Should the next president know how to send an email?

[RandomGuy]

Take yer pick.

[KenMcCoy]

He should know how to fly a fighter jet though...

[01.20.09]

For sure and know better than to copy your spouse.

[clambake]

He should know how to fly a fighter jet though...and not into the ground.

[balli]

Of course not? Why would we want a president who's competent in carrying out basic tasks? Fucking educated elitists, what with their e-mail and all.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

not really, but knowing how to spell should be

[Anti.Hero]

No. Just pick up some community organizer off the streets and let him do the bitch work.

[RandomGuy]

not really, but knowing how to spell should be

"Shoule the next president know how to send an email? "

:lol

I guess. Don't confuse tpyos with an inability to spell "should", or for that matter, the ability to capitalize the first word in a sentence and end it with a period. ;)

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

This is what it's come to for Camp Obama? Can't talk economy, international affairs, social security, etc. because he doesn't have a plan, so they have to resort to stupid attacks about whether or not McCain checks his email?

Change? Obama's just another political whore from the left.

He's really reaching with this one.

[fyatuk]

In case you're curious as to how STUPID this is.

Bill Clinton sent 2 emails while president.

George Bush many many more.

Now, does this topic REALLY need to be discussed, considering a President's staff has more than enough people to print out any email he actually needs to read, and he'd be dictating everything outgoing anyway. As long as he recycles the shredding for the printouts, I don't see a problem.

[balli]

This is what it's come to for Camp Obama? Can't talk economy, international affairs, social security, etc. because he doesn't have a plan, so they have to resort to stupid attacks about whether or not McCain checks his email?

Change? Obama's just another political whore from the left.

He's really reaching with this one.

Random Guy is secretly Barack Obama?

Yeah and McCain sure has been issue focused lately- god knows lipstick and lies about Obama trying to protect kids from sex predators are just the issues that matter to America most right now. :rolleyes

[balli]

George Bush many many more.

Before secretly and illegally destroying them so as to cover up the slew of conspiratorial and illegal information they contained.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/13/white.house.email/index.html



WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Millions of White House e-mails may be missing, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino acknowledged Friday.

"I wouldn't rule out that there were a potential 5 million e-mails lost," Perino told reporters.

The administration was already facing sharp questions about whether top presidential advisers including Karl Rove improperly used Republican National Committee e-mail that the White House said later disappeared.

The latest comments were a response to a new report from a liberal watchdog group, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), alleging that over a two-year period official White House e-mail traffic for hundreds of days has vanished -- in possible violation of the federal Presidential Records Act. (Watch CREW's comments on the missing messages Video)

"This story is really now a two-part issue," CREW's Melanie Sloan told CNN. "First there's the use of the RNC e-mail server that's inappropriate by White House officials and secondly we've also learned that there were between March of 2003 and October of 2005 apparently over 5 million e-mail that were not preserved and these are e-mail on the regular White House server."


Story Highlights
• NEW: White House spokeswoman says 5 million official e-mails may be missing
• White House admits it should have kept e-mails on private GOP system
• Chairman of Senate Judiciary Committee doubts e-mails are deleted
• Committee investigating whether U.S. attorneys' firings were politically motivated
Adjust font size:
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WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Millions of White House e-mails may be missing, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino acknowledged Friday.

"I wouldn't rule out that there were a potential 5 million e-mails lost," Perino told reporters.

The administration was already facing sharp questions about whether top presidential advisers including Karl Rove improperly used Republican National Committee e-mail that the White House said later disappeared.

The latest comments were a response to a new report from a liberal watchdog group, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), alleging that over a two-year period official White House e-mail traffic for hundreds of days has vanished -- in possible violation of the federal Presidential Records Act. (Watch CREW's comments on the missing messages Video)

"This story is really now a two-part issue," CREW's Melanie Sloan told CNN. "First there's the use of the RNC e-mail server that's inappropriate by White House officials and secondly we've also learned that there were between March of 2003 and October of 2005 apparently over 5 million e-mail that were not preserved and these are e-mail on the regular White House server."

Perino stressed there's no indication the e-mails were intentionally lost, but she was careful not to dispute the outside group's allegations. "I'm not taking issue with their conclusions at this point," Perino said. "We're checking into them. There are 1,700 people in the Executive Office of the President."
White House: 'We screwed up'

Perino's disclosure about the White House e-mail comes a day after she admitted that the White House "screwed up" by not requiring e-mails from Republican Party and campaign accounts to be saved and was also trying to recover those e-mails.

Perino said 22 aides in the political arm of the president's office use party or campaign e-mail accounts, which were issued to separate official business from political work. Some of those accounts were used to discuss the December firings of eight federal prosecutors, a shake-up that has triggered a spreading controversy on Capitol Hill.

Congressional investigators have questioned whether White House aides used e-mail accounts from the Republican Party and President Bush's re-election campaign for official government business to avoid scrutiny of those dealings.

Sen. Patrick Leahy, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, accused the White House of trying to hide messages on the Republican Party system related to the firing of the U.S. attorneys, which has stirred up a hornet's nest on Capitol Hill.

"You can't erase e-mails, not today," said Leahy, D-Vermont. "They've gone through too many servers. They can't say they've been lost. That's like saying, 'The dog ate my homework.' " (Watch Leahy compare e-mails to Nixon tapes Video)

Leahy said the e-mails would have remained on party or campaign computer servers, and he compared the situation to the famous 18½-minute gap in one of the Watergate tapes.

