To all of the responsible homeowners

[KenMcCoy]

Will you be pissed if your neighbor who is about to get foreclosed on gets a new interest rate a point or two lower than yours???

[Wild Cobra]

Will you be pissed if your neighbor who is about to get foreclosed on gets a new interest rate a point or two lower than yours???
I would simply ask for a better deal myself. In my view, intelligent people don't worry about what others have or get. To do so isn't cool.

[boutons_]

Good question, difficult situation. Your question betrays your typical right-wing, punitive, fuck-'em-all-to-hell "values".

Would your rather have your neighbor renting somewhere, maybe homeless on the street, with their ex-house shuttered up, with the lender-owner under-maintaining it, and dragging down further your already-dropping property valuation, which is exactly what is happening in many neighborhoods, even gated McMansion neighborhoods?

[Shastafarian]

Will you be pissed if your neighbor who is about to get foreclosed on gets a new interest rate a point or two lower than yours???

fuck that I wouldn't live next to poor people

- whottt

[KenMcCoy]

Good question, difficult situation. Your question betrays your typical right-wing, punitive, fuck-'em-all-to-hell "values".

Would your rather have your neighbor renting somewhere, maybe homeless on the street, with their ex-house shuttered up, with the lender-owner under-maintaining it, and dragging down further your already-dropping property valuation, which is exactly what is happening in many neighborhoods, even gated McMansion neighborhoods?

It's a tough question thats why I'm still sorting through it.

[SpursFanFirst]

Heck yeah, I'd be pissed! This is what's irritating me about all these bailouts - companies or individuals.
I have been responsible by doing my research and managing my money well the last few years. And I'm working my way out of debt ON MY OWN. I don't have a husband to bail me out. It's all me.
And someone else comes along, buys a home 3 times what they can afford, complains when they can't pay the bills because it's someone else's fault (like the mortgage companies), and then they get a break with a lower interest rate. It's disgusting.

With that being said, if my neighbor got a better rate, I'd also start searching for a better rate.

[SpursFanFirst]

Your question betrays your typical right-wing, punitive, fuck-'em-all-to-hell "values".

So, it's not OK to be pissed that irresponsible people are getting the breaks, while the responsible ones are being told, "Sorry, but we can't help you?"

It's ridiculous.

[ChuckD]

Will you be pissed if your neighbor who is about to get foreclosed on gets a new interest rate a point or two lower than yours???

If they're getting a point or two below you, then you haven't been on the ball enough to refinance when you should have, and that's your own damn fault. Worst case is they get your rate. It's better for that to happen then for a bunch of houses in your sub to go into foreclosure. THAT would be bad.

[spurster]

This hypothetical neighbour will not only get a much lower interest rate, but will have a much lower principal, too, dragging down the value of your home. Yes, we should be angry, but the alternative would be even worse for you. Who should be happy about a $1 trillion bailout? I don't belong to the "deficits don't matter" group. In the long run, this (and all the tax cuts being promised which will be paid for with more deficit spending) results in increased taxes. If we were responsible like KM wants us to be, we would support taxes to keep the deficit from skyrocketing.

[KenMcCoy]

If they're getting a point or two below you, then you haven't been on the ball enough to refinance when you should have, and that's your own damn fault. Worst case is they get your rate. It's better for that to happen then for a bunch of houses in your sub to go into foreclosure. THAT would be bad.

Yeah...I guess if you've been paying on your house than you'll definitely qualify for refinancing on your own. Haven't looked into it too much since my rate is pretty decent <6%.

[Tully365]

Will you be pissed if your neighbor who is about to get foreclosed on gets a new interest rate a point or two lower than yours???

It's much better for you financially to have them get a better rate and keep their house rather than to have an empty foreclosed house next door. That would only bring down the appraisal value of your house.

[SpursFanFirst]

If they're getting a point or two below you, then you haven't been on the ball enough to refinance when you should have, and that's your own damn fault. Worst case is they get your rate. It's better for that to happen then for a bunch of houses in your sub to go into foreclosure. THAT would be bad.

:lmao I love it - blaming the responsible homeowner for not "being more on the ball" and getting a better rate in this economy!

Just recently, I was looking for a house, and it was EXTREMELY tough to get a loan.
I have NEVER been late or missed a payment, but I was going to be forced to put down a sizable down payment just to be eligible for a loan, while the irresponsible person is being bailed out for not knowing better.

Yeah. That's fair.

[Tully365]

Also-- as Americans, shouldn't we be rooting for as many of our neighbors and fellow citizens as possible to keep their homes, rather than against them due to reasons like anger or envy? There will obviously be some who've totally mismanaged their situations and can't be saved, but for the overall picture, I think it's better to hope that as many people as possible can be aided.

[ChumpDumper]

So, it's not OK to be pissed that irresponsible people are getting the breaks, while the responsible ones are being told, "Sorry, but we can't help you?"

It's ridiculous.Do the responsible ones need help?

[SpursFanFirst]

Do the responsible ones need help?

The responsible ones want breaks for being responsible.
We want, and deserve, better rates.

[ChumpDumper]

The responsible ones want breaks for being responsible.
We want, and deserve, better rates.Sounds like you qualified for a loan.

These days, that's a break.

[Tully365]

The responsible ones want breaks for being responsible.
We want, and deserve, better rates.

The upside for you in this situation (if you're still looking for a house) is that there are suddenly many greatly price-reduced houses flooding the market, and many desperate sellers. If you are patient and really do the work looking, you will definitely be able to find a great deal, and quite possibly could wind up in a much better situation than if you'd purchased one or two years ago, even if you'd gotten a better rate.

