Raptors To Play Bargnani At Small Forward?

[Spurs Brazil]

Raptors To Play Bargnani At Small Forward?


Sep 10, 2008 11:39 AM EST
During a broadcast on the FAN 590 on Tuesday, Raptors president and general manager Bryan Colangelo mentioned that Andrea Bargnani might see some time at small forward this season in a gigantic starting lineup with Chris Bosh and Jermaine O'Neal.
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/54344/20080910/raptors_to_play_bargnani_at_small_forward/

[lefty]

He's kind of slow to play at the SF position.

And if you look at the other East rivals, Prince, Levron and Pierce are quicker

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

He's not going to play defense against anyone you put him on so what does it matter?

[lefty]

He's not going to play defense against anyone you put him on so what does it matter?

True

[The Franchise]

That might actually work in short stretches.

[DPG21920]

I still think Bargs is going to be a nice player

[Indazone]

Bargnani isn't a low post player. He's like most FIBA players who shun contact, don't play defense and like to launch 3 pointers. But he could be at least as effective as AK47 and add size to that Raptors frontline.

[DPG21920]

I would take him on the Spurs in a heartbeat.

[timvp]

The sooner the Raptors realize Bustnani is a bust and move on, the better. His upside is a softer version of Austin Croshere.

[anakha]

Might as well, since starting him at center was pretty much a failure. :lol

[JMarkJohns]

The sooner the Raptors realize Bustnani is a bust and move on, the better. His upside is a softer version of Austin Croshere.

Agreed. I couldn't believe they didn't take Aldridge or Roy. For all the success Colangelo had drafting in Phoenix, taking Bargnani has proven quite the opposite.

Can you imagine that team with Roy? He was undervalued the way Pierce and Caron Butler were, and a ton of people knew it. Obviously those people weren't the ones making the selections, though...

[DPG21920]

The sooner the Raptors realize Bustnani is a bust and move on, the better. His upside is a softer version of Austin Croshere.

Way too early to call him a bust. He is only 23, played in the league for only 2 years and he has averaged double digit scoring in both years, including a nice first playoff appearance. Given, he followed that up with a piss poor playoffs, and sub-par year. He has a ton to work on, but he is not a bust.

[DPG21920]

Here is just a little bit on him. He is not wowing anyone, but he is not a bust:

(From Wiki)
As the mid-season approached, Bargnani was selected as NBA's Eastern Conference Rookie of the Month (January 2007), joining fellow teammate Jorge Garbajosa (winner of the award in December 2006) as the sixth Raptors player to win the monthly honor. Together with Garbajosa, Bargnani was also selected to play in the T-Mobile Rookie Challenge game. After the All-Star break, Bargnani continued to work on his defense and shooting (averaging 14.3 points per game (ppg) and 3.9 rebounds per game (rpg) in 12 games for the month of February 2007), and he was selected as the Eastern Conference Rookie of the Month for the second straight time on 1 March 2007. Bargnani became the third Raptor ever to win the award twice, joining Vince Carter and Damon Stoudamire.

On 21 March 2007, Bargnani underwent emergency appendectomy surgery after being taken to hospital following illness experienced after practice the night before. He recovered after about a month, and ended the season, averaging 11.6 points and 3.9 rebounds per game. His performances were credited as helping the Raptors win their first ever Division title, as well as their first NBA Playoffs berth in five years; Bargnani came in second for NBA Rookie of the Year. In the 2007 NBA Playoffs, Bargnani averaged 11.0 ppg and 4.0 rpg as the Raptors were defeated by the New Jersey Nets 4–2 in the first round. On 8 May 2007, Bargnani and Garbajosa were named to the NBA All-Rookie team.

[timvp]

Way too early to call him a bust. He is only 23, played in the league for only 2 years and he has averaged double digit scoring in both years, including a nice first playoff appearance. Given, he followed that up with a piss poor playoffs, and sub-par year. He has a ton to work on, but he is not a bust.

As a number one overall draft pick, Bustnani is certainly a bust. I've seen him play a whole lot and there is literally not a softer player in the league. Combine that with his poor attitude and that negates whatever talent he has.

He'll be a serviceable player because he's tall and can shoot but he'll never live up to the number one overall billing. And thus, he's a bust.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

bargnani is the reason i dislike the raptors he is so hyped over here and has proven nothing...BUST

[angelbelow]

hes still got time, im not ready to label him a bust, actually i dont really give a fuck.