"They're there," he said. "They know they're there, and we'll subpoena them, if necessary, and we'll have them."

Perino told reporters that the e-mails from those accounts should have been saved, but said policy has not kept pace with technology. She said computer experts were trying to retrieve any records that have been deleted.

"We screwed up, and we're trying to fix it," she told reporters.
E-mails sought by special prosecutor also missing

Patrick Fitzgerald, the special prosecutor in the CIA leak case, disclosed last year that some White House e-mails in 2003 were not saved as standard procedure dictated.

In a January 23, 2006, letter to the defense team of former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Fitzgerald wrote: "We advise you that we have learned that not all e-mail of the Office of Vice President and the Executive Office of President for certain time periods in 2003 was preserved through the normal archiving process on the White House computer system."

Robert Luskin, personal attorney for Rove, told CNN Friday that he "has no reason to doubt" Fitzgerald's assertion that some White House e-mail was missing.

"You're quite right," Luskin said in a telephone interview. "There was a gap there."

Democrats charge this raises questions about whether the public has gotten the full story on everything from the CIA leak case to the fired U.S. attorneys controversy.

"The biggest problem here is really that here is a White House that is deliberately violating an existing statute that requires them to preserve all records," said Sloan. "And we have significant evidence now both from the RNC e-mail and the White House e-mail that are missing that the White House was using every means possible to avoid complying with the law."

[fyatuk]

And then secretly destroyed them so as to cover up the slew of conspiratorial and illegal information they contained.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/13/white.house.email/index.html

Wow, if Bush himself deleted those emails, he's really computer savvy...:p:

Not that that had anything to do with my point.

[balli]

Fuck your point. What was it anyway- that Bill Clinton didn't send many e-mails during his term when the internet and e-mail were in their very infancy?

[KenMcCoy]

Before secretly and illegally destroying them so as to cover up the slew of conspiratorial and illegal information they contained.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/13/white.house.email/index.html

I think you made Fyatuk's point...email's and presidential worthiness don't necessarily have a direct relationship.

[RandomGuy]

This is what it's come to for Camp Obama? Can't talk economy, international affairs, social security, etc. because he doesn't have a plan, so they have to resort to stupid attacks about whether or not McCain checks his email?

Change? Obama's just another political whore from the left.

He's really reaching with this one.

:lmao

This may seriously be the most hypocritical thing I have seen you post.

Honesty check:

This little jab thread was too irresistable not to post.

I make no real claim that is matters more than a fart in the wind. Personally on a scale of 1 to 100, with 100 being the most important, I give its importance around a 5 or so.

But since you brought it up as an example of Democrats avoiding issues at the expense of silly attacks...

Let's thumb through your thread titles, to see if we can find some political threads that address issues over attacks.

"Obama's panicking"
--nope

"Ouch (Obama tries to attack Palin, she turns it around on him) "
--no issues discussed there...

"Biden should withdraw "
--still no real issues of national import, gotta keep looking

"Stay Classy Dems :thumbsup"
--hmm, no policy issued discussed here either

"Palin: One more visit to injured troops over seas than Obama"
--ooh there's a good one, debunked hackery, but still no policy issues

"Democrats: Party of Free Speech"
--no issues here either, move along..

"Howard Dean plays the race card"
--issues, issues, whos got the issues... not this thread

"So, uh, about that windfall profits tax idea..."
--DING DING DING DING. We have a winner.

One thread out of the first 25 was actually about a policy issue and presented some source material to back up an assertion that wasn't a pure political attack.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/search.php?searchid=913494


Not that being a shameless hack means everything you say is wrong. That would be illogical.

BUT

When you start trying to call anyone out for attacks over issues, it is logical to conclude, based on your own words, that you are a douchebag.

[balli]

pwnd.

[Anti.Hero]

Politics is 99% hypocrisy.

[Mr. Peabody]

:lmao

Goddamn man. That was harsh.

[fyatuk]

Fuck your point. What was it anyway- that Bill Clinton didn't send many e-mails during his term when the internet and e-mail were in their very infancy?

Yeah, uhh... You're talking about the dot com boom era. I got my first email address halfway through Clinton's first term, and by the time he left, it was extremely common. Now, granted myspace may not have been around, but most of the people I know had webpages, emails, etc up way before Clinton left office. That infancy crap is just BS.

I wasn't digging Clinton. I was commenting on the fact that Bill Clinton, one of the most loved and respected Democratic presidents, and widely considered one of the best Presidents of the modern era, didn't use email, while Bush, widely considered the anti-christ or some-such, was very proficient with computers and technology.

The point. since you seemed to have missed it, is that Clinton is considered to have done an excellent job without email, while Bush is considered to have done a poor job with extensive email use. And Obama wants us to believe there is a correlation between being able to lead this country and email use. He fails quite miserably on that.

[balli]

And Obama wants us to believe there is a correlation between being able to lead this country and email use. He fails quite miserably on that.
Again, RandomGuy is secretly Barack Obama? Wow.

[fyatuk]

Again, RandomGuy is secretly Barack Obama? Wow.

You are aware this discussion exists because of a new Obama attack add making a big deal out of McCain not being very computer proficient, right?

If not, you shouldn't even be in this discussion. Instead, you should be reading any of the various news sites discussing it.

[johnsmith]

Fuck your point. What was it anyway- that Bill Clinton didn't send many e-mails during his term when the internet and e-mail were in their very infancy?

