and democratic debates half a year ago ALL of the 15 or so candidates looked smarter/better/more charismatic than Bush is.

[101A]

Not really... Here conservative and liberal parties are basically 50-50 in strength. Some major Euro countries like German, Italy and France have conservatives leading atm.

Even though it is true that "Euro conservative" is quite diferent as "American conservative". Liberal views on both sides of the ocean are more similar imo.

Main problem with McCain is that he is somewhat of the same beliefs/party as Bush... And Bush is as popular as herpes in most of Europe.


McCain was reviled in most Republican circles, but many held their noses and voted for him; because he was the Republican furthest from Bush in ideology. You are misinformed (not surprising).

BTW: Most European conservatives would be liberals in the U.S.

[fyatuk]

And by stupid I dont mean to be insultive but when I looked through republican and democratic debates half a year ago ALL of the 15 or so candidates looked smarter/better/more charismatic than Bush is.

Bush is certainly not the smartest tool in the shed. He's not stupid either. He's probably right about average on the intelligence chart, he's just a really bad speaker. Bush would have been a much better President if he didn't fill his cabinet with his dad's cronies and then listen way too much to them.

The biggest problem is the Dems keep nominating their most liberal members. If they nominated a moderate, they win in a reagan/mondale like landslide. Of course, this is the first time they've nominated an even remotely likeable guy since Clinton (of course, Clinton also turned out to be relatively moderate, including signing several things like the DoMA that appeals to conservatives), so it could be more interesting than the last elections.

Something like 60% of the country will disagree with Obama's stances (US breaks down to 40% conservative, 40% liberal, 20% moderate roughly IIRC), so it'll really come down to whether the moderates hate his stances or the Republican party more. McCain's done a fairly good job of distancing himself from Bush and showing that he works with both parties, so he probably has a bit of an edge with the true moderates.

[fyatuk]

BTW: Most European conservatives would be liberals in the U.S.

Barely. I think most Euro conservatives are equivalent to left leaning moderates in the US, and maybe even true moderates by our standards. There are parties that agree with middle republicans, but they seem to be considered fringe in Europe. As far as I can tell from my spot in Central Texas anyway. Not like I've ever been or will ever get a chance to go to Europe.

[Kamnik]

Maybe out of the topic.... but I just though of something.

America developed a political system and thinking quite diferent from other countries (europe, and many other parts of the world) because you did not have a war on your soil (mainland) in 150 years or so. (and even then it was a civil war)

Europe developed so diferently because there were countless wars in the last century or so.

[DarkReign]

Maybe out of the topic.... but I just though of something.

America developed a political system and thinking quite diferent from other countries (europe, and many other parts of the world) because you did not have a war on your soil (mainland) in 150 years or so. (and even then it was a civil war)

Europe developed so diferently because there were countless wars in the last century or so.

Huh?

By "political system" I would hope you werent referring to democracy. Its much older than the US. But I'll assume you knew that.

What I think youre saying is, America's political landscape was shaped entirely different from Europe over the past century or so because we have never fought a war on our soil.

And while I have never looked at it that way, I am inclined to agree. Losing 20% (another 20% wounded or so) of your male population in less than 10 years has a way of changing the very identity of your nation/continent.

As it were, I am not swayed one way or the other on which system is better. What I do know is the combined European Union is kicking the USA's ass economically. It finally took over as the largest GDP in the world (at least, I just noticed anyway).

What I do know is that I love my country, but hate my government. I dont care if theyre Republican (conservative) or Democrat (liberal). I hate politicians, I hate bureaucracies, I hate secrecy, I hate class warfare, I hate greed, I hate everything every government stands for the world over.

They are nothing more than a necessary evil, because humans in general are the most notoriously inhumane animal the world has ever seen. Left to our own devices with no authority, we'd all be enslaved to someone who won more than we did eventually.

War shapes everything in history, no different then to now. But there hasnt been a single, unified power in the history of man as militarily powerful as the United States. Rome at its height is of no comparison, militarily speaking (maybe even culturally).