[Tully365]

Trying him out at SF is at least a good idea. Instead of trying to do what doesn't come naturally to him-- muscling shots up inside over guys that are 6'10" or 7'-- he'll be taking jumpers over 6'6"-6'9" guys on the perimeter. It does give the Raptors a huge front line. He has shown he's not a banger, so why not let him try to thrive as a tall swing player?

[DPG21920]

As a number one overall draft pick, Bustnani is certainly a bust. I've seen him play a whole lot and there is literally not a softer player in the league. Combine that with his poor attitude and that negates whatever talent he has.

He'll be a serviceable player because he's tall and can shoot but he'll never live up to the number one overall billing. And thus, he's a bust.

A bust according to who, you? I watch the Raptors play all the time as well. His rookie year he was runner up for rookie of the year, how much do you want from the first round pick? I mean if you draft a guy number one, you want him to be in the running for ROY, right? He was and he finished second. He averaged double digits and had a very strong playoff showing.

I will go through the list of #1 draft picks (exlcuding this years because the season has not been played) and look at who won rookie of the year and show their stats:

#1 Picks
2007 - Greg Oden
2006 - Andrea Bargnani
2005 - Andrew Bogut
2004 - Dwight Howard
2003 - Lebron James
2002 - Yao Ming
2001 - Kwame Brown
2000 - Kenyon Martin
1999 - Elton Brand
1998 - Michael Olowokandi
1997 - Tim Duncan

Rookies of the year/ runner up
2007 - Kevin Durant/Al Horford
2006 - Brandon Roy/ Andrea Bargnani
2005 - Chris Paul/ Charlie Villanueva
2004 - Emeka Okafor/ Ben Gordon
2003 - Lebron/ Melo
2002 - Amare Stoudemire/ Yao
2001 - Gasol/ Richard Jefferson
2000 - Mike Miller/ Kenyon Martin
1999 - Elton Brand/ Steve Francis
1998 - Vince Carter/ Jason Willams
1997 - Tim Duncan/ Keith Van Horn

Greg Oden you can omit because he was injured, but as you can see a lot of number one picks did not even finish in the top two in ROY voting. The ones that won are the leagues elite. Andrea is not a bust, even by number one standards. Judging by the last ten years of first rounders, he is not all that bad.

Here are the number one draft picks numbers their first two years (because that is all that Bargnani has played):


2007 - Greg Oden DNP
2006 - Andrea Bargnani 24 mpg, 10.8 pts, 3.8 reb, 1 ast 40% FG
2005 - Andrew Bogut 31 mpg, 10.8 pts, 8 reb, 2.6 ast, 54% FG
2004 - Dwight Howard 34 mpg, 13.5 pts, 11 reb, 1 ast, 52% FG
2003 - Lebron James 40 mpg, 24 pts, 6.5 reb, 6.5 ast, 44% FG
2002 - Yao Ming 30 mpg, 15 pts, 8.5 reb, 1.5 ast, 51% FG
2001 - Kwame Brown 18 mpg, 6 pts, 4 reb, .8 ast, 41% FG
2000 - Kenyon Martin 33 mpg, 13 pts, 6 reb, 2 ast, 45% FG
1999 - Elton Brand 38 mpg, 20 pts, 10 reb, 2 ast, 48% FG
1998 - Michael Olowokandi 30 m, 9.5 pts, 8 reb, .5 ast, 43% FG
1997 - Tim Duncan 39 mpg, 21 pts, 11.5 reb, 2.5 ast, 51% FG

So as you can see, after the first two years, he compares ok with most of the first picks. You might be able to nit pick some details, but he fairs well. He has scored double digits in both of his years and he has averaged less minutes in his first two years than all but 1 of the players on the list. This is all with a worse second year than first, which is odd.

Is he an elite first pick? No. Is it way to early to call him a bust, especially when examining this list? Yes. Just because you are a #1 pick does not mean you are supposed to be a hall of famer. It means you should be at the top of your draft class. With the exception of Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge, Rudy Gay and Rondo, he is. That is not bad. Being arguably the 5th best player in your draft and being young is a pretty good haul.

You are entitled to your opinion I guess, but there is not really any substance behind your claims. I watch a ton of games for every team, and I think he has noticeable talent. Lets wait a few years to pass judgment.

[Kamnik]

If Raptors are smart they trade him until he looses all the value he has left.