You fucking twat, Clinton's VP invented emails remember? Of course the white house was using it at the time.

[Mr. Peabody]

And Obama wants us to believe there is a correlation between being able to lead this country and email use. He fails quite miserably on that.

I don't think that's the message. I think it's to reinforce the message that McCain is stuck in another era. There was some of that framing going around while the Georgia-Russia crisis was in the news. Some commentators (on the left) were arguing that McCain was still fighting the Cold War. This ad seems to try and build on that theme.

[fyatuk]

I don't think that's the message. I think it's to reinforce the message that McCain is stuck in another era. There was some of that framing going around while the Georgia-Russia crisis was in the news. Some commentators (on the left) were arguing that McCain was still fighting the Cold War. This ad seems to try and build on that theme.

In all fairness, you're right. I was annoyed at the poll and then at 'juana so I exaggerated that significantly.

I still think it's a faulty correlation, and a faulty ad.

Especially with the comparison to Bush at the end of the list of things McCain is supposed to be out of touch about, using computer proficiency just doesn't work, on a base level. Also, McCain has stated that while he personally doesn't use a computer, he has people that do those things for him. That shows a knowledge of the importance of computers in our society which contradicts the point.

Also, considering that older people and poor people, typical democrat bases, are the most likely to be computer illiterate, associating computer illiteracy with being out of touch with society is probably not the best way to make the point. I know my grandma would be highly offended to be told she could be out of touch with society because she can barely use a computer (she can do word processing and look at pictures in the my pictures folder and that's about it).

I've been computer literate since I was 7. I've been programming computers since I was 8. I've been on the internet so long I miss the days of lynx and pine. I've built my own computers, and a decade or go I could read the circuit board of one. And I'm still regularly called out of touch with society.

There's just no real correlation.

[RandomGuy]

:lmao

Goddamn man. That was harsh.

I believe the proper expression is "hoisted by his own petard".

[RandomGuy]

I know my grandma would be highly offended to be told she could be out of touch with society because she can barely use a computer (she can do word processing and look at pictures in the my pictures folder and that's about it).

Is your grandmother running for president?

[RandomGuy]

Seriously, as I said before this means very little in terms of magnitude.

It does indicate the possibility of a mind unable to learn or assimilate new information, and therefore some possible indicator of mental agility/stamina.

That is stretching it, but it is a reasonable conclusion to make of a man of McCain's age.

Taken by itself it is meaningless. But if it were to be shown as part of a pattern of things that demonstrate mental inflexibility, and "senior moments"...

That would be a bit more important to consideration of this job candidate for such a stressful and taxing position.

[fyatuk]

Is your grandmother running for president?

Nope. She is a retired lady who works democrat polling places for elections.

Apparently, you missed the topic of the paragraph, since your question has absolutely no relevance to what I wrote involving her.

She was an example of someone who would be angered at computer illiteracy being associated with being in touch with society, and as a member of one of the largest voting blocs that typically favors the democrats. That was an explanation of why that ad is a bit faulty in terms of accomplishing its purpose, not on how the claim applies to a presidential candidate.

That would be the previous paragraph. You are aware each paragraph is supposed to have its own topic, and while they should be related, they are separate, right?

[Spurminator]

I'm not convinced one of my bosses knows how to email since it seems like his admin sends them all but otherwise he's very good at his job.

[RandomGuy]

Nope. She is a retired lady who works democrat polling places for elections.

Apparently, you missed the topic of the paragraph, since your question has absolutely no relevance to what I wrote involving her.

She was an example of someone who would be angered at computer illiteracy being associated with being in touch with society, and as a member of one of the largest voting blocs that typically favors the democrats. That was an explanation of why that ad is a bit faulty in terms of accomplishing its purpose, not on how the claim applies to a presidential candidate.

That would be the previous paragraph. You are aware each paragraph is supposed to have its own topic, and while they should be related, they are separate, right?

Indeed. Just a question that immediately popped into my mind. Take it for what it is worth.

I am sure she is a wonderful person, and fully acknowledge that computer literacy is not a requirement for being such.

[JoeChalupa]

This is what it's come to for Camp Obama? Can't talk economy, international affairs, social security, etc. because he doesn't have a plan, so they have to resort to stupid attacks about whether or not McCain checks his email?

Change? Obama's just another political whore from the left.

He's really reaching with this one.

You mean like the Palin/McCain campaign wanting to talk about lipstick on a pig instead of the real issues? :lmao

[RandomGuy]

I'm not convinced one of my bosses knows how to email since it seems like his admin sends them all but otherwise he's very good at his job.

I know a lot of bosses have their admins screen their email to avoid information overload.

If you have to be responsible for 40-70 people, and only half of them email you on a given day, that is a LOT of stuff to deal with.

[RandomGuy]

You are aware this discussion exists because of a new Obama attack add making a big deal out of McCain not being very computer proficient, right?

If not, you shouldn't even be in this discussion. Instead, you should be reading any of the various news sites discussing it.

The email thing was part of the add.

Heh, the funky glasses that John wore in that hearing though... ouch.

Surprised there wasn't a big ol' butterfly collar on his suit. :lmao

(not that RG didn't have some stoooopid haircuts in the 80's with parachute pants and the whole cheesy nine yards. Ouch.)

[DarkReign]

You fucking twat, Clinton's VP invented emails remember? Of course the white house was using it at the time.

