Why I'm voting for .....

[MannyIsGod]

Leave all partisan politics and arguments in the other threads. Let people simply post why they are supporting who they are supporting. Do not challenge their views, and let it be.

I'll go first.

I'm supporting Obama (duh) for many reasons but there are a few that stand out. I think that if McCain had been closer to the 2000 version of himself I may have had a tougher decision to make but the sad reality for me is that John McCain is no longer a maverick nor is he the straight talk express no matter how much he wants to claim he is. I believe this started when McCain sold out to the crazy Evangelical leaders he would later try to disassociate from.

In any event, the defining even of my adult life will always be 9/11. It is extremely clear that this event was used as an excuse by the Republican administration to invade Iraq. Cheney, Wolfowitz, and others in that administration simply used 9/11 as an opportunity.

I think there has to be consequences to this. When you add this up to the power grabbing of the current administration and their utter failure to handle anything competently I simply cannot vote for anyone in their party who does not represent a large departure from this. That is not McCain.

Obama is in many ways the anti-Bush. He's vastlly more intelligent, he's far more reserved, and his general views on the way America should handle itself on the world stage are far closer to mine than McCain's are. McCain's temper and demeanor are also of issue with me.

George Will said it best:



It is arguable that, because of his inexperience, Obama is not ready for the presidency. It is arguable that McCain, because of his boiling moralism and bottomless reservoir of certitudes, is not suited to the presidency. Unreadiness can be corrected, although perhaps at great cost, by experience. Can a dismaying temperament be fixed?





This is not to say I don't have issues with Obama. I worry greatly about his interaction with a congress controlled by the Democrats and possible economic legislation. It is ironic to me that the economy is the issue driving Obama into the White House because I think its his weakest issue.

I see the presidency as an office that has far more to do with foreign relations than it does with domestic agendas. Sadly, the American public doesn't see thigns this way and there is cause for concern if the Democrats are allowed to take controll of congress to the extent that they get any piece of legislation available.

That being said, considering the depth of the mess that the Republicans have us in at this time, its a chance I'm willing to take. People can talk about how the Democrats blocked Republicans from passing legislation, but the fact is that if the Republicans hadn't been busy trying to keep us safe from the gays and passing legislation against online poker then perhaps they could have focused on issues that really mattered to the security of our economy and nation. (On a note, one of the reasons I like Biden is he was one of the few Senators against legislation regarding online gambling)

If political reasons are not enough, I am also voting for Barack Obama because of his race. Let me be clear about this, I feel Barack is the most qualified candidate, but the fact that he's a minority plays a factor in how important this election is for me. Had I felt Barack was not the most qualified of the 2, I would not vote for him based on his race. That being said, i am far more excited at the moment because he is a minority.

As someone who has dealt with racism directily and indirectly, I feel I understand the importance that Obama can play as a symbol. People remember the Jackie Robinson, they remember Rosa Parks, and they remember Ceaser Chavez. These people all served to inspire people to walk in their footsetps and they all tore down doors and obstacles for the people who would come behind them. Obama can be more than a president; he can be the start of a movement for many Americans who come from the shadow of inequality and that is incredibly important for me.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

I am voting for Obama.

Number one reason is this, and I don't give a shit what anyone here says: I am tired of this nation getting fucked by aged white guys and I'm willing to give a black guy a chance. So like you batmanuel, I am voting partly because of race.

I am also voting for Obama because I genuinely believe his socialized health care is a gimmick, a perfect parallel for how neocons use abortion as a political issue. It's not going to happen, folks. All the Obama haters who use this as a chief reason are delusional. Wake up, it's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

I am voting for Obama because of the way he can carry a crowd. I consider the way the rest of the world views us a big deal. If you look at any empire in the history of the world, part of their dominance is based on cultural influence. Our military dominance is cemented for at least the next 25 years. Our political dominance is vanishing by the day, so I have felt that our cultural domination of the world's memes is the best method by which we can cement ourselves as a dominant nation in the upcoming world reshuffling of powers. McCain is not as good as a catalyst for this as Obama is.


I am voting for Obama because McCain has completely souled out. I think John McCain was good for this country in 2000. I think he made himself a fool when he went on the record ridiculing W in the 03-05 era yet wholeheartedly supported him WHEN IT MATTERED.

I like the guy, think he would be a good leader, but anyone who pusses out like that does not deserve my vote. Obama is young and has an advantage that he has not douched out as hardcore as McCain has because he's still relatively new to politics.....and Obama 'promising' to appoint members of both parties to his cabinet leads to my final reason I am voting for him, because I have only mild reservations about this statement of his.

[Hook Dem]

"Leave all partisan politics and arguments in the other threads." What a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you still trying to convince others to think like you?:lmao

[I Love Me Some Me]

I am voting for Obama.

Number one reason is this, and I don't give a shit what anyone here says: I am tired of this nation getting fucked by aged white guys and I'm willing to give a black guy a chance. So like you batmanuel, I am voting partly because of race.

I am also voting for Obama because I genuinely believe his socialized health care is a gimmick, a perfect parallel for how neocons use abortion as a political issue. It's not going to happen, folks. All the Obama haters who use this as a chief reason are delusional. Wake up, it's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

I am voting for Obama because of the way he can carry a crowd. I consider the way the rest of the world views us a big deal. If you look at any empire in the history of the world, part of their dominance is based on cultural influence. Our military dominance is cemented for at least the next 25 years. Our political dominance is vanishing by the day, so I have felt that our cultural domination of the world's memes is the best method by which we can cement ourselves as a dominant nation in the upcoming world reshuffling of powers. McCain is not as good as a catalyst for this as Obama is.


I am voting for Obama because McCain has completely souled out. I think John McCain was good for this country in 2000. I think he made himself a fool when he went on the record ridiculing W in the 03-05 era yet wholeheartedly supported him WHEN IT MATTERED.

I like the guy, think he would be a good leader, but anyone who pusses out like that does not deserve my vote. Obama is young and has an advantage that he has not douched out as hardcore as McCain has because he's still relatively new to politics.....and Obama 'promising' to appoint members of both parties to his cabinet leads to my final reason I am voting for him, because I have only mild reservations about this statement of his.

So you're voting for Obama because

1. He's black
2. His major platform is a bullshit gimmick
3. He's a good speaker
4. He's not John McCain

[Anti.Hero]

:rollin

[101A]

I am voting for Bob Barr because he is the third party candidate who is going to get the most votes this cycle; and I want, at some point, for the complicit monopoly the two major parties have over this country to eventually be broken.

I used to (like 2 weeks ago, lol) drink the kool-aid that there is actually a reasonable amount of difference between the parties and their candidates. There is not. The biggest "divisive" issue they run on: Obama wants to "Make the Rich Pay their fair share" - and McCain calls this "Wealth redistribution". What is the difference in their actual stated positions? 35.4 vs. 39%! That's it. That's what the fuss is about. 3.6 percetage points. We are being worked; told to look at the left hand, while the right hand puts on a latex glove, and makes a fist. You know what's coming. I ain't gonna feel good; and there are going to be two parties driving it home.

You don't believe me? Look at the reeletion % for Senators and even House members this cycle; THAT is where the real power lies; and many of those people keep their jobs for life; despite the fact that congress has a single digit approval rating. You fear the OTHER side SO much, you wouldn't dare put vote for one of them to teach the incumbent a lesson.

Fuck them.

[Bartleby]

I am voting for Bob Barr because he is the third party candidate who is going to get the most votes this cycle; and I want, at some point, for the complicit monopoly the two major parties have over this country to eventually be broken.

I used to (like 2 weeks ago, lol) drink the kool-aid that there is actually a reasonable amount of difference between the parties and their candidates. There is not. The biggest "divisive" issue they run on: Obama wants to "Make the Rich Pay their fair share" - and McCain calls this "Wealth redistribution". What is the difference in their actual stated positions? 35.4 vs. 39%! That's it. That's what the fuss is about. 3.6 percetage points. We are being worked; told to look at the left hand, while the right hand puts on a latex glove, and makes a fist. You know what's coming. I ain't gonna feel good; and there are going to be two parties driving it home.

Good post for the most part. When it comes to their respective policies and what they will probably try to do while in office, there isn't nearly as much difference between McCain and Obama as many people would like us to believe. The biggest real difference is probably temperament, and Obama gets the edge in that department.

However, there are substantive differences between Obama and Palin (and between McCain and Palin for that matter). We could probably get through a McCain administration, but I shudder to think what sort of decisions and/or appointments Palin would make if he died or became incapacitated during office.

And for the record, Obama will be getting my vote.

[VaSpursFan]

I am voting for Bob Barr because he is the third party candidate who is going to get the most votes this cycle; and I want, at some point, for the complicit monopoly the two major parties have over this country to eventually be broken.

I used to (like 2 weeks ago, lol) drink the kool-aid that there is actually a reasonable amount of difference between the parties and their candidates. There is not. The biggest "divisive" issue they run on: Obama wants to "Make the Rich Pay their fair share" - and McCain calls this "Wealth redistribution". What is the difference in their actual stated positions? 35.4 vs. 39%! That's it. That's what the fuss is about. 3.6 percetage points. We are being worked; told to look at the left hand, while the right hand puts on a latex glove, and makes a fist. You know what's coming. I ain't gonna feel good; and there are going to be two parties driving it home.

You don't believe me? Look at the reeletion % for Senators and even House members this cycle; THAT is where the real power lies; and many of those people keep their jobs for life; despite the fact that congress has a single digit approval rating. You fear the OTHER side SO much, you wouldn't dare put vote for one of them to teach the incumbent a lesson.

Fuck them.

I'm not voting for Bob Barr but I agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly. I'm voting for obama simply because he's not republican or john mccain. this is truly an election of the lesser of two evils for me. for me, the biggest issue is to restore the image of America. We need a cool, even-tempered analytical guy versus another hothead. So, I give the edge to Obama because he's a composed leader...and well, smart...LOL

[MannyIsGod]

"Leave all partisan politics and arguments in the other threads." What a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you still trying to convince others to think like you?:lmao

Why is that a joke? Is it a difficult request to have a thread where people can voice their views without having it all boil down to Whottt and Chump arguing over the same ridiculous things? Are the other bajillion threads in this forum not enough for that kind of thing?

The whole point was to have a thread where no one tried to convince anyone of anything, but apparently that too difficult a concept for you.

[clambake]

the most important factor is to restore americas image. obama will CLEARLY have an advantage of getting other countries to work together.

[TomBrady]

I'm voting for Obama for all the reasons Manny described in his post.

In addition, I'm a huge believer that this country is headed towards a disaster if we don't address the glaring issues in our education system. We need to be much further ahead in math and science to compete with other foreign countries. We need heavy investment in science and technology to stay relevant in the global economy. I want a President who does not view technology through a religious lens.

Also, as has been discussed the idea of Palin anywhere near the WhiteHouse scares the shit out of me. She's less qualified than even Bush was and I see in her a very divisive and polarizing future.

In the end I believe Obama will be more centrist than he is a lefty. He's pragmatic, calm, and cool under pressure. Exactly what we need in the next 8 years to get back on the right track. McCain is erratic, hot tempered, and itchy for fighting the next great war. The Republican Party in its present state needs to be dismantled. This can only happen if we elect Obama.