[timtonymanu]

I will go through the list of #1 draft picks (exlcuding this years because the season has not been played) and look at who won rookie of the year and show their stats:


Rookies of the year/ runner up
2007 - Kevin Durant/Al Horford
2006 - Brandon Roy/ Andrea Bargnani
2005 - Chris Paul/ Charlie Villanueva
2004 - Emeka Okafor/ Ben Gordon
2003 - Lebron/ Melo
2002 - Amare Stoudemire/ Yao
2001 - Gasol/ Richard Jefferson
2000 - Mike Miller/ Kenyon Martin
1999 - Elton Brand/ Steve Francis
1998 - Vince Carter/ Jason Willams
1997 - Tim Duncan/ Keith Van Horn



it's funny how half of these guys sucked afterwards.

[mrspurs]

The sooner the Raptors realize Bustnani is a bust and move on, the better. His upside is a softer version of Austin Croshere.

Aint that the truth

[Indazone]

it's funny how half of these guys sucked afterwards.

Which half, cause they all look like they had pretty good NBA careers to me.

[Trainwreck2100]

I give it 10 games before o'neal is out for the season

[DPG21920]

Which half, cause they all look like they had pretty good NBA careers to me.

[dirk4mvp]

Where are the raptor fans that claimed he'd be better than Dirk? :lol

[timvp]

A bust according to who, you? I watch the Raptors play all the time as well. His rookie year he was runner up for rookie of the year, how much do you want from the first round pick? Runner up when he was one of two rookies to play a major role on their team isn't that great of an accomplishment. The rookie play that season was statistically proven to be the worst in history. A lot of the players ending up blooming in their second year, but that first year Bustnani was force fed a major role and had name recognition. Those two things allowed him to garner one first place vote, IIRC.


Here are the number one draft picks numbers their first two years (because that is all that Bargnani has played):


2007 - Greg Oden DNP
2006 - Andrea Bargnani 24 mpg, 10.8 pts, 3.8 reb, 1 ast 40% FG
2005 - Andrew Bogut 31 mpg, 10.8 pts, 8 reb, 2.6 ast, 54% FG
2004 - Dwight Howard 34 mpg, 13.5 pts, 11 reb, 1 ast, 52% FG
2003 - Lebron James 40 mpg, 24 pts, 6.5 reb, 6.5 ast, 44% FG
2002 - Yao Ming 30 mpg, 15 pts, 8.5 reb, 1.5 ast, 51% FG
2001 - Kwame Brown 18 mpg, 6 pts, 4 reb, .8 ast, 41% FG
2000 - Kenyon Martin 33 mpg, 13 pts, 6 reb, 2 ast, 45% FG
1999 - Elton Brand 38 mpg, 20 pts, 10 reb, 2 ast, 48% FG
1998 - Michael Olowokandi 30 m, 9.5 pts, 8 reb, .5 ast, 43% FG
1997 - Tim Duncan 39 mpg, 21 pts, 11.5 reb, 2.5 ast, 51% FG

So as you can see, after the first two years, he compares ok with most of the first picks. :lol

You just owned yourself. Look at those stats and see that Kwame Brown and Bustnani had by far the worst numbers. The step up from those two players to the third worst player is a huge step. Are you going to argue that Kwame Brown isn't a bust?

Even if you factor in minutes, Bustnani still shows as a one-dimensional gunner who does nothing else but score. And that's exactly what he is.


It means you should be at the top of your draft class. With the exception of Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge, Rudy Gay and Rondo, he is. That is not bad. Being arguably the 5th best player in your draft and being young is a pretty good haul. Be prepared to add Tyrus Thomas and Randy Foye to that mix.

And being a bust isn't about how many people are better than him. If he was a good player that happened to be in a draft with a ton of talent, he wouldn't be called a bust.

He's a bust because he just not a good player. He does nothing but score. He's one of the worst rebounding bigmen in the league. He doesn't block shots. He doesn't defend. He doesn't pass. He's not going to suddenly be able to do those things as time goes along. And on top of those negative attributes, he has a rep for being lazy and has a bad attitude.

He's talented enough to one day average a good amount of points but that won't hide the fact that he's nothing close to what he was projected to be coming out of Europe. Scouts were calling him a more athletic version of Dirk ... he ended up being a worse rebounding, worse passing version of Antoine Walker without the shimmy.

