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toosmallshoes
09-12-2008, 09:39 PM
http://www.thepresidentialcandidates.us/about-sarah-palin-a-letter-from-anne-kilkenny/741/

About Sarah Palin: A Letter From Anne Kilkenny

By admin on Sep 3, 2008 in John McCain

What follows is an open letter written by a resident of Wasilla, Alaska named Anne Kilkenny.

I am a resident of Wasilla, Alaska. I have known Sarah since 1992. Everyone here knows Sarah, so it is nothing special to say we are on a first-name basis. Our children have attended the same schools. Her father was my child’s favorite substitute teacher. I also am on a first name basis with her parents and mother-in-law. I attended more City Council meetings during her administration than about 99% of the residents of the city.

She is enormously popular; in every way she’s like the most popular girl in middle school. Even men who think she is a poor choice and won’t vote for her can’t quit smiling when talking about her because she is a “babe”.

It is astonishing and almost scary how well she can keep a secret. She kept her most recent pregnancy a secret from her children and parents for seven months. She is “pro-life”. She recently gave birth to a Down’s syndrome baby. There is no cover-up involved, here; Trig is her baby. She is energetic and hardworking. She regularly worked out at the gym.

She is savvy. She doesn’t take positions; she just “puts things out there” and if they prove to be popular, then she takes credit. Her husband works a union job on the North Slope for BP and is a champion snowmobile racer. Todd Palin’s kind of job is highly sought-after because of the schedule and high pay. He arranges his work schedule so he can fish for salmon in Bristol Bay for a month or so in summer, but by no stretch of the imagination is fishing their major source of income. Nor has her life-style ever been anything like that of native Alaskans. Sarah and her whole family are avid hunters. She’s smart.

Her experience is as mayor of a city with a population of about 5,000 (at the time), and less than 2 years as governor of a state with about 670,000 residents. During her mayoral administration most of the actual work of running this small city was turned over to an administrator. She had been pushed to hire this administrator by party power-brokers after she had gotten herself into some trouble over precipitous firings which had given rise to a recall campaign.

Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a “fiscal conservative”. During her 6 years as Mayor, she increased general government expenditures by over 33%. During those same 6 years the amount of taxes collected by the City increased by 38%. This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she promoted benefited large corporate property owners way more than they benefited residents.

The huge increases in tax revenues during her mayoral administration weren’t enough to fund everything on her wish list though, borrowed money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt, but left it with indebtedness of over $22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage the voters to borrow money for? Was it the infrastructure that she said she supported? The sewage treatment plant that the city lacked? or a new library? No. $1m for a park. $15m-plus for construction of a multi-use sports complex which she rushed through to build on a piece of property that the City didn’t even have clear title to, that was still in litigation 7 yrs later–to the delight of the lawyers involved! The sports complex itself is a nice addition to the community but a huge money pit, not the profit-generator she claimed it would be. She also supported bonds for $5.5m for road projects that could have been done in 5-7 yrs without any borrowing.

While Mayor, City Hall was extensively remodeled and her office redecorated more than once. These are small numbers, but Wasilla is a very small city. As an oil producer, the high price of oil has created a budget surplus in Alaska. Rather than invest this surplus in technology that will make us energy independent and increase efficiency, as Governor she proposed distribution of this surplus to every individual in the state.

In this time of record state revenues and budget surpluses, she recommended that the state borrow/bond for road projects, even while she proposed distribution of surplus state revenues: spend today’s surplus, borrow for needs.

She’s not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideasor compromise. As Mayor, she fought ideas that weren’t generated by her or her staff. Ideas weren’t evaluated on their merits, but on the basis of who proposed them.

While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin’s attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the Librarian are on her enemies list to this day.

Sarah complained about the “old boy’s club” when she first ran for Mayor, so what did she bring Wasilla? A new set of “old boys”. Palin fired most of the experienced staff she inherited. At the City and as Governor she hired or elevated new, inexperienced, obscure people, creating a staff totally dependent on her for their jobs and eternally grateful and fiercely loyal–loyal to the point of abusing their power to further her personal agenda, as she has acknowledged happened in the case of pressuring the State’s top cop (see below).

