Will Kobe stay in LA to try for 6 rings or will he bolt in 2009 for $50 million?

[Allanon]

I know, it's early and I didn't really care much about the article as it's way too soon. But hell, everybody's already talking about the 2010 LeBron, Wade, Bosh sweepstakes.

But some points caught my eye.


He could get a humongous contract to the tune of $150 million over 6 years (he'd be 36 at the end of the contract).

At $150 million, that's $25 million per season. Some of the rich billionaire owners in Europe could double that and conceivably pony up $50 million per year. I wouldn't be surprised if FIBA subsidizes some of that under the table just to make the coup happen.

Kobe, more than anybody wants a legacy, even if he's offered $50 million per season in Europe, I don't think he'd think twice about staying in LA to chase MJ's 6 rings (he only needs 3 more to tie).




Kobe a long shot to leave Lakers
by Chris Mannix
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/chris_mannix/09/19/kobe/index.html?eref=T1

Before the anticipated 2010 free-agent bonanza that could include LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Amaré Stoudemire and Chris Bosh, there could be one free agent on the market who, if he chooses to switch teams, would significantly shift the balance of power.

I'm talking about Kobe Bryant.

It seems like only yesterday that Bryant had the city of Los Angeles holding its collective breath while he debated his future. In July 2004, Bryant was the subject of daily speculation as he kept the Lakers waiting while flirting with the Bulls, Nuggets, Knicks and (gulp) crosstown Clippers as a free agent.

In the end, Bryant elected to remain a Laker, a decision that initially looked dubious -- with the lottery season in 2005, the back-to-back first-round exits in '06 and '07 and the will-he-or-won't-he-be-traded saga last offseason -- but now has paid major dividends, as the Lakers are the defending conference champions and a favorite to win the NBA title.

But as Los Angeles prepares to begin a training camp that will be filled with more love than Woodstock (Kobe will praise Andrew Bynum, Bynum will praise Pau Gasol and Phil Jackson will praise everybody), there will be a rather large elephant lurking in the room: After the season, the 30-year-old Bryant can opt out of the final two years of his contract (worth $47.8 million) and become a free agent.

"He's going to opt out," an Eastern Conference general manager said. "He's going to want to see what the market is. He's going to want to flex his muscles."

Even if Kobe does opt out, however, very few executives believe that he would leave the Lakers, who would be able to offer him a six-year deal worth about $150 million.

"He will definitely re-sign," an East personnel executive said. "This isn't five years ago. He's the unquestioned leader of an elite team and he's playing in a city that loves him."

If Bryant were determined to sign elsewhere, he would face a limited market. Based on a projected 2009-2010 salary cap of $61-62 million, and the potential renouncing of certain players, only a handful of teams will have the cap space to make Bryant a realistic offer (in addition to the overseas option):

• Oklahoma City: No chance. The Thunder could have $25 million in cap space next year, but they have a young roster and are primed for rebuilding. It's hard to see Bryant's leaving a contender in Los Angeles for a team in transition in a much smaller market.

• Portland: Intriguing but doubtful. To be sure, adding Bryant to an up-and-coming team built around Greg Oden, LaMarcus Aldridge and Brandon Roy is exciting to consider. But the Trail Blazers have made a commitment to Roy, the 2007 Rookie of the Year, at shooting guard, and though they could conceivably shift him to either point guard or small forward, it's not something they are eager to do.

Moreover, a sizable chunk of the Blazers' cap space depends on the future of Darius Miles, who signed with Boston last month after missing the last two seasons with a knee injury. If Miles plays 10 games with the Celtics this season, his $9 million salary -- which the Blazers cut from the books after getting a rare career-ending injury exception for Miles -- will count against Portland's salary cap. Though the Blazers could have some $15 million in cap space even with Miles, it might not be enough to entice Bryant.

• Memphis: See Oklahoma City. While the Grizzlies have the potential for about $20 million in cap space, Bryant isn't about to leave L.A. for a chance to tutor O.J. Mayo and Co.

• Europe: The summer buzz centered on the tantalizing possibility that a first-tier NBA star like Bryant could be lured to Europe by a $50 million annual salary. "Fifty million is a little ridiculous," the East general manager said. "Thirty million is probably the limit. But if that's a $30 million net [after taxes] salary for one season, that's the same as a $60 million contract in the U.S."

While Bryant seems like the perfect candidate for a European excursion -- he lived in Italy for seven years as a youngster, speaks fluent Italian and has extraordinary worldwide appeal -- it's doubtful that he would seriously consider a move. More than any player in the NBA today, Bryant defines his career by championships (he has three). And if he remains with the Lakers, he has a legitimate shot to make a run at Michael Jordan's total of six rings.

[BlackSwordsMan]

I wont care about the NBA after 2011

[Trainwreck2100]

European white girls>Colorado White girls

[resistanze]

WTF @ "he only needs 3 rings to tie" MJ.

[baseline bum]

6? He's already disappointed twice in a row trying to get #4.