The Raptors themselves obviously already began admitting their mistake by going out and trading for Jermaine O'Neal. If Bustnani was the emerging stud you make him out to be, do you really think they would have traded for a center? Wouldn't they be making room for baby Larry Bird to excel?

But yeah if you think a first overall pick that does nothing but score while shooting at a low percentage isn't a bust ... I'm not sure what to tell you.


You are entitled to your opinion I guess, but there is not really any substance behind your claims. :rolleyes

I'm sorry I couldn't produce a self-owning chart.

Oh and who did Andre Iguodala end up signing with? I seem to remember someone named DPG telling me he was going to leave Philly because Philly wasn't going to offer more money than they did last year because a blog said so.

:stirpot:

[lefty]

Bargnagna disappoints me.

He impressed me as a Rookie, and I was raving about him @ Spurstalk.

Timvp is right, Bargnagna = Bustnani

[Sissiborgo]

He's way to slow for a SF... And that's not a good idea to make him play SF..:toast

[DPG21920]

Is he an elite first pick? No. Is it way to early to call him a bust, especially when examining this list? Yes. Just because you are a #1 pick does not mean you are supposed to be a hall of famer. It means you should be at the top of your draft class. With the exception of Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge, Rudy Gay and Rondo, he is. That is not bad. Being arguably the 5th best player in your draft and being young is a pretty good haul.

You are entitled to your opinion I guess, but there is not really any substance behind your claims. I watch a ton of games for every team, and I think he has noticeable talent. Lets wait a few years to pass judgment.

[resistanze]

Rudy Gay, Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Alridge, Randy Foye? Fuck those dudes. We got Bargnani!

[DPG21920]

That is the point, none of those guys are superstars. It was a weak draft. So just because you go number 1 in a weak draft does not mean you are supposed to be magically held to some standard. You have to be one of the best in your draft class and he is. Also he has only played for two years; that is too small of a sample size.

[resistanze]

Unfortuately, Bargnani is regressing. He's a poor rebounder and his shot selections negates the fact that he's a big man capable of shooting the rock; hence he shots like 40% from the field.

I honestly don't see how he was going to fit with the Raps in the first place, they commited to Rasho at center and had Bosh at the four. Rather than soldifiying the swingman position, they got Bargnani? It didn't help that Colangelo was in bed with that fucking Italian scout who knew Bargnani.

[DPG21920]

He obviously regressed in his second year, and that is hard to explain. If he continues to do so, then you can call him a bust. My point is that his first year play (especially in the playoffs) warrants some patience. Although he did regress, he has shown flashes.

[ploto]

Considering I watched more Raptors action over the past 2 years- on TV and in person- than just about anyone here, I will comment:

A guy whose main claim is that he can shoot should not shoot the absolute worst FG% on the entire team! And it was not because he was trying something new. He was awful from the outside wide open (35 % 3-pt line).

As for SF, he will get killed. He can not defend a guy on the perimeter to save his life. Guess Moon will get benched now for Andrea. Can not wait to watch him guard LeBron and Pierce.

I wanted to like Andrea but the excuses made for him all he time by management made fans dislike him. He also is a guy who floats around for long stretches and does nothing. If his shot is not falling, he disappears completely from the game.

Worst of all is that he does not listen to people. He had problems with not doing what coaches told him he needed to work on and he did not listen to those players with more experience from whom he could learn.

[timvp]

Checkmate.

Especially considering ploto would like nothing more than to disagree with what timvp says :lol

[DPG21920]

He is young, if he learns to listen and learns how much work it takes to be successful in this league he will do well. If not, he will go no where, just like all other players.

[DPG21920]

Checkmate.

Especially considering ploto would like nothing more than to disagree with what timvp says :lol

Not even close, considering I have quantifiable evidence that contrast your opinions!

[DPG21920]

Hopefully I can bump this thread in the coming years with a big fat told you so!

[timvp]

Hopefully I can bump this thread in the coming years with a big fat told you so!Would you bump it with three consecutive posts?

Put your Bustnani predictions on paper. What do you think he'll eventually average? What shooting percentages?

Obviously he's going to improve because he was horrible last year but I'm interested to see how much better you think he'll become. Spell it out.

[MrChug]

it's funny how half of these guys sucked afterwards.

How dumb a post was this? ^^^

[DPG21920]

Would you bump it with three consecutive posts?

Put your Bustnani predictions on paper. What do you think he'll eventually average? What shooting percentages?

Obviously he's going to improve because he was horrible last year but I'm interested to see how much better you think he'll become. Spell it out.