As Mayor, Sarah fired Wasilla’s Police Chief because he “intimidated” her, she told the press. As Governor, her recent firing of Alaska’s top cop has the ring of familiarity about it. He served at her pleasure and she had every legal right to fire him, but it’s pretty clear that an important factor in her decision to fire him was because he wouldn’t fire her sister’s ex-husband, a State Trooper. Under investigation for abuse of power, she has had to admit that more than 2 dozen contacts were made between her staff and family to the person that she later fired, pressuring him to fire her ex-brother-in-law. She tried to replace the man she fired with a man who she knew had been reprimanded for sexual harassment; when this caused a public furor, she withdrew her support.

She has bitten the hand of every person who extended theirs to her in help. The City Council person who personally escorted her around town introducing her to voters when she first ran for Wasilla City Council became one of her first targets when she was later elected Mayor. She abruptly fired her loyal City Administrator; even people who didn’t like the guy were stunned by this ruthlessness.

Fear of retribution has kept all of these people from saying anything publicly about her.

When then-Governor Murkowski was handing out political plums, Sarah got the best, Chair of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission: one of the few jobs not in Juneau and one of the best paid. She had no background in oil & gas issues. Within months of scoring this great job which paid $122,400/yr, she was complaining in the press about the high salary. I was told that she hated that job: the commute, the structured hours, the work. Sarah became aware that a member of this Commission (who was also the State Chair of the Republican Party) engaged in unethical behavior on the job.

In a gutsy move which some undoubtedly cautioned her could be political suicide, Sarah solved all her problems in one fell swoop: got out of the job she hated and garnered gobs of media attention as the patron saint of ethics and as a gutsy fighter against the “old boys’ club” when she dramatically quit, exposing this man’s ethics violations (for which he was fined).

As Mayor, she had her hand stuck out as far as anyone for pork from Senator Ted Stevens. Lately, she has castigated his pork-barrel politics and publicly humiliated him. She only opposed the “bridge to nowhere” after it became clear that it would be unwise not to.

As Governor, she gave the Legislature no direction and budget guidelines, then made a big grandstand display of line-item vetoing projects, calling them pork. Public outcry and further legislative action restored most of these projects–which had been vetoed simply because she was not aware of their importance–but with the unobservant she had gained a reputation as “anti-pork”.

She is solidly Republican: no political maverick. The State party leaders hate her because she has bit them in the back and humiliated them. Other members of the party object to her self-description as a fiscal conservative.

Around Wasilla there are people who went to high school with Sarah.

They call her “Sarah Barracuda” because of her unbridled ambition and predatory ruthlessness. Before she became so powerful, very ugly stories circulated around town about shenanigans she pulled to be made point guard on the high school basketball team. When Sarah’s mother-in-law, a highly respected member of the community and experienced manager, ran for Mayor, Sarah refused to endorse her.

As Governor, she stepped outside of the box and put together of package of legislation known as “AGIA” that forced the oil companies to march to the beat of her drum.

Like most Alaskans, she favors drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. She has questioned if the loss of sea ice is linked toglobal warming. She campaigned “as a private citizen” against a state initiaitive that would have either a) protected salmon streams from pollution from mines, or b) tied up in the courts all mining in the state (depending on who you listen to). She has pushed the State’s lawsuit against the Dept. of the Interior’s decision to list polar bears as threatened species.

McCain is the oldest person to ever run for President; Sarah will be a heartbeat away from being President. There has to be literally millions of Americans who are more knowledgeable and experienced than she. However, there’s a lot of people who have underestimated her and are regretting it.

