Spot Number 32 - Top 50 Spurs

[timvp]

SpursTalk's Top 50 Spurs
1. Tim Duncan
2. David Robinson
3. George Gervin
4. Gregg Popovich
5. Angelo Drossos
6. Manu Ginobili
7. Tony Parker
8. Sean Elliott
9. James Silas
10. Bruce Bowen
11. Larry Kenon
12. Avery Johnson
13. Alvin Robertson
14. Johnny Moore
15. RC Buford
16. Artis Gilmore
17. Peter Holt
18. Mike Mitchell
19. Bob Bass
20. Malik Rose
21. Robert Horry
22. Red McCombs
23. Doug Moe
24. Terry Cummings
25. Mario Elie
26. Willie Anderson
27. Billy Paultz
28. Robert McDermott
29. Stephen Jackson
30. Mark Olberding
31. Stan Albeck

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To pass the time until the start of preseason, let's see how SpursTalk.com ranks the Top 50 Spurs. Those eligible for the list include all players, coaches and owners. I don't want to define "top" too narrowly, but I think the best way to do it would be to think of the list as a list of the 50 most influential people who have helped make the Spurs one of the most successful franchises in the history of sport.

For more information on what we are doing, check out this thread (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103061).

In this thread, we will vote for spot number 32. Please place your vote. If you will, also explain in this thread why you voted how you did.

Thanks.



P.S.

Poll options listed in alphabetical order. If you want to vote for someone not on the list, post in the thread and I'll add the person.

Voting will end 2AM CST Wednesday morning.

Please vote only once.

[timvp]

This is a difficult spot. I'm not sure who I'm going to go with.

I'd say Dennis Rodman and Vinny Del Negro are pretty worthy ... but it's hard to look past how those two killed the '95 team. Rodman had good stats while in SA but he was equally destructive. Del Negro had a pretty good legacy but he was the weak link for so long and one of the reasons those mid-90's Spurs never won a championship.

This might not be popular but Jaren Jackson might have to be discussed. Yeah, he got fat and lazy after the '99 championship but during that 1999 season, he was huge. If we are going to go with one-hit wonders like Mario Elie and Stephen Jackson, Jaren Jackson shouldn't be too much further down the list.

If that '99 team didn't have Jackson's outside shooting, it would have been much harder to win the championship. He single-handedly spaced the court for Robinson and Duncan and hit a countless number of big shots throughout that playoff run. Those were the best games he ever played and he never got near that level again, but it can't be denied that the timing was perfect. Oh and don't forget his defense which was also very good during that playoff run.

Other names that stand out to me are Swen Nater for being a two-time All-Star in the ABA for the Spurs, Brent Barry for his contributions to two championship teams and Larry Brown for his job coaching the early DRob teams and for introducing San Antonio to Pop.

I'll have to think about it though and I'm probably missing a person or two who should be considered.

[SlovenianGuy]

Do the votes for both Vinny del Negros sum up?

And please add Cadillac Anderson to the list. In his first two seasons with the Spurs he averaged 12.7 Points and 7.3 rebounds per game. He was better than many of the players on the top list.


The 32nd place should be reserved for Mike Budenholzer.

[timvp]

Do the votes for both Vinny del Negros sum up?Fixed. Thanks.


And please add Cadillac Anderson to the list. In his first two seasons with the Spurs he averaged 12.7 Points and 7.3 rebounds per game. He was better than many of the players on the top list.Greg Anderson = Greg "Cadillac" Anderson :)

[SlovenianGuy]

Fixed. Thanks.

Greg Anderson = Greg "Cadillac" Anderson :)

Thanks, I must have missed it.

[urunobili]

Budenholzer has been on the bench with Pop on all 4 championship rings campaigns... He knows the system like no one else does and knows what Pop is trying to accomplish without even asking or needing to double check, basketball wise and when building relationships with the players as well.

I still don't get why people do not consider him on a higher status since his contributions have always been solid, he has always been close the players, to the ones developing and the veterans as well.

His leadership could be seen on display this past summer league when he was on Mahimni's face after the got outplayed by other guys etc.

He should be the next one. Lame he didn't break the Top 25

[manufor3]

mango!

[Kona]

Budenholzer.

[ducks]

lol at stephen jackson being so high

[2centsworth]

brent, kerr, and then banks.

[urunobili]

Barry> Budenholzer? wow... can someone explain me how his contribution is bigger than Bud's?

