Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrorists'

[George Gervin's Afro]

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/04/palin-accuses-obama-palling-terrorists/



Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrorists'
Sarah Palin takes a swipe at Barack Obama for his ties to Bill Ayers, founder of a 1960s radical group.

FOXNews.com

Saturday, October 04, 2008



Sarah Palin speaks at a rally at Saint Louis University after the vice presidential debate Thursday. (AP Photo)

Sarah Palin, using some of her strongest language to date to question the character of the Democratic presidential nominee, accused Barack Obama on Saturday of "palling around with terrorists."

Palin, speaking at a closed fundraiser in Colorado, was referencing Obama's ties to Bill Ayers, a founder of the 1960s radical group The Weather Underground. That relationship was examined in a front-page article in The New York Times on Saturday.

"This is not a man who sees America as you see America, and as I see America," Palin said. "Our opponent, though, is someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect -- imperfect enough that he's palling around with terrorists who would target their own country. Americans need to know this. ... I think, OK we gotta get the word out. This is in fairness to the electorate we gotta start telling people what the other side represents."

The Times article she mentioned concluded that Obama and Ayers did not appear to be close.

Obama spokesman Hari Sevugan released a statement in response accusing McCain's campaign of launching "Swiftboat-like attacks in hopes of deflecting attention from the nation's economic ills."

He said the Times article made clear that Obama and Ayers were not close, "much less 'pals'."

Ayers' group took credit for bombings, including nonfatal explosions at the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol four decades ago.

Ayers now is a professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago. He and Obama live in Chicago's Hyde Park neighborhood and served together on the board of the Woods Fund, a Chicago-based charity that develops community groups to help the poor. Obama left the board in December 2002, and he has denounced Ayers' past activities.

The McCain campaign has indicated it will step up its attacks on Obama's character and judgment in the final month of campaigning.

Palin, for instance, said on Friday that some of Obama's statements on America's foreign policy should disqualify him from being president.

"Some of his comments that he has made about the war that I think may -- in my world -- disqualifies someone from consideration as the next commander in chief," Palin told FOX News. "Some of his comments about Afghanistan and what we are doing there, supposedly just air-raiding villages and killing civilians. That's reckless."

She was referring to Obama's remarks last summer about Afghanistan in which he said: "We've got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops that we're not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians which is causing enormous problems there."

Republicans lashed out at him at the time, though the Associated Press published a fact-check shortly afterward that showed, by their count at the time, Western forces had killed 286 civilians in the country, compared with 231 killed by militants in 2007.

The escalated effort to question Obama's character dovetails with TV ads by outside groups questioning Obama's ties to Ayers, convicted former Obama fundraiser Antoin "Tony" Rezko and Obama's former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

McCain adviser Nancy Pfotenhauer followed up on both of Palin's remarks Saturday, citing Obama's Afghanistan comments and ties to Ayers in questioning his judgment.

"Apparently Senator Obama has no problem associating with someone like that, and somehow thinks that this unrepentant terrorist is rehabilitated," she told FOX News.


Stench of desperation? You betcha!

[Clandestino]

its called the truth.

you lie with the dogs you gets fleas... obama never thought as a community organizer anyone would ever give a fuck if he listened to the hatred spewed by his rev or if he hung out with terrorists

[George Gervin's Afro]

its called the truth.

you lie with the dogs you gets fleas... obama never thought as a community organizer anyone would ever give a fuck if he listened to the hatred spewed by his rev or if he hung out with terrorists

Oh well hang your hat on this non existent relationship...

[ChumpDumper]

Nobody has explained why this could possibly matter.

[Yonivore]

Oh well hang your hat on this non existent relationship...
It's hardly non-existent and, despite having written two -- yes two! -- autobiographies, Barak Obama has yet to commit in writing anything about what he is claiming to be his most important "executive" experience -- his time at the Chicago Annenburg Challenge.

Why do you think that is?

Me? I think it's because he would either 1) have to lie about his activities during those years or 2) demonstrate his association with William Ayers and other radical activists is closer than American voters would tolerate in a prospective president.

But, I'd still like to hear why you think he avoided his CAC years when penning his autobios.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Nobody has explained why this could possibly matter.

HOw much longer before a 'he's a closet muslim' ad comes out?

[Spurminator]

HOw much longer before a 'he's a closet muslim' ad comes out?

They don't need an ad. Campaigns don't use mass media for those kinds of smears.

[baseline bum]

I hope Obama comes back with Charles Keating undeniably being one of McCain's close friends. Kind of relevant now with what this nation is going through.

[George Gervin's Afro]

It's hardly non-existent and, despite having written two -- yes two! -- autobiographies, Barak Obama has yet to commit in writing anything about what he is claiming to be his most important "executive" experience -- his time at the Chicago Annenburg Challenge.

Why do you think that is?

Me? I think it's because he would either 1) have to lie about his activities during those years or 2) demonstrate his association with William Ayers and other radical activists is closer than American voters would tolerate in a prospective president.

But, I'd still like to hear why you think he avoided his CAC years when penning his autobios.


Or he didn't know the guy real well.

[Yonivore]

Or he didn't know the guy real well.
Well, at least you've stepped away from "non-existent" but, I wasn't talking about the fact that he didn't mention his relationship with Ayers in the books...hell, he didn't even talk about his time at the CAC.

What's up with that? I mean, now it's his most important executive experience, according to him...yet, it doesn't get a write up in either of his two -- I just can't get over the fact he's written two fucking autobiographies already -- autobiographies.

[Yonivore]

Not to mention he seems ashamed of the influence Saul Alinky's ideologies have had on him and can only write of his mentor "Frank," using his first name because, well, he's a communist too.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Well, at least you've stepped away from "non-existent" but, I wasn't talking about the fact that he didn't mention his relationship with Ayers in the books...hell, he didn't even talk about his time at the CAC.

What's up with that? I mean, now it's his most important executive experience, according to him...yet, it doesn't get a write up in either of his two -- I just can't get over the fact he's written two fucking autobiographies already -- autobiographies.


Sorry, he might non have known him which would make it a non existent relationship. Sorry Yoni now matter how hard you right wingers try you won't make this bullshit stick

[George Gervin's Afro]

Not to mention he seems ashamed of the influence Saul Alinky's ideologies have had on him and can only write of his mentor "Frank," using his first name because, well, he's a communist too.

Can you find any proof of tis nonsense? I begining to think you and whott need zero proof to make olutlandish claims.. Oh well I am going to enjoy you having to call Obama Mr President

[Yonivore]

Sorry, he might non have known him which would make it a non existent relationship. Sorry Yoni now matter how hard you right wingers try you won't make this bullshit stick
I'm still curious. Why did he not mention his CAC years (1995-2001) in his autobiographies?

And why would he only refer to his mentor "Frank Marshall Davis" as "Frank," when he wrote of him at all?

Just curious.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm still curious.

Why would any of this matter?

Just curious.

[Yonivore]

Can you find any proof of tis nonsense? I begining to think you and whott need zero proof to make olutlandish claims.. Oh well I am going to enjoy you having to call Obama Mr President
Obama’s Communist Mentor (http://www.aim.org/aim-column/obamas-communist-mentor/)

Barack Obama and Bill Ayers: Stanley Kurtz Makes the Connection (http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/rich-noyes/2008/09/23/barack-obama-bill-ayers-stanley-kurtz-makes-connection)

Obama's Alinsky Jujitsu (http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/01/obamas_alinsky_jujitsu.html)

None of which, of course, you'll hear from the MSM

[George Gervin's Afro]

I'm still curious. Why did he not mention his CAC years (1995-2001) in his autobiographies?

And why would he only refer to his mentor "Frank Marshall Davis" as "Frank," when he wrote of him at all?

Just curious.

So you are going to make me prove an accusation that you've made up. What exactly are you accusing Obama of?

[Yonivore]

For Clinton and Obama, a Common Ideological Touchstone (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/24/AR2007032401152.html)

Here's one from the mainstream media but, they apparently thought the connection with Alinsky was a good thing and romanticize it.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I am going to wait for one ounce of solid proof that Obama ha more than passing relationship with Ayers. Of couse The Yonis of the world don't care whether it's true because they just want to win the election.

[George Gervin's Afro]

For Clinton and Obama, a Common Ideological Touchstone (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/24/AR2007032401152.html)

Here's one from the mainstream media but, they apparently thought the connection with Alinsky was a good thing and romanticize it.

Obama was 23?

[Yonivore]

So you are going to make me prove an accusation that you've made up. What exactly are you accusing Obama of?
1) I believe his relationship with William Ayers is deeper and more significant than he's admitted and for reasons he knows would be political suicide.

2) I believe he has socialist -- bordering on Alinsky-inspired communist -- tendencies that will inform his policy-making as president and have already garnered him the title of most liberal politician on Capitol Hill.

3) I believe he didn't mention his ties to Davis and Ayers (or Alinksy influences) for the simple fact he know it would doom him politically.

There, that's what I'm accusing Barak Obama of.

So, again, why do you think he failed to mention CAC in his two (:lmao) autobiographies?

[Yonivore]

Obama was 23?
So? He wasn't 23 when he went to work for Ayers and he wasn't 23 when he wrote the autobiographies that pretty much ignore this period of his life.

[ChumpDumper]

So he's a communist who will bomb the Pentagon. He is a member of the CPUSA and has planted bombs in the past.

Thanks.

[ChumpDumper]

So? He wasn't 23 when he went to work for Ayers and he wasn't 23 when he wrote the autobiographies that pretty much ignore this period of his life.He was 8 when the WU was planting bombs.

It's all very important!

[ChumpDumper]

“I saw no evidence of a radical streak, either overt or covert, when we were together at Harvard Law School,” said Bradford A. Berenson, who worked on the Harvard Law Review with Mr. Obama and who served as associate White House counsel under President Bush. Mr. Berenson, who is backing Mr. McCain, described his fellow student as “a pragmatic liberal” whose moderation frustrated others at the law review whose views were much farther to the left.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/politics/04ayers.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&hp&adxnnlx=1223125398-X0pbP8R5G%208V%20%20LWzVGtPQ

Oh noes!

[TomBrady]

The saddest thing I've seen thus far in the campaign is video from a recent McCain town hall debate. One his supporters asked him when he's going to attack Obama to which everyone cheered. It's fucking disgusting what the Republican Party has become. This is all a sports game to them, they don't give a shit what happens so long as they win.

McCain can go negative all he wants, it isn't going to work against Obama. Hilary tried it and failed. We have 30 days left, if this is where McCain is at then he has already lost.

[George Gervin's Afro]

1) I believe his relationship with William Ayers is deeper and more significant than he's admitted and for reasons he knows would be political suicide.

2) I believe he has socialist -- bordering on Alinsky-inspired communist -- tendencies that will inform his policy-making as president and have already garnered him the title of most liberal politician on Capitol Hill.

3) I believe he didn't mention his ties to Davis and Ayers (or Alinksy influences) for the simple fact he know it would doom him politically.

There, that's what I'm accusing Barak Obama of.

So, again, why do you think he failed to mention CAC in his two (:lmao) autobiographies?


You also believe Bush is going to be on Mount Rushmore:rollin

[MannyIsGod]

You also believe Bush is going to be on Mount Rushmore:rollin

Oh snap.

:lmao

[boutons_]

Yoni still believes there were WMDs in Iraq and all the other lies dubya told Yoni about Iraq.

Yoni has long been faith-based, dickless, suckered object of ridicule.

[baseline bum]

You also believe Bush is going to be on Mount Rushmore:rollin

You never know. Yoni strikes me as the type who'd be willing to strap some dynamite to his chest with a bunch of followers and carve Bush's grill into the side of the mountain with it.

[PEP]

He could be associating with Bin Laden and his supporters wouldnt care. Not that there's anything wrong with that, you can hang out with anyone you want.

[baseline bum]

He could be associating with Bin Laden and his supporters wouldnt care. Not that there's anything wrong with that, you can hang out with anyone you want.

Do you care that McCain liked to hang out with Charles Keating?

[Anti.Hero]

If you have radical ties that will not even get you basic security level clearance were you to apply to the FBI/CIA...


Run for pres!




I really missed out on life not having a racist communist mentor as a kid :(

[ChumpDumper]

If you have radical ties that will not even get you basic security level clearance were you to apply to the FBI/CIA...Do you have a list of those criteria handy?

[sook]

god i wanna put a match ins palin's mouth, light it, and fart on her face. This bitch doesn't even know when to talk after all the shit shes done...

The repubs have stooped way too low, the election is already out of their hands.

[Yonivore]

We have 30 days left,...
The term "October Surprise" exists for a reason.

[Yonivore]

You also believe Bush is going to be on Mount Rushmore:rollin

So, why did he not address his CAC years in his autobiographies? You asked me what my accusations were, and I answered with what I believe.

Where's your response?

[Yonivore]

Do you care that McCain liked to hang out with Charles Keating?

Yeah, I cared. He's apologized and spent his career since, making up for it. Obama won't even admit he has a relationship with Ayers and he's thrown just about everyone else under the bus from his grandmother to Wright.

So, why didn't he cover the CAC years in either of his two autobiographies? It really seems like a legitimate question to me.

[ChumpDumper]

Damn yoni, could you be any more desperate?

Try finding a real issue for once.

[boutons_]

pitbull bitch makes up shit like McLame, neither one has a micogram of morals or ethics, or any reference to external norms, both have pathological solipsism

pitbull bitch thinks the whole process is joke that that she can wink and con-job her way through.

fucking embarrassing for McLame to insult the process and ridicule "country first"

[George Gervin's Afro]

Yeah, I cared. He's apologized and spent his career since, making up for it. Obama won't even admit he has a relationship with Ayers and he's thrown just about everyone else under the bus from his grandmother to Wright.

So, why didn't he cover the CAC years in either of his two autobiographies? It really seems like a legitimate question to me.


I really don't care yoni. And to be honest with you no one else does either. Wait, I stand corrected. Only hard the core neocons who are depserate to do anything to keep him from winning the WH care. Let's be honest. You just don't like him and will cling to anything that hurts him.

