Terms on Bailout Reached. Unbelievable

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080922/financial_meltdown.html


Under other additions the Democrats are asking to the administration package, according to a draft of the plan obtained by The Associated Press:

-- Judges could rewrite mortgages to lower bankrupt homeowners' monthly payments.


Good :tu



-- Companies that unloaded their bad assets on the government in the massive rescue would have to limit their executives' pay packages and agree to revoke any bonuses awarded based on bogus claims.


Good :tu



The proposal by Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., the Banking Committee chairman, would give the government broad power to buy up virtually any kind of bad asset -- including credit card debt or car loans -- from any financial institution in the U.S. or abroad in order to stabilize markets.

Fucking joke.

Worldwide? And what happens when the US goes bankrupt? It won't matter.

Car loans and credit cards? This is fucking bullshit. Piece of shit Democrat.

[Anti.Hero]

Why the fuck is Dodd getting to call shots.

What a joke. That joke is the new America.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You must have missed the rest of the G7 laughing at us today...


Europe and Japan turned a cold shoulder on Monday toward a American request that they bail out banks in the manner now being proposed in the United States.
===
But the G-7 also indicated that countries were free to go their own way in grappling with what has become the worst financial crisis since the 1930s.

“Each of us remains committed to taking further action, individually and collectively as needed, consistent with our respective domestic circumstances,” the G-7 statement said.

That appeared to paper over the obvious cracks between the United States and countries in Europe and Asia, whose economies and banking systems are generally in far better shape than the United States. The Treasury secretary, Henry M. Paulson Jr., said Sunday that he would “aggressively” seek plans from other countries to buy up illiquid assets linked to America’s mortgage market.

German officials explicitly ruled out any German version of Washington’s plan, which is expected to cost American taxpayers about $700 billion.

British officials also made clear that they would not create a fund to buy bad assets, although Alistair Darling, the chancellor of the Exchequer, did promise new rules.
===
The Japanese finance minister, Bunmei Ibuki, said after the announcement that he saw no need for Japan to set up an American-style rescue scheme to help its own banks offload bad assets, Reuters reported from Tokyo.

The German finance minister, Peer Steinbrück, said, “None of the other six G-7 members will adopt a similar program to the U.S.”

Apart from a manifest lack of sympathy for a crisis they view as created by American banks and regulators, European governments are also constrained by rules within the 27-nation European Union that limit budget deficits and public debt.

I don't understand why they would want to buy our worthless paper, WTF?

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

You think its DODD that wants to bail out foreign banks?

oh shit

:lmao :lmao

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Why the fuck is Dodd getting to call shots.

What a joke. That joke is the new America.

And you know Obama and Pelosi had a hand in it (along with the rest of the Democraptic leadership in Congress).

[ChumpDumper]

Well, bad debt is bad debt. I guess it just depends on how much of the total bad debt needs to be bought up to get financial institutions lending again.

[MannyIsGod]

LOL Dude, Dodd and the Democrats are the ones providing the best leadership here and its not even close. The Republicans want a blank check to do whatever the hell they want with no oversight and no justification.

The Dems have added some pork to the bill in the form of bailing out mainstreet, but the fact of the matter is that they're the ones implimenting the the nessecary oversight and regulations in this bill.

Why is Dodd getting to call the shots? Because the administration can't lead worth a damn.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh, and if you really think its the Democrats that are pushing for foreign banks included just tell me outright so I can avoid wasting my time in this thread.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I just saw your note Manny. The foreign bank bailout is clearly a Paulson/Bush move. Covering the credit card debt and car loans is a Democratic special though.

Time to go buy a Beamer, fuck paying for it I can just charge it to the American taxpayer :D :bang

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

LOL Dude, Dodd and the Democrats are the ones providing the best leadership here and its not even close. The Republicans want a blank check to do whatever the hell they want with no oversight and no justification.

The Dems have added some pork to the bill in the form of bailing out mainstreet, but the fact of the matter is that they're the ones implimenting the the nessecary oversight and regulations in this bill.

Why is Dodd getting to call the shots? Because the administration can't lead worth a damn.

McCain came out saying more oversight is needed as well. Dodd's the chair of the banking committee. Pretty ironic he's getting to call the shots as his committee has been asleep at the wheel with him in charge, err getting bribed by Fannie/Freddie.

