More Charley Rosen crap....

[Phenomanul]

an excerpt from his new article:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8609688/The-best-two-way-players-in-NBA-history

The best two-way players in NBA history

Centers

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's ability to defend depended mostly on his size and his general athleticism. Still, he managed to cover the lane and close the sky more often than not.

Wilt Chamberlain registered the only single-triple in NBA history and played overwhelming defense upon occasion. Before blocked shots were recorded, his contemporaries swore that he would average at least a half-dozen per game.

Dave Cowens employed hard fouls in lieu of blocked shots, and his effectiveness on defense can be quantified by the enormous number of bruises he dispensed. Cowens tallied most of his points on jumpers, hooks, put-backs and layups on the run.

Tim Duncan is a prime-time scorer as well as the best help-defender extant in the league.

Hakeem Olajuwon could be the most skilled player ever at the center spot. He's also one of the classiest individuals who ever laced them up at any level of competition.

David Robinson was relatively soft, limited offensively and lacked an overriding passion for the game. But he could come from another time zone and either block or discourage layups.

Bill Russell's best scoring season was 18.9 ppg (with Boston in 1961-62), tallying his points on hooks, put-backs and a rare jumper. If the points he contributed to the Celtics' dynasty were unexpected bonuses, Russell cannot be excluded from any discussion that includes the words "centers" and "defense."

Nate Thurmond didn't have much of a shooting touch but averaged 20-plus points five times in his career. In addition, he rebounded like he was a hungry wolf and every missed shot was a lamb chop. Thurmond ranks behind only Russell on the list of the NBA's best-ever defensive big men. That makes Thurmond the most accomplished two-way center who ever played in the wonderful world of the NBA.



What did Robinson ever do to Rosen?

[Biernutz]

Looks like a pre-season column to get everyone wound up before the season starts.

[baseline bum]

At least he didn't put Ewing on the list. Nothing is more sickening than seeing East Coast media trash David on these kinds of lists while propping Ewing for doing nothing but shooting 16-foot jumpers.

[Solid D]

David Robinson...limited offensively...

:lmao :wow He led the NBA in scoring one year, averaging almost 30 ppg for the season (29.8).

[exstatic]

Rosen is a Laker dick munch. Take that into account when you read any of his stuff.

[m33p0]

What did Robinson ever do to Rosen?
he often accuses Robinson of having no passion for the game. it's nothing new.

[WildcardManu]

douchebag

[xellos88330]

That writer just lost all of his credibility IMO, this being my first time reading something he wrote and all.

[Allanon]

With the 5 guys above him, it's hard to say that DRob should be any higher, although I've never seen Dave Cowens play. He might have been hard on the description part but the ranking's good.

I think the Admiral's placed pretty well on the top two way guys ever.

[xellos88330]

He was right to put both Duncan and Robinson on there, but described their court actions rather terribly.

[T Park]

Robinson > Cowens

[Phenomanul]

With the 5 guys above him, it's hard to say that DRob should be any higher, although I've never seen Dave Cowens play. He might have been hard on the description part but the ranking's good.

I think the Admiral's placed pretty well on the top two way guys ever.

David's inclusion on the list should be a no-brainer. And I'm not particularly bothered by the ranking. The article however, could do without Rosen's backhanded 'compliments' towards Robinson - comments he has often tried to pass off as truth. In fact, his articles are largely responsible for the media's negative bias towards David's abilities.

[MrChug]

WHO'S "list of the NBA's best ever defensive big men" jerkoff? Yours?!?!?!?!? I'm guessing that's gonna be a yes...

[Warlord23]

With the 5 guys above him, it's hard to say that DRob should be any higher, although I've never seen Dave Cowens play. He might have been hard on the description part but the ranking's good.

I think the Admiral's placed pretty well on the top two way guys ever.

There are no ranks here ... he lists them alphabetically, and that's the only way Kobe Bryant figures above Jordan in the list of 2-way SGs, or DJ over Payton in PGs

[dn0774]

I dont agree with the no passion thing he said...but when a guy is rumored to not touch a basketball all summer long season after season I can see why people think that (makes sense when you take into account that David was notorious for slow starts in Novembers). Also, David was limited offensively without a doubt imo. His jumper looked like someone held down the shoot button too long on NBA Jam and his post game was basically out-quick his defender to the hoop and finish...which was fine for a time when he was athletically superior to every other big in the league.

After his back injury though he never had the clear cut athletic advantage he had previously and it resulted in his sharp decline, at least on the offensive end (David was still an elite defender till the day he hung em up assuming he wasn't playing in lots of pain, which seemed rare those last few years).

I certainly dont like hearing people call David soft either, but the fact is he habitually underperformed in the playoffs year after year...his stats always seemed to take a big dive in the post-season. He's still my fave all time player but his shortcomings cant be denied.

[dn0774]

I will add that it is low class of Rosen to criticize a guy in what is supposed to be a complementary article...especially when the other guys brief snippets appear to be all positive except for Davids (based on the portion posted).

[Allanon]

There are no ranks here ... he lists them alphabetically, and that's the only way Kobe Bryant figures above Jordan in the list of 2-way SGs, or DJ over Payton in PGs

Ah, I didn't know there was more to this article, you're right, it isn't listed by ranking. Not much of a fan of Rosen myself, but his game analysis is usually pretty in-depth.

[timvp]

Rosen has had man-hate against Robinson for the last decade. Every time he mentions Robinson, he bashes him. He'll even randomly work him into articles to bash Robinson.

[Harry Callahan]

I saw Cowens play - an undersized center who had much better players around him the bulk of his career than DR did.

Until Tim Duncan arrived, David Robinson did not get nearly the support Cowens did. Cowens would get eaten alive if he played today.

