Marc Stein: Spurs interested in Cliff Robinson

[GhostofAlfrederickHughes]

Not a bad pickup, although he certainly won't help the team's free-throw shooting (especially if it comes at the expense of Malik Rose)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=1988190

[ducks]

As the NBA's trade deadline approaches, few players are drawing more interest than Golden State's Clifford Robinson.


Clifford Robinson
Forward-Center
Golden State Warriors
Profile


2004-2005 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
40 8.8 2.8 1.8 .403 .615

League sources told ESPN.com on Wednesday night that "more than five teams" are considering bids for Robinson and that the 38-year-old is "almost certain" to be moved by the Warriors before the Feb. 24 deadline.

Robinson, at this stage of his career, is a defensive specialist who can guard big men of various sizes and still occupy defenses occasionally with his shooting range. Minnesota's Kevin Garnett once described Robinson as "hands-down the best defensive player in the league."

After unexpectedly emerging as the Warriors' starting center for much of the season, the 6-foot-10, 240-pounder also holds appeal in the trade market because his salary is reasonable ($5.3 million) and because his contract expires at season's end.

New Jersey has shown interest in Robinson for weeks, even before the Nets began to climb in the Atlantic Division standings behind a rejuvenated Vince Carter. It remains to be seen if the Nets are prepared to add another center after claiming Elden Campbell on waivers, but sources say they'll face competition from a clutch of Western Conference clubs if they do continue to pursue Robinson.

San Antonio, Houston and Minnesota are also among the interested, according to sources. The Spurs have been particularly active in the search for frontcourt depth, as they await word on a possible comeback by Karl Malone.

Yet with Malone unsure if he wants to make another title run or stay retired, and with Toronto said to be increasingly reluctant to move Donyell Marshall, Robinson could become their best option. The Spurs, also looking to trim payroll, have had veteran forward Malik Rose on the trading block since last season, which creates the possibility of a Rose-for-Robinson swap if the Warriors are willing to absorb Rose's contract.

Cleveland and Miami, meanwhile, are the East playoff contenders looking hardest for depth on the front line.

Robinson is expected to return to Golden State's lineup Friday at New Orleans after completing a five-game suspension for noncompliance with the league's drug policy. According to agent Brad Marshall, Robinson received the suspension not for substance abuse but for missing a check-in phone call required by the aftercare guidelines of Robinson's marijuana suspension in 2001.

Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. To e-mail him, click here. Also, click here to send a question for possible use on ESPNEWS.



this shows me spurs do not think mailman will say yes OR they are forcing mailman to say one way or the other

[Rummpd]

Might not be a bad move for both sides.

[FromWayDowntown]

Pop has no appreciation for character

[ShoogarBear]

Uncle Cliffie = Playoff Clutchness


















. . . riiiiiiight!

[Kori Ellis]

I told timvp last week that if the Spurs weren't going to use Malik, they should just trade him for Cliff.

Not that I think he'll be of much use, but he's an expiring contract.

I'd much rather that they just use Malik though.

[GhostofAlfrederickHughes]

Agree, Kori---for what they PAY Malik, he should play more. Heck, for what they pay him, he should probably start! But if Robinson helps them this year AND allows them cap space to add other players in coming years (at the expense of Malik's contract), it's not a bad move. Which, I suspect, is precisely why the Spurs might have expressed interest....

[bigzak25]

i'll miss malik. Pop & Co. will definitely pull the trigger if GS bites...

[usckk]

If this is true, it is fun to analysis what this means.

1) Are the Spurs letting Rose play more lately to showcase him for potential suitors?
2) Are the Spurs willing to trade Rose because they are confident about Malone coming?
3) Are the Spurs going to package anyone?

I think the Warriors would benefit as well. They lack bigman, so Rose would help a great deal.

[SPARKY]

Holy crap. 30 year old Malik Rose for the rotting corpse of 68 year old Cliff Robinson's career? Oh yeah, it's always been about Malik being unable to perform. Give me a fucking break.


After unexpectedly emerging as the Warriors' starting center for much of the season, the 6-foot-10, 240-pounder also holds appeal in the trade market because his salary is reasonable ($5.3 million) and because his contract expires at season's end.



Yet with Malone unsure if he wants to make another title run or stay retired, and with Toronto said to be increasingly reluctant to move Donyell Marshall, Robinson could become their best option. The Spurs, also looking to trim payroll, have had veteran forward Malik Rose on the trading block since last season, which creates the possibility of a Rose-for-Robinson swap if the Warriors are willing to absorb Rose's contract.

The Warriors used to be interested in Malik, but Gary St. Jean is no longer the Warriors' GM. Still, Malik for 4 years and $27 mil has to look like a bargain compared to Adonal Foyle's $42 mil or whatever.

In any event, if Pop/RC move Malik Rose for 78 year old Clifford Robinson I'm going to join the FSP Playa Hata Hall of Fame.

[bigzak25]

the question is what will be more valuable in the playoffs this year?

malik's bench offense or cliff's bench defense.

[usckk]

If this trade does occur, I would say the defense is more important. The Spurs would have to go through Yao, Dampier, Webber, and Shaq to win the whole thing. We have plenty of offense elsewhere.

FYI: I believe Malone will make a decision either Today or Saturday. It doesn't make sense to announce on a day when the Spurs have a game.

[Iron Giant]

Love Malik's game....but as long as Pop doesn't trust him, he's going to press. Unfortunately, as much good as that says about Malik's character (does anyone else on the team appear nearly as eager-to-please?), Pop doesn't care about eagerness nearly so much as he hates turnovers and other errors. At this point, trading Malik is probably doing him a favor. Shame, though....

[SPARKY]

Malik actually gives a damn about winning and being worthy of that contract after he signed it. All he gets in return is internal bitching about that contract which ultimately results in him being a mainstay on the trade block. It's not hard to see how that has affected Malik's play and led to all of this bullshit between him and Pop.

The only reason you move Malik Rose for crap like Cliff Robinson is to reduce long term payroll. That's all it's ever been about when it comes to Malik Rose no matter how much some of you want to believe that Sean Marks or Caldwell Jones genuinely had beaten him out for a spot in the rotation. How Malik was playing or whether he was cross with Pop meant nothing.

I hate seeing a team weaken its talent base in order to be cheap. The Spurs have no excuse now. They're just seeking to keep the payroll down in order to milk that arena deal for all its worth. It's their right, but it's also our right as paying fans and taxpayers to call them out on it.

[usckk]

Caldwell Jones? who is that?