[JMarkJohns]

...(he only needs 3 more to tie).

There's a roughly a dozen top-50 overall players that can combine for zero.

Being great isn't enough.

To say he ONLY needs as many as he's already won, a total that's more than most great players anyways, is a bit absurd...

[baseline bum]

There's a roughly a dozen top-50 overall players that can combine for zero.

Being great isn't enough.

To say he ONLY needs as many as he's already won, a total that's more than most great players anyways, is a bit absurd...

He only needs to get another Shaquille O'Neal level player back in LA.

[JMarkJohns]

He only needs to get another Shaquille O'Neal level player back in LA.

As a fan of a franchise still searching for its first Title, I'm really put out at the thought of winning three Titles being mentioned in the same type as "only" ...

[Allanon]

He only needs to get another Shaquille O'Neal level player back in LA.

Bynum.

Beyond Kobe + Bynum, this Laker team is also alot more talented than the 3peat Lakers and young enough to contend for a ring until Kobe's contract runs out for a possible Kobe total of 9 rings.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves, I'd be happy with some dominance this year to start.

[resistanze]

Bynum.

Beyond Kobe + Bynum, this Laker team is also alot more talented than the 3peat Lakers and young enough to contend for a ring until Kobe's contract runs out for a possible Kobe total of 9 rings.
Now I know you were just phucking with us.

[JamStone]

If Kobe gets offered $50 million a year from a Euro team, he's leaving the NBA.

[JMarkJohns]

Bynum.

Beyond Kobe + Bynum, this Laker team is also alot more talented than the 3peat Lakers and young enough to contend for a ring until Kobe's contract runs out for a possible Kobe total of 9 rings.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves, I'd be happy with some dominance this year to start.


Kobe has been in the League for a dozen years now and has three. He'll probably only play a total of six more at a high level and a total of 8-to-10 more in the League, and you have some expectation of six in those eight/ten years?

Give me whatever you're smoking because it seems strong enough to get me past the sting of 0-for-40...

[monosylab1k]

Kobe needs 3 to tie Jordan's total, but he still needs 6 to equal Jordan's greatness.

None of Jordan's rings were won playing second fiddle.

[monosylab1k]

LMAO @ "it's possible for Kobe to win 9"

It's possible the Mavs go on a five-peat too. It's possible Matt Bonner wins league MVP next season. It's possible Amare will say something smart for once.

[Allanon]

Now I know you were just phucking with us.

Hahah. :downspin: I knew 9 would wake you up.



Kobe needs 3 to tie Jordan's total, but he still needs 6 to equal Jordan's greatness. None of Jordan's rings were won playing second fiddle.
Right now, you can't say Kobe & Jordan in the same sentence.

But if Kobe finishes with 6 or more rings, it all becomes debateable. Kobe knows that, that's why you couldn't pay him enough to leave the NBA.


Kobe has been in the League for a dozen years now and has three. He'll probably only play a total of six more at a high level and a total of 8-to-10 more in the League, and you have some expectation of six in those eight/ten years?
Jordan didn't win his first ring until he was 28. Kobe just turned 30 so truth is Kobe's still 1 ring ahead of Jordan at the same age and I doubt Kobe's going to take time off to play Baseball so Kobe gets another 2 years to get more rings.

Both guys had championship level teams when they hit their prime. Jordan basically won 6 rings in 8 years. Kobe would need to win 3 in 6 years, it sounds doable to me.

[Avitus1]

LMAO @ "it's possible for Kobe to win 9"

It's possible the Mavs go on a five-peat too. It's possible Matt Bonner wins league MVP next season. It's possible Amare will say something smart for once.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[JMarkJohns]

Jordan didn't win his first ring until he was 28. Kobe just turned 30 so truth is Kobe's still 1 ring ahead of Jordan at the same age.

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/Princess-bride-cary-elwes-dread-pirate-roberts.jpg
Truly you have a dizzying intellect!

[Allanon]

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/Princess-bride-cary-elwes-dread-pirate-roberts.jpg
Truly you have a dizzying intellect!

Why?

Jordan had 2 rings the day he turned 30 while Kobe has 3?

Jordan compressed his 6 rings into 8 years. Kobe needs 3 in 6 years. I'd say the odds of Kobe beating Jordan's ring count are pretty good.

[JMarkJohns]

You just assume to much based upon the fact that Jordan didn't win his first until 28.

And again, stop using "ONLY" when talking Titles. It's a fuckin' bitch move whether intended or not. If Kobe wins one more he'll be lucky.

[Allanon]

You just assume to much based upon the fact that Jordan didn't win his first until 28.
What's the difference? Is it not true? Kobe had more rings at the same age. Jordan didn't get his 4th ring until he was 33.



And again, stop using "ONLY" when talking Titles. It's a fuckin' bitch move whether intended or not. If Kobe wins one more he'll be lucky.
The Lakers were 3 wins away from another ring just this year. If Kobe had no support sure, but Kobe's team right now is better than the one Jordan had when he went on his 3peat.