[Mr. Peabody]

Will you be pissed if your neighbor who is about to get foreclosed on actually gets foreclosed on and starts driving the

Yes, I'd rather be shortsighted and petty and let him get foreclosed on thereby driving down the values of the homes in my neighborhood.

Great thread.

[Mr. Peabody]

I would simply ask for a better deal myself. In my view, intelligent people don't worry about what others have or get. To do so isn't cool.

+1

[Oh, Gee!!]

I would simply ask for a better deal myself. In my view, intelligent people don't worry about what others have or get. To do so isn't cool.

wow. props to WC. totally agree.

[Biernutz]

The down side is get ready for rent houses flooding the neighborhoods now. To put butts in these houses get ready for low rents and lots of trouble. I have lived on the south side and north side of San Antonio where the renters just don't take care of the house or yard.

[boutons_]

"So, it's not OK to be pissed that irresponsible people are getting the breaks"

I assume you are beyond 10 years old and have realized life isn't fair, but that's apparently a wrong assumption.

"while the responsible ones are being told, "Sorry, but we can't help you?" "

oh-so-responsible one, you want, even need, help? It sounded like you were one badass, mythical, go-it-alone, rugged invividualist who makes her own breaks and doesn't need or want help, but I guess I'm wrong there, too.

[SpursFanFirst]

"while the responsible ones are being told, "Sorry, but we can't help you?" "

oh-so-responsible one, you want, even need, help? It sounded like you were one badass, mythical, go-it-alone, rugged invividualist who makes her own breaks and doesn't need or want help, but I guess I'm wrong there, too.

You are. I already answered that question.

[baseline bum]

That's like asking if you'd be pissed the neighbor is nailing the hot chick down the street. Don't be a player hater.

[ChuckD]

The responsible ones want breaks for being responsible.
We want, and deserve, better rates.

Sounds like what got this whole mess started in the first place: trying to qual people who really couldn't afford a home. Belatedly, it sounds like they're tightening the criteria to what they should be. Sucks for you right now, but when you can afford a home, REALLY afford it, you'll get one.

[Clandestino]

fuck the neighbor. let him get foreclosed on because there will always be someone willing to buy his house.

[ChuckD]

Yeah...I guess if you've been paying on your house than you'll definitely qualify for refinancing on your own. Haven't looked into it too much since my rate is pretty decent <6%.

Someone gets it. When I bought in 2000, the rates were 8+. I re-fied in 2003 at 5.96 on a 30 year note. I'm sure there are people who bought at 8% who are still at 8% because they don't pay attention or don't understand the benefits of re-financing. Sucks for them. I'm sure they're crying as much as Ms. I can't get a mortgage and it's so unfair. Whoever told you life was fair lied. Life isn't fair, life is about dealing with the realities of, and living in the now. Save. Spiff up your credit rating. Wait for the right time and conditions.

[Oh, Gee!!]

And someone else comes along, buys a home 3 times what they can afford, complains when they can't pay the bills because it's someone else's fault (like the mortgage companies), and then they get a break with a lower interest rate. It's disgusting.

free market economy. don't like it? go to russia!

[SnakeBoy]

but I was going to be forced to put down a sizable down payment just to be eligible for a loan

That's the way it should be. If someone doesn't have the ability to come up with at least 15% then the home is beyond their means. Either because they just don't earn enough or they don't have the fiscal discipline to save money.

For most it's likely the latter since the american savings rate now negative.

[PixelPusher]

fuck the neighbor. let him get foreclosed on because there will always be someone willing to buy his house.

Olbermann needs to hire you as his "Colmes" punching bag.

[SpursFanFirst]

Sounds like what got this whole mess started in the first place: trying to qual people who really couldn't afford a home. Belatedly, it sounds like they're tightening the criteria to what they should be. Sucks for you right now, but when you can afford a home, REALLY afford it, you'll get one.


I have one. Thanks.
And I afford it just fine.

What I hate is irresponsible people getting better rates to bail them out.

[SpursFanFirst]

Someone gets it. When I bought in 2000, the rates were 8+. I re-fied in 2003 at 5.96 on a 30 year note. I'm sure there are people who bought at 8% who are still at 8% because they don't pay attention or don't understand the benefits of re-financing. Sucks for them. I'm sure they're crying as much as Ms. I can't get a mortgage and it's so unfair. Whoever told you life was fair lied. Life isn't fair, life is about dealing with the realities of, and living in the now. Save. Spiff up your credit rating. Wait for the right time and conditions.

Perhaps you never read my comments.
I HAVE A HOME...I GOT A LOAN...
And I have a 6% rate. I DID refinance to a lower rate a while back.

but if someone is irresponsible and needs to be bailed out because they didn't research their options...and now they're getting help AND getting better rates...THAT'S CRAP!

[Biernutz]

fuck the neighbor. let him get foreclosed on because there will always be someone willing to buy his house.

Not always--A house next to me was vacant from January till 3 weeks ago. It was a repo and the new owner was trying to flip it. He couldn't sell it so now he has turned it into a rent house.

[ChumpDumper]

Gotta hate someone, I guess.

[SpursFanFirst]

Gotta hate someone, I guess.

Yeah. Who's paying to bail these people out, would you say?

[SpursFanFirst]

Perhaps I should just stop paying my bills...
Hmmm...maybe, I should spend every penny I make on stupid stuff, and never save.

Better yet? Why don't I just stop doing my work at the station, get fired, then go on welfare and let the freakin' government take care of me?

[SpursFanFirst]

That's the way it should be. If someone doesn't have the ability to come up with at least 15% then the home is beyond their means. Either because they just don't earn enough or they don't have the fiscal discipline to save money.

For most it's likely the latter since the american savings rate now negative.

...says the guy who makes $275,000 a year...

Give me a break.

[ChumpDumper]

Gotta hate someone, I guess.

