Social Security > Wall Street

[Nbadan]

You pukes who have vocally supported the privatization of Social Security need to start apologizing to those of us who told ya that it was a bad, bad idea...now we are seeing just how bad of an idea it was....

Keep Wall Street out of the retirement business
By Chris Farrell



Remember the Bush Administration's push to partially privatize Social Security? The privatization advocates warned that insolvency loomed unless dramatic changes were made to the system. Social Security was also labeled a terrible investment. The Bush team's argument: Let people invest a portion of their payroll tax money with the financial wizards of Wall Street in an account reminiscent of a 401(k). Workers would get a higher rate of return on their Social Security money, and the economy would benefit from a higher rate of savings.

"We heard the fear that Social Security will go bankrupt and the solution is privatize it," says Zvi Bodie, a finance professor at Boston University. "Yeah, right! It was a self-serving proposal from industry" ...

Question is, ... should Wall Street manage any of our long-term retirement savings funds? Is the 401(k) plan, which has become the main retirement savings vehicle for the American worker over the past three decades, a mistake? The case for rethinking the 401(k) as a pillar of retirement savings is compelling ...

Wall Street doesn't do well by the average worker. The standard advice that individuals fare best when they turn over their money to professional money managers is wrong. It's a bromide guaranteed to lose individuals money, with much scholarly evidence that actively managed mutual funds systematically underperform passively constructed index funds ...

MSNbC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26793542/#storyContinued)

How many people would have been completely wiped out by the current financial crisis? What would they live on?

[cool hand]

yeah, why can't we save social security as fast as we saved BANKERS.

[Tully365]

Now it is true that I believe this country is following a dangerous trend when it permits too great a degree of centralization of governmental functions. I oppose this--in some instances the fight is a rather desperate one. But to attain any success it is quite clear that the Federal government cannot avoid or escape responsibilities which the mass of the people firmly believe should be undertaken by it. The political processes of our country are such that if a rule of reason is not applied in this effort, we will lose everything--even to a possible and drastic change in the Constitution. This is what I mean by my constant insistence upon "moderation" in government. Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.

Dwight Eisenhower, 1954

http://www.eisenhowermemorial.org/presidential-papers/first-term/documents/1147.cfm

[boutons_]

"why can't we save social security as fast as we saved BANKERS."

s/s is solvent until 2047 or thereabouts.

the s/s fear mongering by Repugs is just another one of their lies, to sucker citizens into privatizing s/s.

[Clandestino]

privatize social security. you can invest where you want.

dan, do you have any investments??? i bet you keep all your money in your bombshelter.

[Nbadan]

I've posted before....I keep all my money in land and water rights

[Clandestino]

I've posted before....I keep all my money in land and water rights

great diversification

[Nbadan]

always invest in things that they don't make any more of......

[cool hand]

privatize social security. you can invest where you want.

dan, do you have any investments??? i bet you keep all your money in your bombshelter.



I think Lehman, AIG, Bear Sterns are great places to put money.

[ducks]

why save social security
people who are 30 should not rely on that when they reach retirement
if you are dumb enough to think it will be only source for retirement
then you deserve to be broke

[ducks]

I think Lehman, AIG, Bear Sterns are great places to put money.

it should be YOUR CHOICE NOT THE GOVERMENTS CHOICE

[ducks]

always invest in things that they don't make any more of......

like mantle baseball cards

[ducks]

I've posted before....I keep all my money in land and water rights

where in the usa or overseas?

[ducks]

"why can't we save social security as fast as we saved BANKERS."

s/s is solvent until 2047 or thereabouts.

the s/s fear mongering by Repugs is just another one of their lies, to sucker citizens into privatizing s/s.

hummmmmmmmm


makes alot of sence
what donkeys do not make sence that is why that do not want to privatizing s/s

[Anti.Hero]

Dan this makes no sense. I know plenty of people who have lost a lot in the market, but still made a lot to retire on FROM the market. Many people will make A LOT from the market in the future.

Why not have the option to privatize a portion of your social security? Let the people choose. The people who would choose to, are not even planning on DEPENDING on social security. Why not let them salvage a respectable return and take the risk?

Or, let us youngins opt out of it all together and take our chances. The government can just print money for unlucky/undisciplined old people like they do for everything else.

[ducks]

lot of people made alot of money
all the .coms from the stockmarket

[fyatuk]

"why can't we save social security as fast as we saved BANKERS."

s/s is solvent until 2047 or thereabouts.

the s/s fear mongering by Repugs is just another one of their lies, to sucker citizens into privatizing s/s.

Depends on what you look at. That's when the Trust is supposed to be empty. In about 10 years or so, the SST is supposed to be needed to be tapped, but currently, thanks to Clinton and Gore, there is no real money in social security. It's all treasury bonds from loaning the government General Account money from the SST. Since that's the case, the SST would need to cash in the bonds, but with our government running at a rather large deficit right now, that could be a bad combination resulting in further weakening of the dollar, etc.

If we get to producing a surplus before the crossover point, it's no big deal. If not, it could turn into a very big deal. And no, you can't really compare previous cases of hitting a crossover point, since at those points, the Trust was real money and not an accounting figure.

[SnakeBoy]

the Trust was real money

Still is real money. It's in a lock box. It's true, I heard it, it's in a lock box.

[Clandestino]

SS is a pay as you go system. We pay our money to the people retired now. More people are retiring than ever before in history. The current system won't work unless they raise taxes or lower benefits. it is doomed.

[2centsworth]

including the great depression and the most current events wall street is still averaging over 10% per year. For those that need their money within 5 years should have had very little in stocks.

