Thoughts on Bailout?

[2centsworth]

What are your thoughts on the bailout?

I believe a bailout is necessary to avoid financial catastrophe. It's not a matter of good versus evil, but just a failure in the government's attempt to enter the marketplace and make home ownership more attainable. Worthy cause, but lousy implementation. People, businesses, and investments fail all the time, so hopefully we learn from our mistakes and do better next time.

[Anti.Hero]

Just more shit on a big shit pile.

[Wild Cobra]

I think its better to let everyone involved, including the stock holders to be allowed to fail. Bailout means no fear to do it again. Other companies will come in and pick up the pieces. The valid fear is that people will have a hard time getting loans. The solution then is to give the remaining financial institutes that have done right, help backing up the money the need to loan out.

It is also imperative to remove the various legislations that caused and allowed this to happen in the first place. It is total insanity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave%27s_Gourmet)[1] to consider any bailout without removing the causes.

Off topic spam follows:


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Sorry for the spam. I like Dave's products and when the word insane came to mind, so did hot sauce. It is a little known product line, but great. Remarkable flavor for being so hot. I mix Total Insanity into my salsa and other spicey food because I can never buy food and salsa hot enough.

[Thunder Dan]

I want to vote : "Yes, but I hate those greedy assholes for getting us into this mess and I think they should either a)serve jail times, b) work for minimum wage or c)pay money out of their own pockets back to the government"

[BacktoBasics]

Its a sad day when we bail richers out at the expense of the people honestly working themselves to death. You never get true reform from a semi fixed problem. Its going to have to collapse completely for real change to happen.

[Oh, Gee!!]

yes, if it means people will lose their homes if there's no bailout.

[BacktoBasics]

yes, if it means people will lose their homes if there's no bailout.
They will lose their homes regardless. This has nothing to do with keeping people in their homes. They've already set up halfassed programs for that.

[Hook Dem]

Its a sad day when we bail richers out at the expense of the people honestly working themselves to death. You never get true reform from a semi fixed problem. Its going to have to collapse completely for real change to happen.

Agreed!!!!!!!

[Anti.Hero]

Its going to have to collapse completely for real change to happen.

[Oh, Gee!!]

They will lose their homes regardless. This has nothing to do with keeping people in their homes.

then i vote no

[BacktoBasics]

then i vote nooh and you get no vote. Other more out of touch richers are the ones who get a vote.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

yes, if it means people will lose their homes if there's no bailout.

That's not going to change with this bailout. This thing is all about Wall Street.

The shitty thing is we are still going to have our recession either way. Actually I'm convinced that we were going to have a recession, but now with this bailout we're going to have another great depression.

We were going to have to go through the recession anyway. It's part of the natural cycle of a free market economy. Sort of like forest fires destroy but then give birth to new life.

But this thing is all about saving Wall Street's greedy asses.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Interesting, watching the vote right now on TV (House of Reps)

Currently:

Dems: 68 yea, 24 nay.

Repubs: 27 yeah, 38 nay.


Proud of the Republicans.

[BacktoBasics]

That's not going to change with this bailout. This thing is all about Wall Street.

The shitty thing is we are still going to have our recession either way. Actually I'm convinced that we were going to have a recession, but now with this bailout we're going to have another great depression.

We were going to have to go through the recession anyway. It's part of the natural cycle of a free market economy. Sort of like forest fires destroy but then give birth to new life.

But this thing is all about saving Wall Street's greedy asses.I couldn't agree more. Right now the banks are tightening up so much its tough to get anything done. This isn't going to change with the bailout. I'm expecting lending to be tight for at least another 2 years. No ones going to qualify to fill those empty homes.

On a brighter side if you can buy into affordable apartment housing I'd jump. Especially if its a place that skips over pulling credit for rental approvals.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

117-112 is the vote in the House right now :wow

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I couldn't agree more. Right now the banks are tightening up so much its tough to get anything done. This isn't going to change with the bailout. I'm expecting lending to be tight for at least another 2 years. No ones going to qualify to fill those empty homes.

On a brighter side if you can buy into affordable apartment housing I'd jump. Especially if its a place that skips over pulling credit for rental approvals.

Of course, if you have your financial house in order (wow, that was a lot of unintended puns...) you can get a great deal for a home. Lenders are lining up for those with excellent financial backgrounds.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

150-144. 140 votes outstanding, 68 votes needed to pass.

Damn.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I will say this... If the House doesn't pass this thing, you are going to see the greatest one day drop in the stock market ever.

This would make Black Monday look like a good day.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

:wow :wow

162 yea
164 nay

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Lots of Republicans left to go.