Would you bump it in the third person?

You put down what you think he will average, why is it that you only require people to prove things? Put yours down.

I say within the next two years you will see him averaging 15pts on 46% shooting with 39% 3pt %, 85% FT and around 5.5 boards, 2 assist and a block a game.

[DPG21920]

I think his ceiling is around 19 pts, 48% shooting, 40% 3pts, 87% FT, 6.5 boards. To say he is obviously going to improve (on averaging double digit points none the less) because he was horrible is just a cop out. Many players (even #1 draft picks) have bad years and do not get better (Kwame Brown), in fact some get worse or just stay the same. To show improvement (especially when you already average double digits) is a good sign.

I believe that (by doing some research) the mean scoring average in the NBA was 8.3 points per game. Even though Bargnani was above that, that number is really statistically irrelevant because the vast majority of NBA players score under that. So a more relevant and telling number is the median scoring average in the NBA. This came out to 6.6 points a game. This means that exactly half of the players in the NBA scored less and half scored more. Bargnani was way ahead of the curve and did not even average 25 minutes a game. So at least statically he is ahead of most of the NBA in scoring, in only his second year (which was a poor one...)

[Red Hawk #21]

Bargnani may need a running offense to play his best, I think if he went to Golden State, Phoenix or Denver he could be really good. But for now I guess you have to label him as a bust.

[DPG21920]

Runner up when he was one of two rookies to play a major role on their team isn't that great of an accomplishment. The rookie play that season was statistically proven to be the worst in history. A lot of the players ending up blooming in their second year, but that first year Bustnani was force fed a major role and had name recognition. Those two things allowed him to garner one first place vote, IIRC.

He did only get one first place vote.


You just owned yourself. Look at those stats and see that Kwame Brown and Bustnani had by far the worst numbers. The step up from those two players to the third worst player is a huge step. Are you going to argue that Kwame Brown isn't a bust?

How is that owning myself. He does have deficiencies in some categories, but for being a scorer (which is what he is) he fared well with most all of those players. He is a skill player. Howard cannot hit a 3. Obviously Kwame is a bust, but he has been in the league for many years and only averaged double digits once.


Even if you factor in minutes, Bustnani still shows as a one-dimensional gunner who does nothing else but score. And that's exactly what he is.

Be prepared to add Tyrus Thomas and Randy Foye to that mix.

I pimp the T-Wolves more than anyone on this site, so I am well aware of Foye. I think Bargs will be up there.


And being a bust isn't about how many people are better than him. If he was a good player that happened to be in a draft with a ton of talent, he wouldn't be called a bust.

He's a bust because he just not a good player. He does nothing but score. He's one of the worst rebounding bigmen in the league. He doesn't block shots. He doesn't defend. He doesn't pass. He's not going to suddenly be able to do those things as time goes along. And on top of those negative attributes, he has a rep for being lazy and has a bad attitude.

He's talented enough to one day average a good amount of points but that won't hide the fact that he's nothing close to what he was projected to be coming out of Europe. Scouts were calling him a more athletic version of Dirk ... he ended up being a worse rebounding, worse passing version of Antoine Walker without the shimmy.

People who called him Dirk way overreacted. I never said he would be MVP of the league or average 20 points 9 rebounds. I said that just because he got picked #1 in the draft, averaged double digits in his first two seasons, does not make him a bust. If he got picked #5 would he still be a bust. He is not a bad player. He has A TON TO LEARN, but has shown flashes.


The Raptors themselves obviously already began admitting their mistake by going out and trading for Jermaine O'Neal. If Bustnani was the emerging stud you make him out to be, do you really think they would have traded for a center? Wouldn't they be making room for baby Larry Bird to excel?

But yeah if you think a first overall pick that does nothing but score while shooting at a low percentage isn't a bust ... I'm not sure what to tell you.

:rolleyes

I'm sorry I couldn't produce a self-owning chart.

Link to where I said he was an "emerging stud". I said he is: a) not a bust and b) I think he will improve and be good and c) that I would take him on the Spurs. That is all. He is a scorer, that is why they liked him. No one but you is trying to argue that. It is widely known. If he is a scorer, and he is doing that and he improves, than he is what most thought he was. No intelligent basketball person would think he was "bird" or "dirk", just a nice player.


Oh and who did Andre Iguodala end up signing with? I seem to remember someone named DPG telling me he was going to leave Philly because Philly wasn't going to offer more money than they did last year because a blog said so.