[ElNono]

The actual question to Palin was: Can you name 5 US presidents from the 20th century?

[George Gervin's Afro]

The actual question to Palin was: Can you name 5 US presidents from the 20th century?

Now your playing gotcha journalism

[Shastafarian]

Now your playing gotcha journalism

And it's just plain mean. You can't expect her to know that.

[Yonivore]

I really don't care yoni. And to be honest with you no one else does either. Wait, I stand corrected. Only hard the core neocons who are depserate to do anything to keep him from winning the WH care. Let's be honest. You just don't like him and will cling to anything that hurts him.
You don't care? Okay.

More like, you don't know of a plausible reason he would omit 6 years of his life, 6 years he's relying on heavily now, from his two -- that's right folks two -- autobiographies.

So, now we know, for GGA, it's Obama or bust...it doesn't matter what he's hiding or what he's been involved in. The Afro has made up his mind and goddamnit, it wouldn't matter, at this point, if Obama had taken an oath to Satan.

You're as incurious as the press.

[George Gervin's Afro]

You don't care? Okay.

More like, you don't know of a plausible reason he would omit 6 years of his life, 6 years he's relying on heavily now, from his two -- that's right folks two -- autobiographies.

So, now we know, for GGA, it's Obama or bust...it doesn't matter what he's hiding or what he's been involved in. The Afro has made up his mind and goddamnit, it wouldn't matter, at this point, if Obama had taken an oath to Satan.

You're as incurious as the press.

Were you concerened with your mount rushmore president's pastcocaine abuse? Past Alcohol abuse? The former CEOs penchant for overseeing failed companies?

By the way I was leaning towards McCain until he picked the hockey mom.

[Yonivore]

Were you concerened with your mount rushmore president's pastcocaine abuse? Past Alcohol abuse? The former CEOs penchant for overseeing failed companies?
No. Besides, Obamas been there too...oh, except for never having been the CEO of anything.

So, why did he not include the CAC years in his two autobiographies?

[Shastafarian]

No. Besides, Obamas been there too...oh, except for never having been the CEO of anything.

So, why did he not include the CAC years in his two autobiographies?

You've read both his books?

[George Gervin's Afro]

No. Besides, Obamas been there too...oh, except for never having been the CEO of anything.

So, why did he not include the CAC years in his two autobiographies?

Ok? You had no problem with a man who abused alcohol and drugs. Ran companies into the ground yet your concerned about a 23 yr old college student who know some old socialist guy? Or better yet. worried about a supposed relationship with an unrepetent terrorist? a relationship t has never been proven?

[George Gervin's Afro]

You've read both his books?

Well certainly he has. You don't think he got his information from a right wing blog or anything do you?

[ploto]

Give me a break. Everyone knows John McCain cheated on his first wife with Cindy when he was a lot older than Obama was when he knew this guy. How they can be such hypocrits amazes me.

[Yonivore]

7C3383QdT2g

[Anti.Hero]

You can't even question a potential president about questionable ties to questionable people anymore.

We are fucked.

[Shastafarian]

7C3383QdT2g

I'll take that as a, "no I haven't read either book. I'm getting my information from biased sources. I'm sorry I've been such a douchebag." Thanks for being honest Yoni.

[George Gervin's Afro]

You can't even question a potential president about questionable ties to questionable people anymore.

We are fucked.

He's been asked. Over and over and over and over, and over ,and over. I have zero doubt that people like you a toni and have been digging four the last 6 months for ANYTHING to tie Obama to anyone of these guys.ZERO proof, but,but,but we just want to ask him about his past relationships.

[Buddy Holly]

Can ANYONE explain why McCain spent his 70th birthday on a boat rented out to a guy who was just sent to prison for fraud?

http://thesuperficial.com/2008/09/11/0911_anne_hathaway_mccain_00.JPG

Come on... ANYONE.

Or this:


A few months after McCain's yacht party, Follieri strengthened his ties to McCain's orbit by retaining Rick Davis's well-connected Washington lobbying firm, Davis Manafort, and offering Davis both an investment deal and help in securing the Catholic vote for McCain's presidential bid.

Mic check... anyone anyone...

[Buddy Holly]

Let's see... Obama spends time on a educational board in Chicago with a man who committed domestic terrorism acts when Obama was 8.

McCain spends his 70th birthday two years ago with a man who not only retained the lobbying firm of McCain's top aide and current co-manager of his campaign but was recently convicted and sentenced to prison for fraud.

Hmmm....

ANYONE?

[Buddy Holly]

You can't even question a potential president about questionable ties to questionable people anymore.

We are fucked.

I just threw out some questions, let's see how fast you get up to the plate. :toast

[Buddy Holly]

See, here's the thing. Obama interacts with a man who committed crimes almost 40 years ago. The right wants to vilify him because, he talks and socializes with a man who committed crimes almost 40 YEARS AGO, so long ago most who are reading this weren't even born. So long ago, TV was still in standard black and white. So long ago, fuck, a long time ago.

McCain socialites with a man who at the time was committing crimes. He celebrates his birthday with the con man. Connects him with Davis and his lobbyist.

Yet, why is Obama constantly on the hot seat about "relationships?"

[George Gervin's Afro]

This thread has all of a sudden suffers from a lack of conservative participation?

[Yonivore]

This thread has all of a sudden suffers from a lack of conservative participation?
You refused to answer my question and then started babbling about President Bush's (not running for office in this election) alleged problems ...why should I participate anymore?

So, get me back in the game...why, exactly, do you believe Barak Obama failed to mention his 6 years at the CAC -- six years of experience he now claims is the qualifier for his executive experience -- in either of his two autobiographies.

[Shastafarian]

You refused to answer my question and then started babbling about President Bush's (not running for office in this election) alleged problems ...why should I participate anymore?

So, get me back in the game...why, exactly, do you believe Barak Obama failed to mention his 6 years at the CAC -- six years of experience he now claims is the qualifier for his executive experience -- in either of his two autobiographies.

Maybe he should answer when you've answered my question (which you dodged). You've read both his books?

[Yonivore]

Maybe he should answer when you've answered my question (which you dodged). You've read both his books?
Nope. But, if what I said were not true, someone would have disputed or refuted it. They haven't.

There, do you release him to answer mine?

[101A]

“I saw no evidence of a radical streak, either overt or covert, when we were together at Harvard Law School,” said Bradford A. Berenson, who worked on the Harvard Law Review with Mr. Obama and who served as associate White House counsel under President Bush. Mr. Berenson, who is backing Mr. McCain, described his fellow student as “a pragmatic liberal” whose moderation frustrated others at the law review whose views were much farther to the left.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/politics/04ayers.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&hp&adxnnlx=1223125398-X0pbP8R5G%208V%20%20LWzVGtPQ

Oh noes!

As Obama is going to be our next president, I find this quote comforting.

Thanks, Chump.

Obama's rhetoric has been decidedly un-radical. His plan for healthcare, also, is reasonable, and not an over-reaching govt. power grab (I think he may get some backlash when the left figures this out).

Palin's quote, however "accurate" it might be, is not intelligent at this point in the race. It indicates desperation. It's not going to work, and is going to turn undecideds off. As much as the race for the WH, IMO, is over, McCain could still do a lot of damage to congressional races by running a ridiculous campaign to close this out.

[Shastafarian]

Nope. But, if what I said were not true, someone would have disputed or refuted it. They haven't.


Someone? Like Who? Where are you getting your information?

[Yonivore]

Someone? Like Who? Where are you getting your information?

Sorry, that's question #2...get GGA to answer mine first.

[Shastafarian]

Sorry, that's question #2...get GGA to answer mine first.

I have no control over what he does. Since you don't get basic cable, I'm wondering where you get your information on books you have never read.

[Yonivore]

Oh, and speaking of desperation -- disgusting desperation:

mRY3njcGgWU

I'm sure Obama will condemn these ads and ask they be pulled...

[boutons_]

"I'm sure Obama will condemn these ads and ask they be pulled..."

Any lies in there?

[Shastafarian]

While you're trying to remember where you heard about his books, why don't you go and read up on the U.S. Council for World Freedom. McCain sat on the board. It has been described as "extremist", "racist", and "anti-semitic". See what Joe Coors did.

[Yonivore]

I have no control over what he does. Since you don't get basic cable, I'm wondering where you get your information on books you have never read.

Your previous post presumes otherwise, I think.


Maybe he should answer when you've answered my question (which you dodged). You've read both his books?

Anyway, I'll move forward when he does. If you want to refute the substance of my claims, read the books yourself and report back.

[boutons_]

Ayers was a Weatherman when Obama was less than 10 years old. Ayers went on to a productive, lawful life.

Keating was a criminal when McKeating was a Senator and pressuring regulators to lay off Keating, while frequently a guest of Keating in Bahamas. McKeating received official sanction from Congress. Keating went on to jail.

Does McLoser's camp really want to play the guilit-by-association game?

[Shastafarian]

Your previous post presumes otherwise, I think.
Then the whole "reading" and "understanding" concepts were lost on you.




Anyway, I'll move forward when he does. If you want to refute the substance of my claims, read the books yourself and report back.

:lol That's not how it works. The onus is on YOU to provide evidence of your claims. You still haven't said where you hear about substance of the books.

[Yonivore]

Then the whole "reading" and "understanding" concepts were lost on you.

:lol That's not how it works. The onus is on YOU to provide evidence of your claims. You still haven't said where you hear about substance of the books.
Well, good luck with that whole defining how things work. Please, go forward with whatever punishment you intend to mete out for my insolence.

[Shastafarian]

Well, good luck with that whole defining how things work. Please, go forward with whatever punishment you intend to mete out for my insolence.

Hey I'm happy as long as you keep dodging questions. You continue to make yourself look like an ass.

[Yonivore]

Hey I'm happy as long as you keep dodging questions. You continue to make yourself look like an ass.
Well, as long as your happy.

[Buddy Holly]

Can ANYONE explain why McCain spent his 70th birthday on a boat rented out to a guy who was just sent to prison for fraud?

http://thesuperficial.com/2008/09/11/0911_anne_hathaway_mccain_00.JPG

Come on... ANYONE.

Or this:



Mic check... anyone anyone...

[Buddy Holly]

Let's see... Obama spends time on a educational board in Chicago with a man who committed domestic terrorism acts when Obama was 8.

McCain spends his 70th birthday two years ago with a man who not only retained the lobbying firm of McCain's top aide and current co-manager of his campaign but was recently convicted and sentenced to prison for fraud.

Hmmm....

ANYONE?

[Yonivore]

Let's see... Obama spends time on a educational board in Chicago with a man who committed domestic terrorism acts when Obama was 8.
Actually, by calling the Weathermen (or Weather Underground) a 60's radical organization, the New York Times article is either wrong or intentionally misrepresents the facts in order to provide cover and make idiots like you spout nonsense like this.

In fact, Barack Obama was 20 -- and already involved in his chosen ideological circles -- when the Weathermen committed their last act of terror, killing three people. And, given Obama's long association with Rezko, et. al. would seem to cancel whatever you think this means to McCain.

And, given that Ayers, as late as 2003, was still unrepentent and wished he had done more during his terrorist day -- is unpersuasive in making me believe he didn't harbor these same ideals and sentiments while he and Obama worked closely together at the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.


McCain spends his 70th birthday two years ago with a man who not only retained the lobbying firm of McCain's top aide and current co-manager of his campaign but was recently convicted and sentenced to prison for fraud.

Hmmm....

ANYONE?
Well, I don't know the guy, the nature of his crime or the context in which McCain is seen with him. Please enlighten us.

[Shastafarian]

Well, I don't know the guy, the nature of his crime or the context in which McCain is seen with him. Please enlighten us.

How about McCain serving on the board of a group that has been described as "extremist", "racist", and "anti-Semitic"?

[Yonivore]

You know, I must say, I'm impressed at how many on the far left in here are able to tow the line on the Ayers cover-up. After all, William Ayers is somewhat of a hero to the far left. But, of course, is is a love that dare not speak its name -- particularly when the most liberal, far left, member of Congress is so close to capturing the brass ring.

But hey, Let’s cut through the crap. Why is he a hero?

The reason some on the Left love Bill Ayers is that he’s an unrepentant bomber who attacked the Pentagon to try to “end” the war — which is lefty lingo for losing the war.

He is a friend (sue me, if you're too blind by partisanship to see this) of Democrat Barack Obama, who launched his political career -- at his home -- and had him appointed to one of those lofty-sounding foundations that are really the old radicals working within the system.

They know if the public associates the two as friends, it is fatal to Obama’s campaign.

Personally, I'm glad Republican John McCain and his running mate plan to make that association.

But, the New York Times was ready to provide a needed inoculation (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/politics/04ayers.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin) against whatever fallout there may be. That's why they ran today's story that is basically Obama and Ayers saying they hardley know each other.

We’ll see if that works.

The Times called Ayers a 1960s bomber when in fact the bombings were began in 1970 and ended with the 1981 robbery of a Brinks truck which left two terrorists (named in the story) two police officers (not named) and a Brinks guard (also not named) dead.

Ayers famously said 20 years later in a story published in the New York Times on 9/11 that he has no regrets– other than that he did not cause more mayhem.

This was said not when Obama was 8 or 11 or 20 (when the Brinks robbery happened), but when Obama was 40. Ayers said this 6 years after he met Obama -- although there is some evidence they may have met much earlier -- and was working within the "system."

Some on the Left consider Ayers a hero.

Consider Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist Jane Smiley’s (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-smiley/william-ayers-and-john-mc_b_131883.html) post on the Huffington Post. She argues that what Ayers did was no different than the bombings runs made by Republican John McCain.

She scoffs at the idea of patriotism. She hates the military. She hates McCain because he was in the military. And she loves Ayers because he not only hates the military, but he tried to blow it up.

On 9/11, there were 3 targets. One was the Pentagon and it was hit. I wonder if Ayers or Smiley were pleased.

And, for that reason, I wonder how close Obama is to these traitors. You should too.