If every Democrat left to vote votes yea this will pass by 4 votes at this point.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

This is amazing. May be witnessing history in the next 5 minutes.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Good lord, this is going to be razor thin.

DOW is in free fall at the moment.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Yea:188---Nay:207

[Anti.Hero]

ha look at that drop

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Yea:188---Nay:207

They need 218 to pass, not going to happen.

DOW dropped 400 points in the last two minutes. Holy shit.

[Pistons < Spurs]

The DOW is down 538

[SpursFanFirst]

This isn't looking too good.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Dow:

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[Pistons < Spurs]

Nay already at 220


DOW down 600

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

That sucking sound you're hearing is Wall Street in free fall.

[BacktoBasics]

Of course, if you have your financial house in order (wow, that was a lot of unintended puns...) you can get a great deal for a home. Lenders are lining up for those with excellent financial backgrounds.
Well not entirely but for the most part thats true. They moved the prime requirements way up. This is an addition to the complete or almost complete lack of 2nd tier and subprime lending.

Whats was once 700 (prime) turned into 720 and last I checked the majority of banks moved that figure up to 740. I've been selling for over 12 years. I've seen scores above 740 9 times.....of the thousands of apps I've seen.

Even people with great credit 675 or better will see higher rates and probably be required to have some kind of down payment. What was once an affordable house may not be now. Even with the prices of homes going down.

Remember they're coming down from what was an absurdly inflated value to begin with. Not to mention the appraisals will hardly alter at all. Property tax will take the front seat on that deal. People think they're getting the deal of a lifetime but its nothing more than slightly less inflation.

Mix in the higher cost of everything around us and its just not as managable as it once was.

[Anti.Hero]

gold up $20

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Pelosi just got pantsed on national television. :wow

[Pistons < Spurs]

down 689

[SpursFanFirst]

Wow...back to square one, I guess?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Damn. Dow has gone from -100 to -700 in the last couple of minutes.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

'Cuz I'm free......... free fallin'.............. [/DOW]

[Anti.Hero]

Pelosi just got pantsed on national television. :wow

Partisan blame is more important to that bitch than common folk going broke.

[2centsworth]

I'm sure for the broke bastards on this board this is good news, because maybe people can be as broke as you.

For those of you that have any equity such as, home equity, go ahead a discount the value 30%. For those of you who have a job, don't hold your breath.

good luck all. You showed the wall street fat cats.

[SpursFanFirst]

down 689

:wow I follow CNN's money page for the stock info...apparently mine hasn't updated yet.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

They will probably try to re-vote again today. Worst case it's back to the drawing board.


Republicans: 65 yea, 133 nay. Fuck yeah!

[Pistons < Spurs]

Yea:205
Nay:228


DOW recovering a bit ... only down 495 now

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

CNBC reporting Dems pissed, expected Republicans to deliver 90 yea votes, got 65.

Suck it, Pelosi.

She stood up and launched into that partisan tirade this morning trying to twist them into going along with this, and she just got a huge middle finger from Republicans in the House.

I love those guys.

And I checked, my rep voted 'Nea'. Good job :tu

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

LOL.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/09/29/t1home.bail.mon.09.ap.jpg

[Wild Cobra]

The SEC really fucked up in changing the short selling rules last year... I wonder how much of this was a forced bear run by short sellers?

[Wild Cobra]

CNBC reporting Dems pissed, expected Republicans to deliver 90 yea votes, got 65.

Suck it, Pelosi.

She stood up and launched into that partisan tirade this morning trying to twist them into going along with this, and she just got a huge middle finger from Republicans in the House.

I love those guys.

And I checked, my rep voted 'Nea'. Good job :tu

And that's about how accurate the media is on polling data for democrats as well. If the trend continues, McCain will win by how much?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

207-226, they can still switch votes.

Republicans:

66 yeah, 132 nay.

Dems: 141 yea, 94 nay.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Oil is in free fall, under $100 a barrel now. Gold up over $20 an ounce.

This would be hilarious if I didn't have money in the market right now.

[Oh, Gee!!]

guess twocents is a dimmo-crap now.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I wish I could see Pelosi's botoxed ugly ass grill right now, that's a Mastercard ad waiting to happen.


CNBC: reporting that senior Dem staff is saying they aren't going to get the votes to pass this.

[SpursFanFirst]

:tu on oil dropping...not like it'll help us out any since gas prices are so slow to drop.

[boutons_]

yes, this whole mess is historical.

Robbery of taxpayers in broad daylight by the financial/political elite to pay for their crimes.