[MannyIsGod]

McCain came out saying more oversight is needed as well. Dodd's the chair of the banking committee. Pretty ironic he's getting to call the shots as his committee has been asleep at the wheel with him in charge, err getting bribed by Fannie/Freddie.

There is more than enough blame to go around to every part involved. I'm not interested in applying it to any one particular party because the truth is they were both fucking stupid and they're both in the pocket of Wall St.

But on this bailout the Democrats are so far ahead of the Republicans its not even funny. The current Republican party is just plain shitty. Maybe they can regroup after the Bush administration but man they're really dissapointing right now.

[boutons_]

"Piece of shit Democrat."

the Dodd item was already in Paulson's document, that broadend over the weekend. Dodd is not responsible for it, not did he create it.

piece of shit Aggie

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

"Piece of shit Democrat."

the Dodd item was already in Paulson's document, that broadend over the weekend. Dodd is not responsible for it, not did he create it.

piece of shit Aggie

Link?

These were all new items from the first Paulson document released, at least the version I saw. And it's the version you posted here on this very forum you dumbass. :lol

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105301


LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL FOR TREASURY AUTHORITY
TO PURCHASE MORTGAGE-RELATED ASSETS


Section 1. Short Title.

This Act may be cited as ____________________.

Sec. 2. Purchases of Mortgage-Related Assets.

(a) Authority to Purchase.--The Secretary is authorized to purchase, and to make and fund commitments to purchase, on such terms and conditions as determined by the Secretary, mortgage-related assets from any financial institution having its headquarters in the United States.

(b) Necessary Actions.--The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without limitation:

(1) appointing such employees as may be required to carry out the authorities in this Act and defining their duties;

(2) entering into contracts, including contracts for services authorized by section 3109 of title 5, United States Code, without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts;

(3) designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them;

(4) establishing vehicles that are authorized, subject to supervision by the Secretary, to purchase mortgage-related assets and issue obligations; and

(5) issuing such regulations and other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to define terms or carry out the authorities of this Act.

Sec. 3. Considerations.

In exercising the authorities granted in this Act, the Secretary shall take into consideration means for--

(1) providing stability or preventing disruption to the financial markets or banking system; and
(2) protecting the taxpayer. Holy fucking shit!! These assholes have great sense of humor

Sec. 4. Reports to Congress.

Within three months of the first exercise of the authority granted in section 2(a), and semiannually thereafter, the Secretary shall report to the Committees on the Budget, Financial Services, and Ways and Means of the House of Representatives and the Committees on the Budget, Finance, and Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs of the Senate with respect to the authorities exercised under this Act and the considerations required by section 3.

Sec. 5. Rights; Management; Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.

(a) Exercise of Rights.--The Secretary may, at any time, exercise any rights received in connection with mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act.

(b) Management of Mortgage-Related Assets.--The Secretary shall have authority to manage mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act, including revenues and portfolio risks therefrom.

(c) Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.--The Secretary may, at any time, upon terms and conditions and at prices determined by the Secretary, sell, or enter into securities loans, repurchase transactions or other financial transactions in regard to, any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act.

(d) Application of Sunset to Mortgage-Related Assets.--The authority of the Secretary to hold any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act before the termination date in section 9, or to purchase or fund the purchase of a mortgage-related asset under a commitment entered into before the termination date in section 9, is not subject to the provisions of section 9.

Sec. 6. Maximum Amount of Authorized Purchases.

The Secretary’s authority to purchase mortgage-related assets under this Act shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time

Sec. 7. Funding.

For the purpose of the authorities granted in this Act, and for the costs of administering those authorities, the Secretary may use the proceeds of the sale of any securities issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, and the purposes for which securities may be issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, are extended to include actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses. Any funds expended for actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses, shall be deemed appropriated at the time of such expenditure.

Sec. 8. Review.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Sec. 9. Termination of Authority.

The authorities under this Act, with the exception of authorities granted in sections 2(b)(5), 5 and 7, shall terminate two years from the date of enactment of this Act.

Sec. 10. Increase in Statutory Limit on the Public Debt.

Subsection (b) of section 3101 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by striking out the dollar limitation contained in such subsection and inserting in lieu thereof $11,315,000,000,000.

Sec. 11. Credit Reform.

The costs of purchases of mortgage-related assets made under section 2(a) of this Act shall be determined as provided under the Federal Credit Reform Act of 1990, as applicable.

Sec. 12. Definitions.