You know, I think johnsmith gets it. Seriously.

I am usually serious in here, but lately reading all the partisan bullshit around here has enlightened me to the overall humor this forum provides.

Because honestly, everyone here (except boutons, Dan and Yoni) knows we arent changing any hearts or minds with our political discourse, therefore this is more a battle of wits than facts.

Which in turn is sarcastic by nature.

John doesnt even feign interest in the topic at times, he just posts the most obvious criticism one can think of.

I usually tend to laugh while reading, when taken in the proper context.

[clambake]

You know, I think johnsmith gets it. Seriously.

I am usually serious in here, but lately reading all the partisan bullshit around here has enlightened me to the overall humor this forum provides.

Because honestly, everyone here (except boutons, Dan and Yoni) knows we arent changing any hearts or minds with our political discourse, therefore this is more a battle of wits than facts.

Which in turn is sarcastic by nature.

John doesnt even feign interest in the topic at times, he just posts the most obvious criticism one can think of.

I usually tend to laugh while reading, when taken in the proper context.

shut up bitch.

[DarkReign]

shut up bitch.

lol...nice try though.

[fyatuk]

I usually tend to laugh while reading, when taken in the proper context.

Politics is inherently funny. Where else can people bash each other and bitch about the other persons positions, when they are exactly the same as theirs, and be considered sane? How many other high power positions are more about likeability than ability or what group you belong to instead of what you stand for?

It's all rather stupid. But its fun. And cathartic to yell at people for no real reason.

[Wild Cobra]

Can we do away with these stupid threads? They are wasting time and space. Still, I'll respond to one thing since I did work on government communications as an electronics technician in the 80's and 90's.


Fuck your point. What was it anyway- that Bill Clinton didn't send many e-mails during his term when the internet and e-mail were in their very infancy?
The internet structure was actually doing well in the government even when Reagan was president. By the numbers I saw about Clinton here, It wouldn't surprise me if president Reagan did more E-mails than president Clinton. Just because internet protacols were not being used in the public sector until the late 80's/early 90's. That does not mean it didn't exist. My unit used to use e-mail all the time in the late 80's. If we had it, you can believe the office of the president had it!

[PixelPusher]

I was about to select "It doesn't matter", but then I recalled all the conservative lectures about "executive experience", and I have great difficulty imagining any executive in this country, occupying any level of government or business, that doesn't know how to use email in the 21st century.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

When you start trying to call anyone out for attacks over issues, it is logical to conclude, based on your own words, that you are a douchebag.

I give this post, and especially this line, a 10.

Well done.

[Biernutz]

If you ever worked in business a E-mail is a forever record of what you said. How many people are now in trouble because of E-mails? Do you think John just says he doesn't e-mail for a reason. Ask the ENRON executives about how E-Mails will come back to haunt you.

[PixelPusher]

If you ever worked in business a E-mail is a forever record of what you said. How many people are now in trouble because of E-mails? Do you think John just says he doesn't e-mail for a reason. Ask the ENRON executives about how E-Mails will come back to haunt you.

McCain doesn't use email so he can hide his tracks from the law?

That's a pretty bizarre defense. I don't think you're doing your guy any favors with that one.

[Biernutz]

McCain doesn't use email so he can hide his tracks from the law?

That's a pretty bizarre defense. I don't think you're doing your guy any favors with that one.



The archives of the Bill Clinton presidential library will contain 39,999,998 e-mails by the former president’s staff and two by the man himself. “The only two he sent,” Skip Rutherford, president of the Clinton Presidential Foundation, which is raising money for the library, said on Monday.


http://gadgetopia.com/post/1988

[PixelPusher]

The archives of the Bill Clinton presidential library will contain 39,999,998 e-mails by the former president’s staff and two by the man himself. “The only two he sent,” Skip Rutherford, president of the Clinton Presidential Foundation, which is raising money for the library, said on Monday.


http://gadgetopia.com/post/1988
Ah, the "Bill Clinton did it" defense. A bit tired, and it suffers from your side's ill regard for Clinton's character and methods, but it's much better than your "Enron executives" attempt earlier.

[Biernutz]

Ah, the "Bill Clinton did it" defense. A bit tired, and it suffers from your side's ill regard for Clinton's character and methods, but it's much better than your "Enron executives" attempt earlier.

The way hackers can get into anything today --is anything safe --including E-Mails?

[balli]

If Bill Clinton sent two e-mails, that would imply he knew how to use e-mail? Right? This thread isn't titled, "should the next president use e-mail," it's, "should the next president know how to use e-mail" Because that's really what we're talking about here; the knowing. I don't really care whether the next president uses e-mail or not, but I would like to think that by 2008 they'd be competent enough to use e-mail, if so inclined. Which McCain isn't. (Not that I don't think there are about a million more pertinent issues when it comes to McCain's multiple flaws)

[Biernutz]

The last Spurstalk poll results has 54% doesn't matter. I agree. You just don't send sensitive data in E-Mails anymore and everyone knows that if it's posted on the internet it must be true.

[Extra Stout]

It is true that John McCain does not send his own e-mails. However, it is not because he doesn't know how. It is because composing e-mails requires typing, which is among the things that are very painful and/or impossible for him to do following his torture at the hands of the Viet Cong. He also cannot tie his shoes or lift his right arm above his shoulder.