[BigVee]

I think it would be a good move. Who is the threat to the Spurs? Malik is not going to guard Lewis, not going to guard Marion, or Dirk, or anyone else of that ilk. You rent Robinson for a year, lose the salary, Scola comes in next year, money to sign Brown. What is the downside? Malik is not the key to winning it all this year.

[SPARKY]

88 year old Clifford Robinson is not a defensive stalwart he's a piece of dogshit at this point in his career. In case some of you haven't been paying attention Malik Rose does a pretty solid job staying in front of offensive players out on the perimeter, regardless of position. Also, I'd say that the ability to play physical in the paint is far more important at this point to the Spurs than a guy whose only redeeming quality is his ability to play the power forward position 20 feet away from the rim.

What if Scola can't hack it in the NBA? You just gave up a 30 year old proven playoff performer who certainly has 4 more solid years in the NBA up for 98 year old Cliff Robinson and losing salary. Fuck that.

[timvp]

I love how the Spurs are going after the two biggest playoff chokers in NBA history in Uncle Cliffy and Aunt Karla.

Nice.

:shootme

[ducks]

the spurs did not tell rose to burry his head in his jersey
the spurs did not force rose to go public and say he quit last year
you play him 20-30 minutes a game or you move him
simple concept
problem is you can not teach health and after all these years you can not teach him ball handling skills

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I have to take the side of the naysayers on this one.

I never liked 98 year old Cliff Robinson's game 70 years ago when he was supposed to be good. I'm not sure he could give us anything now that it's already the year 2045 and we're gunning for our 30th title.

[BigVee]

I think Pop is thinking defense not offense. They won't choke defensively, and Spurs don't need their offense. Malik can't guard Marion or Lewis. He wasn't even on the floor v. the Suns. To me, stopping Marion is the key. Suns have added, I just don't think the Spurs should stand pat.

[ducks]

I do not think cliff is the long term future


spurs look like they want a big as insurance in postseason
who would you like the spurs to get



they wanted chandler!

[SPARKY]

And Uncle Cliffy is going to stop a Lewis or a Marion? Please.

[SPARKY]

Yes, think long term ducks. Instead of having a guy who can be your 1st bigman reserve for the next 4 years at the cost of an average salary you are going to dump him for an aging has been and pin your hopes on a guy who hasn't played one minute in the NBA panning out.

The Spurs are going to be capped out for the forseeable future so it's not like if Scola is a bust they will have the flexibility to rectify that...and cap room will be important given what crap bigs are going for nowadays.

[BigVee]

And Uncle Cliffy is going to stop a Lewis or a Marion? Please.

He would do a better job on them than Rose. His length will bother the "3" and his shooting threat will take Marion away from the basket. No, he won't stop anyone, but I think he might slow them down. My opinion, could be wrong.

[SPARKY]

Length isn't important footspeed is when it comes to those two.

[BigVee]

Well Robinson has at least one of those attributes, Rose has neither.

[SPARKY]

Huh?

Also, I neglected to mention lateral movement.

[BigVee]

Clarification. I believe you need length and speed to cover those guys. My point...Rose has neither...witness his absence from the court v. Pho. I would rather have someone like Robinson chasing Marion than trying to bring TD away from the basket. Bottom line...Rose is not a make or break player. IMO he is expendable and if you can get a player who fills a very short term specific need to win a championship, you do it.

[SPARKY]

Rose wasn't absent from the court during the Phoenix game.

Rose certainly has footspeed I have no idea how you have determined that he does not. You also neglected to recognize his lateral movement which is also another plus in his favor when it comes to defending guys away from the paint.

[SPARKY]

Were the Spurs ousted by the Lakers due to a lack of length in the frontcourt rotation or a lack of physical play? Hmmmm...

Rose is not expendable unless you want to see the Spurs repeat the same postseason mistake.

[texasqb2]

This trade is not about Cliff Robinson, its about moving Malik and his contract. Malone will be here any day. We have Scola coming over next season and 2 first round picks. We just need an expiring contract to sit the bench like Malik will do if Malone comes. If Cliff can help us, great, if not, oh well we have the money we need to bring Scola and sign our two picks.

[BigVee]

Beno, Brown and Barry all played more minutes in that game versus Pho. Last year was last year. The Suns and Sonics play a different style..

[SPARKY]

This trade is not about Cliff Robinson, its about moving Malik and his contract.

Correct.



Malone will be here any day. We have Scola coming over next season and 2 first round picks. We just need an expiring contract to sit the bench like Malik will do if Malone comes. If Cliff can help us, great, if not, oh well we have the money we need to bring Scola and sign our two picks.

That's great. What if Scola's a bust and you can't get anything with those two picks other than more overlooked international guards?

[SPARKY]

Beno, Brown and Barry all played more minutes in that game versus Pho. Last year was last year. The Suns and Sonics play a different style..

Rose had 20 minutes in that game @ Phoenix.

Seattle's success against the Spurs has been due in no small part to the physical play of Fortson and the other Sonic frontcourt scrubs. Surely you recall Malik leading the run back against the Sonics in the last time the two teams met with Ray Allen on the court.

[IcemanCometh]

isn't cliffy an alcoholic or at least a baby eater?

[exstatic]

Uncle Cliffy is a playoff choker, with the rock anyway. Just tell him to defend, and not shoot.

GS is not going to do this straight up for Malik, so those who want Cliff, be prepared to lose something else.

[Kori Ellis]

Golden State already said last month that they were willing to take long contracts for any servicable big man in exchange for Cliff or others on their roster. They are over the cap anyway, so Malik's contract won't kill them.

What they probably won't like is the $3M that they have to pay because of that clause in the Malik's contract. Is it possible that the Spurs pay part of it? Is that allowed?

[SPARKY]

You know what people? The Spurs already have a 58 year old 6'10" forward who can give you everything defensively and offensively that Uncle Cliffy can plus he's a little more savvy when it comes to the postseason.

You can't sell this potential move as one that brings anything to this team this season. It's a reduction in the talent base in order to help the Spurs be some cheap mofos.

[SPARKY]

Yes Kori, the Spurs should be able to give them up to $3 mil in cash as a part of the deal.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I miss 108 year old Kevin Willis and those short little arms of his.

[Phenomanul]

88 year old Clifford Robinson is not a defensive stalwart he's a piece of dogshit at this point in his career. In case some of you haven't been paying attention Malik Rose does a pretty solid job staying in front of offensive players out on the perimeter, regardless of position. Also, I'd say that the ability to play physical in the paint is far more important at this point to the Spurs than a guy whose only redeeming quality is his ability to play the power forward position 20 feet away from the rim.

