Spot Number 38 - Top 50 Spurs

[timvp]

SpursTalk's Top 50 Spurs
1. Tim Duncan
2. David Robinson
3. George Gervin
4. Gregg Popovich
5. Angelo Drossos
6. Manu Ginobili
7. Tony Parker
8. Sean Elliott
9. James Silas
10. Bruce Bowen
11. Larry Kenon
12. Avery Johnson
13. Alvin Robertson
14. Johnny Moore
15. RC Buford
16. Artis Gilmore
17. Peter Holt
18. Mike Mitchell
19. Bob Bass
20. Malik Rose
21. Robert Horry
22. Red McCombs
23. Doug Moe
24. Terry Cummings
25. Mario Elie
26. Willie Anderson
27. Billy Paultz
28. Robert McDermott
29. Stephen Jackson
30. Mark Olberding
31. Stan Albeck
32. Brent Barry
33. Mike Budenholzer
34. Swen Nater
35. Larry Brown
36. Rod Strickland
37. Michael Finley

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To pass the time until the start of preseason, let's see how SpursTalk.com ranks the Top 50 Spurs. Those eligible for the list include all players, coaches and owners. I don't want to define "top" too narrowly, but I think the best way to do it would be to think of the list as a list of the 50 most influential people who have helped make the Spurs one of the most successful franchises in the history of sport.

For more information on what we are doing, check out this thread (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103061).

In this thread, we will vote for spot number 38. Please place your vote. If you will, also explain in this thread why you voted how you did.

Thanks.



P.S.

Poll options listed in alphabetical order. If you want to vote for someone not on the list, post in the thread and I'll add the person.

Voting will end 2AM CST Tuesday morning.

Please vote only once.

[timvp]

Bob Hill
Hill was the coach Gregg Popovich hired when he was named the GM of the Spurs. Hill led the Spurs to a 62-20 record in his first year as coach and the team made it to the Western Conference Finals before losing against the Houston Rockets in the 1994-95 season. The next year the Spurs went 59-23. After beginning the 1996-97 season at 3-15, Hill was fired. His winning percentage of .681 is the highest in franchise history, while his win total of 124 ranks him sixth.

Chuck Person
Person played in 222 regular season games in his four years in San Antonio. He missed the entire 1996-97 due to injury - in the three other years the Spurs averaged 59 wins per season. He averaged 9.7 points and 3.9 rebounds in 25.3 minutes per game, while shooting 41.4% from the floor and 38.6% from beyond the three-point arc. In the 1994-95 season, Person hit 172 three-pointers to set a franchise record. He topped that number in the 1995-96 season with 190 three-pointers. Those two marks remain the two highest marks for three-pointers made in a single season in Spurs history. In the playoffs with the Spurs, Person averaged 7.3 points per game on 41.6% shooting from the field and 39.4% from beyond the arc.

Coby Dietrick
Spent six years with the Spurs, three in the ABA and three in the NBA. All told, he played 484 games for the Spurs and the San Antonio averaged 48.3 wins per year during his six-year career. Dietrick averaged 6.9 points, 5.1 rebounds and 2.4 assists in 21.6 minutes per game. In the playoffs, he averaged 7.9 points per game and raised his field goal percentage substantially (53.6% in his Spurs playoff career compared to his regular season percentage of 46.7%).

Dale Ellis
Ellis spent two seasons with the Spurs, the 1992-93 season and the 1993-94 season. In those two seasons, the Spurs won 49 and 55 games, respectively. Ellis averaged 15.9 points and 3.6 rebounds in 33.5 minutes per game in those two season, while shooting 49.7% from the field, 39.7% from the three-point line and 78.9% from the free throw line. Ellis set the Spurs franchise record with 119 three-pointers in the 1992-93 season and then bettered it the next season with 131 makes. In his two years in the playoffs with the Spurs, his averaged fell across the board – 11.9 points on 43.6% field goal percentage and 30.6% three-point percentage.

Dave Corzine
From 1980 to 1982, Corzine played two seasons with the Spurs and never missed a game. In those 164 games, he averaged 10.3 points, 7.7 rebounds and 1.4 blocks in 25.3 minutes per game, while shooting 50.3% from the field. In his two seasons in San Antonio, the Spurs won 52 games in 1980-81 and 48 games in 1981-82. Corzine during the playoffs averaged 11.6 points, 8.3 rebounds and 1.1 blocks in 26.2 minutes per game on 47.2% shooting.

Dennis Rodman
Played for the Spurs in 1993-94 and 1994-95. The Spurs won 55 and 62 games in those two years, respectively. Rodman averaged 5.6 points and 17.1 rebounds per game in a total of 128 regular season games, while shooting 55.1% from the field. In his Spurs playoff career, he averaged 8.8 points and 15 rebounds per game on 53.3% shooting.