For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall apply:

(1) Mortgage-Related Assets.--The term “mortgage-related assets” means residential or commercial mortgages and any securities, obligations, or other instruments that are based on or related to such mortgages, that in each case was originated or issued on or before September 17, 2008.

(2) Secretary.--The term “Secretary” means the Secretary of the Treasury.

(3) United States.--The term “United States” means the States, territories, and possessions of the United States and the District of Columbia.

===============

So Paulson can do what the fuck he wants, untouchable by Congress or Judicial branches, both of who are rendered totally powerless, just a dickhead, Black Addington the neo-cunts, conservatives have wanted forever.

Bascially $1T wealth from taxpayers into the hands of capitalists, to buy debt toilet paper which isn't worthy to wipe your ass with.

The capitalists are going to come out on top. One has to wonder if this hasn't been the plan of the "elites" all along. Fuck the hated govt into debt hole that it will never escape from, then slash & burn Medicare, Medicaid, discretionary spending, while pushing the defense budget towards $1T to fight imaginary threats.

Show me in there where it says anything about anything other than mortgage related assets that would specify they could cover car, credit debt.

That, or STFU.

[boutons_]

check later versions, dumbass, Paulson changed it all weekend, broadening it to buy any fucking thing, any fucking place.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

check later versions, dumbass, Paulson changed it all weekend, broadening it to buy any fucking thing, any fucking place.

Yeah, once he and the Dems and Republicans sat down at the table and starting talking terms. Dodd's even on the record as backing this, dumbass.

[KenMcCoy]

Credit cards and car loans!!! This is seriously ridiculous.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

We are witnessing how empires fall.

[KenMcCoy]

^^ I guess thats a good way to look at it.

[spurster]

Currently, the Yahoo article http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080922/financial_meltdown.html reads



In one expansion of its original proposal, the administration is asking for broad power to buy up virtually any kind of bad asset -- including credit card debt or car loans -- from any financial institution in the U.S. or abroad in order to stabilize markets.

Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., the Banking Committee chairman, has proposed granting that request; Frank said he was working to limit the bailout to mortgage-related investments.


From the NYT http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/business/23paulson.html



...

The Senate Democrats' proposals includes two bold provisions. One would grant the Treasury "contingent shares" of stock in any financial institution that wants to sell bad debt to the government; the other would grant bankruptcy judges the authority to modify the terms of primary mortgages, a step aimed at helping homeowners at risk of foreclosure.

The bankruptcy provision is staunchly opposed by the banking, lending and securities industries and by many Republicans in Congress, but Democrats insist that it is one of the few mechanisms to provide direct assistance to homeowners caught in the foreclosure crisis.

The contingent shares would give taxpayers an equity stake in companies seeking help through the rescue program, potentially allowing the government not only to recoup however much of the $700 billion it spends on bad debt, but also to profit should the financial firms prosper in years ahead. The legislation would require the value of the contingent shares to equal the value of the assets purchased by the government.

The 44-page Senate proposal, pulled together by Senator Christopher J. Dodd, Democrat of Connecticut and the chairman of the banking committee, would require the Treasury to run the rescue plan through a new "Office of Financial Stability" to be headed by an assistant treasury secretary. It would also establish an "Emergency Oversight Board" to monitor the bailout effort, made up of the Fed Chairman; the chairman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation; the chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission; and two non-government employees with "financial expertise" in the public and private sectors, one each appointed by the majority and minority leadership in Congress.

In addition, the Senate proposal would require monthly reports to Congress, rather than the biannual reports that would be required under the Bush administration’s proposal.

...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Credit cards and car loans!!! This is seriously ridiculous.

And student loans.

Oh, and there's this:


Sec. 6. Maximum Amount of Authorized Purchases. The Secretarys authority to purchase mortgage-related assets under this Act shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time

This isn't a one time 700 billion shot. They could buy 700 billion, write it off, then buy another 700 billion.

We (the common Americans) are fucked.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The Senate Democrats' proposals includes two bold provisions. One would grant the Treasury "contingent shares" of stock in any financial institution that wants to sell bad debt to the government; the other would grant bankruptcy judges the authority to modify the terms of primary mortgages, a step aimed at helping homeowners at risk of foreclosure.

The bankruptcy provision is staunchly opposed by the banking, lending and securities industries and by many Republicans in Congress, but Democrats insist that it is one of the few mechanisms to provide direct assistance to homeowners caught in the foreclosure crisis.

