Spot Number 28 - Top 50 Spurs

[timvp]

SpursTalk's Top 50 Spurs
1. Tim Duncan
2. David Robinson
3. George Gervin
4. Gregg Popovich
5. Angelo Drossos
6. Manu Ginobili
7. Tony Parker
8. Sean Elliott
9. James Silas
10. Bruce Bowen
11. Larry Kenon
12. Avery Johnson
13. Alvin Robertson
14. Johnny Moore
15. RC Buford
16. Artis Gilmore
17. Peter Holt
18. Mike Mitchell
19. Bob Bass
20. Malik Rose
21. Robert Horry
22. Red McCombs
23. Doug Moe
24. Terry Cummings
25. Mario Elie
26. Willie Anderson
27. Billy Paultz

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To pass the time until the start of preseason, let's see how SpursTalk.com ranks the Top 50 Spurs. Those eligible for the list include all players, coaches and owners. I don't want to define "top" too narrowly, but I think the best way to do it would be to think of the list as a list of the 50 most influential people who have helped make the Spurs one of the most successful franchises in the history of sport.

For more information on what we are doing, check out this thread (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103061).

In this thread, we will vote for spot number 28. Please place your vote. If you will, also explain in this thread why you voted how you did.

Thanks.



P.S.

Poll options listed in alphabetical order. If you want to vote for someone not on the list, post in the thread and I'll add the person.

Voting will end 2AM CST Saturday morning.

Please vote only once.

[timvp]

My top three candidates are . . .

Mark Olberding
Olberding's 536 regular season games played with the Spurs ranks him 10th on the all-time franchise list. During those games, averaged 10.5 points, 5.6 rebounds and 25.8 minutes per game. He played seven complete seasons with the Spurs -- from 1975 to 1982.

Robert McDermott
Was the primary owner of the Spurs from 1993 to 1997 when he sold to Peter Holt. While he wasn't in charge for a long period of time, he made one hugely important move -- he hired Gregg Popovich. Seeing as Pop at the time was a lowly assistant coach on a losing Golden State Warriors team, the move was seen as a risk at the time. Not only did he hire Pop, he gave Pop full authority over the basketball operations. He only told Pop to do one thing and that was to bring back Sean Elliott. McDermott too could have sold for more money to outside investors but kept the team in town by selling to Holt. Some give McDermott credit for changing the culture of how the Spurs are run.

Stan Albeck
Coached the Spurs for three years -- from 1980 to 1983. Posted a 153-93 record during the regular season. His winning percentage as head coach is fourth best in franchise history. Made the Western Conference Finals in two out of his three years as coach. Both losses in the WCF were against the Lakers. The year before Albeck was coach, the Spurs were 41-41. The year after he left, the Spurs were 37-45.



It's tempting to go with players like Stephen Jackson, Brent Barry and even Dennis Rodman ... but I don't think the time has come yet.

[manufor3]

mcdermott

[timvp]

Yeah, I think this should be McDermott or Olberding. Here is more ammunition for McDermott:


They'd never really talked until the interview. Robert McDermott didn't really know basketball, either.

But the retired general knew the people his Air Force Academy produced, and he knew his instincts. He'd had to make these chain-of-command decisions his entire life, from the war to USAA.

This candidate made sense to him. He would promote a mere assistant coach with the Golden State Warriors, turning him into the vision of his franchise. He would also leave this novice alone with few instructions, and some wondered what McDermott was thinking both then and a few losses later.

But the hire has been in place now for more than a dozen years, making the Spurs one of the league's most stable teams. So when counting up everything this remarkable man did in his life, doesn't believing in Gregg Popovich rate somewhere in the mix?

McDermott's legacy runs laughably deeper than this, and Popovich knows better than anyone. He was a cadet when McDermott was the dean at the Air Force Academy, and, though the two never met then, Popovich saw firsthand how McDermott impacted people's lives.

Such as Popovich's. McDermott changed the academy's curriculum, and Annapolis and West Point later followed his lead. Both added a more liberal-arts slant to what had always been heavy on engineering.

This is just one reason Popovich remained in awe of his former dean and boss. "He lived every minute," Popovich said, "and he lived in service of his community."

McDermott's venue of service changed in the '90s, when he feared the Spurs were close to leaving town. McDermott put together a 22-piece ownership group to buy the team from Red McCombs, and Popovich repeats what others have said. "He kept the Spurs here," Popovich said.

McDermott perhaps did, though McCombs has said he would have never sold the Spurs to a group with intentions of relocation. Also, among those in McDermott's partnership was the Gaylord family of Oklahoma City, who have since bought the Seattle SuperSonics. Had things not worked out for the Spurs in San Antonio, Gaylord had an arena and a need in Nashville.

McDermott's efforts, at worst, bought time for San Antonio, and what followed secured the franchise as never before. With McDermott attempting to broker a deal with the Maloof brothers, who later bought the Sacramento Kings, Peter Holt stepped in.