Yeah. Who's paying to bail these people out, would you say?If they are just paying a lower rate? Is the original loan paid off by taxpayers in full with all the interest that would have been due over 30 or whatever years? Let me know whom to hate.

[ChumpDumper]

...says the guy who makes $275,000 a year...

Give me a break.So we should hate the richers too? This list is getting long.

[SpursFanFirst]

I guess, Chump, that you're OK with people not pulling their own weight.

I find that interesting, if you're one of the responsible people.

[SpursFanFirst]

So we should hate the richers too? This list is getting long.


I'm saying that, he's making $275,000 a year...naturally, it's no big deal for him to come up with a downpayment of 15%.

I didn't say we should hate him. But thanks for putting words in my mouth.

[ChumpDumper]

Shit happens. I wish people had been better educated about home finance, but what's done is done. There already seems to be a substantial surplus of housing, so at this point it seems like a good idea to try to keep some current owners in their houses.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm saying that, he's making $275,000 a year...naturally, it's no big deal for him to come up with a downpayment of 15%.

I didn't say we should hate him. But thanks for putting words in my mouth.It's pleasing to know you have determined his entire financial situation from his internets post.

I do love class warfare when the going gets tough. It's fun to watch.

[SpursFanFirst]

Shit happens. I wish people had been better educated about home finance, but what's done is done. There already seems to be a substantial surplus of housing, so at this point it seems like a good idea to try to keep some current owners in their houses.

That's fine, but we kind of got off the original question.
He asked if we'd be fine with our irresponsible neighbors getting a better rate than us.

If you're a responsible person, and you're rate is, say 7%...are you OK with your irresponsible neighbor getting bailed out and getting a rate for 5.5%?
These are just random numbers, of course, but the gist is there.

[SpursFanFirst]

It's pleasing to know you have determined his entire financial situation from his internets post.

I do love class warfare when the going gets tough. It's fun to watch.

Yeah. It is kind of like having people reading your posts and the putting words in your mouth.

[ChumpDumper]

If I can pay my own mortgage, and my neighbor is a good one -- who cares? I'm not one to get all up into other people's finances.

[SpursFanFirst]

If I can pay my own mortgage, and my neighbor is a good one -- who cares? I'm not one to get all up into other people's finances.


Well, the OP was asking if people would be upset to know their neighbor was getting bailed out and getting a better rate.

If you don't care, then why did you bother to open and answer this thread?

[ChumpDumper]

Well, the OP was asking if people would be upset to know their neighbor was getting bailed out and getting a better rate.

If you don't care, then why did you bother to open and answer this thread?Because not caring about it when you know is indeed an answer.

You are too busy hating to realize that.

[SpursFanFirst]

Because not caring about it when you know is indeed an answer.

You are too busy hating to realize that.

Yes. Yes, that's me. I'm a hater. :rolleyes
I think my conversation with you has run its course, but gee...it sure was fun.

[ChumpDumper]

responsible = angry

I am quite angry in my spending habits.

[The Reckoning]

if it was a small property and i had a lot of money, id be happy for the neighbor to foreclose...then id buy the property, tear down the house, and build a basketball court

[ChuckD]

Perhaps you never read my comments.
I HAVE A HOME...I GOT A LOAN...
And I have a 6% rate. I DID refinance to a lower rate a while back.

but if someone is irresponsible and needs to be bailed out because they didn't research their options...and now they're getting help AND getting better rates...THAT'S CRAP!

Ah, so you just want other people to suffer. They're NOT getting a better rate than you, just a better one than the bloodsucking mortgage companies escalate them to. It's not like the bailout is a 3% rate. They're probably going to get something in the neighborhood of 6-7%, allowing them and their kids to stay in the home. Relax, though. I'm sure some of them won't make it anyway, and their families will be out on the street. That should make you happy. You're a real shitty, small person.

[SpursFanFirst]

You're a real shitty, small person.

You are out of line.
And just like Chumpdumper, you're making assumptions.
I don't want those people to be on the street. I never said that.
Ken asked if we'd be upset knowing that our irresponsible neighbor got a better rate when bailed out.
My answer was, "Yes. And I'd look for a better rate."

[KenMcCoy]

if it was a small property and i had a lot of money, id be happy for the neighbor to foreclose...then id buy the property, tear down the house, and build a basketball court

I like your thinking:toast

[ChumpDumper]

You are out of line.
And just like Chumpdumper, you're making assumptions.
I don't want those people to be on the street. I never said that.
Ken asked if we'd be upset knowing that our irresponsible neighbor got a better rate when bailed out.
My answer was, "Yes. And I'd look for a better rate."You left out your little tantrum from that post.

[SnakeBoy]

I'm saying that, he's making $275,000 a year...naturally, it's no big deal for him to come up with a downpayment of 15%.


First, it's $225k, it's household income (wife makes more than me), it'll be less next year since she is going to ease up her schedule finally, we both come from families that made under $40k, we came up with the 15% down plus closing costs 8 years ago when household income was $65k, I drive a seven year old truck (paid for), just bought (cash) a new LCD big screen after owning a 27" peice of crap from montgomery ward for 11 years...mostly we just work hard and try to forego spending our money on crap and save as much as we can.

I could go on but you should be getting the point. So spare me the class warfare bullshit. Spare me the cry for sympathy that people aren't going to be allowed to live their lives in debt bullshit. Anyone who wants to buy a house with no money down and even finance closing costs is a fucking idiot. I'll have a hard time feeling sorry for them. And yes I have friends who are living that way. Friends that make $80K, have kids, have nicer homes homes than me, are constantly driving new cars, buy every new electronic toy because they just have to have it. And even though they are friends and I care about them, I'm not going to feel sorry for them when it all comes crashing down around them. It's inevitable and it was their CHOICE!