Saw a good analogy: Capitalists putting a gun to their own heads and threatening to pull the trigger if we don't pay.

btw, McWorse's Executive would have done exactly as dubya's, stick that up ya'll asses and cogitate on it as you plan to vote for McWorse and pitbull bitch.

As dubya said, "fool me once, shame on me, ......" he forgot the rest :lol

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

"Oh shit, we can't blame this on the Republicans, what do we do now?" [/Pelosi]

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

yes, this whole mess is historical.

Robbery of taxpayers in broad daylight by the financial/political elite to pay for their crimes.

Saw a good analogy: Capitalists putting a gun to their own heads and threatening to pull the trigger if we don't pay.

btw, McWorse's Executive would have done exactly as dubya's, stick that up ya'll asses and cogitate on it as you plan to vote for McWorse and pitbull bitch.

As dubya said, "fool me once, shame on me, ......" he forgot the rest :lol


I know you're a partisan bitch, but look at the scoreboard dipshit.

Repubs: 132 nay, 66 yea.

Dems: 141 yea, 94 nay.

McCain told the House Republicans last week he backed them in their actions.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Republicans with free market ideals digging their heels in. Team America, fuck yeah!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Republican Jeb Hensarling of Texas, a leading conservative, said the bill puts the country "on the slippery slope to socialism. If you lose your ability to fail, soon you will lose your ability to succeed."

:tu

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photo/_new/080929-house-hmed-10a.h2.jpg


Wanna get away?

http://www.vegasthesincity.com/transportation/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/southwest_airlines_logo.jpg

[boutons_]

it ain't bugaboo socialism, it's robbery.

Paulsen set the framework, and nobody had the sense and balls to change the framework to something completely different. dicking around within Paulsen's framework is playing his game. kick his corrupt, self-serving ass out of the game and start a new game.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Holding the vote open and they just had another person switch to the 'nay' vote.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Going to revote. Damn.

[SpursFanFirst]

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photo/_new/080929-house-hmed-10a.h2.jpg



http://www.vegasthesincity.com/transportation/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/southwest_airlines_logo.jpg


:lol

[Wild Cobra]

Oil is in free fall, under $100 a barrel now. Gold up over $20 an ounce.

This would be hilarious if I didn't have money in the market right now.

Well, if it's in an active 401k, just rmember, the value will recover, and right now, we are buying stocks at a lower amount per share.

That equals more new stocks in our plans!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Damn, it's someone Texas trying to motion to reconsider.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Well, if it's in an active 401k, just rmember, the value will recover, and right now, we are buying stocks at a lower amount per share.

That equals more new stocks in our plans!

I'm not even thinking about my 401k at this point.

I'm talking trading stocks.

Bill withdrawn :wow

[SpursFanFirst]

Damn, it's someone Texas trying to motion to reconsider.


He changed his mind

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

There's still a lot to play out but at this point you have to say that the Republicans have just scored some huge points for the election this fall. The people of America said no, and they listened. Dems falling over themselves to say yea (except for a few brave souls on that side of the aisle).

[Shastafarian]

I'm glad to see so many conservatives relish the crash of the American Economy. AHF, stay classy :tu

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

He changed his mind

What's weird is they hadn't closed the vote, he could have changed it without doing that.

I can only think it was a signal to some fellow Republicans trying to get them to change their votes.

[SpursFanFirst]

there are some seriously emotional calls on CSPAN right now

[Anti.Hero]

I'm glad to see so many conservatives relish the crash of the American Economy. AHF, stay classy :tu

It'll be a learning lesson for many.

[BacktoBasics]

I'm glad to see so many conservatives relish the crash of the American Economy. AHF, stay classy :tuIts likely the only thing left that could actual propel this country into better times.

[Wild Cobra]

I'm not even thinking about my 401k at this point.

I'm talking trading stocks.

Bill withdrawn :wow
Well, I'm sorry then. Do you by chance do 'bottom fishing?' I understand it better than other aspects of the market. I'm willing to pick mutual funds, but I never too the time to be confident with stocks.

[SpursFanFirst]

What's weird is they hadn't closed the vote, he could have changed it without doing that.

I can only think it was a signal to some fellow Republicans trying to get them to change their votes.

I guess I misunderstood then. I thought he decided not to change his vote because he was being forced to do it right then...he didn't have a chance to think about it more.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'm glad to see so many conservatives relish the crash of the American Economy. AHF, stay classy :tu

It won't crash. I'm sorry you don't know shit about economics. We are going to have a recession one way or another.

All this bill would have done was kick that can down the road, put more of your and my money in the pockets of the Wall Street fucks who put us into this situation anyway, and make that recession even more painful for us when it gets here.