[Anti.Hero]

I made up my mind months ago I'd be voting third party. It's an easy choice living in Texas.

These RINOs can go fuck themselves. It's just too bad we will have to suffer with far-left Noobama in the meantime.

[101A]

In addition, I'm a huge believer that this country is headed towards a disaster if we don't address the glaring issues in our education system. We need to be much further ahead in math and science to compete with other foreign countries. We need heavy investment in science and technology to stay relevant in the global economy. I want a President who does not view technology through a religious lens.



I agree on the Math and Science thing; and not debating here, but we are FUCKED on this front. The math currucula that are being published and swallowed, and thus thrust down the throats of our children are a joke!!!

My wife is a Ph.D. Biochemist; our son got her smarts (lucky for him) - is VERY interested in Science; reads my old lady's journals (Chemical and Engineering News, Nature, Science), like other kids read, errr, I guess other kids don't read, anyway....Left to the public education's devices, and curriculum, even HE would be falling behind. Their are not REAL mathematicians or scientists teaching our children anymore. They are "Math Education" or "Science Education" majors; which means a little math or science, and a LOT of education courses!!!! Then, when they "teach" grading boils down to, 90% of the time - whether or not you could follow directions. Seriously; look at National Honor Societies these days; dominated by females (nothing wrong with that - look who I married), but boys are getting driven out of the education system in HUGE numbers because they don't fit the model of the demure, sit there and do what you are told, student. They challenge, they rebel, they squirm; all of which gets them relegated to the "lesser" tracks and classes. Net result? Intelligent kids who don't realize how intelligent they are - whose talents have not been fostered. It is scary. If you have children in school, you know what I am talking about. We have a coming intellect shortage in this country that is going to be difficult to get over (right now there are more non-Americans enrolled in Scientific Post-Graduate programs IN THIS COUNTRY than their are U.S. Citizens. We are going to teach them; train them, then send them back to their home countries (China, Taiwan, India), where they will compete with us.

The problem isn't money; we spend more than EVER on education per capita in this country in REAL dollars; and more than many other developed countries. The problem is the WAY we are educating kids, and WHO is educating them.

[Bartleby]

We have a coming intellect shortage in this country that is going to be difficult to get over (right now there are more non-Americans enrolled in Scientific Post-Graduate programs IN THIS COUNTRY than their are U.S. Citizens. We are going to teach them; train them, then send them back to their home countries (China, Taiwan, India), where they will compete with us.

Maybe part of the solution is to encourage these highly educated immigrants to stay in the U.S. rather than kick them out so they can make significant contributions to our own economy.

http://www.secure-x-001.net/SecureGeo/Issue/SecureObservationComments.asp?IssueFunction=103&Site=109&Portal=1

[SpursFanFirst]

I'm voting for McCain.

From the moment Obama burst on the scenes, I haven't trusted him. The more he talks, the more scared I become.

*I get the impression that, once he becomes President, this country will become entirely dependent on the government. How scary is that?

Need health insurance? No problem. The government will give you that!

*I hate his views on Iraq.
Perhaps we never should have gone in there, but regardless, we're there.
We shouldn't pull troops out until the job is done.

*I think he talks out of both sides of his mouth.
For example, he's running an ad where he touts women making the same wages as men.
Not too long ago, I read on article where, within his own HQ, he pays women less.

Those are just a few reasons.

I wish we had better options. Since we don't, I'll vote the lesser of two evils.
I just wish I had a better feeling about the upcoming election. :(

[VaSpursFan]

I agree on the Math and Science thing; and not debating here, but we are FUCKED on this front. The math currucula that are being published and swallowed, and thus thrust down the throats of our children are a joke!!!

My wife is a Ph.D. Biochemist; our son got her smarts (lucky for him) - is VERY interested in Science; reads my old lady's journals (Chemical and Engineering News, Nature, Science), like other kids read, errr, I guess other kids don't read, anyway....Left to the public education's devices, and curriculum, even HE would be falling behind. Their are not REAL mathematicians or scientists teaching our children anymore. They are "Math Education" or "Science Education" majors; which means a little math or science, and a LOT of education courses!!!! Then, when they "teach" grading boils down to, 90% of the time - whether or not you could follow directions. Seriously; look at National Honor Societies these days; dominated by females (nothing wrong with that - look who I married), but boys are getting driven out of the education system in HUGE numbers because they don't fit the model of the demure, sit there and do what you are told, student. They challenge, they rebel, they squirm; all of which gets them relegated to the "lesser" tracks and classes. Net result? Intelligent kids who don't realize how intelligent they are - whose talents have not been fostered. It is scary. If you have children in school, you know what I am talking about. We have a coming intellect shortage in this country that is going to be difficult to get over (right now there are more non-Americans enrolled in Scientific Post-Graduate programs IN THIS COUNTRY than their are U.S. Citizens. We are going to teach them; train them, then send them back to their home countries (China, Taiwan, India), where they will compete with us.

The problem isn't money; we spend more than EVER on education per capita in this country in REAL dollars; and more than many other developed countries. The problem is the WAY we are educating kids, and WHO is educating them.

here, here. the no child left behind act is purely insane. i don't have kids in school yet, my little one is about to turn 3 but the American public school education model is broken. I have nieces who are 10 and 7 and they don't learn. there is no criticial thinking taught, IMO. my nieces are being taught how to be professional test takers...some shit called the S.O.L. that all teachers are up in arms about.

there is a lot of work to get us back on the right track and we need to start looking towards Europe, Asia, and elsewhere for a model that works.

[baseline bum]

I'm voting for Obama because:

1) McCain's top economic adviser was Phil Gramm, who is right there with Cheney among the most corrupt politicians this country has ever had. After seeing Gramm push legislation that let Enron rip off the entire state of California, no way in hell do I want president who thinks this is good for the country (fuck you too Bush for vetoing the bill to close the Enron loophole).

2) Obama isn't a war hawk who thinks we should stay in Iraq for the next 100 years. We should have never been in Iraq in the first place, and the earlier we get out, the better. It's a huge waste of our tax dollars, the lives of our soldiers, and offers no utility to the American people.

Even though I hate the war and think it should not have ever happened, it's even worse the way the Bush administration executed it. Cheney and Rumsfeld gave the army way too small of an invading force incapable of keeping peace after taking Baghdad, leading to chaos.... and yet, I didn't hear a peep out of McCain until he jumped on with the surge in 2007. Another strike against McCain was him being a suckup to corrupt Shia piece of shit Chalabi that the administration tried to push as a leader to a mostly-Sunni nation.

3) Obama's a relative unknown. Yeah, he could end up being the same kind of corrupt prick that Bush is, but taking an unknown is better than taking someone like McCain who has shown himself time and again to at best make horrible decisions for our nation. He's not off to a good start with voting yes on the bailout, but the other option did the same.

SIDE NOTE: I'm thankful it's not Clinton on the Dem ticket after the way she and her husband sold our country and lots of manufacturing jobs out to China to make her allies at Wal-Mart richer. If it was Clinton vs McCain it'd be a much more difficult decision.

4) I'm scared as shit of Sarah Palin and of giving anymore power to the Christian right so they can further push bullshit like creationist dogma, throwing our tax money away on abstinence education, and perhaps force taxpayers to sponsor religious schools through vouchers.

5) Fuck the neocon warhawk big-spending low-taxing platform that's killing the value of our dollar. The Republican party is such a joke right now because of the neo-cons. If you want low taxes, then reign in the spending. I hate that the Republican party stands for only social conservatism and sometimes yes, sometimes no on economic conservatism. You can't ague for deregulation and then put money into propping up companies that destroyed themselves by gambling with that extra rope you gave them. Socialism for the rich is fucking bullshit.

6) Voting third party in a presidential election is a waste. The election process is set up so that a strong third party candidate ensures Congress picks the president instead of the people. Nothing short of violent revolution will ever change that, as there's no way the two parties that control this nation will give up their power here unless they're looking down a rifle.

[shelshor]

McCain-he only disgusts me
I never did like Bob Barr
Obama lost my vote when he made his statement about those bitter small town people clinging to their guns & religion; I have have an immediate distrust for anything that is presented as the greatest thing since sliced bread; and anyone coming out of the machine politics of Boston, New Orleans, Chicago and Detroit should be kept as far from the White House as possible

[baseline bum]

In addition, I'm a huge believer that this country is headed towards a disaster if we don't address the glaring issues in our education system. We need to be much further ahead in math and science to compete with other foreign countries. We need heavy investment in science and technology to stay relevant in the global economy. I want a President who does not view technology through a religious lens.

I think one of our main problems is that our math and science courses are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator based on this insistence that everyone has to go to college (and thus be taught a college-prep sequence).

Our education system absolutely fails when it comes to non college-bound students. Instead of teaching them how to become carpenters, mechanics, electricians, plumbers, etc., our system tells them they're stupid because they don't have an aptitude for theoretical knowledge, which leads to high dropout rates with lots of people leaving with no skills.

This carries over into not being able to teach rigorous math and science courses to those who can/want to be our future engineers. High school science classes (with the exception of AP) don't teach any kind of critical thinking and thus are stuck doing more rote memorization and busy-work to keep them teachable to students that don't have the aptitude for them.

[BacktoBasics]

I'm not voting for anyone. I choose to not vote because it doesn't matter. The real voices of the people never play a huge part in how things are done to begin with. I don't care how many people line up to rant on and on about how they'll do things because its rarely them that gets its accomplished.

We live in a world where the publics needs and opinions are rarely taken into consideration to begin with. Sure they address our needs but its never cut and dry and its never something that can be accomplished unless its feeding the hands that grab for anything orbiting around it. Large fundamental things never get accomplished unless it supports a few with the power and ability to leverage it. No matter how much we stand up and no matter how many people speak out about it this country will never get what we truely need from our government because its too damn big. There are too many hands crippling the ability for the common man to make a difference.

I'll vote when the day comes where each and every important decision can be made on its own two feet. I'll vote when a bill can be voted on for its own merit and not a bunch of garbage attaching itself to gain a wider audience. How can we expect to ever break thru if every single defining moment has to have other lesser important issues attached. I'll vote when the size of the government shrinks down to a level where smaller groups or singular people can be easily isolated when something has to be accounted for. I'll vote when they establish a system that designed to work for the working people rather than be exploited.

I'll probably never vote.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

the most important factor is to restore americas image. obama will CLEARLY have an advantage of getting other countries to work together.

Fuck that. America needs to take care of America first. Not worry about people at the U.N. think.

[RandomGuy]

Fuck that. America needs to take care of America first. Not worry about people at the U.N. think.


Do not challenge their views, and let it be.

[clambake]

Fuck that. America needs to take care of America first. Not worry about people at the U.N. think.

mccain thinks spain is an enemy.

[ducks]

the most important factor is to restore americas image. obama will CLEARLY have an advantage of getting other countries to work together.

why do you think they like blacks?

[ducks]

I'm not voting for anyone. I choose to not vote because it doesn't matter. The real voices of the people never play a huge part in how things are done to begin with. I don't care how many people line up to rant on and on about how they'll do things because its rarely them that gets its accomplished.