Last year, nobody expected the Lakers to be in the Finals.

However, not winning a ring this year would be a major choke job by the Lakers.

[JamStone]

Why?

Jordan had 2 rings the day he turned 30 while Kobe has 3?

Jordan compressed his 6 rings into 8 years. Kobe needs 3 in 6 years. I'd say the odds of Kobe beating Jordan's ring count are pretty good.

Possible, sure.

Odds being pretty good, not by a long shot.

Jordan had 2 rings as the main go-to guy on the championship team the day he turned 30. Kobe has zero rings as the main go-to guy on a championship team.

Kobe can feasibly win three more titles. But, it's far from being a "pretty good" chance.

[Allanon]

Possible, sure.

Odds being pretty good, not by a long shot.

Jordan had 2 rings as the main go-to guy on the championship team the day he turned 30. Kobe has zero rings as the main go-to guy on a championship team.

Kobe can feasibly win three more titles. But, it's far from being a "pretty good" chance.

chances are "pretty good" for somebody named Kobe with the team he currently has. It's obviously not an easy task for most other players.

Hell, Duncan, LeBron, Wade, would likely win 3 rings out of 6 with the current Laker squad with Phil as the coach.

[monosylab1k]

You just assume to much based upon the fact that Jordan didn't win his first until 28.

And again, stop using "ONLY" when talking Titles. It's a fuckin' bitch move whether intended or not. If Kobe wins one more he'll be lucky.

That's what you get with douche ass Laker fans. They have that sickening sense of entitlement, and the distorted view that championships are easy to come by.

[BUMP]

What's the difference? Is it not true? Kobe had more rings at the same age. Jordan didn't get his 4th ring until he was 33.


The Lakers were 3 wins away from another ring just this year. If Kobe had no support sure, but Kobe's team right now is better than the one Jordan had when he went on his 3peat.

Last year, nobody expected the Lakers to be in the Finals.

However, not winning a ring this year would be a major choke job by the Lakers.

well actually two, and so were the Mavs in 05-06 look where they are now.

there's something called a target on their backs which is what they have now, and in a conference with potentially 8 or 9 50 win teams, making it back to the Finals doesnt seem so easy anymore.

[JMarkJohns]

chances are "pretty good" for somebody named Kobe with the team he currently has. It's obviously not an easy task for most other players.

Hell, Duncan, LeBron, Wade, would likely win 3 rings out of 6 with the current Laker squad with Phil as the coach.


You simply assume too much. You assume a sustained level of great TEAM play by Kobe. You assume no physical setbacks to and continued improve of Bynum. You assume a bit too much from aging and unproven role players. What of Odom? His contract is almost through... You assume chemistry. You assume health.

If it was so easy, why couldn't they win it last year? And don't say Bynum is all that's needed because you have no idea how he'll respond to his new team, and how hid body will respond to his procedures.

[baseline bum]

Bynum.

Beyond Kobe + Bynum, this Laker team is also alot more talented than the 3peat Lakers and young enough to contend for a ring until Kobe's contract runs out for a possible Kobe total of 9 rings.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves, I'd be happy with some dominance this year to start.

So you're saying Bynum will be one of the 10 greatest players of all-time and better than Kobe?

LA's supporting cast in the three-peat is so underrated.

- Greatest clutch shooter in playoff history in Horry
- Lockdown defensive SF in Fox
- Fisher shooting out of his mind in 2001
- A vastly underrated physical defender and clutch shooter in Harper
- Rice, one of the greatest scorers in the league on that 2000 team
- Phyiscal defensive big in Horace Grant on the 01 team

The only somewhat weak supporting cast that team ever had was the 02 team, which was still saved by Horry's heroics.

[JMarkJohns]

That's what you get with douche ass Laker fans. They have that sickening sense of entitlement, and the distorted view that championships are easy to come by.

It disgusts me...

[Brutalis]

For the sake of the league and copy cats, I hope he stays.

[Allanon]

You simply assume too much. You assume a sustained level of great TEAM play by Kobe. You assume no physical setbacks to and continued improve of Bynum. You assume a bit too much from aging and unproven role players. What of Odom? His contract is almost through... You assume chemistry. You assume health.

If it was so easy, why couldn't they win it last year? And don't say Bynum is all that's needed because you have no idea how he'll respond to his new team, and how hid body will respond to his procedures.

All of this is speculation and assumption of course. I'm not saying they WILL, I'm saying they have very good chances.

Injuries, etc, happen throughout the season, you don't count them in because what would be the point of predictions then. Of course their season can get derailed by injury.

Celtics are a formidable team, they have 3 of the top 25 players. Lakers also had 3 of the top 25. Celtics won, that's not surprising.

The Lakers now have 4 of the top 25 players in the league (guys who are still improving and not close to retirement) and one of the best benches. Their coach has 9 rings and they have an established leadership.