As it were, I agree with your point that our political landscape was shaped in a vacuum in comparison to Europe's. But then again, we didnt have the constant neighbor-aggression Europe lives/lived with and glaring cultural/language differences only a few hundred/thousand miles away from one another.

I personally feel America has nothing in common with Europe beyond NATO. Europe's problems should be just that....Europe's problems. Because outside a military agreement, the EU is as large a competitor to the US as China (economically speaking). So IMO, our relationship with Europe is nothing more than "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

[DarrinS]

Basically Bush is someone who people use as a synonime for someone who is dumb.


Sweet sweet irony.

[Gino]

Who's Europe?

Is that the continent we protected from the USSR for a long time?

[101A]

The World also doesn't believe Al Queda was behind 9/11. (http://www.newsmeat.com/news/meat.php?articleId=32140442&channelId=2951&buyerId=newsmeatcom&buid=3281) Glad we don't have to follow their lead.

[Kamnik]

Sweet sweet irony.

If you are reffering to my grammatical mistakes.... English is one of 5 languages I speak so excuse me if I am not perfect in it.

[Kamnik]

Huh?

By "political system" I would hope you werent referring to democracy. Its much older than the US. But I'll assume you knew that.

What I think youre saying is, America's political landscape was shaped entirely different from Europe over the past century or so because we have never fought a war on our soil.

And while I have never looked at it that way, I am inclined to agree. Losing 20% (another 20% wounded or so) of your male population in less than 10 years has a way of changing the very identity of your nation/continent.

As it were, I am not swayed one way or the other on which system is better. What I do know is the combined European Union is kicking the USA's ass economically. It finally took over as the largest GDP in the world (at least, I just noticed anyway).

What I do know is that I love my country, but hate my government. I dont care if theyre Republican (conservative) or Democrat (liberal). I hate politicians, I hate bureaucracies, I hate secrecy, I hate class warfare, I hate greed, I hate everything every government stands for the world over.

They are nothing more than a necessary evil, because humans in general are the most notoriously inhumane animal the world has ever seen. Left to our own devices with no authority, we'd all be enslaved to someone who won more than we did eventually.

War shapes everything in history, no different then to now. But there hasnt been a single, unified power in the history of man as militarily powerful as the United States. Rome at its height is of no comparison, militarily speaking (maybe even culturally).

As it were, I agree with your point that our political landscape was shaped in a vacuum in comparison to Europe's. But then again, we didnt have the constant neighbor-aggression Europe lives/lived with and glaring cultural/language differences only a few hundred/thousand miles away from one another.

I personally feel America has nothing in common with Europe beyond NATO. Europe's problems should be just that....Europe's problems. Because outside a military agreement, the EU is as large a competitor to the US as China (economically speaking). So IMO, our relationship with Europe is nothing more than "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Nicely written....

Basically the problem in USA and in several (most) European countries is that the defacto rule is really rich and powerful individuals who we do not see in the news etc. They influence things from behind for their own good; their company empire.

In my country (Slovenia) politics is heavily influenced by powerful and rich people from the "shadows".

So someone who really wants to do good/changes usually cant even come near powerful political positions.

[Anti.Hero]

The rest of the world can go fuck itself.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Sweet sweet irony.


If you are reffering to my grammatical mistakes.... English is one of 5 languages I speak so excuse me if I am not perfect in it.

:lmao pwned!

[whottt]

The rest of the world preferred Kerry in 04 too...

In fact British Citizens started writing letters to Citizens of Ohio telling them why they should vote for Kerry.


I think that was one of the main reasons Bush won in 04.

[smeagol]

The World also doesn't believe Al Queda was behind 9/11. (http://www.newsmeat.com/news/meat.php?articleId=32140442&channelId=2951&buyerId=newsmeatcom&buid=3281) Glad we don't have to follow their lead.

As stupid as those people who believe the American Government is behind 9/11 are, I don't think those numbers from polling "The World", differ too much from what people believe in the US.

[Kamnik]

The rest of the world preferred Kerry in 04 too..

Man... the rest of the world would prefer Paris Hilton if Bush is the other option.

I think noone really liked Kerry as he wasnt too charismatic.