[boutons_]

"Ayers cover-up"

yonivore lies: there's nothing to cover up, neither about Ayers-HUSSEIN nor about Keating-McKeating

[Yonivore]

How about McCain serving on the board of a group that has been described as "extremist", "racist", and "anti-Semitic"?
Being described as and actually being something are two different things. The Weathermen were not described as terrorists -- they were terrorists...terrorists that targeted America.

Plus, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[Yonivore]

So, do you care to speculate about why Obama failed to discuss the CAC in his two books or should I wait for your review of the tomes?

[Shastafarian]

Being described as and actually being something are two different things. The Weathermen were not described as terrorists -- they were terrorists...terrorists that targeted America.

Plus, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

I already posted it. He served on the Board of The U.S. Council for World Freedom. The group has been described as being extreme. The man who founded it helped out the Contras. They were terrorists.

[Shastafarian]

So, do you care to speculate about why Obama failed to discuss the CAC in his two books or should I wait for your review of the tomes?

No I don't care to answer because you obviously haven't read either book. Tell me where you heard about the substance in each and I'll consider it. Assuming your source isn't WND or Rush Limbaugh.

[Yonivore]

First, you have the New York Times with its inoculation of the Obama campain -- now you have the Associated Press (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93KD6Q00&show_article=1) providing cover by insinuating Governor Palin is a racist for even broaching the subject.

The AP's article is an "analysis" by one Douglass K. Daniel, described as "a writer and editor with the Washington bureau of The Associated Press." It has to be read to be believed:


By claiming that Democrat Barack Obama is "palling around with terrorists" and doesn't see the U.S. like other Americans, vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin targeted key goals for a faltering campaign. And though she may have scored a political hit each time, her attack was unsubstantiated and carried a racially tinged subtext that John McCain himself may come to regret. ...

Her reference to Obama's relationship with William Ayers, a member of the Vietnam-era Weather Underground, was exaggerated at best if not outright false. No evidence shows they were "pals" or even close when they worked on community boards years ago and Ayers hosted a political event for Obama early in his career. ...

Palin's words avoid repulsing voters with overt racism. But is there another subtext for creating the false image of a black presidential nominee "palling around" with terrorists while assuring a predominantly white audience that he doesn't see their America?

In a post-Sept. 11 America, terrorists are envisioned as dark-skinned radical Muslims, not the homegrown anarchists of Ayers' day 40 years ago. With Obama a relative unknown when he began his campaign, the Internet hummed with false e-mails about ties to radical Islam of a foreign-born candidate.

Whether intended or not by the McCain campaign, portraying Obama as "not like us" is another potential appeal to racism. It suggests that the Hawaiian-born Christian is, at heart, un-American.

Most troubling, however, is how allowing racism to creep into the discussion serves McCain's purpose so well. ...

John McCain occasionally looks back on decisions with regret. He has apologized for opposing a holiday to honor Martin Luther King Jr. He has apologized for refusing to call for the removal of a Confederate flag from South Carolina's Capitol.

When the 2008 campaign is over McCain might regret appeals such as Palin's perhaps more so if he wins.
When the McCain campaign ran an ad that had a white woman in it, it was denounced as racist. When it ran an ad that had an African-American man (Franklin Raines) in it, it was denounced as racist. Now the McCain campaign links Obama to a white man, the former terrorist, and still anti-American, Bill Ayers. That's racist too. I think we've exhausted just about all the possibilities. The only non-racist thing McCain can do, apparently, is concede the election.

There once was a time when the Associated Press was a respected news-gathering agency. Some years ago, it began to abandon that mission in order to transform itself into a liberal advocacy organization. That transformation is now pretty much complete.

2008 will be remembered, I think, as the year in which the collapse of traditional American media became irreversible. The AP has plenty of company.

[Yonivore]

I already posted it. He served on the Board of The U.S. Council for World Freedom. The group has been described as being extreme. The man who founded it helped out the Contras. They were terrorists.
I'm sorry, I pay little attention to you unless you're addressing me directly and, even then, it's a crap shoot.

Described by whom?

And, the Weathermen are pretty much universally accepted as a terrorist organization.

[Yonivore]

No I don't care to answer because you obviously haven't read either book. Tell me where you heard about the substance in each and I'll consider it. Assuming your source isn't WND or Rush Limbaugh.
Okay, then don't.

Well, it wasn't WND or Rush -- neither of which do I read or listen.

[Shastafarian]

And, the Weathermen are pretty much universally accepted as a terrorist organization.

You keep going back to the Weathermen. Fine. But you have nothing to say about John McCain's affiliations with a man who funded terrorism?!?!? For shame!

[ChumpDumper]

You know, I must say, I'm impressed at how many on the far left in here are able to blah, blah, blah.

Now Yoni has tried to steal the identity of Don Surber.

http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/2008/10/04/the-bill-ayers-cover-up/

Yoni is a thief and a liar.

[Yonivore]

You keep going back to the Weathermen. Fine. But you have nothing to say about John McCain's affiliations with a man who funded terrorism?!?!? For shame!
Were they "terrorizing" Americans? Were they considered "terrorists" by everyone?

One man's terrorists is another man's freedom fighter, no? So, unless you're prepared to call the Weathermen "freedom fighters" (and that would beg explanation), there's no comparison between the two.

Plus, did McCain have a personal relationship with an unrepetent terrorist? Do tell.

[Shastafarian]

Were they "terrorizing" Americans? Were they considered "terrorists" by everyone?

One man's terrorists is another man's freedom fighter, no? So, unless you're prepared to call the Weathermen "freedom fighters" (and that would beg explanation), there's no comparison between the two.

Wow. So because they didn't kill americans, they're not terrorists. I'm gonna stop talking to you now. I'll leave you with this:


The record of the contras in the field, as opposed to their official professions of democratic faith, is one of consistent and bloody abuse of human rights, of murder, torture, mutilation, rape, arson, destruction and kidnapping

[ChumpDumper]

It's obvious the Annenberg Challenge was designed to indoctrinate little terra-ists to bomb government installations, banks, local hockey rinks, American car dealerships and Cracker Barrel restaurants nationwide. I mean look at at all the radicals it produced -- the Weather Underground now has tens of thousands of members ready to kill you and everyone you love.

[Yonivore]

I'm gonna stop talking to you now.
Yeah, right...promises, promises.

[Yonivore]

So, were the Salvadoran guerrillas -- supported by the Sandinistas -- terrorists?

Gets kinda muddy. The Weathermen, on the other had, are distinctly terrorists -- terrorists that targeted our families...

Yeah, there's a big difference.

[Buddy Holly]

Well, I don't know the guy, the nature of his crime or the context in which McCain is seen with him. Please enlighten us.

Quit being lazy and look it up.

[Yonivore]

Quit being lazy and look it up.

Color me incurious.

[Buddy Holly]

You know, I must say, I'm impressed at how many on the far left in here are able to tow the line on the Ayers cover-up. After all, William Ayers is somewhat of a hero to the far left. But, of course, is is a love that dare not speak its name -- particularly when the most liberal, far left, member of Congress is so close to capturing the brass ring.

Considering I'm more of a liberal independent than a straight up democrat, I find it quite funny that you can generalize anyone that doesn't see a "cover up" or any real big issue story with Obama and Ayers, as someone who considers Ayers a hero. You're such a whack job it isn't funny.

Maybe

But hey, Let’s cut through the crap. Why is he a hero?


He is a friend (sue me, if you're too blind by partisanship to see this) of Democrat Barack Obama, who launched his political career -- at his home -- and had him appointed to one of those lofty-sounding foundations that are really the old radicals working within the system.

So you can't be a acquittance with someone who committed crimes in the far past without being guilty by proxy? Unless Obama helped Ayers commit more crimes when they were "paling around", THIS IS A NON-ISSUE.


They know if the public associates the two as friends, it is fatal to Obama’s campaign.

How long has this been going around? FOX News can't stop trying to pair the two together for the life of them. Hell, what about the big media storm Wright caused? Hasn't hurt Obama at all.

Though I will predict that if McCain and Palin keep this up it will tremendously hurt them.



Personally, I'm glad Republican John McCain and his running mate plan to make that association.

No one is surprised. You're one drop below scrum yourself.

[Buddy Holly]

Color me incurious.

Color me shocked...

[ChumpDumper]

Color me incurious.Like the rest of America concerning Ayers.

If he's so dangerous, why are you just sitting around letting him teach the youth of America?

Coward.

[Yonivore]

Color me shocked...
Frankly, I could care less what you are.

If it were such a big deal, you'd go out of your way to explain exactly how nefarious is McCain's association with the guy on the yacht. But, you want the less curious to connect the dots for you. Good luck with that...

You and Shasta's "...not not how things work...," priceless.

[ChumpDumper]

If it were such a big deal, you'd go out of your way to explain exactly how nefarious is McCain's association with the guy on the yacht.Exactly how nefarious is Obama's association with Ayers?

You haven't explained that at all.

[Shastafarian]

Frankly, I could care less what you are.


I said I would stop talking to you but pointing out someone's stupidity is fun. This means you care. Nice work!

[Buddy Holly]

Frankly, I could care less what you are.

If it were such a big deal, you'd go out of your way to explain exactly how nefarious is McCain's association with the guy on the yacht. But, you want the less curious to connect the dots for you. Good luck with that...

Well, maybe just maybe I don't think it's that big of a deal. Though it's certainly a bigger deal than Obama and Ayers for the simple fact these two "paled around" two years ago while he was committing the crimes he was recently sent to prison for.

The thing is, you fail to see the lame as hypocritical double standard you and the rest of your scummy repubs have set.

You guilt Obama by association with no problem but the minute anyone tries to guilt McCain by association you take offense and find a reason or excuse to dissolve it.

[Shastafarian]

Well, maybe just maybe I don't think it's that big of a deal. Though it's certainly a bigger deal than Obama and Ayers for the simple fact these two "paled around" two years ago while he was committing the crimes he was recently sent to prison for.

The thing is, you fail to see the lame as double standard you and the rest of your scummy repubs have set.

You guilt Obama by association with no problem but the minute anyone tries to guilt McCain by association you take offense and find a reason or excuse to dissolve it.

I'm still wondering where he gets his information from since it's clear he has read neither of Obama's books.

[Yonivore]

Considering I'm more of a liberal independent than a straight up democrat, I find it quite funny that you can generalize anyone that doesn't see a "cover up" or any real big issue story with Obama and Ayers, as someone who considers Ayers a hero. You're such a whack job it isn't funny.

Maybe

But hey, Let’s cut through the crap. Why is he a hero?
First of all, I didn't say it was out of love for Ayers or that you considered him a hero...I said it was due to blind partisanship -- wanting Obama to be president -- that you refuse to see the connection.

Nice try though.


So you can't be a acquittance with someone who committed crimes in the far past without being guilty by proxy? Unless Obama helped Ayers commit more crimes when they were "paling around", THIS IS A NON-ISSUE.
First of all, only Ayers crimes were pre-Obama. His ideology -- and unrepentent behavior -- persisted right through the Annenberg years, when his and Obama's "acquaintanceship" occurred, through 2001 when he stood on a wadded up American flag and declared his wish that he'd wreaked more havoc during his Weathermen years...on to today.

But, again, I hardly think, the two are merely acquaintenances. Obama was selected by Ayers to head his brainchild, the Annenberg Challenge. Not something people would entrust to a stranger...particularly one without any reputation in community organizing, at that point. I don't buy it...I'm not sure why you continue to.


How long has this been going around? FOX News can't stop trying to pair the two together for the life of them. Hell, what about the big media storm Wright caused? Hasn't hurt Obama at all.
Well, duh; when you've got other media outlets -- such as the New York Times and the Associated Press -- willing to inoculate and divert attention, it's no surprise the public is confused or skeptical of the claims.

And, the Wright storm? It was dropped when Obama threw his pastor and church, of 20 years, under the bus. Nice play.


Though I will predict that if McCain and Palin keep this up it will tremendously hurt them.
Depends on how well they are able to substantiate the connection...we'll see.


No one is surprised. You're one drop below scrum yourself.
Sticks and stones and all that...yadda, yadda.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm still wondering where he gets his information from since it's clear he has read neither of Obama's books.He gets it from bloggers who haven't read either of his books.

[Yonivore]

I said I would stop talking to you but pointing out someone's stupidity is fun. This means you care. Nice work!
Can't help yourself...you're like the Buscemi character in Fargo.

[xrayzebra]

Can you find any proof of tis nonsense? I begining to think you and whott need zero proof to make olutlandish claims.. Oh well I am going to enjoy you having to call Obama Mr President


And sing songs to dear leader. Comrade Obama.:toast

[Yonivore]

Also, from 1985 to 1988, Barack Obama was the Director of a civic group called the Developing Communities Project.

During the same time period, William Ayers was the coordinator of something known as the ABCs Coalition.

In the Spring of 1988, before Barack went off to Harvard, the Developing Communities Project was a member of Ayer's ABCs Coalition in its work for school reform.

Hmmm...how likely is it that a Director of the Developing Communities Project would not have met the coordinator of a coalition, put together to achieve common interests?

But wait, there's more.

From 1981-1983 both Barack Obama and William Ayers were on the Columbia University Campus and lived near one another.

I wonder why Obama was so guarded about his Columbia transcripts -- He refuses to release them -- and, in fact, two separate investigations into the Obama years at Columbia (and another college, Occidental) -- have turned up very little. Why is Obama so reluctant to discuss those years?

Yeah, I think he's deliberately lying about his relationship with William Ayers and I think he's done a lot of work to erase any connection to the terrorist, through the years.

[ChumpDumper]

and, in fact, two separate investigations into the Obama years at Columbia (and another college, Occidental) -- have turned up very little.Pretty much all of your witch hunts have turned up very little.

Because there just isn't anything there.

[Yonivore]

Is it another "coincidence" that Obama received a summer job at Sidley & Austin (where he met Michelle Obama) in 1989 -- at a time when William Ayers' wife, Bernadine Dohrn, was also working there?

And, let's remember...Barack Obama contends that he did not meet William Ayers until 1995, when he was appointed Chair of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.