[SpursFanFirst]

You left out your little tantrum from that post.

There wasn't a "tantrum" until people like you started attacking me (and putting words in my mouth) because I have a problem with having near perfect credit and not being able to get a better rate, while a neighbor with financial problems gets a better rate.

[The Reckoning]

you could also pull a samuel l jackson on them

[ChumpDumper]

There wasn't a "tantrum" until people like you started attacking me (and putting words in my mouth) because I have a problem with having near perfect credit and not being able to get a better rate, while a neighbor with financial problems gets a better rate.No, your tantrum was in the same post as your answer.

[ChumpDumper]

First, it's $225k, it's household income (wife makes more than me), it'll be less next year since she is going to ease up her schedule finally, we both come from families that made under $40k, we came up with the 15% down plus closing costs 8 years ago when household income was $65k, I drive a seven year old truck (paid for), just bought (cash) a new LCD big screen after owning a 27" peice of crap from montgomery ward for 11 years...mostly we just work hard and try to forego spending our money on crap and save as much as we can.

I could go on but you should be getting the point. So spare me the class warfare bullshit. Spare me the cry for sympathy that people aren't going to be allowed to live their lives in debt bullshit. Anyone who wants to buy a house with no money down and even finance closing costs is a fucking idiot. I'll have a hard time feeling sorry for them. And yes I have friends who are living that way. Friends that make $80K, have kids, have nicer homes homes than me, are constantly driving new cars, buy every new electronic toy because they just have to have it. And even though they are friends and I care about them, I'm not going to feel sorry for them when it all comes crashing down around them. It's inevitable and it was their CHOICE!

Damn I hate you, richer!

[san antonio spurs]

There wasn't a "tantrum" until people like you started attacking me (and putting words in my mouth) because I have a problem with having near perfect credit and not being able to get a better rate, while a neighbor with financial problems gets a better rate.
I'm a banker, and although it's in canada, I think it's the same with what you have in USA and I can't believe a person with near perfect credit might have trouble getting a loan unless you wanted an expensive house that you couldn't afford.

[ChuckD]

There wasn't a "tantrum" until people like you started attacking me (and putting words in my mouth) because I have a problem with having near perfect credit and not being able to get a better rate, while a neighbor with financial problems gets a better rate.

What an awful way to live: wrapped up in what other people have, what other people are doing or getting. That's elementary school stuff: she got the bigger cookie or the fuller glass of kool-aid. Sad.

[SpursFanFirst]

First, it's $225k, it's household income (wife makes more than me), it'll be less next year since she is going to ease up her schedule finally, we both come from families that made under $40k, we came up with the 15% down plus closing costs 8 years ago when household income was $65k, I drive a seven year old truck (paid for), just bought (cash) a new LCD big screen after owning a 27" peice of crap from montgomery ward for 11 years...mostly we just work hard and try to forego spending our money on crap and save as much as we can.

I could go on but you should be getting the point. So spare me the class warfare bullshit. Spare me the cry for sympathy that people aren't going to be allowed to live their lives in debt bullshit. Anyone who wants to buy a house with no money down and even finance closing costs is a fucking idiot. I'll have a hard time feeling sorry for them. And yes I have friends who are living that way. Friends that make $80K, have kids, have nicer homes homes than me, are constantly driving new cars, buy every new electronic toy because they just have to have it. And even though they are friends and I care about them, I'm not going to feel sorry for them when it all comes crashing down around them. It's inevitable and it was their CHOICE!

I'm happy for you. I think it's awesome that you and your wife have gotten everything that you've worked so hard for. Seriously. Kudos! :toast

And I'm in the same boat you were in years ago.
I work hard. I make a decent living, but I'm never going to get rich in my profession, but I accept that.
I'm working my way out from the mistakes I made when I was younger...and I'm doing it on my own.

I never said I have a problem with people making money. CD was putting words and assumptions there that never were.

I was just saying that, coming up with a 15% down payment isn't really an option for someone making $50,000/year. Well, OK...it IS possible. That wasn't my point.
15% down is a LOT for most people.
Someone making $225,000 would most likely have an easier time.

But, I never said you should have sympathy for those who got themselves into debt.

[SpursFanFirst]

Damn I hate you, richer!

:rolleyes

[ChuckD]

And I have a 6% rate. I DID refinance to a lower rate a while back.
How much lower a rate do you think you're going to get? That's close to the all time low, and certainly probably not worth a re-finance even if you could find that rate.

[SpursFanFirst]

I'm a banker, and although it's in canada, I think it's the same with what you have in USA and I can't believe a person with near perfect credit might have trouble getting a loan unless you wanted an expensive house that you couldn't afford.

OK. I did NOT have a problem getting a loan. I want a better rate.
And NO...I did NOT buy a house I couldn't afford. It's well within my means.

[SpursFanFirst]

What an awful way to live: wrapped up in what other people have, what other people are doing or getting. That's elementary school stuff: she got the bigger cookie or the fuller glass of kool-aid. Sad.

Truly, I'm done talking with any of you.
If anyone wants to have a grown up conversation where you aren't slinging insults and calling people shitty and small simply because they want a better rate for a loan because they were responsible...then we can continue.

But this is complete BS. People putting words in my mouth that were never said.
I guarantee that, if this was done to you, you're argue just as hard. Call it a "tantrum," if you want. But I was defending my point of view.

[san antonio spurs]

OK. I did NOT have a problem getting a loan. I want a better rate.
And NO...I did NOT buy a house I couldn't afford. It's well within my means.

You said "Just recently, I was looking for a house, and it was EXTREMELY tough to get a loan." That's what I based my comments on.

[SpursFanFirst]

What an awful way to live: wrapped up in what other people have, what other people are doing or getting. That's elementary school stuff: she got the bigger cookie or the fuller glass of kool-aid. Sad.