The contingent shares would give taxpayers an equity stake in companies seeking help through the rescue program, potentially allowing the government not only to recoup however much of the $700 billion it spends on bad debt, but also to profit should the financial firms prosper in years ahead. The legislation would require the value of the contingent shares to equal the value of the assets purchased by the government.

The 44-page Senate proposal, pulled together by Senator Christopher J. Dodd, Democrat of Connecticut and the chairman of the banking committee, would require the Treasury to run the rescue plan through a new "Office of Financial Stability" to be headed by an assistant treasury secretary. It would also establish an "Emergency Oversight Board" to monitor the bailout effort, made up of the Fed Chairman; the chairman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation; the chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission; and two non-government employees with "financial expertise" in the public and private sectors, one each appointed by the majority and minority leadership in Congress.

In addition, the Senate proposal would require monthly reports to Congress, rather than the biannual reports that would be required under the Bush administration’s proposal.


I have to say, good job for this, Dems.

But the amount of power being proposed to give to Paulson is criminal. Yeah, give the former head of Goldman Sachs, who helped put us in this situation, the power of God in our financial markets. Fuck no.


“That doesn’t mean we’ll go all the way there, or it doesn’t mean it will stop there and we won’t ask for more,” Mr. Paulson said Sunday on the CBS program, “Face the Nation.” “What we need is something that is big enough to get the job done. We’ll ask for what we think is a right amount to give us plenty of flexibility.”

Translation: we're saying 700 billion, but it's going to be a shitload more, but we don't want to admit that now because we'll get lynched.

:td

[Cant_Be_Faded]

So does this mean I can stop paying my student loans and this bill will erase the debt for me?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

More


Democrats appeared to agree on the broad parameters of a rescue plan. Among the key points:

-A rescue package. The Treasury could purchase up to $700 billion in mortgage-backed assets from troubled firms. While the source of the funding isn't yet clear, the Treasury wants the U.S. debt limit, now about $9.7 trillion, to increase to $11.3 trillion. Any profits from later sales of troubled assets would be returned to the Treasury.

-Tougher supervision. The administration's proposal says that the Treasury secretary's decisions "may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."

Dodd wants the bailout operation supervised by a five-member board consisting of the Fed chairman, the chairman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., the Securities and Exchange Commission chairman and two public members, one appointed by leaders of each major political party.

Frank said any oversight board would be independent and would have investigative power but not operational authority. He said the Bush administration had agreed in concept, but the administration was said to be balking at the board's broad authority.

-Foreclosure assistance. The federal government would gain more power to keep people in their homes; one way would be to let bankruptcy judges lower homeowners' monthly payments. "We'll now own a lot of these mortgages," Frank said.

Reid explained that wealthier homeowners often find it easy to seek mortgage assistance from bankruptcy judges, but that those who aren't wealthy cannot.

"That makes no sense, and we should change it," he said, by giving bankruptcy courts the authority to "reach mutually beneficial arrangements to allow families to keep their homes and prevent more foreclosures."

(EDITORS: END OPTIONAL TRIM)

The administration's initial opposition on this point was said to be lessening.

-Executive compensation. Democrats want the federal government to restrict big salaries and severance packages for executives at troubled firms helped by the federal bailout. "If we have bought your assets," Frank said, "no golden parachutes while we own your paper."

While the administration has resisted this, some Republicans appeared willing to compromise. Sen. Mel Martinez, R-Fla., said he thought some constraints on executive compensation were appropriate and that it would be difficult to explain opposing such limits to voters.

-Paying for the plan. "Democrats believe that in exchange for shouldering the enormous burden of the Bush plan, the taxpayers should keep any future economic rewards," Reid said. Democrats are pushing for an equity ownership stake for taxpayers in any firm that gets bailout help, so that taxpayers would share in any future firm profits.

That means, Reid added, that "this plan should not permit taxpayer money to purchase an asset at an inflated price exclusively for the benefit of private shareholders."

The Bush administration was resisting the equity-stake proposition.

Bush and his pals can kiss my ass.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

So does this mean I can stop paying my student loans and this bill will erase the debt for me?

I was wondering the same thing. I'll have a lot more money for hookers and blow if I don't have to pay off my truck and my student loan. Time to go start shopping for a million dollar home, think I'm covered there too :lol

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Goddamn right the taxpayer should get their fair share of profits.

