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Jess
10-01-2008, 02:23 PM
2007-08 Recap

Though they failed for a fourth time in their quest to repeat as champs, the Spurs made a credible title defense, returning to the conference finals in a loaded West and succumbing partly because of an ankle injury that rendered Manu Ginobili ineffective against the Lakers.

Yet one also wonders if we've seen the first chinks in their mighty armor. For the first time in eons, San Antonio looked better at the start of the season than at the end, with the offense in particular going into a tailspin in the second half. And with multiple key role players getting well into their 30s, there's a question of how long they can keep playing at this level.

For 2007-08, at least, other teams would have killed to have San Antonio's problems. There was no championship hangover for these guys -- they opened the year 17-3. But then they hit a serious midseason lull, winning just 11 of their next 24 games. As usual, their nine-game February "rodeo road trip" saved them. Though it came earlier than usual, San Antonio won six of the nine games on the trip and nine more in a row once it ended to boomerang back to the top of the West.

In past seasons, the Spurs have ridden that wave through March and into the postseason, but not this time. San Antonio finished the season 13-9 and several of the losses were ugly, including defeats by 21 to the Lakers, 17 to Phoenix, 26 to Utah, and 25 to New Orleans.

In particular, the offense ground to a halt. San Antonio ranked 26th in the NBA in second-half offensive efficiency, behind such luminaries as the Knicks, Nets and Wolves. Obviously, this was an unacceptable performance for a championship aspirant, and what made it particularly aggravating was a pronounced tendency for the offense to fall apart in the second half after a solid opening two quarters.

San Antonio showed the same tendencies in the postseason. It lost three times when leading at halftime against New Orleans and punted leads of 20 and 17 points to lose to the Lakers in the conference finals. For the postseason as a whole, the Spurs were only 12th out of 16 teams in offensive efficiency.

Relative to the league, the Spurs' second-half offensive decline was absolutely massive. While the league average offensive efficiency rose by five points after the break (this is fairly normal), San Antonio's fell by 3.5. If those numbers resonate, try this one on: San Antonio's second-half decline was larger than Miami's, even though the Heat traded Shaq, shut down Dwyane Wade and fielded a glorified CBA team for that stretch while the Spurs were gunning for a repeat championship.

Fortunately, their D bailed them out time and again. The Spurs have always been a dominant defensive team under Gregg Popovich, and after a slow start they were again last season. After the All-Star break, San Antonio ranked second in defensive efficiency, barely missing Boston for the top spot. Relative to the league, the Spurs were 7.18 points better after the break -- only Orlando improved more.

San Antonio's defensive strategy was predicated on taking away all the easy stuff -- for years it has been among the hardest teams to get a 3-pointer against, and had one of the league's lowest opponent assist rates. That trend held up again last season, when the Spurs were third in 3-point defense (34.2 percent) and were the third-hardest team to get a 3-point look against -- just 19.1 percent of opponent field-goal attempts were 3s. With Tim Duncan around, it wasn't easy to score inside the arc against them either -- San Antonio was fourth in 2-point defense and gave up a below-average number of free throws.

With two world-class defenders in Duncan and Bruce Bowen and a number of solid defenders around them, San Antonio rarely needed to double or overcommit from the help side; as a result, it tended to turn opponents into one-on-one jump shooters. San Antonio gave up assists on just 52.2 percent of opponent field goals; only Phoenix gave up fewer.

But perhaps the most important plank in the Spurs' defensive wall was the rebounding. With Duncan as the centerpiece, San Antonio rebounded 77.1 percent of opponent missed shots (see chart). That total led the league, and allowed the Spurs to limit their opponents' shot attempts despite rarely forcing turnovers.

Their D was still rolling in the postseason, where they ranked fourth in playoff defensive efficiency despite facing three of the league's top five offensive teams. The offense, however, couldn't overcome Ginobili's injury in the conference finals. He scored 7, 7, 9 and 10 points in the four San Antonio losses, and the Spurs averaged just 86.4 points in the five games against L.A.

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Biggest Strength: Interior scoring

No matter how much they struggle to score, the Spurs have always been able to fall back on the fact that their opponents will struggle just as much. The Spurs have been one of the league's top three defenses every year of the Popovich-Duncan era, and last season was no exception.