[ChumpDumper]

And let's remember...none of this means anything. :tu

[SnakeBoy]

This stuff doesn't matter. When they release the video of Obama banging the white hooker, that'll be the end of him. Gotta wait until there's not enough time for the dems to drop him and go with Hillary though.

[TomBrady]

Yonivore the burden of proof is on the accuser.

Either come up with some substantive facts to support these accusations you are making or STFU and stop making threads.

[TomBrady]

This stuff doesn't matter. When they release the video of Obama banging the white hooker, that'll be the end of him. Gotta wait until there's not enough time for the dems to drop him and go with Hillary though.

That's your only hope at this point.

Funny how Republicans are banking on people being racist for them to win this election.

[Yonivore]

That's your only hope at this point.

Funny how Republicans are banking on people being racist for them to win this election.
What has any of this to do with his race?

[Yonivore]

In the video, Barack Obama admits that one of his major qualifications for political office was the job terrorist Bill Ayers gave him. In this video Obama also calls Rev Meeks, Father Pfleger, and Jeremiah Wright his friends


D-45A6I-N5I

[ChumpDumper]

Do you think spamming the forum repeatedly will make this somehow relevant?

[Buddy Holly]

How the hell does this Yonivore person have 13,580 posts?

Are they all relegated to the Political forum?

[ChumpDumper]

They are all about Bill Ayers, too.

[Yonivore]

How the hell does this Yonivore person have 13,580 posts?
Diligence.


Are they all relegated to the Political forum?
I think so.

[baseline bum]

They are all about Bill Ayers, too.

:lol

[Buddy Holly]

Diligence.


http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/fat-fail.jpg



I think so.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o317/nalabitz/untitled.jpg

[Yonivore]

Whatever helps you get through it all, Buddy.

Can't respond to the information I post, attack me. I can take it.

[boutons_]

Palin's Attack On Obama's Patriotism Legitimizes Questions About The Palins' Association With Group Founded By America-Hating Secessionist


"she repeatedly courted a secessionist group founded by someone who openly professed hatred of the American government, cursed our flag, and wanted to secede from the Union. Sarah's husband, Todd Palin, was a member of this group, which continues to venerate that founder to this day, for years."

"the group is the Alaska Independence Party, which sees as its ultimate goal seceding from the union. Todd was a member, with a brief exception, from 1995 until 2002, according (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/todd_palin_was_registered_memb.php) to the Division of Elections in Alaska. "

"In 1994, Palin attended the group's annual convention, according to witnesses who spoke to ABC News' Jake Tapper. The McCain campaign has confirmed she visited the group's 2000 convention, and she addressed its convention this year, as an incumbent governor whose oath of office includes upholding the Constitution of the United States."

"The founder of the AIP was a man named Joe Vogler."

Vogler has also said (http://www.akip.org/introduction.html): "I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/palins_attack_on_obamas_patrio.php

=========

So pitbull bitch "associated with" and apparently was sympathetic to AIP, her red-neck husband a member of AIP, when she was an adult and governor of Alaska, not when she was 8 years old.

MUCH stronger "guilt by association" with anti-American, profoundly unpatriotic AIP for pitbull bitch than any association of HUSSEIN with anything

[Buddy Holly]

Whatever helps you get through it all, Buddy.

Yeah, googling funny pictures to post on a forum is totally what gets me through it all.

Just a tremendous and well thought out retort.


Can't respond to the information I post, attack me. I can take it.

What information? All you've done is make unfounded claim after unfounded claim and provided almost nothing substantial to back it up.

:lmao

[Purple & Gold]

Palin, for instance, said on Friday that some of Obama's statements on America's foreign policy should disqualify him from being president.

"Some of his comments that he has made about the war that I think may -- in my world -- disqualifies someone from consideration as the next commander in chief," Palin told FOX News. "Some of his comments about Afghanistan and what we are doing there, supposedly just air-raiding villages and killing civilians. That's reckless."

She was referring to Obama's remarks last summer about Afghanistan in which he said: "We've got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops that we're not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians which is causing enormous problems there."

Is it just me or does anybody think that this is just ridiculous and downright scary if she really thinks this??

[Yonivore]

Is it just me or does anybody think that this is just ridiculous and downright scary if she really thinks this??
I think its downright offensive that Obama was accusing our military of indiscriminately bombing villages.

It should disqualify him.

I'll re-phrase, I think it's a fair characterization of someone that is offended by his comments that he should be disqualified because of his outrageous comments.

[SnakeBoy]

Is it just me or does anybody think that this is just ridiculous and downright scary if she really thinks this??

She's so scary. I'm afraid. Hold me.

[Purple & Gold]

I think its downright offensive that Obama was accusing our military of indiscriminately bombing villages.

It should disqualify him.

I'll re-phrase, I think it's a fair characterization of someone that is offended by his comments that he should be disqualified because of his outrageous comments.

That's not what he said at all. He never said they were indiscriminately bombing villages. He was talking more about the differences between direct and indirect fire due to shortage of troops on the ground. There will always be much more civilian casualties with indirect fire in comparison to direct fire.

[Purple & Gold]

She's so scary. I'm afraid. Hold me.

Sorry you ain't my type, but maybe you can borrow whottt's blowupdoll of her.

[Yonivore]

Yeah, googling funny pictures to post on a forum is totally what gets me through it all.
There's nothing wrong with that...have fun.


Just a tremendous and well thought out retort.
Why, thank you...thank you very much.


What information? All you've done is make unfounded claim after unfounded claim and provided almost nothing substantial to back it up.

:lmao
So, William Ayers proximity to Obama at Columbia, at the law firm where he met Michelle, at the CAC and now are just a weird series of coincidences? That there are many other such types weaving in and out of what little history Obama has revealed is also just a coincidence?

Okay. Don't buy it, but don't claim the facts are made up. That I choose to see them pointing to an obvious relationship with William Ayers is certainly more plausible than Obama's own contention that he only met Ayers in 1995 and that he hardly knows the man, that he's just a neighbor with whom he never exchanges ideas.

[Yonivore]

That's not what he said at all. He never said they were indiscriminately bombing villages. He was talking more about the differences between direct and indirect fire due to shortage of troops on the ground. There will always be much more civilian casualties with indirect fire in comparison to direct fire.
I simply disagree with that characterization of what he said. I think he was clearly alleging the U. S. Military was indiscriminately bombing innocent civilians.

[boutons_]

"Obama was accusing our military of indiscriminately bombing villages."

indiscriminately? :lol Did HUSSEIN say "indiscrimately" :lol

HUSSEIN stated facts. Civilian deaths from American military are a main reason Afghans want the US out of Afghanistan, why Afghanistan's pacificaition is a failure, why Afganis don't trust the Americans, nor Karzai who is effectively only the President of Kabul, not of the country.

How many wedding parties have the Americans bombed, killing dozens of civilians each time? Of course, it was disciminate bombing of civilians, no? :lol

[Buddy Holly]

So, William Ayers proximity to Obama at Columbia, at the law firm where he met Michelle, at the CAC and now are just a weird series of coincidences? That there are many other such types weaving in and out of what little history Obama has revealed is also just a coincidence?

The point is, what does their knowing each other have to do with anything? What are you insinuating? That's the point.

Them knowing each other is pointless. That's the point that you seem to not understand.


Okay. Don't buy it, but don't claim the facts are made up.

Hey moron, where did I state the facts were made up? Quote me where I said that any facts were made up and I'll paypal you 200 dollars.



That I choose to see them pointing to an obvious relationship with William Ayers is certainly more plausible than Obama's own contention that he only met Ayers in 1995 and that he hardly knows the man, that he's just a neighbor with whom he never exchanges ideas.

They KNOW EACH OTHER. Get over it. THERE'S NOT ONE GOT DAMN THING WRONG WITH HIM KNOWING OR BEING FRIENDS WITH AYERS.

When it's unearthed that Obama and Ayer in 1993 were both planning to bomb the White House or something then you can get wet.

[Purple & Gold]

I simply disagree with that characterization of what he said. I think he was clearly alleging the U. S. Military was indiscriminately bombing innocent civilians.

I'll have to totally disagree with how you see it. Don't see how he was alleging that at all. Pretty clear to me that he was talking about the lack of ground troops there leading to more indirect fire which leads to more civilian casualties. It's actually pretty obvious to me.

[ChumpDumper]

So, William Ayers proximity to Obama at Columbia15,000 people lived in that area.

[Buddy Holly]

Yoni, stupid, this is verbatim what he said.


We got to get the job done there (Afghanistan) and that requires us to have enough troops that we're not just air raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there.


He's stating facts. Troops, because of the lack of soldiers, are air raiding villages and that does kill many civilians which in turn causes people of Afghanistan to hate us more.

However, Obama wasn't being general he was being specific to that problem.

The REPUBS are loving taking that out of context. :lol

Saying he said that that's just what their doing. Killing civilians. And now you have McShame and Failin both playing doing politics at a time when there's no need for it. When McShame should be focusing on, wait for it, country first :downspin:

[PixelPusher]

15,000 people lived in that area.

Post-Palin, all proximity equals experience.

[boutons_]

Here's McLiar "pal-ing around" and endorsing G. Gordon Liddy, remorseless ex-con, who explained on his radio show where to shoot federal agents to avoid their body armor.

===============

"Liddy served four and a half years in prison in connection with his conviction for his role (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fwp-srv%2Fonpolitics%2Fwatergate%2Fliddy.html) in the Watergate break-in and the break-in at the office of the psychiatrist of Daniel Ellsberg, the military analyst who leaked the Pentagon Papers.

Liddy has acknowledged (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3 DYRty_4HT_8kC%26pg%3DPA169%26dq%3DOnly%2Bif%2Bther e%2Bwere%2Babsolutely%2Bno%2Bother%2Bway.%2BBut%2B yes%2C%2BI%2Bwould%2C%2Bif%2Bnecessary%2Bto%2Bprot ect%2Bmy%2Bmen.%2BI%2Bgave%2Bthem%2Bmy%2Bword%2BI% 25E2%2580%2599d%2Bcover%2Bthem%26sig%3DACfU3U1wDwu oYxZdCxrISO-4oz4IFMztEA) preparing to kill someone during the Ellsberg break-in "if necessary";

plotting (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3 DYRty_4HT_8kC%26pg%3DPA208%26dq%3DI%2Btook%2Bthe%2 Bposition%2Bthat%2C%2Bin%2Ba%2Bhypothetical%2Bcase %2Bin%2Bwhich%2Bthe%2Btarget%26sig%3DACfU3U1O2hqX-x2w2V3ZLiAudAzZYsLtLw) to murder journalist Jack Anderson;

plotting (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3 DYRty_4HT_8kC%26pg%3DPA169%26dq%3DOnly%2Bif%2Bther e%2Bwere%2Babsolutely%2Bno%2Bother%2Bway.%2BBut%2B yes%2C%2BI%2Bwould%2C%2Bif%2Bnecessary%2Bto%2Bprot ect%2Bmy%2Bmen.%2BI%2Bgave%2Bthem%2Bmy%2Bword%2BI% 25E2%2580%2599d%2Bcover%2Bthem%26sig%3DACfU3U1wDwu oYxZdCxrISO-4oz4IFMztEA%23PPA309%2CM1) with a "gangland figure" to murder Howard Hunt to stop him from cooperating with investigators;

plotting (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3 DYRty_4HT_8kC%26pg%3DPA171%26dq%3DWe%2Bdevised%2Ba %2Bplan%2Bthat%2Bentailed%2Bbuying%26ei%3D0hrTSIyb EoTkygSg3uDpAw%26sig%3DACfU3U3kI1DJ3zZ1TIhfgmILplU-GA0Vmg%23PPA171%2CM1) to firebomb the Brookings Institution;

and plotting (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3 DYRty_4HT_8kC%26pg%3DPA197%26dq%3DWith%2BMagruder% 2Band%2BDean%2Bout%2Bto%2Blunch%2C%2BI%2Bfelt%2Bob liged%2Bto%2Bimpress%2BMitchell%2Bwith%2Bmy%2Bseri ousness%2Bof%2Bpurpose%2C%2Bthat%26sig%3DACfU3U0_v eH7Y5W0hUPGaf28moOKxtDDKA) to kidnap "leftist guerillas" at the 1972 Republican National Convention -- a plan he outlined to the Nixon administration using terminology borrowed from the Nazis.

(The murder, firebombing, and kidnapping plots were never carried out; the break-ins were.) During the 1990s, Liddy reportedly instructed his radio audience on multiple occasions on how to shoot Bureau of Alcohol,

Tobacco, and Firearms agents and also reportedly said he had named his shooting targets after Bill and Hillary Clinton.

Liddy has donated (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.opensecrets.org%2Findivs%2F search.php%3Fname%3Dliddy%252C%2Bg%26state%3D%26zi p%3D%26employ%3D%26cand%3Dmccain%26all%3DY%26sort% 3DN%26capcode%3Dbmv7j%26submit%3DSubmit) $5,000 to McCain's campaigns since 1998, including $1,000 in February 2008 (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nictusa.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Ffecimg%2F%3F28990643217).

In addition, McCain has appeared on Liddy's radio show during the presidential campaign, including as recently as May (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trumix.com%2Fpodshows%2F294 3209).

An online video (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideoplay%3F docid%3D3888810765796113705%26vt%3Dlf%26hl%3Den) labeled "John McCain On The G. Gordon Liddy Show 11/8/07" includes a discussion between Liddy and McCain, whom Liddy described as an "old friend."

During the segment, McCain praised Liddy's "adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great," said he was "proud" of Liddy, and said that "it's always a pleasure for me to come on your program."
"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810040004

Yoni darling, meet slap, you dishonest bitch.

[florige]

Here's McLiar "pal-ing around" and endorsing G. Gordon Liddy, remorseless ex-con, who explained on his radio show where to shoot federal agents to avoid their body armor.

===============

"Liddy served four and a half years in prison in connection with his conviction for his role (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fwp-srv%2Fonpolitics%2Fwatergate%2Fliddy.html) in the Watergate break-in and the break-in at the office of the psychiatrist of Daniel Ellsberg, the military analyst who leaked the Pentagon Papers.