[SnakeBoy]

The only hope for SS is to ban abortion and contraceptives for a decade. Or kill off the baby boomers.

[Clandestino]

including the great depression and the most current events wall street is still averaging over 10% per year. For those that need their money within 5 years should have had very little in stocks.


yeah, that is a bullshit return.

i'd rather give my money to the government. they know what is best for me.

[spurster]

The only hope for SS is to ban abortion and contraceptives for a decade. Or kill off the baby boomers.

You could let some immigrants stay.

[Nbadan]

Dan this makes no sense. I know plenty of people who have lost a lot in the market, but still made a lot to retire on FROM the market. Many people will make A LOT from the market in the future.

Why not have the option to privatize a portion of your social security? Let the people choose. The people who would choose to, are not even planning on DEPENDING on social security. Why not let them salvage a respectable return and take the risk?

Or, let us youngins opt out of it all together and take our chances. The government can just print money for unlucky/undisciplined old people like they do for everything else.

This isn't your dad's stock-market....as events in the past week have shown us, nobody is minding the store anymore so there is considerable risk for catastrophic losses....Social Security was never supposed to be a retirement plan but a social safety net of last resort....you can make your measly contribution to the social security fund and also fund your own retirement via 401K, Roth IRA or other investment vehicle....when you contribute to social security your money automatically doubles because your employer has to match your contribution...what private investment doubles your money from day one?

Also, all this talk about there not being any money in the Social security trust fund is just that talk....what is in the trust fund is government bonds and certificates backed by the ability of the U.S. government to pay it's debt...if they were to fail to pay this money back the dollar would collapse as would the equity markets and we would all be in the same boat whether you donated to the Social Security trust fund or not....

[fyatuk]

SS is a pay as you go system. We pay our money to the people retired now. More people are retiring than ever before in history. The current system won't work unless they raise taxes or lower benefits. it is doomed.

Semi-true. That's the theory behind it, but in most of it's history, SS has provided a surplus (it's had a deficit in only 13 years, mostly in the late 70s and early 80s) which is accounted for separately than the general fund. Until the 90's under Clinton this was kept completely separate and not touched except to handle deficits of SS itself, but Clinton signed legislation allowing the government to borrow from the SS Trust to pay into the general fund (one of the reasons he could balance the budget) turning the trust into Treasury Bonds earning 3% interest at the same time.

The problem right now is the Baby Boom generation about to retire. The sudden jump in retirees is going to stress that kind of system which is why many people want to fundamentally change the system.

[Clandestino]

Semi-true. That's the theory behind it, but in most of it's history, SS has provided a surplus (it's had a deficit in only 13 years, mostly in the late 70s and early 80s) which is accounted for separately than the general fund. Until the 90's under Clinton this was kept completely separate and not touched except to handle deficits of SS itself, but Clinton signed legislation allowing the government to borrow from the SS Trust to pay into the general fund (one of the reasons he could balance the budget) turning the trust into Treasury Bonds earning 3% interest at the same time.

The problem right now is the Baby Boom generation about to retire. The sudden jump in retirees is going to stress that kind of system which is why many people want to fundamentally change the system.

right, currently more goes in than goes out, BUT that is going to reverse in the near future.

[Clandestino]

This isn't your dad's stock-market....as events in the past week have shown us, nobody is minding the store anymore so there is considerable risk for catastrophic losses....Social Security was never supposed to be a retirement plan but a social safety net of last resort....you can make your measly contribution to the social security fund and also fund your own retirement via 401K, Roth IRA or other investment vehicle....when you contribute to social security your money automatically doubles because your employer has to match your contribution...what private investment doubles your money from day one?

Also, all this talk about there not being any money in the Social security trust fund is just that talk....what is in the trust fund is government bonds and certificates backed by the ability of the U.S. government to pay it's debt...if they were to fail to pay this money back the dollar would collapse as would the equity markets and we would all be in the same boat whether you donated to the Social Security trust fund or not....

that is not how it works. your money doesn't double per se. youre paying for someone else. they aren't earmarking for you personally like a private investment vehicle would.

dan, you hate the government, think they are always trying to pull off big conspiracies, stick their hand in too much and now you want them handling your retirement? :nope

[101A]

You pukes who have vocally supported the privatization of Social Security need to start apologizing to those of us who told ya that it was a bad, bad idea...now we are seeing just how bad of an idea it was....

Keep Wall Street out of the retirement business
By Chris Farrell



MSNbC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26793542/#storyContinued)

How many people would have been completely wiped out by the current financial crisis? What would they live on?

I have put less money into my 401K than into SS during my working career.

If I was 65 today; 2/3 of my retirement income would come from my 401k.

If I could opt out of SS RIGHT NOW and surrender ALL of my rights to a SS check after 65 - but be able to take the THIRTEEN FUCKING PERCENT of my salary that goes into with each paycheck - I'd take that deal; and write a check to Uncle Sam on the day I retire for half of whatever is in there to pay for other people's retirements. I'd come out WAY ahead.

[fyatuk]

If I could opt out of SS RIGHT NOW and surrender ALL of my rights to a SS check after 65 - but be able to take the THIRTEEN FUCKING PERCENT of my salary that goes into with each paycheck - I'd take that deal; and write a check to Uncle Sam on the day I retire for half of whatever is in there to pay for other people's retirements. I'd come out WAY ahead.

Uhh, it's only 6.5% of your salary. 13% of your payroll figure, yes, but only 6.5% of your salary and paycheck.

Well, unless you own your own business, then you have to pay the entire 13%. Forgot about that for a second.