What if Scola can't hack it in the NBA? You just gave up a 30 year old proven playoff performer who certainly has 4 more solid years in the NBA up for 98 year old Cliff Robinson and losing salary. Fuck that.


It's rather funny that you keep adding 10 years to Cliff's age every time you mention it...

58 --> 68 ---> 78 ---- skipped 88 ---> 98 (above) :spin :spin

edit: you didn't skip 88... it was here all along..

[SPARKY]

88 and 98 were in the same post.

[Phenomanul]

Isn't Robinson considered Mr. Title Kryptonite as well (Karl Malone being Mrs. Title Kryptonite)???

Been forever in the playoffs and his teams don't get over the hump...

[texasqb2]

That's great. What if Scola's a bust and you can't get anything with those two picks other than more overlooked international guards?


Your opinion is biased and I dont even know you just have to look and see the Malik picture. Yes Malik has his times when he plays well, but on the whole with his contract in the equation, he's awful. He's undersized meaning he doesnt have a snowballs chance to do what we want him to do, guard the bigs. I am tired of seeing him throwing up 20 footers. We dont need him and dont want him, Pop may even throw one of the first rounders in the deal for someone to just take him. Scola is legit, hes not gonna be a star, but he can surely give us what Rose gives us plus more. Did you not see him in the Olympics?

[SPARKY]

Your opinion is biased and I dont even know you just have to look and see the Malik picture. Yes Malik has his times when he plays well, but on the whole with his contract in the equation, he's awful.


Second sentence in and we're at the contract already. Go figure.




He's undersized meaning he doesnt have a snowballs chance to do what we want him to do, guard the bigs.


Yeah, let's just ignore the 5+ seasons when he was the primary backup bigman for the Spurs. I guess he couldn't play defense then for Gregg Popovich. Yeah.



I am tired of seeing him throwing up 20 footers.


Then you should be tired of Robert Horry doing the same because both Rose and Horry shoot them at about the same clip and for the same accuracy. Also of note is that the coaching staff routinely will call for Malik to take the J from the top of the key area off the PnR.

Actually, did you miss the game last night? I don't recall Malik having a problem with the 20 foot J.



We dont need him and dont want him,


Sounds like you just don't want him.



Pop may even throw one of the first rounders in the deal for someone to just take him.


Awesome, give up a quality big for an old has been and compound the error by throwing in a draft pick.



Scola is legit, hes not gonna be a star, but he can surely give us what Rose gives us plus more.


Oh really? Is he gonna bring the same physical Eurostyle play that Rasho Nesterovic has?



Did you not see him in the Olympics?

Yes I did. But that's the Olympics. Zarko Paspaji once actually looked like a NBA player in the Olympics.

[spurster]

No.

It's a bad idea to depend on age on the floor, see Terry Porter (who was on the floor), and Malone himself (injured for last year's title series). To make it worse, neither Cliff nor Malone are clutch, and the West has too many teams that get out and run.

[MannyIsGod]

Now Malik naysayers are saying he has no footspeed?

WTF? He's the fastest big we have, easy.

[T Park]

God what an absolutely horribly pathetic trade this would be.

Clifford Robinson couldnt play well in the playoffs in Portland and Phoenix.

A couple years in Oakland is gonna fix this???


Kori,

I remember you bringing up a similar trade like this, but with Dale Davis being the name not Clifford Robinson.

[BigVee]

Aren't you all overlooking something? Pop has been trying to MOVE this guy for a solid year. If he is...the fastest big man, the 5 year tough guy in the middle, the good jump shooter, etc etc, why on earth would a team be looking to unload a guy like that? Could it be your analysis of his value to this team and his skill level is wrong? Plus, where are all the teams lining up to take him off the Spurs hands?

[SPARKY]

Before I forget, Malik is also not afraid to go strong to the rim, unlike a certain starting center in the Western Conference...

[T Park]

Brad Miller?

[SPARKY]

Aren't you all overlooking something? Pop has been trying to MOVE this guy for a solid year. If he is...the fastest big man, the 5 year tough guy in the middle, the good jump shooter, etc etc, why on earth would a team be looking to unload a guy like that? Could it be your analysis of his value to this team and his skill level is wrong? Plus, where are all the teams lining up to take him off the Spurs hands?


You are overlooking something: Rose's contract does not fit into the Spurs' long term budget. That is what this has been all about from day one. The Spurs are making a decision based on their desire to squeeze a few bucks out of player salaries instead of a basketball one.

The Spurs will be capped out regardless of what happens with Rose. Considering that the Spurs are looking at a free agent market for bigmen which has guys like Brian Cardinal and Adonal Foyle commanding long term deals for $40 mil guaranteed, moving a proven big and playoff performer like Rose (with a contract that is basically the league average per annum) makes little sense.

[BigVee]

You honestly feel that they would move Rose if they felt that by doing so they would in any way jeopardize their chances to win a title this year? Come on!

[SPARKY]

What else do you call moving Rose for 38 year old playoff nonperformer Cliff Robinson?

[MannyIsGod]

You honestly feel that they would move Rose if they felt that by doing so they would in any way jeopardize their chances to win a title this year? Come on!

Yes. Where the hell have you been?

[BigVee]

What else do you call moving Rose for 38 year old playoff nonperformer Cliff Robinson?

I call your particular evaluation of such a move incorrect.

[T Park]

So the Spurs are tanking the season.

[MannyIsGod]

So the Spurs are tanking the season.

Next time ask somebody to help you instead of REACHING for it.

[SPARKY]

This franchise has made moves (and avoided some) before that were long term in nature and which could definitely be seen as hurting their immediate title chances.

Passing on a Payton for Parker offer in the summer of 2001 is the first one that comes to mind (that will be an upcoming feature in FSP Recollections©). Another is letting Derek Anderson depart and taking back Steve Smith in the S&T, also in 2001.

If we want to go back into Spurs history there was also the time Spurs owner Billy Joe "Red" McCombs passed on a trade offer of Charles Barkley for Terry Cummings and Willie Anderson. That was in the summer of 1992. Barkley went on to have a MVP season and carry his new team to the NBA Finals.

[MannyIsGod]

If Malik was making the minimum, nobody would talk about trading him.

The contract is the #1 issue. He contributes when he plays, but they don't play him. Whatever, this is like a dog chasing his tail.

[T Park]

they would move Rose if they felt that by doing so they would in any way jeopardize their chances to win a title this year?

The way Im reading that Manny, it says, TANK IMO.

You agreed with that.

You think they want to tank the season, a 39-11 season by trading the 2nd big man off the bench?

[SPARKY]

I call your particular evaluation of such a move incorrect.