Liddy has acknowledged (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3 DYRty_4HT_8kC%26pg%3DPA169%26dq%3DOnly%2Bif%2Bther e%2Bwere%2Babsolutely%2Bno%2Bother%2Bway.%2BBut%2B yes%2C%2BI%2Bwould%2C%2Bif%2Bnecessary%2Bto%2Bprot ect%2Bmy%2Bmen.%2BI%2Bgave%2Bthem%2Bmy%2Bword%2BI% 25E2%2580%2599d%2Bcover%2Bthem%26sig%3DACfU3U1wDwu oYxZdCxrISO-4oz4IFMztEA) preparing to kill someone during the Ellsberg break-in "if necessary";

plotting (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3 DYRty_4HT_8kC%26pg%3DPA208%26dq%3DI%2Btook%2Bthe%2 Bposition%2Bthat%2C%2Bin%2Ba%2Bhypothetical%2Bcase %2Bin%2Bwhich%2Bthe%2Btarget%26sig%3DACfU3U1O2hqX-x2w2V3ZLiAudAzZYsLtLw) to murder journalist Jack Anderson;

plotting (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3 DYRty_4HT_8kC%26pg%3DPA169%26dq%3DOnly%2Bif%2Bther e%2Bwere%2Babsolutely%2Bno%2Bother%2Bway.%2BBut%2B yes%2C%2BI%2Bwould%2C%2Bif%2Bnecessary%2Bto%2Bprot ect%2Bmy%2Bmen.%2BI%2Bgave%2Bthem%2Bmy%2Bword%2BI% 25E2%2580%2599d%2Bcover%2Bthem%26sig%3DACfU3U1wDwu oYxZdCxrISO-4oz4IFMztEA%23PPA309%2CM1) with a "gangland figure" to murder Howard Hunt to stop him from cooperating with investigators;

plotting (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3 DYRty_4HT_8kC%26pg%3DPA171%26dq%3DWe%2Bdevised%2Ba %2Bplan%2Bthat%2Bentailed%2Bbuying%26ei%3D0hrTSIyb EoTkygSg3uDpAw%26sig%3DACfU3U3kI1DJ3zZ1TIhfgmILplU-GA0Vmg%23PPA171%2CM1) to firebomb the Brookings Institution;

and plotting (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3 DYRty_4HT_8kC%26pg%3DPA197%26dq%3DWith%2BMagruder% 2Band%2BDean%2Bout%2Bto%2Blunch%2C%2BI%2Bfelt%2Bob liged%2Bto%2Bimpress%2BMitchell%2Bwith%2Bmy%2Bseri ousness%2Bof%2Bpurpose%2C%2Bthat%26sig%3DACfU3U0_v eH7Y5W0hUPGaf28moOKxtDDKA) to kidnap "leftist guerillas" at the 1972 Republican National Convention -- a plan he outlined to the Nixon administration using terminology borrowed from the Nazis.

(The murder, firebombing, and kidnapping plots were never carried out; the break-ins were.) During the 1990s, Liddy reportedly instructed his radio audience on multiple occasions on how to shoot Bureau of Alcohol,

Tobacco, and Firearms agents and also reportedly said he had named his shooting targets after Bill and Hillary Clinton.

Liddy has donated (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.opensecrets.org%2Findivs%2F search.php%3Fname%3Dliddy%252C%2Bg%26state%3D%26zi p%3D%26employ%3D%26cand%3Dmccain%26all%3DY%26sort% 3DN%26capcode%3Dbmv7j%26submit%3DSubmit) $5,000 to McCain's campaigns since 1998, including $1,000 in February 2008 (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nictusa.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Ffecimg%2F%3F28990643217).

In addition, McCain has appeared on Liddy's radio show during the presidential campaign, including as recently as May (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trumix.com%2Fpodshows%2F294 3209).

An online video (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideoplay%3F docid%3D3888810765796113705%26vt%3Dlf%26hl%3Den) labeled "John McCain On The G. Gordon Liddy Show 11/8/07" includes a discussion between Liddy and McCain, whom Liddy described as an "old friend."

During the segment, McCain praised Liddy's "adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great," said he was "proud" of Liddy, and said that "it's always a pleasure for me to come on your program."
"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810040004

Yoni darling, meet slap, you dishonest bitch.





:lol

[TomBrady]

The reason these attacks don't stick to Obama is that nothing can be said about Obama other than he knows of these people. He doesn't associate with them now or share their views and opinions. In fact, he denounced Rev. Wright.

So I ask conservatives on here, what are you driving at? Tell me what you are trying to say with these attacks. I want to know. Are you trying to say Obama is a terrorist and that he wants to blow up the WhiteHouse? Are you trying to say Obama wants to kill whitey?

Really I challenge you all to think rationally here. What you are saying and claiming really doesn't make any sense, and it's the reason why these attacks have not worked on Obama. I understand you were all likely raised conservatively and were taught to hate liberals and Democrats, but that line of thinking is wrong. It's dangerously wrong and it's that kind of thinking that holds back social progress in this country.

[Yonivore]

Yoni, stupid, this is verbatim what he said.

He's stating facts. Troops, because of the lack of soldiers, are air raiding villages and that does kill many civilians which in turn causes people of Afghanistan to hate us more.

However, Obama wasn't being general he was being specific to that problem.

The REPUBS are loving taking that out of context. :lol

Saying he said that that's just what their doing. Killing civilians. And now you have McShame and Failin both playing doing politics at a time when there's no need for it. When McShame should be focusing on, wait for it, country first :downspin:
They weren't air raiding villages and killing civilians. Every strike has been done with precision munitions that targeted specific buildings with known or suspected Taliban or al Qaeda inside. That there are family, friends, or non-combatants co-habitating with the enemy cannot be characterized as "air raiding villages and killing civilians" as if they were indiscriminate acts.

But, of course, I'm sure you believe the reports that come back out of Afghanistan or Pakistan. Every strike we ever committed only ever killed innocent people according to the Taliban or Obama.

[Yonivore]

The reason these attacks don't stick to Obama is that nothing can be said about Obama other than he knows of these people. He doesn't associate with them now or share their views and opinions. In fact, he denounced Rev. Wright.
How credible is that denunciation when he spent 20 years in the congregation?

[Buddy Holly]

They weren't air raiding villages and killing civilians. Every strike has been done with precision munitions that targeted specific buildings with known or suspected Taliban or al Qaeda inside. That there are family, friends, or non-combatants co-habitating with the enemy cannot be characterized as "air raiding villages and killing civilians" as if they were indiscriminate acts.

But, of course, I'm sure you believe the reports that come back out of Afghanistan or Pakistan. Every strike we ever committed only ever killed innocent people according to the Taliban or Obama.

Oh shut the fuck up.

I have friends and relatives who have done more than one tour of both Afghanistan and Iraq. The stories they can tell are fucked up. Please don't even try to tell me that soldiers over there have never air raided a village or never killed civilians, whether on accident or on purpose. Because you'd be straight up lying your pretend dick off.

You need to stop drinking the kool-aid FOX News, Rush and whatever far right shit you listen or watch.

[Buddy Holly]

How credible is that denunciation when he spent 20 years in the congregation?

I have an Aunt that attended Cornerstone for almost 11 years before moving to a different side of the city and joining another church.

Guess what, she isn't as loony as Hagee nor believe everything he believes in. She still attends Cornerstone from time to time, maybe once every 4 months.

Though I guess if I wanted to, I could guilt her by association or proxy.

[SnakeBoy]

I understand you were all likely raised conservatively and were taught to hate liberals and Democrats, but that line of thinking is wrong.

Growing up, I got straight A's in all of my "Liberals & Democrats are the Devil" courses. So don't try to trick me, Obama is a secret muslim terrorist.

[Purple & Gold]

They weren't air raiding villages and killing civilians. Every strike has been done with precision munitions that targeted specific buildings with known or suspected Taliban or al Qaeda inside. That there are family, friends, or non-combatants co-habitating with the enemy cannot be characterized as "air raiding villages and killing civilians" as if they were indiscriminate acts.

But, of course, I'm sure you believe the reports that come back out of Afghanistan or Pakistan. Every strike we ever committed only ever killed innocent people according to the Taliban or Obama.

Sounds like you don't really understand how air raids work. There is really no such thing as precision attacks that target only certain buildings. Sometimes it works, but many times it doesn't. Civilian casualties are just way to high when dealing with indirect fire. It's just the nature of that type of attack.

[jochhejaam]

He doesn't associate with them now or share their views and opinions.

So I ask conservatives on here, what are you driving at? Tell me what you are trying to say with these attacks.


His past associates are Wright, Phlager, Rezco, Ayers, etc. He doesn't associate with them now for political expediency's sake <read: he threw them under the bus, not that they mind, they understand why he did it and I'm sure they approve>. Add to that the fact that he said he "chooses his friends carefully".

If you know anything at all about these characters, and you have basic comprehension skills, you should not have to ask what the point of the information is.

[Buddy Holly]

And all of McCain's past associates are people who have committed financial fraud.

Your point Jochhe?

[ChumpDumper]

If you know anything at all about these characters, and you have basic comprehension skills, you should not have to ask what the point of the information is.We're asking anyway.

Just for kicks.

Tell us what the point is.

[Findog]

We're asking anyway.

Just for kicks.

Tell us what the point is.

MANCHURIAN NEGRO!

[Findog]

McCain palls around with Charles Keating, G. Gordon Liddy and Henry Kissinger. Obama should make an ad playing up those associations.

[Shastafarian]

McCain palls around with Charles Keating, G. Gordon Liddy and Henry Kissinger. Obama should make an ad playing up those associations.

Don't forget Joe Coors (funded the Contras) and sat on the radical U.S. Council for World Freedom board.

[shelshor]

How credible is that denunciation when he spent 20 years in the congregation?

Spending 20 years in the congregation and not knowing what Wright's tirades were about would make him dumber than Bush

[clambake]

Spending 20 years in the congregation and not knowing what Wright's tirades were about would make him dumber than Bush

mccain thinks spain is the enemy.

[boutons_]

"Spending 20 years in the congregation and not knowing what Wright's tirades were about would make him dumber than Bush"

Maybe HUSSEIN is smart enough to cherry pick the good, and ignore the goddamns?

that would make HUSSEIN smarter than everybody who swallows everything pitbull bitch says as Gospel, you betcha.

[JoeChalupa]

You know, I do try to be open minded but this Sarah is really getting on my nerves.

[jochhejaam]

And all of McCain's past associates are people who have committed financial fraud.


I'm gonna need a link for that Buddy.

[ducks]

[QUOTE=JoeChalupa;2810069]You know, I do try to be open minded but this Sarah is really getting on my nerves.
is it because you can not get any of her's

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, you can't get any of her nerves, Joe!

Or her mind!

[Shastafarian]

is it because you can not get any of her's

Because he can't get any of her nerves?

[jochhejaam]

We're asking anyway.

Just for kicks.

Tell us what the point is.



Okay, just for kicks CD;

1. Obama insists that he chooses his friends carefully.

2. These carefully chosen friends are a mixed bag of criminals, anti-American radicals, bigots, extortionists, etc.

3. Obama terminates these friendships, or disowns his carefully chosen friends, only after their radical views and records become public knowledge, and they are inextricably tied to him. His disdain may have come across as genuine if he had distanced himself from them before they were outed, but by waiting until afterwards it was transparent that the “going there separate ways” was merely a guise, done only for the sake of political expediency.

4. Obama’s tenured relationship with this group of malcontents (aka, his carefully chosen friends) is evidence of like-minded philosophy.

5.Obama’s judgment is skewed to the degree that he has no business being the next POTUS.

For those that think highly of Ayers, Rezco, Phlager and Wright, there’s no problem, vote for the man that is tied into their philosophy through a willing and carefully association with them.


Obviously people who like him should vote for him, but know who he is before voting for him <or don't>.

[ChumpDumper]

Okay, just for kicks CD;

1. Obama insists that he chooses his friends carefully.Link to that quote? "I insist I choose my friends carefully."


2. These carefully chosen friends are a mixed bag of criminals, anti-American radicals, bigots, extortionists, etc.A mixed bag of accusations, some baseless.


3. Obama terminates these friendships, or disowns his carefully chosen friends, only after their radical views and records become public knowledge, and they are inextricably tied to him. His disdain may have come across as genuine if he had distanced himself from them before they were outed, but by waiting until afterwards it was transparent that the “going there separate ways” was merely a guise, done only for the sake of political expediency.The only one he terminated was the one with Wright, because Wright felt like digging his hole deeper.


4. Obama’s tenured relationship with this group of malcontents (aka, his carefully chosen friends) is evidence of like-minded philosophy.No it isn't. Carville/Matalin. Schwarzenegger/Shriver. Myself/my brother.


5.Obama’s judgment is skewed to the degree that he has no business being the next POTUS.It's a nice stretch, but Obama hasn't damned America or bombed the Pentagon, so you're logic isn't logical.


For those that think highly of Ayers, Rezco, Phlager and Wright, there’s no problem, vote for the man that is tied into their philosophy through a willing and carefully association with them.

Obviously people who like him should vote for him, but know who he is before voting for him <or don't>. Your font size gimmick is stupid.

[Yonivore]

You know, I do try to be open minded but this Sarah is really getting on my nerves.
What's the matter, do you have an aversion to the truth, Joe?

[jochhejaam]

Link to that quote? "I insist I choose my friends carefully."
1. Did I post it as a quote?
2. Are you suggesting that the man who would be president doesn't choose his friends carefully?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/mar/30/the-audacity-of-rhetoric/


A mixed bag of accusations,
I love it when you play captain obvious.


some baseless.
which ones?


The only one he terminated was the one with Wright, because Wright felt like digging his hole deeper.
Good CD, I didn't say he terminated them all.


No it isn't. Carville/Matalin. Schwarzenegger/Shriver. Myself/my brother.
Hmmm, don't see any Phlager, Wright, Ayers or Rezco types listed there, not to mention that Obama was linked with 4 radicals (there are more, we'll save them for another time), not 1 family member.
FAIL!


