AJ Back to the Spurs?

[Biernutz]

AJ was at the Spurs training camp today watching practice. Will he be a coach for us.----This was reported on the 5pm SAT news. I vote :td

[T Park]

Awesome to hear.

He had some good schemes in the 2006 playoffs.

Will also be a good guy who Pop will listen to, who will tell him "Look this doesn't work, this is what they are doing, do this to counter"

[xtremesteven33]

IDK man.....it wouldnt hurt to have him on board but i dont think it would happen and yea im with you....


:td

[I. Hustle]

I heard he wants to play again. WE NEED MORE POINT GUARDS!! WHERE ARE ALL THE POINT GUARDS!!

[timvp]

Very good news. Yet not to surprising (despite what whottt says about the current Spurs hating AJ).

I don't see him being an assistant coach because he'd lose that $$ he's getting from Mark Cuban. But Pop likes bringing in ex-head coaches during training camp so he can get an extra set of eyes and ideas of how to do things.

[Bruno]

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/archives/2008/10/jeff_mcdonald_a_14.html

Jeff McDonald: Another point guard in camp

There are six players in Spurs training camp with experience playing point guard. On Wednesday morning, they welcomed another one.

Avery Johnson, who manned the point on the Spurs' first NBA title team in 1999, was on hand to observe his former team's second day of training camp. Johnson, of course, is newly unemployed, having been removed from his post as the head coach in Dallas over the offseason.

Not surprisingly, Johnson was embraced as a friend of the Spurs family, and not as an erstwhile rival coach.

For Spurs coach Gregg Popovich, the feelings of seeing Johnson in town Wednesday were mixed.

"I like to have Avery here, because he's special to all of us here in San Antonio," Popovich said. "It's good to get a chance to talk basketball with him, talk family and just laugh and have a good time. But I'd rather he was coaching somewhere."

* Popovich probably wishes Johnson could play some post. Due to injuries to big men Kurt Thomas and Ian Mahinmi, the Spurs are thin for the moment in the frontcourt.

In fact, Thomas' strained hamstring is almost solely responsible for the end of the Brian Morrison era in San Antonio. Morrison, a 6-2 guard, was waived after one day of training camp so the Spurs could add another big body -- the 6-foot-9 Charles Gaines, a veteran of the European leagues.

Thomas said Wednesday he expects to miss at least the first week of camp, and possibly the second. Mahinmi, out with a sprained right ankle, felt well enough to shoot around at Wednesday's session, but still isn't expected to be available for much of the preseason.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Popovich probably wishes Johnson could play some post. Due to injuries to big men Kurt Thomas and Ian Mahinmi, the Spurs are thin for the moment in the frontcourt.





Well, we've got two shooting guards backing up Tony at the point. May as well let Avery take a shot at PF. What the hell.

[Solid D]

Don Nelson and Jim Boeheim were at the Spurs Training Camp in the Virgin Islands a couple of years ago, with Boeheim directing a good portion of one practice (teaching Zone). It doesn't mean anything that AJ was there today.

[T Park]

Shame he can't be a full time assistant.

[Spurs Brazil]

Thomas said Wednesday he expects to miss at least the first week of camp, and possibly the second. Mahinmi, out with a sprained right ankle, felt well enough to shoot around at Wednesday's session, but still isn't expected to be available for much of the preseason.

Bad news about Thomas. Training camp would be great for him learn the system more.

It happened the same thing with Nazr, who arrived in the midseason and missed the camp because the birth of his son

[CubanSucks]

AJ was at the Spurs training camp today watching practice. Will he be a coach for us.----This was reported on the 5pm SAT news. I vote :td

Are you fucking stupid? Why the fuck wouldn't you want Avery back? He's a proven HEAD coach who is familiar with Pop and the surroundings of San Antonio.

[Biernutz]

Are you fucking stupid? Why the fuck wouldn't you want Avery back? He's a proven HEAD coach who is familiar with Pop and the surroundings of San Antonio.

Did you read the original post you moron? Get your the neighbors 3 year old to translate it for you.

[Drippin' Fan]

I believe Tim doesn't like AJ's coaching style, and will not play for him. That basically rules out any possibility of ever having AJ on board.
I wouldn't want him either.

[T Park]

I believe Tim doesn't like AJ's coaching style, and will not play for him. That basically rules out any possibility of ever having AJ on board.
I wouldn't want him either.


Keep hanging onto that myth.

[T Park]

I believe Tim doesn't like AJ's coaching style, and will not play for him. That basically rules out any possibility of ever having AJ on board.
I wouldn't want him either.

The op voted thumbs down.

Did you forget your 3 year old neighbor?

[Biernutz]

The op voted thumbs down.

Did you forget your 3 year old neighbor?


She voted :td also---We don't need him.

[Bruno]

Mahinmi, out with a sprained right ankle, felt well enough to shoot around at Wednesday's session, but still isn't expected to be available for much of the preseason.

Good news.
I don't think it's really a big deal if Mahinmi miss practices but preseason games will be important to showcase what he can do.
Spurs have 7 preseason games. If Mahinmi is back in two weeks, he will have 5 games to show what he is worth. If his recovery takes one more week, he will still have two preseason games.

[SenorSpur]

More Avery man-love? Please.

Anyone smell the scorched earth he left in his wake the last time he left town? I aint talking about in Dallas either.

Only AJ would dictate a mandatory, post-up style with a roster which has no post up player. Give me a break!

[T Park]

More Avery man-love? Please.

Anyone smell the scorched earth he left in his wake the last time he left town? I aint talking about in Dallas either.
Only AJ would dictate a mandatory, post-up style with a roster which has no post up player. Give me a break!


Again, keep buying into that myth.

[timvp]

It's amazing how Spurs fans can twist having the coach with the highest winning percentage in NBA history helping out as a bad thing.

The news on Thomas is bad. He needed this training camp almost as much as Mahinmi. His offense cohesion with the rest of the team was horrible last season. Training camp is the best time to work out the kinks.

Mahinmi sounds like he will miss all of training camp and I think that basically ruins his whole season. If he played well in training camp, Pop was going to play him a massive amount of minutes in the preseason to see what he could do. Now he's going to be gimpy and even if he can play in a few preseason games, he'll likely be out of shape and unable to show what he can do.

The only good news that may perhaps come out of the Mahinmi injury is they can probably send him to D-League without him getting too upset. He knows he is missing a huge opportunity.

I scoffed at the notion earlier but is it time to reconsider the fact that Mahinmi may be a China doll? He's been hurt a whole lot with a bunch of different injuries since the Spurs drafted him. Pop even sounded a bit miffed about Mahinmi getting hurt. I don't want to put him in the Paino category but Pop sounded like he was ready to pull that trigger.

[Kriz-Maxima]

I believe Tim doesn't like AJ's coaching style, and will not play for him. That basically rules out any possibility of ever having AJ on board.
I wouldn't want him either.

Even if that were true, do you honestly believe Pop would let anybody come in and upset his star? Whatever Avery does with the team he does under the supervision of Pop, and I don't think Pop is the kind of guy who takes shit from anybody.

[timvp]

Anyone smell the scorched earth he left in his wake the last time he left town? I aint talking about in Dallas either. Smells more like a retired jersey.


Only AJ would dictate a mandatory, post-up style with a roster which has no post up player. Give me a break!Dallas Fan, Dallas Owner and Dallas Media doesn't understand how NBA championships are won. Name the last completely perimeter team to win an NBA championship. Even these Celtics scored a bunch of points in the paint by posting up everyone from Garnett to Pierce to Cassell to PJ Brown.

If Dallas hates AJ, that tells me he was doing something right.

[Bruno]

I don't see him being an assistant coach because he'd lose that $$ he's getting from Mark Cuban.

Are you sure of that ?

[ducks]

It's amazing how Spurs fans can twist having the coach with the highest winning percentage in NBA history helping out as a bad thing.

what the hell has he ever done in postseason
and what the hell has he done to keep chemistry in dallas
NOTHING

[T Park]

Are you sure of that ?

AJ wouldn't want to make millions over thousands?

I can't see that.