As I said, my feelings are this country needs a recession to begin recovery anyway. This bailout would have ensured a depression. We can have our recession and get out of it without a depression if this bill isn't passed.

Add a trillion dollars in toxic debt to that recession we need to go through, and you're looking at another Great Depression.

And yeah, I'm against financial socialism and am damn proud of anyone on either side of the aisle there in the HOR who voted no today.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I guess I misunderstood then. I thought he decided not to change his vote because he was being forced to do it right then...he didn't have a chance to think about it more.

Yeah, he was basically moving that they crumble up the paper with the votes on it and start the voting over again from scratch. Basically, a re-vote.

[Thunder Dan]

we are fucked for about 6-10 years, but after that we should be sweet

[Wild Cobra]

I'm glad to see so many conservatives relish the crash of the American Economy. AHF, stay classy :tu

That's right, be a liberal lemming and choose not to understand the rammifications of passing this bill as is.

We are better of to have a recession that the depression this bill will cause.

[Shastafarian]

It won't crash. I'm sorry you don't know shit about economics. We are going to have a recession one way or another.

All this bill would have done was kick that can down the road, put more of your and my money in the pockets of the Wall Street fucks who put us into this situation anyway, and make that recession even more painful for us when it gets here.

As I said, my feelings are this country needs a recession to begin recovery anyway. This bailout would have ensured a depression. We can have our recession and get out of it without a depression if this bill isn't passed.

Add a trillion dollars in toxic debt to that recession we need to go through, and you're looking at another Great Depression.

And yeah, I'm against financial socialism and am damn proud of anyone on either side of the aisle there in the HOR who voted no today.
Where did I say I thought this was the answer? I find it troubling you're having such a good time you fuckstick.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Well, I'm sorry then. Do you by chance do 'bottom fishing?' I understand it better than other aspects of the market. I'm willing to pick mutual funds, but I never too the time to be confident with stocks.

Yeah. I've gotten into the market over the last year and made some gains, but today is a bit of a hit so far. It will go back up over time but in the short term I'd really feel better if I didn't have any money at play in the market.

[Shastafarian]

That's right, be a liberal lemming and choose not to understand the rammifications of passing this bill as is.

We are better of to have a recession that the depression this bill will cause.

Oh I'm sorry I forgot you guys majored in economics from Harvard..Yale...Youngstown State?

[Wild Cobra]

Oh I'm sorry I forgot you guys majored in economics from Harvard..Yale...Youngstown State?
Hell no. The hard knocks of real life university!

[Shastafarian]

Hell no. The hard knocks of real life university!

Yet you're so sure this thing would've failed. Why, because of your free market ideals?

[1369]

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/9/25/128668498196609430.jpg

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Where did I say I thought this was the answer? I find it troubling you're having such a good time you fuckstick.

Why shouldn't I have a good time with this?

- It was a horrible deal for American taxpayers. The only people this was going to be good for was the ones on Wall Street who got us in this mess.

- Pelosi came out this morning and talked a bunch of shit about McCain and the Republicans and how they needed to get on board the Democratic plan that her, Reid, Dodd, and Frank came up with that was so great.

She got a big fuck you by the Republicans today, and many in her own party as well. Awesome leadership there by her in her own house, look at how many Dems voted against it.

- It gives me hope for our country. Many in this country were asleep at the wheel and only could think as far as the media could tell them to think. It's clear from the last week that Americans made it crystal clear to their representatives in D.C. that they are tired of Wall Street and D.C. big players deciding the direction of this country.

I'm a student of history and the economy. Like I said, we are going to have a recession regardless. This will hasten that (assuming they don't come up with another bill), but the sooner we get it over with the sooner our country (and the world) can move on.

Our financial system has a gaping head wound, and all this bill would have done was put a butterfly bandaid on it. We still would have bled out, but the Wall Street bastards would have been sitting on a pile of gold at the end of it while the rest of us died a slow, bloody death.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Yet you're so sure this thing would've failed. Why, because of your free market ideals?

Because it does nothing to solve the problem.

Those toxic debts can't be traded for used toilet paper, yet D.C. and Wall Street are trying to convince everyone that it's worth $700 billion AND we'll make a profit :lol

[JoeChalupa]

Jim Kramer thinks it is a good thing and he said he'd invest in the plan if he could. I'm no economic genius regardless of what some of you may think.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The truth of the matter Shasta is that they will buy off enough people in the House to get this vote to go through, I'm afraid.

That, or come back with a better version of this bill (to the public's perception) that doesn't have as much bullshit in it.