Gene Banks
In his four year career with the Spurs, he played 323 of a possible 328 games. During those four years, the Spurs averaged 44.8 win per season. Picked in the second round of the 1981 draft, Banks averaged 11.8 points, 6.3 rebounds and 2.8 assists, while shooting 54.4% from the field. After his career with the Spurs, spent two years with the Bulls. At 27, he went overseas and played in Italy and Israel.

Hank Egan
When Pop played for the United States Air Force Academy, Egan was an assistant coach. Pop later became an assistant coach for six years for Egan when he became the head coach at Air Force, which was Pop's first coaching experience. Egan was the lead assistant coach for the Spurs for eight years -- from the 1994-95 season until the 2001-02 season.

Jaren Jackson
Jackson spent four seasons with the Spurs, from 1997 to 2001. In the 226 games he played, he averaged 7 points per game on 38.7% shooting from the field and 36.5% shooting from beyond the three-point line. His career peeked in the 1999 playoffs when he averaged 8.2 points and connected on 31 of the team’s 70 total made three-pointers during the championship run. In Jackson’s four seasons in San Antonio, the Spurs won an average of 57.3 games and took home the 1999 championship.

Mike Gale
Spent parts of six seasons in San Antonio and played 414 games with the Spurs. In those six years, the Spurs averaged 46 wins per season. Averaged 7.9 points, 4.5 assists and 1.9 steals per game, while shooting 46.7% from the field. In playoff games with the Spurs, his scoring average jumped up to 9.2 points per game but his field goal percentage dropped to 44%.

PJ Carlesimo
Carlesimo was the lead assistant coach from the 2002-03 season to the 2006-07 season. In those five years, the Spurs won three championships. During his stint as lead assistant coach, the Spurs were 297-113 for a winning percentage of .724.

Steve Kerr
Kerr played four complete seasons with the Spurs, from 1998 to 2001 and then came back for the 2002-03 season after spending a year in Portland. In the regular season, Kerr averaged 3.6 points and 0.9 assists per game in 12.6 minutes per game, while shooting 41.8% from the field and 39.4% from the three-point line. In the playoffs while with the Spurs, Kerr averaged 2.9 points on 41.2% shooting from the field and 35.7% shooting from beyond the three-point line. In his four seasons in San Antonio, the Spurs averaged 58.3 wins per season and won the championship in 1999 and 2003.

Vinny Del Negro
In his seven years with the Spurs, San Antonio averaged 49.7 wins and Del Negro played 433 games. He averaged 11.2 points and 3.6 assists, while shooting 48.2% from the field, 36.7% from three-point land and 82.7% from the line. In his 46 career playoff games with the Spurs, his scoring average dipped to 9.5 points and his shooting fell to 45%.






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I'm leaning toward Jaren Jackson or Hank Egan here.

[sendman]

Timvp is biased towards Rasho Nesterovic, so he decided not to mention him among his candidates.

I decided to do it for him:

In 10 years as a pro baller Rasho never missed playoffs (even he was playing for Raptors and Wolves) His stats are comperable with almost any of Timvps candidates (at least with Spurs). He is and he always was a reliable role player, a teammate that everybody likes to have on his team. He knows his strengths and limitations and knows how to use them to benefit his team. He is an ultimate team player.

Oh....and he has TWO RINGS to show for his effort.

[timvp]

Oh....and he has TWO RINGS to show for his effort.

:reading

[Obstructed_View]

Oh....and he has TWO RINGS to show for his effort.

His one ring was won while he was on the bench by his teammates, which goes to show for his effort.

[sendman]

His one ring was won while he was on the bench by his teammates, which goes to show for his effort.
Oh I forgot, regular season and his starting for bigger part of that season doesn't count.

Sorry, stupid me for thinking that you can't get to play-offs without regular season.

[Obstructed_View]

Oh I forgot, regular season and his starting for bigger part of that season doesn't count.

Sorry, stupid me for thinking that you can't get to play-offs without regular season.

No, stupid you for saying he had two rings and for suggesting he contributed during the playoff run. If the things you are talking about count, then Rasho's behind all those other guys that Timvp mentioned.

If you're going to put out bullshit to make a case for a guy, don't get butt hurt when someone points it out.

[Kona]

Kerr.

[MrChug]

Fuck Dennis Rodman. He was a novelty while he was here but didn't really help us accomplish shit. He only helped win for Detroit. No other team. He was an enthusiastic, hard-playing maniac for that team. Not a self absorbed, dress-wearin, herpes-spreadin, nut kickin, callin 5-0 a pussy, CANCER.

Fuck Dennis Rodman. I voted for someone else, because he was my favorite but Jaren's got as good a case as anyone.