[T Park]

what the hell has he ever done in postseasonand what the hell has he done to keep chemistry in dallas
NOTHING

Lead a team to a championship

lead a team to the NBA Finals beating a better SA team in the process in only his first full season of head coaching duties.


But yet your still the same drool cup using retard that thinks Lebron James is overrated so what am I thinking.

[Bruno]

AJ wouldn't want to make millions over thousands?

I can't see that.

You didn't get what I wanted to say.
I wonder if signing as an assistant coach would make him lose Cuban's $.

[T Park]

You didn't get what I wanted to say.
I wonder if signing as an assistant coach would make him lose Cuban's $.

I think he has a clause that would I believe.

[timvp]

Are you sure of that ?I saw a quote from Cuban saying as long as AJ is out of the NBA, he'll still have to pay him. I'm guessing assistant coach = in the NBA.

[Biernutz]

I don't hate AJ ,he helped us get our rings but we have a good coaching staff who works well with Pop and RC. ----I look forward to trying to seeing how AJ does on TV.

[T Park]

I don't hate AJ ,he helped us get our rings but we have a good coaching staff who works well with Pop and RC. ----I look forward to trying to seeing how AJ does on TV.

AJ would improve the coaching staff 50 fold.

Him sending Brett Brown back behind the bench would be fantastic.

[ducks]

Lead a team to a championship

lead a team to the NBA Finals beating a better SA team in the process in only his first full season of head coaching duties.


But yet your still the same drool cup using retard that thinks Lebron James is overrated so what am I thinking.

HE lead the nba in chocking the finals and then losing the team


HE IS A VERY BAD COACH

[T Park]

HE lead the nba in chocking the finals and then losing the team


HE IS A VERY BAD COACH


:lol

How does one Chock a finals?

[ducks]

you want me to chock you like aj chokes

[T Park]

No thanks I'm straight.


Sorry to break it to the AJ haters, but if Pop wants AJ back, that means that Duncan is on board with it.


Go ahead and throw your tantrums now.

[ChuckD]

There is zero chance of AJ coaching this year. He'll get an analyst gig, and sit back and collect paychecks from Cuban. Anyone know how many years he had left? He was extended after the 2006 Finals run, and didn't even coach two full years after that.

My guess is:

Number of years left to collect every dime from Cuban = number of years before he takes a coaching job.


I saw a quote from Cuban saying as long as AJ is out of the NBA, he'll still have to pay him. I'm guessing assistant coach = in the NBA.

BTW, Cuban is a dumbass for continuing to throw him under the bus at every chance. Makes A.J. MUCH less employable, and therefor much more likely to collect ALL of his remaining Mavs checks.

[Biernutz]

AJ would improve the coaching staff 50 fold.

Him sending Brett Brown back behind the bench would be fantastic.

Having a line up of former NBA coaches didn't put Dallas over the hump. We don't need another coach to teach defense. We could use a offense minded coach to draw some X's and O's.

[T Park]

Having a line up of former NBA coaches didn't put Dallas over the hump. We don't need another coach to teach defense. We could use a offense minded coach to draw some X's and O's.


The Mavericks ranked among the top offenses in the league.

He had nothing to do with that though I'm sure.

All defense. :lol

[Biernutz]

The Mavericks ranked among the top offenses in the league.

He had nothing to do with that though I'm sure.

All defense. :lol

The Suns were probably #2 but they were first round and out.

[T Park]

The Suns were probably #2 but they were first round and out.

Thanks to a coach who didn't want to coach defense.

The Mavericks went out in the first round because

1 the Hornets were better


and thats it. That Hornets team was just far superior and Phil Jackson Pop no one would've gotten the Mavericks past em.

[Biernutz]

Thanks to a coach who didn't want to coach defense.

The Mavericks went out in the first round because

1 the Hornets were better


and thats it. That Hornets team was just far superior and Phil Jackson Pop no one would've gotten the Mavericks past em.

The Mav's had that look to them. They looked out of sync when they played N.O.--AJ will probably have a somewhat hard time now that Cuban put the "players quit on him and now want to be traded" tag on him. Kind of like PJ and the choking thing.

[T Park]

The Mav's had that look to them. They looked out of sync when they played N.O.--AJ will probably have a somewhat hard time now that Cuban put the "players quit on him and now want to be traded" tag on him. Kind of like PJ and the choking thing.

The players quit on him because they are a big band of whining pusses who didn't like getting yelled at.

[Biernutz]

The players quit on him because they are a big band of whining pusses who didn't like getting yelled at.

I'm going out on a limb now but could Dirk be one? :lol

[T Park]

I'm going out on a limb now but could Dirk be one? :lol


Nahhhh, hes the epitome of mental strength.

To his defense them getting knocked out of the first round was not his fault either.

[Biernutz]

It had to be a major culture shock for Nellies team to AJ's team. I think that the Mav's lost a lot when Del Harris retired.

[T Park]

It had to be a major culture shock for Nellies team to AJ's team. I think that the Mav's lost a lot when Del Harris retired.

I think Dull was there last year.

If he retired, it had to be this past offseason.

[Biernutz]

I think Dull was there last year.

If he retired, it had to be this past offseason.

Harris retired before last season. Del was probably the buffer between AJ and some of the wussy teammates.

[T Park]

I'm not positive, but I think Harris was still there....

[Biernutz]

Del left after the 06' melt down. AJ's 07' coaches were Joe Prunty and Paul Westphal.

[duncan228]

I'm confused about Duncan's opinion of AJ.

I've read things over the years that led me to believe that Duncan really wasn't a fan of AJ, even when he was playing with him. Then there was the '06 semi's series where AJ was yelling plays out when Duncan was on that side of the court and his voice was able to get Duncan's attention and make him pause, waiting for double-teams that never came. I've got the quotes from Duncan somewhere, about how it took him a while to tune AJ's voice out. (He said something about AJ's voice still being able to catch him).

Now, this conversation says there's nothing to the rumor that Duncan isn't okay with him. I'm not sure what to believe.

I have no problem with Pop bringing anyone in that he thinks can help in any way. I trust Pop's judgement. An extra coaching mind and pair of eyes can only help, especially one that was trained in our system. And I do think if Duncan has a problem with him he won't be around to stay. But I'm just not sure what to believe now.

[T Park]

The rumors of him hating AJ were debunked I believe.

[SenorSpur]

Again, keep buying into that myth.

And you all keep buying into that myth of AJ being this genius savant of a head coach.

Ask Pat Riley and Don Nelson what a great coach he is. :lol

[tav1]

I scoffed at the notion earlier but is it time to reconsider the fact that Mahinmi may be a China doll? He's been hurt a whole lot with a bunch of different injuries since the Spurs drafted him. Pop even sounded a bit miffed about Mahinmi getting hurt. I don't want to put him in the Paino category but Pop sounded like he was ready to pull that trigger.

No. Now is just the right time to ask that question. He might be soft. My personal take is that Mahinmi doesn't know how to fall. He came to basketball late and falling is, oddly enough, a kind of skill you that learn from starting young. And Vollyball is a sissy sport.

[tav1]

The Mav's had that look to them. They looked out of sync when they played N.O.--AJ will probably have a somewhat hard time now that Cuban put the "players quit on him and now want to be traded" tag on him. Kind of like PJ and the choking thing.

No doubt. The Mavs have no mettle. AJ tried to bring it out of them but it was a hopeless cause.

Their playoff losses to Miami and Golden State define epic fail. In fact, the tailspin is still in rapid descent.

[SenorSpur]

Smells more like a retired jersey.

Dallas Fan, Dallas Owner and Dallas Media doesn't understand how NBA championships are won. Name the last completely perimeter team to win an NBA championship. Even these Celtics scored a bunch of points in the paint by posting up everyone from Garnett to Pierce to Cassell to PJ Brown.

If Dallas hates AJ, that tells me he was doing something right.

I don't give a squat about what Dallas thinks. I also don't care about his "sparkling" coaching record. All anyone has to do is look at his playoff resume. AJ is 2-12 in his last 14 playoff games.