Obama >>>>> McCain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bush

[Kamnik]

:lmao pwned!

That is something that is so damn ironic at this forum.... when people who speak just 1 or 2 languages start mocking gramatical mistakes of others.

Even worse is when some random chinese(or so) fan joins; does his best to put a few sentences together and then some shitheads respond with mockery and jokes to his language.

[efrem1]

Nobody asked me on who to support in the Canadian elections next month. I think Stephen Harper will pick up a few seats, but will still be in minority government. Obama and the NDP are carbon copies of each other.

[efrem1]

Maybe out of the topic.... but I just though of something.

America developed a political system and thinking quite diferent from other countries (europe, and many other parts of the world) because you did not have a war on your soil (mainland) in 150 years or so. (and even then it was a civil war)

Europe developed so diferently because there were countless wars in the last century or so.

The federal system in America is designed to remove a concentration of strength in one particular branch of government. We wanted to avoid the parliamentary system of government because it is so unstable (witness Italy) or our fear that power is too concerntated in one branch.

I did not like what the UK describes about its Parliament:

"Parliamentary sovereignty is a principle of the UK constitution. It makes Parliament the supreme legal authority in the UK, which can create or end any law. Generally, the courts cannot overrule its legislation and no Parliament can pass laws that future Parliaments cannot change. Parliamentary sovereignty is the most important part of the UK constitution."

Many freedoms are put in peril by whatever Parliament decides. I am glad we have checks and balances.

[Supergirl]

Imo another problem for the democrats is that Bush was/is so uncharismatic and stupid looking that McCain looks the same of a huge upgrade as Obama does.

And by stupid I dont mean to be insultive but when I looked through republican and democratic debates half a year ago ALL of the 15 or so candidates looked smarter/better/more charismatic than Bush is.

This is actually dead WRONG. Bush is stupid, but the reason he won was because people PERCEIVED him as being the "guy they most wanted to have a beer with" - this was an actual poll I remember during the 2000 election. It held over to 2004.

No one wants to have a beer with McCain. He'd fall asleep in it. And he needs all the brain cells he has left.

Obama is BY FAR the most charismatic of all of the candidates. Biden and Wackjob are probably in a tie for second - it depends entirely on your views which one you could stand to have a beer with because they both tend to be windbags with a lot of opinions.

McSame is the gross uncle you leave at home because he's too embarrassing to be seen in public with.

[101A]

This is actually dead WRONG. Bush is stupid, but the reason he won was because people PERCEIVED him as being the "guy they most wanted to have a beer with" - this was an actual poll I remember during the 2000 election. It held over to 2004.

No one wants to have a beer with McCain. He'd fall asleep in it. And he needs all the brain cells he has left.

Obama is BY FAR the most charismatic of all of the candidates. Biden and Wackjob are probably in a tie for second - it depends entirely on your views which one you could stand to have a beer with because they both tend to be windbags with a lot of opinions.

McSame is the gross uncle you leave at home because he's too embarrassing to be seen in public with.

I don't think Obama drinks beer; unless they now ferment arugula.

Bush and Kerry both went to Yale.

Guess who had the higher GPA?

[Clandestino]

This is actually dead WRONG. Bush is stupid, but the reason he won was because people PERCEIVED him as being the "guy they most wanted to have a beer with" - this was an actual poll I remember during the 2000 election. It held over to 2004.

No one wants to have a beer with McCain. He'd fall asleep in it. And he needs all the brain cells he has left.

Obama is BY FAR the most charismatic of all of the candidates. Biden and Wackjob are probably in a tie for second - it depends entirely on your views which one you could stand to have a beer with because they both tend to be windbags with a lot of opinions.

McSame is the gross uncle you leave at home because he's too embarrassing to be seen in public with.

itd be boring as fuck drinking with obama.... he'd be all high and mighty and uptight and shit.

with mccain, he'd have bad ass stories.

biden.... :sleep

palin... i'd be trying to bang her!

[Wild Cobra]

Why does any American care about pleasing other nations before our own?

Must have yellow blood in your veins rather than red.