Anybody opposing that can't honestly look any taxpayer with a straight face.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The Bush administration was resisting the equity-stake proposition.


Paulson's plan is largely a bail out for his silver spoon buddies on Wall Street. If they can't socialize the losses and keep any future profits, then this whole thing won't work out like they wanted. Accordingly Paulson is holding firm on this point. May he rot in hell and die a painful, slow death

fify.

[George Gervin's Afro]

And you know Obama and Pelosi had a hand in it (along with the rest of the Democraptic leadership in Congress).

Are the dems still trying to buy votes?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Are the dems still trying to buy votes?

The Dems have been on the record for insisting on the mortgage assistance, loan assistance, etc.

They're all complicit. That said, Bush and Paulson can go fuck themselves on resisting the equity stake thing.

[ChumpDumper]

And student loans.

Oh, and there's this:



This isn't a one time 700 billion shot. They could buy 700 billion, write it off, then buy another 700 billion.

We (the common Americans) are fucked.That wasn't how I read it.

I thought the total debt they could be holding at any time would be $700 billion. some of it would have to be sold before they could buy any more. I could definitely be wrong, but isn't the whole point of this to avoid writing off this debt permanently and making it tradeable again?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Better.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aZ5vL3rd6g5g


House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank said lawmakers and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson narrowed their differences on a $700 billion plan to buy bad investments and agreed the U.S. should get equity in the participating companies.

Lawmakers ``made it clear'' the U.S. should get stock warrants ``so that if the company becomes profitable, we get more than the general share for taking these risks,'' and Paulson agreed, Frank told reporters today in Washington. Negotiators support letting Treasury use the authority while Congress writes oversight rules, Frank said in a Bloomberg Television interview.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

That wasn't how I read it.

I thought the total debt they could be holding at any time would be $700 billion. some of it would have to be sold before they could buy any more. I could definitely be wrong, but isn't the whole point of this to avoid writing off this debt permanently and making it tradeable again?

I don't know, I think it's a little ambiguous, and I have to err on the side of thinking they'll do anything they can to cover the asses of their buds on Wall Street.

I hope you're right, because otherwise that provision seems pretty shitty. They could write them off, or they could just have the Treasury print more money, devalue the dollar, and attempt to inflate their way out.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't know, I think it's a little ambiguous, and I have to err on the side of thinking they'll do anything they can to cover the asses of their buds on Wall Street.

I hope you're right, because otherwise that provision seems pretty shitty. They could write them off, or they could just have the Treasury print more money, devalue the dollar, and attempt to inflate their way out.I think the limiting language was put in by the Democrats because Paulson and Bush were giving no indication that $700 B was going to be any kind of final number for a bailout amount. I heard it was a pretty arbitrary number between half a billion and a billion.

It's pretty astounding that the Bush plan could be so easily blown out of the water in terms that are fairly easily understood. Even I seem to get it.

[ElNono]

If they want more than $700 Billion, they need to go back to Congress. Basically, Congress is the only one that can increase the government debt limit.

[DarkReign]

Jesus Christ, this is just getting worse...

I think CBF nailed it with the "this is how empires fall" comment.

[Extra Stout]

What I have learned this week is that free markets exist only in theory.

We need to reestablish moral hazard. For example, whenever the taxpayers have to bail out a financial institution like this, any executives whose annual compensation exceeds one million dollars per year could be subject to life imprisonment or execution, with all of their personal and family assets immediately expropriated by the federal government and liquidated for distribution to the taxpayers.

Of course since those same people run the government and therefore control the means of coercive force, this is only possible through revolution.

[spurster]

I agree with many of the ideas proposed by the Democrats.

1. A big salary cut. I wish it was retroactive and that the government would prosecute any former execs who do not cooperate. If, as Paulson says, this would make companies reluctant to a government bailout, then the situation can't be that dire, and the government will spend less money.

2. Equity. If we, the taxpayers, bail you out, then we own you. See part 1 for reluctant companies.

3. Change bankruptcy laws. Mortgage and credit companies want a hand from the government for their debt, but treat their debtors like shit. Let bankruptcy courts have the flexibility to reorganize all the debt of people who go bankrupt, mortgages, credit card, student loans, car loans, whatever. If banks and corporations can get out their debts, why not ordinary folks as well? Also, the threat of a bankruptcy court eliminating the mortgage or other loans will make the companies negotiate for deals that people can handle.