We live in a world where the publics needs and opinions are rarely taken into consideration to begin with. Sure they address our needs but its never cut and dry and its never something that can be accomplished unless its feeding the hands that grab for anything orbiting around it. Large fundamental things never get accomplished unless it supports a few with the power and ability to leverage it. No matter how much we stand up and no matter how many people speak out about it this country will never get what we truely need from our government because its too damn big. There are too many hands crippling the ability for the common man to make a difference.

I'll vote when the day comes where each and every important decision can be made on its own two feet. I'll vote when a bill can be voted on for its own merit and not a bunch of garbage attaching itself to gain a wider audience. How can we expect to ever break thru if every single defining moment has to have other lesser important issues attached. I'll vote when the size of the government shrinks down to a level where smaller groups or singular people can be easily isolated when something has to be accounted for. I'll vote when they establish a system that designed to work for the working people rather than be exploited.

I'll probably never vote.

I SURE AS HELL HOPE YOU DO NOT BITCH ABOUT THE STATE OF AMERICA THEN

[clambake]

why do you think they like blacks?

500k didn't show up to lynch him. they came to listen. they expect their leaders to do the same.

[Findog]

mccain thinks spain is an enemy.

Sneaky tapas-eating motherfuckers. McCain will show them what's what.

[BacktoBasics]

I SURE AS HELL HOPE YOU DO NOT BITCH ABOUT THE STATE OF AMERICA THENSee this is where stupid stuck up know it all assfucks like yourself feel that you and only the ones who vote are intitled to bitch. My vote if I made one would amount to nothing. Hell we have a president who didn't even win the peoples election...talk about not counting. If something is wrong and its been done wrong I have every right to bitch...I pay fucking taxes therefore I have a right. The day I don't pay taxes is the day I have no right to bitch. GFY

[BacktoBasics]

I SURE AS HELL HOPE YOU DO NOT BITCH ABOUT THE STATE OF AMERICA THEN
How the fuck do I even know what happens with my vote.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzKbigGoMoo

[td4mvp21]

I'm voting for Obama.

-I like his views on Iraq/Afghanistan and the fact that his foreign policy won't be based on "Do what we say or we'll go to war".

-I like that he wants to reform NCLB, although I wish he would abolish it altogether.

-I like that he wants to get all children (who don't have a current healthcare plan) covered with health insurance. I'm not crazy about his universal healthcare idea but as long as families/individuals who have their own plan aren't forced to go on it, I think that will be ok. Hillary was the one with the mandate. And I don't even think he will get his universal healthcare passed. I think he will get the childrens aspect of it passed because Congress already approved a bill for it until Bush vetoed it.

-I like that he is going to place importance on energy independence and developing new forms of energy. He actually gives a shit about the environment.

-More oversight of business. Need I say more?

-I tend to trust him more than McCain. And I know it's the exact opposite for McCain supporters but it's a matter of perception and I perceive Obama to be more trustworthy. McCain is your classic flip-flopping politician IMO. And not that Obama hasn't flipflopped, but McCain in my eyes has done it far more.

In summary, I don't want four more years of Bush and that's the impression I've got from McCain.

[td4mvp21]

I think one of our main problems is that our math and science courses are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator based on this insistence that everyone has to go to college (and thus be taught a college-prep sequence).

Our education system absolutely fails when it comes to non college-bound students. Instead of teaching them how to become carpenters, mechanics, electricians, plumbers, etc., our system tells them they're stupid because they don't have an aptitude for theoretical knowledge, which leads to high dropout rates with lots of people leaving with no skills.

This carries over into not being able to teach rigorous math and science courses to those who can/want to be our future engineers. High school science classes (with the exception of AP) don't teach any kind of critical thinking and thus are stuck doing more rote memorization and busy-work to keep them teachable to students that don't have the aptitude for them.

Yep. And not to mention that in Texas the TAKS test is completely different than the curriculum (and I want to say it is a dumber version of the curriculum) and so teachers spend more time preparing students for the TAKS test (which requires minimal critical thinking) rather than teaching the curriculum, because the state gives more benefits to schools with higher TAKS scores.

[Findog]

I'm voting for Obama. He's not the messiah some of his overzealous supporters make him out to be, and the cult of personality that has sprung up around him is annoying. That said, the last Democratic President we had was competent, something you can't say about the current White House occupant or the current Republican nominee for President, or his running mate. We need the grownups back in charge.

The Republicans have failed. They have failed in foreign affairs, they have failed in economic management, they have failed in routine maintenance of things like bridges and levees, they have failed in holding the American people together, and they have failed in addressing our dependence on foreign energy. THEY HAVE FAILED.

Every day I become more and more impressed with Barack Obama's intelligence, demeanor, personal qualities and innate decency. It will be an honor to vote for him. I can't remember anyone I've voted for IN MY LIFE that I felt it would be an honor to vote for. I actually feel humbled to have this opportunity.

[Bigzax]

I'll vote for John because i don't think he has all the answers, and neither does he...from what i can tell.

While Obama seems to have all the answers, and i just don't believe that. i really like alot of what the man has to say, but it sounds just too good to be true, and i don't trust that feeling.

I also feel that McCain could get more dems to vote his way then Barrack could get repubs to vote his...

and though i liked bush, he just couldn't get shit done. that is a major disappointment, and i want a government that will be able to put one foot in front of the other instead of getting stuck in a partisan quagmire...


I really hope the best man for the country wins.

[ducks]

See this is where stupid stuck up know it all assfucks like yourself feel that you and only the ones who vote are intitled to bitch. My vote if I made one would amount to nothing. Hell we have a president who didn't even win the peoples election...talk about not counting. If something is wrong and its been done wrong I have every right to bitch...I pay fucking taxes therefore I have a right. The day I don't pay taxes is the day I have no right to bitch. GFY
so if every body felt the same way and did not vote
then it would end in a tie
then the average american people would have no say
is that what you want

[BacktoBasics]

so if every body felt the same way and did not vote
then it would end in a tie
then the average american people would have no say
is that what you wantI would welcome a day where the entire Country decided not to vote until a better system was clearly defined and offered.

My point is that I can bitch and not vote. See....I'm already doing it.

[ElNono]

so if every body felt the same way and did not vote
then it would end in a tie
then the average american people would have no say
is that what you want

Can you rephrase that? I followed until 'so if every body felt the same way and did not vote then it would end in a tie'... how that precludes the average american people from having anything to say? They already SAID they didn't want to vote...
You must have a typo there somewhere.

[timvp]

This could possibly be a very good thread :tu

I haven't 100% made up my mind but I'm about 95% leaning toward Obama. I'll wait until after the final two debates before solidifying my vote. Right now I'm leaning toward Obama, with second place being not to vote. McCain is third right now for me.

However, even though I'm going to vote for Obama in all likelihood, it's not because I agree with his stances. In fact, I think they are almost all faulty. His economic plan is a joke -- even his most ardent supporters typically won't argue otherwise. His stances regarding American business will make it harder for businesses to compete in the global market. His health care plan is impractical. I think giving an absolute timetable for a pullout is a tactical error. I disagree with most of his plans that call to make government even bigger. I disagree with his stances toward Cuba. I don't like how he doesn't all seem to put America first in all his policies. I can't believe he even semi supports No Child Left Behind. And most of all, I think his apparent strategy on how to go about keeping (and even bringing back) American jobs from getting outsourced is more dangerous than anything W has ever done domestically.

All that said, two things will allow me to get over all those disagreements. First of all, the power of the POTUS is highly overrated. He likely won't be able to bring everything he promises to reality (although there is more of a danger to that considering the state of all three branches). Secondly, most of his stances look more like election stances than practical stances. He's saying what he has to say to get elected. I think and hope that once he's elected, he won't try to follow through on all of his current promises. That is typically the case so hopefully Obama doesn't change course. Politicians lie and he will have the perfect excuse by pointing to the current financial crises for why he couldn't do everything he said he was going to do.

Why will I vote for him? First of all, I don't like McCain. I just don't like him. I think 95% of Senators are either slimeballs or become slimeballs by association. While Obama is a Senator as well, he hasn't been in the muck nearly as long as McCain has. McCain is also a sellout. I don't think it's admirable how he treated his first wife. He claims to be a maverick but it has been obvious that he's done everything in his political career the last 25 or so years with one eye on the White House. I think he's too old and basically I think he's a Democrat in Republican clothing. He's about as conservative as the Clintons. If he loses, my hope is that a true conservative candidate can arise down the line. It's not good for American to have two Democrats running for POTUS.

Second of all, I like Obama's leadership capabilities. He's a natural born leader who can inspire a crowd. America is still the greatest country in the world by far but it needs some encouragement to get going once again. It feels like the country is in a lull and I think Obama has a chance to get this machine rolling. He seems to have struck a chord with the dumber people in the country and those with a growing anti-US sentiment. The amount of dumb people in this country is overwhelming so having a shepherd at the helm is not a bad thing. Plus if McCain wins, that growing anti-US sentiment from the left could get ugly. I'd rather we avoid that. Basically I think Obama has a chance to steer the US into greener pastures.

That's about the end of my thought process in what goes into picking who to vote for. Obama's race is so very inconsequential to me. He was born in Hawaii, partly grew up in Indonesia and was mostly raised by white grandparents. I find it laughable that he's considered a pure black candidate because his white mother was inseminated by a man with a high amount of melanin in his skin. I don't consider him black; I consider him American. This is 2008, we should be above caring about skin pigment - especially when the person in question is a 50/50 mix. He's as much a white candidate as he is a black candidate, if not more . . . but that's probably a topic for another thread.

Oh and for the record, I don't think Obama becoming president is going to help race relations. If anything, I think it could hurt it. A large percentage of white people have been okay with double standards because they view themselves as being more privileged simply based on skin color. But with a "black man" as the POTUS, it's going to be more difficult to convince those same white people that other races need advantages to gain equality. Voting Obama to see an end to racism is relying on hugely flawed logic.

Bottomline is I don't love Obama as a candidate, in many respects I don't even like him as a candidate, but I view him as the best option. It's a dangerous vote due to how much I disagree with him but I'm hoping it ends up being the right vote.

Besides, how can a Spurs fan vote for a guy who happily claims to be a Maverick and is also a Suns season ticket holder?

:drunk

[spurster]

I'll be voting for Obama.

Pluses: his stances on torture/Gitmo, energy/global warming, tax cuts/loopholes, civil liberties. He is not anti-science.

Neutral: I like withdrawal from Iraq, but fear doing it too quickly. I like more universal health care, but fear the cost of how it might be implemented. Probably given the recession we're getting, we'll withdraw from Iraq too quickly, and not change health care too much.

Minuses: House, Senate, and POTUS all one party.

[101A]

I think one of our main problems is that our math and science courses are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator based on this insistence that everyone has to go to college (and thus be taught a college-prep sequence).

Our education system absolutely fails when it comes to non college-bound students. Instead of teaching them how to become carpenters, mechanics, electricians, plumbers, etc., our system tells them they're stupid because they don't have an aptitude for theoretical knowledge, which leads to high dropout rates with lots of people leaving with no skills.