And I explained above why your call itself was incorrect.

[MannyIsGod]

The way Im reading that Manny, it says, TANK IMO.

You agreed with that.

You think they want to tank the season, a 39-11 season by trading the 2nd big man off the bench?

And for your next birthday ask for a dictionary.

jeopardize

v 1: pose a threat to; present a danger to; "The pollution is endangering the crops" [syn: endanger, jeopardise, menace, threaten, imperil, peril] 2: put at risk

Do you still think it means to tank?

[SPARKY]

The way Im reading that Manny, it says, TANK IMO.

You agreed with that.

You think they want to tank the season, a 39-11 season by trading the 2nd big man off the bench?


It's not "tanking" but it is definitely a move with something other than basketball in mind.

[T Park]

I agree, it does JEOPARDIZE the chance to win a ring.

IMO, it flat out kills the season.


I dont know why the fuck theyd trade for a dope smoking stiff like him to begin with.


7 mill to play with in the offseason aint alot.

Now if they could package Rose and Rasho for supposedly Boozer who the Jazz want to get rid of.

NOW WERE TALKIN!

[SPARKY]

Even if Rose comes off the cap, that wouldn't put them $7 mil under the cap (also Rose is slated to make about $6 mil in 2005-06). But even assuming it did, most if would go to Scola and Brown.

[T Park]

4 of it woudl I agree.

The other 2 would be spent on someone worthless.

If it was a legit 7, that youd have after Brown and Scola, then I could see doing this, ala going for a Stromile Swift.


This trade, anyway you cut it, sucks.

Period. Rose is getting back in his groove, and is playing his way out of the casa de perro.

Come on Spurs, chill out on the trade rumors, sign Malone, cut Marks, be done with the moves for the season.

[Kori Ellis]

Kori,

I remember you bringing up a similar trade like this, but with Dale Davis being the name not Clifford Robinson.

True, I talked about Davis here on the forum. Cliff is just something that I brought up to LJ the other night (off the forum) when I went through all the NBA players with expiring contracts that are making Malik-ish salary.

[SPARKY]

Here's a way to look at it: if you move Rose for an old guy with an expiring contract then you are reducing your team's talent base. You are also betting a lot on Scola. The Spurs could just keep Rose for now, see what they have in Scola next season, and then if warranted move Rose. They'd probably be able to get more for Rose then too.

What remains on Rose's contract is only going to continue to get smaller while the market price for NBA reserve bigmen is going to continue to increase. Rose is 30 years old, not 35. Malik is basically making the NBA average salary and for his capability I'd say that's a very fair price for him.

[T Park]

Yeah its not like its gonna go from 7 to 9 to 11.

its actually gonna go DOWN!!

Scola is definately not a sure thing, and I would hold on to some insurance in case hes more Dino Radja than Toni Kukoc.

[MannyIsGod]

The salary isn't tha big, the Spurs are just cheap.

[T Park]

The Spurs could just keep Rose for now, see what they have in Scola next season, and then if warranted move Rose

Agree 100%.

If Scola comes over and is as good as everyone is hyping him to be, THEN you move Rose, and get something better for him than Mary Jane Robinson.

[usckk]

It doesn't matter if you all think Malik is good. It's what Pop thinks that matters. He just doesn't not like or have faith in Malik anymore.

[exstatic]

7 mill to play with in the offseason aint alot.
It's not about what they can do this summer, necessarily. That 7 Mil does NOT become caproom, since they are already over. It's about paying folks like Scola, Devin, Beno, Sanikidze, and Javtokas down the line, without paying the 2 for 1 luxtax. That becomes harder every year as Malik's contract will continue to escalate. If they can find a taker now, they don't have to pay him 10 or 11 mil in a few years, which his contract calls for. They'll be looking at hard choices in a few years: letting players walk, or paying $22M for Malik's services, $11M to Malik and $11M to the league in taxes.

[Kori Ellis]

Not that this matters, but Malik doesn't make $7M. He makes $5.4M this year and barely over $6M next.

[exstatic]

Yeah its not like its gonna go from 7 to 9 to 11.

its actually gonna go DOWN!!
What are you smoking? Of course the contract goes up.

[SPARKY]

That's assuming that they will be close to the Lux Tax threshold. I don't see that.

The Spurs are looking to milk that arena deal a little bit. There should be no excuses for them now. They're not playing behind the blue curtain anymore.

Also if I am not mistaken I recall Holt claiming that he was prepared to lose the Lux Tax distributions and start paying a little tax.

So he said.

[T Park]

What are you smoking? Of course the contract goes up.


Chill ex, I thought he made 7 this year, and then 6 the next.

Therfore going down.

Settle settle.

[SPARKY]

Malik's contract has been keeping pace with the average league salary. His salary increases at about $500K per year.

[T Park]

Total BS, to think thats too much.

If this trade goes down, Im suggesting a protest of the team.

[SPARKY]

:)

[exstatic]

I dont know why the fuck theyd trade for a dope smoking stiff like him to begin with.
...
Now if they could package Rose and Rasho for supposedly Boozer who the Jazz want to get rid of.
Lets examine those two statements in the same post, TPark. Cliff Robinson smoked dope, that is established. However, the Jazz already want to get rid of Boozer, after just signing him last summer? Why? Could it be that he and his agent lied their way out of the previous deal to hit the open market? I don't know about you, but I'd rather have someone who smokes some pot on the Spurs (we probably already do) than a liar like Boozer.

[T Park]

Well.

Boozer is locked in for 6 more years, so there isn't much more he could lie about I dont think.

Other than stuff like injuries I dont know.


Good question why the Jazz want to dump him already.

[MannyIsGod]

It's also assuming there is going to be a tax.

[SPARKY]

True. There might still be a tax but I suspect that the threshold will be bumped up a little bit.

Think about how many NBA owners would have a problem with paying out the current Spurs' contracts.

[SPARKY]

Also, this year the Spurs have the 7th lowest total payroll in the NBA (#24) at $47 mil. If you add $6 mil for the rather significant change in TP's salary next season and assume everything else holds constant, then the Spurs would have the 9th lowest total payroll (#22).