Popovich is one of the game's top teachers and motivators, and he has two outstanding individual defenders to base his system around in Bowen and Duncan. Bowen shuts down the opponents' top wing player with his quickness and savvy, while Duncan quietly dominates inside with his shot-blocking and rebounding.

Around them are other strong defenders. Ime Udoka is the heir apparent to Bowen as the wing specialist, Thomas is excellent at defending the post and helping teammates, and even scorers like Ginobili and Parker are solid defenders -- as are most of the secondary players. Even with the team getting up in years, it's hard to imagine San Antonio finishing outside the league's elite in defensive efficiency. Speaking of which …

Biggest Weakness: Age

If you haven't noticed, these guys are getting really, really old. Parker is the only key player who is on the good side of 27. Everyone else can be expected to be somewhere between slightly worse and massively worse than they were a year ago.

Taken individually, it doesn't seem so horrible that Ginobili and Udoka are 31, or that Mason is 29, for instance. It's when you start piling up the cumulative impact of all their ages that it really sinks in. Bowen is 37, Finley and Thomas are 35, Fabricio Oberto and Jacque Vaughn are 33 and Duncan is 32. Yeesh.

In particular, the age of the wing players has to be a concern. San Antonio's top four wing players are 31 and older, and while they've taken exceptional care of their bodies, history tells us that the only direction they can surprise us in is down.

Up front, they at least have size and smarts to fall back on, but the age of the top three is a worry too. Ian Mahinmi, a 2005 first-rounder, is the one flicker of youth in that group; he comes off a strong D-League season and will try to win a role as the fourth big man. Unfortunately, San Antonio's frontcourt succession plans got a little messed up when 2007 first-rounder Tiago Splitter decided to stay in Europe; he would have provided an inexpensive, quality young center, but couldn't take the pay cut dictated by the league's rookie salary scale.

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Outlook

With Ginobili set to miss a big chunk of the season and probably needing several games to get his timing back upon returning, and age questions running up and down the rest of the roster, San Antonio seems in position to take a step back in the West … at least during the regular season. The Popovich-Duncan tandem has produced at least 56 wins for eight straight seasons, an incredible accomplishment, but it seems highly unlikely to run that string to nine.

The problem is that the Spurs don't have anyone else capable of stepping up into a primary scoring role when one of their stars go out -- they've entirely built the team with the idea that the other guys will be snipers who can play off their three ace scorers. Take Ginobili out of the equation and that begins to unravel; should Parker or Duncan turn an ankle in the fist half of the season, things could really get ugly.

San Antonio is trying to squeeze two more years out of this nucleus, but there's a possibility they won't make it that long -- in fact, the roster's advanced age leaves open the possibility of a sudden, unexpected collapse. I don't think it's likely, mind you, but that's the thing about sudden age-related collapses -- we never expect it. Just ask Miami.

More likely, All-Star-caliber play from Duncan and Parker and the usual suffocating defense keeps the Spurs afloat long enough for Ginobili to come back and get them into the playoffs. If they're healthy at that point, they'll be a very dangerous first-round opponent because of their three stars and history of late-season surges … but they'll also be playing every round on the road.

Prediction: 47-35, 3rd in Southwest Division, 5th in Western Conference

Original article: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/trainingcamp08/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=SpursForecast0809

Jess
10-01-2008, 02:25 PM
Pretty bold IMO, predicting fewer than 50 wins.

tp2021
10-01-2008, 02:28 PM
Pretty dumb IMO, predicting fewer than 50 wins.

honestfool84
10-01-2008, 02:41 PM
Pretty stupid IMO, predicting fewer than 50 wins.

Extra Stout
10-01-2008, 02:45 PM
Why exactly is fewer than 50 wins so unreasonable? They'll struggle with Ginobili out, then if they win 70% from then on out, you're looking at 52 or 53 wins. If Duncan or Parker miss any significant time, they very easily could drop into the high 40's.

1Parker1
10-01-2008, 02:55 PM
Spurs managed to win 50+ games in 05 when Duncan had an ankle injury about 3 times over the course of the season. Last season, Parker missed significant time as well with injuries.