Given the current team, I don't think it's crazy or "entitled" to think they'll win a championship this year. I would think it's a huge disappointment and letdown if they don't. Is this so crazy?

[monosylab1k]

All of this is speculation and assumption of course. I'm not saying they WILL, I'm saying they have very good chances.

What basis whatsoever do you have to think they have a good chance at winning a third title, and Kobe's sixth, by 2011?

Saying "I like our chances this year" and saying "I like our chances to three-peat" are two very different things.

[Allanon]

What basis whatsoever do you have to think they have a good chance at winning a third title, and Kobe's sixth, by 2011?

Saying "I like our chances this year" and saying "I like our chances to three-peat" are two very different things.

The Lakers are a team in their prime with a young, ready bench. Fisher's the only old guy and Farmar/Sun Yue are waiting. Everybody knows Kobe's the leader so they have good chemistry. They aren't going down hill any time soon, they'll only get better.

It's like the 2000 Lakers, everybody assumed they'd continue winning, or the 3 peat Bulls. Nobody's going to assume a team in their prime would go downhill for no particular reason.

[monosylab1k]

This is why I fucking hate Kobe knobslobbers. It's not enough to say "he's the best in the league" and "he's the best since Jordan"......no, now they have to speculate about how good his chances are at a goddamn six-peat like there's any possibility whatsoever of that fucking bullshit happening.

[baseline bum]

All of this is speculation and assumption of course. I'm not saying they WILL, I'm saying they have very good chances.

Injuries, etc, happen throughout the season, you don't count them in because what would be the point of predictions then. Of course their season can get derailed by injury.

Celtics are a formidable team, they have 3 of the top 25 players. Lakers also had 3 of the top 25. Celtics won, that's not surprising.

The Lakers now have 4 of the top 25 players in the league (guys who are still improving and not close to retirement) and one of the best benches. Their coach has 9 rings and they have an established leadership.

Given the current team, I don't think it's crazy or "entitled" to think they'll win a championship this year. I would think it's a huge disappointment and letdown if they don't. Is this so crazy?

4 of the top 25? Wow. Where do Odom and Gasol fit on this list? :lmao

LeBron James
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Tim Duncan
Dwight Howard
Dwayne Wade
Dirk Nowitzki
Steve Nash
Tracy McGrady
Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett
Deron Williams
Yao Ming
Carmello Anthony
Tony Parker
Joe Johnson
Chauncey Billups
Elton Brand
Chris Bosh
Al Jefferson
Manu Ginobili
Brandon Roy
Kevin Durant
Baron Davis
Gilbert Arenas
Ray Allen
Josh Smith
Kevin Martin
Andrew Bynum
Rip Hamilton
Josh Howard

[angelbelow]

if kobe is offered 50 million hes leaving LA.

[Allanon]

This is why I fucking hate Kobe knobslobbers. It's not enough to say "he's the best in the league" and "he's the best since Jordan"......no, now they have to speculate about how good his chances are at a goddamn six-peat like there's any possibility whatsoever of that fucking bullshit happening.

I never said 6-peat :D

I said his chances are good to win 3 out of 6

It's not just about Kobe, if it was Dirk, Duncan, LeBron, Wade, <insert megastar> with this team, I'd say the same thing.

[Allanon]

4 of the top 25? Wow. Where do Odom and Gasol fit on this list? :lmao

LeBron James
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Tim Duncan
Dwight Howard
Dwayne Wade
Dirk Nowitzki
Steve Nash
Tracy McGrady
Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett
Deron Williams
Yao Ming
Carmello Anthony
Tony Parker
Joe Johnson
Chauncey Billups
Elton Brand
Chris Bosh
Al Jefferson
Manu Ginobili
Brandon Roy
Kevin Durant
Baron Davis
Gilbert Arenas
Ray Allen
Josh Smith
Kevin Martin
Andrew Bynum
Rip Hamilton
Josh Howard

Pau > Al Jefferson
Odom > Josh Howard

[baseline bum]

So since they had 3 of the top 25 last year, then Kobe can be blamed for losing it all with his shitty play in the Finals, right?

[Allanon]

So since they had 3 of the top 25 last year, then Kobe can be blamed for losing it all with his shitty play in the Finals, right?

Yes.

[baseline bum]

Pau > Al Jefferson
:lmao Pure comedy!


Odom > Josh Howard
There's 31 names on the list

[Allanon]

:lmao Pure comedy!

What? You think Al Jefferson is better than Pau Gasol? How is he better?



There's 31 names on the list

Odom > Josh Smith

[baseline bum]

What? You think Al Jefferson is better than Pau Gasol? How is he better?