This carries over into not being able to teach rigorous math and science courses to those who can/want to be our future engineers. High school science classes (with the exception of AP) don't teach any kind of critical thinking and thus are stuck doing more rote memorization and busy-work to keep them teachable to students that don't have the aptitude for them.

:toast

It should also be pointed out that MANY high school science and math teachers are not capable of teaching rigorous courses.

[101A]

Second of all, I like Obama's leadership capabilities. He's a natural born leader who can inspire a crowd. America is still the greatest country in the world by far but it needs some encouragement to get going once again. It feels like the country is in a lull and I think Obama has a chance to get this machine rolling. He seems to have struck a chord with the dumber people in the country and those with a growing anti-US sentiment. The amount of dumb people in this country is overwhelming so having a shepherd at the helm is not a bad thing. Plus if McCain wins, that growing anti-US sentiment from the left could get ugly. I'd rather we avoid that. Basically I think Obama has a chance to steer the US into greener pastures.

Oh holy shit; that was good.

[JoeChalupa]

I'm voting for Obama because it is my right to vote for whom I want to and I don't need to explain jack shit to anyone. That and the fact that I don't want another 4 years of Bush policies that will continue under McCain. The future of this Country and my children means too much to me and if we all just look at the facts the decision is clear. The time is NOW. I don't give a rat's ass who hung out with who or where you worship or if you did a little hippie lettuce or snow when you were young. I look at who they are NOW and where they can lead us to.
That is why I am voting for Barack Obama.
I'm joechalupa and I've approved this post.

[TomBrady]

This could possibly be a very good thread :tu

I haven't 100% made up my mind but I'm about 95% leaning toward Obama. I'll wait until after the final two debates before solidifying my vote. Right now I'm leaning toward Obama, with second place being not to vote. McCain is third right now for me.

However, even though I'm going to vote for Obama in all likelihood, it's not because I agree with his stances. In fact, I think they are almost all faulty. His economic plan is a joke -- even his most ardent supporters typically won't argue otherwise. His stances regarding American business will make it harder for businesses to compete in the global market. His health care plan is impractical. I think giving an absolute timetable for a pullout is a tactical error. I disagree with most of his plans that call to make government even bigger. I disagree with his stances toward Cuba. I don't like how he doesn't all seem to put America first in all his policies. I can't believe he even semi supports No Child Left Behind. And most of all, I think his apparent strategy on how to go about keeping (and even bringing back) American jobs from getting outsourced is more dangerous than anything W has ever done domestically.

All that said, two things will allow me to get over all those disagreements. First of all, the power of the POTUS is highly overrated. He likely won't be able to bring everything he promises to reality (although there is more of a danger to that considering the state of all three branches). Secondly, most of his stances look more like election stances than practical stances. He's saying what he has to say to get elected. I think and hope that once he's elected, he won't try to follow through on all of his current promises. That is typically the case so hopefully Obama doesn't change course. Politicians lie and he will have the perfect excuse by pointing to the current financial crises for why he couldn't do everything he said he was going to do.

Why will I vote for him? First of all, I don't like McCain. I just don't like him. I think 95% of Senators are either slimeballs or become slimeballs by association. While Obama is a Senator as well, he hasn't been in the muck nearly as long as McCain has. McCain is also a sellout. I don't think it's admirable how he treated his first wife. He claims to be a maverick but it has been obvious that he's done everything in his political career the last 25 or so years with one eye on the White House. I think he's too old and basically I think he's a Democrat in Republican clothing. He's about as conservative as the Clintons. If he loses, my hope is that a true conservative candidate can arise down the line. It's not good for American to have two Democrats running for POTUS.

Second of all, I like Obama's leadership capabilities. He's a natural born leader who can inspire a crowd. America is still the greatest country in the world by far but it needs some encouragement to get going once again. It feels like the country is in a lull and I think Obama has a chance to get this machine rolling. He seems to have struck a chord with the dumber people in the country and those with a growing anti-US sentiment. The amount of dumb people in this country is overwhelming so having a shepherd at the helm is not a bad thing. Plus if McCain wins, that growing anti-US sentiment from the left could get ugly. I'd rather we avoid that. Basically I think Obama has a chance to steer the US into greener pastures.

That's about the end of my thought process in what goes into picking who to vote for. Obama's race is so very inconsequential to me. He was born in Hawaii, partly grew up in Indonesia and was mostly raised by white grandparents. I find it laughable that he's considered a pure black candidate because his white mother was inseminated by a man with a high amount of melanin in his skin. I don't consider him black; I consider him American. This is 2008, we should be above caring about skin pigment - especially when the person in question is a 50/50 mix. He's as much a white candidate as he is a black candidate, if not more . . . but that's probably a topic for another thread.

Oh and for the record, I don't think Obama becoming president is going to help race relations. If anything, I think it could hurt it. A large percentage of white people have been okay with double standards because they view themselves as being more privileged simply based on skin color. But with a "black man" as the POTUS, it's going to be more difficult to convince those same white people that other races need advantages to gain equality. Voting Obama to see an end to racism is relying on hugely flawed logic.

Bottomline is I don't love Obama as a candidate, in many respects I don't even like him as a candidate, but I view him as the best option. It's a dangerous vote due to how much I disagree with him but I'm hoping it ends up being the right vote.

Besides, how can a Spurs fan vote for a guy who happily claims to be a Maverick and is also a Suns season ticket holder?

:drunk

There is so much wrong in your post, but I will address one thing you mentioned about race relations not improving and possibly degrading.

One of the reasons racism exists today is because of fear. Fear of the unknown. Too many people buy into stereotypes without finding out for themselves, this is especially true amongst xenophobic conservatives who seem to rally against everything that is "different". The only way to show these people that their views are incorrect is by example.

Segregation does not exist today in schools because the government forced integration down the throats of racist white Southerners. It was the only way to get social progress moving in this country.

[ElNono]

There is so much wrong in your post, but I will address one thing you mentioned about race relations not improving and possibly degrading.

One of the reasons racism exists today is because of fear. Fear of the unknown. Too many people buy into stereotypes without finding out for themselves, this is especially true amongst xenophobic conservatives who seem to rally against everything that is "different". The only way to show these people that their views are incorrect is by example.

Segregation does not exist today in schools because the government forced integration down the throats of racist white Southerners. It was the only way to get social progress moving in this country.

At the top of the thread:
Leave all partisan politics and arguments in the other threads. Let people simply post why they are supporting who they are supporting. Do not challenge their views, and let it be.

[101A]

this is especially true amongst xenophobic conservatives who seem to rally against everything that is "different".

irony

[timvp]

There is so much wrong in your post, but I will address one thing you mentioned about race relations not improving and possibly degrading.

One of the reasons racism exists today is because of fear. Fear of the unknown. Too many people buy into stereotypes without finding out for themselves, this is especially true amongst xenophobic conservatives who seem to rally against everything that is "different". The only way to show these people that their views are incorrect is by example.

Segregation does not exist today in schools because the government forced integration down the throats of racist white Southerners. It was the only way to get social progress moving in this country.How the hell does this gobbledygook have anything to do with anything in my post? :lol

BTW, go back to one of your other screen names. They have been "fixed".

[whottt]

I've already said why I am voting the way I am voting in other threads...to this one I'll just add...

I'm not voting for Obama because:

Other countries like Obama the way Americans liked Gorbachev.
Electing a President based on his appeal to other countries is like losing to the Lakers so Laker Fans will like us.
America is the last remaining Superpower, and since we are no longer needed to stave off the Soviet Uniion, neither the EU nor Latin America or nor the Middle East, or China, likes it.

[Shastafarian]

I've already said why I am voting the way I am voting in other threads...to this one I'll just add...

I'm not voting for Obama because:

Other countries like Obama the way Americans liked Gorbachev.
Electing a President based on his appeal to other countries is like losing to the Lakers so Laker Fans will like us.
America is the last remaining Superpower, and since we are no longer needed to stave off the Soviet Uniion, neither the EU nor Latin America or nor the Middle East, or China, likes it.

So you're NOT voting for him because of what others think? Doesn't that kinda undermine your whole point?

[MannyIsGod]

God damn so many of you can't help yourselves can you? Practice some self control in this thread. You don't have to hit the quote button if you disagree with something you read. You can let it go for just this ONE thread.

[ElNono]

So you're NOT voting for him because of what others think? Doesn't that kinda undermine your whole point?

At the top of the thread:
Leave all partisan politics and arguments in the other threads. Let people simply post why they are supporting who they are supporting. Do not challenge their views, and let it be.

[benefactor]

I'm not voting for one simple reason...I have no voice. Thanks to the electoral college the state of Texas is automatically given to the Republicans, so if you vote for anyone else you vote doesn't really count or make a difference in anything.

[Shastafarian]

At the top of the thread:
Leave all partisan politics and arguments in the other threads. Let people simply post why they are supporting who they are supporting. Do not challenge their views, and let it be.

Sorry my whottt-o-meter went off and I missed the beginning of the thread.

[Findog]

I'm not voting for one simple reason...I have no voice. Thanks to the electoral college the state of Texas is automatically given to the Republicans, so if you vote for anyone else you vote doesn't really count or make a difference in anything.

That's a shitty attitude. You can help 3rd parties try to reach the 5% threshold. You can do your part to help turn Texas purple. McCain's lead in Texas is down to single digits. Obama won't win the state but there will come a time when Texas isn't so red.

[benefactor]

That's a shitty attitude. You can help 3rd parties try to reach the 5% threshold. You can do your part to help turn Texas purple. McCain's lead in Texas is down to single digits. Obama won't win the state but there will come a time when Texas isn't so red.
Out of your whole post this is the only sentence that matters. Texas is still red...period. Honestly, I think you are living a pipe dream if you ever think it will change. Just my .02.

[baseline bum]

Out of your whole post this is the only sentence that matters. Texas is still red...period. Honestly, I think you are living a pipe dream if you ever think it will change. Just my .02.

Why is it set in stone? Texas was always blue until about 30 years ago.

[timvp]

Out of your whole post this is the only sentence that matters. Texas is still red...period. Honestly, I think you are living a pipe dream if you ever think it will change. Just my .02.Texas will flip to blue again at some point in our lifetime. It wasn't that long ago (1974 and 1968) that Texas was blue.

[Bartleby]

Two words: Hispanic population

[benefactor]

Texas will flip to blue again at some point in our lifetime. It wasn't that long ago (1974 and 1968) that Texas was blue.
Actually I would rather it not be one or the other. As an independent, I want to be able to look at both candidates and weigh them out...then go and vote knowing my voice will be heard. Right now that is not possible...and there is only a handful of states where it actually is.

It's just not right, and I refuse to be a part of a system that alienates large numbers of voters in all but a few states.

[CuckingFunt]

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8642/flanderswithparentstq5.jpg

"I've tried nothin', and I'm all out of ideas."

[whottt]

Actually I would rather it not be one or the other. As an independent, I want to be able to look at both candidates and weigh them out...then go and vote knowing my voice will be heard. Right now that is not possible...and there is only a handful of states where it actually is.