Holt bought out Gaylord, then showed the patience that local ownership brings. That built a community consensus, resulting in the AT&T Center.

Still, McDermott's impact on the Spurs is undeniable, because he's the one who saw something in Popovich. McDermott was guessing then, but with some inside knowledge. Popovich's wife, Erin, had long known McDermott's daughter Betsy.

But when these men sat down for their first interview, in Nashville with other Spurs owners, it was the first time they had spent much time together. Then Popovich laid out his plan.

Popovich talked with nothing to lose. "I didn't think it would happen for me then," Popovich said. "I figured it would be a good experience just to interview. So I held nothing back."

The speech was about operational thoroughness, and how the Spurs should scout and treat players, and what the franchise needed to become. The Spurs weren't known before then for being, well, first class.

McDermott loved the approach, which is why he looked past Popovich's résumé. McDermott told Popovich he would leave him alone, but he gave him, in the words of the military, one direct, verbal order. Get Sean Elliott back in town.

Popovich did, but not everything went as smoothly. McDermott responded in those early years with the clip of a general.

Fine show. Press on. Make me proud.

Popovich would make himself the coach, and he would get Tim Duncan. He and his staff would find players from France to Argentina, and they would win titles, and they would become known as one of the best-run organizations in sports.

Credit McDermott, ever serving his community.

[Bruno]

I go with Stephen Jackson.
If Ellie is number 25, Jackson had to be damn near to him in the ranking.

[ChuckD]

It's tempting to go with players like Stephen Jackson, Brent Barry and even Dennis Rodman ... but I don't think the time has come yet.

Uh, if Elie's in already, Jack can go in any time. They were both on the Spurs roster for two seasons, had one very productive one, took over the starting two spot in time of need, and were instrumental in one championship with their fearless, in your face style.

[urunobili]

I go with Stephen Jackson.
If Ellie is number 25, Jackson had to be damn near to him in the ranking.

Jackson> Barry for the Spurs? Elie getting 25 was lame... yes he brought toughness but people still leaving Barry behind makes me sick... :bang

[Bruno]

Jackson> Barry for the Spurs?

Yes and it's not even close.
You can even make a case that Finley>Barry for Spurs.

[Kona]

Budenholzer.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I think Timvp put up a pretty good case for McDermott. I said in the last thread if it's a close call between a player and an owner I'm taking the player, hands down, but this is probably not a bad spot for McD.

[Spurminator]

I tend to agree with the sentiment that if Elie is in, Jackson should be right there with him, but I didn't think Elie should have been gone yet.

[samikeyp]

Without McDermott, S-Jax and Elie help Nashville to their first two titles.

Gotta go with the General.

[baseline bum]

Jackson> Barry for the Spurs? Elie getting 25 was lame... yes he brought toughness but people still leaving Barry behind makes me sick... :bang

What's with your hard-on for Barry? He was a bit of a bust signing, and never played anywhere close to his Seattle level when he was on the Spurs.

Jackson on the other hand was one of the main reasons the Spurs weren't knocked out by Phoenix in the first round in 03. He's the one responsible for the comeback from 13 down in the fourth to beat Dallas and clinch the conference in game 6 of the WCF. Jackson is the one who ended the Nets season with three three pointers in the 19-0 run to comeback from 10 down in game 6 of the Finals.

Elie was the tough leader and defensive guard the Spurs had needed for years. He was a great hustle player, he played physical defense, and his challenge to Duncan and Robinson was the turning point in the history of this franchise. Ever since that date the Spurs have been title contenders. Not to mention he was a clutch shooter. Elie is one of the main reasons the team was able to ditch the soft label.

[rAm]

What's with your hard-on for Barry? He was a bit of a bust signing, and never played anywhere close to his Seattle level when he was on the Spurs.

Jackson on the other hand was one of the main reasons the Spurs weren't knocked out by Phoenix in the first round in 03. He's the one responsible for the comeback from 13 down in the fourth to beat Dallas and clinch the conference in game 6 of the WCF. Jackson is the one who ended the Nets season with three three pointers in the 19-0 run to comeback from 10 down in game 6 of the Finals.

Elie was the tough leader and defensive guard the Spurs had needed for years. He was a great hustle player, he played physical defense, and his challenge to Duncan and Robinson was the turning point in the history of this franchise. Ever since that date the Spurs have been title contenders. Not to mention he was a clutch shooter. Elie is one of the main reasons the team was able to ditch the soft label.

Well said, again.

[timvp]

I go with Stephen Jackson.
If Ellie is number 25, Jackson had to be damn near to him in the ranking.I think Elie is a clear step above Jack. Strictly talking about their on court play, I'd say they were about even. Elie was steady and brought consistent play every night. Jack was wildly inconsistent and although his numbers were a bit better, his streaky play could sometimes be hard to watch when he went into a dry spell.