History has shown, in the regular season, Duncan/Parker tandem is more than capable of picking up the slack with Ginobili out. As long as the Spurs are healthy come playoff time, I think they have as great a chance as anyone to come out of the West.

xtremesteven33
10-01-2008, 02:57 PM
Parker,Vaughn,Hill,Staudimire,Mason are too many PG options.

i really wonder what pop plans on doing conerning this issue.hopefully theres a trade in the works. I would really like to see a trade involving Staudamire, and maybe Vaughn and Bonner for a Udonis Haslem from Miami.Seeing how Miami longs for PG's. I know its a long shot but thats just a random idea.

rAm
10-01-2008, 03:07 PM
Why would they trade for stoudamire when they could of had him last week?

Spurs Brazil
10-01-2008, 03:08 PM
I think we'll win 54-56 games

JamStone
10-01-2008, 03:10 PM
Pretty unlikely the Spurs win less than 50 games, but I don't think it's dumb to predict it. It's completely plausible. Again, unlikely but plausible.

pad300
10-01-2008, 03:12 PM
Who's impersonating Hollinger? The entire preview without using the PER statistic? Whoever this is, it ain't Hollinger...

screw_ston713
10-01-2008, 03:14 PM
Jazz finishing number one in the west :lol They must be playing all 82 games in utah.

Solid D
10-01-2008, 03:54 PM
There is a problem with predicting 47 wins, yet predicting the Spurs make the playoffs. Those 47 Ws may not get them in the playoffs. Golden State had 48 wins last season and didn't get in. 50-win Denver took the 8th spot.

Yes, it was a rare, never-been-done-before type of year, but has the West gotten weaker? I doubt it.

koriwhat
10-01-2008, 04:00 PM
fuck hollinger!

I. Hustle
10-01-2008, 04:15 PM
Pretty gay IMO, predicting fewer than 50 wins.

FromWayDowntown
10-01-2008, 04:17 PM
I understand his point, but I don't think that Hollinger's numbers add up.

As best I can figure, the East's W's and the West's L's should match up, since the East teams will go .500 against each other, since the difference between the conferences will be the games they play against each other, and since the conferences will have precisely inverse records in those games (a win by a West team in those games is a loss by an East team, right?).

Given those truths -- please correct me if I'm missing something -- Hollinger has the East going 617-613 in the coming year and the West going 611-619.

Aside from the seeming impossibility of that result, what strikes me is the implication by Hollinger that the East will actually be better than the West, which seems incredibly unlikely. Last year, the West was 258-192 against the East (.573) or 66 games better. Now Hollinger is saying that in a year in which most agree that the West will be as brutal as it's ever been, with the conference stocked with good-to-great teams, the East will actually have a winning record in games against the West and that it's teams will collectively improve by something like 70 games or so -- that would be a pretty remarkable turnaround.

And, for whatever it's worth, Hollinger's predictions at this stage of last season weren't remarkably good or anything. He was within 5 games either way of 11 teams' records; but he was off by at least 14 games either way on 9 teams' records.

The Truth #6
10-01-2008, 04:39 PM
I think it's a reasonable article. He lays out the positives and the negatives. It would be crazy not to be concerned about the duration of Manu's injury, our aging role players, and the inexperience of new players.

If Tony or Tim get injured while Manu is out, yeah, it could get bad. We had problems scoring last year even with the Big 3. Getting points on the board will be an issue this year.

T Park
10-01-2008, 04:45 PM
I think the west takes a step back in needing 50 wins due to the parity and toughness of all the western teams.

Flight3107
10-01-2008, 04:48 PM
Pretty smart IMO, predicting fewer than 50 wins.

holcs50
10-01-2008, 05:18 PM
idk if i agree about the 50 wins issue-but what I certainly agree with is our horrible-HORRIBLE second half scoring last year. I think some of us forget how bad the spurs were-and those stats he gave should remind everyone that we had major offensive problems in the most important parts of the game-3rd/4th quarters. I seriously think we gotta ditch vaughn-and yea he knows the system-but we gotta give the young guys time early in the year and let them grow and learn instead of sticking with the same old same old. He doesn't do anything game changing anyways-so give hill some good time, give salim good time (think this is very important for our "snipers"), and i think mason will already get time. But seriously no reason to give finley and vaughn much at all unless we fall to like 2-10. haha. I would say we win around 50 though-probably 52/53

Solid D
10-01-2008, 05:55 PM
The Spurs clearly tried to address their offense instead of their interior defense in the off-season. They picked up some guys who can score, so I don't think what happened last season was lost on the Spurs' management. I mean, their #1 target was Corey Maggette...not exactly a defensive stopper.

timvp
10-01-2008, 07:15 PM
Hollinger had some decent points within the article. Not great but it was far better than some of his drivel.