CLAIM VS FACT

•“Hockey mom”: true for a few years
•“PTA mom”: true years ago when her first-born was in elementary school, not since
•“NRA supporter”: absolutely true
•social conservative: mixed. Opposes gay marriage, BUT vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits to employees in same-sex relationships (said she did this because it was unconsitutional).
•pro-creationism: mixed. Supports it, BUT did nothing as Governor to promote it.
•“Pro-life”: mixed. Knowingly gave birth to a Down’s syndrome baby BUT declined to call a special legislative session on some pro-life legislation
•“Experienced”: Some high schools have more students than Wasilla has residents. Many cities have more residents than the state of Alaska. No legislative experience other than City Council. Little hands-on supervisory or managerial experience; needed help of a city administrator to run town of about 5,000.
•political maverick: not at all
•gutsy: absolutely!
•open & transparent: ??? Good at keeping secrets. Not good at explaining actions.
•has a developed philosophy of public policy: no
•”a Greenie”: no. Turned Wasilla into a wasteland of big box stores and disconnected parking lots. Is pro-drilling off-shore and in ANWR.
•fiscal conservative: not by my definition!
•pro-infrastructure: No. Promoted a sports complex and park in a city without a sewage treatment plant or storm drainage system. Built streets to early 20th century standards.
•pro-tax relief: Lowered taxes for businesses, increased tax burden on residents
•pro-small government: No. Oversaw greatest expansion of city government in Wasilla’s history.
•pro-labor/pro-union. No. Just because her husband works union doesn’t make her pro-labor. I have seen nothing to support any claim that she is pro-labor/pro-union.

WHY AM I WRITING THIS?

First, I have long believed in the importance of being an informed voter. I am a voter registrar. For 10 years I put on student voting programs in the schools. If you google my name (Anne Kilkenny + Alaska), you will find references to my participation in local government, education, and PTA/parent organizations.

Secondly, I’ve always operated in the belief that “Bad things happen when good people stay silent”. Few people know as much as I do because few have gone to as many City Council meetings.

Third, I am just a housewife. I don’t have a job she can bump me out of. I don’t belong to any organization that she can hurt. But, I am no fool; she is immensely popular here, and it is likely that this will cost me somehow in the future: that’s life.

Fourth, she has hated me since back in 1996, when I was one of the 100 or so people who rallied to support the City Librarian against Sarah’s attempt at censorship.

Fifth, I looked around and realized that everybody else was afraid to say anything because they were somehow vulnerable.

CAVEATS

I am not a statistician. I developed the numbers for the increase in spending & taxation 2 years ago (when Palin was running for Governor) from information supplied to me by the Finance Director of the City of Wasilla, and I can’t recall exactly what I adjusted for: did I adjust for inflation? for population increases? Right now, it is impossible for a private person to get any info out of City Hall–they are swamped. So I can’t verify my numbers.

You may have noticed that there are various numbers circulating for the population of Wasilla, ranging from my “about 5,000″, up to 9,000. The day Palin’s selection was announced a city official told me that the current population is about 7,000. The official 2000 census count was 5,460. I have used about 5,000 because Palin was Mayor from 1996 to 2002, and the city was growing rapidly in the mid-90’s.

Biernutz
09-12-2008, 10:15 PM
Anne Kilkenny Is a DNC lackey and has numerous anti-Palin columns. She is less than impartial. This is old news.

toosmallshoes
09-12-2008, 10:34 PM
When it comes to Sarah Palin, old news is new news. She's only been nationally well known for a week and a half. And obviously impartiality is not the goal of this letter.

whottt
09-12-2008, 10:44 PM
When it comes to Sarah Palin, old news is new news. She's only been nationally well known for a week and a half. And obviously impartiality is not the goal of this letter.


Why not just post Barrack's opinion on her?


I'm wondering about this whole Israel thing toosmall......I don't suppose you have any links to Usama Bin Laden's opinion...I hear he's the one you want to go to when you want an objective opinion on the subject.

toosmallshoes
09-12-2008, 11:24 PM
I wasn't looking for an objective opinion. This is more like a brutal opinion. I wouldn't go to Bin Laden for any opinion. But I'd ask someone from Wasilla what they thought of Palin as a mayor and governor.

whottt
09-12-2008, 11:29 PM
I wasn't looking for an objective opinion. This is more like a brutal opinion. I wouldn't go to Bin Laden for any opinion. But I'd ask a Democrat who neglects to mention that she is one in this article from Wasilla what they thought of Palin as a mayor and governor.


Fixed.

whottt
09-12-2008, 11:45 PM
•“Hockey mom”: true for a few years

This is plain ignorance...her son that played Hockey is going to Iraq. The next 3 oldest kids are girls, one of whom is pregnant.


•pro-creationism: mixed. Supports it, BUT did nothing as Governor to promote it.

Lie. She said it should be open to debate.