[baseline bum]

Strickland

[timvp]

Budenholzer has been on the bench with Pop on all 4 championship rings campaigns... He knows the system like no one else does and knows what Pop is trying to accomplish without even asking or needing to double check, basketball wise and when building relationships with the players as well.

I still don't get why people do not consider him on a higher status since his contributions have always been solid, he has always been close the players, to the ones developing and the veterans as well.

His leadership could be seen on display this past summer league when he was on Mahimni's face after the got outplayed by other guys etc.

He should be the next one. Lame he didn't break the Top 25:lol @ Mike Bud in the top 25.

True, he's been an assistant coach all four championships. He also deserves credit for predicting the final play of the '99 championship, which allowed the Spurs to get the stop. IIRC, Bud came to the Spurs the same year Pop did and started out as the video coordinator.

But he's a borderline candidate. He's never been the lead assistant during a championship run. Hank Egan was the lead assistant in 1999. PJ Carlesimo was the lead assistant in 2003, 2005 and 2007. In fact, Mike Bud's first season being lead assistant was last season. He's only gotten one real head coaching job interview that I can remember -- this last summer with the Suns.

He's been pretty important because he'd been Pop's right hand man for a while now. If he doesn't get hired away, he'll probably end up being the next coach of the Spurs. I'm just not sure where he fits on this list.

I'm not even sure he should go ahead of Egan. Egan is the man who invented the Spurs defensive system. And since defense has won the Spurs all four championships, Egan very well could be considered a better choice than Bud.

[2centsworth]

Barry> Budenholzer? wow... can someone explain me how his contribution is bigger than Bud's?


players are more valuable than management with all other things being equal. Bud was been 3rd in command for a long time, whoopie.

[timvp]

brent, kerr, and then banks.I see about 10 or 12 people I'd put on the list before Kerr. I know we've put people on the list for one good season ... but to put Kerr on for one or two good games? I won't be able to vote for him for a while.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I don't understand all the love for Budenholzer. He's a good coach, not taking that away from him, but he wasn't even the lead assistant until PJ left last year. I wouldn't put a coach who was 2nd/3rd assistant for most of his Spurs career in the 30s. His time will come, but I wouldn't pick him until around 40.

[The Truth #6]

I think this pick should go to Presti. His additions to the franchise are greater than Coach Bud, who basically is a good soldier but not someone who has done more than fill a role admirably. Presti's talent couldn't be denied as he rose through the ranks steadily and now is doing an amazing job drafting and making trades for Seattle/OKC.

If we were to go with a player I would say Rodman, Strickland, Gene Banks, Swen Nater should be considered next. Then after them would be Barry. I need to go back and confirm The Flying Helicopter's stats but he may be close as well. The same for Dietrich.

Once we get in the 40s it's going to be purely emotional fan favorites in my opinion, which is why i'm already voting for Ed Nealy at #50 yet his name still hasn't been added to the list.

[baseline bum]

Dale Ellis and Strickland should be our next two players, although I can see the argument for JJ with the way he got hot in the LA and NY series in 99. There is no way in hell Brent Barry deserves to be over either of these two, although I'd take him over JJ. Del Negro doesn't deserve to be on this list period. Neither does Rodman.

[The Truth #6]

Yeah, I forgot about Dale Ellis. He was fairly immobile when we got him but he shot amazingly well. Rodman, Strickland, Jaren Jackson, Ellis could be next in my opinion, though I think we should dig around the late 70s/early 80s a bit more to make sure we aren't forgetting someone, like Swen Nater. But we are getting closer to Barry. Still, it is laughable that this whole process has become a referendum on Barry and Bud.

[timvp]

Meh, I think I'm going to go with Barry. First of all, I think he's more deserving than Bud. And while he definitely has his shortcomings as a player and as a prospect on this list, I'll give him props for:

1) Dealing with Pop never liking him. Pop played Devin Brown over him until Devin got hurt. Pop tried to trade him multiple times. Pop went out and personally got Michael Finley to replace him. But through all that, Barry remained professional and did his job whenever asked.

2) Hitting huge shots in the Phoenix series in 2005. He also came up big in Game 2 against the Nuggets when he was inserted into the starting lineup. Then in the Pistons series, Barry played some point guard when Beno went into the fetal position.

3) Playing decently well in the 2007 playoffs. He had a difficult role that saw him play sparingly but he didn't really ever hurt the Spurs.