[2centsworth]

It is true that John McCain does not send his own e-mails. However, it is not because he doesn't know how. It is because composing e-mails requires typing, which is among the things that are very painful and/or impossible for him to do following his torture at the hands of the Viet Cong. He also cannot tie his shoes or lift his right arm above his shoulder.

that will make a nice commercial.

[florige]

This is what it's come to for Camp Obama? Can't talk economy, international affairs, social security, etc. because he doesn't have a plan, so they have to resort to stupid attacks about whether or not McCain checks his email?

Change? Obama's just another political whore from the left.

He's really reaching with this one.



I will agree that was a pretty stupid attack ad to say the least. I saw that and thought wtf.....

[PixelPusher]

It is true that John McCain does not send his own e-mails. However, it is not because he doesn't know how. It is because composing e-mails requires typing, which is among the things that are very painful and/or impossible for him to do following his torture at the hands of the Viet Cong. He also cannot tie his shoes or lift his right arm above his shoulder.

C'mon, ES...you're way smarter than Jonah Goldberg.

[Wild Cobra]

If Bill Clinton sent two e-mails, that would imply he knew how to use e-mail? Right? This thread isn't titled, "should the next president use e-mail," it's, "should the next president know how to use e-mail" Because that's really what we're talking about here; the knowing. I don't really care whether the next president uses e-mail or not, but I would like to think that by 2008 they'd be competent enough to use e-mail, if so inclined. Which McCain isn't. (Not that I don't think there are about a million more pertinent issues when it comes to McCain's multiple flaws)

But the thread also doesn't ask if he is competent to. It's an absolutely stupid premise. May as well ask if McCain knows the combination to the safe in the oval office.

Both are simple things that can be learned!

[balli]

Both are simple things that can be learned!

Correct, but if it's so simple, it speaks to McCain's being out of touch, that he hasn't yet learned to do something so simple and routine, by this foul year, 2008. And if I don't agree that it's an "absolutely stupid premise" I would at least admit to it as a trivial one and I wish Obama had not used this to buffer his line of attack (however briefly) in his ad. I was just mainly arguing about this and Bill Clinton for the sake of argumentation, because frankly, as an outraged leftist, I got much bigger fish to fry than McCain's computer literacy.

[Wild Cobra]

Correct, but if it's so simple, it speaks to McCain's being out of touch, that he hasn't yet learned to do something so simple and routine, by this foul year, 2008. And if I don't agree that it's an "absolutely stupid premise" I would at least admit to it as a trivial one and I wish Obama had not used this to buffer his line of attack (however briefly) in his ad. I was just mainly arguing about this and Bill Clinton for the sake of argumentation, because frankly, as an outraged leftist, I got much bigger fish to fry than McCain's computer literacy.
Well, at least point out a quote where McCain said he didn't know how. My understanding is he only said he didn't use it. That is not the same thing. My mother no longer drives at night because her eyes are starting to fail her. That doesn't mean she doesn't know how. The point about McCains hands is completely valid.

When will you libtards learn how to correctly interpret what is said?

[Mr. Peabody]

Well, at least point out a quote where McCain said he didn't know how. My understanding is he only said he didn't use it. That is not the same thing. My mother no longer drives at night because her eyes are starting to fail her. That doesn't mean she doesn't know how. The point about McCains hands is completely valid.

When will you libtards learn how to correctly interpret what is said?

Look, my view is that this is a ridiculous thread. Who gives a shit if McCain can't use email. Like someone else stated on this thread, as President, he'll have people doing that stuff for him because he'll be too busy to do it himself, whether he has the ability or not.

[Wild Cobra]

Look, my view is that this is a ridiculous thread. Who gives a shit if McCain can't use email. Like someone else stated on this thread, as President, he'll have people doing that stuff for him because he'll be too busy to do it himself, whether he has the ability or not.
Are you also Ballijuana by chance?

[florige]

Look, my view is that this is a ridiculous thread. Who gives a shit if McCain can't use email. Like someone else stated on this thread, as President, he'll have people doing that stuff for him because he'll be too busy to do it himself, whether he has the ability or not.



Exactly. That was a dumb ad imo.....

[balli]

Well, at least point out a quote where McCain said he didn't know how. My understanding is he only said he didn't use it. That is not the same thing. My mother no longer drives at night because her eyes are starting to fail her. That doesn't mean she doesn't know how. The point about McCains hands is completely valid.

When will you libtards learn how to correctly interpret what is said?

Like I said, I'm just in this thread for the argument, but I'm taking what is said about McCain at face value and I don't really care enough about it to go on anything other than said hearsay. If that's what he said, fine; I don't really consider it an issue either way.

What really bothered me more was homie defending McCain by saying:

A. He shouldn't use e-mail because it's easy to get caught doing stupid and/or illegal shit when you leave an electronic record.
and
B. Bill Clinton too!

I could have left well enough alone if your fairly decent argument was the one that was originally posted, but every time I try to get out, these stupid lines of argumentation pull me back in.

[Mr. Peabody]

Exactly. That was a dumb ad imo.....

Again....:bang

I don't think that's the message. I think it's to reinforce the message that McCain is stuck in another era. There was some of that framing going around while the Georgia-Russia crisis was in the news. Some commentators (on the left) were arguing that McCain was still fighting the Cold War. This ad seems to try and build on that theme.

[toosmallshoes]

It doesn't matter is winning!!?!?!!?!? If McCain can't use email he is OUT OF TOUCH!