•“Pro-life”: mixed. Knowingly gave birth to a Down’s syndrome baby BUT declined to call a special legislative session on some pro-life legislation

She flat out said she wouldn't introduce any new anti-abortion legislation. At state level...in a heavy Republican State.




•“Experienced”: Some high schools have more students than Wasilla has residents. Many cities have more residents than the state of Alaska. No legislative experience other than City Council. Little hands-on supervisory or managerial experience; needed help of a city administrator to run town of about 5,000.

Um....compared to Obama?




•political maverick: not at all

Yeah...getting the head of the Republican Party ousted and running against an incumbent Republican Mayor doesn't qualify her as Maverick.



•open & transparent: ??? Good at keeping secrets. Not good at explaining actions.

:lmao so not keeping a secret makes you more trustworthy?




•pro-labor/pro-union. No. Just because her husband works union doesn’t make her pro-labor. I have seen nothing to support any claim that she is pro-labor/pro-union.


If you don't know, whore, then why did you put no?




WHY AM I WRITING THIS?

Because you're a Democrat.




What the media...what the Obama fans are doing, is spewing as much negative bullshit as it is humanly possible to spew, to change the perception from positive to negative.

But everyone knows they're doing it...and quite simply, no one trusts ANYTHING the Democrats or the Obama campaign say.

ANYTHING.

And the smears piss people off.

And the Democratic Party is going right down the toilet right before our eyes.

So by all means...keep it up.

Mr. Peabody
09-12-2008, 11:53 PM
This is plain ignorance...her son that played Hockey is going to Iraq. The next 3 oldest kids are girls, one of whom is pregnant.

Um....compared to Obama?



The odd thing is seeing McCain now embrace this mayoral and gubernatorial experience are really valuable when pre-Palin, he stated that such experience doesn't prepare you for the Presidency.

"I have had a strong and a long relationship on national security, I've been involved in every national crisis that this nation has faced since Beirut, I understand the issues, I understand and appreciate the enormity of the challenge we face from radical Islamic extremism," the Senator declared. "I am prepared. I am prepared. I need no on-the-job training. I wasn't a mayor for a short period of time. I wasn't a governor for a short period of time."

The funny thing is that he was referring to Giuliani (mayor of New York City, largest city in the nation for 8 years) and Romney (governor of Mass. for four years). And somehow, their experience was lacking. Strange.

whottt
09-12-2008, 11:58 PM
The odd thing is seeing McCain now embrace this mayoral and gubernatorial experience are really valuable when pre-Palin, he stated that such experience doesn't prepare you for the Presidency.

No one cares...



The funny thing is that he was referring to Giuliani (mayor of New York City, largest city in the nation for 8 years) and Romney (governor of Mass. for four years). And somehow, their experience was lacking. Strange.

No one cares...


Govenors have a track record of being successful Presidents...that's the bottom line. Meanwhile...who was the last Senator who won the Presidency?

How'd that work out?

toosmallshoes
09-13-2008, 12:31 AM
Fixed.
Wow. So you went into my quote, changed what I said, and then presented it as my original thought. Typical Karl Rove bullshit. By the way... as far as your comment about Governors making great presidents compared to Senators...McCain is a Senator. Or had you forgotten, like everyone else that he is actually still at the top of the republican ticket?

whottt
09-13-2008, 01:02 AM
Wow. So you went into my quote, changed what I said, and then presented it as my original thought. Typical Karl Rove bullshit.
How is it Karl Rove bullshit when it is obvious I changed it?

Nonthless, she is a Democrat, and she didn't feel the need to mention that in her objective analysis.






By the way... as far as your comment about Governors making great presidents compared to Senators...McCain is a Senator. Or had you forgotten, like everyone else that he is actually still at the top of the republican ticket?


No...it's just that Obama and Biden are both Senators, so it's still a disadvantage.


The last dual Senator ticket I guess would be Bush SR, and Quayle, not exactly a banner pairing. And that's not really a dual Senatorial ticket...since Bush had been a VP for 8 years and beore that a lot of things since his Senate days prior to becoming VP. Still...two Senators, not exactly a top notch pairing.

Before that you have to go back to Ford, who became President without even being on a ballot.