In every possible way.
+ Better scorer on the block. Jefferson is pretty much unguardable down low.
+ Better rebounder
+ Very young with tons of upside
o Equivalent defender

[baseline bum]

Odom > Josh Smith

Yeah... I'm sure the Lakers would have a lot of luck offering him to Atlanta for Smith in return. :lol

[Allanon]

In every possible way.
+ Better scorer on the block. Jefferson is pretty much unguardable down low.
+ Better rebounder
+ Very young with tons of upside
o Equivalent defender

Even with all that, and being the main man on a scrub team, Jefferson scored only 2 more ppg and 2 more rebounds than Pau in 2 more minutes. While Pau with fewer minutes scores almost the same with a much higher field goal percentage.

[KidCongo]

I never said 6-peat :D

I said his chances are good to win 3 out of 6

It's not just about Kobe, if it was Dirk, Duncan, LeBron, Wade, <insert megastar> with this team, I'd say the same thing.

LeBron pushed the Celtics further without any "top 25" talent.

[Allanon]

Yeah... I'm sure the Lakers would have a lot of luck offering him to Atlanta for Smith in return. :lol

Sorry but Josh Smith is a one dimensional player. He can score and block shots but that's about it.

Odom can pretty much do anything. He scores 3 points less than Josh Smith but he adds in more rebounds, assists and far fewer turnovers.

[Allanon]

LeBron pushed the Celtics further without any "top 25" talent.

Agreed...as did the Hawks.

LeBron, Pau, Bynum, Odom, Fisher would just as easily dominate the NBA.

I'm not saying that the Lakers are going to win because Kobe's a god, I'm saying the Lakers will win because they have a bad-ass team.

Most importantly, they got another Franchise player (Pau) for the price of the Lakers 11th best player.

They cashed in like bandits in their lottery year with #10 Bynum and #something with Farmar. Sasha was also another great pick.

They traded in ineffective Mo Evans & Brian Cook for a supersub in Trevor Ariza.

[JamStone]

Sorry but Josh Smith is a one dimensional player. He can score and block shots but that's about it.

I don't agree with that comment, but that's at least two dimensions.

[Allanon]

I don't agree with that comment, but that's at least two dimensions.

I editted it afterwards, I forgot he also blocks shots...2 dimensions it is.

How do you feel about Josh Smith? Versatile all around great player or another good scorer?

[JamStone]

I'd take Josh Smith on my team any time. But, I do think he needs to be surrounded with skilled players. He's still raw even now, but he's a playmaker. Lamar Odom is definitely more skilled than Josh Smith. I'd sit on the fence with this particular question. I wouldn't have a problem either way if someone was arguing either was better than the other.

[BUMP]

Dear Allanon,




Don't you have to win one, before you think about three-peating?

















Sincerely,

The Celtics

[Allanon]

I'd take Josh Smith on my team any time. But, I do think he needs to be surrounded with skilled players. He's still raw even now, but he's a playmaker. Lamar Odom is definitely more skilled than Josh Smith. I'd sit on the fence with this particular question. I wouldn't have a problem either way if someone was arguing either was better than the other.

Yes, I can see how Josh Smith does have talent...I also think he's just too raw now...and we don't know if he'll every dedicate the work towards increasing his skill. For now, I'd still take Odom over Josh Smith.


Dear Allanon,

Don't you have to win one, before you think about three-peating?


Hahah, just shooting the breeze talking about the other titles, it's pretty boring now with not much to talk about.

Yes, I agree, 1 would be a good start.

[BUMP]

Hahah, just shooting the breeze talking about the other titles, it's pretty boring now with not much to talk about.

Yes, I agree, 1 would be a good start.

i hear ya, plus after a team fails to win a title with a lot of talent. the FO starts making drastic and stupid moves seemingly playing themselves out of contention. (well atleast the Mavs) maybe not all teams do that. idk:lol

[nhan]

Most importantly, they got another Franchise player (Pau) for the price of the Lakers 11th best player.

In another post, you said you can't have more than 1 franchise player. You said Tony Parker isn't a franchise player because there can only be one. You are a hypocrite.

And Odom in the top 25? Are you fucking serious? And Gasol and Bynum are IMO not in the top 25. It's debatable but I dont think so.

(no order):
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Dirk Nowitzki
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Allen Iverson
6. Carmelo Anthony
7. LeBron James
8. Dwyane Wade
9. Paul Pierce
10. Tony Parker
11. Manu Ginobili
12. Steve Nash
13. Chris Paul
14. Deron Williams
15. Yao Ming
16. Dwight Howard
17. Amare Stoudemire
18. Tracy McGrady
19. Chris Bosh
20. David West
21. Elton Brand
22. Baron Davis
23. Kevin Martin
24. Al Jefferson
25. Joe Johnson
26. Gilbert Arenas
27. Michael Redd
28. Vince Carter

Gasol is probably top 30, fits probably 25-30 on the list.

Andrew Bynum and could be top 25, but he hasnt proven it for long enough. A third of the season is definitely not enough. I wouldnt put him in the top 25 yet. Id say top 35.