It's just not right, and I refuse to be a part of a system that alienates large numbers of voters in all but a few states.


Would you care to provide me a list of all these fantastic 3 party nations?


You think it's partisan now....you just wait till there are 3 strong parties and one of the bookends wins an election.

[lurker23]

I'm voting for Obama because the two most important issues to me in this election are energy and the environment. Investment into alternative energy is THE domestic issue of this generation, because it's something huge that we can pass on to generations to come. Investment into science is almost never a bad idea, and unlike the lay-person argument against some sciences, energy is something that impacts everyone.

I'll admit that John McCain is one of the most environmentally friendly and alternative energy friendly Republicans in a long time, at least in the things he claims to support. However, I can't help but feel that his support is only skin deep. In the long run, he's also very oil-friendly, and would push for increased drilling. In the end, I think Palin would sell him on drilling in ANWR. Obama, on the other hand, has proposed $150 billion over 10 years to invest in and research alternative energy sources. While I suspect that number will be trimmed a bit due to the current economic crisis, there's still no doubt in my mind that he'll push for large sums of money being thrown at this problem, which is absolutely what we need.

As for the rest of the issues, Obama comes out on top on a majority of them for me, though there are quite a few that I lean more to the right on. I agree with a previous poster that my decision would have been harder if we were talking about the McCain of 2000, but sadly that is not the case.

As a side note, I absolutely agree with the people who have said that the Electoral College needs to be abolished, and I've been saying that for years. When I place my vote for Obama in Utah, the only thing that will do is add one to the popular vote count.

[whottt]

God damn so many of you can't help yourselves can you? Practice some self control in this thread. You don't have to hit the quote button if you disagree with something you read. You can let it go for just this ONE thread.


He doesn't bother me at all except when he makes consecutive posts along with ElNono.

[benefactor]

Would you care to provide me a list of all these fantastic 3 party nations?


You think it's partisan now....you just wait till there are 3 strong parties and one of the bookends wins an election.
Not sure what you are looking for here. I never said I wanted a third party...I just would like to be able to vote and have it count on national scale in a national election.

[ElNono]

Would you care to provide me a list of all these fantastic 3 party nations?
You think it's partisan now....you just wait till there are 3 strong parties and one of the bookends wins an election.


He doesn't bother me at all except when he makes consecutive posts along with ElNono.

At the top of the thread:
Leave all partisan politics and arguments in the other threads. Let people simply post why they are supporting who they are supporting. Do not challenge their views, and let it be.

Not very bright, are we?

[td4mvp21]

Out of your whole post this is the only sentence that matters. Texas is still red...period. Honestly, I think you are living a pipe dream if you ever think it will change. Just my .02.

Actually he isn't. There will be a good chance it will be blue in the future, considering that minorities are going to become majorities in the state and are prone to voting Democrat rather than Republican. Probably won't be for 20 years or so but it will change. You realize it was strictly Democrat at the state level until the 1990s, right?

[TomBrady]

Is TX the last major metropolitan state to be so solidly Republican?

[smeagol]

According to this informal ST poll, Obama should win by a landslide . . .

[ploto]

Even the more conservative estimates I have seen project Texas with the highest % of population ethnicity as Hispanic by 2040-- still not at 50%, but already the largest ethnic group- maybe at about 45%. Other estimates have the Hispanic population at 50% by 2030 or 2040.

[SnakeBoy]

Actually he isn't. There will be a good chance it will be blue in the future, considering that minorities are going to become majorities in the state and are prone to voting Democrat rather than Republican. Probably won't be for 20 years or so but it will change. You realize it was strictly Democrat at the state level until the 1990s, right?

Depends on what happens to the D party. I don't think Texas will ever turn blue if the Pelosi/Reid/Obama progressives continue to rule the party. If clintonites or blue dogs take control then I think you could see Texas turn blue (if R's don't get their shit together that is).

[ChumpDumper]

Depends on whether blacks can ever work in Mexican restaurants in Austin and break through the tortilla ceiling.

[SpursFanFirst]

The longer this election season drags on, the more I'm starting to think I may not vote - Not because I think voting doesn't matter, but rather I'm starting to realize I can't really get behind either candidate.

I definitely can't get behind Obama, but now I'm starting to waver on McCain as well.

I know there have been a couple of people here who have said they may not vote. Is there anyone here who was sure they'd vote for one candidate, but now they may not vote at all?

[BRHornet45]

I'm not voting for anyone. I choose to not vote because it doesn't matter. The real voices of the people never play a huge part in how things are done to begin with. I don't care how many people line up to rant on and on about how they'll do things because its rarely them that gets its accomplished.

We live in a world where the publics needs and opinions are rarely taken into consideration to begin with. Sure they address our needs but its never cut and dry and its never something that can be accomplished unless its feeding the hands that grab for anything orbiting around it. Large fundamental things never get accomplished unless it supports a few with the power and ability to leverage it. No matter how much we stand up and no matter how many people speak out about it this country will never get what we truely need from our government because its too damn big. There are too many hands crippling the ability for the common man to make a difference.

I'll vote when the day comes where each and every important decision can be made on its own two feet. I'll vote when a bill can be voted on for its own merit and not a bunch of garbage attaching itself to gain a wider audience. How can we expect to ever break thru if every single defining moment has to have other lesser important issues attached. I'll vote when the size of the government shrinks down to a level where smaller groups or singular people can be easily isolated when something has to be accounted for. I'll vote when they establish a system that designed to work for the working people rather than be exploited.

I'll probably never vote.

SON YOU REALLY TOOK IT BACKTOBASICS

[SpursWoman]

I know there have been a couple of people here who have said they may not vote. Is there anyone here who was sure they'd vote for one candidate, but now they may not vote at all?


Me.

[angel_luv]

I am going to vote for the two candidates that I feel will show the most honor to God and will honor those matters which I prioritize as a Christian.

I won't make my final decision until I step into the voting booth because I am taking into account all information, as it is being made available.

However, were I called upon to vote this second, I would choose Senator McCain and Govenor Palin.

[angel_luv]

The longer this election season drags on, the more I'm starting to think I may not vote - Not because I think voting doesn't matter, but rather I'm starting to realize I can't really get behind either candidate.

I definitely can't get behind Obama, but now I'm starting to waver on McCain as well.

I know there have been a couple of people here who have said they may not vote. Is there anyone here who was sure they'd vote for one candidate, but now they may not vote at all?


I didn't vote in the 2000 election because I could not stand either candidate.

I didn't like Bush when I voted for him in 2004- only voted for him because of his stance concerning abortion.

It has always been my philosophy that I would not vote for someone I did not like.

But my pastors have been encouraging our church members that it is best to vote for whomever we feel best supports our core beliefs rather than leave the results up to everyone else.

It has taken awhile, but I have come to agree with that conclusion.

Having said that, I wish I could say there was a candidate that I really wanted to see elected.

[samikeyp]

This is going to sound simplistic but I am going to vote for Obama because I feel he is the best candidate for the Office. This is a personal choice and not a suggested course of action for anyone. I am not going to try to convince you to vote the way I do so don't be so insulting as to attempt to try to convince me to vote your way.

On the subject of voting...I personally believe everyone should vote because too many people fought and died for us to have that right. However, recently I have come to believe that those same people fought and died for us to have the right not to use their vote if they don't feel the choices are worthy of said vote.

[benefactor]

angel_luv...There is an interesting article in Relevant Magazine regarding Christians and voting. I found it really hit home with me as it reflects a lot about how I have been feeling as a Christian towards our leaders. Heres the link...

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/life_article.php?id=7616

[JoeChalupa]

I've voted for candidates that I don't "like" but they were who I though would do the better job. But in this case I like Obama and Biden and what little change McCain had to turn my vote....Sarah has blown it.

[samikeyp]

Plus, as a Spurs fan, I cannot support anything "Maverick" :lol

[angel_luv]

angel_luv...There is an interesting article in Relevant Magazine regarding Christians and voting. I found it really hit home with me as it reflects a lot about how I have been feeling as a Christian towards our leaders. Heres the link...

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/life_article.php?id=7616

Thanks! I'll read it. :)

[Findog]

I didn't like Bush when I voted for him in 2004- only voted for him because of his stance concerning abortion.



Do you support comprehensive sex-ed or abstinence-only sex-ed?

Do you support programs like Head Start?

[SpursFanFirst]

This is going to sound simplistic but I am going to vote for Obama because I feel he is the best candidate for the Office. This is a personal choice and not a suggested course of action for anyone. I am not going to try to convince you to vote the way I do so don't be so insulting as to attempt to try to convince me to vote your way.

On the subject of voting...I personally believe everyone should vote because too many people fought and died for us to have that right. However, recently I have come to believe that those same people fought and died for us to have the right not to use their vote if they don't feel the choices are worthy of said vote.

This is where my confusion comes in...

My family has a LONG history of military service, so I've always felt compelled to vote no matter what.
But my own father, who served 20 years, said in the beginning that, if McCain was picked to represent the Rep. party, he would not vote.
He has since changed his mind, but now I'm there.

It's not that I dislike McCain. I have a lot of respect for him and all that he's been through and accomplished. But I feel like I'd be voting more against Obama than for McCain.

Either way, they're politicians, and I don't think I truly trust either side.

As my grandpa says, "They're all a bunch of crooks!" :lol

[Shastafarian]

Do you support comprehensive sex-ed or abstinence-only sex-ed?

Do you support programs like Head Start?

I also find myself asking if they support capital punishment. If they do, they either don't care about the severe inadequacies of the judicial system in convicting the actual perpetrator of the crime or they really don't know about it and choose to focus on abortion instead. It's really interesting to see people's responses.

[BacktoBasics]

I am going to vote for the two candidates that I feel will show the most honor to God and will honor those matters which I prioritize as a Christian.

I won't make my final decision until I step into the voting booth because I am taking into account all information, as it is being made available.

However, were I called upon to vote this second, I would choose Senator McCain and Govenor Palin.So you believe that dinosaurs and humans roamed the earth together a mere 5000 years ago?

[Findog]

I also find myself asking if they support capital punishment. If they do, they either don't care about the severe inadequacies of the judicial system in convicting the actual perpetrator of the crime or they really don't know about it and choose to focus on abortion instead. It's really interesting to see people's responses.

I can respect a pro-life point of view if it is accompanied by opposition to the death penalty and support for policies that would actually result in fewer unplanned pregnancies. I'll give pro-life supporters somewhat of a pass on support for the Iraq War because some may misguidedly believe it was a necessary conflict.

[angel_luv]

Thanks! I'll read it. :)

Lengthy but excellent article. These were my favorite parts:
http://www.relevantmagazine.com/life_article.php?id=7616

Campolo agrees. “My contention is that if anybody asks if you’re a Democrat or a Republican, the answer should be, ‘Please name the issue,’” he says. “On certain issues, I’m going to come across as someone who likes what the Republicans say, and on other issues I will come across as saying what the Democrats say.”


In fact, Campolo became so disenchanted with the politicization of evangelical Christianity that he and a group of Christian authors and thinkers have chosen all themselves Red Letter Christians, a reference to the words of Christ being printed in red in some Bibles. Campolo hopes to break the stereotype that one political party has a monopoly on Christianity.