[Mr. Peabody]

It doesn't matter is winning!!?!?!!?!? If McCain can't use email he is OUT OF TOUCH!

Isn't this similar to the argument, "Obama doesn't like beer. Therefore, he's not like me and I shouldn't vote for him."?

Who cares? Since when is the ability to email necessary to govern effectively? How often do you think Obama gets to use email out on the campaign trail? He probably has an aide that organizes his Blackberry, screens his email and calls, only tells him about the most important emails, and then responds as instructed by Obama.

There are plenty of other issues to worry about.

[Yonivore]

I don't think that's the message. I think it's to reinforce the message that McCain is stuck in another era. There was some of that framing going around while the Georgia-Russia crisis was in the news. Some commentators (on the left) were arguing that McCain was still fighting the Cold War. This ad seems to try and build on that theme.
And, if that's the case, it would be wrong, Peabody.

As the ad points out, McCain "can't send an email?" That is true. But, as Jonah Goldberg (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OTliMTNiZjg5ZDEwZWNiZDYwZWFjN2JlNjNjNjkxZmM=) explains, it's not because he doesn't know how:


The reason he doesn't send email is that he can't use a keyboard because of the relentless beatings he received from the Viet Cong in service to our country. From the Boston Globe (March 4, 2000):


McCain gets emotional at the mention of military families needing food stamps or veterans lacking health care. The outrage comes from inside: McCain's severe war injuries prevent him from combing his hair, typing on a keyboard, or tying his shoes. Friends marvel at McCain's encyclopedic knowledge of sports. He's an avid fan - Ted Williams is his hero - but he can't raise his arm above his shoulder to throw a baseball.
Obama's attack has unleashed a torrent of outrage; Glenn Reynolds has a roundup here (http://www.pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/archives2/024245.php). This excerpt from a 2000 Forbes article about McCain's pioneering web-based campaign is noteworthy:


In certain ways, McCain was a natural Web candidate. Chairman of the Senate Telecommunications Subcommittee and regarded as the U.S. Senate's savviest technologist, McCain is an inveterate devotee of email. His nightly ritual is to read his email together with his wife, Cindy. The injuries he incurred as a Vietnam POW make it painful for McCain to type. Instead, he dictates responses that his wife types on a laptop. "She's a whiz on the keyboard, and I'm so laborious," McCain admits.
I guess now we'll find out whether Barack Obama is capable of shame.

Okay, it's not the campaign-killing disaster that some G.O.P. types hope it is, but Obama's lame "can't send an email" commercial, as I think about it, sums up lots of things that are wrong with the Obama campaign.

Consider: In a single not-very-compelling ad calling McCain a clueless geezer who can't even send email, the Obama campaign managed to draw attention to his war injuries (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OTliMTNiZjg5ZDEwZWNiZDYwZWFjN2JlNjNjNjkxZmM=) again, to show that it doesn't even know that the 2000 McCain campaign actually pioneered (http://www.slate.com/id/74812/) the insurgent Web tactics that Obama used in the 2008 primary, and to produce an ad that seems tailor-made to alienate voters (http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_09_07-2008_09_13.shtml#1221252551) more than a few years older than Obama, all without providing any actual reason to, you know, vote for Obama. That's a combination of cluelessness, sloppiness, and narcissism -- it's clear they can't conceive that McCain could have pioneered anything on the Web, and they're probably too young to actually remember the 2000 election -- that seems emblematic of where that campaign has been lately. Hubris coupled with poor execution is not a recipe for success.

:lmao at Obama

[Mr. Peabody]

And, if that's the case, it would be wrong, Peabody.


McCain has admitted that he can use a computer....


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/us/politics/13text-mccain.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

Q: What websites if any do you look at regularly?

Mr. McCain: Brooke and Mark show me Drudge, obviously, everybody watches, for better or for worse, Drudge. Sometimes I look at Politico. Sometimes RealPolitics, sometimes.

(Mrs. McCain and Ms. Buchanan both interject: “Meagan’s blog!”)

Mr. McCain: Excuse me, Meagan’s blog. And we also look at the blogs from Michael and from you that may not be in the newspaper, that are just part of your blog.

Q: But do you go on line for yourself?

Mr. McCain: They go on for me. I am learning to get online myself, and I will have that down fairly soon, getting on myself. I don’t expect to be a great communicator, I don’t expect to set up my own blog, but I am becoming computer literate to the point where I can get the information that I need – including going to my daughter’s blog first, before anything else.

Q: Do you use a blackberry or email?

Mr. McCain: No

Mark Salter: He uses a BlackBerry, just ours.

Mr. McCain: I use the Blackberry, but I don’t e-mail, I’ve never felt the particular need to e-mail. I read e-mails all the time, but the communications that I have with my friends and staff are oral and done with my cell phone. I have the luxury of being in contact with them literally all the time. We now have a phone on the plane that is usable on the plane, so I just never really felt a need to do it. But I do – could I just say, really – I understand the impact of blogs on American politics today and political campaigns. I understand that. And I understand that something appears on one blog, can ricochet all around and get into the evening news, the front page of The New York Times. So, I do pay attention to the blogs. And I am not in any way unappreciative of the impact that they have on entire campaigns and world opinion.

No mention of injuries.

But again, why are we spending time on this? The ad, like the lipstick ad, is a dumb ad that's not going to sway informed voters.

[Yonivore]

But again, why are we spending time on this?
Because of what it reveals about Obama.