The worse thing that could've happened to this lil' jerk was early success. He got badly outcoached by nearly every veteran coach he went up against in the playoffs. His success versus the Spurs was easy and simple - he knew what Pop would do before he did it. Same way Nellie outcoached him the next season

No one is saying the guy isn't competent. He's just a rigid, stubborn, know-it-all, who resists making changes and slow to make adjustments during the course of a game. Those are not my words. Ask any assistant coach who's ever worked for the guy. Ask Paul Westphal how much input he had with Avery. Ask Del Harris. Better yet, ask any opposing coach he went up against during the playoffs. All these opinions from respected coaches, who have significant resumes of their own, do mean something.

It seems that only place AJ is hailed as a coaching genius is here. When, in fact, he's badly overrated. Word gets out about a coach's shortcomings just as they do about player shortcomings. AJ's got his, except he, and the rest of you AJ defenders, are the only ones who don't have a clue as to what they are.

[z0sa]

No doubt. The Mavs have no mettle. AJ tried to bring it out of them but it was a hopeless cause.

Their playoff losses to Miami and Golden State define epic fail. In fact, the tailspin is still in rapid descent.

+1

The Golden State series especially exhibits AJ's lack of coaching expertise, and the true Dirk came out like always.

[ulosturedge]

AJ shows up to watch Spurs training camp and now hes an assistant coach pushing Duncan to be traded? I don't get why people jump to so many conclusions.

AJ overcame adversity and made a career when it looked like he had no place in the NBA when he came into the league. Helped get the Spurs their first championship and made a one dimensional Mavericks team buy into team defense when they made a run at the Championship.

Avery should be welcomed to Pop atleast. He can provide some second opinions on the basketball court. I doubt he intends on imposing himself on the team. People need to chill lol. The guy knows his place he just apparently still loves the game of basketball. Imagine that...

[T Park]

And you all keep buying into that myth of AJ being this genius savant of a head coach.

Ask Pat Riley and Don Nelson what a great coach he is. :lol


:lol

Haters like you will always hate.

Pat Riley didn't totally outcoach Johnson.

His Players choked, theres only so much he could freaking do.

You haters are so unreal.

[T Park]

+1

The Golden State series especially exhibits AJ's lack of coaching expertise, and the true Dirk came out like always.

Lack of coaching expertise = bad matchup?

Interesting.

So did 2006 show Pop's lack of coaching expertise vs the Mavericks?

[SenorSpur]

This is a guy who selfishly doesn't do anything or make any statement, unless it fits his own agenda.

Personally, I'd rather he keep his coaching opinions to himself.

[SenorSpur]

:lol

Haters like you will always hate.

Pat Riley didn't totally outcoach Johnson.

His Players choked, theres only so much he could freaking do.

You haters are so unreal.

And AJ nut-hangers, like you, will always find an excuse. :lol

No one was happier to see that Finals meltdown than me. On the heels of the Spurs disappointing loss to them, it was a sheer pleasure to watch the Mavs go up in flames.

A meltdown of such proportions means there is blame all around. But do you think that jerk took any of it? No. He stepped up and blamed his players. Great characteristics of a leader.

Go forward and build your statue. :lol

[YODA]

TIMVP.......Why cant Avery be an asst coach for the Spurs anyway? Something to do with the contract with Dallas or what?

[SenorSpur]

TIMVP.......Why cant Avery be an asst coach for the Spurs anyway? Something to do with the contract with Dallas or what?

No way he'll give up Cuban's $4mil per season for a paltry assistant coach's salary. I couldn't blame him for that.

Once you've tasted and become drunk with the "head wine" of being a head coach, it's very tough to sober up and go backward.

[YODA]

No way he'll give up Cuban's $4mil per season for a paltry assistant coach's salary. I couldn't blame him for that.

Once you've tasted and become drunk with the "head wine" of being a head coach, it's very tough to sober up and go backward.

Why would he have to give it up???

[tav1]

+1

The Golden State series especially exhibits AJ's lack of coaching expertise, and the true Dirk came out like always.

For the record, I think AJ is a fine coach. His players were chokers.

[SenorSpur]

Why would he have to give it up???

He shouldn't, he wouldn't and he wont.

That's why any notion of him becoming an assistant is assinine.

[ChuckD]

Why would he have to give it up???

Cuban only has to pay him until he gets another NBA job. Notice, I didn't say head coaching job. If he were to take the Spurs video co-ordinator job, he loses the $4M per year.

It's funny that he regularly throws his players under the bus. That's the exact reason he went to Pop, and asked to have Bob Hill fired. Strange that he turns out to be Hill Lite.

[SenorSpur]

He's not that big of a fool to take anything less than a head coaching job.

We'll see how soon he gets one.

[BOHOLANO#21]

I don't give a squat about what Dallas thinks. I also don't care about his "sparkling" coaching record. All anyone has to do is look at his playoff resume. AJ is 2-12 in his last 14 playoff games.

The worse thing that could've happened to this lil' jerk was early success. He got badly outcoached by nearly every veteran coach he went up against in the playoffs. His success versus the Spurs was easy and simple - he knew what Pop would do before he did it. Same way Nellie outcoached him the next season

No one is saying the guy isn't competent. He's just a rigid, stubborn, know-it-all, who resists making changes and slow to make adjustments during the course of a game. Those are not my words. Ask any assistant coach who's ever worked for the guy. Ask Paul Westphal how much input he had with Avery. Ask Del Harris. Better yet, ask any opposing coach he went up against during the playoffs. All these opinions from respected coaches, who have significant resumes of their own, do mean something.

It seems that only place AJ is hailed as a coaching genius is here. When, in fact, he's badly overrated. Word gets out about a coach's shortcomings just as they do about player shortcomings. AJ's got his, except he, and the rest of you AJ defenders, are the only ones who don't have a clue as to what they are.
well said.:toast AJ will be in the dog house forever unless the SPURS will ressurect his coaching career.

[Flux451]

Seems like a lot of posters in this thread are post Avery/Drob/Sean E. era. Avery Johnson was a great point guard, especially for his size. He was a pass first guard with great leadership. And he has hit some big shots too. This was the time before high scoring guards, when the big men were dominating.
He has done great things for the Spurs.

He should of never been a head coach, not qualified like Palin. But he isn't trying to do that over here.

He would be a tremendous asset to Spurs Organization.

[YODA]

Cuban only has to pay him until he gets another NBA job. Notice, I didn't say head coaching job. If he were to take the Spurs video co-ordinator job, he loses the $4M per year.

It's funny that he regularly throws his players under the bus. That's the exact reason he went to Pop, and asked to have Bob Hill fired. Strange that he turns out to be Hill Lite.

WHY??? Michael Finley was getting paid by dallas and here if I recall correctly. Why wouldnt the same be in effect for AJ????

[Big P]

This is a guy who selfishly doesn't do anything or make any statement, unless it fits his own agenda.

Personally, I'd rather he keep his coaching opinions to himself.

:tu

[Big P]

And AJ nut-hangers, like you, will always find an excuse. :lol

No one was happier to see that Finals meltdown than me. On the heels of the Spurs disappointing loss to them, it was a sheer pleasure to watch the Mavs go up in flames.

A meltdown of such proportions means there is blame all around. But do you think that jerk took any of it? No. He stepped up and blamed his players. Great characteristics of a leader.

Go forward and build your statue. :lol

:lmao.....:wakeup

[SequSpur]

WGAF about AJ.

Dude, you guys are so gay for AJ.

[timvp]

I don't give a squat about what Dallas thinks.I've read posts of yours where you quote Dallas Fan, Dallas Owner, Dallas Player and now even Dallas Assistant Coach. You must care somewhat about what they are saying.


I also don't care about his "sparkling" coaching record.Not caring about the coach with the highest winning percentage in NBA history doesn't strike me as objective.


All anyone has to do is look at his playoff resume. AJ is 2-12 in his last 14 playoff games. Winning in the playoffs is damn hard. That is made infinitely harder when your owner is meddling and has backstabbed any authority you had over your own team. You really think Pop could be Pop if he had a meddling owner that didn't give him full autonomy.


The worse thing that could've happened to this lil' jerk was early success. Early success? His first year with the Mavs he lost to the Suns. That's about as low as it gets.