For us, the litmus test for whether we’re a Christian nation is, does it look like Jesus?



Haw adds that the idea of nationalism is often theologically unsound. He says that being “born again” should mean, from a theological standpoint, that Christians have a new and different citizenship. “Theologically, born again didn’t just mean that you have a spiritual attitude to your life. It literally meant that you’re joining into this people of Abraham that are a holy nation, set apart. There seems to be evidence all over the Bible that this is a very concrete people. You’re latching yourself onto this other nation. Now when you use the word we or our, your identity is connected to a different group of people, a diasporic people. That’s not just linguistic gymnastics. It’s biblical realism. Without that, our nationalism is misguided.”


Claiborne says that this was a concept understood well by the early Church. In a time when allegiance to Rome was not only expected, but required, early Christians maintained a peculiarity and attitude set apart from the empire in which they lived. “The early Christians said a Christian could only be emperor if he decided not to be a Christian,” Claiborne says. “There was a deep collision of identities between your citizenship on earth and your citizenship in heaven.”


Thus, say Claiborne and Haw, Christians should belong to a citizenship that is transnational. “What does it mean to be born again?” Claiborne asks. “For Christians, there’s got to be a sense that there’s something that runs deeper than what’s born of the flesh—my biology, my ethnicity, my nation-state. Our central identity is in this reborn people of God that’s transnational.”

In this context, patriotism can seem like a vice. However, Claiborne and Haw believe it’s all about keeping an appropriate perspective. “A love for our own people is not a bad thing, but it’s a love that doesn’t stop at the border,” Claiborne says.


Claiborne believes Christians can celebrate the good in America without falling prey to the idea that the United States, rather than Christ, is the hope of the world. “We want to celebrate the things that America and leaders of this country do well and right,” he says. “There’s plenty of them, but there’s also plenty of things historically and currently that don’t look like Jesus. That’s why it’s so important to differentiate them. Our hope and what we’re called to is to remind the world of Jesus, to be like Jesus, to take the words of Jesus seriously. We will applaud people when they do that, and we will interrupt and prophesy when they don’t.”


With this in mind, how can we chart a new course? How can we see society transformed when we have to be wary of involvement in the system? Claiborne and Haw believe that the importance lies in keeping our perspective. “There are a lot of models in Scripture,” Claiborne says. “There are prophets who are on the margins. There are prophets in the royal court. There are people who are engaged in a lot of different ways. One of the tricky things is to maintain the peculiarity and the distinctiveness of being a Christian.”


“For those of us working legislatively, we can’t compromise on things like, ‘We’re going to beat our swords into plowshares,’” he says. “That’s what we’re called to, and to bless the poor and meek. If we don’t hear any of these parties saying something that embodies that, then we don’t put our hand in with it. There are a number of ways you can call that. You can work for the Kingdom of God and align yourself with whatever seems to move us closer to that. It’s possible to say we’re also going to interrupt with grace and humility whatever seems to be standing in the way of the reign of God. One way of looking at voting is that it’s damage control. We’re in a sense voting against whatever is going to do the worst damage.”


Part of the beauty of it is saying, ‘We’re going to trust that the Spirit is at work in different people’s hearts in different ways.’ Ultimately, [we hope] whatever they do is seeking first the Kingdom of God and embodying their politics with their lives rather than just trusting in a single candidate or a single politician to change the world for them.”



Haw adds that action on the part of Christians far eclipses their party affiliation. “What is more important than how we vote on Nov. 4 is how we live on Nov. 3 and Nov. 5,” he says.



So, how should Christians engage the political arena? That is the question. If Claiborne and Haw are any indication, the choice is up to the individual. No matter what that individual decides, though, they must realize that true change will never happen through legislation alone. And, no matter what the individual chooses to do, they must realize that they are already voting through the way they choose to live.

“We vote every day with our lives,” Claiborne says. “We vote every day with our feet, our hands, our lips and our wallets. We vote for the poor. We vote for the peacemakers. We vote for the marginalized, the oppressed, the most vulnerable of our society. Ultimate change does not just happen one day every four years.”

[SpursFanFirst]

I also find myself asking if they support capital punishment. If they do, they either don't care about the severe inadequacies of the judicial system in convicting the actual perpetrator of the crime or they really don't know about it and choose to focus on abortion instead. It's really interesting to see people's responses.

Personally, I'm pro-life, but I also don't feel it's the government's place to tell women what we can and can't do with our bodies.
I know this doesn't exactly fit with many other Christians' views, but I have a problem with government having too much say in our personal lives. Abortion is one of those ways.

As far as the death penalty goes...
I think it's human nature to want to see some vile human being suffer for their heinous crimes...an eye for an eye mentality.
BUT...once I get past that initial reaction, I don't think I could ever sentence someone to death, regardless of their crimes.
As a Christian, I just don't think it's my place to decide when and how someone's life ends.

[Shastafarian]

Personally, I'm pro-life, but I also don't feel it's the government's place to tell women what we can and can't do with our bodies.
I know this doesn't exactly fit with many other Christians' views, but I have a problem with government having too much say in our personal lives. Abortion is one of those ways.

As far as the death penalty goes...
I think it's human nature to want to see some vile human being suffer for their heinous crimes...an eye for an eye mentality.
BUT...once I get past that initial reaction, I don't think I could ever sentence someone to death, regardless of their crimes.
As a Christian, I just don't think it's my place to decide when and how someone's life ends.

Fair take. Do you have any opinions on the current system?

[TomBrady]

My question for those who supported Bush because of his abortion stance.

What did he do to stop abortions? They are still legal. Roe v. Wade is nowhere close to ever being overturned. Abstinence only education has outright failed. In short nothing has really changed.

There is so much more to your vote than just abortion. Don't be so close minded.

[Findog]

My question for those who supported Bush because of his abortion stance.

What did he do to stop abortions? They are still legal. Roe v. Wade is nowhere close to ever being overturned. Abstinence only education has outright failed. In short nothing has really changed.

There is so much more to your vote than just abortion. Don't be so close minded.

People on both sides of that issue that make it their top priority don't seem to realize that the status quo is what both parties want.

[samikeyp]

This is where my confusion comes in...

My family has a LONG history of military service, so I've always felt compelled to vote no matter what.
But my own father, who served 20 years, said in the beginning that, if McCain was picked to represent the Rep. party, he would not vote.
He has since changed his mind, but now I'm there.

It's not that I dislike McCain. I have a lot of respect for him and all that he's been through and accomplished. But I feel like I'd be voting more against Obama than for McCain.

Either way, they're politicians, and I don't think I truly trust either side.

As my grandpa says, "They're all a bunch of crooks!" :lol

Grandpa is wise! :lol :toast

[SpursFanFirst]

Fair take. Do you have any opinions on the current system?

I wish the death penalty was abolished, but I highly doubt that will ever happen.

It is very likely there have been many innocent people found guilty and put to death...and some who have been found guilty but exonerated before it was too late.

[Thunder Dan]

Obama because Sarah Palin is a dipshit

[Nbadan]

Obama for soooo many reasons, but mostly because of his initial opposition to the illegal Iraq war....but also to help bring America back from the abyss the Bush administration has put us in fiscally and morally....

[Shastafarian]

I wish the death penalty was abolished, but I highly doubt that will ever happen.

It is very likely there have been many innocent people found guilty and put to death...and some who have been found guilty but exonerated before it was too late.

That's admirable. Do you think it's a greater tragedy when a guilty man goes free or when an innocent man is punished?

[CuckingFunt]

Haven't gotten around to responding in here, yet.

My biggest issues in this election (and, for the most part, in general) are gay rights, reproductive justice, the economy, the Iraq ugliness, and the environment. Not in that order. In all five of those areas, Obama's policies are more in line with my own beliefs, so I'm going with Obama.

Furthermore, I LIKE that he's well spoken, polished, and well educated. I tend to think that "elitist" is more a positive than a negative, especially when it comes to giving someone the job of running my country. And especially after eight years of having the village idiot in control.

I did not, however, wholly support Obama before he earned the nomination, as I have concerns about his lack of experience. I've always liked him, and I've always been pretty sure that I would be voting a Democratic ticket in this election, but he wasn't my favorite swimmer in the pool a year ago. In short, I will be voting for Obama, but I do not think he is the Messiah.

[MannyIsGod]

Bump for DR

[ElNono]

I wanted to be fair to both candidates for this election. Its the first time in my short life that I would feel very comfortable with either candidate as President. I mean that sincerely.

So there had to be some mitigating circumstance to delineate the two.

McCain: Unfortunately for McCain, imo, he is an older man with health issues directly and indirectly (melanoma) related to his service to this country. While commendable and highly honorable, his VP pick was of the highest importance to me (an tbh, I would hope its important to everyone else as well) in respect to those health concerns. I voted for McCain in the 2000 primaries, so when he picked Palin, I was a little heartbroken. At first Palin was an absolute disaster as a VP pick. It reeked of political pandering, not a shoring of his deficiencies. Weeks later, it looks ever-so-slightly better....when I say slightly, I mean very slight. So what is slightly better than a total fucking disaster? A train wreck?

Obama: Obama was an unknown quantity. My initial impressions of him were probably the same that everyone else had. Smart, eloquent and a total rookie. But there is a part of me that has always wondered what a non-partisan, non-politician would do in the Oval Office. Obama is the closest thing to that notion in my voting lifetime (Perot being the other in my lifetime). Obviously, with his inexperience, his VP pick was important (but, imo, less so than McCain's). He picked a guy to shore up his weakest attribute by selecting a long-standing member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Thats a damn good pick.

So with an obvious bias towards Obama to start this internal-reasoning process, I moved on to the issues that are important to me.

Domestic Policy: Both candidates are going to bankrupt our nation. In no time have I ever seen two candidates from opposing parties so closely aligned with the ruin of our nation. Makes me think conspiracy, but anyway... There just isnt much difference between the two in their approach to this economic downturn. Sadly, neither share my view of the situation, but thats to be expected really. I am of the mind the entire system of government needs to be torn to shreds and rewritten, so its no surprise to me that a candidate from one the major parties does not share that sentiment.

IMO, education is the single most important issue of all time, no matter the generation. It has never been treated that way (on purpose, imo) but it should. So Obama's plan to give a $4k credit to students for tuition in exchange for X amount of hours of community service is downright excellent.

Its like a double dip of awesome in that you have young people attending college and youre forcing them to get involved in their community. When I heard that, I'll admit, I was swayed. It got me to thinking what welfare recipients should be forced to do and any other recipient of government assistance should be forced to do. To me, its this sort of thinking that needs to be re-instilled into Americans.

Abortion I could care less about, one way or the other. If its overturned, oh well. If not, who cares? I am personally of the mind that it should be a woman's right to choose (no late term though), especially in cases of rape and incest or the mother's health is at risk. But this entire issue I see as just a distraction (a wedge issue) to pander to the religious, self-appointed moral supervisors of our time who in turn pander to their chosen "Man of the Sky".