His calculator seems to have not noticed the addition of Mason. Like I've been saying as of late, I see Mason as the make-it or break-it player this season. He has to prove to be the missing fourth scorer or else the Spurs will succumb to age and injury. The Spurs were horrible last year in the second half of the year offensively. Mason is the shining beacon of hope in that regards. Hollinger mentions Udoka but I fully expect Mason to get a whole lot more time if he can prove to be a scorer.

If Mason can prove to be a fourth scorer and then if just one of Mahinmi, Bonner or Tolliver elevate themselves into the rotation in place of Horry, the Spurs offense should be improved. And that's not even considering Parker taking up his offense a notch or two.

The Spurs will obviously miss Ginobili but as long as Duncan and Parker can stay healthy, I feel pretty confident they can keep their heads above water.

T Park
10-01-2008, 07:18 PM
I just can't say I'm 100% confident in Roger Mason being that guy.

Maggette would've, I just can't see Mason being that guy.

I hope to be horribly horribly wrong.

Manufan909
10-01-2008, 09:32 PM
I can see Mason being that guy. But I can also see Finley getting more time than Udoka or Mason, and Vaughn getting more time than Hill or Stoudamire, which would both be disasters, imo.

Spork KIller
10-01-2008, 09:33 PM
2007-08 Recap



Prediction: 47-35, 3rd in Southwest Division, 5th in Western Conference

Original article: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/trainingcamp08/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=SpursForecast0809


Right on the money although I see this elderly team win 45 games and seeded 7th or 8th at best.

You Suck and you know it!

anakha
10-01-2008, 09:36 PM
Right on the money although I see this elderly team win 45 games and seeded 7th or 8th at best.

You Suck and you know it!

What, no WNBA smack, Louis? Go back to the other thread. :lol

barbacoataco
10-01-2008, 10:08 PM
Roger Mason will have to step up with Ginobili out. But Parker will really have to play like the superstar he is capable of for the Spurs to hold on.
I do think the Spurs have an odd roster right now, with too many point guard options and small guards. They got burned to eternity by West last season, and the only new player who could possibly help is Mahinmi. Maybe they are looking to trade Bonner and either stoudamire, hill or vaughn for a defensive specialist long 3. Who that would be I have no idea.

Also, the Spurs have exactly one player with any kind of post up game. After Duncan there is no one. A big coming off the bench who had at least some kind of post game would help the 2nd team offense from going stagnant and settling for contested jump shots. I know those players aren't a dime a dozen, but there has to be someone available. Is there any chance Mahinmi could be this guy>

Sean Cagney
10-01-2008, 10:12 PM
Right on the money although I see this elderly team win 45 games and seeded 7th or 8th at best.

You Suck and you know it!

Your team is really young :lmao:lmao

Manufan909
10-01-2008, 10:14 PM
A slight one. For now we can only hope. Anyone seriously follow him while he was in the D-League?

tlongII
10-01-2008, 10:17 PM
The Spurs should win 50-52 games imo. To me Hollinger's best point was about the Spurs' getting worse as the season progressed last year. That's the opposite of the team's performance over the prior several seasons. Not a good sign with their aging roster...

lurker23
10-01-2008, 11:21 PM
All-in-all a decent article, especially for Hollinger. However, he seems to be one of those guys who repeat things that he has been wrong about in the past, and then when he is eventually right, he does that, "See, I toldya so!" thing.



2007-08 All-Decline Team: Who's taking a step back?

Manu Ginobili, Spurs (last season 24.18, projected 21.7)
Don't take this too far -- the guy is still an All-Star caliber performer who remains one of the league's most underrated players because the restrictions on his minutes hurt his per-game averages (believe it or not, he had the league's ninth-best PER last season).