I'm not holding my breathe on this being a permanent solution.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Jim Kramer thinks it is a good thing and he said he'd invest in the plan if he could. I'm no economic genius regardless of what some of you may think.

Yeah, I can't see any reason why a former Goldman Sachs guy that is still sitting on a bunch of GS stock would want to see this go through. :rolleyes

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

LMAO, Dems blaming Republicans for not delivering the votes.

Fuck them (Dems).

[Shastafarian]

Why shouldn't I have a good time with this?

- It was a horrible deal for American taxpayers. The only people this was going to be good for was the ones on Wall Street who got us in this mess.

- Pelosi came out this morning and talked a bunch of shit about McCain and the Republicans and how they needed to get on board the Democratic plan that her, Reid, Dodd, and Frank came up with that was so great.

She got a big fuck you by the Republicans today, and many in her own party as well. Awesome leadership there by her in her own house, look at how many Dems voted against it.

- It gives me hope for our country. Many in this country were asleep at the wheel and only could think as far as the media could tell them to think. It's clear from the last week that Americans made it crystal clear to their representatives in D.C. that they are tired of Wall Street and D.C. big players deciding the direction of this country.

I'm a student of history and the economy. Like I said, we are going to have a recession regardless. This will hasten that (assuming they don't come up with another bill), but the sooner we get it over with the sooner our country (and the world) can move on.

Our financial system has a gaping head wound, and all this bill would have done was put a butterfly bandaid on it. We still would have bled out, but the Wall Street bastards would have been sitting on a pile of gold at the end of it while the rest of us died a slow, bloody death.
WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT PELOSI AND PARTISAN POLITICS?!?!? She's doing what she thought was best to get the bill to pass. God you're such a fucking cuntbag. People are losing their savings right now. By the end of the week a lot of people might be broke. Yet you're loving every minute of this. Go fuck yourself.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Support the good institutions. Let the bad ones fail. viva la free market :tu

[romad_20]

I'm not happy with what the immediate results will be from this failing, but the bailout was a horrible idea from the beginning.

[Shastafarian]

I'm not happy with what the immediate results will be from this failing, but the bailout was a horrible idea from the beginning.

Probably. But the psyche of americans comes into play (something some people fail to realize) and the economy could crash as a result. A lot of people don't understand economics well enough to know whether this was a good deal or not. They see the stock market fall and they in turn take their money out of banks. Then the market falls further and so on.

[2centsworth]

I never thought I would ever say this, but today I'm switching my vote to Obama.

Republican and their class warfare bs was the final straw. Just a bunch of talk, but when it comes down to it their distorted sense of ideology is more important the common freakin sense.

I'll change my sig later.

[2centsworth]

Support the good institutions. Let the bad ones fail. viva la free market :tu


clueless.:bang

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT PELOSI AND PARTISAN POLITICS?!?!? She's doing what she thought was best to get the bill to pass. God you're such a fucking cuntbag. People are losing their savings right now. By the end of the week a lot of people might be broke. Yet you're loving every minute of this. Go fuck yourself.

No one's going to lose their savings this week, all savings are insured up to $100K, and if you've got $100K in the bank you're smart enough to not put it all in one place.

Pelosi is a bitch. I am laughing at her because her, Dodd, Frank, Paulson, and Bush all got together in a room and decided this bailout in secret. And she thought she was hot shit for coming up with a plan to fuck us all over while blaming it on the Republicans.

So you can call me partisan if you want, fine, you're been as much of a partisan bitch for the left on this forum since you joined.

[JoeChalupa]

LMAO, Dems blaming Republicans for not delivering the votes.

Fuck them (Dems).

McCain couldn't deliver?

[Wild Cobra]

Yet you're so sure this thing would've failed. Why, because of your free market ideals?
If you mean the bill, I was only sure of failure as long as it retains Pelosi's earmarks. Both sides are willing to sell our future out to their elitist friends.

If you mean that the bill will fail if implemented, yes to that too. Corporate sharks say the buyout os about double the $700 billion, or about $1.4 trillion. Short of that, the bill is a total waste of money. Then on top of that, the future will repeat without getting rid of the regulations that allowed and caused this. The free market wasn't free. Lenders were forced to make bad loans as part of community development. That, especially, needs to be removed.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I never thought I would ever say this, but today I'm switching my vote to Obama.

Republican and their class warfare bs was the final straw. Just a bunch of talk, but when it comes down to it their distorted sense of ideology is more important the common freakin sense.

I'll change my sig later.

Class warfare against the billionaires on Wall Street? Guilty as charged.