Taxation... yeah....see the first part of Domestic Policy. Ruinous on both sides. One favors the middle class and poor, one favors the status quo. Its class warfare with no discernible winner. I mean that only in today's relevant environment. In time, a shared responsibility (Fair Tax) could be beneficial, but its just not realistic at this point with an ever-rising national debt. Also, a Fair Tax would force Congress to do its fucking job (you know, balance the fucking budget) which is just entirely too much to ask. They were tasked by the Constitution "To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures", but they found that entirely too hard and gave that responsibility away as soon as they hit the first big hurdle. Cant have that sort of problem hanging around your neck in an election year, might as well privatize our monetary system (John Adams would be absolutely rolling in his grave if he were alive today).

Foreign Policy: Iraq needs to end. Shouldnt have been there in the first place, but we are. No use going back and forth on whose fault it is, better to just come up with a solution. The sooner the better but not at the expense of an unstable government in Iraq. Obviously I lean toward Obama on this issue.

I am of the mind that diplomatic relations with any and all countries is important. No matter our status with them. Keep channels open...wtf is so bad about that? Our meeting with them legitimizes their positions? Are you kidding? They dont need verification from the US to "legitimize" their position. They hold said position because they can, whether by force or cult of personality.

I dont hear any politicians complaining about meeting with China. They are not a democracy, they are not an open society even. But we dont mind because they loan us money and their consumer market is about to eclipse the US in its best days. Why do you think our government is so complicit with them? Because theyre going to pass us economically, thats inevitable, our lobbyist-controlled government knows where their bread is buttered and it isnt by we citizens. The Corporations of this country see an emerging market like never before seen in the history of the world, not even America's emergence. They have 9 million new drivers per year who buy new cars (not including existing drivers) just to name one area of intense interest. Its the same reason Japan is playing nice as well. They know where theyll be sending their electronic gadgets in 10-15 years, better to hold palaver now.

But thats ok, I guess. Whatever...no politician in my lifetime sees the world the way I do personally (maybe Ron Paul, but thats iffy at best). So I have to stick to the major affairs and judge accordingly.

The War on Terror is complete bullshit. Its the "War on Drugs" or the "War on Crime" or the "War on <insert vague noun here>" of our time and just as effective. There is no war with terrorists. If it were, it wouldnt make them terrorists now would it? No, theyd be an army if we could actually go to "war" with them.

Theyre an irregular opponent masked under extreme religious convictions and covered by the societies they dwell in. There is no winning with them, only more death. The best you can do with terrorism is what we did in Afghanistan. Ally with the government, drive them out of the country.

Because then you see where they run. Seeing a cockroach and killing it is one thing. Finding out where they live and breed is another, more important piece of info. At least we know who are not our allies and treat them accordingly. That means no aid whatsoever to them or their proxies.

Anyway, I am digressing here. Neither candidate thinks the same way as me, so its more or less a wash. What it came down to was America's perception abroad. Bush took 100+ years of excellent foreign relations and flushed them down the toilet in less than 6 years. We are a fucking shadow of our former selves (in foreign clout, I mean) thanks to that fucking born-again idiot.

Its my opinion that either candidate would do wonders to repair that reputation. Hell, I would do wonders in contrast to Bush. But seriously, McCain or Obama would at least show the world that not all Americans are spineless, redneck cowboy retards afraid of their own shadow because you got your lipped bloodied in a skirmish 7 years ago. Show them, and more importantly other Americans, that we are not cowards and that terrorists or any other unconventional threats will not rule our entire existence in any way, shape or form.

Foreign policy I lean with neither candidate. Both are significant upgrades over our current POTUS. Total wash in my opinion, the differences just arent that striking to me, and neither actually share my worldview...so fuck it.

------

All in all, I am going to vote for Obama. Mainly on the health of McCain and his deplorable VP pick. Its an insult to Americans in general, imo, that in a country that really only allows you a choice of two, that one of them would pick an absolutely divisive character who actively encourages other Americans to see the other candidate as an associate of terrorists, that there are parts of America that are universally un-American and that foreign policy experience is gained simply by your proximity to a foreign land. Because if thats the case, you Texans are experts on Mexico and I'm an expert on Canada.

Again, her as a VP wouldnt be a deal-breaker if McCain was (shit, I dont know) 60 years old instead of 72 (when inaugurated). But he is 72, he has health problems, he is a former POW with lingering handicaps from that terrible ordeal and frankly, that dumb, pandering, divisive bitch scares the living shit out of me if she were actually POTUS.

Quite literally, scares the shit out of me.

Then again, since I am for the dissolution of our government in its current form, maybe the better pick would be McCain in the hopes that he does die in office so that broad can be promoted. Then she would have to confirm my previous suspicion of being dangerous and start suspending rights, starting wars and generally running amok because her campaign is guided only by "God", not that silly, old-boy network in Washington they call "Congress" while making moral platitudes about where and when the "inalienable rights" granted to all human beings thats written into the Constitution should be applied in times of war. And since we have a vague, ever changing "War on Terror" with no clear battlefield or discernible opponent, we will always be (technically) at war and therefore the powers of POTUS are nearly limitless.

Hmm...come to think of it...

But seriously, my one reservation about Obama has nothing to do with Obama himself. It has everything to do with giving over Congress and the White House to Democrats. Make no mistake, they will fuck up just as bad in the next 4 years as the Republicans did with the first 6 of Bush's reign.

So once again I find myself, as we all do every time this year (if you have one non-partisan bone in your body that is) with a choice of a "lesser of two evils".

*sigh*

I hate this government with the very fabric of my being for this kind of subversive, obviously tainted election bullshit. Red hot fury of a thousand suns. We are being conned by a very few, powerful individuals into thinking there is actually a difference between these two situations/candidates.

I guess we can continue this here... quoted is DR's post

[2centsworth]

McCain is clueless when it comes to the economy and isn't articulate enough to persuade the democrats to draft any meaningful reform. Palin is too much of an unknown for me. She's charismatic and seems to have potential, but she needs way more time to hone her skill.

Obama is as far left as I have ever seen in national politics. His spread the wealth comment scares me. What's scarier is that we will see censorship against the right in the form of the fairness doctrine. Obama takes our country in a very dangerous direction. Biden is a clown and will be told to take a 4 year vacation.

These are the two most imperfect choices I have ever been given.

The best thing for this country is for the republicans to regroup and bring some strong principled talent to the table next time. The real change this country needs is within the Republican Party IMO, but the GOP is too far off course to make a difference now.

So I'm torn, do I vote for the better of two candidates or do I vote for the better of two projected outcomes?

I'm going to vote for ________? I still haven't decided, but I'm leaning Bob Barr.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Obama.

McCain/Palin scare me. Seriously.

[2centsworth]

Obama.

McCain/Palin scare me. Seriously.

why do they scare you?

[timvp]

This could possibly be a very good thread :tu

I haven't 100% made up my mind but I'm about 95% leaning toward Obama. I'll wait until after the final two debates before solidifying my vote. Right now I'm leaning toward Obama, with second place being not to vote. McCain is third right now for me.

However, even though I'm going to vote for Obama in all likelihood, it's not because I agree with his stances. In fact, I think they are almost all faulty. His economic plan is a joke -- even his most ardent supporters typically won't argue otherwise. His stances regarding American business will make it harder for businesses to compete in the global market. His health care plan is impractical. I think giving an absolute timetable for a pullout is a tactical error. I disagree with most of his plans that call to make government even bigger. I disagree with his stances toward Cuba. I don't like how he doesn't all seem to put America first in all his policies. I can't believe he even semi supports No Child Left Behind. And most of all, I think his apparent strategy on how to go about keeping (and even bringing back) American jobs from getting outsourced is more dangerous than anything W has ever done domestically.

All that said, two things will allow me to get over all those disagreements. First of all, the power of the POTUS is highly overrated. He likely won't be able to bring everything he promises to reality (although there is more of a danger to that considering the state of all three branches). Secondly, most of his stances look more like election stances than practical stances. He's saying what he has to say to get elected. I think and hope that once he's elected, he won't try to follow through on all of his current promises. That is typically the case so hopefully Obama doesn't change course. Politicians lie and he will have the perfect excuse by pointing to the current financial crises for why he couldn't do everything he said he was going to do.

Why will I vote for him? First of all, I don't like McCain. I just don't like him. I think 95% of Senators are either slimeballs or become slimeballs by association. While Obama is a Senator as well, he hasn't been in the muck nearly as long as McCain has. McCain is also a sellout. I don't think it's admirable how he treated his first wife. He claims to be a maverick but it has been obvious that he's done everything in his political career the last 25 or so years with one eye on the White House. I think he's too old and basically I think he's a Democrat in Republican clothing. He's about as conservative as the Clintons. If he loses, my hope is that a true conservative candidate can arise down the line. It's not good for American to have two Democrats running for POTUS.

Second of all, I like Obama's leadership capabilities. He's a natural born leader who can inspire a crowd. America is still the greatest country in the world by far but it needs some encouragement to get going once again. It feels like the country is in a lull and I think Obama has a chance to get this machine rolling. He seems to have struck a chord with the dumber people in the country and those with a growing anti-US sentiment. The amount of dumb people in this country is overwhelming so having a shepherd at the helm is not a bad thing. Plus if McCain wins, that growing anti-US sentiment from the left could get ugly. I'd rather we avoid that. Basically I think Obama has a chance to steer the US into greener pastures.

That's about the end of my thought process in what goes into picking who to vote for. Obama's race is so very inconsequential to me. He was born in Hawaii, partly grew up in Indonesia and was mostly raised by white grandparents. I find it laughable that he's considered a pure black candidate because his white mother was inseminated by a man with a high amount of melanin in his skin. I don't consider him black; I consider him American. This is 2008, we should be above caring about skin pigment - especially when the person in question is a 50/50 mix. He's as much a white candidate as he is a black candidate, if not more . . . but that's probably a topic for another thread.

Oh and for the record, I don't think Obama becoming president is going to help race relations. If anything, I think it could hurt it. A large percentage of white people have been okay with double standards because they view themselves as being more privileged simply based on skin color. But with a "black man" as the POTUS, it's going to be more difficult to convince those same white people that other races need advantages to gain equality. Voting Obama to see an end to racism is relying on hugely flawed logic.

Bottomline is I don't love Obama as a candidate, in many respects I don't even like him as a candidate, but I view him as the best option. It's a dangerous vote due to how much I disagree with him but I'm hoping it ends up being the right vote.

Besides, how can a Spurs fan vote for a guy who happily claims to be a Maverick and is also a Suns season ticket holder?

:drunkMy views have changed a little bit since this post about a month ago. As I head out to vote, the only lingering issue that bothers me about Obama is how he basically threw his family under the bus to win the election. While most of it is understandable politically, it tells me he doesn't have nearly the flawless character most Obama backers will claim.

[implacable44]

Haven't gotten around to responding in here, yet.

My biggest issues in this election (and, for the most part, in general) are gay rights, reproductive justice, the economy, the Iraq ugliness, and the environment. Not in that order. In all five of those areas, Obama's policies are more in line with my own beliefs, so I'm going with Obama.

Furthermore, I LIKE that he's well spoken, polished, and well educated. I tend to think that "elitist" is more a positive than a negative, especially when it comes to giving someone the job of running my country. And especially after eight years of having the village idiot in control.