But Manu was so good last season that it would be very difficult for him to repeat it -- he put up his best numbers since coming to the NBA in pretty much every category. As a 30-year-old slasher, we'd expect his numbers to go down anyway, and I think it's a relatively safe bet that he won't finish in the top 10 in PER this season despite his strong start so far.



Result: Manu had the best year of his career thus far, posting a PER of 24.34, good for 7th best in the league.




In particular, the age of the wing players has to be a concern. San Antonio's top four wing players are 31 and older, and while they've taken exceptional care of their bodies, history tells us that the only direction they can surprise us in is down.



Except for the history of oh-so-long ago (a.k.a. last year), when Manu surprised you in an up direction. I'm not guaranteeing that he'll do it again this year (though I do personally think he'll do quite well after returning from injury), but why would anyone repeat something that they were proved wrong on less than 12 months ago?

lurker23
10-01-2008, 11:24 PM
The Popovich-Duncan tandem has produced at least 56 wins for eight straight seasons, an incredible accomplishment, but it seems highly unlikely to run that string to nine.



I've been thinking that the Spurs will have a season with 51 to 54 wins, especially with Ginobili missing a substantial part of the season, and at least one other relatively major injury basically guaranteed at some point. However, just to spite Hollinger, I'll put myself out on a limb and predict a final record of 56-26.

mathbzh
10-02-2008, 04:14 AM
, but why would anyone repeat something that they were proved wrong on less than 12 months ago?

Because someday it will be true :rolleyes

mountainballer
10-02-2008, 05:55 AM
I agree with Hollinger that the gap between West and East won't be that ridiculous huge.
so, unlike last season, 45 or 46 wins should be enough to make the POs.
however, even if a less than 50 wins prediction looks poor and far off, we can't ignore the facts Spurs already have to deal with.
Spurs fans claimed how much power a not healthy Manu took from the team, so no Manu at all will take even more. and we know that Manu will be his old self maybe at the all star break, even if he's back mid December.
so a 20-20 start of the season isn't impossible and even with a strong 2nd regular season half, Spurs will struggle to make the 50 wins.
(however, I would predict this 50 wins)
I can't see Mason as the x-factor. the major point will be, that he's able to replace Barry's (underrated) production and we should be happy if he does so. if he's slightly better (10PPG on good shooting %) plus playing better defense, we can call it a great success story, but even this won't be enough avoid a drop during Manu's absence.
another point of concern will be the huge quality gap between Tim and all the other bigs we have, which be bigger than last season IMO.
so the crucial point to save next season will be a trade deadline deal for a quality big, who takes the #2 spot in the big rotation. Spurs don't have great assets, but considering that at deadline also Mason and KT could be included in a package, there are some more scenarios possible, to get a deal done. (maybe Haslem is available then, because of a lack of minutes at PF and we also know that Miami was very interested in KT this summer)

1Parker1
10-02-2008, 12:12 PM
Dror (Israel): Never mind the regular season, do you see Utah coming out of the west in the playoffs? Which Boozer will we see this year?

John Hollinger: I think the West is a three-way toss-up at the top between LA, Utah and Houston; I gave a slight edge to the Jazz but it's basically those three at the top, with New Orleans lurking and San Antonio potentially making noise from a low seed.

:lol He also says Spurs may not make it out the first round and that he sees one of the traditional powerhouses, ie Dallas, Pheonix, and SA unraveling really badly this season. Doesn't know which yet.

DPG21920
10-02-2008, 01:22 PM
Hey when you sweep so broadly you are bound to get something right! If you don't, then you look extra stupid. I can see the Spurs winning between 47 and 53 games. I think if they struggle early, then 47, if they gel fast, 53.

FromWayDowntown
10-02-2008, 01:25 PM
:lol He also says Spurs may not make it out the first round and that he sees one of the traditional powerhouses, ie Dallas, Pheonix, and SA unraveling really badly this season. Doesn't know which yet.

Last spring, Hollinger also suggested that the Suns could be the first team to come back from down 0-3 to a win a series.