By the way, that previous post was tongue in cheek partially. There will be a new bill passed or they will get the votes for this one.

I'm just glad to see someone take a stand against all the closed door bullshit that's been going on the last week or so.

[Spurminator]

I never thought I would ever say this, but today I'm switching my vote to Obama.

Republican and their class warfare bs was the final straw. Just a bunch of talk, but when it comes down to it their distorted sense of ideology is more important the common freakin sense.

I'll change my sig later.


I don't understand how party even plays into this. Significant numbers on both sides of the aisle voted "No."

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Boehner: we could have passed this today if Pelosi wasn't such a partisan bitch this morning.

Owned. :lol

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I don't understand how party even plays into this. Significant numbers on both sides of the aisle voted "No."

Don't let the facts get in his way, he just wants to look cool taking a stand on the board.

[Shastafarian]

Boehner: we could have passed this today if Pelosi wasn't such a partisan bitch this morning.

Owned. :lol

It's not being owned. Pelosi made a big mistake. But it also means Republicans didn't vote to save anyone but themselves or their pride. That, my friend, is bullshit. It's all bullshit.

[2centsworth]

Don't let the facts get in his way, he just wants to look cool taking a stand on the board.

the response of a three year old. grow up.

[byrontx]

The Dems are screwed on this. Pelosi is horrible as a leader. Remember when Bush insisted we just had to Invade iraq, that the nation's well-being depended on it. After getting line behind the President and supporting him, even when it wasn't clear what the threat was was, they got roasted.

Kerry: "He was for it before he was against it." No credit for actually getting behind the Commander in Chief when told the nation was in peril. Instead, he got slammed. Hillary, too, paid a price.

The Dems should have proposed their own plan that did not have Bush fingerprints on it and had an open battle of ideas. Instead they allowed all this closed door debate on Bush's plan and now if it works Bush takes credit; it if fails they'll blame the dems.

[2centsworth]

I don't understand how party even plays into this. Significant numbers on both sides of the aisle voted "No."

you're never going to get a unanimous vote, but the majority of dems voted yea and the majority of reps voted nay.

that was enough for me.

What I say to the republicans is see yeah wouldn't wanna be yeah.

Can someone say LANDSLIDE!!!!!

[Wild Cobra]

WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT PELOSI AND PARTISAN POLITICS?!?!? She's doing what she thought was best to get the bill to pass. God you're such a fucking cuntbag. People are losing their savings right now. By the end of the week a lot of people might be broke. Yet you're loving every minute of this. Go fuck yourself.
If she was doing what she thought was necessary to get this passed, then she would at least remove the earmarks and pork not related to the bailout.

[KenMcCoy]

I never thought I would ever say this, but today I'm switching my vote to Obama.

Republican and their class warfare bs was the final straw. Just a bunch of talk, but when it comes down to it their distorted sense of ideology is more important the common freakin sense.

I'll change my sig later.

Disappointed 2cents...this bill does nothing but put a bandaid on the problem and extend what will be a 2 yr problem into a 10-15 yr problem. I'd rather suck it up and deal with a recession for a few years then face the inflationary problems for the next 10.

[byrontx]

Is anyone still claiming the community-development stuff as causing this? That is so Fox yesterday.

You know better. Community development did not rack up $700 billion in bad debt. If it did, in what community?

[Wild Cobra]

Disappointed 2cents...this bill does nothing but put a bandaid on the problem and extend what will be a 2 yr problem into a 10-15 yr problem. I'd rather suck it up and deal with a recession for a few years then face the inflationary problems for the next 10.

No kidding.

All this plan does is pay off one credit card with another, without having the needed cancer surgery.

Bailing out losers is the wrong way to go. We should support those who played by the rules of sanity around this and have no problems. Rewarding those who played immoral is more than a slap in the face to those who played fair. I say we loan those who played fair and are still profitable money from the government so the needed loans to run this economy reamin available. It is a low risk to lend them tax dollars rather than to those who have already failed.

[Wild Cobra]

Is anyone still claiming the community-development stuff as causing this? That is so Fox yesterday.

You know better. Community development did not rack up $700 billion in bad debt. If it did, in what community?

You're right.

What you miss on the subject is the requirements to make bad loans in the name of community development that helped cause this situation.

[MannyIsGod]

I had to stop reading halfway through this fucking thread? Suck it Pelosi? Pelosi got pantsed? K, you tell that to the people who are about to start missing payrolls and the people who are about to have their companies go under.

You go be all partisan in their fact and chear your ass off. You go cheat at the people who just took a huge hit to their pension. Go for it, you tell them "hey pelosi got it in the face".