David Robinson had no problems scoring the basketball in any way shape or form when he was physically well. He may not have had a signature shot, but the combination of a good jump shot along with the ability to finish at the rim was outstanding.

That series against Houston in 1995, when the 2nd best player on the team quit on the team (knucklehead Rodman), will unfortunately be hung around Robinson's neck.

David was more limited offensively late in his career when the back and knee problems took away a lot of his athletic ability.

[polandprzem]

Cowens?

I would put Mourning on that list ahead of Cowens

[Harry Callahan]

I certainly dont like hearing people call David soft either, but the fact is he habitually underperformed in the playoffs year after year...his stats always seemed to take a big dive in the post-season. He's still my fave all time player but his shortcomings cant be denied.

Robinson was limited offensively only AFTER his back and knee problems - that's the point. I doubt Rosen even saw David play that many games back in the early to Mid 90s (pre-Duncan).

Dennis Rodman was supposed to help David out and was really interested in doing that when he felt like it. A kook.

Terry Cummings could have been the one to help the early 90s Spurs get over the top, but he blew out a knee in 1992 or 1993 and was never the same.

The point guard position was a revolving door with Maurice Cheeks, Rod Strickland, Vinny Del Negro, Avery Johnson.

Robinson was expected to carry the Spurs to Championships during his prime, but how many teams have won the whole thing without a quality point guard?

[exstatic]

With the 5 guys above him, it's hard to say that DRob should be any higher, although I've never seen Dave Cowens play. He might have been hard on the description part but the ranking's good.

I think the Admiral's placed pretty well on the top two way guys ever.

The descriptions for both Tim and DRob were insulting, but I pointed out why that was so in my previous post. DRob could easily be above Cowens and Hakeem. People forget, but other than that one series, he owned on Hakeem to the tune of like 30-10 in head to heads. If Rodman hadn't had his head up his ass, Hakeem's wonderful series would have been as forgettable as Amare's 37 ppg against us in the 2005 WCFs.

[exstatic]

I think thats a pretty fair description of Robinson... kind of soft, non-leaderish type of player. Hell, even Gilbert Arenas can average 30 in this league, its not hard to do when you are the star of the team.

Soft players can't regularly deny Shaq his post position, and limited offensive players don't win a scoring title. The worst you can really say about him is that he didn't burn for the game. Guess what? Neither did Wilt.

[The Franchise]

The descriptions for both Tim and DRob were insulting, but I pointed out why that was so in my previous post. DRob could easily be above Cowens and Hakeem. People forget, but other than that one series, he owned on Hakeem to the tune of like 30-10 in head to heads. If Rodman hadn't had his head up his ass, Hakeem's wonderful series would have been as forgettable as Amare's 37 ppg against us in the 2005 WCFs.

Sounds good but thats not what happened. Dave was good but he was pretty soft.

[exstatic]

Regularly deny Shaq his post??? Come on man, be honest for once in your life. No one could deny Shaq his post. Robinson spent most of his time in foul touble guarding Shaq. And as far as him being ahead of Hakeem... Please!!!

Russell owned on Wilt over a LONG period of time, much longer than that one series that was an abberration in the DRob/Hakeem lifetime matchup, yet he's below Wilt. Why does Hakeem get a pass for one series? Makes no sense. David owned him with an inferior supporting cast over the course of their careers.

Oh, and you need to go back and re-watch the 2003 series, with David at the end of his career, and Shaq just cresting his peak, and see about the post position denial. No one played Shaq any better than David. No one.

[ambchang]

David Robinson - the softest player to ever lead the league in dunks, rebounds, blocked shots, and also the softest player to ever guard Shaq one on one with a floating particle in his backk.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

David must have done something awfully mean to Charlie Rosen before finding Jesus to inspire such a lasting grudge. Or maybe he's such a Lakers leg humper that he never forgave DRob for refusing to give Shaq an autograph in Shaq's head.

[Obstructed_View]

David Robinson - the softest player to ever lead the league in free throw attempts.

[Fingaroll44]

He was right to put both Duncan and Robinson on there, but described their court actions rather terribly.

exactly. its not where they are on the list but what he said.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm not here to defend Rosen and take exception to his comments about David as others have. But I'm not sure I get the criticisms of his comments about Duncan at all.

Does the inaccuracy in the description of Duncan stem from calling him the best help defender in the game at the moment? If so, I don't see how that's really unfair. It doesn't imply that Tim isn't a good man defender; it just says that nobody plays help defense like Duncan does -- and that's true. If the clowns who vote for DPOY took the time to actually monitor what Duncan does defensively for the Spurs and how well he does it all, he'd have multiple DPOY awards on his shelf, too. It's criminal that Duncan has never won that award; it's his combination of good man defense and exceptional help defense that makes the Spurs great defensively every year (and that has made the Spurs one of history's greatest defensive teams, both on a seasonal basis and over an extended stretch of time).

I don't see how calling Tim a "prime-time scorer" is anything but a compliment, either.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm not here to defend Rosen and take exception to his comments about David as others have. But I'm not sure I get the criticisms of his comments about Duncan at all.

Seems like weak praise at best to go out of one's way to say only that Duncan is the best help defender currently in the NBA. Considering that he also suggests that Robinson was getting blocks from the weak side, it reads like he doesn't put much value in help defense, and is trying to explain it away. From a guy who made a point of praising Hakeem for being classy with no mention of same for Robinson, my expectations aren't high.

[The Truth #6]

Yeah, praising Hakeem for being classy and not David seems odd. However, it's clear that Rosen is not classy. He can be insightful when he doesn't lower himself to cheap attacks, which unfortunately happens too often.

[SequSpur]

this is dumb