It's a nice stretch, but Obama hasn't damned America or bombed the Pentagon, so you're logic isn't logical.
He enjoyed the relationship with the man who asked God to Damn America (any links to where Obama spoke out against that outrage "before" his prez run?), to the degree that Wright presided over their Wedding and baptized their children.
Other than you, who suggested that he bombed America?



Your font size gimmick is stupid.
:lmao That's all you have on the last quote?
Great putdown cd, seriously :lmao

[ElNono]

1. Obama insists that he chooses his friends carefully.



2. Are you suggesting that the man who would be president doesn't choose his friends carefully?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/mar/30/the-audacity-of-rhetoric/

Pick one of the two. Either Obama insists on it, or you insist on it. Which one is it?

[jochhejaam]

Pick one of the two. Either Obama insists on it, or you insist on it. Which one is it?

You pick. I insist.

[Yonivore]

Pick one of the two. Either Obama insists on it, or you insist on it. Which one is it?
So, you really think it's a winning strategy to argue whether or not Obama actually said he picks his friends carefully?

Would you prefer it be proven that he didn't and, in fact, was pretty damn wreckless in picking those with whom he chose to associate?

Well, we're working on it.

[Shastafarian]

You're so concerned about Obama's affiliations but I haven't seen you question John McCain's ties to Charles Keating or Joe Coors...funny.

[Yonivore]

You're so concerned about Obama's affiliations but I haven't seen you question John McCain's ties to Charles Keating or Joe Coors...funny.
Neither Keating or Coors are terrorists who wish they'd of killed more Americans when they had the chance.

Plus, McCain has answered for his association with Keating -- and was exonerated by the ethics committee.

I don't know anything about your Coors accusation.

[ElNono]

You pick. I insist.

:lol

hmmm... decisions, decisions...

Good to see you Joch... I thought you got lost somewhere!

[ElNono]

So, you really think it's a winning strategy to argue whether or not Obama actually said he picks his friends carefully?

Would you prefer it be proven that he didn't and, in fact, was pretty damn wreckless in picking those with whom he chose to associate?

Well, we're working on it.

I was pointing out an obvious contradiction on Joch's post. I really have nothing to argue about in this thread. I'm sure Obama had some weird people come hang around him, as much as Bush and McCain probably did/do too.
I don't really believe in guilt by association, but hey, if you do, more power to you!

[ChumpDumper]

1. Did I post it as a quote?
2. Are you suggesting that the man who would be president doesn't choose his friends carefully?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/mar/30/the-audacity-of-rhetoric/So you have no instance of Obama's insiting he chooses his friends carefully and that it qualifies him to be president. just say so.



I love it when you play captain obvious.Yes, it's obvious some of those accusations are complete bullshit.




Good CD, I didn't say he terminated them all.Good, what are you saying?

.

Hmmm, don't see any Phlager, Wright, Ayers or Rezco types listed there, not to mention that Obama was linked with 4 radicals (there are more, we'll save them for another time), not 1 family member.
FAIL!Hmm. i don't see Obama bombing anything. FAIL!



He enjoyed the relationship with the man who asked God to Damn America (any links to where Obama spoke out against that outrage "before" his prez run?), to the degree that Wright presided over their Wedding and baptized their children.Any quote saying Obama damned America at any time?

No?

FAIL!


Other than you, who suggested that he bombed America?You.

There's nothing else about Ayers that anyone has ever claimed, and you seem to thing that being around anyone for any amount of time means you think exactly alike. So, yes, you are saying Obama damns and bombs America. Now prove it.


:lmao That's all you have on the last quote?
Great putdown cd, seriously :lmaoThere wasn't any substance to the last quote, so yeah. You suck as bad as your little quotes.

[ChumpDumper]

So, you really think it's a winning strategy to argue whether or not Obama actually said he picks his friends carefully?You think it's a winning strategy to try to scare people with Ayers and Wright. Unfortunately for you, it isn't working.


Would you prefer it be proven that he didn't and, in fact, was pretty damn wreckless in picking those with whom he chose to associate?

Well, we're working on it.You're failing pretty badly. McCain's lawyer said so.

[Yonivore]

I'm sure Obama had some weird people come hang around him,...
Your attempt at equivocating aside, this really needs to be addressed.

Obama sought the position on the CAC, and organization founded by William Ayers -- Ayers didn't just come "hang around him"

Obama joined Rev. Wright's church -- Wright didn't just come "hang around him."

In every case, Obama went and "hung around those people"

Nice try though.

[ChumpDumper]

Your attempt at equivocating aside, this really needs to be addressed.

Obama sought the position on the CAC, and organization founded by William Ayers -- Ayers didn't just come "hang around him"

Obama joined Rev. Wright's church -- Wright didn't just come "hang around him."

In every case, Obama went and "hung around those people"

Nice try though.So what is the end game here?

What direct influence do you idiots claim these people had on Obama.

Bombing or America damning?

[ElNono]

Your attempt at equivocating aside, this really needs to be addressed.

Obama sought the position on the CAC, and organization founded by William Ayers -- Ayers didn't just come "hang around him"

Obama joined Rev. Wright's church -- Wright didn't just come "hang around him."

In every case, Obama went and "hung around those people"

Nice try though.

And your point is?

[Yonivore]

"I Was Nine Years Old when Barack Obama's friend tried to kill me."

The mainstream media have bought Barack Obama's spin on his relationship with Bill Ayers--"I was only eight years old when he was trying to commit mass murder!"--hook, line and sinker. So it's revealing to hear from one of Ayers' intended victims, John Murtagh:


During the April 16 debate between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, moderator George Stephanopoulos brought up “a gentleman named William Ayers,” who “was part of the Weather Underground in the 1970s. They bombed the Pentagon, the Capitol, and other buildings. He’s never apologized for that.” Stephanopoulos then asked Obama to explain his relationship with Ayers. Obama’s answer: “The notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was eight years old, somehow reflects on me and my values, doesn’t make much sense, George.” Obama was indeed only eight in early 1970. I was only nine then, the year Ayers’s Weathermen tried to murder me.

In February 1970, my father, a New York State Supreme Court justice, was presiding over the trial of the so-called “Panther 21,” members of the Black Panther Party indicted in a plot to bomb New York landmarks and department stores. Early on the morning of February 21, as my family slept, three gasoline-filled firebombs exploded at our home on the northern tip of Manhattan, two at the front door and the third tucked neatly under the gas tank of the family car. (Today, of course, we’d call that a car bomb.) A neighbor heard the first two blasts and, with the remains of a snowman I had built a few days earlier, managed to douse the flames beneath the car. That was an act whose courage I fully appreciated only as an adult, an act that doubtless saved multiple lives that night.
Read it all (http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0430jm.html). During the years when Obama was "palling around" with Ayers, as Sarah Palin accurately termed it, Ayers was proud of his attempt to kill nine-year-old John Murtagh and his family. He said, for publication, that his only regret was that he, his wife and their murderous colleagues hadn't tried to kill more people. This unrepentant would-be mass murderer was the one person, over all other friends and acquaintances, whom Barack Obama chose to host his inaugural Democratic Party political fundraiser. And Ayers was Obama's close collaborator in trying to "reform" Chicago's public education system by drenching it in radical politics and anti-Americanism.

Exactly as Obama dropped out of Jeremiah "God damn America" Wright's church only when the association became politically inconvenient, he insincerely "denounced" Ayers only after his association with the terrorist had become a liability. That was after years of working with Ayers as a radical political ally, without showing the slightest concern about his friend's career as an attempted mass murderer.

One wonders, sometimes, what it would take to convince an American reporter that a Democratic Presidential candidate has poor judgment.

[Yonivore]

And your point is?
Sorry, didn't realize you needed simplified bullet points.

1) Obama hung around Ayers and Wright, not the other way around.

2) There is no one in Senator McCain's past or present circle of friends, associates, or acquaintenances that come close to the scum that are Wright and Ayers.

Clear enough?

[ChumpDumper]

One wonders, sometimes, what it would take to convince Yoni to quit passing off other people's ideas as his own.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/10/021712.php

[ElNono]

Sorry, didn't realize you needed simplified bullet points.

1) Obama hung around Ayers and Wright, not the other way around.

2) There is no one in Senator McCain's past or present circle of friends, associates, or acquaintenances that come close to the scum that are Wright and Ayers.

Clear enough?

And that makes Obama guilty of what exactly?

[ChumpDumper]

And that makes Obama guilty of what exactly?Damning and bombing America. How many blogs do I have to rip off before you get it?

[Yonivore]

And that makes Obama guilty of what exactly?
First of all, there are a couple of dozen posts that detail exactly what Obama is being accused of...I don't see the value in repeating them all here; simply scroll back.

This particular exchange was to put the lie to your attempt to equate any possible association McCain might have with Obama's association with Ayers and Wright...and a few other radical leftists.

Secondly, I thought it needed to be pointed out that you inferred Wright and Ayers were people that "Hung around" with Obama when, in fact, it was the other way around.

[ChumpDumper]

Yonivore claims that leather penguins hang around him, not the other way around.

[jochhejaam]

These carefully chosen friends are a mixed bag of criminals, anti-American radicals, bigots, extortionists, etc.




A mixed bag of accusations, some baseless.


I'll ask again, which ones?


(btw, your last post was a major failure (it wreaked of wadded panties) to the extent that it did not merit a reply...of course, you already knew that)

[Shastafarian]

Neither Keating or Coors are terrorists who wish they'd of killed more Americans when they had the chance.

Plus, McCain has answered for his association with Keating -- and was exonerated by the ethics committee.

I don't know anything about your Coors accusation.

This isn't about McCain's actions in the scandal. This is about what Charles Keating did. Since you guys like to take associations that far it's very relevant (according to you) that McCain and Keating were friends. I keep mentioning the Joe Coors things because he FINANCED terrorists in Nicaragua.

[ChumpDumper]

I'll ask again, which ones?


btw, your post sucked too, and since you want to be a super douche about it and not deal with the issues raised, no one is going to give a shit about these things you pretend to be important. If you can show me an example of Obama's damning or bombing America, being bigoted against whitey or extorting money, you may have a point. Otherwise, you have simply failed and nothing you can do will change that.

[ChumpDumper]

This isn't about McCain's actions in the scandal. This is about what Charles Keating did. Since you guys like to take associations that far it's very relevant (according to you) that McCain and Keating were friends. I keep mentioning the Joe Coors things because he FINANCED terrorists in Nicaragua.Exactly. McCain KNEW these guys!

He's just as bad!

He did and does everything his acquaintances ever did or ever will do!

You can't deny any of this!

[PixelPusher]

btw, your post sucked too, and since you want to be a super douche about it and not deal with the issues raised, no one is going to give a shit about these things you pretend to be important. If you can show me an example of Obama's damning or bombing America, being bigoted against whitey or extorting money, you may have a point. Otherwise, you have simply failed and nothing you can do will change that.
<you forgot to add the "< >" at the beginning and the end>

[Yonivore]

This isn't about McCain's actions in the scandal. This is about what Charles Keating did. Since you guys like to take associations that far it's very relevant (according to you) that McCain and Keating were friends.
Ah, okay.

Rezko. That's a bit more contemporaneous, eh?


I keep mentioning the Joe Coors things because he FINANCED terrorists in Nicaragua.
I see, do tell.

[jochhejaam]

Uhmm, I put my foot in my mouth and I don't know how to get it out.

I don't know cd, maybe try blowing your nose really hard.

[ChumpDumper]

I can't find any example of Obama doing any of these things. I've got nothing.You idiots have thrown the kitchen sink at this guy.

Let me know when you find the damn America bomb that Obama planted after extorting money.

[Shastafarian]

Ah, okay.

Rezko. That's a bit more contemporaneous, eh?

Sure why not. But why do you guys keep dodging questions about McCain? I haven't brought up anything regarding relationships and their negative effects on candidates. YOU GUYS HAVE. So keep bringing up all the "bad" people who might know Obama and keep dodging questions about McCain. It just makes you guys look like hypocrites.



I see, do tell.
...I have already but I'll go at it again I suppose. Joe Coors started this little organization called the U.S. Council for World Freedom. John McCain sat on its board. Joe Coors funded the Contras. There. John McCain must also like funding terrorists.

[ElNono]

First of all, there are a couple of dozen posts that detail exactly what Obama is being accused of...I don't see the value in repeating them all here; simply scroll back.

This particular exchange was to put the lie to your attempt to equate any possible association McCain might have with Obama's association with Ayers and Wright...and a few other radical leftists.

Secondly, I thought it needed to be pointed out that you inferred Wright and Ayers were people that "Hung around" with Obama when, in fact, it was the other way around.

Stop beating around the bush. I asked you a very simple question. It doesn't matter if these people hung around Obama or if Obama hung around them.

Whichever way it is, Obama is guilty of what exactly?

[Yonivore]

Sure why not. But why do you guys keep dodging questions about McCain? I haven't brought up anything regarding relationships and their negative effects on candidates. YOU GUYS HAVE. So keep bringing up all the "bad" people who might know Obama and keep dodging questions about McCain. It just makes you guys look like hypocrites.
What have I dodged? McCain was cleared of any wrong-doing in the Keating 5 scandal. I'm not sure his association with Keating continued after that, do you know?


...I have already but I'll go at it again I suppose. Joe Coors started this little organization called the U.S. Council for World Freedom. John McCain sat on its board. Joe Coors funded the Contras. There. John McCain must also like funding terrorists.
Is it universally accepted that the Contras were a terrorist group? Or, is that a construct of socialists, liberals, and bed wetters such as yourself.

Supporting the Contras against the Sandinista-backed guerrillas was pretty much the policy of the Reagan administration and most conservatives of the time. So, you're going to have some trouble convincing anyone pre-disposed to vote for McCain that he was association with a person supporting terrorists.

On the other, however; I think everyone would agree -- including Barack Obama himself -- That William Ayers and his wife, Dorhn, were terrorists. Not only that, they were domestic terrorists in the business of trying to kill Americans.