And this isn't about cookies or kool-aid. you're being ridiculous. When the difference is possibly hundreds of dollars a month, you're damn straight I want the rate my neighbor has.

[SpursFanFirst]

You said "Just recently, I was looking for a house, and it was EXTREMELY tough to get a loan." That's what I based my comments on.

It IS tough to get a loan right now...but mostly because you're expected to out a sizeable down payment.
I can understand that for people who have had problems making payments in the past and have a bad credit score...but for someone who has never been late or missed a payment, and for someone with a near perfect credit score...I should at least be able to get better rates.
Isn't that supposed to be one of the perks of having good credit?

[san antonio spurs]

It IS tough to get a loan right now...but mostly because you're expected to out a sizeable down payment.
I can understand that for people who have had problems making payments in the past and have a bad credit score...but for someone who has never been late or missed a payment, and for someone with a near perfect credit score...I should at least be able to get better rates.
Isn't that supposed to be one of the perks of having good credit?
Having a great credit helps getting a loan faster with little to no downpayment. The rate is negociated based on other factors.

[ChuckD]

And this isn't about cookies or kool-aid. you're being ridiculous. When the difference is possibly hundreds of dollars a month, you're damn straight I want the rate my neighbor has.

Your neighbor got a rate below 6% on a 30 year note?

Or is this just another lie to get people to feel sorry for you, like "I can't get a loan" when you already have one at a great interest rate...

[Anti.Hero]

Buy it, and rent it back to him.

[SpursFanFirst]

Your problem of getting loan is not even a problem, just a lack of creativity. There are plenty of desperate sellers that would be willing to pay your down payment just to get rid of that house... especially if they have equity built up in that home. Talk to any seasoned sales agent and explain your situation and he should have no problem working some creative financing for you:toast There are other legal ways also.

:lol I didn't try those avenues!
I decided to take my place off the market and just stay put for now.
It ended up being a good decision.

[SpursFanFirst]

Having a great credit helps getting a loan faster with little to no downpayment. The rate is negociated based on other factors.


So, right now...with the market being the way it is...how would someone with good or excellent credit go about getting a better rate?

[SpursFanFirst]

Your neighbor got a rate below 6% on a 30 year note?

Or is this just another lie to get people to feel sorry for you, like "I can't get a loan" when you already have one at a great interest rate...

It was a hypothetical...

:lol and a LIE to get people to feel sorry for me?
I don't need you or anyone to feel sorry for me.
And what are you talking about...lies?
I haven't lied in here.

[san antonio spurs]

So, right now...with the market being the way it is...how would someone with good or excellent credit go about getting a better rate?

Like I said, the rate offered by other banks or the rate offered to other customers especially those bailed out might have higher influence on your rate than your credit score.

[SpursFanFirst]

OK...REAL...SLOWLY...FOR...THE...JERKS...WHO...KEE P...TRYING...TO...MIX...UP...WHAT...I'M...SAYING.. .

I currently own a place. My rate is 6%. This is what I was using to answer the OP's question.

I put it on the market in the hopes of getting something more permanent...something I could live in for years to come since I've decided to stay in town.

Let's recap: my place....on the market....I was looking for something else.


OK...so, I was looking for something else, which would've required a new loan...

Yes? We're all together now?

While looking for a new loan, I realized that my excellent credit rating didn't do much more than approving me for a loan. It didn't help get me a lower rate.

recap: Current home...current loan = 6%...WAS on the market...excellent credit rating didn't help land better loan rate...

With the market being as slow as it is, I decided to take my place off the market and wait it out.

I'm not asking for anyone's sympathy. In fact, I couldn't care less what any of you jerks think of me.
I was simply responding to the OP's question.
If you don't like my answer, and you want to continue being an ass, find someone else to bother.

[SpursFanFirst]

Like I said, the rate offered by other banks or the rate offered to other customers especially those bailed out might have higher influence on your rate than your credit score.


well, that sucks considering how hard I've worked, but whatever.
It's got to get better at some point.

[cool hand]

I would simply ask for a better deal myself. In my view, intelligent people don't worry about what others have or get. To do so isn't cool.

two-party dick sucker......your party fucked shit up. so if I were you I would just shut up.

[CubanMustGo]

Want a better rate? Find a better place to get a loan. My CU is offering 15-year loans at 4.7% with 0 pts, 4.4% with 1 pt.

[Clandestino]

Also, we don't have to worry about people letting houses go into disrepair in our neighborhood. if a neighbor or renter doesn't take care of it, the HOA pays for it and bills homeowner. If they don't pay we put a lien and/or foreclose ourself. Its already happened when people tried to test us.

[SpursFanFirst]

Want a better rate? Find a better place to get a loan. My CU is offering 15-year loans at 4.7% with 0 pts, 4.4% with 1 pt.

That's awesome!
15-year loans typically have a better rate.
I have a couple more things to pay off, and then I'll go gangbusters on my house...that will include getting a 15-year loan.

[SnakeBoy]

That's awesome!
15-year loans typically have a better rate.
I have a couple more things to pay off, and then I'll go gangbusters on my house...that will include getting a 15-year loan.

With or without a better rate just plan a path to get 100% debt free. My wife and I will be there in just a few months after paying (literally) for the mistakes of our youth. It's hard to get there, you have to give up alot but life becomes much better when you don't have anything hanging over your head. And when you have more money you just start making more money. I'm no economist so I won't attempt to say why that is, it just works out that way.

We didn't follow his ideas exactly but check out Dave Ramsey's plan to debt free living for ideas.

http://www.daveramsey.com/

One thing I totally agree with him on...


Debt is not a tool; it is a method to make banks wealthy, not you.