And Odom is top 50. I dont even know how you can say Odom is in the top 25. There's those 28, plus Gasol and Bynum, which make it 30. Plus there's guys like:

Brandon Roy, Rudy Gay, Andre Iguodala, Carlos Boozer, Rasheed Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton, Caron Butler, Ray Allen, Kevin Durant, Jason Kidd, Jose Calderon, Josh Smith, Josh Howard....and more. And I'm forgetting a ton of people too.

[daslicer]

Honestly Bynum is overhyped the kids is good but he's not special like lakerfans are hyping him up to be. He's a good player but not some guy whose going to be an elite center like Shaq,Dream, and I would go to say not even close to being in the league of Drob,Alonzo, Ewing. He's more of a mixture of Kevin Duckworth, Eddie Curry,Austin circa '96-'98 all rolled in one .

[Fabbs]

Who is to say what marketing forces will collude into effect again.
Lakers start to tank again or fall short of a title? Enter some foul smelling trade again.

Look at their history, how they got Kareem Alcindor, Magic, Mychael Thompson mid season for a sack of flour when a mobile 4 was exactly what they needed at the time.

Look for more b.s. to keep the Marketing Machine proffiting off their sheep.

[Allanon]

In another post, you said you can't have more than 1 franchise player. You said Tony Parker isn't a franchise player because there can only be one. You are a hypocrite.

I think you need to go back to ESL, Nhan, Kobe is the "franchise" player on the Lakers, there is no disputing that.



And Odom in the top 25? Are you fucking serious? And Gasol and Bynum are IMO not in the top 25. It's debatable but I dont think so.
Gasol is probably top 30, fits probably 25-30 on the list.
Andrew Bynum and could be top 25, but he hasnt proven it for long enough. A third of the season is definitely not enough. I wouldnt put him in the top 25 yet. Id say top 35.

And Odom is top 50. I dont even know how you can say Odom is in the top 25. There's those 28, plus Gasol and Bynum, which make it 30. Plus there's guys like:

Brandon Roy, Rudy Gay, Andre Iguodala, Carlos Boozer, Rasheed Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton, Caron Butler, Ray Allen, Kevin Durant, Jason Kidd, Jose Calderon, Josh Smith, Josh Howard....and more. And I'm forgetting a ton of people too.

That's your opinion.


Honestly Bynum is overhyped the kids is good but he's not special like lakerfans are hyping him up to be. He's a good player but not some guy whose going to be an elite center like Shaq,Dream, and I would go to say not even close to being in the league of Drob,Alonzo, Ewing.
The only 20 year old Center that would have beat out Bynum's output minute by minute would have been Shaq.

Bynum will be special because he's both an excellent defender and an excellent offensive player. In addition, he has an extremely low foul rate for a 20 year old center unlike bigs like Amare, Shaq, Yao, Alonzo, etc. It normally takes a few years for big men to learn how to play without fouling. Bynum's body control and footwork is superb for a 7'1 dude, that's why he doesn't foul much.

[tlongII]

I think you need to go back to ESL, Nhan, Kobe is the "franchise" player on the Lakers, there is no disputing that.



That's your opinion.


The only 20 year old Center that would have beat out Bynum's output minute by minute would have been Shaq.

You're about to get Pritch-slapped!

[TheMadHatter]

Bynum doesn't have to be Shaq for LAL to be a great team next season. You realize they went to the Finals WITHOUT him last season right? Think about that for a second.

You take a championship caliber team and ADD a guy like Bynum for free. Any player in this league that can average 13/10/2/+50%FG in under 30mpg is going to improve your team. The Lakers are good getting better. I can't say the same for the Spurs.

[Allanon]

You're about to get Pritch-slapped!

The Oden/Bynum battle will be great in a couple of years. But right now, Bynum has too much experience on the rookie.

[Allanon]

Who is to say what marketing forces will collude into effect again.
Lakers start to tank again or fall short of a title? Enter some foul smelling trade again.

Look at their history, how they got Kareem Alcindor, Magic, Mychael Thompson mid season for a sack of flour when a mobile 4 was exactly what they needed at the time.

Look for more b.s. to keep the Marketing Machine proffiting off their sheep.

Yes, that's why one of the smallest TV markets got the best power forward of all time, Tim Duncan as the #1 pick. The Lakers have been a scrub team for years now but the best they've done in the draft was a #10 pick.

Kobe Bryant is the star of this team and drafted at #13...there was no collusion in that. It was considered a dumb trade back then when Jerry West traded star Center Vlade for Kobe. Guys drafted before Kobe included: AI, Camby, Shareef, Starbury, Ray Allen, Antoine Walker, Lorenzen Wright, Kerry Kittles, Samaki Walker, Eric Dampier, Todd Fuller, VitalyVitaly Potapenko.

Have conspiracy theories all you want but everybody remembers how many times the NBA "colluded" to make the tiny-ass market Spurs the team of the new Millenium. And don't forget their co-conspirator was the tv ratings juggernaut Detroit Pistons.

If you want to talk collusion, the Spurs got the #1 draft pick in 1987 for David Robinson and then the #1 pick for Tim Duncan. Both were unanimous, no-brainer #1 picks like LeBron & Shaq.