They're not even in the top half of the league in total payroll. Malik's contract is not some great burden for them.


http://www.nationwide.net/~patricia/misc/salaries05.txt


Team Payrolls

1. New York Knicks $102,442,544
2. Dallas Mavericks $91,553,496
3. Portland Trailblazers $83,671,312
4. Philadelphia 76ers $71,951,888
5. Minnesota Timberwolves $70,060,920
6. Memphis Grizzlies $67,010,824
7. Orlando Magic $66,445,252
8. Indiana Pacers $65,792,068
9. Los Angeles Lakers $65,059,100
10. Boston Celtics $64,577,356
11. Sacramento Kings $61,807,688
12. Toronto Raptors $61,703,772
13. Houston Rockets $60,222,300
14. Miami Heat $58,949,072
15. Chicago Bulls $57,276,136
16. Milwaukee Bucks $57,137,128
17. New Orleans Hornets $56,572,880
18. Golden State Warriors $54,943,724
19. New Jersey Nets $54,729,028
20. Detroit Pistons $54,574,980
21. Seattle Sonics $53,821,300
22. Washington Wizards $49,547,056
23. Cleveland Cavaliers $49,175,272
24. San Antonio Spurs $47,149,172
25. Los Angeles Clippers $45,170,768
26. Denver Nuggets $45,621,812
27. Phoenix Suns $44,256,720
28. Utah Jazz $43,160,808
29. Atlanta Hawks $40,684,848
30. Charlotte Bobcats $23,380,124

[SPARKY]

Look at that. The Spurs have a complete 8 man rotation (with the best player in the NBA no less) locked up for the next 4 seasons and they are in the bottom third of the NBA in total team payroll.

[T Park]

Parker gets a raise.

Probobly Ginobili

Nesterovic

Duncan might, or it stays the same.

Payroll will increase more than just Parker's 6 million.


Ill say this though, its an article about SPECULATION.


It more than likely wont happen, so lets chill on getting worked up over nothing.

[ShoogarBear]

Damn, look at where Phoenix and Seattle are, too.

Too bad for some cities you can't fire the owners.

[SPARKY]

When you also consider the fact that they have the draft rights to 4 prospects overseas, two 1st round picks this year, Sato and LJ3 on IR this year, and Devin Brown desiring to stick with his hometown team one starts not to buy their rationale of running Malik off because they need to move his contract. They have a nice pool of prospective talent and they can keep the rest of the roster filled out for cheap with them as well as old timers looking to score a ring and willing to play for the minimum.

.

[timvp]

You know what ... as a person who admires what Malik Rose brings to the game, I'd almost like to see him get traded so he can put up stats and put it in the faces of these Spurs fans who hate him for no reason. Sure he's not Tim or Dave, but he's a good championship level piece.

If he's averaging 15 and 10 on a Golden State or Boston team and the Spurs have to sign Carl Herrera or JR Reid as their backup big man, I don't want to hear any of you Malik hating Spurs fans complain.

[spurster]

It could be the Spurs have the scenario of obtaining both Malone and Cliff, moving Rose out to reduce team tension. Malone is certainly an upgrade and Cliffy works out fine on the IR. That might what the Spurs are thinking.

[SPARKY]

Yet Malone and Robinson would be here until the end of the season. What I suspect the Spurs are thinking is that hey, we can pay Scola $2 mil per because he's just glad to be in the league instead of paying Malik $6 mil per.

Now, if Scola can play like Malik for $4 mil less then fine. But that remains to be seen.

Personally I think Scola would make the ideal eventual replacement for Horry.

[BigVee]

timvp,

I find you to be knowledgeable and fair. Having read what you said about Malik, why, in your opinion does Pop seem to have this never-ending drive to get rid of him? I don't believe Pop would move someone he felt was intergral to the success of the team. I am not a Rose hater, but see his shortcomings. Help me understand.

[T Park]

Personally I think Scola would make the ideal eventual replacement for Horry.

Unreal, another thing we agree 100% on Spark.

Malik and Scola off the bench next year wouldve been fantastic.

Scola and Sean Marks off the bench next year makes me cringe.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I don't want the Spurs to trade Malik for Clifford Robinson. I'd like to go on the record so T Park doesn't put words in my mouth later on.


I DO want the Spurs to sign the Mailman for the remainder of the season at a prorated $1.1million because they won't have to sacrifice any of the true talent currently on the roster.

[timvp]

timvp,

I find you to be knowledgeable and fair. Having read what you said about Malik, why, in your opinion does Pop seem to have this never-ending drive to get rid of him? I don't believe Pop would move someone he felt was intergral to the success of the team. I am not a Rose hater, but see his shortcomings. Help me understand.

Problems with Malik:

1) His contract. The Spurs need to get rid of some money and have promised Holt that they'd do so. Out of the people who are locked in long-term deals, Rose is the player who the Spurs see as the least vital.

2) Tenure. With a disciplinarian as coach, a player who is longer tenured gets less leeway because the coach must show to be even handed. That is why Pop blasted Sean Elliott repeatedly when he became coach, because everyone knew they were best friends off the court. That is why eventually, Pop had to get rid of AJ. Being a disciplinarian only works if everyone feels they are getting treated equally, and that becomes more difficult to do when a player has been around a long time.

3) Size. David Robinson's size and athletic ability used to cover up for Malik's lack of height. Now that David's moved on to more important things, Malik not being a seven-footer is more noticeable ... especially when you have a small forward masquerading around as a power forward in Robert Horry as the team's other backup bigman.

4) Emotion. When the starting lineup didn't have a pulse (think Robinson, Duncan, Ferry, SSmith, Porter), Rose's emotion off the bench was looked upon as a good asset. Now with emotional players like Parker and Ginobili in the starting lineup, the Spurs think they need a calming influence off the bench.

Those are the four main reasons why Malik Rose will one day get traded.

Personally, I think all four are pretty much BS reasons. Rose has a fair contract and can put up the numbers if given the time.

[SPARKY]

I think with Rasho as your starting center you have to think about having good bigman depth. Moving Rose before you know what Scola can do in the NBA is not a good idea.

[BigVee]

timvp,

Thanks. I agree those are not very good reasons to move a good player. And, I consider him to be a good player, with a fair contract in today's market. My thinking is that you move him if you can get someone who can add more value than Malik, and I suppose that is a matter of personal opinion.

[ChumpDumper]

Play him or trade him.

[ShoogarBear]

I don't buy your reason #2, timvp.

Taking that to the extreme (and assuming that TD is exempt from any such rule), then Pop will have to trade Rasho (hmmm), Manu, and Tony in five years.

[Gummi]

Kevin Garnett once said that he thought Cliff Robinson was the best low post defender in the league. I've also read that several players have said it to.

[sickdsm]

I don't remember him saying that but i do know he's always said that Cliff Robinson is HIS toughest defender. KG has a harder time against the long, lankier guys like Cliff and Rasheed.

I think Cliff is getting a bad rap here. Any team with the chance to pick him up should jump to it.