4) Showing up in the Lakers series last year. He played his best series of his Spurs life with the Spurs needing extra production from somebody. Without Barry, the Spurs probably get humiliated.

5) Re-signing with the Spurs after they traded him away. He could have easily gone somewhere else but he was loyal to his teammates.

6) Being one of the leaders on the team over his four-year career. He oftentimes was in charge of huddles and was one of the main players who'd go the extra mile to help out a struggling player.

I know it's three or four spots too high but it's not a horrible choice. I don't see anyone who is substantially more deserving. I like him here much more than Vinny Del Negro, Dennis Rodman or Steve Kerr.

[The Reckoning]

danny ferry all the way

[Admiral]

P.J. Carlesimo gets my vote. He has been Pop's top assistant for a while now. As timvp mentioned, Carlesimo has played an integral role as the lead assistant for our last three titles. That can't be ignored when you consider his importance to the day-to-day operations of the team.

[urunobili]

Can someone explain to me how Barry's contributions are more important for the establishment of the Spurs Basketball program than the only assistant coach we had for our FOUR championship runs?

[timvp]

Can someone explain to me how Barry's contributions are more important for the establishment of the Spurs Basketball program than the only assistant coach we had for our FOUR championship runs?Read the thread. Will Sevening has been around for all four championships, too. In fact, his first year with the Spurs was in '99. Perhaps he is the reason behind all this success . . .

[baseline bum]

If I was going to vote for an assistant coach it would have to be Paul Pressey for the way he was able to hold Pop back from killing the ref for years.

[urunobili]

Read the thread. Will Sevening has been around for all four championships, too. In fact, his first year with the Spurs was in '99. Perhaps he is the reason behind all this success . . .

it's a 13 to 13 tie... i posted that trying to get the final notch...

i like how you expose Barry's contribution but trying to put a mask on Bud because he had his first year as lead assistant last year it's unfair.... he was there contributing on the four runs... you have just educated me about Egan... will vote him next and plead a case for him after i do homework :tu

[FromWayDowntown]

The argument that Budenholzer is this significant to history of the franchise seems very much like the argument that goes Parker or Manu or Bowen > Gervin.

Only it seems even more asinine.

[baseline bum]

The argument that Budenholzer is this significant to history of the franchise seems very much like the argument that goes Parker or Manu or Bowen > Gervin.

Only it seems even more asinine.

I don't know; it's pretty tough to get more asinine than Manu>Ice.

[Rynospursfan]

Coach Bud isn''t even the most important coach left off the list at this point, that would be Larry Brown. Sure you can give a lot of the credit to Big Dave and Sean Elliott for turning this franchise around but Larry Brown was instrumental as well.

My vote is going to Bones with Dale Ellis being a very close second.

[2centsworth]

I see about 10 or 12 people I'd put on the list before Kerr. I know we've put people on the list for one good season ... but to put Kerr on for one or two good games? I won't be able to vote for him for a while.

I would vote for him for how he has represented the organization. For his playing ability, he had one good playoff run.

[mathbzh]

I can't chose between players. So, I vote for Chip Engelland... he did a great work.

[FromWayDowntown]

I would vote for him for how he has represented the organization. For his playing ability, he had one good playoff run.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Kerr and Pop have had more than a few scrapes in the past few years stemming from Kerr taking some shots at the Spurs.

[Admiral]

Coach Bud isn''t even the most important coach left off the list at this point, that would be Larry Brown. Sure you can give a lot of the credit to Big Dave and Sean Elliott for turning this franchise around but Larry Brown was instrumental as well.

My vote is going to Bones with Dale Ellis being a very close second.

How is Brent Barry more important to the franchise than key coaches during our multiple titles? I just don't see it.

[FromWayDowntown]

How is Brent Barry more important to the franchise than key coaches during our multiple titles? I just don't see it.

Why isn't Coach Bud more important than George Gervin?

He's got him 4 rings to none, after all.

[Admiral]

Why isn't Coach Bud more important than George Gervin?

He's got him 4 rings to none, after all.

Because George Gervin is a hall-of-famer and the third best player in our franchise's history. Brent Barry averages 7 ppg and rarely starts for us. Big difference there between one of the all-time greats and a role player off the bench. I like Barry, but come on.

I would vote for a regular starter who had consistent and productive seasons for us (Mike Gale, Rod Strickland, and even Vinny Del Negro) before I would vote for Brent Barry. But maybe that's just me.