No other team than the Spurs (in recent memory) has had 2 consensus #1 franchise player picks that I know of.

[baseline bum]

Yes, that's why one of the smallest TV markets got the best power forward of all time, Tim Duncan as the #1 pick. The Lakers have been a scrub team for years now but the best they've done in the draft was a #10 pick.

Kobe Bryant is the star of this team and drafted at #13...there was no collusion in that. It was considered a dumb trade back then when Jerry West traded star Center Vlade for Kobe. Guys drafted before Kobe included: AI, Camby, Shareef, Starbury, Ray Allen, Antoine Walker, Lorenzen Wright, Kerry Kittles, Samaki Walker, Eric Dampier, Todd Fuller, VitalyVitaly Potapenko.

Have conspiracy theories all you want but everybody remembers how many times the NBA "colluded" to make the tiny-ass market Spurs the team of the new Millenium. And don't forget their co-conspirator was the tv ratings juggernaut Detroit Pistons.

If you want to talk collusion, the Spurs got the #1 draft pick in 1987 for David Robinson and then the #1 pick for Tim Duncan. Both were unanimous, no-brainer #1 picks like LeBron & Shaq.

No other team than the Spurs (in recent memory) has had 2 consensus #1 franchise player picks that I know of.

O'Neal and Webber were both pretty unanimous #1s for Orlando.

[Allanon]

O'Neal and Webber were both pretty unanimous #1s for Orlando.

I don't think Webber was the kind of no-brainer deal a Shaq or Duncan would be. In fact, he never played a game for Orlando because he was traded right away for Penny Hardaway.

[lefty]

Bynum.

Beyond Kobe + Bynum, this Laker team is also alot more talented than the 3peat Lakers and young enough to contend for a ring until Kobe's contract runs out for a possible Kobe total of 9 rings.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves, I'd be happy with some dominance this year to start.

:lmao

[Allanon]

:lmao

Yeah, some of it was for fun but which part are you laughing at?

ps. You haven't made any predictions on the Spurs season yet, I've been waiting to read it.

[Fabbs]

Yes, that's why one of the smallest TV markets got the best power forward of all time, Tim Duncan as the #1 pick. The Lakers have been a scrub team for years now but the best they've done in the draft was a #10 pick.

Kobe Bryant is the star of this team and drafted at #13...there was no collusion in that. It was considered a dumb trade back then when Jerry West traded star Center Vlade for Kobe. Guys drafted before Kobe included: AI, Camby, Shareef, Starbury, Ray Allen, Antoine Walker, Lorenzen Wright, Kerry Kittles, Samaki Walker, Eric Dampier, Todd Fuller, VitalyVitaly Potapenko.

Have conspiracy theories all you want but everybody remembers how many times the NBA "colluded" to make the tiny-ass market Spurs the team of the new Millenium. And don't forget their co-conspirator was the tv ratings juggernaut Detroit Pistons.

If you want to talk collusion, the Spurs got the #1 draft pick in 1987 for David Robinson and then the #1 pick for Tim Duncan. Both were unanimous, no-brainer #1 picks like LeBron & Shaq.

No other team than the Spurs (in recent memory) has had 2 consensus #1 franchise player picks that I know of.
Sterns Laker love/hatred of the then best Celtics (80s prior to the Lenny Bias overdose) ensured the Spurs got the ping pongs over the Celts? Oh yes. :toast
And i doubt David Robinson breaking his foot for a #2 pick happened. :lol

[tlongII]

The Oden/Bynum battle will be great in a couple of years. But right now, Bynum has too much experience on the rookie.

Actually the battle won't be much now or in the future. Oden will dominate immediately. I'm sorry, but your time is over. Now.

[Allanon]

Sterns Laker love/hatred of the then best Celtics (80s prior to the Lenny Bias overdose) ensured the Spurs got the ping pongs over the Celts? Oh yes. :toast

What are you talking about, the only #1 draft pick the Lakers have gotten since the 70's was Magic. Spurs had 2 franchise #1 draft picks in 10 years. Spurs saying the Lakers (or any other team) were favored in the lottery is crazy talk at best and "the pot calling the kettle black" at worst :D



And i doubt David Robinson breaking his foot for a #2 pick happened. :lol
David Robinson's "foot fracture" was only a couple games into the season. But the Spurs mysteriously kept him out for an entire season. A fractured foot is normally a 2 month injury, max 3 months. People with surgery come back even quicker than DRob's "fractured foot" :lol

[ChuckD]

What are you talking about, the only #1 draft pick the Lakers have gotten since the 70's was Magic. Spurs had 2 franchise #1 draft picks in 10 years. Spurs saying the Lakers (or any other team) were favored in the lottery is crazy talk at best and "the pot calling the kettle black" at worst :D


David Robinson's "foot fracture" was only a couple games into the season. But the Spurs mysteriously kept him out for an entire season. A fractured foot is normally a 2 month injury, max 3 months. People with surgery come back even quicker than DRob's "fractured foot" :lol

Actually, David started the year on the shelf with a bad sports hernia from playing for his country for the third time in the Olympics. He returned sometime in December, and broke the foot in like his 6th game back, and was then done for the year.