[SequSpur]

timvp,

Did you watch the game last night? Malik didn't get any crunch time rebounds. That is what a big man is for. Yeah, throughout the game, he put up consistent stats, but when it mattered, he turned the ball over, got dunked on, made a stupid foul, the lead was lost and game was over.

Malik offers nothing to the Spurs. He actually increases the Spurs weakness in the post.

Malik is not an asset. He is a burden both contractually and on the court.

Late.

[SPARKY]

Moving Rose for a has been like CRobinson makes no sense from a basketball perspective, so it's not worth the time trying to sell it that way. Here's a real concern, you move Rose, are unable to sign Malone, and then your frontcourt depth is 34 year old Horry, 38 year old CRobinson, and 37 year old Mass, with Horry and CRobinson guys whose respective games rely far more on finesse and athleticism than pure muscle.

Personally I think it is worth it for the Spurs to pay the price for having real frontcourt depth long term. The better depth you have the more opportunities for rest for TD there will be. I think having a deep rotation can help to make him much more effective. Look at this season, the Spurs have been routinely dipping into their full frontcourt rotation, Duncan's minutes are down, and yet the Spurs have the best record at this point they've ever had. Also, when Duncan is out due to foul trouble you aren't as screwed as you would normally be.

Plus if you stop trying to move Malik solely because of his contract then you end the primary source of stress between Pop and Rose.

[SPARKY]

timvp,

Did you watch the game last night? Malik didn't get any crunch time rebounds. That is what a big man is for. Yeah, throughout the game, he put up consistent stats, but when it mattered, he turned the ball over, got dunked on, made a stupid foul, the lead was lost and game was over.

Malik offers nothing to the Spurs. He actually increases the Spurs weakness in the post.

Malik is not an asset. He is a burden both contractually and on the court.

Late.


Much like you are a burden in this forum.

[2centsworth]

timvp,

Did you watch the game last night? Malik didn't get any crunch time rebounds. That is what a big man is for. Yeah, throughout the game, he put up consistent stats, but when it mattered, he turned the ball over, got dunked on, made a stupid foul, the lead was lost and game was over.

Malik offers nothing to the Spurs. He actually increases the Spurs weakness in the post.

Malik is not an asset. He is a burden both contractually and on the court.

Late.


You're Right!

[SequSpur]

Much like you are a burden in this forum.

Blow me.

Cliff Robinson sucks. No way does Pop make this trade, Marc Stein is full of shit.

[SPARKY]

But you just argued that Malik's contract is a "burden"...

[TwoHandJam]

Problems with Malik:

1) His contract. The Spurs need to get rid of some money and have promised Holt that they'd do so. Out of the people who are locked in long-term deals, Rose is the player who the Spurs see as the least vital.

2) Tenure. With a disciplinarian as coach, a player who is longer tenured gets less leeway because the coach must show to be even handed. That is why Pop blasted Sean Elliott repeatedly when he became coach, because everyone knew they were best friends off the court. That is why eventually, Pop had to get rid of AJ. Being a disciplinarian only works if everyone feels they are getting treated equally, and that becomes more difficult to do when a player has been around a long time.

3) Size. David Robinson's size and athletic ability used to cover up for Malik's lack of height. Now that David's moved on to more important things, Malik not being a seven-footer is more noticeable ... especially when you have a small forward masquerading around as a power forward in Robert Horry as the team's other backup bigman.

4) Emotion. When the starting lineup didn't have a pulse (think Robinson, Duncan, Ferry, SSmith, Porter), Rose's emotion off the bench was looked upon as a good asset. Now with emotional players like Parker and Ginobili in the starting lineup, the Spurs think they need a calming influence off the bench.

Those are the four main reasons why Malik Rose will one day get traded.

Personally, I think all four are pretty much BS reasons. Rose has a fair contract and can put up the numbers if given the time.
I agree with #1 and #3 but not the other reasons. I think Malik and Pop are at odds alot for two other reasons:

1) As Malik spent more and more years with the team eventually landing a big contract, he felt he needed to contribute more to the offense. Malik is a hard worker but he is not talented. He works hard to improve his game but he tries too hard to be a mini-Tim in the post now. He often puts up ill-advised shots when going to the rim and gets stuffed more than any other Spur.

This drives Pop insane and rightly so. Malik strives to be more than just a role player but does not have the talent. Unfortunately, he hasn't accepted his role player status since his new contract and a role player is what we really need him to be.

2) Malik is definitely not clutch and is naturally turnover prone. Again, from a vet player, this drives Pop mad. Malik is headstrong and has barked back at Pop before. Pop and Malik are just not very compatible.

[ShoogarBear]

What the hell would we actually do with Uncle Cliffie?

I admit I haven't seen a lot of him this year, but unless something's changed his job description/capabilities are EXACTLY THE SAME as Robert Horry's.

He's not going to guard the bangers in the paint. And I can't believe that he's quicker than Horry. So defensively it's a wash at best. Maybe still advantage Rob.

He may be a bit more offensively-minded than Horry in stretches, but do we want that? And as for clutch shooting, well, Horry's worst playoff year is still probably better than Robinson's best.

And his 5.1 rebounds/48 min make Horry (8.8/48 min) look like the second coming of Rodman.

[SPARKY]

The funny thing is, I've also seen Malik put the ball on the floor and make strong moves to the rim resulting in a score, trip to the line for 2, or an and1. You know I'd hate to see the Spurs have a bigman who refuses to go to the rim for fear of getting rejected or being forced into a less than optimal shot.

Oh wait, they already have that guy. Fodder for another thread I suppose.

I haven't really seen any evidence of Malik trying to be a star this season. Save for the one unfortunate play against Sacto Malik's been solid this season. Again.

If you think Malik feels pressure because of the size of his contract, sure, I agree with you. But "why?" is the question. Well it might be due to the fact that the size of that contract has been hung around his neck from day 1 in San Antonio de Bexar, from both within and without the organization. Sure, Malik has an ego. What player at this level doesn't? Even DRob had an ego.

The Spurs have been trying to move him almost from the day they signed him to that deal. Now think about a player, someone who wants to win and actually gives a damn about performing. He takes pride in his play. Now he's told that he's paid too much though he works his ass off. He's told that the team wants to get rid of him for damn near 2 years straight. Don't you think that would grate on a player and make him a little surly?

If Malik Rose is the worst malcontent the Spurs have on this team I'd hate to see the Spurs bring in a true one. Maybe that's why the Spurs are adding more and more international players who seem to have the nice quality of being subervient unquestioning little robots. Must be a control freak's paradise.

[SPARKY]

What the hell would we actually do with Uncle Cliffie?