And technically, his first year put in charge of a team he won a championship with the Spurs. Pop was about to get fired and AJ went and re-designed the entire offense and was given full leadership rights and the went on to win the title. So yeah, if that's the success you are talking about, you can classify that as early success.



His success versus the Spurs was easy and simple Beating the Spurs is simple and easy? That's why only AJ and Phil Jackson have beat the Spurs in the last decade? And AJ is the only coach to do it in a series in which he had less talent.

Oh and everyone knows what the Spurs are going to do before they do it. They don't run complicated schemes.


He got badly outcoached by nearly every veteran coach he went up against in the playoffs. Hyperbole much? Jeff Van Gundy and Mike Fratello want to speak with you. Mike D'Antoni would also like to send you a text message.


No one is saying the guy isn't competent. He's just a rigid, stubborn, know-it-all, who resists making changes and slow to make adjustments during the course of a game. Those are not my words. Ask any assistant coach who's ever worked for the guy. Ask Paul Westphal how much input he had with Avery. Ask Del Harris. Better yet, ask any opposing coach he went up against during the playoffs. All these opinions from respected coaches, who have significant resumes of their own, do mean something. First of all, those are the exact same things critics said about Pop before he won a championship. Hell, they still say that about Pop to this day after four championships.

And secondly, would you like to produce any quotes? Those are a lot of accusations to be throwing against the wall without sourcing your work.


It seems that only place AJ is hailed as a coaching genius is here. Who else would have an opinion on him? Dallas is just about the last place any strict coach could flourish ... and he was two wins away from a championship. The Dallas freakin' Mavericks. Two. Wins. Away. That is a damn impressive feat with all the non-basketball distractions a coach has to put up in that town.


When, in fact, he's badly overrated. Word gets out about a coach's shortcomings just as they do about player shortcomings. AJ's got his, except he, and the rest of you AJ defenders, are the only ones who don't have a clue as to what they are.AJ isn't the perfect coach. He can easily rub anyone who comes in contact with him the wrong way. However, unlike others in the game, he's someone who does whatever it takes to win a championship. That is his one and only goal as a head coach. Not to get rich, not to last a long time or make people like him. Just win.

Obviously you have something against that or you've let Dallas Media, Dallas Player and Dallas Owner brainwash you. He's not infallible but to have the regular season success and almost win a championship in that situation with that limited roster is something to be commended for ... not trashed.

[T Park]

Popovich another clear AJ "nut hugger"

[SequSpur]

Simple Simon....

Avery was a decent point guard. Spurs management was trying to replace him every day of his life here. They drafted a 17 year old and then sent his ass packing.

Avery didn't win at Dallas in the playoffs because Dallas isn't built for the playoffs. It has nothing to do with Mark Cuban. Teams win because they have better players.

Avery winning in the regular season doesn't mean shit.

Avery being here today didn't mean shit. Hell, where else is he welcome?

Dude, are you all related to Avery? Avery is a lucky mofo that inherited a very good Don Nelson team that could win 55 + games every year and lose in the playoffs. Shit, he met expectation.. but he didn't exceed at anything.

Let's see Avery take over the Grizzlies and see what he does.

Avery Avery Avery.... Fuck Avery.

[SequSpur]

Where's the let's resign Malik Rose topic???

[duncan228]

Where's whottt?

[T Park]

Simple Simon....

Avery was a decent point guard. Spurs management was trying to replace him every day of his life here. They drafted a 17 year old and then sent his ass packing.

Avery didn't win at Dallas in the playoffs because Dallas isn't built for the playoffs. It has nothing to do with Mark Cuban. Teams win because they have better players.

Avery winning in the regular season doesn't mean shit.

Avery being here today didn't mean shit. Hell, where else is he welcome?

Dude, are you all related to Avery? Avery is a lucky mofo that inherited a very good Don Nelson team that could win 55 + games every year and lose in the playoffs. Shit, he met expectation.. but he didn't exceed at anything.

Let's see Avery take over the Grizzlies and see what he does.

Avery Avery Avery.... Fuck Avery.


Who is this 17 year old that they drafted?

[The Truth #6]

Avery has a great mind for basketball but doesn't know how to relate to people. He is grating and annoying at times, but it was clear that he improved the Mavs when he took over. They were never going to the Finals with Nelson still on board. I don't see how one can't give Avery credit for that.

His intensity worked well for the Mavs in 06 but it quickly faded. Some of that's on him, some of that is because Dallas just sucks.

I see no reason to hate on Avery. He's a part of Spurs history. And to have him associated with us and not the Mavericks in this instance is a positive thing. The more he can disassociate himself from the Mavericks the better.

[SequSpur]

Who is this 17 year old that they drafted?

one Tony Parker ding dong...

[T Park]

one Tony Parker ding dong...

Except he wasn't 17 ding dong. He was 19. Try to get it right when you babble like a moron.

[SequSpur]

oh yeah, you're right.. when he was 17, he was destroying NBA talent and then played 2 more years in France

blow me... Tony Parker was a kid and he removed AJs ass quicker than shit. Still doesn't counter the argument that AJ was ousted by a late first round pick from France who never played nba ball in his life...

[T Park]

oh yeah, you're right.. when he was 17, he was destroying NBA talent and then played 2 more years in France

Uh, huh!?



Still doesn't counter the argument that AJ was ousted by a late first round pick from France who never played nba ball in his life...


What arguement. He was let go at the end of his career, whats that got to do with him as a coach?

Oh yeah, nothing.


Go to bed.

[SequSpur]

Avery is overrated, unemployed, and a former crappy point guard. What else would you like me to add?

[T Park]

Avery is overrated,

?

Overrated how short stuff?


unemployed,

How observant, good for you


and a former crappy point guard.

He wasn't crappy kid. I know you started watching the Spurs in 2002, but give me a break.

.
What else would you like me to add?

Why you give a shit, you don't root for the Spurs nor go to the games anymore.

[anakha]

oh yeah, you're right.. when he was 17, he was destroying NBA talent and then played 2 more years in France

blow me... Tony Parker was a kid and he removed AJs ass quicker than shit. Still doesn't counter the argument that AJ was ousted by a late first round pick from France who never played nba ball in his life...

If you're talking about the incumbent starter that Parker ended up replacing after the first few regular-season games, it wasn't Avery.

Avery Johnson and Tony Parker were never on the same official Spurs roster together:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2001.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2002.html

[SpurSupremacist]

Bring him in. Yes, he's a nutcase. That's a good thing. The Spurs need someone to balance all of their lethargic personalities. Also, lest not forget, he outcoached Popovich a few years ago, and beat him with a far inferior unit... as a rookie coach.

[anakha]

Bring him in. Yes, he's a nutcase. That's a good thing. The Spurs need someone to balance all of their lethargic personalities. Also, lest not forget, he outcoached Popovich a few years ago, and beat him with a far inferior unit... as a rookie coach.

I'm no Mavs fan, but saying that the 2006 Mavs were far inferior to the 2006 Spurs is absolute horseshit.

[SenorSpur]

And secondly, would you like to produce any quotes? Those are a lot of accusations to be throwing against the wall without sourcing your work.


I have no written quotes to supply. However, I have a couple of acquaintances in the Dallas media, who provided me perspective on some of the behind-the-scenes scuttlebutt. Take it for what it's worth.

In the interim, he is an article that describes how AJ's fierce stranglehold can choke the life out of team.

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2008/5/3/472331/the-night-avery-johnson-lo

The Night Avery Johnson Lost The Season, The Team, And His Job
by Jakedfw on May 3, 2008

It was December 6, 2007, and for a Mavs team reeling from its worst stretch of the season it was just one more blow. At home against the Denver Nuggets the Mavs were sliced and diced by Allan Iverson and dropped their second straight game in the process of losing six in nine. Dirk Nowitzki could have been speaking for head coach Avery Johnson when he described the game: "It was a layup drill out there. At no point in the game I thought we could really stop them."