[KEDA]

Rasho does not deserve to be on this list, period.

[baseline bum]

Fuck Dennis Rodman. Fuck Del Negro. I'd rather vote for Rasho because at least he contributed nothing instead of the negative contribution those two fucks gave us.

[baseline bum]

Rasho does not deserve to be on this list, period.

Neither does Rodman.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I think I'm going JJ because of his contribution to the Spurs championship run. He did everything SJax did for the Spurs except unlike SJax, JJ cashed his chips after that playoffs ended.

[Dex]

Back on the Jaren Jackson bandwagon now.

At this point, it's just a mission to keep Nesterovic off of the list. :lol (sorry angel)

[The Truth #6]

Walter Berry put up some of the best stats of any of the remaining players.

[Spooky]

Jaren Jackson

[Obstructed_View]

Fuck Dennis Rodman. Fuck Del Negro. I'd rather vote for Rasho because at least he contributed nothing instead of the negative contribution those two fucks gave us.

Except that he didn't give any effort in the playoffs which prompted Pop to go with smallball which cost them the '06 title.

Hey, it's really easy to find a way to blame a single guy for playoff failure! No wonder you do it so much.

[MajorMike]

I stopped looking at these threads when the Barry made this list and Kerr still hadn't. This fact alone completely invalidates the entire list.

[Spurs Brazil]

JJ.

He had a fantastic playoffs in 99. Too bad he got fat after he got the contract after 99 season

[The Truth #6]

I stopped looking at these threads when the Barry made this list and Kerr still hadn't. This fact alone completely invalidates the entire list.

Part of the reason Kerr's dramatic 3 pointers versus Dallas were so memorable is the fact that he was almost completely useless to us for a good stretch of the season. The guy wasn't playing at all. It was an act of desperation that he went in to game. Of course it's great that he hit the shots but it's not like he was contributing on any consistent basis at all, unlike Barry who was almost always capable of producing something but didn't get more minutes because he was the odd man out once Pop fell in love with Finley.

[timvp]

I stopped looking at these threads when the Barry made this list and Kerr still hadn't. This fact alone completely invalidates the entire list.

Barry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kerr

I'm not even sure Kerr deserves to make the list. He had half a decent regular season and about three good quarters in the playoffs. He'll probably make it at some point but he'll make it more on his legend than anything else.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'm excited that it's almost Edgar time!!

[baseline bum]

Except that he didn't give any effort in the playoffs which prompted Pop to go with smallball which cost them the '06 title.

Hey, it's really easy to find a way to blame a single guy for playoff failure! No wonder you do it so much.

Rodman, Robinson, Del Negro, and Elliott all deserve blame for 95. Too many Spurs fans only want to blame Robinson.

[Spurtacus]

Steve Kerr again.

[sendman]

No, stupid you for saying he had two rings and for suggesting he contributed during the playoff run. If the things you are talking about count, then Rasho's behind all those other guys that Timvp mentioned.

If you're going to put out bullshit to make a case for a guy, don't get butt hurt when someone points it out.
I dare you to quote me where I was suggesting that Rasho contributed in some all star way during the playoff run. He was a role player and Pop decided his role.
Did you even read what I wrote? Functionally illiterate much?
Read it again...think about it...come back latter.

Oh, and about that butt hurt thing...It's time for you to let go.

Rasho was a starting Center on Championship team and nobody can take that away from him no matter how hard you try.

[Sense]

I dare you to quote me where I was suggesting that Rasho contributed in some all star way during the playoff run. He was a role player and Pop decided his role.
Did you even read what I wrote? Functionally illiterate much?
Read it again...think about it...come back latter.

Oh, and about that butt hurt thing...It's time for you to let go.

Rasho was a starting Center on Championship team and nobody can take that away from him no matter how hard you try.

You mean before Nazr replaced him for the playoffs?

[alamo50]

This is getting worse than pathetic by now.

[SpurSupremacist]

You guys must be really, really bored.

[MajorMike]

Barry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kerr


What did Steve Kerr do to ensure the Spurs won a Ring?

What did Brent Barry do to ensure the Spurs won a Ring?

Thanks for playing, enjoy your invalid list.

[Obstructed_View]

I dare you to quote me where I was suggesting that Rasho contributed in some all star way during the playoff run. He was a role player and Pop decided his role.
Did you even read what I wrote? Functionally illiterate much?
Read it again...think about it...come back latter.

Oh, and about that butt hurt thing...It's time for you to let go.

Rasho was a starting Center on Championship team and nobody can take that away from him no matter how hard you try.

Fact check much? Rasho sprained his ankle and never got his job back, even when he was healthy. He started zero games and put up 26 minutes total in the finals. Nazr was the starting center on that team.