Knock yourself out. The Coors and Keating associations should be exposed. I'm sure the McCain Campaign can make their case much better than can Barack Obama over his decades-long associations with American-hating leftist nut jobs.

[ChumpDumper]

What have I dodged? McCain was cleared of any wrong-doing in the Keating 5 scandal.Let's see. He took $112,000 from Keating and his associates for his campaigns, had his wife and her father go in on a shopping mall with him, and took nine trips in one year on Keating's dime, many to the Bahamas using Keating's private jet.

And again, it doesn't matter if he never spoke to him again -- he knew him at one time, so he obviously is guilty of anything Keating ever did.

[Shastafarian]

What have I dodged? McCain was cleared of any wrong-doing in the Keating 5 scandal. I'm not sure his association with Keating continued after that, do you know?:lol this is rich. He tried to get the man off for god's sake. That tells me he didn't exactly cut off friendship when the scandal broke.



Is it universally accepted that the Contras were a terrorist group?
By rational people who see human rights violations as terrorism, yeah.

Or, is that a construct of socialists, liberals, and bed wetters such as yourself. Bed wetters? Nice.


Supporting the Contras against the Sandinista-backed guerrillas was pretty much the policy of the Reagan administration and most conservatives of the time. So, you're going to have some trouble convincing anyone pre-disposed to vote for McCain that he was association with a person supporting terrorists.
At least you're honest about one thing.


On the other, however; I think everyone would agree -- including Barack Obama himself -- That William Ayers and his wife, Dorhn, were terrorists. Not only that, they were domestic terrorists in the business of trying to kill Americans. And that's why Obama has publicly denounced the acts.

[Mr. Peabody]

October Surprise! Photographic evidence linking Obama and Ayers....!

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm36/zulch/ayers02.jpg

[SnakeBoy]

This isn't about McCain's actions in the scandal. This is about what Charles Keating did. Since you guys like to take associations that far it's very relevant (according to you) that McCain and Keating were friends. I keep mentioning the Joe Coors things because he FINANCED terrorists in Nicaragua.

I think your missing the real point. McCain/Keating relationship is fully vetted. There's still alot of skepticism about Obama's past since much of it is a blank page. That's why the republicans will keep pressing these issues since it will affect voters by election day.

[Yonivore]

Stop beating around the bush. I asked you a very simple question. It doesn't matter if these people hung around Obama or if Obama hung around them.

Whichever way it is, Obama is guilty of what exactly?
You're comfortable with a President that has spent the vast majority of his life hanging around these type people? Having his opinions, judgements, and education informed by such socialist, communists, anti-American ideologies?

I think he's guilty of being one of them and is just trying to sweep it under the rug to get elected. Then, he'll begin to try and implement some of the socialist/communist drivel he's been immersed in for so long.

Why is he trying so hard to distance himself from Ayers if, in fact, there isn't some connection?

Two of the more blatant lies are that Obama was only 8 when Ayers was committing his crimes. Well, Obama was 8 when the Weathermen were founded by Ayers and Dohrn...he was 20 and a part of the socialist culture in college (Columbia or Occidental -- neither of which he'll talk much about) when some the Weathermen's last crimes were committed.

One of Obama's spokespeople tried to minimize their association by saying they merely lived in the same neighborhood and their children attended school together. Well, ooops...Ayers children are grown and Obama's children were in elementary school. What's up with that?

Hillary Clinton, God bless her, is the person that first brought up Ayers during the primaries. I think the media has been blatantly incurious about the association.

Clear enough for you?

[ChumpDumper]

Why is he trying so hard to distance himself from Ayers if, in fact, there isn't some connection?Maybe he was accurate when he said he doesn't know him that well


Two of the more blatant lies are that Obama was only 8 when Ayers was committing his crimes. Well, Obama was 8 when the Weathermen were founded by Ayers and Dohrn...he was 20 and a part of the socialist culture in college (Columbia or Occidental -- neither of which he'll talk much about) when some the Weathermen's last crimes were committed.How do you know he hasn't talked about his college years? You've read everything he has ever said or written?

"Socialist culture?" Seriously, you're being hilariously McCarthyite here. How do you know what culture he was in if he doesn't say anything about college?


One of Obama's spokespeople tried to minimize their association by saying they merely lived in the same neighborhood and their children attended school together. Well, ooops...Ayers children are grown and Obama's children were in elementary school. What's up with that?It tells me that his spokesman doesn't know much about Ayers. Go figure.


Hillary Clinton, God bless her, is the person that first brought up Ayers during the primaries. I think the media has been blatantly incurious about the association.

Clear enough for you?Yeah, it's clear there is nothing to this at all.

[Yonivore]

:lol this is rich. He tried to get the man off for god's sake. That tells me he didn't exactly cut off friendship when the scandal broke.
Isn't that what the Ethics Committee cleared him of?


By rational people who see human rights violations as terrorism, yeah.
So, the Sandinistas and the Nicaraguan Guerrillas weren't involved in any Human Rights violations of their own?


At least you're honest about one thing.
Can you find contemporanous articles that called the Contras terrorists?


And that's why Obama has publicly denounced the acts.
After his association with Ayers was made public. I would like to see a denunciation of Ayers that took place before Obama was called on it. Obama has had to denounce about 5 of his former friends and associates now -- but, yet, there is no evidence he ever showed any discomfort while associating with these people. In fact, it seems he was quite at home with them.

[ChumpDumper]

I think your missing the real point. McCain/Keating relationship is fully vetted. There's still alot of skepticism about Obama's past since much of it is a blank page. That's why the republicans will keep pressing these issues since it will affect voters by election day.Great job so far, Repuiblicans. Keep up the good work. Just do a little better and you'll put Obama over 60% :tu

[Shastafarian]

So, the Sandinistas and the Nicaraguan Guerrillas weren't involved in any Human Rights violations of their own?
No, they were.



Can you find contemporanous articles that called the Contras terrorists?



In his April 15 address, President Reagan sought to cast doubt on my report (page A1, March 7) of atrocities by anti-Sandinista ''contras'' in Nicaragua by alleging I was ''shepherded through Nicaragua by Sandinista operatives'' (excerpts, April 16).

Each account of murder, brutality, rape and kidnapping in my report is based on the sworn affidavits of eyewitnesses who were selected and interviewed with no interference and whose names and addresses are listed.

Representatives of the Washington Office on Latin America, the International Human Rights Law Group and Americas Watch have independently confirmed the accuracy of these horrible accounts and documented many others. Your March 7 article also verified four incidents chosen at random. The President cannot deny the systematic terror of these so-called ''freedom fighters.'' REED BRODY New York, April 17, 1985

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9507E7DA1F38F935A15757C0A9639482 60

[Yonivore]

No, they were.
So, you pick a side in a conflict that threatens to expand hostile communism into South America, and you support it.



The President cannot deny the systematic terror of these so-called ''freedom fighters.''
Well, apparently he could and he did.

I notice he didn't deny being shepherded through the country by Sandinistas.

Surely you're not going to claim there is as much disagreement over whether or not Ayers, Dohrn, and the Weathermen were terrorists as there was over whether or not not the Contras were terrorist or worth supporting?

If so, I do hope Obama tried that tactic as well.

[Shastafarian]

So, you pick a side in a conflict that threatens to expand hostile communism into South America, and you support it. I'm not supporting anything. I brought up that the contras were terrorists because

a) they were
b) John McCain's friend supported them financially



Well, apparently he could and he did.

I notice he didn't deny being shepherded through the country by Sandinistas.

Surely you're not going to claim there is as much disagreement over whether or not Ayers, Dohrn, and the Weathermen were terrorists as there was over whether or not not the Contras were terrorist or worth supporting?

If so, I do hope Obama tried that tactic as well.

Wait...so you're saying that because the contras were fighting communism, their actions were justified? I think anyone who knows what really happened in Nicaragua would classify them as "terrorizing" people. I can't see a "disagreement" over that, no.

[Yonivore]

I'm not supporting anything. I brought up that the contras were terrorists because

a) they were
b) John McCain's friend supported them financially
See, your problem is that not everyone agrees with that characterization or that their cause was unjust...or even unworthy of U.S. Aid and Support. In fact, it is my understanding there were many factions of the Contras, not all of whom were supported by the U.S.

You're entitled to your opinion, have at it; and, yes, there are people who agree with you. Oh well, it's one of those issues. Many people -- including me -- disagree with you.

Same can't be said about Ayers and the Weathermen. Good luck finding someone that doesn't think they were terrorists.


Wait...so you're saying that because the contras were fighting communism, their actions were justified? I think anyone who knows what really happened in Nicaragua would classify them as "terrorizing" people. I can't see a "disagreement" over that, no.
Yeah, well there was, and still is, disagreement over the necessity of our supporting the Contras. Deal.

So, was Ayers a terrorist or not?

[Shastafarian]

Same can't be said about Ayers and the Weathermen. Good luck finding someone that doesn't think they were terrorists.


Yeah, well there was, and still is, disagreement over the necessity of our supporting the Contras. Deal.

So, was Ayers a terrorist or not?

I'm not denying Ayers was a terrorist. I'm questioning people who want to bring him into this and their lack of focus on John McCain's friends.

[ElNono]

You're comfortable with a President that has spent the vast majority of his life hanging around these type people? Having his opinions, judgements, and education informed by such socialist, communists, anti-American ideologies?

I think he's guilty of being one of them and is just trying to sweep it under the rug to get elected. Then, he'll begin to try and implement some of the socialist/communist drivel he's been immersed in for so long.

Why is he trying so hard to distance himself from Ayers if, in fact, there isn't some connection?

Two of the more blatant lies are that Obama was only 8 when Ayers was committing his crimes. Well, Obama was 8 when the Weathermen were founded by Ayers and Dohrn...he was 20 and a part of the socialist culture in college (Columbia or Occidental -- neither of which he'll talk much about) when some the Weathermen's last crimes were committed.

One of Obama's spokespeople tried to minimize their association by saying they merely lived in the same neighborhood and their children attended school together. Well, ooops...Ayers children are grown and Obama's children were in elementary school. What's up with that?

Hillary Clinton, God bless her, is the person that first brought up Ayers during the primaries. I think the media has been blatantly incurious about the association.

Clear enough for you?

Yes, thanks. It completely clarifies what I thought: Obama is not guilty of anything.
You *think* that because he's been around that people he's one of them.
And BTW, there's nothing wrong with being a socialist. A good amount of our NATO allies have or recently had socialist goverments.

[Yonivore]

Yes, thanks. It completely clarifies what I thought: Obama is not guilty of anything.
You *think* that because he's been around that people he's one of them.
And BTW, there's nothing wrong with being a socialist. A good amount of our NATO allies have or recently had socialist goverments.
Well, I think there is something wrong with being the type of socialists Obama chooses to hang around with...and who he has hung around with his entire adult life.

And, sorry, I don't want a socialist president. Let him go somewhere else and run for office. I don't trust him. And, if such associations were okay, why is he constantly throwing past associates under the bus?

[Yonivore]

I'm not denying Ayers was a terrorist. I'm questioning people who want to bring him into this and their lack of focus on John McCain's friends.

Well, there's no comparison. But, really, knock yourself out trying.

[ChumpDumper]

So Obama has neither damned nor bombed America?

You guys are misleading.

[Shastafarian]

Well, there's no comparison. But, really, knock yourself out trying.

There is a comparison when the link to Ayers can't even be connected that well. You think if there was a strong link your Republican friends wouldn't have dug it up already?

[LakeShow]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/sect/blogs/logo_politicalticker.gif (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/)
October 5, 2008
Fact Check: Is Obama 'palling around with terrorists'? (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/05/fact-check-is-obama-palling-around-with-terrorists/)
Posted: 09:00 AM ET
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/10/05/art.palinpal1005.gi.jpg Gov. Palin commented about Sen. Obama and William Ayers at a rally in Carson, California Saturday.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif

The Statement: Republican vice presidential candidate Gov. Sarah Palin said Saturday, October 4, that Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama is "someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect that he's palling around with terrorists who would target their own country."
Watch: Is Obama a terrorist's pal? (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/10/05/levs.palin.fact.check.cnn)
Get the facts!

The Facts: In making the charge at a fund-raising event in Englewood, Colorado, and a rally in Carson, California, Palin was referring at least in part to William Ayers, a 1960s radical. In both appearances, Palin cited a front-page article in Saturday's New York Times detailing the working relationship between Obama and Ayers.

In the 1960s, Ayers was a founding member of the radical Weather Underground group that carried out a string of bombings of federal buildings, including the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol, in protest against the Vietnam War. The now-defunct group was labeled a "domestic terrorist group" by the FBI, and Ayers and his wife, Bernadine Dohrn — also a Weather Underground member — spent 10 years as fugitives in the 1970s. Federal charges against them were dropped due to FBI misconduct in gathering evidence against them, and they resurfaced in 1980. Both Ayers and Dohrn ultimately became university professors in Chicago, with Ayers, 63, now an education professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago.

Obama's Chicago home is in the same neighborhood where Ayers and Dohrn live. Beginning in 1995, Ayers and Obama worked with the non-profit Chicago Annenberg Challenge on a huge school improvement project. The Annenberg Challenge was for cities to compete for $50 million grants to improve public education. Ayers fought to bring the grant to Chicago, and Obama was recruited onto the board. Also from 1999 through 2001 both were board members on the Woods Fund, a charitable foundation that gave money to various causes, including the Trinity United Church that Obama attended and Northwestern University Law Schools' Children and Family Justice Center, where Dohrn worked.

CNN's review of project records found nothing to suggest anything inappropriate in the volunteer projects in which the two men were involved.

Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt told CNN that after meeting Obama through the Annenberg project, Ayers hosted a campaign event for him that same year when then-Illinois state Sen. Alice Palmer, who planned to run for Congress, introduced the young community organizer as her chosen successor. LaBolt also said the two have not spoken by phone or exchanged e-mail messages since Obama came to the U.S. Senate in 2005 and last met more than a year ago when they encountered each other on the street in their Hyde Park neighborhood.