[SpursFanFirst]

With or without a better rate just plan a path to get 100% debt free. My wife and I will be there in just a few months after paying (literally) for the mistakes of our youth. It's hard to get there, you have to give up alot but life becomes much better when you don't have anything hanging over your head. And when you have more money you just start making more money. I'm no economist so I won't attempt to say why that is, it just works out that way.

We didn't follow his ideas exactly but check out Dave Ramsey's plan to debt free living for ideas.

http://www.daveramsey.com/

One thing I totally agree with him on...


:tu I LOVE Dave Ramsey!
My entire family is on his plan!

I figure I need another year or so before I can start doing the 6-month emergency savings plan...and then my house.
That will be such an amazing feeling!

Congrats definitely go out to you and your wife. I'm sure you've had some rough moments when you've had to give stuff up, but it sounds like you're starting to benefit from it.

[SnakeBoy]

Yeah he's good. The main thing I did differently was I worked on paying down debt's as much as I could but focused more on the emergency fund first. Even though it cost me more in interest in the short run it was better for us because when we were throwing everything at debt then something would always come up that required us to go back to borrowing. So it was two steps forward, one step back. Once we had enough on hand to really take care of any emergencies then it was all forward walking.

[SpursFanFirst]

Yeah he's good. The main thing I did differently was I worked on paying down debt's as much as I could but focused more on the emergency fund first. Even though it cost me more in interest in the short run it was better for us because when we were throwing everything at debt then something would always come up that required us to go back to borrowing. So it was two steps forward, one step back. Once we had enough on hand to really take care of any emergencies then it was all forward walking.


Oh yeah...I did that a lot for a while. I have a couple of credit cards (store cards that get discounts)...I know it's a big no-no on his program, but I never carry a balance.
But yes, it can, at times, be like what you just said...two steps forward, one step back - because, even though I have the money to cover the things I buy on those cards...if I didn't have the cards, that money would be in savings. Yeah...something like that.
I've really tried to bring that to a halt now.

I have my initial emergency fund in the bank.

The toughest part for me has been not taking a trip this year! I'm definitely feeling that one!

[SnakeBoy]

Oh I still use a credit card all the time for convenience. I have all my bills (phone, electric, etc.) paid automatically with it. I just pay the balance every month. It's not debt if you don't carry a balance.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Good question, difficult situation. Your question betrays your typical right-wing, punitive, fuck-'em-all-to-hell "values".

Would your rather have your neighbor renting somewhere, maybe homeless on the street, with their ex-house shuttered up, with the lender-owner under-maintaining it, and dragging down further your already-dropping property valuation, which is exactly what is happening in many neighborhoods, even gated McMansion neighborhoods?

I would rather they didn't borrow six times their yearly income and think it'll be okay because they'll flip their house for a six figure profit anyway.

Most of them are fucking idiots who borrowed too much and there should be a penalty for that. I don't see anywhere in the Constitution where it says the government has to cover up all of its citizens fuck ups.

This country is going to go the way of the dodo bird if we keep going down this path of no one having to be responsible for their decisions because the government will just pick up the tab.

[bobbyjoe]

So, it's not OK to be pissed that irresponsible people are getting the breaks, while the responsible ones are being told, "Sorry, but we can't help you?"

It's ridiculous.

It's fine and understandable but understand that if you're neighbor's house becomes a foreclosure, gets beaten up and run down, then trades on the market for .65 to .70 cents on the dollar, that lowers the property value of your home as well.

I would think your primary concern would be the impact the housing crisis and excess supply of homes in the market would have on the value of your home, not whether your neighbor is getting bailed out or not. If your home value is your main concern, this plan, even though arguably unfair, minimizes the erosion of the vaule of your home.

Remember, the actions of the government have now socialized the risk of these bad loans. So if these mortgages end in default and foreclosure, we all are sharing the cost, every taxpayer amongst us.

What's fair and what's practical arent' always the same.

[Supergirl]

Why does it have to be a competition?

[The Reckoning]

Why does it have to be a competition?

because without competition, capitalism wouldnt exist

[fyatuk]

Will you be pissed if your neighbor who is about to get foreclosed on gets a new interest rate a point or two lower than yours???

Not in the least.

My brother recently had his house foreclosed on because the mortgage company was unwilling to work with him in a weird situation. He actually lost his house in his divorce, but his ex-wife decided to abandon the house and not tell anyone for several months. When he found out, he tried to get the mortgage company to transfer the mortgage to his name and let him start with a clean slate on the payments. They foreclosed on him while still discussing whether they would do it or not.

It's better to work with people than just foreclose all the houses. We don't need to flood the market with empty homes.

[Supergirl]

because without competition, capitalism wouldnt exist

That's a common misperception of capitalism - that somehow the market will just cease to exist if there are regulations put into place. And yet, throughout history, and in other nations, there are capitalist economies that are surviving despite restrictions.

It doesn't directly affect ME or MY MORTGAGE whether my neighbor gets his house foreclosed on, or whether he gets a super low rate for re-financing. Therefore, I can simply be happy that the person in the initial scenario is no longer homeless and got a good deal, and hope they don't blow their opportunity.

Muhammed Yunus writes very effectively about the concept of "social business" in Creating a World Without Poverty - utilizing the merits of capitalism (having businesses that are self-sustaining) but which are not "profit-maximizing" because they are instead focused on solving social problems, like poverty and hunger.

We don't need billions of dollars. No one does. No corporation does. But everyone has a right to basic human needs (food, a home, health care).

[SnakeBoy]

Muhammed Yunus writes very effectively about the concept of "social business" in Creating a World Without Poverty - utilizing the merits of capitalism (having businesses that are self-sustaining) but which are not "profit-maximizing" because they are instead focused on solving social problems, like poverty and hunger.