This coming from the guy who I quoted saying Udoka was the perfect replacement for Bowen, to saying: "things change".

Well my answer to AI, is: things change!

Its better than saying things like: Mahinmi will either be good in the NBA or he won't, there's a 50/50 chance. Really?

[ploto]

He only grabs one rebound every 6 1/2 minutes-- which is simply unbelievable! He made Rasho look like a rebounding stud! :lol

[Kamnik]

I think his ceiling is around 19 pts, 48% shooting, 40% 3pts, 87% FT, 6.5 boards.

So you think his ceiling is basically being Dirk Nowitzki... :lol

Nowitzki >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bargnani (now or ever)

Dirk is a fighter and a winner while Bargnani has worse in-head predispositions than Udrih.

[DPG21920]

People who called him Dirk way overreacted. I never said he would be MVP of the league or average 20 points 9 rebounds. I said that just because he got picked #1 in the draft, averaged double digits in his first two seasons, does not make him a bust. If he got picked #5 would he still be a bust. He is not a bad player. He has A TON TO LEARN, but has shown flashes.



So you think his ceiling is basically being Dirk Nowitzki... :lol

Nowitzki >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bargnani (now or ever)

Dirk is a fighter and a winner while Bargnani has worse in-head predispositions than Udrih.

First of all, please read my posts before you comment.
Secondly, smilies are for little girls.
Lastly, since when did a CEILING of 19 pts, 6 rebounds for a player (which is what I said about Bargs) make him compare to Dirk when his AVERAGE for his career is 22 pts and 8 rebounds?

That is just the worst conclusion you can draw. I never said he is or will be Dirk. I said he has a ceiling below Dirk's career average. He is not the leader Dirk is, which means that even if he averages the same stats, he will not be the same player. If stats were the only thing that mattered, Vince Carter would be the best player.

[DPG21920]

Bump...

Bargnani is doing very well right now in preseason. I could not get the link to the box score for one of the games but these are his numbers so far:

15 pts, 8 reb on 50% shooting against the Cavs
15 pts, 5 reb on 42% shooting against the Knicks
10 pts, 1 reb on 50% shooting against the 76ers
22 pts, 4 reb on 54% shooting against the Wolves

Not too bad for him to start off the preseason. I think he is going to have a good year. 14 pts, 4 reb, 46% shooting and 38% from 3.

[lefty]

Bump...

Bargnani is doing very well right now in preseason. I could not get the link to the box score for one of the games but these are his numbers so far:

15 pts, 8 reb on 50% shooting against the Cavs
15 pts, 5 reb on 42% shooting against the Knicks
10 pts, 1 reb on 50% shooting against the 76ers
22 pts, 4 reb on 54% shooting against the Wolves

Not too bad for him to start off the preseason. I think he is going to have a good year. 14 pts, 4 reb, 46% shooting and 38% from 3.

I think he realized his career was going nowhere, so he is waking the fuck up

[angelbelow]

hes still got time to turn it around and be a decent player.

[Kamnik]

Preaseason...

His defence is so horrible he will do more bad than good when on floor.

[JamStone]

If the Raps insist on having in the starting line-up or playing big minutes with both Bosh and JO, they'd be better served playing small forward only on offense and then putting him on the worst front court player on the opposing team. Bosh has the athleticism to play most small forwards, but it would take him away from the defensive glass. Still, that might be a better option than having Bargnani try to guard small forwards out on the perimeter.

Forget Dirk. At this point, I think the Raps would be happy if Bargnani compared favorably with Vladimir Radmanovic.

[DPG21920]

If the Raps insist on having in the starting line-up or playing big minutes with both Bosh and JO, they'd be better served playing small forward only on offense and then putting him on the worst front court player on the opposing team. Bosh has the athleticism to play most small forwards, but it would take him away from the defensive glass. Still, that might be a better option than having Bargnani try to guard small forwards out on the perimeter.

Forget Dirk. At this point, I think the Raps would be happy if Bargnani compared favorably with Vladimir Radmanovic.

I agree with the small forward assessment and I agree that is probably what they are thinking. I still think they have high hopes for him though, not Radmon, lol. I was thinking maybe more of Peja, not Dirk.

[DPG21920]

:lol After that embarrassing Bonner thread by Timvp, how dare he call me out.

At least my predictions come pretty damn close to what I said.

[DPG21920]

Would you bump it in the third person?