Nixon had been a Senator, although like Bush Sr. he had been a VP since his Senate days.

LBJ was a Senator...I guess he was more of a Senator than a VP since he'd been a Senator for many years and only been a VP for 2. He was good in some ways but not in others.


So that means you have to go all the way back to JFK to find a truly non shitty Senatorial Presidency...and he got shot.



Govenors have a much better record...at least the Republicans have one on the ballot. Instead of two guys that have nothing but Senate experience.

toosmallshoes
09-13-2008, 05:53 PM
It doesn't mention whether she's a republican or democrat. So inserting that in there is just a guess. Perhaps she's actually a pissed off rebublican. It sounds like she has plenty of reasons to be ticked regardless of her party affiliation. And considering all of the lies the republicans are using as campaign ads, I'm more inclined to believe her if she is a democrat anyway.
I also don't understand why the mere fact that Palin is a Governor makes her a better choice for running mate than Biden was for Obama? He has plenty of foreign policy experience whereas Palin has zero experience with foreign policy. Between McCain's utter lack of a clue about the economy, and Palin's complete ignorance of foreign policy it seems like with the pairing of the two it makes absolutely no sense to vote for them in the general election. They're totally underqualified to do their job.

Bartleby
09-13-2008, 06:22 PM
Govenors have a much better record...at least the Republicans have one on the ballot. Instead of two guys that have nothing but Senate experience.

What a total crock of shit argument.

Do you really believe that, if elected, McCain is going to seek out Palin's advise because of all that knowledge she gained being a small town mayor and the governor of Alaska?

Findog
09-13-2008, 06:27 PM
The last dual Senator ticket I guess would be Bush SR, and Quayle, not exactly a banner pairing. And that's not really a dual Senatorial ticket...since Bush had been a VP for 8 years and beore that a lot of things since his Senate days prior to becoming VP. Still...two Senators, not exactly a top notch pairing.



Bush Sr. was never a US Senator.

whottt
09-13-2008, 06:32 PM
Bush Sr. was never a US Senator.


Ok so he was a Rep...point remains he was a Congressman.

whottt
09-13-2008, 06:34 PM
What a total crock of shit argument.

Do you really believe that, if elected, McCain is going to seek out Palin's advise because of all that knowledge she gained being a small town mayor and the governor of Alaska?

Sure, you want to bet?


I predict he is going to take her advice on Anwar...

whottt
09-13-2008, 06:45 PM
It doesn't mention whether she's a republican or democrat. So inserting that in there is just a guess.

No..it's called checking the source, a relatively easy action for non-asshats.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/03/us/politics/03wasilla.html?em

According to the New York Times she's a Democrat.





Perhaps she's actually a pissed off rebublican. It sounds like she has plenty of reasons to be ticked regardless of her party affiliation. And considering all of the lies the republicans are using as campaign ads, I'm more inclined to believe her if she is a democrat anyway.

No shit..and I'm less inclined to take anything you post seriously...

Propaganda whores a dime a dozen on the internet.




I also don't understand why the mere fact that Palin is a Governor makes her a better choice for running mate than Biden was for Obama? He has plenty of foreign policy experience whereas Palin has zero experience with foreign policy. Between McCain's utter lack of a clue about the economy, and Palin's complete ignorance of foreign policy it seems like with the pairing of the two it makes absolutely no sense to vote for them in the general election. They're totally underqualified to do their job.

I bet there's a lot you don't understand.

Whatever....you're biased and you believe negatives without checking the authenticity, arguing with you would be a dead end so I'll just save us both the effort.


I'm glad to know where you stand on Obama...but you didn't have to tell me. It was obvious from the propaganda you posted and the way in which you did it.

ChuckD
09-13-2008, 06:50 PM
...

The last dual Senator ticket I guess would be Bush SR, and Quayle, not exactly a banner pairing. And that's not really a dual Senatorial ticket...since Bush had been a VP for 8 years and beore that a lot of things since his Senate days prior to becoming VP. Still...two Senators, not exactly a top notch pairing.
George HW Bush was never a senator


Before that you have to go back to Ford, who became President without even being on a ballot.
Gerald R. Ford was never a senator


Nixon had been a Senator, although like Bush Sr. he had been a VP since his Senate days.