I admit I haven't seen a lot of him this year, but unless something's changed his job description/capabilities are EXACTLY THE SAME as Robert Horry's.

He's not going to guard the bangers in the paint. And I can't believe that he's quicker than Horry. So defensively it's a wash at best. Maybe still advantage Rob.

He may be a bit more offensively-minded than Horry in stretches, but do we want that? And as for clutch shooting, well, Horry's worst playoff year is still probably better than Robinson's best.

And his 5.1 rebounds/48 min make Horry (8.8/48 min) look like the second coming of Rodman.

Amen. Other than his contract he brings nothing Horry doesn't already provide in a superior manner.

[T Park]

Even DRob had an ego.



Yeah it was huge....

Always heard david sayin,

"Admiral needs a point guard. If I was John Stockton, Id be told I was a great team leader railing against cheap ownership. But since Im Admiral, im considered selfish!!"

[SPARKY]

Remember DRob threatening to sign with the Knicks?

[T Park]

yeah. Like he would've done that.

I can see David playing in New York.

He wasn't goin anywhere.

[SPARKY]

Well he displayed an ego. Also of note was that Pop/RC/Holt were ready to run him off. Now if the Spurs were willing to run off no less than David Robinson, the elder statesman of the San Antonio Spurs, because of financial reasons why would they not be capable of doing the same for a Malik Rose?

Some of us here have been pointing this out for some time now and yet some of you still refuse to see the writing on the wall. It's always been about the contract. Rose could've been a good little robot like all the foreign guys and the Spurs would still have been shopping him around the league continuously for the last two years.

[T Park]

good little robot like all the foreign guys


Yeah them damn foreigners are the problem.


So if they arent black and they arent american they stink right.


So the team locks up its starting point guard, shooting guard for the long term, but wants to get rid of a bench player to clear payroll thats a bad thing.

Right right. How dare they.

[whottt]

If the Spurs were totally consumed with the bottom dollar they'd be trying to move Rasho first...Rasho's skills are a bit rarer and harder to replace than Malik's though...

So my guess is that they are trying to move Malik first because they have players with a similar skill set coming in...Malone this season, and Scola will be here after that.

[SPARKY]

Actually they've been trying to move both Rasho and Rose.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Damn this thread is a long read.

I know everyone is expecting me to show up on this one, so here I am. :lol

My thoughts on this are:

* Phoenix and Miami, probably two of our three biggest competitors (Seattle being the third) have made recent moves to shore up their squads, and obviously our braintrust is not comfortable with where we're at on this.

* The length of Malik's contract is the true problem there, not what he's getting paid. And when you put yourself in team management's shoes, they're not getting a good return on their investment for Rose.

* We've come to expect RC and Pop to be great talent evaluators. Everyone in this thread is talking about Scola being some kind of Horry replacement. I would argue, and so would RC/Pop, that Scola is their Rose replacement.

Rose is hot and cold. That's not going to change. He always has been. LJ hit it on the head that with DRob (and Sean) around to clean up the defensive mess, Rose's mistakes were a lot less noticeable.

We've already seen Luis hang with NBAers on the world stage now (NBA Dream Team in particular) twice, and he's 2-0. Luis has always been talked about as a garbage player, he's just longer than Rose (we're talking 6'10" vs. 6'3").

The other thing that seems lost on folks is the game has changed since Rose was doing his thing. We don't need him to score for one, which for some reason he thinks he needs to do like Tim. But we've already got that from our wings and Tim.

And the other thing, at least is Pop's eye, is what it's always going to come down to for him: defense. Rose used to do an awesome job banging with the big posts like Shaq down low.

Those days are gone, and you need more length on the court. Obviously Pop and RC don't feel they've got enough of it in Rose.

Let's face it, there's a lot we know about Malik's situation, and some behind closed doors that the majority of us don't.

I'm not sure I like the idea of Cliffy in the post-season. But for all my criticism of the staff for their coaching in certain situations, I have to give them credit for their talent evaluation skills, they are second to none on that. And from all appearances it looks like they have Luis pegged as the Rose replacement.

And FWIW, I think we've got our Horry replacement sitting on the IL right now (Linton).

[T Park]

Why not kill two birds with one stone.

Trade em both and fuck the season up.

I mean, I can see why youd want to shake some things up.

39-11 is deplorable.

[SPARKY]

Yeah them damn foreigners are the problem.


So if they arent black and they arent american they stink right.


One has to take a look at the decidedly non-American content of the Spurs' roster, think about Pop's personality, and wonder...

(Notice I originally wrote "foreign" TPark).

[T Park]

Can't argue with too much of that Aggie. Good post.

[T Park]

Whats wrong with foreigners?

There not "Hip" enough? Not "pimp" enough??


Such BS.


Scola might be great, we don't know. But if hes half as good as people are saying he is, hes gonna be twice what Rose is.

He doesnt have the TOTAL speed Rose does, but his length, toughness, and that nice jumper are great additions.

[SPARKY]

So we're back to Rose costing $6 mil a season and Scola half that. But what if Scola in the paint is half the player that Rose is? You just depleted your frontcourt rotation for no other reason than to put more money in Holt Cat et al's pocket. Fuck that.

Hot. Cold. Whatever. Malik plays aggressive inside unlike another certain Spur big. I don't mind players who make mistakes when compared to players who become ineffective for fear of committing one.

Let's not forget that those great talent evaluators gave Nesterovic that contract.

[T Park]

Let's not forget that those great talent evaluators gave Nesterovic that contract.

Yeah and to use your arguement for Rose, its considered a good deal.

Minnesota offered more.


Rasho is soft, rasho sucks, you hate Rasho.

Can you post ANYTHING other than that????


Oh wait, Rose makes mistakes BUT ITS OK!!!

[SPARKY]

Whats wrong with foreigners?

There not "Hip" enough? Not "pimp" enough??


No, but they might not defer like little girls to Pop all the fucking time. You know Pop's gotta love that shit.




Such BS.


Scola might be great, we don't know. But if hes half as good as people are saying he is, hes gonna be twice what Rose is.

He doesnt have the TOTAL speed Rose does, but his length, toughness, and that nice jumper are great additions.

All that is offered is his performance in a few competitions without the rules and overall rigor of a NBA season.

Zarko Paspaji lit up Dream Team II for 30 or so points in the 1996 Gold Medal game. BFD.

[SPARKY]

Yeah and to use your arguement for Rose, its considered a good deal.

Minnesota offered more.


Rasho is soft, rasho sucks, you hate Rasho.

Can you post ANYTHING other than that????