Avery Johnson puts a lot of emphasis on judging his team in 20 game increments, and after what he saw in the previous 19 games, this loss to Denver was more than a symbolic close to the first 20 games of the season: It was the final straw. He had done everything he said he would do coming into the season. He had let young players like Brandon Bass and J.J. Barea get significant playing time. He had unleashed Devin Harris to control the game and the Mavs offense. He had moved Jason Terry to the bench and increased the size of his shooting guard position. For twenty games Avery Johnson had done what everyone else had told him to do, and for what... a thrashing at the hands of the Nuggets?

The result from Johnson was immediate and severe and led to his losing the season, the team, and ultimately his job.

After the Denver loss, the first thing he did was strip Devin Harris of his freedom to run the offense. Fast breaks and offensive sets built off of transition were removed, as Johnson slowed the game down so that he could call plays and run the offense. For the first 20 games the Mavs offense was clocking in at 90 pace, a significant gain over the previous year's glacial offensive pace. As we noted in a previous column, however, the pace was inconsistent. Twice in November Harris directed back-to-back-to-back games where the first game had a pace of over 95, which was followed up with a game where the pace plummeted to under 84, only to have the pace increase again to over 92. This inability to control the pace of the game clearly drove Johnson crazy, and the low point was, not coincidentally, the Denver game on December 6, where the Mavs played completely at Denver's pace, over 100.

The next five games after Denver the Mavs pace never went over 85 and averaged an almost unbelievably slow pace of 83. To put this into perspective, the slowest team in 2006-2007 was the Detroit Pistons, and they averaged a pace of 86. After Denver, Johnson put the hammer down on Harris, and he never let up.

Denver also was the moment when Johnson gave up on working to improve his bench and grow players into the rotation. He dramatically lowered the minutes of Barea, who had averaged 11.3 minutes per game in November but saw his minutes drop to 7 minutes per game in December and 4 minutes per game in January. Dasagana Diop, who averaged 23 minutes per game in November, found himself riding the pine and averaging 12 minutes per game in December. Even Brandon Bass, who showed real flashes of excellence, saw his minutes cut by over 4 a game from November to December.

In short, after the Denver loss, Avery Johnson lost his perspective on the team, what it needed to do, what HE needed to do, and, perhaps most importantly, the value of listening to advice from others. His response was extreme, and it reverted the Mavericks back to the team that lost in the first round of the playoffs the previous season: A one-dimensional iso-focused offensive team that was eminently beatable in a series. Even worse, it was clear as the season wore on that Avery's reversion to his system adversely affected his players, which affected their effort, especially on the defensive end.

Here were my comments at the halfway point of the season:

By now you should be seeing a pattern: The Mavericks defense is slightly worse in every single aspect other than fouling the opposition. There are two things to take from this: The first is that the Mavericks are suffering death by papercut on defense. The small declines in multiple defensive categories adds up to a significant decline overall. The second thing to take from this is that there is a reason for what we're seeing: A drop in overall defensive aggressiveness.

Make no mistake about it: Avery Johnson is a very good defensive coach, but if the players don't have their heart into it, you see what I outlined above. After Denver, Johnson's moves demoralized the team. Even if they didn't say it, you could see it in their performance on the court.

Certainly we can't blame one game for Johnson giving up on all of the important tasks that he had to tackle coming into the season, but the game was absolutely a turning point. It was after this game that Johnson gave up on all those important initiatives and adjustments that the team needed to move ahead. After twenty games of chaos and a debacle against Denver, Johnson retreated to what he was comfortable with: His system. His offense. His rotations. His plays. His way.

[T Park]

I have a couple of acquaintances in the Dallas media, who provided me perspective on some of the behind-the-scenes scuttlebutt

In other words.

I'm making it up.

[SenorSpur]

Avery has a great mind for basketball but doesn't know how to relate to people. He is grating and annoying at times, but it was clear that he improved the Mavs when he took over. They were never going to the Finals with Nelson still on board. I don't see how one can't give Avery credit for that.

His intensity worked well for the Mavs in 06 but it quickly faded. Some of that's on him, some of that is because Dallas just sucks.

I see no reason to hate on Avery. He's a part of Spurs history. And to have him associated with us and not the Mavericks in this instance is a positive thing. The more he can disassociate himself from the Mavericks the better.

All great points.

He is a more than competent coach and he took the Mavs further than they ever would've gotten with any other coach. However, like former Cowboys coach Bill Parcells, his attitude and personality dictate that he's got a relatively short shelf-life. He simply cannot get out of the way of his own ego. He should borrow a page out of the Popovich handbook and "get over himself"

[SenorSpur]

In other words.

I'm making it up.

Keep building your statue sweetie :lol

[T Park]

Keep building your statue sweetie :lol

I didn't want his number retired.


Sorry to burst your bubble kiddo.

[timvp]

I have no written quotes to supply.So after sourcing half the known basketball universe who supposedly lambasted AJ's capabilities to properly coach, you can't come up with one quote to back that massive claim?


However, I have a couple of acquaintances in the Dallas media, who provided me perspective on some of the behind-the-scenes scuttlebutt. Take it for what it's worth.I thought you just told me you "didn't give a squat" about what Dallas thinks. No offense to you but Dallas media has zero credibility in my eyes. They are a hyperbole loving, controversy creating, bandwagoning bunch. Dallas Media can be entertaining and they have some of the best sports radio in the nation, but it's literally the last place I'd look to get factual NBA information. I'll listen to SequSpur before I listen to talking head in Dallas if facts are what I'm after.


In the interim, he is an article that describes how AJ's fierce stranglehold can choke the life out of team.

A blog post written after AJ got fired about an event that happened five months earlier doesn't tell me anything. Especially when what the blog is criticizing him of is a move that Pop does every single season.

The bottomline regarding AJ's tenure is that he could no longer help the team win with smoke and mirrors. Eventually, teams with not enough talent are exploited. AJ never coached a Mav team that was talented enough to win an NBA championship and that lack of talent became even more apparent once Cuban took away most of his authority and they traded for a player who could never fit in his system. The day the Mavs traded for Kidd was the day AJ truly got fired.

All of the criticisms of AJ are almost word for word criticisms people had (or even have) of Pop. They both have abrasive coaching styles and demand an ungodly amount of effort and perfection from their players. The difference is Pop has full autonomy and this guy named Tim Duncan on his team.

[timvp]

Spurs Notebook: 'Little General' surveys camp
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Spurs_Notebook_Little_General_surveys_camp.html

Spurs coach Gregg Popovich enjoys the company of great basketball minds, so it is never a surprise when other head coaches, past or present, visit the Spurs practice facility.

Wednesday's visitor to Spurs training camp, though, was special.

Avery Johnson, the former Spurs star and 2005-06 NBA Coach of the Year who was deposed as head coach of the Dallas Mavericks after the 2007-08 season ended, was on-hand at the team's practice facility, and Popovich hinted he will be around for a while longer.

“It's great having Avery here,” Popovich said, “because he's special to all of us in San Antonio, especially the Spurs family, and it's good fun. I get a chance to talk basketball with him and talk family and just laugh and have a good time. But my feelings having him here are kind of mixed, because I wish he were still coaching.

“He's doing a good thing. He's taking a break, spending a lot of time with family. He's staying involved by seeing different programs here and there, but we get the benefit of having him around right now. It's wonderful, in a lot of ways, having him here in training camp.”

Mavericks owner Mark Cuban this week told theDallas Morning-News that several Mavericks players told him after the season that if he did not fire Johnson, they wanted to be traded.

Popovich did not address that issue Wednesday, but said Johnson had grown as a coach during his time in Dallas.

“All these jobs in the NBA are volatile for a variety of reasons,” he said. “What Avery has expressed to me is that he had a great opportunity there and he enjoyed being able to do what he did. You get a job in the NBA and it's really a special thing. He learned a lot, enjoyed it, made some special friends. Now he moves on.”

The Spurs, Popovich said, will benefit from Johnson's presence.

“He's got a great feel for the game, both on a fundamental basis, and as far as what it takes to win in the NBA,” he said. “We'll take advantage of that, and he'll add something to our program, without a doubt.”

[Obstructed_View]

I'm sure it's been said before, but I've particularly enjoyed having a guard that's getting paid millions of dollars of Mark Cuban's money to contribute to the Spurs. I'd love few things more than having an assistant coach do the same.