We don't need billions of dollars. No one does. No corporation does. But everyone has a right to basic human needs (food, a home, health care).

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. Sounded great but didn't work out too well in practice.

[The Reckoning]

ok...whenever you see a car commercial, what is the number one reason they use for you to buy from them. "because our prices are lower than the other guys"
if insurance companies werent competing with each other, insurance rates would be outrageous - same with banks. healthy competition means healthy economy, and for the most part it has greatly improved our standard of living since the 1950s. bargaining, as in this case asking for a better rate, puts pressure on business to ease down the costs. its like voting in the economy - it may not seem much when you initially do it, but on a wide scale it makes a difference

[fyatuk]

Yes, I'd rather be shortsighted and petty and let him get foreclosed on thereby driving down the values of the homes in my neighborhood.

Great thread.

You say that like it's absolutely a bad thing for everyone. In my situation (I own my home and I have no plans to move, ever if I have my way, and even if I do, I won't be selling this one), lower property values is a boon by reducing my property taxes and making some other things much more affordable (certain insurance policies, etc).

The big thing for me will be what the value is in 40 years when I retire.

[MannyIsGod]

This thread shows how few people understand this crisis. And to be fair, I think the number of people who actually understand it is extremely small. I don't get all the details of the financial market but I think after reading a shit ton about it I've gotten the gist of what is going on.

If I owned a home and was responsible with everything, how could I not be upset if my neighbor who was not was the exact opposite was about to get a better rate as a result of a government bailout? That means my tax dollars were being used to provide an irresponsible buyer with a better deal than what I got. In addition, if I wasn't a home owner but was going to be in the market for one in the near future how could I not be upset that I was getting fucked twice? First by my tax dollars basically paying for someone else's home and 2nd by lowering the amount of foreclosed properties on the market which in turn raised the price I was going to pay for my home?

It isn't as simple as saying intelligent people don't worry about their neighbor when their neighbor is reaping the benefits from the situation while the responsible buyer is not. Intelligent people actually DO focus on shit like this. Rich Dad, Poor Dad anyone?

[Das Texan]

Ya needless to say...I'm pissed.


I'd like to get a fucking break in some way, shape or fashion for a change.


Pay my fucking mortgage and pay my neighbor's mortgage too. How awesome!

[MannyIsGod]

That's a common misperception of capitalism - that somehow the market will just cease to exist if there are regulations put into place. And yet, throughout history, and in other nations, there are capitalist economies that are surviving despite restrictions.

It doesn't directly affect ME or MY MORTGAGE whether my neighbor gets his house foreclosed on, or whether he gets a super low rate for re-financing. Therefore, I can simply be happy that the person in the initial scenario is no longer homeless and got a good deal, and hope they don't blow their opportunity.

Muhammed Yunus writes very effectively about the concept of "social business" in Creating a World Without Poverty - utilizing the merits of capitalism (having businesses that are self-sustaining) but which are not "profit-maximizing" because they are instead focused on solving social problems, like poverty and hunger.

We don't need billions of dollars. No one does. No corporation does. But everyone has a right to basic human needs (food, a home, health care).

Ugh, I have so many issues with your post. There are so many inaccurate points in it I honestly don't know where to begin. I dont' believe I've ever read anything about markets stopping outside of capitalism. Markets exsist under many systems. Your red herring in your first paragraph is just flat out false and poor.

Your 2nd paragraph is absolutely false. How the hell can you think it doesn't affect you directly when your neighbors house gets foreclosed on? We're not talking about a random guy going to a bank and getting a loan at a low rate. Do you honestly believe that someone who can't pay their mortgage to the point that they're facing foreclosure is going to be able to walk into a bank and get it refinanced at a lower rate? Of course not! The only way they're going to get a lower rate is by a government backed loan through a bailout which means that MY tax dollars are going to back their loan because they are in a house they shouldn't be in to begin with.

BEING IN A FUCKING HOUSE YOU CAN'T AFFORD IS NOT A RIGHT AND HAVING ME PAY FOR IT SURE AS HELL IS NOT A RIGHT.

So now because of all this irresponsible home buying loans aren't being given out nearly as easily so its much harder for a home owner to get refinanced at a lower rate. The risk all over the board is now higher so the standards for those loser rates are raised. Do you see how this directly effects us ALL?

I do not need you telling me what I need and what I don't need. You have absolutely not right to impose an artificial ceiling on my earnings or the earnings of any corporation. Who is to decide what we need and what is a right? Why do you get the ultimate say on this? What if it is my opinion that I should have to opportunity to establish my families future which does take a billion dollars and that is MY right?

[bobbyjoe]

You say that like it's absolutely a bad thing for everyone. In my situation (I own my home and I have no plans to move, ever if I have my way, and even if I do, I won't be selling this one), lower property values is a boon by reducing my property taxes and making some other things much more affordable (certain insurance policies, etc).

The big thing for me will be what the value is in 40 years when I retire.

The thing is, most Americans these days live in their primary residence on average 5-7 years before moving.

I'm sure many felt the way you did, that there's no way they would ever move. Things happen and plans change. Divorces, job relocations, etc.

For most Americans, their home represents a substantial percentage of their net worth. You want to see the value maximized because you never know when plans will change and you may want to sell or when you may need to tap into your home's equity (for example, a medical emergency in your family). You may one day want to start a business in which case a higher home value = a higher net worth = a stronger personal balance sheet to show prospective lenders.

[SnakeBoy]

You may one day want to start a business in which case a higher home value = a higher net worth = a stronger personal balance sheet to show prospective lenders.

I don't think you can use your home to secure a business loan since the bank isn't allowed to take your home if you can't pay back the business loan.