Oh wait, Rose makes mistakes BUT ITS OK!!!


At least I post something coherent and legible.

[T Park]

they might not defer like little girls to Pop all the fucking time

So you are advocating FIGHTING the coach??

Thats brilliant.

Of course, IGNORE the coach.

THATS WHAT PUT ROSE IN THE DOGHOUSE TO BEGIN WITH!!!!


Let me ask you something, why, last year, did you say Pop is a great coach, now he sucks.


Classic classic wishy washyness from Cryant because his bitch fights with the coach.

[SPARKY]

I'd also like to add that Malik Rose's alleged insubordination is nothing in NBA terms. If Pop can't handle that he's got the ego and thin skin we'd expect from a control freak. Seriously. All we hear is that Malik snapped back at him one day in practice and suddenly Malik is a death row inmate in this forum.

[T Park]

At least I post something coherent and legible

Whats next, "I know you are but what am I?"

Or, "Sticks and stones will break my bones"


Christ.

[SPARKY]

TPark, what if, just maybe, the coach is wrong about something? You know, if Pop didn't have a David Robinson or Tim Duncan to coach where would he be?

Let's also not forget that he was 1-3 versus Phil Jackson in the postseason.

Pop's not infallible.

[T Park]

All we hear is that Malik snapped back at him one day in practice


Or course, there couldn't be more shit that has been kept behind closed doors right???


Hes the coach. You fuckin listen to him. If your in charge of the team, you dont let any of your players backtalk you or give you shit.

You let one player run over you, you loose control of the team.


Amazing, how many NON foreign players have come away from the team saying how great a coach pop is.

Of course, hes horrible cause, sniff, he yells at players...... boooo hoo.

[T Park]

Wrong about what???

Benching malik for playing stupid and covering his head with a jersey??

Ok Lenny Wilkens go ahead and let that slide see what happens.

[SPARKY]

He didn't put his jersey over his head in the prior seasons.

Man fuck it, he made one bonehead play. When Manu does that he's "exciting"....

[T Park]

Let's also not forget that he was 1-3 versus Phil Jackson in the postseason.

Pop's not infallible

Yeah if only we had Brian Hill.

He was a totally fantastic coach that, oops, got run out by his players.

I mean Brian Hill was 1-0 Vs Phil, so hes gotta be MUCH smarter right?

Pat Riley. Go get him out of retirement.

Cause what pop is doin now?? Is a total train wreck.

[T Park]

Comparing Manu to Malik now.


Of course, Manu is a foreigner, so hes evil.

[SPARKY]

Give Pat Riley a David Robinson and a Tim Duncan and he'd still be in business.

[SPARKY]

Comparing Manu to Malik now.


Of course, Manu is a foreigner, so hes evil.


No but it's a reaction I've seen among Spurs fans, including some in this forum.

[T Park]

He didn't put his jersey over his head in the prior seasons.


True, hes also only purposely sabotaged his play (His words Lik junior)

Hes also walked from timeouts and pouted.

Yelled back coming off the court after being told instructions.

Great team guy.

[T Park]

Give Pat Riley a David Robinson and a Tim Duncan and he'd still be in business

Pat Riley couldnt coach Ewing to a ring.

So what.


Well lets fire pop cause, "He yells at his players"

What bullshit.

[SPARKY]

True, hes also only purposely sabotaged his play (His words Lik junior)

Hes also walked from timeouts and pouted.

Yelled back coming off the court after being told instructions.

Great team guy.

Wrong. He never said he "sabotaged" any play on the court. He did say that he got into it with Pop on a personal level off the court because he was tired of the bullshit.

[SPARKY]

Pat Riley couldnt coach Ewing to a ring.

So what.


Well lets fire pop cause, "He yells at his players"

What bullshit.

Fuck, give Pop an aging Ewing to coach and what could he do? Pop had two of the top 10 (top 5 for the 1st few seasons) bigmen in the NBA to coach for 6 seasons.

[T Park]

He never said he "sabotaged"

Bring back up the article earlier in the year genius. He purposely did shit to bench himself

PURPOSELY.

Thats BS.

Bullshit?? What Bullshit, wanting him to play smarter?

Wanting him to stop getting his shots blocked everyone second.

God this is inane.

[T Park]

So what.

That makes him a bad coach cause hes coached talent??

Guess Phil Jackson aint much then right.

[SPARKY]

He said he got into it with Pop on a personal level. He never said he sabotaged any play. That was something you, ducks and the other illiterates came up with.

[SPARKY]

So what.

That makes him a bad coach cause hes coached talent??

Guess Phil Jackson aint much then right.


Phil Jackson has a ring for every finger save one.

[T Park]

He said he got into it with Pop on a personal level. He never said he sabotaged any play. That was something you, ducks and the other illiterates came up with.

Your other circle jerk buddy johnny Ludden made it up too bucko.

It was in the paper.

Either him or Buck Harvey wrote an article on Malik and his turnaround in attitude from the year before and Malik said he "Purposely" did stuff last year to get himself benched.

Go look it up Brewski if you dont believe me.

[T Park]

Phil Jackson has a ring for every finger save one.

Give pop Phil's teams and I bet he has similar results.

But what the hell do Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith and other pundits who say Pop is underrated as a coach know right??

I mean, he benchs your girlfriend and he sucks. Of course.

Bring back John Lucas.

[SPARKY]

Your other circle jerk buddy johnny Ludden made it up too bucko.

It was in the paper.

Either him or Buck Harvey wrote an article on Malik and his turnaround in attitude from the year before and Malik said he "Purposely" did stuff last year to get himself benched.

Go look it up Brewski if you dont believe me.


Incorrect.


ASk

KORI.

PS...dont'T ever ciTe brewSKI if you expect to win an argument.

[T Park]

ASk

KORI

Ok Dizzy.

[Kori Ellis]

It wasn't in an article. Malik said in the beginning of this season in a tv interview on WOAI that he took some of the responsibility for his strained relationship with Pop last season because Malik did some stuff to Pop to get under his skin. He didn't do anything on the court to sabotage the team. He was talking about just his personal relationship with Pop.

[Kori Ellis]

Here's the link. The interview was before preseason.

http://www.woai.com/spurs/story.aspx?content_id=CE1C1F8F-3C76-4CB9-B99A-FFB01AFF2D75

[T Park]

pardon me TV, not paper.

BUT STILL!! The same as I was saying.

I didnt say sabotage the TEAM, I mean purposely do things to put himself further down the bench.


Gracias me bonita amiga.

[mattyc]

The trade would wanna include Cliff Robinson and a time machine. :shootme