You put down what you think he will average, why is it that you only require people to prove things? Put yours down.

I say within the next two years you will see him averaging 15pts on 46% shooting with 39% 3pt %, 85% FT and around 5.5 boards, 2 assist and a block a game.


I think his ceiling is around 19 pts, 48% shooting, 40% 3pts, 87% FT, 6.5 boards. To say he is obviously going to improve (on averaging double digit points none the less) because he was horrible is just a cop out. Many players (even #1 draft picks) have bad years and do not get better (Kwame Brown), in fact some get worse or just stay the same. To show improvement (especially when you already average double digits) is a good sign.

I believe that (by doing some research) the mean scoring average in the NBA was 8.3 points per game. Even though Bargnani was above that, that number is really statistically irrelevant because the vast majority of NBA players score under that. So a more relevant and telling number is the median scoring average in the NBA. This came out to 6.6 points a game. This means that exactly half of the players in the NBA scored less and half scored more. Bargnani was way ahead of the curve and did not even average 25 minutes a game. So at least statically he is ahead of most of the NBA in scoring, in only his second year (which was a poor one...)

Bargnani Now: 21PPG, 45% FG, 35% 3PT FG, 82% FT, 5.2 REBS, 1.8 AST

[Kyle Orton]

Tbh I was wrong about Bargnani and he wouldn't be scoffed if not for where he was picked. The Raptors future wouldn't be terrible if they weren't in Canada and if they didn't have a GM who enjoys filling rosters with defensive liabilities.

[DPG21920]

Most everyone was wrong about him except for me. It's just funny watching Timvp slob Bonner and him argue with me about Bargs :lol

Considering how things turned out, my predictions from 2 years ago look pretty damn solid.

That was always my point, Kyle. He was a number one pick, but look at the situation. He is a top 5 player from his draft. In the NBA draft that is about as good as you can realistically hope for.

He will never be a superstar, but he is not a bust considering the draft class. He's not the game changer you would hope for, but they got a decent player.

[Giuseppe]

Tbh I was wrong

Jesus! Yesterday Deep broke his wrong cherry. Today DUNCAN breaks his.

Glory B!!!!!

[Kyle Orton]

I admitted I was wrong about Bargnani close to a year ago, and DEEP admitted he was wrong about Amare not being a max contract player awhile ago.

Your the one who's wrong hymen remains intact.

[DPG21920]

He's delusional :lol Plenty of times people eat crow. Except him.

[HarlemHeat37]

Bargs has never been as bad as people have made him out to be, but he's never going to be a player that can win a title, unless he's a 6th man IMO..his style of play is too difficult to build around as a #1 or #2 option..he would be nice in a similar role that Jamal Crawford plays for Atlanta..

Raptors could be a playoff team next year with some smart moves, but they have never been known for that..DeRozan is emerging and improving, Amir has made strides, they have some nice bench pieces..

The problem is that their interior is still weak on both ends, and they're still relying on 1-D perimeter players..

[DPG21920]

Agreed. I think he can still improve, but he is clearly not "the man". If you pair him with someone fierce and defensive minded, he could help.

Good bump tho.

[InTheCrust]

$50 million for a 7 footer afraid to grab a rebound. :lol

Colangelo has struck out time and time again with these Europeans. And he's got the worst coach for them too.

[Kyle Orton]

Why is it that whenever a PF or C who doesn't average 10+ rebounds a game gets an 8 figure extension people view it as a terrible contract?


There are SOOOOOO many players with a contract worse than Bargnani's. Do people not see the contracts handed out in the NBA these days? $10,000,000 a year for someone averaging 20+ PPG at roughly 45% shooting is not a bad contract at all by NBA standards.

[DPG21920]

Exactly :lol I made that exact argument in the "Bargnani gets an extension" thread. I even outlined the types of contracts for his production.

RJ's contract is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy worse.

[DPG21920]

Not a good day for Timvp though. Just bloaded on multiple accounts.

[Kyle Orton]

Rofl I remember arguing with you in this thread, then fuckin Varejao got a similar contract a day later, and I immediately realized how insignificant Bargnani's contract was.

Then again I'm bias, anytime Colangelo hands out a contract, I assume it's overpaid till proven otherwise. Even when he initially signed Nash, me (and plenty of other people) viewed it as a stupid contract.

[Muser]

Bargnani isn't bad, but 5 rebounds a game for a 7 footer is shocking