[MannyIsGod]

I never thought I would ever say this, but today I'm switching my vote to Obama.

Republican and their class warfare bs was the final straw. Just a bunch of talk, but when it comes down to it their distorted sense of ideology is more important the common freakin sense.

I'll change my sig later.

Wow

[Shastafarian]

I had to stop reading halfway through this fucking thread? Suck it Pelosi? Pelosi got pantsed? K, you tell that to the people who are about to start missing payrolls and the people who are about to have their companies go under.

You go be all partisan in their fact and chear your ass off. You go cheat at the people who just took a huge hit to their pension. Go for it, you tell them "hey pelosi got it in the face".

Amen

[Wild Cobra]

I had to stop reading halfway through this fucking thread? Suck it Pelosi? Pelosi got pantsed? K, you tell that to the people who are about to start missing payrolls and the people who are about to have their companies go under.

You go be all partisan in their fact and chear your ass off. You go cheat at the people who just took a huge hit to their pension. Go for it, you tell them "hey pelosi got it in the face".
Consider this. The democrat plan failed. Now it's time to try the republican plan. Without a vote on theirs, who will you blame? At least if a vote is allowed on the republican plan fails too, then you can claim partisanship on both sides. Else shut the fuck up, bcause it is only partisanship on the side of the democrats.

[cool hand]

you're never going to get a unanimous vote, but the majority of dems voted yea and the majority of reps voted nay.

that was enough for me.

What I say to the republicans is see yeah wouldn't wanna be yeah.

Can someone say LANDSLIDE!!!!!



you must play the market.....go get fucked. fascist.

[1369]

I had to stop reading halfway through this fucking thread? Suck it Pelosi? Pelosi got pantsed? K, you tell that to the people who are about to start missing payrolls and the people who are about to have their companies go under.

You go be all partisan in their fact and chear your ass off. You go cheat at the people who just took a huge hit to their pension. Go for it, you tell them "hey pelosi got it in the face".

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2008/09/Jump-You-Fers.jpg

[boutons_]

kick Paulsen and his robbery plan into the toilet and listen to the economists, financial experts, etc who have many other ideas how to fix the liquidity problem.

[MannyIsGod]

Consider this. The democrat plan failed. Now it's time to try the republican plan. Without a vote on theirs, who will you blame? At least if a vote is allowed on the republican plan fails too, then you can claim partisanship on both sides. Else shut the fuck up, bcause it is only partisanship on the side of the democrats.

There will be failures today. You don't fucking get that you can't paly with the minds of people in the credit industry that way. You can't go back to the drawing board and try to craft a new fucking bill.

The Republicans have tried to pass their bill, but its fucking shit on a stick. As bad as the redistubtion to people like Acorn is, the HOUSE GOP ideas are fucking worse. WAY worse. Its ridiculous.

This is not the fucking time to play politics. The government has done a shit poor job of explaining why this shit is nessecary (hint, do you like getting a pay check and having a job?) that people don't like this plan. But the truth is not passing it is simply cutting of your nose to spite your face.


This is fucking idiocy.

[Spurminator]

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2008/09/Jump-You-Fers.jpg

Yikes.

[romad_20]

Disappointed 2cents...this bill does nothing but put a bandaid on the problem and extend what will be a 2 yr problem into a 10-15 yr problem. I'd rather suck it up and deal with a recession for a few years then face the inflationary problems for the next 10.

I agree with this. I'd rather take it the you-know-what now than deal with the debt, inflation and other things that will last much, much longer.

That being said, I'm in a position where I can withstand something like this b/c I'm not about to retire and I don't have kids.

[MannyIsGod]

FWIW, the Dems are not without blame. They can pass this without the GOP but its a horrible political move to do that because of how much it helps them. This sucks, because its going to hurt them in the congressional elections but this bill NEEDS to pass and it probably needs to pass TODAY to avoid the chain of dominos from starting to fail.

At some point those dominos won't be stopped.

[JoeChalupa]

Both parties share the blame on this issue.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Question: What sort of businesses do you suppose are going to be the least affected by this whole thing?

[MannyIsGod]

Wacovia and WaMu both were hurt by removal of deposited funds. Thats better known as a run on the bank. With the news of today's drop and the failure of the bill, I woudlnt' be suprised to see more banks have this exaserbate their problems.

Confidence is so important to this market right now, and a NO vote on this measure demoishes confidence far more than this thing never coming to a vote would have. For that, I put a huge amount of the blame on the GOP. If they never planned to pass this thing, they should have never agreeed to this shit.