[Mr. Peabody]

Because of what it reveals about Obama.

What does calling Obama a deviant who "wants to teach kindergartners about sex before they can read" reveal about McCain? I think it's a far more serious allegation than alleging someone can't use a computer.

[Yonivore]

What does calling Obama a deviant who "wants to teach kindergartners about sex before they can read" reveal about McCain?
Did McCain call him a "deviant," or are you projecting your own opinion of what it means for someone to want to teach sex education to kindergartners?

Again, wanting to teach sex education to 5 and 6 year-olds says more about Obama than it does McCain. No, not that he's a "deviant" but that he's an "idiot."


I think it's a far more serious allegation than alleging someone can't use a computer.
Please show me where McCain called Obama a deviant.

[RandomGuy]

But the thread also doesn't ask if he is competent to. It's an absolutely stupid premise. May as well ask if McCain knows the combination to the safe in the oval office.

Both are simple things that can be learned!

Indeed. I think ES's point that typing and other things that require extended use of one's arms with manual dexterity may be the most cogent point yet.

As I said though, this one thing means little by itself, but if part of a larger pattern of an inability/unwillingness to learn new things, that would make it quite relevant.

Even you would agree that mental dexterity and the ability to absorb and assimilate new information is critical to the job.

Of course the above statement makes the tenuous assumption that you aren't a total hack. I get the sneaking suspicion that if it was proven that McSame had neither, you would argue until you were blue in the face that it was irrelevant, and Hoopsfan would be right there with you.

[RandomGuy]

Did McCain call him a "deviant," or are you projecting your own opinion of what it means for someone to want to teach sex education to kindergartners?

Again, wanting to teach sex education to 5 and 6 year-olds says more about Obama than it does McCain. No, not that he's a "deviant" but that he's an "idiot."


Please show me where McCain called Obama a deviant.

the word "deviant" was obviously Mr. Peabody's as it was not quoted.

If memory serves, I think it would be a fair implication from the rest of McCain's statement what he thought of such things.

The unspoken message "Obama is a deviant" would certainly be picked up on or interpreted by, the fundies that view any such education as an anathema.

[RandomGuy]

Obama's attack has unleashed a torrent of hypocritical outrage;

Fixed.

just in case you missed this little jem... (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2766131&postcount=16)

[Yonivore]

Fixed.

just in case you missed this little jem... (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2766131&postcount=16)
Sorry, I rarely look to SpursTalk for a fair representation of the political worldview.

[Yonivore]

the word "deviant" was obviously Mr. Peabody's as it was not quoted.

If memory serves, I think it would be a fair implication from the rest of McCain's statement what he thought of such things.

The unspoken message "Obama is a deviant" would certainly be picked up on or interpreted by, the fundies that view any such education as an anathema.
So, in a sentence -- or, a yes or no (if you think you can muster it) -- was McCain trying to infer Obama was a deviant?

[RandomGuy]

Seriously.

The GOP has taken the politics of outrage to new heights.

The rather sickening "look how stupid the Democrats are, and see how much you should hate them for X and Y" speeches really erased any lingering doubts in my mind that Republicans care more about showing how bad Democrats are than about actually solving the nations problems.

[RandomGuy]

So, in a sentence -- or, a yes or no (if you think you can muster it) -- was McCain trying to infer Obama was a deviant?

That is something I can't answer definitively without seeing the whole thing in context.

I have my vague memory of his remarks to go on.

If you can help me find a link to the whole thing (and I will attempt to find it myself), I will give you an honest, straight answer.

[RandomGuy]

That is something I can't answer definitively without seeing the whole thing in context.

I have my vague memory of his remarks to go on.

If you can help me find a link to the whole thing (and I will attempt to find it myself), I will give you an honest, straight answer.

Found it. I guess we are talking about this ad:

uVLQhRiEXZs

My answer would be yes. That is the implied message.

I believe if you had asked the average self-identified christian fundamentalist the question:

"would only a deviant try to teach sex education to kindergardeners?"

the answer would probably be yes.

The inference and message to the faithful is not an unreasonable conclusion.

[RandomGuy]

"See the big bad Democrat teechin' sex to our kindiegardeners..."

Booga booga booga!!!

:rolleyes


Missing of course, is enough information to actually understand the policy in context or detail.

It goes for an emotional hot-button, just like most campaign ads, and, just like most campaign ads, distorts any reasonable interpretation of the truth.

Does the ad promote an issue, or suggest a policy solution to a perceived problem? No.

[Yonivore]

Wow, not only could you not stick to one sentence, or a yes or no; you spread it out over two posts.

"Teaching sex education before reading" was the point. How idiotic is it to teach five and six year-olds any facet of sexual behavior -- no matter how rudimentary -- before you even start academics?

That was the point of THAT portion of the ad.

And, yes the ad does pose a solution to a pressing policy issue. Obama is weak on education...don't put his ass in charge of the Department of Education.

[Mr. Peabody]

"Teaching sex education before reading" was the point. How idiotic is it to teach five and six year-olds any facet of sexual behavior -- no matter how rudimentary -- before you even start academics?


The goal of the legislation in question was not to teach sexual behavior to "five and six year-olds." Part of the legislation was aimed at teaching kids about inappropriate touching.

Out of bounds! McCain misstates Obama sex-ed record

By Margaret Talev | McClatchy Newspapers
WASHINGTON — Throw the flag against: The McCain-Palin campaign.