[timvp]

Avery Johnson, the former Spurs star and 2005-06 NBA Coach of the Year who was deposed as head coach of the Dallas Mavericks after the 2007-08 season ended, was on-hand at the team's practice facility, and Popovich hinted he will be around for a while longer.

Hopefully AJ is given a role similar to what Kelvin Sampson had last year. As long as he's not paid, he'll likely be able to keep the millions he has coming from Cuban.

Last season the Spurs didn't defend as well as usual and would sometimes shoot too many three-pointers. Those happen to be two of AJ's biggest coaching strengths. He turned the Mavs from a no defense playing, three-point bombing unit to a well oiled, half court oriented machine. If he could get on the players about defense and maybe convince a couple of the shooters to drive to the basket every now and again, that would help out.

[milkyway21]

I don't know if I'd want AJ to be around SA org for good but I'd be more thoughtful if he's somewhere else and observing camp with other WC teams such as Houston or Phoenix. It's odd though that some wouldn't credit Avery for adding a D to _allas team, good enough to win a WC finals in 2006, beating the 2005 champs Spurs.

[roycrikside]

Oh. My. God. If I have to tolerate another minute of this AJ nonsense I'm going to lose my mind. TimVP I respect a lot of your knowledge and viewpoints, but I believe on this one instance you have a blind spot (or maybe a soft spot) for AJ, and it probably is for very much the same reason Pop does - namely AJ the player.

Pop is always going to stick up for AJ because if it wasn't for his toughness and leadership in 1999 he probably would've gotten fired, probably would've never gotten another head coaching gig and in Pop's words, "Probably would've been back at Pamona-Pitzer" (or wherever the fuck he coached).

You similarly have that same love for AJ because in some subconscious way you probably think if the Spurs didn't get that first title in '99 they never would've found the requisite cojones for titles two, three, or four.

I know it's very hard to do LJ, but I think the point Whott and many others try to make is this - If you could just remove 1999 from the equation and look at Avery's history both before then and after, you'd realize he is one gigantic douche and completely unworthy of your respect or praise.

Consider that he

1. Trashed the franchise's savior, David Robinson and told him that "Jesus didn't love him" because he played poorly in some basketball game. Perspective much?

2. Made a big stink because Manu Ginobili wanted his uniform number. Who does he think he is, a Hall of Famer? Manu was part of an Argentina team that handed the US their first ever loss while playing with NBA players in the '02 World Championships. That single accomplishment trumped AJ's whole career.

3. He belittled Tony Parker and criticized the decision to draft him. Parker by his second season was a better player than AJ ever was.

4. As coach of the Mavs he constantly preached dirty play, flagrant fouls, and bullshit macho posturing, thereby rejecting the Spurs culture he supposedly learned from.

5. As coach of the Mavs he routinely lost his composure with the media, blamed referees, pointed fingers at his players and generally acted unprofessionally, again rejecting the Spurs culture he supposedly learned from.

As far as his coaching goes, I agree with others, the theory that he's a great coach is a myth and it has been exposed numerous times. First of all, let's end the "He outcoached Pop" charade, okay? The Mavs outplayed San Antonio ONE FREAKING GAME THE WHOLE SERIES. Game 2, that's it. Games 3 and 4 were outright abominations and anyone who wasn't completely blind and who have half a memory realize it. We "lost" those games because we couldn't win 5 against 8, that simple. We won Games 5 and 6 and Game 7 was a coin flip they lucked out on because of a) a dumb foul by Manu (there, I said it) and b) a total bs non-call against Dirk on Timmy at the end of regulation.

Take the '06 semis out of the equation and show me where AJ outcoaches anybody. They beat Phoenix because the Suns were without Amare. The Heat defense figured them out halfway through Game 3 and Dallas stopped scoring. Don Nelson, another overrated coach, completely handed Avery his hat in '07 and Johnson was so unnerved that he completely changed a lineup that won 67 games that regular season prior to Game 1. In '08 Avery the Genius head coach didn't change the offense at all despite acquiring Jason Kidd in a trade and tried to use him as a round peg to fit a triangular hole by having him be a spot up shooter in an ISO offense. Brilliant! It was obvious that Johnson was against the Kidd trade, but he quit coaching the team in protest and refused to make any adjustments.

What exactly is AJ's coaching claim to fame? His winning percentage? I'm with Sequ on this one (for once) - Big Fucking Deal. Most rookie coaches aren't given the keys to a 55+ win NBA team. If the '08 Celtics were Doc Rivers' first coaching job, he'd be the all time win % leader. It doesn't mean he's a great coach.

I just wish LJ and TPark could take off the '99 Rose Colored Glasses when it comes to AJ and deal with the totality of his professional career.

Say what you want guys but if I go up to any Spurs fan and ask them which famous Spur I'm talking about and the clue I give is: "Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole 1999 Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Now" I'm pretty sure they'd come up with only one guess:

Avery Frickin' Johnson.

[timvp]

Oh. My. God. If I have to tolerate another minute of this AJ nonsense I'm going to lose my mind. TimVP I respect a lot of your knowledge and viewpoints, but I believe on this one instance you have a blind spot (or maybe a soft spot) for AJ, and it probably is for very much the same reason Pop does - namely AJ the player.I've always admitted AJ wasn't much of a player. He's the least naturally talented player to have his jersey retired in NBA history. He achieved whatever he achieved as a player due to hard work and drive to win. He had no skill to fall back on.


Pop is always going to stick up for AJ because if it wasn't for his toughness and leadership in 1999 he probably would've gotten fired, probably would've never gotten another head coaching gig and in Pop's words, "Probably would've been back at Pamona-Pitzer" (or wherever the fuck he coached). Sounds like a pretty good reason to me.


You similarly have that same love for AJ because in some subconscious way you probably think if the Spurs didn't get that first title in '99 they never would've found the requisite cojones for titles two, three, or four.That's not why I respect AJ. But yeah, if the Spurs didn't win that first title, they wouldn't have even been in San Antonio for the next three. To downplay that meaningfulness of that initial championship is ignoring the big picture.


I know it's very hard to do LJ, but I think the point Whott and many others try to make is this - If you could just remove 1999 from the equation and look at Avery's history both before then and after, you'd realize he is one gigantic douche and completely unworthy of your respect or praise. Simply not true.



1. Trashed the franchise's savior, David Robinson and told him that "Jesus didn't love him" because he played poorly in some basketball game. Perspective much? David Robinson considered AJ his best friend before and after those remarks. If Robinson isn't going to hold it against him, why should anyone else? That makes no sense.


2. Made a big stink because Manu Ginobili wanted his uniform number. Who does he think he is, a Hall of Famer? False. AJ wasn't a part of the backlash that got Manu's number taken away. That was lead by the San Antonio media (Don Harris, in particular).


3. He belittled Tony Parker and criticized the decision to draft him.Only partly true. AJ didn't criticize the draft decision.


4. As coach of the Mavs he constantly preached dirty play, flagrant fouls, and bullshit macho posturing, thereby rejecting the Spurs culture he supposedly learned from. Since Pop has taken over the Spurs, one of main goals has been to eliminate the "soft" label this team had. Pop isn't as open with his demand for physical play but he definitely preaches physical play as much as AJ did with the Mavs. Pop just knows to do that in the lockerroom. AJ was working for the voyeur owner so nothing he did could ever stay behind closed doors.


5. As coach of the Mavs he routinely lost his composure with the media, blamed referees, pointed fingers at his players and generally acted unprofessionally, again rejecting the Spurs culture he supposedly learned from.Two words: Mark Cuban. Compared to Cuban, AJ doesn't even appear on the radar. Again, Pop's autonomy is a big reason why he can control every last detail. AJ couldn't control any detail.


As far as his coaching goes, I agree with others, the theory that he's a great coach is a myth and it has been exposed numerous times. First of all, let's end the "He outcoached Pop" charade, okay? The Mavs outplayed San Antonio ONE FREAKING GAME THE WHOLE SERIES. Game 2, that's it. Games 3 and 4 were outright abominations and anyone who wasn't completely blind and who have half a memory realize it. We "lost" those games because we couldn't win 5 against 8, that simple. We won Games 5 and 6 and Game 7 was a coin flip they lucked out on because of a) a dumb foul by Manu (there, I said it) and b) a total bs non-call against Dirk on Timmy at the end of regulation.You just got on AJ for blaming refs and pointing fingers and the very next paragraph you *gasp* blame refs and point fingers.