[kobyz]

how the hell PJ Carlesimo still not chosen?!! he had a significance part in 3 championships

[sendman]

Fact check much?

San Antonio
Season 2003-04:
Games played: 82, Games started 82
Season 2004-05:
Games played: 70, Games started 70
Season 2005-06:
Games played: 80, Games started 51

Total games played (regular season):232,
Total games started (regular season) 203

Playoffs:
Total games played:34
Total games started: 11

To sum it up for you.

In the time he spent with Spurs he played total of 266 games
In the time he spent with the Spurs he STARTED 214 GAMES.

That is a starting Center in my book.

Now if you don't like the FACTS...go cry in the corner.

[Obstructed_View]

San Antonio
Season 2003-04:
Games played: 82, Games started 82
Season 2004-05:
Games played: 70, Games started 70
Season 2005-06:
Games played: 80, Games started 51

Total games played (regular season):232,
Total games started (regular season) 203

Playoffs:
Total games played:34
Total games started: 11

To sum it up for you.

In the time he spent with Spurs he played total of 266 games
In the time he spent with the Spurs he STARTED 214 GAMES.

That is a starting Center in my book.

Now if you don't like the FACTS...go cry in the corner.
Your book is clearly flawed.

I don't mind facts, it's just when they are incorrect or used to try to prove an irrelevant point that I take issue. Rasho was indeed a starting center for the vast majority of his time as a Spur, but he didn't start for the Spurs in the playoff run that led to the championship, only for the ones that didn't. That means he's not the starting center for a championship team. Period. Since that is the factual basis for your support of Rasho, you lose. Period. He started 88 percent of the regular season games, and 32 percent of the playoff games. He started one playoff game in the last two years he was with the Spurs, and zero during the year they won the championship.

[sendman]

Your book is clearly flawed.

I don't mind facts, it's just when they are incorrect or used to try to prove an irrelevant point that I take issue. Rasho was indeed a starting center for the vast majority of his time as a Spur, but he didn't start for the Spurs in the playoff run that led to the championship, only for the ones that didn't. That means he's not the starting center for a championship team. Period. Since that is the factual basis for your support of Rasho, you lose. Period. He started 88 percent of the regular season games, and 32 percent of the playoff games. He started one playoff game in the last two years he was with the Spurs, and zero during the year they won the championship.
Your logic is brilliant. You agree that he was a starting Center for the Spurs for three years. But that becomes somehow irrelevant, because he didn't play as much in the playoffs?
Look dude, smarter people than me said: "Even the longest journey starts with the first step". I hope you are smart enough to figure this one out.
I also hope you are smart enough to understand that basketball is a team game with coach deciding roles for his player (going small for example). There will always be leaders and water carriers. As I said in my original post, Rasho was a role player and a very good one, for that matter. It's not like Spurs excelled since he left. Oberto may be slightly better offensive player, as for defense...it's not even close.
And if you can't understand what I mean, than that is your problem and not Rashos. Again, if somebody started 214 games out of 266 in 3 seasons with the Spurs, that must be an indication of something. (can you say STARTING CENTER?)

[Obstructed_View]

Your logic is brilliant. You agree that he was a starting Center for the Spurs for three years. But that becomes somehow irrelevant, because he didn't play as much in the playoffs?
Look dude, smarter people than me said: "Even the longest journey starts with the first step". I hope you are smart enough to figure this one out.
I also hope you are smart enough to understand that basketball is a team game with coach deciding roles for his player (going small for example). There will always be leaders and water carriers. As I said in my original post, Rasho was a role player and a very good one, for that matter. It's not like Spurs excelled since he left. Oberto may be slightly better offensive player, as for defense...it's not even close.
And if you can't understand what I mean, than that is your problem and not Rashos. Again, if somebody started 214 games out of 266 in 3 seasons with the Spurs, that must be an indication of something. (can you say STARTING CENTER?)

Who's the one with a reading comprehension problem? I clearly stated two posts ago that Rasho was the starting center for the Spurs for most of his time with the team, but correctly pointed out that he was zero factor in the playoff run that resulted in the championship, despite your attempt to imply otherwise in order to draw votes from people too lazy to check your facts. Nowhere have I said that Rasho wasn't a great team defender, but the fact is that he became so ineffective that Pop decided that Finley and Horry were better options on the front line than Rasho, so much so that he put Oberto as a rookie ahead of him in the rotation during the playoffs. The fact is that Rasho couldn't get off the bench for his last two postseasons as a Spur. The fact is that they won a championship the year he was replaced as the starter.

Nazr Mohammed was the starting center for a championship team. So was Oberto. The best you can say about Rasho is that he was the starting center during the regular season for a defending champion that failed to repeat. Throw numbers around all you like, but as soon as you start making shit up you're going to get called for it.