[MannyIsGod]

Question: What sort of businesses do you suppose are going to be the least affected by this whole thing?
sit
Impossible to say. People are focusing on this being a banking issue, but where do many of the business in this country get their short term loans that their business needs to survive on from? Those banks. When there is no short term credit to be had, a lot of companies are not going to have teh capital on hand to do things like meet payroll. This is simply going to compound the confidence issue which is what drives the credit market.

This is a huge credit issue, and credit requires confidence. This fucking idiotic vote just put a HUGE dent in confidence which only hurts us all in this situatoin. Even if they pass it, thats something that will not be erased.

You don't fucking play politics in this type of situation and you fucking explain to the people WHY thats the case.

[MannyIsGod]

I know of 2 people I've met off this forum whom I believe to have a good financial head on their shoulders. One of switched their vote today.

[Wild Cobra]

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2008/09/Jump-You-Fers.jpg
LOL

I cannot say I disagree with this...

Sad, but true...

[baseline bum]

:tu

Now if we could only revoke China's most favored nation trade status.

[hater]

Question: What sort of businesses do you suppose are going to be the least affected by this whole thing?

illegal drug rings and asian brothels

[PixelPusher]

Boehner: we could have passed this today if Pelosi wasn't such a partisan bitch this morning.

Owned. :lol

You're laughing because a couple of Republicans were oversensitive pussies?

[JoeChalupa]

Okay, fuck 'em all. I was smart enough not to over indulge. I live in a small house I paid $45K for. Fuck all of you living in your fancy new 2500 sq.ft, 120K homes.

[Indazone]

Yeah well wait for tomorrow when the Dow drops another 1000 pts and the computers freeze trading.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

you're never going to get a unanimous vote, but the majority of dems voted yea and the majority of reps voted nay.

that was enough for me.

What I say to the republicans is see yeah wouldn't wanna be yeah.

Can someone say LANDSLIDE!!!!!


The Demos holding back were playing partisan politics. The Dems wanted to hold back enough votes to the point that the Republicans would have to lay down a substantial number of votes in favor of the bill so that when this thing comes back to hose us all, Dems could say "it was the Republicans fault too."

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You're laughing because a couple of Republicans were oversensitive pussies?

It's about more than Pelosi. I just enjoyed watching the stupid bitch get embarrassed in public.

Here, let me help you:

Texas HOR member Jim Hensarling:


“My top responsibility as an elected official is to protect the families and people who trusted me to represent their interests in Washington. I do not take lightly the critical nature of the credit crisis that our capital markets face today and the grave situation that every American will face should our credit markets freeze and remain frozen. Inaction has never been an option, but the Paulson plan should have never been the only option.

“In my heart and in my mind, I believe that this plan is fraught with unintended consequences, would force generations of taxpayers to pick up the tab for Wall Street losses, and could permanently and fundamentally change the role of government in the American free enterprise system. Once the government socializes losses, it will soon socialize profits. If we lose our ability to fail, we will soon lose our ability to succeed. If we bail out risky behavior, we will soon see even riskier behavior.

“I also believe that this Congress, in a rushed effort to provide stability to a troubled credit market, did not adequately discuss or investigate potential alternatives that would have constituted a work out and not a bail out. Even at this moment, it still remains more important for Congress to do it right than to do it fast. I stand ready, as do many of my colleagues, to stay here for as many days as it takes to do this right.

“For the last week, House conservatives have fought to protect innocent taxpayers from an unprecedented government raid on their wallets to bail out Wall Street from their bad decisions and financial losses. Principled Republicans like Paul Ryan and Eric Cantor helped improve the legislation before us by adding increased taxpayer protections and additional Wall Street accountability. But mere improvement is not the test for support. The test is whether, after weighing both the good and the bad, you believe that the plan ultimately leads America in the right direction. Using that test, I cannot in good conscience support this legislation.”

And that says it all.

[Anti.Hero]

There's not enough Botox in Pelosi's doctor's needle that can keep her smiling after this.

[ChumpDumper]

Could it be that both sides were playing politics?

[Wild Cobra]

Okay, fuck 'em all. I was smart enough not to over indulge. I live in a small house I paid $45K for. Fuck all of you living in your fancy new 2500 sq.ft, 120K homes.

Wow, where do you live?

A 2500 sq. ft. home around here is probably $500k! Cheap ones are just over $100k

[ElNono]

Wow, where do you live?

A 2500 sq. ft. home around here is probably $500k! Cheap ones are just over $100k

And Oregon is beautiful. Over here in the Jersey coast, which is nice, but not great, a 1 bedroom cheap ass house doesn't go below $200k.