Classic.


Take the '06 semis out of the equation and show me where AJ outcoaches anybody. They beat Phoenix because the Suns were without Amare. The Heat defense figured them out halfway through Game 3 and Dallas stopped scoring.Yes because not being able to score has been solved by every quality coach including Gregg Popovich.


Don Nelson, another overrated coach, completely handed Avery his hat in '07 and Johnson was so unnerved that he completely changed a lineup that won 67 games that regular season prior to Game 1.Are you talking about Warriors '07 or Warriors '91? The overrated Nelson beat a better Spurs team with a worse Warriors team with Larry Brown and Pop on the opposing sideline.


In '08 Avery the Genius head coach didn't change the offense at all despite acquiring Jason Kidd in a trade and tried to use him as a round peg to fit a triangular hole by having him be a spot up shooter in an ISO offense. Brilliant!What coach in the NBA would seamlessly be able to transform an isolation team to a Jason Kidd led team in the middle of a season? That's an absurdly high expectation.


What exactly is AJ's coaching claim to fame? His winning percentage? Having the highest winning percentage in NBA history in the regular season and getting the limited talent that was the '06 Mavs two wins from the NBA championship are two impressive feathers in the ol' coaching hat. If you want to dismiss every current coach that hasn't won a championship with their current team, you are only going to have three left standing.


Say what you want guys but if I go up to any Spurs fan and ask them which famous Spur I'm talking about and the clue I give is: "Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole 1999 Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Now" I'm pretty sure they'd come up with only one guess:

Avery Frickin' Johnson.Yeah they probably would. But then again, a large majority of Spurs fans are either bangwagoners or weren't even Spurs fans back prior to '99.

I'm fine if you are other Spurs fans want to hang AJ out to dry with Mark Cuban and the rest of the city of Dallas. I honestly couldn't care less. Such Spurs fans can go shoulder to shoulder with Cuban. I'll stay on the other side of the fence with Pop, Robinson, Elliott and AJ's retired jersey.

:hat

[Obstructed_View]

I know it's very hard to do LJ, but I think the point Whott and many others try to make is this - If you could just remove 1999 from the equation and look at Avery's history both before then and after, you'd realize he is one gigantic douche and completely unworthy of your respect or praise.
Even Whottt wouldn't make a point that stupid. The '99 title is part of AJ's history. You can't remove it from the equation, so even suggesting it isn't sensible, but in the six years after he came back from Golden State, AJ averaged 11.6 points and 7.7 assists per regular season game, while missing a grand total of 13 of them. During that time, the Spurs averaged 48 wins per season, including the terrible 20 win season and a strike shortened 50 game season where the Spurs won 37 games. How that is somehow unworthy of either respect or praise completely escapes me. That's even if he didn't lead the team to an NBA title and hit the series clinching shot, which he did.


1. Trashed the franchise's savior, David Robinson and told him that "Jesus didn't love him" because he played poorly in some basketball game. Perspective much?
I believe he told David that Jesus would be ashamed that he wasn't playing to the limits of his God-given ability. Motivation is a lot different from trashing. Fact check much?

[Shank]

Avery is supposed to be taking a gig with ESPN, doing TV this Fall. That's the last I've heard. I think he's good with taking Cuban's money for free and doing a little TV work.

[T Park]

I believe he told David that Jesus would be ashamed that he wasn't playing to the limits of his God-given ability. Motivation is a lot different from trashing. Fact check much?

That little fact doesn't go with the AJ hater's mentality.

They just love to call him asshole and say "but but but but he coached the mavericks!!!!!!"

[Fabbs]

Pop was about to get fired and AJ went and re-designed the entire offense and was given full leadership rights and the went on to win the title.
Thus Controlovich vowed that never again would he turn the offense over to anyone. :rollin

Bring on Dumb and Dumber! :toast

[SenorSpur]

All of the criticisms of AJ are almost word for word criticisms people had (or even have) of Pop. They both have abrasive coaching styles and demand an ungodly amount of effort and perfection from their players. The difference is Pop has full autonomy and this guy named Tim Duncan on his team.

I agree with you on the similar criticisms of Pop, pre-championships. I also completely agree with you about their similar coaching styles. Furthermore, we know that all coaches have egos. You have to in that profession. However for all those comparisons, I'm going to give you a big contrast.

Anyone who knows anything about Pop knows that, despite his success, he firmly believes in the motto "GET OVER YOURSELF". That goes for his players and himself. Can you ever imagine Pop refusing to take input from Duncan?

Pop is smart enough to know that he needed to forge a relationship with the team's best player. He was also smart enough to fortify that relationship over time, with the objective of achieving something great. It takes a different kind of coach to then get out of the way and allow the players to enjoy the accolades. He never put himself ahead of his team or his superstar. That, my friend, is coaching maturity. That is selflessness. All are traits that Avery either doesn't possess, hasn't learned or hasn't recognized that he needs to succeed as a coach.

Dirk was on local sports radio just this morning and claimed that he "wished he had a better relationship with Avery". It was his opinion that Avery "didn't allow such a relationship and kept himself at a distance from virtually everyone on the team and the coaching staff". We can all bash Dirk all we want, and when the season starts, I will. However, he's still the big dog on the Mavs team. If a coach doesn't have the support and buy-in from the best player, he's dead man walking -figuratively.

With all due respect to your defense about Avery, these are flaws that you seem to be ignoring in your assessment of his coaching tenure. You can dismiss my input all you want. I'm merely providing a local perspective to counter all this "over-to-top" sentiment for Avery as some coaching savant and to expose the fact that he has serious flaws.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/092608dnspomavslede.1ac545d.html

Dallas Mavericks' Nowitzki reflects on 'tough year'

12:58 AM CDT on Friday, September 26, 2008
By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News
[email protected]

The blunt question made Dirk Nowitzki uncomfortable. But it didn't necessarily catch him by surprise, like he knew it was coming sooner or later:

If Avery Johnson was still coaching the Dallas Mavericks, would Nowitzki still be on the team?

It was more than just a rumor last season that Nowitzki had grown tired of Johnson's system and coaching style. But was it really as bad as the whispers made it sound?

"I had a good time with Avery," Nowitzki said Thursday. "But sometimes I wish we had communicated a little more. We all know Avery ran a little dictatorship here. I think this league is still a league of players, not a coaches league."

To the players, that's what Johnson forgot. And that's what rubbed players the wrong way in the end.

Nowitzki touched on a variety of topics, including his contract situation and, of course, the coaching change.

Johnson's regimented style, along with his lack of offensive creativity, were two of the things that wore down Nowitzki and his teammates.

"You know me, I'm not always on the edge," Nowitzki said about whether he and Johnson could have lasted another season together. "I usually keep stuff on the inside.

"It was a tough year for me, I've got to admit. I had a lot of bad games in November and December. And after that, I got to playing better, and Jason [Kidd] really helped my game after the All-Star Game. But it was an up-and-down year, and up-and-down years are never fun. I had to play hurt for us to get to the playoffs, and that obviously is not what we play for."

And as for the Mavericks' offense that slowed to a crawl, particularly in the playoffs, Nowitzki said:

"Avery had a really strong will of what should go on out there, and he controlled the game a lot. I don't think there was enough movement going on. People were just sitting on our stuff, especially in the playoffs. We just couldn't score enough.

"I don't think we got enough easy stuff, either on the break or on cuts. Everything was post-ups or contested shots. It wasn't easy. I don't want to use this year to bash Avery. He took us to the Finals and did a phenomenal job. He came in and brought fire and enthusiasm."

[Bruno]

It takes some time before being an elite coach. It's a job where experience has a big role. AJ was a young coach, it isn't a surprise that he has made some mistakes with Dallas.