[Allanon]

Actually, David started the year on the shelf with a bad sports hernia from playing for his country for the third time in the Olympics. He returned sometime in December, and broke the foot in like his 6th game back, and was then done for the year.

Thanks for clarifying that ChuckD, I didn't start watching the Spurs until the next year when Duncan joined.

As far as David Robinson, even injured in December, David Robinson could have come back in late February instead of getting shelved for the season.

[dbreiden83080]

LOL 6 he is not MJ and he never will be. He won't get 6 and even if he does it won't be because he was the man. He has now choked his ass off in 2 finals that MJ would have dominated.

[Fabbs]

Actually, David started the year on the shelf with a bad sports hernia from playing for his country for the third time in the Olympics. He returned sometime in December, and broke the foot in like his 6th game back, and was then done for the year.
Thanks Chuck.

[Allanon]

LOL 6 he is not MJ and he never will be. He won't get 6 and even if he does it won't be because he was the man.

Oh, he does not have to be MJ, he just needs 6 or more and people would start debating who was greater. Then he can just be Kobe. Instead of being "I want to be like Mike" they could say "Like Kobe" even though it doesn't rhyme as well.

Right now, there is no debate between MJ and Kobe. That's why no matter how much money you pay Kobe, he ain't leaving the NBA while he has a chance to beat MJ.



He has now choked his ass off in 2 finals that MJ would have dominated.
Everybody forgets that MJ lost 3 years in a row to the Detroit Bad Boys before finally winning a championship at age 28.

[dbreiden83080]

Oh, he does not have to be MJ, he just needs 6 or more and people would start debating who was greater

Nobody will debate who was greater with a fully functioning brain. I know you are a huge Laker fan but come on. Kobe just got badly outplayed by Paul friggin Pierce in the finals. MJ would have destroyed Pierce. MJ in his day whipped a prime Clyde Drexler and Charles Barkely in the finals like nobody's business. MJ is more clutch, better all around and far more dominant player than Kobe could ever hope to be. MJ is 6 for 6 in NBA finals. Nobody Kobe lost too, MJ's Bulls would not have beat, sorry but it's true.


"That's why no matter how much money you pay Kobe, he ain't leaving the NBA while he has a chance to beat MJ".

He won't beat MJ nomatter what. He is already 30 years old and he has played like shit in 2 NBA finals. MJ will go down as the best of all time and right now Kobe is not even ahead of Magic as the best Laker ever and is behind Duncan on the all time list if you ask me.

"Everybody forgets that MJ lost 3 years in a row to the Detroit Bad Boys before finally winning a championship at age 28"

One of the most dominant defensive teams of all time in an era where physcial D was allowed on a daily basis. Those Piston teams were amazing and MJ had yet to grow up as a pro. Once he did, he destroyed the Pistons and his legacy of winning began. Kobe has already gotten as good as he going to be in my view.

[Allanon]

Nobody will debate who was greater with a fully functioning brain. I know you are a huge Laker fan but come on. Kobe just got badly outplayed by Paul friggin Pierce in the finals. MJ would have destroyed Pierce. MJ in his day whipped a prime Clyde Drexler and Charles Barkely in the finals like nobody's business. MJ is more clutch, better all around and far more dominant player than Kobe could ever hope to be. MJ is 6 for 6 in NBA finals. Nobody Kobe lost too, MJ's Bulls would not have beat, sorry but it's true.


"That's why no matter how much money you pay Kobe, he ain't leaving the NBA while he has a chance to beat MJ".

He won't beat MJ nomatter what. He is already 30 years old and he has played like shit in 2 NBA finals. MJ will go down as the best of all time and right now Kobe is not even ahead of Magic as the best Laker ever and is behind Duncan on the all time list if you ask me.

"Everybody forgets that MJ lost 3 years in a row to the Detroit Bad Boys before finally winning a championship at age 28"

One of the most dominant defensive teams of all time in an era where physcial D was allowed on a daily basis. Those Piston teams were amazing and MJ had yet to grow up as a pro. Once he did, he destroyed the Pistons and his legacy of winning began. Kobe has already gotten as good as he going to be in my view.

All good points, there's always a great debate as to whether defense was better before as it was more physical or nowadays with zone defense allowed. And all that stuff is debateable, there have been hundreds of threads on this.

The only non-debateable part in which Kobe loses automatically is the ring count. I'm just saying ff Kobe does get 6 rings, then who is greater MJ or Kobe becomes a debateable topic. If he gets 7 or more rings, then it's a valid argument.

MJ didn't get his 4th ring until he was 33 so Kobe still has some leeway there. 6 years is a long times away so I guess we'll just have to wait 6 years to find out.