I did not, however, wholly support Obama before he earned the nomination, as I have concerns about his lack of experience. I've always liked him, and I've always been pretty sure that I would be voting a Democratic ticket in this election, but he wasn't my favorite swimmer in the pool a year ago. In short, I will be voting for Obama, but I do not think he is the Messiah.

does that mean you don't want Obama's salvation all over your face?

[doobs]

I am voting for Obama because:
(1) He'll pay my mortgage and my electric bills
(2) He'll make rich people sad
(3) He'll make the rise of the oceans stop, and he'll heal the planet
(4) He'll bring world peace
(5) He'll feed the sick
(6) His mother was a virgin
(7) On the third day, he'll rise again

[implacable44]

My question for those who supported Bush because of his abortion stance.

What did he do to stop abortions? They are still legal. Roe v. Wade is nowhere close to ever being overturned. Abstinence only education has outright failed. In short nothing has really changed.

There is so much more to your vote than just abortion. Don't be so close minded.

The abortion issue is not a "done deal" as there are other issues on abortion and Supreme Court Justices are always a hot topic... PArtial birth abortions, stem cell , etc... there are many legal battles to be had and those justices will play the most vital role and so the President who will get to appoint them is relevant.

I will vote McCain because he is the lesser of two evils. McCain is no conservative - but he is no Marxist like the Messiah either. I believe in the Constitution and how this country was founded, established and how the founding fathers intended it to be. I am pro-life, right to bear arms and national security. I believe in small centralized government, lower taxes ( I think the IRS and the FED are a joke) and I believe that once you surrender rights or become dependant upon the goverment - you will not get that right or freedom back ( social security, welfare etc). I believe in the fundamental aspects of Capitalism without corruption.

[Soul_Patch]

I voted for Obama

I dont trust politics and/or politicians at all. I think Obama is the quenticential politician, therefore i dont trust him, but im hoping im wrong.

I just couldnt see voting for more of the same. Obama may be a huge mistake, and im sure we will all have ample time to determine that, but the government is a wreck right now, so it cant be any worse. It can only get better.


thats pretty much my reasoning. I too liked McCain in 2000, but that McCain is long gone.

[doobs]

but the government is a wreck right now, so it cant be any worse. It can only get better.

Think about that for a moment.

[BigZak]

i'm voting for bush again...:wakeup

[Dr. Gonzo]

I'm voted for Barack because I want to stick it to whitey.

That's the truth.

[Crookshanks]

Reading this thread is very scary. So many of you say you don't think Obama is really experienced enough and you don't agree with his economic policies, yet you're still voting for him because he speaks well and looks and sounds intelligent - oh, and you HOPE he isn't really being truthful about what his plans are for this country.

I just shake my head. How sad for our country that so many people believe and think this way. I have a feeling if Obama does win, that next year at this time there will be a LOT of buyer's remorse. People will be saying "what the hell have we done?" And then I'll laugh!

[doobs]

I voted for Barr.

I would have voted for McCain, but I don't like his choice of Palin. If McCain had made a boring and predictable VP choice, he would have made this election a straight referendum on Obama. But, no . . . he had to get creative and pick some half-wit with an annoying accent.

I think a straight referendum on Obama would have resulted in a McCain victory. Sure, Palin fired up the base, but Obama is frightening enough to get Republicans to vote, in my opinion.

[Gino]

Reading this thread is very scary. So many of you say you don't think Obama is really experienced enough and you don't agree with his economic policies, yet you're still voting for him because he speaks well and looks and sounds intelligent - oh, and you HOPE he isn't really being truthful about what his plans are for this country.

I just shake my head. How sad for our country that so many people believe and think this way. I have a feeling if Obama does win, that next year at this time there will be a LOT of buyer's remorse. People will be saying "what the hell have we done?" And then I'll laugh!

I completely agree with you. If you ask the average Obama supporter why theyre voting for him you'll get a mix of anti-Bush rhetoric and a need for "change".

Boy, he can implement any policy he wants under the vague claim of "change"! He can mandate employer based healthcare and higher business taxes, which will only lead to higher unemployment, but its okay because its change?

Can't wait to start paying my new union dues. Can't wait to start doing my mandatory community service. Can't wait for my 401k to drop since more people pull out of the stock market now that the capital gains tax is going up.

But hey, he gives a great speech!!!

[Bartleby]

Reading this thread is very scary. So many of you say you don't think Obama is really experienced enough and you don't agree with his economic policies, yet you're still voting for him because he speaks well and looks and sounds intelligent - oh, and you HOPE he isn't really being truthful about what his plans are for this country.

Bullshit. Did you actually read through the thread? Pretty much every poster in this thread who is voting for Obama lists policy reasons first and foremost.

[Shastafarian]

Bullshit. Did you actually read through the thread? Pretty much every poster in this thread who is voting for Obama lists policy reasons first and foremost.

Don't interrupt their circle jerk. It's fun watching these guys crumble at the real possibility of Obama winning.

[Bartleby]

Can't wait for my 401k to drop since more people pull out of the stock market now that the capital gains tax is going up.

Yeah, the Dow took a real beating today. Wall Street must be terrified of an Obama presidency.

[Duff McCartney]

I'm voting for Obama because I believe in the change he can bring us.

I would have never voted for a Republican because I'm a minority. I'm a broke ass college student with debt up the wazoo from college. The last thing I want to vote for is a political party that supports big business and less government intervention.

I refuse to ever vote for a party that has allowed itself to be hijacked by the Christian right. I refuse to vote for a party that has divided this country to the greatest degree and has spit out lies after lies to the idiots in the country and have been able to rally these moronic gun-toting bible-clinging idiots to get them elected.

The Republican party is garbage. Period. Nothing will ever change the fact that I will never vote for them.

On a side note there are also many points I disagree with Obama. One of my most important ones is his (and every politicians) unwavering support of Israel. Fuck Israel. I don't want to hear about another instance of them being our strongest ally in the region. The reason they are is because you have about 100 PACs donating to politicians funds in order for them to send half of our foreign aid to Israel.

[possessed]

I voted for Obama for a few different reasons.

-Reason one is in protest to the shitty campaign that John McCain ran. I'm pissed off. Obama ran a much better campaign. If you can't run a decent fuckin' campaign, how are you going to run the Country?

-I have had three relatives that were of the Democratic persuasion die of cancer in the last two years. My grandfather and an aunt and uncle (yes, the two were a couple, they both passed away less than two years apart from one another). They would have relished the opportunity to vote for Obama. Part of my vote was cast for them, out of respect to them and in their memory.

That was the first time I've ever voted Democrat. I voted for another Democrat in a local election. Steve Caires, who is running for county commissioner. He was my 7th grade English teacher and my family knows his family well, we've known him for years. His wife was a school teacher and was a murder victim of the Barry Loukiatis school shooting that happened in Moses Lake, Washington back in 1996.

[implacable44]

I'm voting for Obama because I believe in the change he can bring us.

I would have never voted for a Republican because I'm a minority. I'm a broke ass college student with debt up the wazoo from college. The last thing I want to vote for is a political party that supports big business and less government intervention.

I refuse to ever vote for a party that has allowed itself to be hijacked by the Christian right. I refuse to vote for a party that has divided this country to the greatest degree and has spit out lies after lies to the idiots in the country and have been able to rally these moronic gun-toting bible-clinging idiots to get them elected.

The Republican party is garbage. Period. Nothing will ever change the fact that I will never vote for them.

On a side note there are also many points I disagree with Obama. One of my most important ones is his (and every politicians) unwavering support of Israel. Fuck Israel. I don't want to hear about another instance of them being our strongest ally in the region. The reason they are is because you have about 100 PACs donating to politicians funds in order for them to send half of our foreign aid to Israel.


Wow - strong hate for Israel .. does that apply to every nation or are there certain nations you feel we should be supporting ? Palestine ?

Did you see who contributed the most to the Obama campaign ? Lots of big businesses on there.. well if you want big government then you voted the right way...

Both parties have been hijacked - you are silly and ignorant to think otherwise.

[clambake]

Reading this thread is very scary.
People will be saying "what the hell have we done?" And then I'll laugh!

clutching that bible makes it hard to concentrate.

[ChumpDumper]

Reading this thread is very scary. So many of you say you don't think Obama is really experienced enough and you don't agree with his economic policies, yet you're still voting for him because he speaks well and looks and sounds intelligent - oh, and you HOPE he isn't really being truthful about what his plans are for this country.

I just shake my head. How sad for our country that so many people believe and think this way. I have a feeling if Obama does win, that next year at this time there will be a LOT of buyer's remorse. People will be saying "what the hell have we done?" And then I'll laugh!
I think at worst, his first two years will be like Clinton's if Obama didn't learn anything from him. I'm just not that worried.

If McCain loses, it's because he never gave anyone a positive reason to vote for him. Your rehashed fear mongering is proof enough of that.

[Duff McCartney]

Wow - strong hate for Israel .. does that apply to every nation or are there certain nations you feel we should be supporting ? Palestine ?

Did you see who contributed the most to the Obama campaign ? Lots of big businesses on there.. well if you want big government then you voted the right way...

Both parties have been hijacked - you are silly and ignorant to think otherwise.

I think we should be looking for a peaceful solution to the conflict in Israel/Palestine but for me the fact is that Israel was just created out of arbitrary lines. I think people and Israel itself has made itself to seem like it's just an innocent bystander and all the Palestinians are attacking them mercilessly and it's our duty as Americans to help them.

I do want big government because only a government can keep businesses in line. Only a big government can keep medical companies in line. "Let the market sort itself out" is bullshit plain and simple. With big business it's always about money money money and that's the bottom line...only government can make rules and regulations that businesses have to abide by. If they didn't make them...it's naive to think that any business would try on its own free will to not try to find the bottom line.

You're right both sides have been hijacked. The Democrats by crazy/cowardly democrats who are either too scared to stand up for something lest they be called unpatriotic and the other psychos who spend all day bashing Bush. I'm not forgiving Bush by no means. I think he might one of the worst Presidents we've ever had. But the Democrats that do nothing but bash him when they get a mic put under them aren't helping. Bash him with your actions not with your stupid rhetoric.

[ElNono]

Reading this thread is very scary. So many of you say you don't think Obama is really experienced enough and you don't agree with his economic policies, yet you're still voting for him because he speaks well and looks and sounds intelligent - oh, and you HOPE he isn't really being truthful about what his plans are for this country.


If this is what you get out of this thread, then you either didn't read it or you read it with your pink colored glasses. Try again.

[gameFACE]

I voted for Obama.

I like his economic plan and believe he is much better for education than any republican candidate could ever be. The debates convinced me even more that he has good strength and composure. No he doesn't have years and years of experience but the current president was the governor of this state and look where that experience got him. Worst president ever.

I also think Obama will be better in dealing with foreign policy. A better diplomat. McCain may have more experience and knowledge but he's an awful diplomat.

I like that Obama was against the war at a time when it wasn't popular to do so.

McCain made some realy bad decisions. Palin and then his general erratic behavior during the bail out. Dude has a short fuse.