Elie's clear advantage comes in terms of leadership and bringing a veteran, championship attitude to a team that had never won anything. He sparked that '99 team with is mouth and then he helped keep the focus solely on winning a championship. Jack was a hard ass who brought toughness but he wasn't anywhere near as influential as Elie.

That said Jack should definitely be coming up. The one season he played with the Spurs he came out of nowhere to give the Spurs exactly what they needed. Without his emergence, the Spurs wouldn't have won the championship. Steve Smith was done and Manu was both injured and still adapting to the American game.



Yes and it's not even close.
You can even make a case that Finley>Barry for Spurs.

I was just thinking about that :lol

Take out the emotion and it can very easily be argued that Finley should be ahead of Barry. Finley was the starter on a championship team and has been the fourth leading scorer for three straight years -- both in the regular season and the playoffs. Barry's resume is much more subjective and is helped by him being a fan favorite, a nice guy, a funny quote and a talented commercial actor.

That said, I'll be voting for Barry before I vote for Finley. Why? I'm not exactly sure . . .

Those who say that the voting is prejudice against the old players, I think that is partly true but not entirely true. Emotions get mixed in with the newer players so players like Michael Finley, Vinny Del Negro and Dennis Rodman likely won't go as high as they should. If this poll was done again in 10 years, people would wonder why those players went so low even though their stats and accomplishments indicate they should have gone higher. Just like if this poll was down 20 years sooner, Spurs fans would have scoffed at putting Larry Kenon so high because he was seen as a choking whiner.

[baseline bum]

There's no way Rodman deserves any spot on this list with the shit he pulled in the 95 WCF. Fuck him.

[Spurs Brazil]

I voted for Jax.

He was huge in 03 Playoffs. He came with big plays in game 6 against Suns, Mavs and Nets. If you see the 4th quarters on 03 Championship DVD is the Jax show.

And I also remember a game against the Jazz in 02. Everybody was injured and Jax came off the bench and made some 3s and started saying some words to Malone :lol

I remember that game well because in 02 we here in Brazil got the League Pass and got a bunch of Spurs game including that one.

[timvp]

There's no way Rodman deserves any spot on this list with the shit he pulled in the 95 WCF. Fuck him.Exactly my point.

Ten years from now Spurs fans will look at Rodman's stats and think this list is crazy because Rodman wasn't in the top 25 :lol

[FromWayDowntown]

I tend to agree with the sentiment that if Elie is in, Jackson should be right there with him, but I didn't think Elie should have been gone yet.

I think the same is true with Moe and Albeck. Moe's teams won 57% of their games and 177 games over about 4 1/2 years; Albeck's teams won 62% of their games and 153 games over a 3 year stretch. Moe's teams won 9 playoff games and 1 playoff series; Albeck's teams won 13 playoff games and 2 playoff series. Moe's team played in an Eastern Conference Final, losing in 7; Albeck's teams played in consecutive Western Conference Finals, losing in 4 and 6. The difference between the two coaches is mostly style of play and the fact that Albeck basically abandoned the Spurs in 1983. For that reason, I can see putting Albeck behind Moe, but not substantially so, in my opinion.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I think the same is true with Moe and Albeck. Moe's teams won 57% of their games and 177 games over about 4 1/2 years; Albeck's teams won 62% of their games and 153 games over a 3 year stretch. Moe's teams won 9 playoff games and 1 playoff series; Albeck's teams won 13 playoff games and 2 playoff series. Moe's team played in an Eastern Conference Final, losing in 7; Albeck's teams played in consecutive Western Conference Finals, losing in 4 and 6. The difference between the two coaches is mostly style of play and the fact that Albeck basically abandoned the Spurs in 1983. For that reason, I can see putting Albeck behind Moe, but not substantially so, in my opinion.

I'd also argue that Albeck deserves the nod for the impressive hair helmet.









Bob Hill managed to let Dennis Rodman destroy his 62 win Spurs season, otherwise he might rate over both those guys.

[Pero]

TimVP, why don't you have Beno on the list? :D

[The Truth #6]

Damn, and still no Ed Nealy? From his wiki page, "The San Antonio Spurs use old videotapes of Nealy to demonstrate how to foul hard to new players." However, that videotape must have gotten lost lately.

For this pick, I'll go with McDermott. I'd prefer to focus on players but the big General was influential. USAA pretty much went to crap after he left and that Buck article makes good points that attest to his great leadership and trust in people.

[Obstructed_View]

I go with Stephen Jackson.
If Ellie is number 25, Jackson had to be damn near to him in the ranking.

Elie was the keel and the rudder for the '99 team, and was the guy that killed the soft label for the Spurs. Jack was a good player, but he was wildly unpredictable, and keeping his emotions under control was a struggle for the team. His questionable judgment ultimately landed him a lower paying job out of town.

[Obstructed_View]

There's no way Rodman deserves any spot on this list with the shit he pulled in the 95 WCF. Fuck him.

I agree. That performance damaged Robinson's reputation in the same way that Elie benefitted it.