And at this juncture last year, Hollinger had the Rockets winning the most games in basketball (61) and being the favorite to win the West.

tav1
10-02-2008, 01:36 PM
I wonder if Pop will start Udoka over Bowen, at least early.

I can see a Parker, RMJR, Udoka, Duncan, --- starting line up.

When Gino comes back, he'll still bring the juice off the bench. The question for me is can the Spurs get any scoring out of Parker's sub? Roger Mason is a big help, but without that long wing the back up point's ppg is crucial to prevent offensive slumps. The Spurs acknowledged as much with their intense interest in point guards this off season.

benefactor
10-02-2008, 01:47 PM
Utah has the edge of New Orleans and the Lakers?

:lmao

Manufan909
10-02-2008, 02:18 PM
Utah is still 5th best. They're not even better than a Manu-less Spurs(not with the additions they've made this year).

1Parker1
10-02-2008, 02:21 PM
Last spring, Hollinger also suggested that the Suns could be the first team to come back from down 0-3 to a win a series.

And at this juncture last year, Hollinger had the Rockets winning the most games in basketball (61) and being the favorite to win the West.

True, but his analysis never even makes sense. For example, he has Utah coming out of the West, being the best team in the league. Yet, Utah didn't make any major offseason moves and couldn't even beat the Lakers last season, without Bynum. Moreover, he has CP3 winning the MVP, but if he thinks the Jazz will have the best record in the West, wouldn't you have to put Deron Williams logically ahead by that thought process of CP3 for the MVP award?

And his biggest gripe against the Spurs is age, when Boston last season was an old team as well and Miami 2 years ago. More so, he claims injuries may hurt the Spurs, specifically Manu's, but then he doesn't account for Houston's injury prone stars, of which McGrady already claimed to have arthritis and pain? Yet, Houston can end up in the top 3, but Spurs projected to win less the 50 games and end up a 6th seed??


Logic does not seem to be Hollinger's strong point. That more so than his DA calculations is what annoys me the most.

nfg3
10-02-2008, 04:14 PM
This offseason the FO has obviously tried to address the offensive slump that the Spurs went through in the second half of the season. Failing in getting Maggette they landed Mason. I agree with those who think he will be a key player this season. Not savior but player. Whether he comes through or not is the question. As a diehard Spurs fan I hope he does but as of late our acquisations haven't been all that steller, which I believe is more a mind set of the current players than the FO's inability to lure players here. I wanted Maggette but who in their right mind is going to turn down that kind of contract the Warriors gave him? And considering the 2010 plan what $$ were really available over the last couple of years to attract the higher qualilty players?

Buddy Holly
10-02-2008, 04:20 PM
Am I the only one who finds it funny when people play the "age" card with the Spurs?

:lol

They're overall much younger in team age than a year ago, but aside from that, the only players of great age are Bowen, Finley and Thomas. Two of those three are starters who won't get the same minutes they did last year and the third is probably now the back up to the back up (when Manu returns).

That "Spurs are old" crap is, well, old.

MoSpur
10-02-2008, 04:25 PM
I'm okay with this prediction. As long as the Spurs are healthy going into the playoffs.

michaelwcho
10-02-2008, 05:54 PM
You guys are seriously underestimating Utah. All the media talked about was the disparity in their home and away record, so that's what the average fan repeats. But, under the radar, they improved tremendously and advanced stats bear that out. Wages of Wins had them as the 3rd best team last year, I think.

Deron is all-world, Boozer is excellent, their young players are promising, and the rest of the roster is above-average. They will be in the equation this year, barring some sort of crazy injury.

bigfan
10-02-2008, 10:48 PM
Hey, the team being underestimated is the Spurs. Everyone is saying "oh, they are good and will make the playoffs but..." This is a good thing. Let everyone think we are old, injured or whatever. We've got the best coach, the one of the best all-round big men ever, a great point guard and a team that knows each other and plays tight. Add to that a couple of new young guys and I think we just might kick some serious azz come the playoffs. Its early yet. I cant wait for the season.

Obstructed_View
10-03-2008, 05:29 AM
I'm okay with this prediction. As long as the Spurs are healthy going into the playoffs.

I'm okay with any prediction that doesn't have the Spurs at the top. They always do better when they aren't reading about how great they are.