I don't see any rational way for the government to deal with foreclosures on an individual basis. Some people were reckless, some were duped, and perhaps most are some combination of both. The government just gave away money to all of us a few months ago with not much of an effect. I think we mainly need debtors and creditors negotiating in good faith, but that won't happen if bankruptcy laws are too highly in favor of the creditor.

[DarkReign]

...this is only possible through revolution.

When and where.

[MannyIsGod]

And student loans.

Oh, and there's this:



This isn't a one time 700 billion shot. They could buy 700 billion, write it off, then buy another 700 billion.

We (the common Americans) are fucked.

I meant to put on that the number being floated isn't the cap. The longer this drags on the less I have confidence in the government fixing the problem. And even if they do its just more national debt that our generation will have to deal with at some point.

Yeah, thanks Baby Boomers. You've really left us with a shit storm.

[MannyIsGod]

Its bad. When I read about this this weekend and how close AIG nearly came to destroying us I was pretty amazed.

[MannyIsGod]

I'll post more later when I have time, but its not a pretty picture ATTM.

[johnsmith]

Yeah, thanks Baby Boomers. You've really left us with a shit storm.



You know, I've been screaming that very thing for the last 10 years of my life. The Baby Boomers are the most worthless generation in the history of the world.

[2centsworth]

I agree with many of the ideas proposed by the Democrats.

1. A big salary cut. I wish it was retroactive and that the government would prosecute any former execs who do not cooperate. If, as Paulson says, this would make companies reluctant to a government bailout, then the situation can't be that dire, and the government will spend less money.

I agree with this.



2. Equity. If we, the taxpayers, bail you out, then we own you. See part 1 for reluctant companies.

The goverment owning businesses...:nope A loan at a fair rate of return say 10-15% should do.



3. Change bankruptcy laws. Mortgage and credit companies want a hand from the government for their debt, but treat their debtors like shit. Let bankruptcy courts have the flexibility to reorganize all the debt of people who go bankrupt, mortgages, credit card, student loans, car loans, whatever. If banks and corporations can get out their debts, why not ordinary folks as well? Also, the threat of a bankruptcy court eliminating the mortgage or other loans will make the companies negotiate for deals that people can handle.

hated the recent changes in the bankruptcy laws. These companies want the government to act as bill collectors when it comes to consumers, and now as guarantors of those same debts. HELL NO!!!!!

Reform the bankruptcy laws now!!!!



I don't see any rational way for the government to deal with foreclosures on an individual basis. Some people were reckless, some were duped, and perhaps most are some combination of both. The government just gave away money to all of us a few months ago with not much of an effect. I think we mainly need debtors and creditors negotiating in good faith, but that won't happen if bankruptcy laws are too highly in favor of the creditor.

again I agree with this. government just needs to make collateralized loans to these institutions at 15 to 20 cents on the dollar and let these instituions work through their problems.

[Extra Stout]

Yeah, thanks Baby Boomers. You've really left us with a shit storm.
We'll get our revenge when we cancel their Medicare benefits.

[101A]

We'll get our revenge when we cancel their Medicare benefits.

Unfortunately, they will ALWAYS outnumber us.
:bang

[Extra Stout]

Unfortunately, they will ALWAYS outnumber us.
:bang
Do away with the whole voting thing for a while and cancel the benefits by fiat.

[Extra Stout]

A wise person once said that democracy would fail once people figure out they can vote themselves money. We're at that point.

[101A]

A wise person once said that democracy would fail once people figure out they can vote themselves money. We're at that point.


It was this guy:
http://www.roslynoxley9.com.au/images/galleries/Linda_Marrinon_June_2003/0010.jpg

Really.

[DarkReign]

A wise person once said that democracy would fail once people figure out they can vote themselves money. We're at that point.

I think that was in reference to a quote that was stated in another recent thread that went something like "...when the majority realizes they can vote themselves largesse from the treasury..." or some such.

In this particular bail-out case, it doesnt apply, IMO.

The majority isnt voting on this issue and the majority will not benefit from this either.

A very, very small minority just got the single greatest government intervention plan passed almost overnight. Corporations are realizing that if youre in the financial sector and your assets are dependant on the American people paying back the money you loaned them, you'll never fail. No matter the circumstance, no matter how much the executive took in windfall, no amount of bad policy or irresponsible behavior will allow you to fail.

They should call it "Corporate Point of No Return". To big to fail, to greedy to succeed.