Call: Unsportsmanlike conduct.

What happened: A new 30-second TV ad attacks Barack Obama's record on education, saying that Obama backed legislation to teach "'comprehensive sex education' to kindergartners." The announcer then says, "Learning about sex before learning to read? Barack Obama. Wrong on education. Wrong for your family."

Why that's wrong: This is a deliberately misleading accusation. It came hours after the Obama campaign released a TV ad critical of McCain's votes on public education. As a state senator in Illinois, Obama did vote for but was not a sponsor of legislation dealing with sex ed for grades K-12.

But the legislation allowed local school boards to teach "age-appropriate" sex education, not comprehensive lessons to kindergartners, and it gave schools the ability to warn young children about inappropriate touching and sexual predators.

X0kiLoMY1hg


Why does McCain favor sexual predators....?:wow

[PixelPusher]

And, if that's the case, it would be wrong, Peabody.

As the ad points out, McCain "can't send an email?" That is true. But, as Jonah Goldberg (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OTliMTNiZjg5ZDEwZWNiZDYwZWFjN2JlNjNjNjkxZmM=) explains, it's not because he doesn't know how:


The reason he doesn't send email is that he can't use a keyboard because of the relentless beatings he received from the Viet Cong in service to our country. From the Boston Globe (March 4, 2000):

You're actually the 2nd person to cite Jonah Goldberg on this thread, but don't feel too bad, he didn't catch the mistake either.

[johnsmith]

You know, I think johnsmith gets it. Seriously.

I am usually serious in here, but lately reading all the partisan bullshit around here has enlightened me to the overall humor this forum provides.

Because honestly, everyone here (except boutons, Dan and Yoni) knows we arent changing any hearts or minds with our political discourse, therefore this is more a battle of wits than facts.

Which in turn is sarcastic by nature.

John doesnt even feign interest in the topic at times, he just posts the most obvious criticism one can think of.

I usually tend to laugh while reading, when taken in the proper context.

DR is the only one that understands me..............clambake too.................



But.............GO AVS!!!

[Yonivore]

The goal of the legislation in question was not to teach sexual behavior to "five and six year-olds." Part of the legislation was aimed at teaching kids about inappropriate touching.

Why does McCain favor sexual predators....?:wow
forgive me if I don't trust a media characterization of the legislation.

[Mr. Peabody]

forgive me if I don't trust a media characterization of the legislation.

So the McCain campaign characterization is more trustworthy...?:lol:toast

[mogrovejo]

In certain ways, McCain was a natural Web candidate. Chairman of the Senate Telecommunications Subcommittee and regarded as the U.S. Senate’s savviest technologist, McCain is an inveterate devotee of email. His nightly ritual is to read his email together with his wife, Cindy. The injuries he incurred as a Vietnam POW make it painful for McCain to type. Instead, he dictates responses that his wife types on a laptop.

FORBES MAGAZINE, (http://www.forbes.com/asap/2000/0529/053_print.html)


McCain can, in fact, send e-mails and is computer savy. He's slow using keyboards because of his tortured fingers.


How Obama dares to make an ad mocking the injuries an American soldier suffered while being tortured is beyond my comprehension.

[clambake]

FORBES MAGAZINE, (http://www.forbes.com/asap/2000/0529/053_print.html)


McCain can, in fact, send e-mails and is computer savy. He's slow using keyboards because of his tortured fingers.


How Obama dares to make an ad mocking the injuries an American soldier suffered while being tortured is beyond my comprehension.

you guys made torture cool, so it is beyond your comprehension.

[Bartleby]

McCain can, in fact, send e-mails and is computer savy.

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/1884558/6206369

[mogrovejo]

you guys made torture cool, so it is beyond your comprehension.

Who are "you" guys? Wasn't McCain one of the biggest critics of the BA on the torture issue? I'm not even a republican, nor a conservative and I've never voted for W.


Are you really defending this ad? Because only fanatics would do that, from my point of view. It's truly disgusting.

[RandomGuy]

The goal of the legislation in question was not to teach sexual behavior to "five and six year-olds." Part of the legislation was aimed at teaching kids about inappropriate touching.


X0kiLoMY1hg


Why does McCain favor sexual predators....?:wow

... and you notice the total lack of "well maybe that was kinda dishonest" from any Republican.

Obama supporters can admit their guy might put out a misleading ad from time to time.

McCain supporters... can't.

That is a fundamental difference between the two camps.

One can be honest, the other, can't.

That says volumes to me.

[SpursWoman]

I'd rather the BMOC were concentrating more on running the country than sifting through all of the "Hwo To Increase Your Mebmer to Pelase All The Laides" spam. :lol



(don't care one way or the other ... that's why he's got secretaries)

[ChumpDumper]

forgive me if I don't trust a media characterization of the legislation.So you went out and read the legislation, right?

Please post it or post a link to it.

[exstatic]

FORBES MAGAZINE, (http://www.forbes.com/asap/2000/0529/053_print.html)


McCain can, in fact, send e-mails and is computer savy. He's slow using keyboards because of his tortured fingers.


How Obama dares to make an ad mocking the injuries an American soldier suffered while being tortured is beyond my comprehension.

Stephen Hawking manages to check his email, run a motorized chair, and push the envelope in understanding the universe, and all he can do is blink his eyelashes. It's funny that the Party that accuses the opposition's voters of playing the victim runs right out and plays that card for their candidate. Weak.