[boutons_]

"was about to get a better rate as a result of a government bailout"

really? that remains extremely hypothetical right now, as Paulson saves the skin of his buddies Elite Old Boys on the lender side first and foremost, with no definite plan to assist mortgage holders. The capitalists will get the benefit of off-loading $1T of shit debt paper to US taxpayers, while keeping the debt that is not at risk.

I read a funny simile where it's like Paulson wandering past all the high-quality goods in a luxury store, out the back door, and dumpster-diving to buy the garbage.

[MannyIsGod]

No shit its a hypothetical Boutons but wtf do you think the OP was referring to? The magic bad credit near foreclosure rate reduction refinance special?

[SpursFanFirst]

This thread shows how few people understand this crisis. And to be fair, I think the number of people who actually understand it is extremely small. I don't get all the details of the financial market but I think after reading a shit ton about it I've gotten the gist of what is going on.

If I owned a home and was responsible with everything, how could I not be upset if my neighbor who was not was the exact opposite was about to get a better rate as a result of a government bailout? That means my tax dollars were being used to provide an irresponsible buyer with a better deal than what I got. In addition, if I wasn't a home owner but was going to be in the market for one in the near future how could I not be upset that I was getting fucked twice? First by my tax dollars basically paying for someone else's home and 2nd by lowering the amount of foreclosed properties on the market which in turn raised the price I was going to pay for my home?

It isn't as simple as saying intelligent people don't worry about their neighbor when their neighbor is reaping the benefits from the situation while the responsible buyer is not. Intelligent people actually DO focus on shit like this. Rich Dad, Poor Dad anyone?

T-H-A-N-K Y-O-U! This is exactly what I've been saying!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Muhammed Yunus writes very effectively about the concept of "social business" in Creating a World Without Poverty - utilizing the merits of capitalism (having businesses that are self-sustaining) but which are not "profit-maximizing" because they are instead focused on solving social problems, like poverty and hunger.

We don't need billions of dollars. No one does. No corporation does. But everyone has a right to basic human needs (food, a home, health care).

There will always be poverty in the world, because there will always be socialist programs that discourage the lazy from bettering themselves, and there will always be corruption, and there will always be countries that have limited if any resources available for an economy.

Everyone should have the opportunity to make what they want of their life. But I shouldn't be on the hook (or any other taxpayer) for you or anyone else being an idiot and buying too much house and signing on a loan they couldn't afford.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Manny is on fire on this thread. Good takes, bro. LMAO at boutons. We should just call this topic that boutons doesn't know shit about #291,203.

[Anti.Hero]

It all comes down to watching your own ass. Stay out of stupid debt, don't get caught up in possessions, and have a long-term plan.

I guarantee you, those who have done this are about to seriously clean up and be able to retire once we bounce back out of this.

Or if it all goes to hell, you will have a much better chance at survival.

[xrayzebra]

Good question, difficult situation. Your question betrays your typical right-wing, punitive, fuck-'em-all-to-hell "values".

Would your rather have your neighbor renting somewhere, maybe homeless on the street, with their ex-house shuttered up, with the lender-owner under-maintaining it, and dragging down further your already-dropping property valuation, which is exactly what is happening in many neighborhoods, even gated McMansion neighborhoods?

My question to you boutons. If they cant afford to make their mortgage
payments and do get a lower rate of say one or two points. Where are
they going to get the money to maintain their property.

Home ownership is more than making payments each month. Other
things need attention. You know like painting, fixing screens, yard
maintenance, broken windows.

I really don't want someone in the neighborhood who doesn't maintain
their property. Do you?

[xrayzebra]

There wasn't a "tantrum" until people like you started attacking me (and putting words in my mouth) because I have a problem with having near perfect credit and not being able to get a better rate, while a neighbor with financial problems gets a better rate.


What was really galling when this type of situation happened back in the
80's was people were foreclosed on when the S&L thing came along and
RTC had the homes and almost gave them away to people who couldn't
afford them. Those that been paying on the house for years and one of
either the husband or wife lost their job and wham, bam, out on the
street with them. The poor got the house and trashed them in many
cases or I am guessing, resold them for a profit.

[spurster]

If I owned a home and was responsible with everything, how could I not be upset if my neighbor who was not was the exact opposite was about to get a better rate as a result of a government bailout? That means my tax dollars were being used to provide an irresponsible buyer with a better deal than what I got. In addition, if I wasn't a home owner but was going to be in the market for one in the near future how could I not be upset that I was getting fucked twice? First by my tax dollars basically paying for someone else's home and 2nd by lowering the amount of foreclosed properties on the market which in turn raised the price I was going to pay for my home?


If you owned a home, you would want prices higher so your home was worth more. Your passion got a little ahead of your logic here.

[MannyIsGod]

If you owned a home, you would want prices higher so your home was worth more. Your passion got a little ahead of your logic here.

Read it again.

[Clandestino]

If you owned a home, you would want prices higher so your home was worth more. Your passion got a little ahead of your logic here.

it depends. if you were selling, you'd want the value to go up. if you planned to live in the neighborhood for a long time, you'd want it to stay stable so your property taxes wouldn't rise.

[spurster]

Ok, I admit to messing up.

[bobbyjoe]

I don't think you can use your home to secure a business loan since the bank isn't allowed to take your home if you can't pay back the business loan.

I'm not talking about using your house as collateral to obtain a business loan.

If you go to the bank and want to get a loan to start up a new business venture, one of the first things they will ask you for is a personal financial statement.

The more equity you have in your home, the higher your net worth, and thus the stronger balance sheet you can show to maximize your chances at obtaining credit.

Even though they can't take your home if things go bad, banks do take some comfort in the fact that if things start to go downhilll for your business, you have some home equity you could potentially tap into to invest into the business.