Now connect the dots :
- AJ was under contract until 2011 with Mavs for $4M per year.
- It seems that beign back in the NBa will make him lose these $4M per year.
- AJ reputation is quite low now with Cuban and Mavs players trashing him.
- Pop should retire in 2012.

[tav1]

It takes some time before being an elite coach. It's a job where experience has a big role. AJ was a young coach, it isn't a surprise that he has made some mistakes with Dallas.

Now connect the dots :
- AJ was under contract until 2011 with Mavs for $4M per year.
- It seems that beign back in the NBa will make him lose these $4M per year.
- AJ reputation is quite low now with Cuban and Mavs players trashing him.
- Pop should retire in 2012.

I'm not sure those big dots connect without us seeing some more small dots in between. But it's an interesting scenario.

Does AJ have an analyst contract in place with one of the networks?

[Spurs Brazil]

Avery Johnson, the former Spurs star and 2005-06 NBA Coach of the Year who was deposed as head coach of the Dallas Mavericks after the 2007-08 season ended, was on-hand at the team's practice facility, and Popovich hinted he will be around for a while longer.

I don't see any problem with AJ at camp.

I think he'll only help and I hope he stays longer

[roycrikside]

Bold is timvp...


False. AJ wasn't a part of the backlash that got Manu's number taken away. That was lead by the San Antonio media (Don Harris, in particular).<<

AJ could've ended it by just telling Harris to get a life. He didn't, so I'm guessing it mattered to him a little bit.


Since Pop has taken over the Spurs, one of main goals has been to eliminate the "soft" label this team had. Pop isn't as open with his demand for physical play but he definitely preaches physical play as much as AJ did with the Mavs. Pop just knows to do that in the lockerroom. AJ was working for the voyeur owner so nothing he did could ever stay behind closed doors.

Not being soft and being dirty are too different things. Spurs don't get flagrant fouls. They don't punch people in the balls or whack them across the head and face.

Two words: Mark Cuban. Compared to Cuban, AJ doesn't even appear on the radar. Again, Pop's autonomy is a big reason why he can control every last detail. AJ couldn't control any detail.

I hate Cubes as much as anyone, but I don't think he was the one telling Avery to flip out in press conferences and to get an attitude with the media. You're giving him way too much credit there. Don Nelson certainly didn't act that way. It's not like it's a contract clause working with Cuban that says coaches have to act as unprofessionally as he does.

You just got on AJ for blaming refs and pointing fingers and the very next paragraph you *gasp* blame refs and point fingers.

Classic.

Uh, news flash, I've never coached or played basketball for the San Antonio Spurs.


Yes because not being able to score has been solved by every quality coach including Gregg Popovich.

I think most people who objectively look at the two two rosters, the '06 Heat and the '06 Mavs would come to the conclusion that Dallas had the better team. AJ got outcoached and let the refs get into his head. He panicked and had the team switch hotels and all that silly stuff.

Are you talking about Warriors '07 or Warriors '91? The overrated Nelson beat a better Spurs team with a worse Warriors team with Larry Brown and Pop on the opposing sideline.

Uh, that '91 Spurs team had no bench and nobody who could shoot. How many three pointers did they hit in the four games, like five? Six maybe? That team had no chance to win anything.

What coach in the NBA would seamlessly be able to transform an isolation team to a Jason Kidd led team in the middle of a season? That's an absurdly high expectation.

Perhaps AJ could've made that point clear to Mr. Cuban before the trade was made then. Or perhaps he could've trusted Harris more, which would've prevented the trade from ever being made (not that I'm complaining).

Having the highest winning percentage in NBA history in the regular season and getting the limited talent that was the '06 Mavs two wins from the NBA championship are two impressive feathers in the ol' coaching hat. If you want to dismiss every current coach that hasn't won a championship with their current team, you are only going to have three left standing.

'06 was a fluke. He got by the Spurs thanks to some crappy officiating and some luck in Game 7. He was mere seconds away from being the mastermind of one of the all-time playoff flops if Dallas blew a 3-1 lead to the Tinyball Spurs. Then he got to face a Suns team sans Stoudemire. Usually a WCF is supposed to be kinda hard, no? Losing to Miami was unforgivable, any way you slice it. That Heat team was the worst NBA champ of the last 30 years. Would the Spurs have lost to that team in a million tries? Hell no. We probably would've swept them. AJ showed exactly how good of a coach he was the next year losing to Nellie. A real coach would never allow a #1 seed to lose to a #8. Never, ever, ever. They didn't just lose, they got their asses kicked in three of the games.


Yeah they probably would. But then again, a large majority of Spurs fans are either bangwagoners or weren't even Spurs fans back prior to '99.

I'm fine if you are other Spurs fans want to hang AJ out to dry with Mark Cuban and the rest of the city of Dallas. I honestly couldn't care less. Such Spurs fans can go shoulder to shoulder with Cuban. I'll stay on the other side of the fence with Pop, Robinson, Elliott and AJ's retired jersey.


You live too much in the past. I've been a Spurs fan since '89, but I realize that the Spurs aren't about Robinson, Elliott and AJ anymore and haven't been for a long time. Three of the four titles came with Tony and Manu as the big cogs. And at the end of the day it was Tim that was the reason for all four, including the first. You make it sound like Avery belongs on the Spurs Mt. Rushmore and he simply doesn't, not as a player, and certainly not by anything he's done since he retired. Also, please give him more credit and responsibility for his Dallas shortcomings. He's his own man and was never Cuban's lackey or puppet. He always spoke for himself and made his own bed with his decisions. By dismissing such things and sweeping the things about AJ that disappoint you as "Cuban's fault" you're insulting him a lot more than I ever could.

[tp2021]

It takes some time before being an elite coach. It's a job where experience has a big role. AJ was a young coach, it isn't a surprise that he has made some mistakes with Dallas.

Now connect the dots :
- AJ was under contract until 2011 with Mavs for $4M per year.
- It seems that beign back in the NBa will make him lose these $4M per year.
- AJ reputation is quite low now with Cuban and Mavs players trashing him.
- Pop should retire in 2012.

I'm assuming you are hinting at the possibility of Avery becoming the head coach. What about Mike Bud? If Pop retires, does Bud stay on the staff? I would assume Pop might want Bud to take over, and Bud would offer Avery an assistant position. I don't think either would want to be the assistant to the other, since Avery has already been a head coach, and Bud has been here longer on the coaching staff. I think I would rather have Mike be the head coach if/when Pop retires.

[ChuckD]

I don't think that because Pop likes AJ that they're somehow alike. Shit, one of his best friends is Larry Brown, and he's as despicable and two faced a person as you'll ever meet. I think Pop and AJ want the same kind of system, but the players take it from Pop because he has a pea sized ego. He never takes credit, and almost never calls out an individual player.

[Slippy]

An experienced head with the credentials of AJ at training camp can only be a good thing for the Spurs. I like how Pop added he has learnt from his coaching stint in Dallas. Welcome back to the spurs family AJ! A thoughtful move from POP and co.

[ulosturedge]

Seems like a lot of posters in this thread are post Avery/Drob/Sean E. era.

Yup. Apparently people hate to appreciate their roots. Can't wait 10 years from now when new Spurs Fans start praising their new spurs players and start saying stuff like "Shit Manu and Tony were no where near as good as so and so(future stars)!"


See what these guys would have to say then lol. We will see one day.

[SequSpur]

You live too much in the past. I've been a Spurs fan since '89, but I realize that the Spurs aren't about Robinson, Elliott and AJ anymore and haven't been for a long time. Three of the four titles came with Tony and Manu as the big cogs. And at the end of the day it was Tim that was the reason for all four, including the first. You make it sound like Avery belongs on the Spurs Mt. Rushmore and he simply doesn't, not as a player, and certainly not by anything he's done since he retired. Also, please give him more credit and responsibility for his Dallas shortcomings. He's his own man and was never Cuban's lackey or puppet. He always spoke for himself and made his own bed with his decisions. By dismissing such things and sweeping the things about AJ that disappoint you as "Cuban's fault" you're insulting him a lot more than I ever could.

Exactly... Fuck Avery.

[T Park]

Vince Carter > Ginobili.

Take what he says with a grain of salt.