The extent of Obama's relationship with Ayers came up during the Democratic presidential primaries earlier this year, and Obama explained it by saying, "This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood … the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago — when I was 8 years old — somehow reflects on me and my values doesn't make much sense."

The McCain campaign did not respond Saturday to a request for elaboration on Palin's use of the plural "terrorists."

Verdict: False. There is no indication that Ayers and Obama are now "palling around," or that they have had an ongoing relationship in the past three years. Also, there is nothing to suggest that Ayers is now involved in terrorist activity or that other Obama associates are.

[Yonivore]

There is a comparison when the link to Ayers can't even be connected that well. You think if there was a strong link your Republican friends wouldn't have dug it up already?
Well, first of all they have.

Second of all, Obama has already lied about his association with Ayers. Why?

Third, they have served on several boards, panels, and groups together over the past decade -- or longer. They've attended the same college together at the same time. They've lived in the same neighborhoods, in New York and Chicago. Obama worked at the same law firm as Dohrn and Ayers father -- where he met Michelle.

Finally, that's what October surprises are for.

[ElNono]

Well, I think there is something wrong with being the type of socialists Obama chooses to hang around with...and who he has hung around with his entire adult life.

And, sorry, I don't want a socialist president. Let him go somewhere else and run for office. I don't trust him. And, if such associations were okay, why is he constantly throwing past associates under the bus?

So basically, you don't trust him and you don't like his ideology. Well, gee, we kinda knew that already.
As far as regretting associations, I don't think it's much different from McCain. Sometimes, after a while and in hindsight, you realize some decisions you made weren't the smartest ones. Happened with Keating, I don't see why this is any different.

[Yonivore]

So basically, you don't trust him and you don't like his ideology. Well, gee, we kinda knew that already.
As far as regretting associations, I don't think it's much different from McCain. Sometimes, after a while and in hindsight, you realize some decisions you made weren't the smartest ones. Happened with Keating, I don't see why this is any different.
And, Republicans are banking a whole bunch of people not liking who he associates with too. That's why it's an issue. And, if Obama didn't think it was a problem his campaign wouldn't be working overtime trying to distance him from Ayers.

And, as for it being different than Keating. It seems to be a pattern with Obama. And, also, he doesn't seem to have terminated any of these questionable associations on his own -- but, only after it threatened his political viability.

If it's proven that Obama had a close relationship with William Ayers, that began in the late 80's -- as early as 1987 -- do you think that would be a problem for Obama?

[ChumpDumper]

And, Republicans are banking a whole bunch of people not liking who he associates with too.Not really working very well.
And, if Obama didn't think it was a problem his campaign wouldn't be working overtime trying to distance him from Ayers.They answered a couple of questions. How long did that take?
And, as for it being different than Keating. It seems to be a pattern with Obama. And, also, he doesn't seem to have terminated any of these questionable associations on his own -- but, only after it threatened his political viability.That's exactly when McCain terminated his association with Keating.
If it's proven that Obama had a close relationship with William Ayers, that began in the late 80's -- as early as 1987 -- do you think that would be a problem for Obama?If it's proven he didn't, you'll just keep denying it.

[Wild Cobra]

He gets it from bloggers who haven't read either of his books.
Chump being Chump again...

He gets it from listening to multiple media sources like I do. Not just those that favor the left wing.

I have only read to his point, (2 day old post) so I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but there is now better evidence yet that Ayers and Obama were close. Talk radio has been showing various connections between the two for months. We have heard things that can only be drawn to conclusions that they were very close. I haven't heard the specifics, but I heard today, or yesterday, Ayers sopke about his connection. No, I have no link yet.

[Findog]

October Surprise! Photographic evidence linking Obama and Ayers....!

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm36/zulch/ayers02.jpg

I knew that fucker was a member of the Weather Kids.

[Wild Cobra]

Okay, just for kicks CD;

1. Obama insists that he chooses his friends carefully.

2. These carefully chosen friends are a mixed bag of criminals, anti-American radicals, bigots, extortionists, etc.

3. Obama terminates these friendships, or disowns his carefully chosen friends, only after their radical views and records become public knowledge, and they are inextricably tied to him. His disdain may have come across as genuine if he had distanced himself from them before they were outed, but by waiting until afterwards it was transparent that the “going there separate ways” was merely a guise, done only for the sake of political expediency.

4. Obama’s tenured relationship with this group of malcontents (aka, his carefully chosen friends) is evidence of like-minded philosophy.

5.Obama’s judgment is skewed to the degree that he has no business being the next POTUS.

For those that think highly of Ayers, Rezco, Phlager and Wright, there’s no problem, vote for the man that is tied into their philosophy through a willing and carefully association with them.


Obviously people who like him should vote for him, but know who he is before voting for him <or don't>.

Good take.

If it was only one or two of the names, I wouldn't be so concerned. With so many immoral people he associated with, who knows how many others, or what he really believes.

It at the very least, shows he has too bad of judgemet to be pressidnt.

[Wild Cobra]

Jochhejaam, you forgot Obama's connection with ACORN:

Inside Obama's ACORN (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDZiMjkwMDczZWI5ODdjOWYxZTIzZGIyNzEyMjE0ODI=)

They are again, actively commiting voter registration fraud to vote multiple times for Obama.

[JoeChalupa]

I don't give a crap who people associate with. Hell, I have friends who are republicans..does that mean I have poor judgement? I've got friends who have been busted for DUI....does that mean I have poor judgement? I know women who have had an abortion...does that mean I have poor judgement?
I didn't even give a damn about Bush's cocaine snorting. Big freakin' deal. Or McCain dumping his first wife life a bad habit. Don't care.
But hey, to each his own. I

[ChumpDumper]

Chump being Chump again...

He gets it from listening to multiple media sources like I do. Not just those that favor the left wing.

I have only read to his point, (2 day old post) so I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but there is now better evidence yet that Ayers and Obama were close. Talk radio has been showing various connections between the two for months. We have heard things that can only be drawn to conclusions that they were very close. I haven't heard the specifics, but I heard today, or yesterday, Ayers sopke about his connection. No, I have no link yet.Wow, how very specific of you.

Any evidence of Obama's America damning bombs yet?

I know, you heard someone said it somewhere on the radio sometime.

[hitmanyr2k]

It's sad to see what the Republican party has become. The thing I find most hilarious is Palin is the one making these comments while she herself is barely known and has been on the national stage for little over a month. Does anyone really know her? Why should anyone take her word for anything? That's the thing that kills me about her. 5 weeks in the public eye, constantly being hidden from the press, stonewalling her ethics investigation, and idiots are so willing to take her word as gospel.

[baseline bum]

It's sad to see what the Republican party has become. The thing I find most hilarious is Palin is the one making these comments while she herself is barely known and has been on the national stage for little over a month. Does anyone really know her? Why should anyone take her word for anything? That's the thing that kills me about her. 5 weeks in the public eye, constantly being hidden from the press, stonewalling her ethics investigation, and idiots are so willing to take her word as gospel.

I take her word as gospel... i.e., complete bullshit.

[Wild Cobra]

Wow, how very specific of you.

Any evidence of Obama's America damning bombs yet?

I know, you heard someone said it somewhere on the radio sometime.

Nobody I listen to claims Obama would do anything like that. Multiple talk show hosts have pointed out the conections, and KNOWN FACTS without making stuff up, but adding opinion. Not just one. Victoia Taft, Lars Larson, Michael Medved, Neal Boortz, Sean Hannity, Dennis Prager, Hugh Hewitt, Rusty Humphties, Mike Gallagher, and more.

[ChumpDumper]

Nobody I listen to claims Obama would do anything like that.Than what are you guys whining about?
Multiple talk show hosts have pointed out the conections, and KNOWN FACTS without making stuff upYes, the ones that have been recycled multiple times with zero effect.
Not just one. Victoia Taft, Lars Larson, Michael Medved, Neal Boortz, Sean Hannity, Dennis Prager, Hugh Hewitt, Rusty Humphties, Mike Gallagher, and more.You listen to all of those shows?

You need a life.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Jochhejaam, you forgot Obama's connection with ACORN:

Inside Obama's ACORN (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDZiMjkwMDczZWI5ODdjOWYxZTIzZGIyNzEyMjE0ODI=)

They are again, actively commiting voter registration fraud to vote multiple times for Obama.

How many times have they been found guilty of voter fraud charges?

[George Gervin's Afro]

One year after the contentious 2004 election, it is clear that politically motivated law firms and organizations leveled unfounded allegations of fraud against ACORN with the goal of tarnishing the community group’s reputation and inhibiting its work. In recent months, three highly publicized legal challenges brought against ACORN staff have been dismissed or withdrawn for lack of evidence. In Ohio, a lawsuit funded by the conservative Free Enterprise Coalition and litigated by the law firm of Shumaker, Loop and Kendrick collapsed on October 28. Two Florida lawsuits, based solely on claims by convicted felon and ex-ACORN employee Mac Start and litigated by Rothstein, Rosenfeldt, Adler of Fort Lauderdale, were dismissed with prejudice. Stuart admitted to making false statements against ACORN.

“This outcome is vindication for our dedicated staff and volunteers who worked around the clock in the 2004 election to make sure the voices of low-income Americans were heard,” said Tamecka Pierce of ACORN. “The conservative groups who leveled false charges should be held accountable – this kind of harassment is clearly designed to intimidate community groups who register people of color.”

Further, criminal investigations responding to allegations of voter fraud recently ended in Colorado, Wisconsin, Florida, and Ohio after finding no evidence of wrongdoing by ACORN or any pervasive voter fraud. In Wisconsin, U.S. Attorney Steve Biskupic, a Republican appointed by President Bush in 2004, concluded, “We don’t see a massive conspiracy to alter the election in Milwaukee, one way or another.” In Ohio, a year-long federal, state, and local investigation ended with no federal indictments. “Our investigation is closed. No one was charged…the federal investigation is closed,” said Assistant U.S. Attorney Bill Edwards in Cleveland.


http://www.commondreams.org/news2005/1214-09.htm


http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=8540&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=18427&tx_ttnews[backPid]=8359&cHash=eed3218d29

[JoeChalupa]

Oh the horrah!!!!

[Thunder Dan]

Cheney was eating brekfast with Mahmoud Ahmad a man who ired money to Mohamed Atta on 9/11- yet that isn't a problem

[tim_duncan_fan]

Republicans have no morals. You can't possibly be a Republican and have decent human values.

You waste your time debating with them.

[Findog]

There are Republicans who served on that same board foundation with Bill Ayers.

[I Love Me Some Me]

There are Republicans who served on that same board foundation with Bill Ayers.

Are they running for President?

[Findog]

Are they running for President?

Does that equate to them "palling around with terrorists?"

[Wild Cobra]

You listen to all of those shows?

You need a life.
Not on a daily basis. When I listen to Talk radio, it includes one of them, sometimes two. They have all mentioned the connections with some rather idertesing assessments and facts. I was listening to Lars Larson when I started on the net today. He has a local show, then a national show following. I only listen to talk radio when I'm in the car, or on the web. I switch around to keep from being bored. I seldom listen to Rush because he's just 'over the top'. I also seldom listen to Michael Savage, but am now.

[Wild Cobra]

How many times have they been found guilty of voter fraud charges?
Look at the links in the other tread (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106575) I addressed this on. Some information is there. I am looking for the statistics of the 100+ convictions, but haven't found it yet.

[Wild Cobra]

Has this one been linked yet:

dvROBLortBQ

The fact about how much Obama downplays his association with Ayres should really be a concern. He flat out lies about how well he knows the terrorist.

[Wild Cobra]

Well, no responce to the YouTube from you liberals? If you didn't watch it past the Palin scene, she only has a short few seconds at the start. It gets detailed later in. It must be true, it's from CNN, right? It's not Fox!

How about it Ozambies... What's your take?

[clambake]

Well, no responce to the YouTube from you liberals? If you didn't watch it past the Palin scene, she only has a short few seconds at the start. It gets detailed later in. It must be true, it's from CNN, right? It's not Fox!

How about it Ozambies... What's your take?

what do you expect from a tractor pull crowd?

[ChumpDumper]

There's nothing new in it, and it still doesn't matter. I haven't seen a strategy that has been proven to fail so consistently stuck to so insanely for so long.

All it proves is that McCain and Palin are completely out of ideas --and by extension you are out of ideas because you never had of your own in the first place.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Has this one been linked yet:

dvROBLortBQ

The fact about how much Obama downplays his association with Ayres should really be a concern. He flat out lies about how well he knows the terrorist.

maybe because he really has no association with Ayers. Ever thought of that? I know you people have been trying to find tangible proof of this supposed palling around between obama an ayers. Maybe the reason you haven't found any links is because there were none.

[hitmanyr2k]

Has this one been linked yet:

dvROBLortBQ

The fact about how much Obama downplays his association with Ayres should really be a concern. He flat out lies about how well he knows the terrorist.

Why not downplay it? What does it mean in the overall scheme of things? I don't know one presidential candidate that came into office without questionable ties/associations. Who cares? This is just more political crap for people who are LOSING :lol

The Clinton machine tried it...didn't work. Why does McCain think it's going to work now? It's pathetic that these guys can't speak about ISSUES and instead have to throw shit against the wall and see if it sticks. I said a month ago that if McCain didn't drop the Bush 2.0 campaign and start talking issues he would be in deep shit. And a month later it's sad to see he and his campaign hasn't learned a damn thing. People don't want to hear about dumbass conspiracy theories. They want to hear McCain's agenda for this country the next 4 years and he hasn't delivered shit.

[Wild Cobra]

The major problem is that Obama is lying about how well he does know Ayres. If he was honest about what is know, it would be believeable that is where it ends at. In lying, we must wonder how much more there is to the association because circumstantial evidence points to an actual long friendship.

[ChumpDumper]

How much "must" we wonder?

What specific danger do you think a relationship with Ayers foretells?

[Wild Cobra]

How much "must" we wonder?

What specific danger do you think a relationship with Ayers foretells?
Who people associate with on a regular basis shows us their charactor. Maybe it doesn't matter to you, but ethical charactor is very imporatnt to me.