LBJ was a Senator...I guess he was more of a Senator than a VP since he'd been a Senator for many years and only been a VP for 2. He was good in some ways but not in others.

Congratulations. You batted 50%, whotty. Two of your guys were never senators, and one who was (Nixon) actually served a whole two years of a single six year term.

shelshor
09-13-2008, 07:36 PM
....
I also don't understand why the mere fact that Palin is a Governor makes her a better choice for running mate than Biden was for Obama? He has plenty of foreign policy experience whereas Palin has zero experience with foreign policy. Between McCain's utter lack of a clue about the economy, and Palin's complete ignorance of foreign policy it seems like with the pairing of the two it makes absolutely no sense to vote for them in the general election. They're totally underqualified to do their job.

For whatever reasons the United States has traditionally chosen to promote sitting governors, military officers-usually generals, mayors and even a university president rather than sitting Congressmen to the Office of President

whottt
09-13-2008, 09:20 PM
George HW Bush was never a senator

Gerald R. Ford was never a senator

Congratulations. You batted 50%, whotty. Two of your guys were never senators, and one who was (Nixon) actually served a whole two years of a single six year term.



Congratulations.

A. It makes not one iota of difference to the point I was making.
B. Bush had already been brought up, and responded to.
C. You're anal.
D. You have no idea what this argument is about.

The fact of the matter is the list of Presidents that were Govenors is far more impressive than the list of Presidents that were members of Congress when you consider the numbers involved.


Presidents that were Governors:

Thomas Jefferson
Andrew Johnson
Grover Cleveland
Theodore Roosevelt
Calvin Coolidge
Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
Bill Clinton
W



Presidents that were both Govenors and Members of Congress:


James Monroe
Andrew Jackson
Martin Van Buren
James Polk
Rutherford B. Hayes
William McKinley
Woodrow Wilson




Presidents that were Members of Congress:

James Madison
John Quincy Adams
William Henry Harrison
John Tyler
Millard Fillmore
Franklin Pierce
James Buchanan
Abraham Lincoln
James Garfield
Benjamin Harrison
Warren G. Harding
Harry Truman
John F. Kennedy
Lyndon Baines Johnson
Richard M. Nixon
Gerald Ford
George HW Bush


Presidents that were neither Govenors nor Members of Congress(includes some VPs and cabinet members):

George Washington
John Adams
Zachary Taylor
USS. Grant
Chester Arthur
William Taft
Herbert Hoover
Dwight D. Eisenhower




So basically the members of Congress get 3(Lincoln, Truman and Kennedy) out of 17, while the Govenors get 5(Jefferson, the Roosevelts, Reagan and Clinton) out of 10. And the jury is still out on W and what he's started in the ME.

Incicentally...6 of the 17 congress dudes died or resigned from office.


Theree is a vastly greater chance that a President elected from Congress is going to suck, die or quit, than there is for a President who was a Govenor.

ChuckD
09-13-2008, 10:31 PM
I'm going to sidestep the fact that the point I was making is that Senators make worse presidents than governors because I completely whiffed on my examples. I'm also going to keep making inane non-points, hoping to win by you giving up, like I usually do when I have no point.

whottt
09-13-2008, 10:56 PM
I'm anal

ChuckD
09-13-2008, 11:59 PM
I don't know the difference between a US Representative and a US Senator, and consider those who do to be anal, a topic that obviously turns me on.

whottt
09-14-2008, 12:38 AM
I think there is a huge difference between being a Rep and a Senator in terms of ascending to the Presidency, to where I will devote 15 minutes of my life making a post about it. I have zero understanding of the diffrences between legislative and executive government, and have no clue what this argument is about, and I proved it thorgoughly. I also brought up Bush 5 minutes after whottt had already rebutted that point thus rendering my entire nitpicking post redundant before the fact. Why? Because I am a hairsplitter and an asshat, who mistakes anal nitpicking for intelligence, and makes redundant posts.

ChuckD
09-14-2008, 09:35 AM
blah,blah, blah. I have no point that hasn't already been sent down in flames, but will keep posting until you give up out of boredom. Then, I win, just like this.

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/images/hehe/fuckedup/arguing_over_internet.jpg